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Which herald pulls a majority against...

THE WORTHY

http://www.craveonline.com/images/stories/2011/comics/fearitself/fearitselftheworthy658.jpg

1.Blue Marvel
2.Captain Marvel
3.Hulk-Doc Green or starts at WWH
4.Hyperion
5.Majestic-Classic or DCNU
6.DCNU Martian Manhunter
7.Silver Surfer
8.DCNU Superman
9.Thor(Odinson)
10.DCNU Wonder Woman

One against all?

If it's one of your chosen champions none of them even come close. Doc Green is not on the same level as WW Hulk either. Your opinion of the Worthy must be pretty low if you think that any of those cats would defeat Worthy Juggernaut alone.

Originally posted by Stoic
If it's one of your chosen champions none of them even come close. Doc Green is not on the same level as WW Hulk either. Your opinion of the Worthy must be pretty low if you think that any of those cats would defeat Worthy Juggernaut alone.

Give the odds.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Give the odds.

They would all be slaughtered if you sent them in one at a time. You would need all of your champions in order for this to be remotely a good fight. Worthy Hulk tore through an Adamantium net like it was tissue paper. Which one of your champions flesh is stronger than Adamantium? Worthy Juggernaut was likely more powerful than he was during the 7th and 8th day. He was powered up by Cytorrak, and the Serpent combined. Those two alone would be hellish for the entire Herald squad to take on, and defeat. It was a shit story, I know this, but the implied power that they all walked around with, was considerable. They have zero chance of taking them on in one against the mob fashion.

Not even a fight.

Not to mention Greithoth could recall things he had touched in the past.

The worthy rofl stomp any herald.

Originally posted by carver9
Not even a fight.

A weakened Thor was able to take down 2 of The Worthy.

You might want to read that story, before embarrassing yourself further

Thing was reverted by Franklin and Hulk was just knocked into orbit. Also, if by "weakened" you mean super pissed, yeah Thor was "weakened."

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
A weakened Thor was able to take down 2 of The Worthy.

Thor pounded on Nul to no affect. He had to resort to bfring him. Then you have to look at the ft of this character. He ripped a Mjlonir type weapon to pieces with ease and ripped through amped Adamantium with a wave of his hand. That's just one of them. Akuma took on Surfer and a gang of other characters and held his own. Kuurth took on the entire mutant population and stomped. Read the books please.

Thor also had legitimate plot armor given to him in the story (literally) as he was destine to kill the Serpent.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
You might want to read that story, before embarrassing yourself further

Thing was reverted by Franklin and Hulk was just knocked into orbit. Also, if by "weakened" you mean super pissed, yeah Thor was "weakened."

Exactly.
Maybe Thor was ''holding back''. LOL.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
A weakened Thor was able to take down 2 of The Worthy.

Did you even read or read it upside down?

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
You might want to read that story, before embarrassing yourself further

Thing was reverted by Franklin and Hulk was just knocked into orbit. Also, if by "weakened" you mean super pissed, yeah Thor was "weakened."
Didn't Franklin heal Worthy Thing after Thor maimed him? The reverting happened as Franklin tried to save Thing from death.

I don't know if Thor was weakened but wasn't he suffering from the gut wound he got at the World Tree?

Thor was nowhere near his best yet he still beat two of the most powerful Worthy.

Originally posted by zopzop
Didn't Franklin heal Worthy Thing after Thor maimed him? The reverting happened as Franklin tried to save Thing from death.

I don't know if Thor was weakened but wasn't he suffering from the gut wound he got at the World Tree?

Thor was nowhere near his best yet he still beat two of the most powerful Worthy.

One of them (Worthy Hulk) was BFR'd, and when he landed, he was fine. Thor then passed out. So what would have happened if let's say the Grand Master placed them all in an arena that allowed Worthy Hulk to simply jump back? What would have happened then? Didn't Worthy Thing nearly kill Rulk? Why attempt to make it out like he was completely useless? Have you forgotten that every single one of those Herald's that are supposed to take on the entire Worthy crew, have all had several low showings, barring Blue Marvel?

Not to mention that the entire story sucked nearly as bad as Chaos Wars. Why and how in the hell did Thor even manage to BFR Worthy Hulk when he could have simply flew back? PIS was really thick in that story, because if it was Image, Nul would have gone right back, and beat the hell out of Thor's KO'd behind. Instead, he conveniently lands in Vampire-Ville. SMH.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
You might want to read that story, before embarrassing yourself further

Thing was reverted by Franklin and Hulk was just knocked into orbit. Also, if by "weakened" you mean super pissed, yeah Thor was "weakened."

Originally posted by carver9
Thor pounded on Nul to no affect. He had to resort to bfring him. Then you have to look at the ft of this character. He ripped a Mjlonir type weapon to pieces with ease and ripped through amped Adamantium with a wave of his hand. That's just one of them. Akuma took on Surfer and a gang of other characters and held his own. Kuurth took on the entire mutant population and stomped. Read the books please.

Originally posted by Kryptoniano
Exactly.
Maybe Thor was ''holding back''. LOL.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Did you even read or read it upside down?

I love it when you fools gather in one place to attack me. It makes it so much easier to embarass you.

You're questioning whether I READ the story when you can't even get the events correct.

When Mjolnir put a hole in Worthy Thing it was only then that Franklin took action to save him.

Thor was clearly wounded when he took on Angrir and Nul.

Of course the imbecile, Time, had to be the one to double down on Pym's stupidity.

EDIT

https://36.media.tumblr.com/ce084fcf7446bb37eb0d8e738995e053/tumblr_n4aasznkzh1sjxvs8o3_400.jpg

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
I love it when you fools gather in one place to attack me. It makes it so much easier to embarass you.

You're questioning whether I READ the story when you can't even get the events correct.

When Mjolnir put a hole in Worthy Thing it was only then that Franklin took action to save him.

Thor was clearly wounded when he took on Angrir and Nul.

Of course the imbecile, Time, had to be the one to double down on Pym's stupidity. ...reading comprehension much?

I never said Thor didn't hurt Thing, but Hulk was shown to be fine

Also Thor had both literal (his father's) and figurative (the prophecy) plot armor during that story. You trying to argue any herald could replicate that is insane and dumb.

If you're going to insult me, atleast build a stronger straw man.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
I love it when you fools gather in one place to attack me. It makes it so much easier to embarass you.

You're questioning whether I READ the story when you can't even get the events correct.

When Mjolnir put a hole in Worthy Thing it was only then that Franklin took action to save him.

Thor was clearly wounded when he took on Angrir and Nul.

Of course the imbecile, Time, had to be the one to double down on Pym's stupidity.

Worst post ever.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
I love it when you fools gather in one place to attack me. It makes it so much easier to embarass you.

You're questioning whether I READ the story when you can't even get the events correct.

When Mjolnir put a hole in Worthy Thing it was only then that Franklin took action to save him.

Thor was clearly wounded when he took on Angrir and Nul.

Of course the imbecile, Time, had to be the one to double down on Pym's stupidity.

If you read you wouldn't have erected this turd of a poll.

... What are you guys going on about? LoB is right. Thor killed Angrir, and Franklin saved him. And Thor was severely wounded from the World Tree, which is why he passed out. Odin confirms this.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
... What are you guys going on about? LoB is right. Thor killed Angrir, and Franklin saved him. And Thor was severely wounded from the World Tree, which is why he passed out. Odin confirms this.

So he didn't pass out because of Hulk? Please provide proof of this? Lol...he fought Surfer with the same wound and didn't come close to passing out. Hell, it appeared as if he had the edge during that fight. The wound caused him pain but it didn't hinder his fighting ability. Not too long ago he fought without hesitation a Herald while having his liver turned to glass and crumbled. He fought some abstracts with one of his arms being torn off. Fought Gorr while having his insides chewed up. Never showed a sign of weakness.

This is spite,and thor cheapshotted worthy thing if am not mistaken

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
I love it when you fools gather in one place to attack me. It makes it so much easier to embarass you.

You're questioning whether I READ the story when you can't even get the events correct.

When Mjolnir put a hole in Worthy Thing it was only then that Franklin took action to save him.

Thor was clearly wounded when he took on Angrir and Nul.

Of course the imbecile, Time, had to be the one to double down on Pym's stupidity.

Oh man you mad. If I thought you were correct I would have agreed with you.

And if you want to embarrass us, learn to spell its "embarrass" not "embarass."

Chomper

So I just want to weigh in on this. Yes Thor basically killed Angrir and Franklin brought him back. That fight was also a fully going out Thor and he managed to BFR and temporarily KO Nul. After which Thor collapsed from exhaustion and the wound.

That is what happened. Take it what you will but don't try to distort things. Angrir beat up Rulk but he also seemed to be one of the weaker Worthy in the story as well. And going all out Thor can definitely put a hurting on people even above his pay grade.

Anyway the main point is that none of the people on this list are beating the Worthy together. Most would be hard pressed to find ways to win against the tougher Worthy solo.

Originally posted by carver9
So he didn't pass out because of Hulk? Please provide proof of this? Lol...he fought Surfer with the same wound and didn't come close to passing out. Hell, it appeared as if he had the edge during that fight. The wound caused him pain but it didn't hinder his fighting ability. Not too long ago he fought without hesitation a Herald while having his liver turned to glass and crumbled. He fought some abstracts with one of his arms being torn off. Fought Gorr while having his insides chewed up. Never showed a sign of weakness.

I feels ya. Different writers though, Aaron writes Thor with a strong HF Fraction didn't. Plus, it wasn't a typical wound, it was a localized tear in space time, like I said Odin confirms Thor's status when he tries to heal him in the next issue. I don't know why you would think it was Nul. IIRC, he only hits Thor like once or twice, and he's fine after they hit the ground.

Originally posted by Newjak
So I just want to weigh in on this. Yes Thor basically killed Angrir and Franklin brought him back. That fight was also a fully going out Thor and he managed to BFR and temporarily KO Nul. After which Thor collapsed from exhaustion and the wound.

That is what happened. Take it what you will but don't try to distort things. Angrir beat up Rulk but he also seemed to be one of the weaker Worthy in the story as well. And going all out Thor can definitely put a hurting on people even above his pay grade.

Anyway the main point is that none of the people on this list are beating the Worthy together. Most would be hard pressed to find ways to win against the tougher Worthy solo.

Exactly.

The one person I feel has the best chance is Cap Marvel (Billy). And only because of his magic. He'd have to pull something pretty OOC though.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
I feels ya. Different writers though, Aaron writes Thor with a strong HF Fraction didn't. Plus, it wasn't a typical wound, it was a localized tear in space time, like I said Odin confirms Thor's status when he tries to heal him in the next issue. I don't know why you would think it was Nul. IIRC, he only hits Thor like once or twice, and he's fine after they hit the ground.

Because after Nul and Thor charged each other, that's when Thor passed out. Not before and not after. It's different writers but it still give us an indication on how Thor handle things.

Originally posted by Newjak
So I just want to weigh in on this. Yes Thor basically killed Angrir and Franklin brought him back. That fight was also a fully going out Thor and he managed to BFR and temporarily KO Nul. After which Thor collapsed from exhaustion and the wound.

That is what happened. Take it what you will but don't try to distort things. Angrir beat up Rulk but he also seemed to be one of the weaker Worthy in the story as well. And going all out Thor can definitely put a hurting on people even above his pay grade.

Anyway the main point is that none of the people on this list are beating the Worthy together. Most would be hard pressed to find ways to win against the tougher Worthy solo.

Thor didn't ko Nul. Not proof at all on this. The guy wrecked an amped army right after fighting Thor whereas Thor was carried to the nurse. His dad...for healing.

All out Thor couldn't even manage to knock Nul off of his ft and fatigued himself trying.

Originally posted by Stoic
Didn't Worthy Thing nearly kill Rulk? Why attempt to make it out like he was completely useless?
a) Rulk jobs............a lot
b) Rulk wasn't using his energy absorption powers and they could have made a difference (outright stated on panel)


I'm not saying the story wasn't a PoS PISfest, it was. But we know for a fact that : a) Thor wtf pwned Worthy Thing
b) Thor wasn't anywhere near 100% because of the gut wound

So who knows how a PISless match between Nul/THor would have gone down if Thor wasn't wounded.

Originally posted by carver9
Thor didn't ko Nul. Not proof at all on this. The guy wrecked an amped army right after fighting Thor whereas Thor was carried to the nurse. His dad...for healing.

All out Thor couldn't even manage to knock Nul off of his ft and fatigued himself trying. We see Nul knocked into space and he floats around for a little bit. Then we see him grab his hammer as he falls back to Earth.

With BFR and a knowledge of the opponents.
1.Blue Marvel - 1/10
2.Captain Marvel - 1/10
3.Hulk-Doc Green or starts at WWH or WB for that matter- 0/10
4.Hyperion - 1/10
5.Majestic-Classic or DCNU - 2/10
6.DCNU Martian Manhunter 3-/10
7.Silver Surfer - 2/10
8.DCNU Superman - 2/10
9.Thor(Odinson) - 2/10
10.DCNU Wonder Woman 2/10

Originally posted by Newjak
We see Nul knocked into space and he floats around for a little bit. Then we see him grab his hammer as he falls back to Earth.

We see speech bubbles and him floating in space. Not an indication of someone being knocked out. You're guessing.

Originally posted by Stoic
They would all be slaughtered if you sent them in one at a time. You would need all of your champions in order for this to be remotely a good fight.

NO.

I can pick a trinity of the heroes available to overcome The Worthy with ease.

None of them even come close to getting a win

Originally posted by Newjak
We see Nul knocked into space and he floats around for a little bit. Then we see him grab his hammer as he falls back to Earth.

You're right. He should've flew around in space instead of floating. Do you have scans of him flying?

Lol at people bringing up Thors plot armor but when the shoes on the other foot....hilarious

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
NO.

I can pick a trinity of the heroes available to overcome The Worthy with ease.

Nah u lyin

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Lol at people bringing up Thors plot armor but when the shoes on the other foot....hilarious me? Thor got Odin armor literally

&

Had the prophecy that (somehow) allowed him to kill a skyfather that would have killed Odin

Originally posted by carver9
Thor didn't ko Nul. Not proof at all on this. The guy wrecked an amped army right after fighting Thor whereas Thor was carried to the nurse. His dad...for healing.

All out Thor couldn't even manage to knock Nul off of his ft and fatigued himself trying.
Got ko'd.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
NO.

I can pick a trinity of the heroes available to overcome The Worthy with ease.

You must think that everyone here are soft headed morons huh? Nul ripped through Adamantium like it was tissue paper. If he grabbed any one of your champions with the intention of doing harm to them, he would tear their limbs off with ease. Not sure if you realize the kind of damage Adamantium actually mitigates in comics?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Got ko'd.

Nul was floated, he wasn't KO'd. He was talking in outer space, he then lands and we see that he is just fine. Even if Thor managed to flash KO him, he would have shown signs of grogginess, this was not shown when he landed.

Thor did ok 2v1

This is 8v1...

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Thor did ok 2v1

This is 8v1...

Let's move the goal posts a little. What would have happened if Thor fought Worthy Hulk, and Worthy Juggernaut at the same time and they actually used their hammers?

Originally posted by Stoic

Nul was floated, he wasn't KO'd. He was talking in outer space, he then lands and we see that he is just fine. Even if Thor managed to flash KO him, he would have shown signs of grogginess, this was not shown when he landed.
Body was in a laid out position, empty speech bubble, and eyes seemingly closed.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Body was in a laid out position, empty speech bubble, and eyes seemingly closed.

He was flying through space. What position was he supposed to be in if he was just hit into space? If he was KO'd he wouldn't have been talking, or trying to talk. Because he was in space or more likely the upper atmosphere, he probably couldn't speak very loudly. The writer likely wanted to show the effects that a vacuum would have on someone's speech. If he was KO'd he would have been groggy when he landed, because it didn't take him long to land. We never saw anything like that. Thor won via BFR, but there was no KO. If there was a forcefield surrounding the battlefield, and that was Thor's best an final shot, Nul would have or could have gone back and beat the hell out of Thor when he passed out.

How does it even make sense to you, or anyone that a regular Hulk has the ability to break even with Thor, with Thor going all out, but an extremely amped Hulk would have trouble with him? Thor has limits, he doesn't just keep growing stronger to match any given opponent. I'm not going to take anything away from him, because it was a good showing for him, but to call that a KO would be an exaggeration. I'm looking at this as unbiased as possible, and from what i saw, no evidence supports the hit as being a KO. I have argued against the Hulk, and will again. I've also argued for Thor, but I can't give him something that wasn't there. Blue Marvel flash KO'd Sentry. That scene was clearly different from the Thor vs Nul battle. It's like claiming that Skaar KO'd the Juggernaut. He only floated him.

Originally posted by carver9
You're right. He should've flew around in space instead of floating. Do you have scans of him flying?

http://comicsbulletin.com/main/sites/default/files/mondo/images/0906/Hulk003%20Flying.jpg

Just looked at it again. Looks ko'd. Thor laid him out. Woke up in reentry.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Just looked at it again. Looks ko'd. Thor laid him out. Woke up in reentry.

I'd agree if he wasn't talking. Since sound does not carry in space, it makes sense that no words could be seen in the speech bubble. For all we know, Nul could have said lucky bastard. So again, if he was KO'd there would have been no speech bubble. This is solid enough evidence to prove that he was not KO'd. When coupled with the fact that when he landed that he wasn't groggy in the least, the evidence really leans to him not having been KO'd in the least. It was a good showing for a wounded Thor, but the only character that he scored heavily on was Worthy Thing. Nul was just fine.

Tbh, this debate has been rehashed so many times - I doubt either side are going to convince the other....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Tbh, this debate has been rehashed so many times - I doubt either side are going to convince the other....

Well one side makes sense while the other side is reaching. The speech bubble makes it clear that Nul was not KO'd. If there was none then I would agree 100% and say that the evidence clearly shows that Nul was more than likely flash KO'd This is not what is portrayed however. That one speech bubble is something that can not be explained away. Space does not carry sound, and this is why we see an empty speech bubble. It's not difficult to realize, or to judge it for what it was, and/or wasn't.

The worthy stomp

Originally posted by Stoic
Well one side makes sense while the other side is reaching.

And I am 100% sure both sides think this, lol.

But, a debate for another time. Worthy slaughter here. Lol at LoB's 3 heralds who can take em on.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Body was in a laid out position, empty speech bubble, and eyes seemingly closed.

How should his body have been in space floating around? Never seen anyone with speech bubbles whole koed.

Originally posted by carver9
How should his body have been in space floating around? Never seen anyone with speech bubbles whole koed.
Speech bubbles with dots (known as a an ellipsis) are sometimes to used to convey stunned silence. As a manga reader, you should know this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech_balloon

Here is another source:

http://www.blambot.com/grammar.shtml

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Speech bubbles with dots (known as a an ellipsis) are sometimes to used to convey stunned silence. As a manga reader, you should know this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech_balloon

Here is another source:

http://www.blambot.com/grammar.shtml

Ok, I'm trying not to make anyone look foolish but that wasn't the only time blank speech bubbles was shown during fear itself. The Serpent did it more than once while walking around. Just stop. And stunned is different than a ko.

Originally posted by carver9
Ok, I'm trying not to make anyone look foolish but that wasn't the only time blank speech bubbles was shown during fear itself. The Serpent did it more than once while walking around. Just stop. And stunned is different than a ko.

Yes, and others have used it before whilst walking around. 100% agree.

The point I was trying to make is, the existence of speech bubbles with ellipses is inconclusive. Either side can use it as proof that Hulk was/wasn't KOed. Especially given its usage with characters who are stunned senseless.

IOW, stop using it as proof, because an argument can be made as well that it shows he was KOed.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes, and others have used it before whilst walking around. 100% agree.

The point I was trying to make is, the existence of speech bubbles with ellipses is inconclusive. Either side can use it as proof that Hulk was/wasn't KOed. Especially given its usage with characters who are stunned senseless.

IOW, stop using it as proof, because an argument can be made as well that it shows he was KOed.

He was 100% when he hit earth. Not a sign of fatigue, nothing. Everything goes against him being koed but to each his own.

Lob was T'd out last page and it appears Carver has been T'd as well.

Originally posted by carver9
He was 100% when he hit earth. Not a sign of fatigue, nothing. Everything goes against him being koed but to each his own.

I've seen many examples of the Hulk's incredible HF. Being 100% and ready for another fight does not prove he was NOT KOed.

If you want, I can post examples of Hulk's HF? If you haven't seen them before :-p

how this thread is still open.....

Originally posted by leonidas
how this thread is still open..... It really shouldn't be none of those heralds are beating all of the Worthy together.

Originally posted by leonidas
how this thread is still open.....

Its down to a Carver vs Hulk thread again, thats why

Fear Itself was a big disappointment story-wise.

Still, none of the heralds listed should be able to solo The Worthy.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
me? Thor got Odin armor literally

&

Had the prophecy that (somehow) allowed him to kill a skyfather that would have killed Odin

Not u

Originally posted by carver9
How should his body have been in space floating around? Never seen anyone with speech bubbles whole koed.
Not look laid out and only show signs of being roused during reentry.

http://oi46.tinypic.com/29ekphy.jpg

So him having speech bubbles in one panel and screaming in the next is him knocked out? Makes sense.

First bubble is blank 'cause nobody can hear you in space.

Originally posted by carver9
So him having speech bubbles in one panel and screaming in the next is him knocked out? Makes sense.


No. What part of rousing during reentry did you not understand?

Pretty cut and dry just by looking at the art.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
First bubble is blank 'cause nobody can hear you in space.
Wait now you're saying through body language and facial expression he is speaking normally?

Come on even you don't believe that.

If Hulkie boy was truly ko'd, then why he's still holding the hammer?

http://i59.tinypic.com/4sfc5y.jpg

http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqy08i5GTb1qjw1rjo1_1280.jpg

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
No. What part of rousing during reentry did you not understand?

Pretty cut and dry just by looking at the art.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
If Hulkie boy was truly ko'd, then why he's still holding the hammer?

His body is locked in a spasm after being KO'd.

Go look at the Vonda Ward KO for a demonstration.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
No. What part of rousing during reentry did you not understand?

Pretty cut and dry just by looking at the art.

Hulk doesn't even feel reentry. If he was koed, the last thing that would wake him is reentry.

It's not cut and dry. Too much goes against it tbh. Speech bubbles and him saying words in the next panel. Holding his hammer. You honestly don't have anything. Nothing.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
First bubble is blank 'cause nobody can hear you in space.



Plus, fear itself had a lot of blank speech bubbles during obvious moments when someone is awake.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Not look laid out and only show signs of being roused during reentry.

http://oi46.tinypic.com/29ekphy.jpg Hulk is looking up in the first frame, you don't look around while Ko'd

Or have speech bubbles.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
If Hulkie boy was truly ko'd, then why he's still holding the hammer?
You can be ko'd and still hold on to shiet.

yeah, not seeing how he appears ko'd in that first panel....the empty speech bubble simply represents the fact that his speech can't be heard in space. as he begins to re-enter the atmosphere the speech appears in the bubble.

i've never understood how people say he was ko'd. :/

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, not seeing how he appears ko'd in that first panel....the empty speech bubble simply represents the fact that his speech can't be heard in space. as he begins to re-enter the atmosphere the speech appears in the bubble.

i've never understood how people say he was ko'd. :/



He isn't koed. Only Thor fans think he is koed. Too much goes against it.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
You can be ko'd and still hold on to shiet.

So he's holding on to something, looking up, have speech bubbles, and talking the next panel and he is still koed? Lol.

Originally posted by leonidas
i've never understood how people say he was ko'd. :/

Typical Thor fanboyism, seen every single day on KMC.

i guess. it just....really seems utterly inarguable to me. shrug

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Typical Thor fanboyism, seen every single day on KMC.

Indeed. It is worse than the ''thor was holding back''excuse.LOL.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Typical Thor fanboyism, seen every single day on KMC. Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, not seeing how he appears ko'd in that first panel....the empty speech bubble simply represents the fact that his speech can't be heard in space. as he begins to re-enter the atmosphere the speech appears in the bubble.

i've never understood how people say he was ko'd. :/

Originally posted by carver9
So he's holding on to something, looking up, have speech bubbles, and talking the next panel and he is still koed? Lol.
Wait.. Empty speech bubbles means he can't be heard in space? Ah ok.. Puzzling since characters talk in space all the time. Tropes and all... And this guy is empowered by Asgardian "magic".. We all know it affords you to do many stupid things like talk in space. And no I'm not going to pull out Thor scans just to prove it. Not even ones that references "magic" as the reason he can do such things. Just take my word for it. But let's say he was speaking in the first panel.
Now look at his body language. Look at his facial expression. Now compare that to the other panel where he looks scared all of a sudden, possibly startled now that he's hurtling down towards terra firma. One moment he's relaxed talking to himself, the next he's screaming in bold letters? Does not mix.

Let's not forget just because this is depicted in one page, doesn't mean the time it took for him to get punted into space, then seem to drift aimlessly, and finally hurtle back down happened in short period of time.

Oh and Stilt, "typical fanboyism"? Of course I'd argue for the knock out genius. But am I coming in here with completely nonsensical reasons? Am I saying he's knocked out with both eyes wide open and completely filled speech bubbles from start to finish? Get the phukk outta here with that.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Not look laid out and only show signs of being roused during reentry.

http://oi46.tinypic.com/29ekphy.jpg

Bro Nul wasn't KO'd, he wasn't even fazed. The reason why nothing was in the speech bubble was because sound can not travel in space (you know this). He then re-enters the atmosphere, and he once again becomes audible. There was no KO, just a victory for Thor through BFR. Nul was incredibly powerful. Much more powerful than a High herald.

Knocking Nul out is beyond Thor's ability. It's some wishful thinking by Thor fan. And yeah non of these heralds have chance....unless it's it's the MU-recreating Silver Surfer...dun-dun-dun!!!

I love how years later the same argument is still raging.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Wait.. Empty speech bubbles means he can't be heard in space? Ah ok.. Puzzling since characters talk in space all the time. Tropes and all... And this guy is empowered by Asgardian "magic".. We all know it affords you to do many stupid things like talk in space. And no I'm not going to pull out Thor scans just to prove it. Not even ones that references "magic" as the reason he can do such things. Just take my word for it. But let's say he was speaking in the first panel.
Now look at his body language. Look at his facial expression. Now compare that to the other panel where he looks scared all of a sudden, possibly startled now that he's hurtling down towards terra firma. One moment he's relaxed talking to himself, the next he's screaming in bold letters? Does not mix.

Let's not forget just because this is depicted in one page, doesn't mean the time it took for him to get punted into space, then seem to drift aimlessly, and finally hurtle back down happened in short period of time.

Oh and Stilt, "typical fanboyism"? Of course I'd argue for the knock out genius. But am I coming in here with completely nonsensical reasons? Am I saying he's knocked out with both eyes wide open and completely filled speech bubbles from start to finish? Get the phukk outta here with that.

Thor and Hercules have the ability to speak in space because they are enchanted beings. Other characters are cosmic, The Hulk is neither. Cain could speak in space as well, but that's because he is also enchanted. Nul and the other Worthy were just possessed mortals given more power, but their mortal bodies were still only hosts to the demons or beings that dwelt within them. We see this as Cain is taken over, and his personality is pushed back, and shackled by the entity possessing him.

Originally posted by Stoic
Thor and Hercules have the ability to speak in space because they are enchanted beings. Other characters are cosmic, The Hulk is neither. Cain could speak in space as well, but that's because he is also enchanted. Nul and the other Worthy were just possessed mortals given more power, but their mortal bodies were still only hosts to the demons or beings that dwelt within them. We see this as Cain is taken over, and his personality is pushed back, and shackled by the entity possessing him.
Wtf?

This does not make sense.

Anyways was punted in the stratosphere. Last time I checked sound travels in the stratosphere unusually fast. Nul can still make sounds where he was punted and not only at the point the heat from reentry was upon him. Simple really.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Wait.. Empty speech bubbles means he can't be heard in space? Ah ok.. Puzzling since characters talk in space all the time. Tropes and all... And this guy is empowered by Asgardian "magic".. We all know it affords you to do many stupid things like talk in space. And no I'm not going to pull out Thor scans just to prove it. Not even ones that references "magic" as the reason he can do such things. Just take my word for it. But let's say he was speaking in the first panel.
Now look at his body language. Look at his facial expression. Now compare that to the other panel where he looks scared all of a sudden, possibly startled now that he's hurtling down towards terra firma. One moment he's relaxed talking to himself, the next he's screaming in bold letters? Does not mix.

Let's not forget just because this is depicted in one page, doesn't mean the time it took for him to get punted into space, then seem to drift aimlessly, and finally hurtle back down happened in short period of time.

Oh and Stilt, "typical fanboyism"? Of course I'd argue for the knock out genius. But am I coming in here with completely nonsensical reasons? Am I saying he's knocked out with both eyes wide open and completely filled speech bubbles from start to finish? Get the phukk outta here with that.

So he was koed in one panel and all of a sudden woke up immediately in the next? Doesn't add up, at all. Believe what you want to believe but when I see speech bubbles, someone gripping a hammer and someone talking clearly in the next panel, I'm not going to suggest he was koed. Overall, you're trying to hard.

Originally posted by carver9
So he was koed in one panel and all of a sudden woke up immediately in the next? Doesn't add up, at all. Believe what you want to believe but when I see speech bubbles, someone gripping a hammer and someone talking clearly in the next panel, I'm not going to suggest he was koed. Overall, you're trying to hard.
Brah a little common sense is needed here. Panel to panel does not always mean second to second or moment to moment.

For one he got punted to the stratosphere which implies some travel. No better yet involves travel. Travel means time took place. He got punted, but obviously w/o the proper escape velocity to break off from the earth's gravity since we know he was pulled back by it. Which means he was going pretty fast, but not incredibly so.

The first panel shows him clearly drifting calmly which implies he is still probably at the point where the energy produced to punt him is gone and the energy involved in his descent will begin soon. The next panel has him hurtling at such a speed that the heat of reentry is clearly depicted. Whole scene implies time passing. Not significant like hours or days passing, but enough to let readers know that he didn't teleport on his way to the stratosphere and then a second later hurtle back down to earth. Common phukkun sense. Forgive me for being blunt.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Wtf?

This does not make sense.

Anyways was punted in the stratosphere. Last time I checked sound travels in the stratosphere unusually fast. Nul can still make sounds where he was punted and not only at the point the heat from reentry was upon him. Simple really.

He was obviously above the Stratosphere, because he was talking but was inaudible. He then becomes audible in the next panel. This is something that you definitely understand. Nul was not injured in the attack. He certainly wasn't KO'd. He was talking for crying out loud, he was gripping his hammer in a very controlled manner, he hits the ground without any sign of grogginess, gets up, and goes postal in Vampire-Ville. The evidence of Nul not being even slightly affected by the attack has a hell of a lot more evidence attached to it than Thor having in fact KO'd him. Nul was above that class. It happens no biggie, there are guys out there that are a good deal more powerful than Thor, but were still beaten by him. Nul was one of those guys.

When Thor hits Nul, the Hammer is dislodged from Nul's hand, and Nul attempts to retrieve the Hammer. we see him fly out into space, and he has possession of the hammer. So when was Nul rendered unconscious? It never happened.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Brah a little common sense is needed here. Panel to panel does not always mean second to second or moment to moment.

For one he got punted to the stratosphere which implies some travel. No better yet involves travel. Travel means time took place. He got punted, but obviously w/o the proper escape velocity to break off from the earth's gravity since we know he was pulled back by it. Which means he was going pretty fast, but not incredibly so.

The first panel shows him clearly drifting calmly which implies he is still probably at the point where the energy produced to punt him is gone and the energy involved in his descent will begin soon. The next panel has him hurtling at such a speed that the heat of reentry is clearly depicted. Whole scene implies time passing. Not significant like hours or days passing, but enough to let readers know that he didn't teleport on his way to the stratosphere and then a second later hurtle back down to earth. Common phukkun sense. Forgive me for being blunt.



Nothing implies he was koed. Nothing. Nadda.

I like how in the very next panel when he is entering atmosphere, his speech bubble is filled.

Originally posted by Stoic
He was obviously above the Stratosphere, because he was talking but was inaudible. He then becomes audible in the next panel. This is something that you definitely understand. Nul was not injured in the attack. He certainly wasn't KO'd. He was talking for crying out loud, he was gripping his hammer in a very controlled manner, he hits the ground without any sign of grogginess, gets up, and goes postal in Vampire-Ville. The evidence of Nul not being even slightly affected by the attack has a hell of a lot more evidence attached to it than Thor having in fact KO'd him. Nul was above that class. It happens no biggie, there are guys out there that are a good deal more powerful than Thor, but were still beaten by him. Nul was one of those guys.
Fear Itself #6 and the tie-ins with Hulk vs Dracula both stated that Nul was punted into the stratosphere and not beyond earth's atmosphere.

Regardless of whether Nul was koed or not ,the justification of the empty speech bubbles in space is foolish. Comics have always had characters talk in the vacuum of space when it shold he impossible. No offense but an empty speech bubble in space isn't evidence of anything in a comic setting.

On another note Nul may not have been koed but he was definitely laid out in that scene.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I like how in the very next panel when he is entering atmosphere, his speech bubble is filled.



Thorbags are blind to that.

Originally posted by Newjak
Regardless of whether Nul was koed or not ,the justification of the empty speech bubbles in space is foolish. Comics have always had characters talk in the vacuum of space when it shold he impossible. No offense but an empty speech bubble in space isn't evidence of anything in a comic setting.

On another note Nul may not have been koed but he was definitely laid out in that scene.
So, because it happened sometime, it happens everytime?

Then why is his speech bubble filled in the very next panel when he entered atmosphere?

Originally posted by abhilegend
So, because it happened sometime, it happens everytime?

Then why is his speech bubble filled in the very next panel when he entered atmosphere? I wouldn't say it's a sometimes occurrence because it happens too regularly for it to be that.

As already stated by someone before. It could have been there to show a stunned state . It could have simply been there to show him mumbling. All so we can see Nul go from 0 to a hundred in a few panels.

I'm not saying it has to show that particular outcome but if we are talking averages on comics being unable to talk in space is so low the others are more likely then that one.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Thorbags are blind to that.
So rational explanations being given are answered with fan boy and thorbag?

Originally posted by abhilegend
So, because it happened sometime, it happens everytime?

Then why is his speech bubble filled in the very next panel when he entered atmosphere?
??

Nul reached the stratosphere. He never left earth's atmosphere. He can't enter something he never left. The heat was really due to the speed at which he was accelerating back down through the atmosphere. I think for the sake of argument everyone is calling it reentry.

Originally posted by Newjak
I wouldn't say it's a sometimes occurrence because it happens too regularly for it to be that.

As already stated by someone before. It could have been there to show a stunned state . It could have simply been there to show him mumbling. All so we can see Nul go from 0 to a hundred in a few panels.

I'm not saying it has to show that particular outcome but if we are talking averages on comics being unable to talk in space is so low the others are more likely then that one.
Of course you can. There are several instances where characters are shown to be unable to talk in space. It's not a general rule that characters can always talk in space.

Yet, in the very next panel where he enters atmosphere, he was talking. Now it's possible that Fraction saw Internet meme about characters talking in space but that's just reaching.

You know Occam's razor and all that shit. Originally posted by celeyhyga17
So rational explanations being given are answered with fan boy and thorbag?


??

Nul reached the stratosphere. He never left earth's atmosphere. He can't enter something he never left. The heat was really due to the speed at which he was accelerating back down through the atmosphere. I think for the sake of argument everyone is calling it reentry.
Now, being unable to talk through vacuum/lack of air isn't "unable to talk through lack of air".

Reentry is not reentry. It's just hulk flying down too fast.

This is rational talking?

crylaugh

I forgot how full of excuses you are.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Of course you can. There are several instances where characters are shown to be unable to talk in space. It's not a general rule that characters can always talk in space.

Yet, in the very next panel where he enters atmosphere, he was talking. Now it's possible that Fraction saw Internet meme about characters talking in space but that's just reaching.

You know Occam's razor and all that shit.
Now, being unable to talk through vacuum/lack of air isn't "unable to talk through lack of air".

Reentry is not reentry. It's just hulk flying down too fast.

This is rational talking?

crylaugh

I forgot how full of excuses you are.
Good job on deflecting and not actually addressing points that were given.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Good job on deflecting and not actually addressing points that were given.


Like reentry isn't actually reentry?



Great argument.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Like reentry isn't actually reentry?



Great argument.
Dude.. Reentry is a term we are using for the purpose of this thread. If you want to get technical, actual atmospheric entry(reentry) starts at an altitude of around above 100km. Stratosphere is the 2nd layer from the bottom, so anything coming from that area is actually not entering the earth's atmosphere. There are 3 other layers at higher altitudes.

It's not stated anywhere in the comic. Now please add something useful to the discussion and not derail it with trollish replies.

Hulk burning up while entering atmosphere isn't reentry.

We need specific words for that.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hulk burning up while entering atmosphere isn't reentry.

We need specific words for that.


?

Abhi. Why are you stuck on reentry. We are already calling it that. I guess you have nothing left to add but troll and derail? Come on bruh. Give me something worth replying to. Do you have actual points to reinforce or are you going to just continue posting laugh emotes?

i'd be willing to wager a full life time ban on the entire INTERNET, not just this site, that the empty speech bubble was intended to get across the idea that sound doesn't travel in space. some authors take that kind of thing more seriously than others. there are scans of thor having to wear a mask in outer space. there have DEFINITELY been times where sound has clearly NOT traveled in space. the bubble is there though, obviously for a reason. that fact alone makes it...illogical to assume he was in any way at all ko'd. like i said, it seems inarguable to me, but this discussion was old years ago.

i'm certainly not calling you a fanboy celey (i know you're far from that), but i confess to not being able to understand how you think you (or anyone) can support the idea that he was ko'd in that panel--certainly not based on the reasons you've given.

If there was an argument worth discussing, I might do it.

As it is, you are simply denying what happened in the comic.

Where are the scans of hulk only reaching stratosphere?

Originally posted by leonidas
i'd be willing to wager a full life time ban on the entire INTERNET, not just this site, that the empty speech bubble was intended to get across the idea that sound doesn't travel in space. some authors take that kind of thing more seriously than others. there are scans of thor having to wear a mask in outer space. there have DEFINITELY been times where sound has clearly NOT traveled in space. the bubble is there though, obviously for a reason. that fact alone makes it...illogical to assume he was in any way at all ko'd. like i said, it seems inarguable to me, but this discussion was old years ago.

i'm certainly not calling you a fanboy celey (i know you're far from that), but i confess to not being able to understand how you think you (or anyone) can support the idea that he was ko'd in that panel--certainly not based on the reasons you've given.
Well the very thing you are using as a reason for not being ko'd is the very thing I'm using he was. I saw it as a way to convey that Nul was just coming around before his accelerated descent. I always thought it was further reinforced by the disparity of his body language and facial expression between the first and second panel. It felt as if some time has elapsed(nothing significant but enough) from him being punted into the stratosphere and the panel where he was shown drifting because it clearly showed no significant amount of energy or momentum. It's as if he was slowly drifting for a bit then started to come around with his acceleration through the atmosphere. I like Newjak's explanation of him in a stunned state or even mumbling and his 0 to 60 expression.

And if we were going the technical route going by your feel for what this writer thinks about sounds in space, wouldn't Nul still be able to create sounds with his voice since sound can travel in the stratosphere? Nul was never in an actual vacuum of space.

Originally posted by abhilegend


If there was an argument worth discussing, I might do it.

As it is, you are simply denying what happened in the comic.

Where are the scans of hulk only reaching stratosphere?
Read the book. Did you ever know me as one to lie about these things. Referenced in both Fear Itself and the Hulk vs Drac tie in.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Of course you can. There are several instances where characters are shown to be unable to talk in space. It's not a general rule that characters can always talk in space.

Yet, in the very next panel where he enters atmosphere, he was talking. Now it's possible that Fraction saw Internet meme about characters talking in space but that's just reaching.

You know Occam's razor and all that shit.
Now, being unable to talk through vacuum/lack of air isn't "unable to talk through lack of air".

Reentry is not reentry. It's just hulk flying down too fast.

This is rational talking?

crylaugh

I forgot how full of excuses you are. it's happened but most times writers give two shits about people not being able to talk in space.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Read the book. Did you ever know me as one to lie about these things. Referenced in both Fear Itself and the Hulk vs Drac tie in.
Yes, I have.

I'm not going to do your work. Post the scans.

Originally posted by Newjak
it's happened but most times writers give two shits about people not being able to talk in space.
Way to generalize.

Seemed like Fraction did give a shit about it as he was able to talk one panel later in atmosphere.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Way to generalize.

Seemed like Fraction did give a shit about it as he was able to talk one panel later in atmosphere. it is because it applies. Superman Lobo Rulk Surfer Wonder Woman Green Lantern Iron Man and the list can keep growing have all done it. It's the same as characters being able to to have entire conversations in the midst of a one secondition action panel. It's comic they care more for the story telling then anything else.

And we don't know if that was what the bubble was supposed to mean. Like as been pointed oUT before that kind of bubble has also been used to show case being stunned.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Well the very thing you are using as a reason for not being ko'd is the very thing I'm using he was. I saw it as a way to convey that Nul was just coming around before his accelerated descent. I always thought it was further reinforced by the disparity of his body language and facial expression between the first and second panel. It felt as if some time has elapsed(nothing significant but enough) from him being punted into the stratosphere and the panel where he was shown drifting because it clearly showed no significant amount of energy or momentum. It's as if he was slowly drifting for a bit then started to come around with his acceleration through the atmosphere. I like Newjak's explanation of him in a stunned state or even mumbling and his 0 to 60 expression.

And if we were going the technical route going by your feel for what this writer thinks about sounds in space, wouldn't Nul still be able to create sounds with his voice since sound can travel in the stratosphere? Nul was never in an actual vacuum of space.

that last bit of info wasn't acknowledged until later though, so space could easily have been the intent. or the person in the later book was just wrong... and even at the very edge, sound would just BARELY be able to carry--if it could at all.

you're still reaching too far imo. the simplest explanation is usually the best one--there was a speech bubble. ergo, he was trying to talk or at least make some sound. that's...why they are used. to infer anything else from it just seems....pointless. to try and say a speech bubble was used just to try and show he was...coming to or whatever seems kinda ridiculous to me. no need for mental gymnastics here, at all, imo. but like i said, you're a big boy. i just think your stance (and anyone else who shares it) is pretty unsupportable. clearly not changing your mind though, so, shake hands and agree to disagree.

Originally posted by leonidas
that last bit of info wasn't acknowledged until later though, so space could easily have been the intent. or the person in the later book was just wrong... and even at the very edge, sound would just BARELY be able to carry--if it could at all.

you're still reaching too far imo. the simplest explanation is usually the best one--there was a speech bubble. ergo, he was trying to talk or at least make some sound. that's...why they are used. to infer anything else from it just seems....pointless. to try and say a speech bubble was used just to try and show he was...coming to or whatever seems kinda ridiculous to me. no need for mental gymnastics here, at all, imo. but like i said, you're a big boy. i just think your stance (and anyone else who shares it) is pretty unsupportable. clearly not changing your mind though, so, shake hands and agree to disagree. Leo even if the bubble was trying to show him talking you guys do realize people can talk while Knocked the f*ck out. Heck people still convulse when KOED throwing punches and the like.

My main thing sticks though pretending that somehow him being in space as the sole reason thw bubble is empty is a silly foundation in a comic considering how often that rule broken.

Originally posted by Newjak
it is because it applies. Superman Lobo Rulk Surfer Wonder Woman Green Lantern Iron Man and the list can keep growing have all done it. It's the same as characters being able to to have entire conversations in the midst of a one secondition action panel. It's comic they care more for the story telling then anything else.

And we don't know if that was what the bubble was supposed to mean. Like as been pointed oUT before that kind of bubble has also been used to show case being stunned.
So you ignore the actual comic contradicting it as Hulk couldn't talk into space and later he could talk into atmosphere but citing random example which have no relevance to the actual comic?

facepalm

Originally posted by Newjak
Leo even if the bubble was trying to show him talking you guys do realize people can talk while Knocked the f*ck out. Heck people still convulse when KOED throwing punches and the like.

My main thing sticks though pretending that somehow him being in space as the sole reason thw bubble is empty is a silly foundation in a comic considering how often that rule broken. Originally posted by abhilegend
So you ignore the actual comic contradicting it as Hulk couldn't talk into space and later he could talk into atmosphere but citing random example which have no relevance to the actual comic?

facepalm
He was shown talking one panel after that.

How was he koed? Any implication would suffice. Just one mention of him being koed or even stunned.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So you ignore the actual comic contradicting it as Hulk couldn't talk into space and later he could talk into atmosphere but citing random example which have no relevance to the actual comic?

facepalm you have to assume that is what the empty bubble was first trying to convey. It could also be interpreted as he was stunned/koed and he was coming to when he fell back into earth.

you have to assume....that's the biggest problem with your stance right there.

and...people talk while ko'd...? that...seems like a crazy supposition to make to me.

it seems a lot more reasonable to say that the empty bubble is there because, like any bubble, it was intended to show he was TALKING. the fact that it was empty just represents a lack of sound--makes sense in space. and, it's a lot easier to understand than saying it was shown to show he was....knocked out? thing with your stance is, you have to explain away the reason for the bubble BEING there in the first place. surely if he were ko'd it would be simpler to just...not have a bubble at all. any other instances, in any comic ever, where a speech bubble was drawn to show someone WAS ko'd? seems, very very odd to me and requires far too many mental gymnastics to justify. speech bubble=not ko'd. doesn't seem contestable imo.

also, didn't the worthy lose their glowing power when they were ko'd or taken out? i thought so, but, whatever. it's a pretty silly thing that this much detailed argumentation needs to be put into something so trivial. i'm afraid from my pov this is about as clear as anything can get.

lmao at Leo teaching English and not knowing the meaning of "..."

Originally posted by leonidas
that last bit of info wasn't acknowledged until later though, so space could easily have been the intent. or the person in the later book was just wrong... and even at the very edge, sound would just BARELY be able to carry--if it could at all.

you're still reaching too far imo. the simplest explanation is usually the best one--there was a speech bubble. ergo, he was trying to talk or at least make some sound. that's...why they are used. to infer anything else from it just seems....pointless. to try and say a speech bubble was used just to try and show he was...coming to or whatever seems kinda ridiculous to me. no need for mental gymnastics here, at all, imo. but like i said, you're a big boy. i just think your stance (and anyone else who shares it) is pretty unsupportable. clearly not changing your mind though, so, shake hands and agree to disagree. That bit of info was still written by the same writer though(Fraction). Consequently it was carried over in Hulk vs Drac by a different team. The point is he would have still have been able to speak going by the technical route you are taking.

How is this a reach? Wouldn't it have been a simpler explanation to accept he was able to speak like how many writers take that same simpler route to circumvent the vacuum of space? And all this assuming he was in a vacuum (which he wasn't since he only reached the stratosphere where sound travels faster by the way). And I'm not even reinforcing the fact that he was also at this point an Asgardian empowered being that can afford such trivial things in the grand scheme of storytelling.

And the only reason I even brought up the stratosphere was to explain why he should still be able to speak if we go the technical route.

And how is it mental gymnastics to convey that empty speech bubbles convey "coming to or coming around"? That is not even remotely hard to not fathom. Pretty sure it has been used many times to convey at the very least a stunned character after receiving a big wallop. We also see the empty speech bubble used in a panel where his body was in a laid out and relaxed position with seemingly eyes closed. That as opposed to his fearful facial expression and action filled body language in the next couple of panels where he is uttering words in exclamation. It just doesn't mix.

I understand what your stance as well as others who share your view, but I just think the facts and what was shown on panel sway more to another one.

Serpent had empty speech bubbles more than once in Fear Itself. Don't think anyone would assume he was koed.

Originally posted by carver9
Serpent had empty speech bubbles more than once in Fear Itself. Don't think anyone would assume he was koed.
No because he was standing up in the middle of a speech.

He wasn't just on the receiving end of a hellacious wallop that punted him from terra firma to the stratosphere.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
No because he was standing up in the middle of a speech.

He wasn't just on the receiving end of a hellacious wallop that punted him from terra firma to the stratosphere.



Hulk was in space though so we know he couldn't stand up. No sign of him being able to fly either, so, I don't get what you mean.

Originally posted by leonidas
you have to assume....that's the biggest problem with your stance right there.

and...people talk while ko'd...? that...seems like a crazy supposition to make to me.

it seems a lot more reasonable to say that the empty bubble is there because, like any bubble, it was intended to show he was TALKING. the fact that it was empty just represents a lack of sound--makes sense in space. and, it's a lot easier to understand than saying it was shown to show he was....knocked out? thing with your stance is, you have to explain away the reason for the bubble BEING there in the first place. surely if he were ko'd it would be simpler to just...not have a bubble at all. any other instances, in any comic ever, where a speech bubble was drawn to show someone WAS ko'd? seems, very very odd to me and requires far too many mental gymnastics to justify. speech bubble=not ko'd. doesn't seem contestable imo.

also, didn't the worthy lose their glowing power when they were ko'd or taken out? i thought so, but, whatever. it's a pretty silly thing that this much detailed argumentation needs to be put into something so trivial. i'm afraid from my pov this is about as clear as anything can get. In the world of comics you are assuming no matter what because it ends up depending upon the writer/artist as to what the scene was supposed to mean. Especially when dealing with physics.

Also yes talking while KOed is a thing Leo. It's no different than when you talk while asleep. I mean during KOes you can still move/convulse, your eyes can be open. I've seen people try to stand up and fall back down asleep after being KOed. KO does not mean motionless or brain dead. Also most KOes don't last very long most people think. Few minutes at most anymore then that and it's brain damage most likely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVNhVFNWtFc

Here is a video. You see KOed people that are moving, trying to mouth things. Heck Hulk definitely looks laid out in that panel.

Originally posted by carver9
Serpent had empty speech bubbles more than once in Fear Itself. Don't think anyone would assume he was koed.

Let's just ignore those janithors.

http://i58.tinypic.com/2wg6cra.jpg

Originally posted by Newjak
you have to assume that is what the empty bubble was first trying to convey. It could also be interpreted as he was stunned/koed and he was coming to when he fell back into earth.
Occam's razor newjak.

Thor fans have the onus to prove he was koed.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Let's just ignore those janithors.



You phukker you. Lawlzzz.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Occam's razor newjak.

Thor fans have the onus to prove he was koed. like I've said before comics make Occam's razor almost irrelevant sometimes.

Also once again you can still speak or mumble while koed

Fraction wrote a whole space battle where everyone was speaking in space around the same time. Surfer, Thor, Galactus, Odin, Sif, etc

Originally posted by Newjak
you have to assume that is what the empty bubble was first trying to convey. It could also be interpreted as he was stunned/koed and he was coming to when he fell back into earth.

No it can not be. When Thor hits Nul, the hammer is dislodged from Nul's hand. Nul attemts to grab for it, and the next thing we see is the hammer in Nul's hand as he drifts through space. We see that he is holding his hammer in a very controlled fashion, and talking in space. The reason that the speech bubble is blank, is because sound does not travel through space. In the next panel he continues to speak, but the only reason that we see words is because he re-enters the atmosphere. I don't know why something that was clearly seen on panel is so hard to understamd? When was Nul KO'd? First begin with explaining the dislodged hammer, and Nul's attempts of recapturing it, then explain him having the hammer, and then explain when he was KO'd. You won't be able to, because if Nul was reaching for the hammer after being hit, what time did he have to be KO'd?

Let's go over the evidence again.
1 Thor hits Nul.
2. The hammer is dislodged from Nul's hand.
3. Nul attempts to recapture the dislodged hammer.
4. Nul is in space drifiting because he can not fly, or does not know how to use the hammer to that extent yet, but he clearly has perfect control of the hammer, which is firmly gripped by him.
5. Nul is floating above the atmosphere, and is speaking but no sound comes out, because sound does not travel in space.
6. Upon re-entry, Nul, is still speaking but becomes audible, due to having pierced the atmosphere again.

Number 3 does not make any sense because if Nul was KO'd the hammer would not have been in his hand, but back on Earth where it was dislodged from his hand after the hit. When was Nul KO'd? Before the hit? We know that he couldn't have gotten the hammer or even attempted to recover the dislodged hammer, if he was KO'd. Nul was simply BFR'd. No KO ever occurred. If Thor KO'd Nul he would not have had the hammer in his hand.

Originally posted by leonidas
i'd be willing to wager a full life time ban on the entire INTERNET, not just this site, that the empty speech bubble was intended to get across the idea that sound doesn't travel in space. some authors take that kind of thing more seriously than others. there are scans of thor having to wear a mask in outer space. there have DEFINITELY been times where sound has clearly NOT traveled in space. the bubble is there though, obviously for a reason. that fact alone makes it...illogical to assume he was in any way at all ko'd. like i said, it seems inarguable to me, but this discussion was old years ago.

i'm certainly not calling you a fanboy celey (i know you're far from that), but i confess to not being able to understand how you think you (or anyone) can support the idea that he was ko'd in that panel--certainly not based on the reasons you've given.
Leo, I'd forgotten about the re-entry scan (since Fear Itself was so stupid and forgettable) and I've changed my opinion.

I agree with you/Carver/Stoic, Nul was not KOed. He was trying to speak in a vacuum.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Fraction wrote a whole space battle where everyone was speaking in space around the same time. Surfer, Thor, Galactus, Odin, Sif, etc

Thor and the rest of the characters that you just mentioned are either cosmic, or divine characters. They have always had the ability to speak in space.

Lol...let's also not forget the part where Nul allows Thor to pound on him, a blood lusted Thor, that is trying to kill Nul (die, you DIE ), and it does nothing. Hell, Thor fatigues himself wailing on Hulk and Hulk is on his feet like nothing happened, staring at Thor. Even allows Thor to get up.

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4769/thorvshulkandthing5b.jpg

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/8383/thorvshulkandthing6.jpg

Everything; EVERYTHING - goes against Nul being koed. Especially when we have panels showing Thor being unable to even harm Nul...an all out bloodlusted Thor.

Years later i still think he was KO'd

Originally posted by Newjak
like I've said before comics make Occam's razor almost irrelevant sometimes.

Also once again you can still speak or mumble while koed
Not really.

In comics? I'd like to see that.

Originally posted by Stoic
No it can not be. When Thor hits Nul, the hammer is dislodged from Nul's hand. Nul attemts to grab for it, and the next thing we see is the hammer in Nul's hand as he drifts through space. We see that he is holding his hammer in a very controlled fashion, and talking in space. The reason that the speech bubble is blank, is because sound does not travel through space. In the next panel he continues to speak, but the only reason that we see words is because he re-enters the atmosphere. I don't know why something that was clearly seen on panel is so hard to understamd? When was Nul KO'd? First begin with explaining the dislodged hammer, and Nul's attempts of recapturing it, then explain him having the hammer, and then explain when he was KO'd. You won't be able to, because if Nul was reaching for the hammer after being hit, what time did he have to be KO'd?

Let's go over the evidence again.
1 Thor hits Nul.
2. The hammer is dislodged from Nul's hand.
3. Nul attempts to recapture the dislodged hammer.
4. Nul is in space drifiting because he can not fly, or does not know how to use the hammer to that extent yet, but he clearly has perfect control of the hammer, which is firmly gripped by him.
5. Nul is floating above the atmosphere, and is speaking but no sound comes out, because sound does not travel in space.
6. Upon re-entry, Nul, is still speaking but becomes audible, due to having pierced the atmosphere again.

Number 3 does not make any sense because if Nul was KO'd the hammer would not have been in his hand, but back on Earth where it was dislodged from his hand after the hit. When was Nul KO'd? Before the hit? We know that he couldn't have gotten the hammer or even attempted to recover the dislodged hammer, if he was KO'd. Nul was simply BFR'd. No KO ever occurred. If Thor KO'd Nul he would not have had the hammer in his hand. Please show me where Nul did not have the hammer when he was hit into space? I'm trying to find a scan of it but am unable to.

Originally posted by Stoic
Thor and the rest of the characters that you just mentioned are either cosmic, or divine characters. They have always had the ability to speak in space. Unlike the divine Hulk who was speaking in (broken) runes?

Originally posted by Newjak
Please show me where Nul did not have the hammer when he was hit into space? I'm trying to find a scan of it but am unable to.

Can someone post the entire fight. Perhaps I'm not remembering it correctly, or got the sequence of events mixed up. I'm willing to leave a space for doubt on the hammer being dislodged, but I'm pretty sure that there was a scene that Thor hit Nul, and the hammer becomes dislodged. So if anyone has the entire fight sequence, and the hammer is dislodged like I thought that it was, it goes to show without a doubt that Nul had no time to be KO'd. However, he was speaking while drifting in space, and sound does not travel in space. When he pierces the atmosphere once again he is still speaking, but becomes audible because of the fact that he is pulled back down into the atmosphere. The only reason why he was drifting was because he did not know how to use the hammer to fly yet. What position was he supposed to be in while drifting through space? Was he supposed to be standing upright? If so, he was standing upright. I mean, what did people expect to see in that scene? He was drifting in a vacuum.

Originally posted by Stoic
Can someone post the entire fight. Perhaps I'm not remembering it correctly, or got the sequence of events mixed up. I'm willing to leave a space for doubt on the hammer being dislodged, but I'm pretty sure that there was a scene that Thor hit Nul, and the hammer becomes dislodged. So if anyone has the entire fight sequence, and the hammer is dislodged like I thought that it was, it goes to show without a doubt that Nul had no time to be KO'd. However, he was speaking while drifting in space, and sound does not travel in space. When he pierces the atmosphere once again he is still speaking, but becomes audible because of the fact that he is pulled back down into the atmosphere. The only reason why he was drifting was because he did not know how to use the hammer to fly yet. What position was he supposed to be in while drifting through space? Was he supposed to be standing upright? If so, he was standing upright. I mean, what did people expect to see in that scene? He was drifting in a vacuum. Here is the fight as posted in the Hulk respect thread. It's the very last fight in the Thor section. According to that sequence we Thor hit Hulk a massive bolt then Nul is in space.
It does not show Nul without his hammer anytime during that. I was wodnering if perhaps I page was missing from the fight sequence but if that is the fight then Nul never lost his hammer when Thor hit him.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=14073062&highlight=Nul+forumid%3A98#post14073062

Originally posted by Newjak
Here is the fight as posted in the Hulk respect thread. It's the very last fight in the Thor section. According to that sequence we Thor hit Hulk a massive bolt then Nul is in space.
It does not show Nul without his hammer anytime during that. I was wondering if perhaps I page was missing from the fight sequence but if that is the fight then Nul never lost his hammer when Thor hit him.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=14073062&highlight=Nul+forumid%3A98#post14073062

I don't have much time, so I couldn't find the source that i got the scan from, but on this page that I'm going to post, If you go down to where I say Thor plants Nul, you will see the hammer being dislodged from Nul's hand. The only problem is that I forget the fight sequence. So just check it out. http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t614143.html

However the evidence is far greater that Nul was never KO'd because sound does not travel in space. We then see this as he re-enters the atmosphere while still talking, but the only difference is that in one panel he is not audible due to being out in space. Cosmic beings and divine beings have always been portrayed to speak in space. Nul was neither. But yeah check out that page, and locate the scan of Nul being hit. Again it's the reason why I wanted someone to post the entire fight.

Originally posted by Stoic
I don't have much time, so I couldn't find the source that i got the scan from, but on this page that I'm going to post, If you go down to where I say Thor plants Nul, you will see the hammer being dislodged from Nul's hand. The only problem is that I forget the fight sequence. So just check it out. http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t614143.html

However the evidence is far greater that Nul was never KO'd because sound does not travel in space. We hen see this as he re-enters the atmosphere while still talking, but the only difference is that in one panel he is not audible due to being out in space. Cosmic beings and divine beings have always been portrayed to speak in space. Nul was neither. But yeah check out that page, and locate the scan of Nul being hit. Again it's the reason why I wanted someone to post the entire fight. the respect thread I posted does have the entire figght sequence and that was before thor hit him again into space. Feel free to check it out.

so much reaching smh