Golden Freeza vs. Beerus

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Galan007
Golden Freeza:
http://i.imgur.com/4QxzE6g.gif


VS.


Lord Beerus:
http://i.imgur.com/LyijMU9.gif


-Assume Freeza has mastered his Golden form, and overcome its stamina limitations.
-Beerus fights at 100%.
-Battle takes place on an indestructible planetoid.


Discuss.

Crimson Dragoon
I'd still give Beerus the edge in power and he struck me as more skilled than Freeza in martial arts

Placidity
Wasn't Frieza afraid of Beerus?

Galan007
Originally posted by Crimson Dragoon
I'd still give Beerus the edge in power and he struck me as more skilled than Freeza in martial arts I think they'd be nearly identical, power-wise. Whis noted that SSJGSSJ Goku+SSJGSSJ Vegeta would be able to match 100% Beerus if they worked together. This means they must be really close to Beerus' level individually, otherwise they get shit-stomped in rapid succession(that's how it works in DBZ--if you're significantly weaker than your opponent, numbers are inconsequential.)

That said, Golden Freeza looked demonstrably superior to SSJGSSJ Goku until the rapid ki consumption of his freshly-acquired form started weakening him. Had it not been for that, Freeza would have beaten Goku, imo... What's funny is that Freeza is such a natural prodigy that he likely could have mastered his Golden form with just a few more weeks of training, and removed the ki consumption/stamina drawback all together... But instead, he let his arrogance get the better of him. Again.

sad

Originally posted by Placidity
Wasn't Frieza afraid of Beerus? Before he trained, yes.

Blockythe1guy
Whis also said both teaming up and they can easily beat Golden Freeza.

So Beerus at 100% can take Freeza IMO.

yungz22
freeza was afraid of beerus even after he transformed

Galan007
Originally posted by Placidity
Wasn't Frieza afraid of Beerus? Sorry, it slipped my mind that Golden Freeza did seem afraid of Beerus when they saw one another on earth. However, that was just a psychological handicap on Freeza's part, as he had always been told that he must fear Beerus(and Majin Buu):
http://i.imgur.com/ssAqqa2.png

And since Godly ki cannot be sensed/read, Freeza obviously had no way to definitively compare himself to Beerus--thus, his 'fear' certainly isn't indicative of the difference between them... Luckily for us, however, we do have a definitive means to gauge Golden Freeza's power: his battle with SSJGSSJ Goku. Based on that, we know Golden Freeza is very close to Beerus' level. smile

Originally posted by Blockythe1guy
Whis also said both teaming up and they can easily beat Golden Freeza.

So Beerus at 100% can take Freeza IMO. Yeah, it would take Goku+Vegeta to beat Golden Freeza, and Goku+Vegeta to match/beat Beerus.

So iyo, what percentage of his power would Beerus have to use in order to defeat Freeza?

Originally posted by yungz22
freeza was afraid of beerus even after he transformed See above.

Dramatic Gecko
It seems to me Beerus would win but it would be his most enjoyable fight in like forever.

Q99
I'm curious how Cold knew of either Beerus or Buu.

AuraAngel
Beerus meets with aliens though.

I dunno for Buu though.

Galan007
Originally posted by Q99
I'm curious how Cold knew of either Beerus or Buu. Beerus likely met with Cold at some point, like he did with beings from many other races.

As for him knowing of Buu: I'm not really sure. Though I'd imagine that his destructive reputation preceded him...

Utrigita
Beerus for the win imo. I don't recall but was it actually stated by Whis that it would be a 100% Beerus that Goku and Vegeta could take on? Or just that they could fight him evenly?

Dramatic Gecko
There was a party in the manga where you see a flashback of a planet ravaged by Buu and the dead aliens lying around look like 1st or 2nd form frieza's like King Cold.

Astner
Didn't Whis say that if Goku and Vegeta worked together they had a shot at taking out Beerus? So, since they were both individually stronger than Frieza Beerus had to be stronger.

Placidity
Freeza is such a noob for not developing his powers more before trying to kill Goku. I thought he could see exactly what was happening while in hell? I remember a scene where Freeza and Cell were in hell rooting for Buu or some other villain.

bbrem123
He would not be able to win. He is on par with Goku not Beerus. Didnt Goku say it would have been a great match if he had learned his form better.

Galan007
*Note
Instead of abbreviating Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan with "SSJGSSJ", I'm going to start using the abbreviation: "BSSJG"(Blue Super Saiyan God.) It's not as much of a tongue twister, and just as clear. stick out tongue

Originally posted by Utrigita
I don't recall but was it actually stated by Whis that it would be a 100% Beerus that Goku and Vegeta could take on? Or just that they could fight him evenly? 100% is the only thing that makes sense. It required 70% of Beerus' power just to deal with SSJG Goku individually during BoG. Now, he and Vegeta have each surpassed SSJG, so obviously 70% Beerus would not be sufficient to deal with both of them.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
There was a party in the manga where you see a flashback of a planet ravaged by Buu and the dead aliens lying around look like 1st or 2nd form frieza's like King Cold. According to BoG, Freeza and Beerus had personally met years prior:
Beerus: "All that said, I'm no fan of Freeza's either... If we cross paths again, I'll gladly wipe the entitled bugger out."

So that explains how Freeza/Cold knew about Beerus.

As for Buu: he has been rampaging across the universe since time immemorial. It only makes sense that he'd gain quite a reputation over that time. Heck, Beerus may have even mentioned Buu to Freeza/Cold at some point. Something like: "What, you think your clan is something special? Ha! You're not even half as strong as that Majin Buu creature the Kaioshin had so much trouble dealing with."

srug

Originally posted by Astner
Didn't Whis say that if Goku and Vegeta worked together they had a shot at taking out Beerus? So, since they were both individually stronger than Frieza Beerus had to be stronger. When Golden Freeza was at his peak, he was demonstrably superior to BSSJG Goku. It was only when the ki consumption of his new form began to tax Freeza's stamina reserves, that Goku gained the upper hand.

...Freeza doesn't have any stamina drawbacks here.

Originally posted by Placidity
Freeza is such a noob for not developing his powers more before trying to kill Goku. I thought he could see exactly what was happening while in hell? I remember a scene where Freeza and Cell were in hell rooting for Buu or some other villain. That's filler.

In the manga, evildoers don't get to keep their bodies and watch current events on a big screen in Hell when they die. Instead, they are removed from their bodies entirely, and their souls are immediately sent for purification:
http://i.imgur.com/ckXpWKk.jpg

That is also what happened with Pure Buu. When he was killed by the Genki Dama, his soul was immediately purified, and he was reborn as Uub.

Originally posted by bbrem123
He would not be able to win. He is on par with Goku not Beerus. Didnt Goku say it would have been a great match if he had learned his form better. See above. When Golden Freeza was at 100%, he was superior to BSSJG Goku. It was only when Freeza became depleted that Goku started controlling the fight.

bbrem123
Originally posted by Galan007
100% is the only thing that makes sense. It required 70% of Beerus' power just to deal with SSJG Goku individually during BoG. Now, he and Vegeta have each surpassed SSJG, so obviously 70% Beerus would not be sufficient to deal with both of them. imo the 70% statement seems pretty inaccurate. That would make The BSSJG only a ~20% increase. You would think it would be x2

Originally posted by Galan007
See above. When Golden Freeza was at 100%, he was superior to BSSJG Goku. It was only when Freeza became depleted that Goku started controlling the fight. Hmm. I saw it as he was untrained and wasted his energy to fast. While Goku could control his better to last longer in a fight. He pulled a Muhammad Ali on Frieza.

Time-Immemorial
Bills shit stomps

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Galan007
I think they'd be nearly identical, power-wise. Whis noted that SSJGSSJ Goku+SSJGSSJ Vegeta would be able to match 100% Beerus if they worked together. This means they must be really close to Beerus' level individually, otherwise they get shit-stomped in rapid succession(that's how it works in DBZ--if you're significantly weaker than your opponent, numbers are inconsequential.)

That said, Golden Freeza looked demonstrably superior to SSJGSSJ Goku until the rapid ki consumption of his freshly-acquired form started weakening him. Had it not been for that, Freeza would have beaten Goku, imo... What's funny is that Freeza is such a natural prodigy that he likely could have mastered his Golden form with just a few more weeks of training, and removed the ki consumption/stamina drawback all together... But instead, he let his arrogance get the better of him. Again.

sad

Before he trained, yes.

"demonstrably superior to SSJGSSJ Goku" What? lol

Goku was toying with him...

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by yungz22
freeza was afraid of beerus even after he transformed

This, he said shaking in his skin "I hope you will not interfere"

Placidity
Originally posted by Galan007


That's filler.

In the manga, evildoers don't get to keep their bodies and watch current events on a big screen in Hell when they die. Instead, they are removed from their bodies entirely, and their souls are immediately sent for purification:
http://i.imgur.com/ckXpWKk.jpg

That is also what happened with Pure Buu. When he was killed by the Genki Dama, his soul was immediately purified, and he was reborn as Uub.


You know I realized this only makes it much worse for Frieza.

If Frieza only knew about Goku's SSJ1 form, then he should have been scared sh*tless after their initial battle.

This is because Goku was beating him in his base form, and from Frieza's past experience he will know that if Goku went SSJ1, his power would increase tremendously, far more than Frieza's own Golden form.

SSJ1 transformation = 50x

Golden Transformation is no where near that. I'd say between 2x to 5x.

Time-Immemorial
Until we see Whis kicking ass, I don't think we will see any huge gaps in power.

Galan007
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
"demonstrably superior to SSJGSSJ Goku" What? lol

Goku was toying with him... When Golden Freeza what at his peak, he was demonstrably superior to BSSJG Goku. srsly

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
This, he said shaking in his skin "I hope you will not interfere" This, again, means nothing in relation to where Freeza stands in comparison to Beerus. Godly ki cannot be sensed(not even by Goku), therefore Freeza had NO definitive means through which to gauge his power against Beerus'. The reason Freeza was 'afraid' of Beerus was purely psychological--his entire life it had been ingrained in his mind to fear Beerus. It was a natural reaction.

Galan007
Originally posted by Placidity
You know I realized this only makes it much worse for Frieza.

If Frieza only knew about Goku's SSJ1 form, then he should have been scared sh*tless after their initial battle.

This is because Goku was beating him in his base form, and from Frieza's past experience he will know that if Goku went SSJ1, his power would increase tremendously, far more than Frieza's own Golden form.

SSJ1 transformation = 50x Freeza went into his battle with Goku knowing that he had killed Majin Buu--so he was at least prepared for Buu-level++ power.

Originally posted by Placidity
Golden Transformation is no where near that. I'd say between 2x to 5x. Freeza's Golden form, you mean? Hard to say.

In his 4th form(post-training), Freeza was able to put up a fight against base Goku, but Goku was still in control the entire time. When Freeza began using his Golden form, however, he became superior to even BSSJG Goku(while at full power.)

However, according to the official Jap-dub/translation, BSSJG doesn't really glean a huge power increase over SSJG...
Goku(after transforming): "It's hard to explain, but it's basically a Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God."

So it's not necessarily granting loads more power than SSJG--just channeling and using it better(SSJG had a distinct time limit, for example, while BSSJG does not.) But since Goku and Vegeta have been training under Whis since the events of BoG, and the battle itself is touted as "surpassing gods", I'm sure they've become stronger than Goku was as a SSJG in Battle of Gods. I'd have them each around an 8.5, and peak Golden Freeza around a 9.0(relative to Beerus' 10.)

We also know that after Goku absorbed the Godly ki into his person during BoG, his base form was weaker than SSJG, but not by much(as noted by Beerus.) So if SSJG Goku=6, then base Goku would probably be around a 5.5. So yeah, we aren't dealing with huge multipliers here.

It would look like this:
Whis>>Beerus~BSSJG Goku+BSSJG Vegeta>Golden Freeza(peak)>BSSJG Goku=BSSJG Vegeta>SSJG Goku>base Goku=base Vegeta>4th form Freeza(post-training)>>>everything before.

OR

Whis=15
Beerus=10
BSSJG Goku+BSSJG Vegeta=10
Golden Freeza(peak)=9.0
BSSJG Goku/Vegeta=8.5(each)
SSJG Goku(BoG)=6.0
Base Goku/Vegeta(RoF)=5.5(each)
4th form Freeza(post-training)=4.5

*Some of those are just rough estimates, btw. They are certainly subject to interpretation/change. thumb up

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Galan007
When Golden Freeza what at his peak, he was demonstrably superior to BSSJG Goku. srsly

This, again, means nothing in relation to where Freeza stands in comparison to Beerus. Godly ki cannot be sensed(not even by Goku), therefore Freeza had NO definitive means through which to gauge his power against Beerus'. The reason Freeza was 'afraid' of Beerus was purely psychological--his entire life it had been ingrained in his mind to fear Beerus. It was a natural reaction.

Bro Bills would have trounced freeza like a pile of shit. What gives you any inclination otherwise to think any different?

Galan007
Had you actually read my posts, and not been childishly trolling "cuz u leik da GAWDZ MOAR!!1!!!11!", you'd know why Beerus would logically NOT have "trounced freeza like a pile of shit."

Troll one more time in this thread, and I will PM a Global about you directly. smile

Time-Immemorial
I'm not trolling? Why would I troll you? But please report me for asking questions. I like be reprimanded for absolutely nothing.

I don't see how Freeza posed any threat to Goku much less Bills.

AuraAngel
Let's see Golden Freeza is more of a Super Saiyan mode than any of the SSJG forms seen previously so that means we can reasonably assume it puts a strain on the body, draining Freeza's stamina. Goku and Gohan got around that strain by simply staying SSJ for innocuous things like picnics and rest. If Freeza did something like that with Golden Mode then he would probably come very close to Beerus in power, potentially even surpassing him.

But Freeza is more likely to go the Super Vegeta route rather than Goku's "relax as a SSJ" mode. Freeza probably wouldn't consider staying in the mode for everyone to see and if he did further training it would be the stuff he had done in the 4 months. I'm not sure how strong he'd become in that case but my gut tells me he'd still be below Beerus.

My thoughts and such.

Galan007
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I'm not trolling? Why would I troll you? But please report me for asking questions. I like be reprimanded for absolutely nothing.

I don't see how Freeza posed any threat to Goku much less Bills. Last time I'm saying this...

Again, when Golden Freeza was at his peak, he was demonstrably superior to BSSJG Goku. It was only when the rapid ki-consumption of Freeza's new form began to tax him(because he hadn't yet mastered it) that BSSJG Goku gained the upper hand. However, in this thread we are assuming that Freeza has mastered his Golden form, thus has overcome its stamina issues. ie. Golden Freeza will have no problem maintaining his full-power in this battle.

Again, Whis confirmed that BSSJG Goku+BSSJG Vegeta can match Beerus if they fight together. This means they must be quite close to Beerus' level individually, otherwise they'd still get stomped effortlessly(that's how DBZ works.)

Again, we know that BSSJG Goku is fairly close to Beerus' level, but not so close as to match him alone. We also know that full-power Golden Freeza>BSSJG Goku. Thus, logic dictates that Golden Freeza would be really close to Beerus' level by proxy.

Again, Freeza may not win, but saying things like: "Bills would have trounced freeza like a pile of shit" is absolutely idiotic, given what we know. So yeah, if you still choose to ignore said evidence in favor of your baseless opinions, then you are trolling, and you will be reported as such. smile

Time-Immemorial
Ah that makes sense, also I have to admit, I did not read this post below.

Originally posted by Galan007
Freeza went into his battle with Goku knowing that he had killed Majin Buu--so he was at least prepared for Buu-level++ power.

Freeza's Golden form, you mean? Hard to say.

In his 4th form(post-training), Freeza was able to put up a fight against base Goku, but Goku was still in control the entire time. When Freeza began using his Golden form, however, he became superior to even BSSJG Goku(while at full power.)

However, according to the official Jap-dub/translation, BSSJG doesn't really glean a huge power increase over SSJG...
Goku(after transforming): "It's hard to explain, but it's basically a Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God."

So it's not necessarily granting loads more power than SSJG--just channeling and using it better(SSJG had a distinct time limit, for example, while BSSJG does not.) But since Goku and Vegeta have been training under Whis since the events of BoG, and the battle itself is touted as "surpassing gods", I'm sure they've become stronger than Goku was as a SSJG in Battle of Gods. I'd have them each around an 8.5, and peak Golden Freeza around a 9.0(relative to Beerus' 10.)

We also know that after Goku absorbed the Godly ki into his person during BoG, his base form was weaker than SSJG, but not by much(as noted by Beerus.) So if SSJG Goku=6, then base Goku would probably be around a 5.5. So yeah, we aren't dealing with huge multipliers here.

It would look like this:
Whis>>Beerus~BSSJG Goku+BSSJG Vegeta>Golden Freeza(peak)>BSSJG Goku=BSSJG Vegeta>SSJG Goku>base Goku=base Vegeta>4th form Freeza(post-training)>>>everything before.

OR

Whis=15
Beerus=10
BSSJG Goku+BSSJG Vegeta=10
Golden Freeza(peak)=9.0
BSSJG Goku/Vegeta=8.5(each)
SSJG Goku(BoG)=6.0
Base Goku/Vegeta(RoF)=5.5(each)
4th form Freeza(post-training)=4.5

*Some of those are just rough estimates, btw. They are certainly subject to interpretation/change. thumb up

Dramatic Gecko
Originally posted by Galan007
*Note
According to BoG, Freeza and Beerus had personally met years prior:
Beerus: "All that said, I'm no fan of Freeza's either... If we cross paths again, I'll gladly wipe the entitled bugger out."

So that explains how Freeza/Cold knew about Beerus.



Yes... I know. huh But thanks for the info.

Originally posted by Galan007

As for Buu: he has been rampaging across the universe since time immemorial. It only makes sense that he'd gain quite a reputation over that time. Heck, Beerus may have even mentioned Buu to Freeza/Cold at some point. Something like: "What, you think your clan is something special? Ha! You're not even half as strong as that Majin Buu creature the Kaioshin had so much trouble dealing with."

srug



I guess its possible. Sounds a little fanfic though.

See I just read the last volume the other week and remember seeing a planet with dead little frieza-like creatures. Its possible Buu is the reason there is only a few of them left. I do like the theory. big grin

bbrem123
Hmm I always thought Goku was superior to Frieza. Frieza just used wayy more of his power at once because he is a noob at his new form. Goku knew this and took advantage by pulling the good ole Muhammad Ali tactic on him.


Just because Frieza seemed superior in the beginning moments does no automatically mean he was stronger. Just more foolish/careless with his power output.

imo

Galan007
It wasn't just the beginning moments... It was a good chunk of the battle. Aside from that that, Beerus wondered why Goku AND Vegeta didn't just team up and destroy him--which tells us that Goku could NOT have beaten peak Freeza alone. Furthermore, it was never stated that Goku was holding back.

So yeah, per the evidence at hand, peak Freeza was legitimately superior. thumb up

bbrem123
I shall take your word on it. I still have not seen the actual movie yet

Galan007
^ That's how things happen in the Jap-dub, at least. I'm sure the English-dub will try to change some things up a bit. stick out tongue

bbrem123
Didnt Fieza say he used to much power on an attack or something?

Galan007
Not that I recall. What was stated is that Freeza wasn't yet accustomed to his new form, thus was being rapidly depleted by its ki-consumption.

Anyway, here are a few excerpts from the battle, which tell us that Freeza was solidly commanding the fight while he was at his peak:

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Galan007
Whis=15
Beerus=10
BSSJG Goku+BSSJG Vegeta=10
Golden Freeza(peak)=9.0
BSSJG Goku/Vegeta=8.5(each)
SSJG Goku(BoG)=6.0
Base Goku/Vegeta(RoF)=5.5(each)
4th form Freeza(post-training)=4.5

*Some of those are just rough estimates, btw. They are certainly subject to interpretation/change. thumb up

Um... What?

Base Goku and Vegeta are a 5.5 next to Bills's 10, to you?

That would make them both more than half as strong as him. That would literally make Goku capable of beating Bills with Kaioken X2.

The other forms of Goku and Vegeta, and especially Frieza, don't even belong on that scale. Bills is literally thousands of times stronger than them. They don't even come close to him, until the god forms come into play.

Base Goku would be like... a 0.025, if Bills was a 10, lol.

Galan007
"lol", indeed.

In BoG, Beerus outright told Goku that his power didn't decrease by much when he reverted from SSJG to base--that's why he was still able to put up a damn good fight against 70% Beerus in his base level... And he has obviously become even more powerful since BoG, thanks to his training from Whis.

So yeah, if SSJG Goku was a 6.0 in BoG, there's no reason why base Goku wouldn't be at least a 5.5 by the time of RoF.

It wouldn't hurt for you to actually know something about the material you're commenting on, before you comment on it. thumb up

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Galan007
"lol", indeed.

In BoG, Beerus outright told Goku that his power didn't decrease by much when he reverted from SSJG to base--that's why he was still able to put up a damn good fight against 70% Beerus in his base level... And he has obviously become even more powerful since BoG, thanks to his training from Whis.

So yeah, if SSJG Goku was a 6.0 in BoG, there's no reason why base Goku wouldn't be at least a 5.5 by the time of RoF.

It wouldn't hurt for you to actually know something about the material you're commenting on, before you comment on it. thumb up

#gottem

eaebiakuya
Beerus stomps.

Beerus and Whis said Goku + Vegeta could beat Golden Freeza without effort.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Galan007
"lol", indeed.

In BoG, Beerus outright told Goku that his power didn't decrease by much when he reverted from SSJG to base--that's why he was still able to put up a damn good fight against 70% Beerus in his base level... And he has obviously become even more powerful since BoG, thanks to his training from Whis.

So yeah, if SSJG Goku was a 6.0 in BoG, there's no reason why base Goku wouldn't be at least a 5.5 by the time of RoF.

It wouldn't hurt for you to actually know something about the material you're commenting on, before you comment on it. thumb up

I don't think you're getting this here.

SSJ1 is a 50X boost to base.

If you took 5.5, and multiplied it by 50, you'd end up with a 275, meaning that Goku was 27.5 times stronger than Bills as a SSJ1, in RoF. This... was clearly not the case. confused

And all we know is that Bills used a maximum of 70% in his entire fight with Goku. It would be outright silly to assume that he was somehow equally as strong in base as he was in SSJG. That would mean that any of his SSJ forms would stomp Bills.

The only difference was that Goku's body had absorbed some godly ki from his own transformation, which in turn made him capable of fighting Bills in ANY form. It didn't make him any stronger or weaker, just capable of using godly ki, in addition to his regular ki.

While there is that massive whole in your argument though, there is also the one in mine, which has a whole because Goku in base still fought on par with Bills, and didn't just speedblitz him, and one-shot him as a SSJ1.

It's honestly just PIS, which is there because Toriyama probably has Alzheimer's. It's really nothing to argue about in the first place, since the power scaling in the new material is a thousand times worse than GT.

AuraAngel
You're assuming the base modifiers apply to someone with godly ki the same way they apply to normal Saiyans.

If it worked the way you're describing then Goku would have only needed to go SSJ2 or 3 to beat Beerus in the last movie since those modifiers applied to Goku's 6 would trump Beerus's 10. That wasn't the case so clearly things work differently with godly ki.

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by AuraAngel
You're assuming the base modifiers apply to someone with godly ki the same way they apply to normal Saiyans.

If it worked the way you're describing then Goku would have only needed to go SSJ2 or 3 to beat Beerus in the last movie since those modifiers applied to Goku's 6 would trump Beerus's 10. That wasn't the case so clearly things work differently with godly ki.

Agreed, also, I think someones mom was abused by trying to teach her science. Hence why her son has a hard time.

Galan007
Originally posted by AuraAngel
You're assuming the base modifiers apply to someone with godly ki the same way they apply to normal Saiyans.

If it worked the way you're describing then Goku would have only needed to go SSJ2 or 3 to beat Beerus in the last movie since those modifiers applied to Goku's 6 would trump Beerus's 10. That wasn't the case so clearly things work differently with godly ki. Exactly. thumb up

Again: BSSJG is AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT TRANSFORMATION THEN WE'VE EVER SEEN BEFORE. Goku merely likened it to a regular SSJ in order to make it easier to explain to Freeza. However, the previous SSJ multipliers are inconsequential--BSSJG=/=SSJ. srsly

Goku stated that BSSJG simply took him from base, back up to SSJG-level power... And his base already isn't that much weaker than SSJG to begin with. Even accounting for the increase he logically gained by training with Whis, we're still probably dealing with less than a 2x increase.

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Galan007
Exactly. thumb up

Again: BSSJG is AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT TRANSFORMATION THEN WE'VE EVER SEEN BEFORE. Goku merely likened it to a regular SSJ in order to make it easier to explain to Freeza. However, the previous SSJ multipliers are inconsequential--BSSJG=/=SSJ. srsly

Goku stated that BSSJG simply took him from base, back up to SSJG-level power... And his base already isn't that much weaker than SSJG to begin with. Even accounting for the increase he logically gained by training with Whis, we're still probably dealing with less than a 2x increase.

Gogeta will never agree with you but clearly Galan>random crap and shit>gogeta.

U need Leonard
Beerus will win, rather assuredly.

It is revealed that Goku and Vegata, well into Goku's battle with Gold Freeza, already knew Freeza didn't have proper control over his power. Thus, anything that occurred during this battle could be called into question. So, did Freeza really have the upper hand or was Goku simply making the most of his moment; something he has done time and time again. With this information, there's no definitive reason to place Gold Freeza with full control, over Goku or Vegeta, let alone, close to Beerus. Could he defeat Goku? Maybe. Maybe a battle would occur where Goku, half way through it, didn't already know he was going to win.

It also appears Freeza, in the film, knew Beerus would destroy him, as Beerus tells Freeza and Goku to move their fight further away and they do. Freeza seems to revere Beerus and I doubt control over a form he has already attained will be a big enough to have him engage in a melee with Beerus, where Freeza's demise isn't 100% assured.

Galan007
Goku: "Man, I've had it... I'm kinda gettin' my butt kicked..." Given that statement, there is no reason to assume that Freeza wasn't legitimately controlling the battle until he began to weaken.

As for Freeza's reaction to Beerus: I mentioned earlier why that doesn't mean anything in regard to the difference in power between them.

U need Leonard
Goku also commended Vegeta for beating him up in the Buu Saga.

Obviously, Freeza's reaction to Beerus isn't the only evidence that Freeza will be destroyed. If Freeza's new form is having fits vs Goku and Goku & Vegeta are only 'implied' to be above 70% Beerus, this means Freeza has to make up at least 29%, almost a 3rd of Beerus' power. Given all of this, his reaction is part of a case that he is aware of his inferiority.

Galan007
Originally posted by U need Leonard
Goku also commended Vegeta for beating him up in the Buu Saga.

Obviously, Freeza's reaction to Beerus isn't the only evidence that Freeza will be destroyed. If Freeza's new form is having fits vs Goku and Goku & Vegeta are only 'implied' to be above 70% Beerus, this means Freeza has to make up at least 29%, almost a 3rd of Beerus' power. Given all of this, his reaction is part of a case that he is aware of his inferiority. Except we know for a fact that Goku was holding back an entire transformation when he fought Vegeta. This was obviously not the case in RoF. It was made clear that BOTH parties were going all-out.

As I've said multiple times: Whis confirmed that BSSJG Goku+BSSJG Vegeta can match 100% Beerus if they fight together. This means they must be fairly close to Beerus' level individually, otherwise they'd still get stomped effortlessly(that's how DBZ works--if you're significantly weaker than your opponent, numbers are inconsequential.) We also know that full-power Golden Freeza>BSSJG Goku. Thus, logic dictates that full-power Golden Freeza would be pretty close to Beerus' level by proxy.

Freeza being 'afraid' of Beerus means absolutely nothing in regard to power. Godly ki cannot be sensed/read(not even by Goku, who actually has Godly ki), therefore Freeza had NO definitive means through which to accurately compare his power to Beerus'. His reaction upon seeing Beerus was purely psychological--his entire life it had been ingrained in his mind to fear Beerus. Seeing him for the first time in decadeS is obviously going to bring back some old memories.

Anyway, based on what we know: Beerus would likely win, but it would logically not be a stomp.

U need Leonard

Crimson Dragoon
The burden of proof falls on the one claiming Goku was holding back in some manner because nowhere in the fight was it implied he was doing so

I'd think it's rather stupid for Goku to say he's losing to Freeza if he were holding back, and Goku was only off-guard at that particular moment since Freeza was already burned out and beaten

bbrem123
This makes me think that the RSSG was a form beyond BSSG. Beerus was even confused on how Goku managed to stop his final attack.

I still dont understand how that form was a complete body change yet the BSSG does not yield the same look at all?

bbrem123
If BSSG was weaker than RSSG it would make sense why Beerus is not threatened by Frieza/Goku/Vegeta at all

just a thought ha

eaebiakuya
But the same Whis, stated that Goku + Vegeta would beat Golden Freeza without much effort if they fighted togheter.

I think the hardest it can be for Bills is medium difficulty.

Galan007

U need Leonard
Originally posted by Crimson Dragoon
The burden of proof falls on the one claiming Goku was holding back in some manner because nowhere in the fight was it implied he was doing so

I'd think it's rather stupid for Goku to say he's losing to Freeza if he were holding back, and Goku was only off-guard at that particular moment since Freeza was already burned out and beaten

Wether or not Goku was or wasn't holding back is not the main focus. As no where is it implied that he was or wasn't, this should not be a main point of focus. He simply said that Goku was "going all out" and I simply recall battles were Goku didn't feel like it was okay to let his gaurd down.

Goku never said he was weaker than Freeza, only that to he was "kinda getting his butt kicked" while smiling at that fact. He's had tough stretches in fights before. This is not enough evidence to assume Freeza can beat Goku.

Galan007
Originally posted by U need Leonard
Goku never said he was weaker than Freeza, only that to he was "kinda getting his butt kicked" while smiling at that fact. He's had tough stretches in fights before. This is not enough evidence to assume Freeza can beat Goku. Ridiculous.

Freeza was SHOWN controlling the battle. Goku SAID he was getting beaten by Freeza. We were NEVER given a reason to assume that Goku was using anything but his FULL power.

...Yet that doesn't suffice as evidence that peak Golden Freeza>BSSJG Goku, iyo? You DO know how this whole 'debating thing' works, right?

U need Leonard
My above statement can also be applied to the other posts directed at me, as well.

U need Leonard
Originally posted by Galan007
Ridiculous.

Freeza was SHOWN controlling the battle. Goku SAID he was getting beaten by Freeza. We were NEVER given a reason to assume that Goku was using anything but his FULL power.

...Yet that doesn't suffice as evidence that peak Golden Freeza>BSSJG Goku, iyo? You DO know how this whole 'debating thing' works, right? No it doesn't serve as enough evidence.

As I've said before, we come to learn mid-fight, that Goku already knew he was going to win. This calls into question the entire battle. Goku was essentially waiting to win and even gave Freeza a chance to leave and possibly improve.

I know how debating works, and I know stating assumptions as facts isn't a good way of engage in one. Let's not get testy about all of this.

Galan007
Goku only recognized the 'weakness' of Freeza's Golden form, when he started weakening from its rapid ki-consumption.

We have NO reason to assume that Goku was allowing Freeza to control the battle prior to that, however. Goku outright said he was not going to hold back, and also said that Freeza was legitimately beating him.

You're ignoring explicit facts from the film, in favor of your personal conjecture/opinion(which you obviously cannot prove, lol.) That is absolutely ridiculous, and not worth my time... It borders on trolling, tbh.

Anyway, I'm done feeding your BS. If anyone else would like to discuss this topic, however, I'm all ears. smile

U need Leonard

john allerdyce
laughing out loud I just watched the movie, and it's clear what happened; frieza was more powerful then goku at first. there was no other reason for us to see frieza thrashing him for a bit, and for goku to mention that he was losing. soon after goku made that statement is when he obviously sensed that freiza's power was dropping and that he should just "go home". there is honestly no reason to think that goku was holding back or whatever up to that point.

He's a saiyan ffs... a saiyan fighting his arch nemesis.... a saiyan fighting his arch nemesis, who said he wasn't going to hold back. no reason to twist the dialogue. its clear what happened. cool

U need Leonard
... I'm done being sidetracked by people who obviously have not seen the movie and are not being truthful when they say they have. This thread is not about Goku vs Freeza...

What is wrong with everyone wanting to argue with me so much on this? This is really crazy. The point is, if we have to assume Freeza, given time would become adequate enough to defeat Goku in battle, how does this make him reasonably close to Beerus.

What are people's definition of "close"? How do we know this mythical version of Freeza's gold form wouldn't prompt a brutal beating from a 79% Beerus? In almost every post I've made, it's harken back to Freeza not being a threat to Beerus. You have essentially replaced Beerus with Goku.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by U need Leonard
... I'm done being sidetracked by people who obviously have not seen the movie and are not being truthful when they say they have. This thread is not about Goku vs Freeza...

What is wrong with everyone wanting to argue with me so much on this? This is really crazy. The point is, if we have to assume Freeza, given time would become adequate enough to defeat Goku in battle, how does this make him reasonably close to Beerus.

What are people's definition of "close"? How do we know this mythical version of Freeza's gold form wouldn't prompt a brutal beating from a 79% Beerus? In almost every post I've made, it's harken back to Freeza not being a threat to Beerus. You have essentially replaced Beerus with Goku.

You were the one that was making a point of Goku somehow letting Frieza control their fight, even though he explicitly said he was going to go all out.

No, the POINT is that Frieza was superior to Goku, at the beginning of their fight. In fact, Frieza was kind of manhandling Goku. And since SSJGSSJ Goku wasn't MUCH weaker than Bills, it raises the question, "Was Golden Frieza as strong as Bills, or possibly even stronger?". And since Frieza gets infinite golden form in this fight, with no stamina reduction, that means he would maintain that Bills level strength for the entire fight.

This could lead to an extremely even fight between the two, which could end with either Bills, or Frieza winning. It's just a matter of opinion and speculation, at that point. Although, Bills has been trained by Whiss, and has MILLIONS of years experience over Frieza.

IMO, Bills would win this, but SIMPLY because of the fact that he is a godly martial artist, with millions of years of experience and combat training, while Frieza, even after training for three months, is essentially STILL just an alien that has had a high power since birth. So even though they would be about equal, Bills should be the marginally better fighter, so I would give him an edge.

SSJGGogeta
Also, would anyone happen to know where to watch this yet? In english subs. Seems like I'm the only one who hasn't actually seen it yet, lol.

U need Leonard
I never said explicitly that Goku let Freeza rough him up for the few minutes he was able. I simply interjected that it could be a possibility considering Goku knew victory was assured. If we can't even be sure Goku wasn't giving Freeza the rope-a-dope, how can we be sure he can contend with Beerus at 100%?

If people would actually watch the film, we will see Goku remark that he was getting beat up and then literally, his next statement is an acknowledgement of Freeza's futility, this is in the movie.

Goku stated he knew Freeza's power would plummet, well before it was ever apparent. Again, it would help if people watched the film. Goku was being beaten and then he arose and told Freeza to go home. Only after Goku mentioned Freeza's weakness, did his power actually drop. Goku knew this would occur, during the fight. All of this is in the film. Goku wasn't being beaten any less than he was before he acknowledged the weakness in Freeza's game. The film is on Youtube and torrents, you can see for yourselves.

How can one claim to have seen this movie and then say Beerus will struggle to get a majority over Freeza? We don't even know how Goku stacks up against Beerus, only that he's 'above' Beerus' 70%. Beerus could turn around and kill Goku at 73% for all we know.

Galan007
Goku said the same thing during the Namek saga, when Freeza started using 100% power. Because Goku knew that Freeza would ultimately tire out due to the strain 100% put on his body, does that mean was feigning weakness there, too..? Lol, that's not how Saiyans operate--they LOVE challenging themselves in battle as much as possible.

You really need to get off that high-horse of yours. If something wasn't stated or shown, then it didn't happen. Your opinions are irrelevant if they cannot be substantiated. In this case, Goku SAID he wasn't going to hold back against Freeza, and later SAID that Freeza was beating him up to that point. Goku sensing that Freeza's Golden form would rapidly deplete his ki certainly does not imply that he was holding back initially. Stop injecting your opinions into the scene. It's ridiculous. thumb up

Galan007
edit.

U need Leonard
It does imply since Goku explained Freeza's weakness before anyone became aware...as though he knew it was an eventuality. These are not opinions, this is in the film, you all should view it.

The only opinion here is that, somehow, after watching this film, a perfected Freeza is now capable of fighting Beeus at 'close' to 100%, there is no meaningful evidence of this.

Galan007
Again: Goku sensing that Freeza's Golden form would rapidly deplete his ki certainly does not imply that he was holding back initially. If anything, that would make Goku want to fight harder at the commencement of the battle, so that he could fight Freeza while he was at his peak.

That is how Saiyans think. thumb up

U need Leonard
I'm not saying that's absolutely the case, I'm just noting the possibility and how the events of the movie don't make a solid case for him rivaling Beerus.

cdtm
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Also, would anyone happen to know where to watch this yet? In english subs. Seems like I'm the only one who hasn't actually seen it yet, lol.

There's leaked footage out there just like there are for all movies, if all you want to see is the fight.

Galan007
Originally posted by U need Leonard
I'm not saying that's absolutely the case, I'm just noting the possibility and how the events of the movie don't make a solid case for him rivaling Beerus. Without the ki-consumption/stamina drawbacks of his Golden form hindering Freeza, I think he would be approaching Beerus' level(for reasons I've already mentioned)... He would certainly present the most challenging opponent Beerus has ever faced, sans Whis.

bbrem123
Goku was running away to drain Frieza's energy. Just saying

Some parts did seem like he was strategically fighting Frieza

Galan007
^ Even if you think that's what Goku was doing(no statements were made to that effect, mind you), that doesn't mean he was pulling his punches, and/or allowing Freeza to pummel him... Which is all I'm saying.

Given that Goku can very accurately sense ki-levels, I'm sure he could sense that Freeza's Golden form was consuming a lot of ki. But again: that would only make Goku want to fight harder when the battle first commenced, so that he could fight Freeza while they were both at their peak(s). In that respect, it's no different then their battle on Namek--except in this case, Freeza was legitimately more powerful initially.

U need Leonard
Originally posted by bbrem123
Goku was running away to drain Frieza's energy. Just saying

Some parts did seem like he was strategically fighting Frieza

Exactly my point, it's clear Goku was aware of Freeza's weakness suprisingly 'early' into the fight. Goku has lied about going all out before, twice in the Buu saga. There's enough evidence to question whether or not he was giving Freeza the rope-a-dope. Add to that, on several occasions, knowing Freeza had a knew form he was willing to allow Freeza to improve. This suggests Goku is still confident in his abilities if he were to leave and return.

Let's not forget he lied about using his full power against Beerus in Bog at one point; Beerus himself at that point didn't even realize it. I don't claim to know what's in a fictional character's heart or head but given Goku already knew Freeza was fighting a losing battle, I'm going to need to see a perfected Freeza in action before I automatically assume he can beat Goku. I can't remember a major fight Goku was in where he wasn't getting beat up at 1st. Goku has been winning battles he started out losing since Dragon Ball. Those few short minutes of Goku getting knocked around is no where near enough evidence for me to jump to that conclusion.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by U need Leonard
It does imply since Goku explained Freeza's weakness before anyone became aware...as though he knew it was an eventuality. These are not opinions, this is in the film, you all should view it.

The only opinion here is that, somehow, after watching this film, a perfected Freeza is now capable of fighting Beeus at 'close' to 100%, there is no meaningful evidence of this.

What? Are you stupid or something?

Goku specifically let Frieza transform, for the SOLE purpose of having a good fight. Why would he try to run away from him, while he had the chance of a good fight? That's the entire reason he remarked that he was getting his butt kicked in the first place. He was glad that he was having a good fight, but still knew that there wasn't a huge danger that Frieza posed to him.

YOU are the one using opinions over facts. Frieza was SUPERIOR to SSJGSSJ Goku, while he was at full power. Marginally so, in fact. JUST like how 100% Frieza was superior to SSJ1 Goku, on Namek. This whole fight was a TOTAL rehash. Anyway, YOU'RE the one that's assuming that Goku knew throughout the duration of the fight, that Frieza's power would drop. Which is NOT the case. He wouldn't have waited to tell Frieza to quit, if he knew the whole time. He told Frieza to give up, because he noticed that Frieza's power was dropping. There is no way to know if he knew this prior to that point, meaning that you CANNOT assume so. We take the path of least resistance, which we do in all debates. What makes the most sense, is that Goku would tell Frieza to give up, AS SOON AS HE NOTICED HIS POWER DROPPING. Anything else is pure speculation.

Either way, since Goku was fighting at FULL POWER against Frieza, as was stated TWICE, we have FACTUAL PROOF that Golden Frieza 100% > SSJGSSJ Goku. Which means that: 100% Bills ~ 100% Golden Frieza > SSJGSSJ Goku.

So from there, it is possible that Frieza could be stronger than Bills, weaker than Bills, or equal to Bills. So, we can just infer them to be equal, since that guess would be assuming the least.

Either way, even IF they were equal, Bills still has millions, possibly BILLIONS, of years of experience, and is the MOST skilled martial artist IN THE UNIVERSE, barring Whiss. Frieza is just a mutant, who was gifted with monstrous power, and ability from birth. Even though he trained for a couple months, he's still completely raw, untrained in combat, and not at all in Bills's, or Goku's for that matter, league of skill. He might be able to beat SSJGSSJ Goku because he's stronger than him, but even assuming he's equal to Bills, Bills still has the upper-hand because of his fighting skill, and countless years of experience.

So barring your nonsense, Bills STILL wins. You don't have to go around making things up, to prove that.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by cdtm
There's leaked footage out there just like there are for all movies, if all you want to see is the fight.

I've already seen the fight. I just want to see the rest of the movie, lol. And I can't seem to find any streaming versions, with subtitles, let alone decent quality. sad

Galan007
Originally posted by U need Leonard
Exactly my point, it's clear Goku was aware of Freeza's weakness suprisingly 'early' into the fight. Goku has lied about going all out before, twice in the Buu saga. There's enough evidence to question whether or not he was giving Freeza the rope-a-dope. Add to that, on several occasions, knowing Freeza had a knew form he was willing to allow Freeza to improve. This suggests Goku is still confident in his abilities if he were to leave and return.

Let's not forget he lied about using his full power against Beerus in Bog at one point; Beerus himself at that point didn't even realize it. I don't claim to know what's in a fictional character's heart or head but given Goku already knew Freeza was fighting a losing battle, I'm going to need to see a perfected Freeza in action before I automatically assume he can beat Goku. I can't remember a major fight Goku was in where he wasn't getting beat up at 1st. Goku has been winning battles he started out losing since Dragon Ball. Those few short minutes of Goku getting knocked around is no where near enough evidence for me to jump to that conclusion. The difference is that in ALL of those examples, we were explicitly informed that Goku was holding back. THAT WAS NOT THE CASE IN HIS BATTLE WITH FREEZA. Literally NO concrete evidence alludes to him holding back, while ALL concrete evidence suggests he was going all-out.

You're still injecting too much of your opinion into the scene.

U need Leonard
Originally posted by Galan007
The difference is that in ALL of those examples, we were explicitly informed that Goku was holding back. THAT WAS NOT THE CASE IN HIS BATTLE WITH FREEZA. Literally NO concrete evidence alludes to him holding back, while ALL concrete evidence suggests he was going all-out.

You're still injecting too much of your opinion into the scene.

We were explicitly informed that Goku was holding back...later, after the fact. During those bouts, we had no reason to assume he was. In this battle, we have reason to think he 'could' be; much more reason then in previous cases where he actually was holding back. The problem is, there is no concrete evidence, because a perfected Freeza does not exist and Goku was not worried, in the least, about the possibility when he gave him the chance to leave and perfect his form. There is no "concrete" evidence for anything.


Concrete

ADJECTIVE



existing in a material or physical form; real or solid; .not abstract


These are not my opinions, as I never said Goku was holding back, only that there is a case that he could be, and if that case exists, I can't see him matching Beerus. He would have to have beaten Goku somehow, for me to think that he would "definitely" be closer to Beerus, if his form was perfected, than Goku was and is.

There is a lot to question knowing that Goku has actually been training with Whis and has been siting on this form for who knows how long. Before I start jumping to conclusions, I'd rather just wait for the anime to catch up, to shed more light on these mysteries.

Galan007
Lot of words just to tell me I'm right. thumb up

bbrem123
How could Golden Frieza grasp how strong BSSG Goku was?

carver9
Beerus stomps

bbrem123
I dont dont think this is really even close at all either

carver9
It isn't close. I think Beerus would give him the same treatment he has given everyone he's faced so far. Bills didn't even seem interested in Frieza when he was there witnessing the fight.

Galan007
Given that peak Golden Freeza was > BSSJG Goku, he is likely between an 8.5-9.0 to Beerus' 10. So yes, it is close in that regard.

IOW, Beerus may win, but he certainly would not do so as easily as he's beaten everyone else. That's laughable.

bbrem123
It seem Golden Frieza could sense Godly Ki. He was amazed at Goku when he transformed. How is this even possible in the first place?

He must have sensed Beerus's power. Which is why he was scared

Utrigita
Akira stated in Dragon Ball Volume "F", that Freeza is no match for Beerus no matter what he does, I take that as a sign that the powergap between them is bigger then we suspect.

bbrem123
Yup. These number are great and all but you cant make them the end all for gauging powers. They are just wayyy to flawed. Especially when it comes to DB

carver9
What if Bills destroy a Universe, will people consider Goku as a Universal being as well?

Astner
Originally posted by carver9
What if Bills destroy a Universe, will people consider Goku as a Universal being as well?
http://i.imgur.com/Ald8ijV.jpg

NewGuy01
Goku isn't universal until he becomes Beerus' equal.

carver9
Originally posted by Astner
http://i.imgur.com/Ald8ijV.jpg

laughing out loud

StiltmanFTW
...

Time-Immemorial
So Beerus shits freeza out.

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by carver9
What if Bills destroy a Universe, will people consider Goku as a Universal being as well?

Even if Goku becomes equal to Beerus in fighting level, he will never have the raw power that Beerus does where he can just wipe out planets with a swipe of his finger.

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Galan007
Given that peak Golden Freeza was > BSSJG Goku, he is likely between an 8.5-9.0 to Beerus' 10. So yes, it is close in that regard.

IOW, Beerus may win, but he certainly would not do so as easily as he's beaten everyone else. That's laughable.

You are wrong on this Galan, Beerus would have snuffed Freeza out like the trash he is.

carver9
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Even if Goku becomes equal to Beerus in fighting level, he will never have the raw power that Beerus does where he can just wipe out planets with a swipe of his finger.

Why not? Do you think Whis can do it?

Time-Immemorial
Goku is now half as strong as bills and still takes him forever to fire energy based attacks.

carver9
So you're saying Goku only attack is the Kamehameha wave? He doesn't have any fast burst attacks. Is this what you are saying?

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by carver9
So you're saying Goku only attack is the Kamehameha wave? He doesn't have any fast burst attacks. Is this what you are saying?

Is that what I said or are you just making things up again?

Show me one attack Goku can just wave his finger from a distant place and one shot planets.

Galan007
Originally posted by bbrem123
It seem Golden Frieza could sense Godly Ki. He was amazed at Goku when he transformed. How is this even possible in the first place? IF you're assuming that Freeza can now sense ki(which I don't believe), then BSSJG Goku likely doesn't generate Godly ki.

Originally posted by bbrem123
He must have sensed Beerus's power. Which is why he was scared Ki-sensing is not why Freeza was scared of Beerus.

Time-Immemorial
Yea Freeza is no dummy, he knows how powerful Beerus is regardless.

Beerus manages to give Whis orders even though Whis is more then 50% stronger then him at 100%.

bbrem123
Originally posted by Galan007
IF you're assuming that Freeza can now sense ki(which I don't believe), then BSSJG Goku likely doesn't generate Godly ki.

Ki-sensing is not why Freeza was scared of Beerus. I was just confused as to why he was in such shock when goku transformed

Galan007
Originally posted by bbrem123
I was just confused as to why he was in such shock when goku transformed Imo, because it was an entirely different form then he'd planned on seeing.

U need Leonard
Originally posted by Utrigita
Akira stated in Dragon Ball Volume "F", that Freeza is no match for Beerus no matter what he does, I take that as a sign that the powergap between them is bigger then we suspect.

Just as I had suspected. Thank you for this confirmation.

carver9
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Is that what I said or are you just making things up again?

Show me one attack Goku can just wave his finger from a distant place and one shot planets.

How can I show you that when Goku doesn't destroy planets? I can show you far weaker characters casually destroying planets though. It's hilarious that you question if Goku could casually destroy a planet with a random blast when we have first form Frieza at a power level of 500000 destroying a planet with his finger tip. A planet bigger and more dense than Earth. Goku by the end of the Cell saga was magnitudes more powerful than first form Frieza.

KingD19
Vegeta destroyed Arlia before coming to Earth which he also would have destroyed. Goku can blow up a planet.

Time-Immemorial
I never said he could not blow up a planet you two idiots.

Read what I said before having a buffoonery knee jerk reaction.

Galan007
Originally posted by U need Leonard
Just as I had suspected. Thank you for this confirmation. Apparently you haven't been keeping up with things, because that translation has been circulating around the web since late-July/early-August.

But as I keep reiterating: said statement certainly does not contradict the fact that Beerus would still have to use a very high percentage of his power(near his max, I'd wager) to defeat peak Golden Freeza w/o his stamina weakness intact. After all, Golden Freeza(100%)>BSSJG Goku>SSJG Goku--and even the latter forced Beerus to use 70% of his power during their fight. So yeah...

Of course, this is all still subject to change ala DBS, but as of right now, that's how it'd play out.

U need Leonard
Originally posted by Galan007
Apparently you haven't been keeping up Apparently not.

Originally posted by Galan007
Beerus would still have to use a very high percentage of his power(near his max, I'd wager) to defeat peak Golden Freeza w/o his stamina weakness intact.

I agree with the part of the statement I quoted. That said, the term "near his max", that's relative and vague. I don't think we agree on where "near" actually exists.

BeyonderGod
So this is a assumption/speculation?

Beerus stomps.

Galan007
So in light of the events of DBS, have opinions changed?

Estacado
No.

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