Exar Kun vs. Krayt Reborn

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Stigma
Both are at their peak.

Kun gets his amulets.

Setting: Endor forests

Who wins?

EmperorSidious2
Krayt in a close fight.

ILS
Either way

carthage
How many more times is this topic going to be done?

AncientPower
Ad nauseum.

SunRazer
Krayt frankly just impresses me more. And he's probably more skilled.

Trocity
Originally posted by SunRazer
Krayt frankly just impresses me more. And he's probably more skilled.

thumb up

AncientPower
Kun's blasts are more prominent than Dark Transfer imo. I think Kun also took Niman further, he also has a unique style advantage as well. I'm going with Kun.

SunRazer
And Krayt's skill feats are simply better. Kun's innovative weapon design is nice and all but the fact that he was unstoppable in combat can also be attributed to duelists of his time simply being unprepared for the double-bladed lightsaber to begin with.

AncientPower
But his technique went beyond just the saberstaff, the way he used it was equally as unique and hasn't been replicated by anybody else. Vodo Siosk-Baas was a master of his double edged staff, furthermore his staff was Force embued and stronger than any lightsaber blade. Kun stomped him regardless.

SunRazer
Kun "stomped" him because he wasn't prepared for Kun's weapon, sure. When you have a new weapon that only you know how to use or defend against, it's pretty obvious that your peers are going to get mowed down.

Krayt's skill feats are just better, and he's not unprepared to face a saberstaff. Maybe the individual elements of Kun's saberstaff might pose a challenge, but Krayt is still simply the more skilled combatant.

AncientPower
How can he be unprepared to face a weapon style that he has mastered? Kun arguably was inspired by Baas' own use of staff combat, beyond the holocron Tionne supposedly believes held the design. Furthermore Kun had already beaten Baas plenty of times over beforehand, so accrediting his final victory over him solely to the saberstaff is quite disingenuous.

Exar Kun is prepared for Krayt's jar'kai, he is better with Niman and has a weaponry advantage, furthermore he has better physical feats.

I'd also like to know how Krayt is supposedly so much better than Kun, Kun has more than proven his skill level among the greats.

SunRazer
Based on what did Vodo master the technique? His mastering a staff isn't the same as Kun using a double-bladed lightsaber.

He did also lose to Vodo before, as I recall.

Regardless, what does Kun's specialty in Niman have to do with anything?

Not really. His skill feats are good but I wouldn't rank them beyond Maul. Krayt has handily defeated Cade Skywalker, a duelist who has beaten the likes of Darth Talon, Darth Nihl, slaughtered Sith Troopers, etc. That would put Cade as comparable to somebody like Maul, and as a result, makes him comparable to Kun.

AncientPower
Vodo is accredited with staff mastery, and clearly uses it like a saberstaff, it is a double-ended weapon.

Yes but Kun far before his prime defeating one of the greatest lightsaber instructors ever repeatedly is incredibly impressive.

Krayt is a Niman specialist but hasn't taken it to the highest degrees of mastery like Exar Kun has.

Ulic Qel-Droma was one of the best duelists of his time, was a master of Form V and was prodigal in his skill, blitzing Warb Null, destroying Krath War Droids and killing presumably dozens of Krath themselves and later stomping Mandalore, killing his brother Cay Qel-Droma and defeating an enraged Sylvar without Force enhanced abilities, only pure skill.


Exar Kun stalemated Ulic with the potential to equate him until an hours long duel killed them both, this was not Kun using his preferred weapon or style, infact he was stated to match Ulic's power blow for blow, possibly indicating he to used Djem So in that fight.

I don't see how Cade is better than a 'powerhouse' duelist like Ulic Qel-Droma infact I'm not overly convinced he's his equal.

SunRazer
His staff doesn't have the same functions that Kun's saberstaff has.

Kun matching Ulic blow for blow means they have the same level of strength, not that he used Djem So lmao.

Nobody said Cade is better than Ulic. That's a red herring. But slaughtering Sith Troopers, who have stomped Jedi and Sith, and beating Nihl and Talon (some of the most skilled Sith duelists of their time), makes him a rival of Ulic's, and Krayt beat him handily.

Also, Ulic never defeated Sylvar, lol. He held his own, but he got forced back to the edge of the plateau where he basically surrendered and convinced her to let go of her anger.

AncientPower
Of course not, but that's beyond the point, Vodo uses a double ended weapon himself, if anyone in his time knew how to counter Kun it was him and he got beaten badly despite that.

Djem So is all about strength and power blows, it's hardly a laughable feat.

Exar Kun would be superior to Ulic Qel-Droma if his weapon and style were at hand, there is a reason Exar Kun was the Dark Lord of the Sith, he was simply better. Furthermore many of Cade's bouts had Force powers involved and did not remain pure saber bouts, Ulic's however were pure saber skill bouts where he proved his dominance over all but his Sith master.

He pulled her to the edge where he had an advantage and let her own momentum defeat her. He outsmarted her and matched her in skill without the Force to boost his physical abilities, she however had rage boosting her.

SunRazer
Kun's unorthodoxy does come from the various accessories unique to his saberstaff, tbh. Vodo isn't prepared for that.

It's not a laughable feat because it isn't one. There's no evidence for Kun using Djem So. Just because he matched Ulic's strength means nothing other than the fact that he was just as strong as Ulic. It doesn't mean he used Djem So.

Sure he would be superior, but not by the margin Krayt was superior to Cade.

Krayt beat Cade in a sheer contest of sabers as well, and was obviously more powerful in the Force.

lol He was forced back to the edge. He clearly didn't win by virtue of skill or anything. And Sylvar's Rage seemed to be a loss of control more than anything else - it could well be comparable to Anakin's hindrance in RotS.

AncientPower
Thanks for doing my job for me, Kun's lightsaber is an entirely different beast and not one that Krayt can answer, whereas both Krayt's jar'kai and his Niman are absolutely Kun's backyard. As if that was not bad enough Exar Kun's alien style is backed up with advanced precognition, every move Krayt makes is completely predictable to Exar Kun.

It is yet another feat of strength for both combatants and if looked into further could be interpreted as something more but I'll leave it for now.

Actually Exar Kun is evidently on another level to those he'd typically have a hard fight against when he has his weapon and style at hand.

I don't doubt that, I only doubt how Cade is even close to being Darth Maul/Exar Kun level. That is a considerable stretch in my opinion.

I also fail to see how Krayt can physically match Exar Kun:

-Exar Kun has smashed through a wall of beskar.
-Exar Kun has smashed through Vodo's staff twice despite it being stated to be
stronger than any lightsaber.
-Exar Kun has caused shockwaves of sound that stretched for miles due to the
strength of his blows.
-Exar Kun has survived having his body broken in a 100 places without Force
aid and was then made physically stronger than ever by Nadd.
-Exar Kun has effortlessly lifted large aliens.
-Exar Kun has dueled with speed enough to stalemate Ulic whom has caused
several after-images of not just his blade but himself and blitzed Dark Jedi
such as Warb Null.
-Exar Kun has stamina enough to duel with max effort for hours before falling
from exhaustion.

ILS
dis thread

NewGuy01
Lol, the implication that a quarterstaff functions the same as a bo.

carthage
As a what?

AncientPower
Lol at the implication that the saberstaff doesn't share the same basic principles as another double-edged weapon, you might want to look up the bladeborn.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by carthage
As a what?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bō

carthage
Oh a really long stick

SunRazer
Originally posted by AncientPower
Thanks for doing my job for me, Kun's lightsaber is an entirely different beast and not one that Krayt can answer, whereas both Krayt's jar'kai and his Niman are absolutely Kun's backyard. As if that was not bad enough Exar Kun's alien style is backed up with advanced precognition, every move Krayt makes is completely predictable to Exar Kun.

It is yet another feat of strength for both combatants and if looked into further could be interpreted as something more but I'll leave it for now.

Actually Exar Kun is evidently on another level to those he'd typically have a hard fight against when he has his weapon and style at hand.

I don't doubt that, I only doubt how Cade is even close to being Darth Maul/Exar Kun level. That is a considerable stretch in my opinion.

I also fail to see how Krayt can physically match Exar Kun:

-Exar Kun has smashed through a wall of beskar.
-Exar Kun has smashed through Vodo's staff twice despite it being stated to be
stronger than any lightsaber.
-Exar Kun has caused shockwaves of sound that stretched for miles due to the
strength of his blows.
-Exar Kun has survived having his body broken in a 100 places without Force
aid and was then made physically stronger than ever by Nadd.
-Exar Kun has effortlessly lifted large aliens.
-Exar Kun has dueled with speed enough to stalemate Ulic whom has caused
several after-images of not just his blade but himself and blitzed Dark Jedi
such as Warb Null.
-Exar Kun has stamina enough to duel with max effort for hours before falling
from exhaustion.

1. Based on what is Kun prepared to respond to every move Krayt makes? Kun's lightsaber functions aren't a get-out-of-jail free card. Krayt is familiar with the inherent design of a saberstaff as it was used within his Sith Order. Kun's ability to manipulate the lengths and intensities are all that's different - he may be able to exploit those elements against Krayt, but at the same time, somebody who is skilled enough isn't easily going to overextend themselves.

2. A feat of strength doesn't even remotely imply he used Djem So, lol.

3. Because they're unprepared for it, sure.

4. I just listed Cade's feats for you. They are comparable to Maul and Obi-Wan's indeed.

5. Sure, Kun is probably stronger, but it's not as important an edge as Krayt's greater skill or Dark Transfer.

AncientPower
Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Based on what is Kun prepared to respond to every move Krayt makes? Kun's lightsaber functions aren't a get-out-of-jail free card. Krayt is familiar with the inherent design of a saberstaff as it was used within his Sith Order. Kun's ability to manipulate the lengths and intensities are all that's different - he may be able to exploit those elements against Krayt, but at the same time, somebody who is skilled enough isn't easily going to overextend themselves.

2. A feat of strength doesn't even remotely imply he used Djem So, lol.

3. Because they're unprepared for it, sure.

4. I just listed Cade's feats for you. They are comparable to Maul and Obi-Wan's indeed.

5. Sure, Kun is probably stronger, but it's not as important an edge as Krayt's greater skill or Dark Transfer.

1.He is adept in the style of Jar-kai and is a greater master of Niman, which are Krayt's forms. Kun's entire form is unique, his entire fighting style is based on confusing and outfencing his opponents. It is not something that assures him a win but it is a considerable advantage which you ignore.

2.Being able to match the power blows of a master of the form with such techniques at it's core is infact impressive.

3.Because he is outright better when utilising his preferred weaponry/style, no one in his time can keep up with him, why you insist on making this out as not impressive is beyond me.

4.In what way is defeating Nihl and Talon equal to the feats of Darth Maul? Whom has defeated Grievous, stalemated Mace Windu and Aayla Secura single-handedly, defeated Kenobi and faced Darth Sidious in a fairly impressive length of time.

5.Krayt doesn't have greater skill, Kun is the best master of the form in which Krayt specialises and has proven said skill against top tier duelists.

Ulic Qel-Droma is top tier and yet has only equaled his master Exar Kun when Kun played him at his own game. Exar Kun can certainly match Darth Krayt.

Kun's Force Blasts are also more efficient than Krayt's situational Dark Transfer and Kun's Force defenses can contend with anything Krayt has thrown towards him.

SunRazer
1. Niman as the alternate name for Jar'kai? What suggests Kun mastered it to a greater degree than Krayt did? Kun being the best of his time doesn't mean he's better, since Krayt was also the best Jar'kai master of his time and would claim the same accolades Kun did had he lived during Kun's era. And as far as feats go, Kun's aren't better.

2. I'm aware. That still doesn't imply he used Djem So, lol. Just stop trying to save face and give up on the point.

3. Nobody else in Kun's time would be able to keep up with Krayt in terms Jar'kai either, so I'm not sure why you're stressing the point so much.

4. You're not even citing Maul's feats correctly. Maul has never beaten Grievous by virtue of lightsaber skill before, nor has he beaten Obi-Wan by virtue of lightsaber skill (he did gain the considerable advantage once after unsettling Obi-Wan with Dun Moch, sure, but in their rematch on neutral ground, they were obviously even). His fight with Mace was short and inconclusive, though it is impressive he managed to fend off Mace whilst kicking Aayla away. As for Sidious - lol, he held back the entire time, and when he went all-out in the novelization, he wrecked Maul. Dave Filoni also stated Palpatine was enjoying himself against Maul and Savage and that they can't genuinely compete with him (in fact, he stated that they can't even touch him).

Regarding how Cade's feats compare, Nihl and Talon have fought and beaten some of the best Jedi of the era such as Shado Vao/Wolf Sazen who have, in turn, beaten Sith Troopers (immensely augmented Sith warriors that have stomped regular Jedi and Sith before). Nihl's also canonically better than Talon, for that matter, and Cade has beaten both before, which puts him within range of Obi-Wan Kenobi and Darth Maul. And Krayt defeated him without strain.

5. Based on what is Kun the best master of the form that Krayt specializes in? Ulic isn't as skilled as Krayt either, that's ridiculous. So Kun matching Ulic doesn't make him able to match Krayt - he would only potentially be able to do that with his lightsaber accessories. None of the feats you listed for Ulic exceed Cade's, and Kun's other feats of beating Vodo, Craydo and Sylvar frankly aren't any better. So yes, Krayt is still more skilled than Kun, who at best is only matching him with the lightsaber add-ons and unorthodoxy.

6. What have Kun's Force defenses accomplished to suggest that Krayt's Force assaults would be utterly meaningless against him?

Kun seems to require a sort of charging up/becoming considerably enraged in order to unleash Force Blasts that would be too devastating for Krayt to repel using the Force. Otherwise, Krayt has repelled Lightning that has shattered stone, and he can certainly repel Kun's more casual blasts this way.

Dark Transfer is only situational in that Krayt needs to touch Kun to enact it. He's still capable of using Dark Transfer to heal himself.

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