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These two face off again, except this time Gotenks has no time limit on his fusion/SS3.

No candy beams or absorption for Buu.

How's it go?

Super Buu dragged out the fight waiting for Gohan to show up. Without that, Buu turns him into chocolate or absorbs him.

Originally posted by juggerman
Buu turns him into chocolate or absorbs him. Sorry, I just edited the OP. None of that.

So not only do you need to amp Gotenks, but you feel you need to gimp Buu as well? FOR SHAME!!!!

But I think Buu still wins. The fight would be drawn out imo and Buu's regen was near limitless. He would wear Tenks down as he has no way of putting Buu down for good

SSJ3 Gotenks had Buu on the ropes with his last barrage, until his fusion timed-out:
http://i.imgur.com/EsaMyc6m.jpg http://i.imgur.com/7PtcrJ7m.jpg http://i.imgur.com/A08b0sPm.jpg

Tbh, it seemed like he was one more attack away from defeating Buu until the fusion timed-out.


However, Buu-threads are tricky to figure out because he's so damn unkillable. I mean, he reformed nigh-instantly, even after Gotenks and Piccolo incinerated ALL of his pieces in the RoSaT. On top of that, Piccolo was confident that even if they would have vaporized Buu's ashes, he STILL would have reformed(that's why Piccolo would have still destroyed the entrance to the RoSaT after doing so):
http://i.imgur.com/jNn4KNDm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/YPfinTdm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/HVdN8Iwm.jpg

Given the above, it's possible that Buu can regenerate from any 'normal ki' attack-- even if he is completely vaporized... Which explains why the only thing(s) that dealt any lasting damage to Buu were:
-Other versions of Buu(ie. Fat Buu managed to weaken Pure Buu, as noted by Vegeta)
-Vegetto(manifested via the Potara's high-end magics.)
-The Genki Dama.

He was one resilient mofo.

As for this thread: SSJ3 Gotenks would stalemate Buu--and even gain the advantage like he did above. Buu would keep regenerating. Gotenks would run out of energy. Buu would kill him.

Originally posted by juggerman
Super Buu dragged out the fight waiting for Gohan to show up. Without that, Buu turns him into chocolate or absorbs him. Nothing points to Buu holding back at all during his fight with SSJ3 Gotenks, imo. Their powers were equal(as noted by Piccolo), and that legitimately pissed Buu off--it was the first time he'd ever faced anyone on par with himself. The fact that he knew a stronger opponent was out there(ie. Gohan) doesn't mean he feigned weakness against Gotenks for some inextricable reason. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
Nothing points to Buu holding back at all during his fight with SSJ3 Gotenks, imo. Their powers were equal(as noted by Piccolo), and that legitimately pissed Buu off--it was the first time he'd ever faced anyone on par with himself. The fact that he knew a stronger opponent was out there(ie. Gohan) doesn't mean he feigned weakness against Gotenks for some inextricable reason. /shrug

Buu says he knew about Gohan and that the only way to beat Gohan was to absorb Gotenks. Why would he try to kill Gotenks if he needed him? I'm not saying he put kid gloves on but he was clearly not trying to kill Gotenks when he knew he needed to absorb him. And he didn't feign weakness but he did let it drag out after hearing about fusion's time limit. Before that Gotenks had the upperhand but that doesn't mean much.

And Piccolo says Gotenks is close to Buu's power. That "close" is important as it tells us that Buu edges Gotenks but not enough that Gotenks can't put a hurting on Buu

Originally posted by juggerman
Buu says he knew about Gohan and that the only way to beat Gohan was to absorb Gotenks. Why would he try to kill Gotenks if he needed him? I'm not saying he put kid gloves on but he was clearly not trying to kill Gotenks when he knew he needed to absorb him. And he didn't feign weakness but he did let it drag out after hearing about fusion's time limit. Before that Gotenks had the upperhand but that doesn't mean much.That's the thing: if Super Buu really were more powerful than SSJ3 Gotenks, he could have still dominated the fight without killing him. The fact that he didn't dominate the battle at any point tells me that he was incapable of doing so. Toward the end, Gotenks was definitely controlling the battle, imo... I'm certainly not saying there was a huge difference between them, mind you--in fact, I'd have them as rough-equals on average. My only point is that there's nothing concrete to support the notion that Buu was more powerful.

Aside from that, Super Buu saying that he sensed Gohan's power is very inconsistent. There's no way he could have known what Gohan's power was, because Gohan remained suppressed up until the exact moment he started fighting Buu. Yes, he activated his newfound power on Kaioshin's world, but he was still heavily suppressed. That's why Piccolo still thought Buu would stomp Gohan when he first arrived on the field:
http://i.imgur.com/AzAj5R9m.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ds1znAim.jpg

It wasn't until Gohan powered up immediately before striking Buu, that the extent of his power became evident.

Originally posted by juggerman
And Piccolo says Gotenks is close to Buu's power. That "close" is important as it tells us that Buu edges Gotenks but not enough that Gotenks can't put a hurting on Buu This is the canon text:

Gotenks: "He ain't weakened... This really pisses me off!"
Piccolo: "N-No... He is weakened... I don't know about physically, but he's weakened a little mentally...! Th-this is the first time that he's fought someone strong like you... He's feeling flustered by someone whose strength is at least on par with his own..."


Piccolo confirms that Gotenks and Buu were equal, at the very least... And that was when Gotenks was still f*cking around/showboating--we saw what happened toward the end when he actually started fighting Buu seriously.

I think they were equal.

The only beings stronger than Super Buu were Mystic Gohan and SSJ1 Vegetto (before BoG).

Originally posted by Galan007
That's the thing: if Super Buu really were more powerful than SSJ3 Gotenks, he could have still dominated the fight without killing him. The fact that he didn't dominate the battle at any point tells me that he was incapable of doing so. Toward the end, Gotenks was definitely controlling the battle, imo... I'm certainly not saying there was a huge difference between them, mind you--in fact, I'd have them as rough-equals on average. My only point is that there's nothing concrete to support the notion that Buu was more powerful.

Aside from that, Super Buu saying that he sensed Gohan's power is very inconsistent. There's no way he could have known what Gohan's power was, because Gohan remained suppressed up until the exact moment he started fighting Buu. Yes, he activated his newfound power on Kaioshin's world, but he was still heavily suppressed. That's why Piccolo still thought Buu would stomp Gohan when he first arrived on the field:
http://i.imgur.com/AzAj5R9m.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ds1znAim.jpg

It wasn't until Gohan powered up immediately before striking Buu, that the extent of his power became evident.

This is the canon text:

Gotenks: "He ain't weakened... This really pisses me off!"
Piccolo: "N-No... He is weakened... I don't know about physically, but he's weakened a little mentally...! Th-this is the first time that he's fought someone strong like you... He's feeling flustered by someone whose strength is at least on par with his own..."


Piccolo confirms that Gotenks and Buu were equal, at the very least... And that was when Gotenks was still f*cking around/showboating--we saw what happened toward the end when he actually started fighting Buu seriously.

He couldn't have dominated the fight if they were close in strength. Buu could be stronger but not overwhelmingly so.

"Controlling the battle" doesn't really mean much in DBZ. There were times when weaker people controlled the battle against stronger people. Happens quite often.

As far as him sensing it, he may not have known exactly how strong Gohan was but he did know he was stronger than him(Buu). This was confirmed by his statement. Why Piccolo and Gotenks didn't feel it was unexplained. Perhaps they were too focused on Buu or Buu's sensing is stronger seeing as how he's magic.

The main reason I feel Buu is stronger was the statement from Piccolo about Gotenks being close to Buu's strength. If it was misquoted then I guess I was going off of bad info

Originally posted by juggerman
He couldn't have dominated the fight if they were close in strength. Okay, but Buu still could have at least prevented Gotenks from stomping on him if he were stronger. At no point in that battle did Buu have the advantage, though. If anything they were equal, with Gotenks possibly having the slight advantage.

Originally posted by juggerman
"Controlling the battle" doesn't really mean much in DBZ. There were times when weaker people controlled the battle against stronger people. Happens quite often. When that is the case, we are almost always informed of such. Nothing to that effect was stated about Buu/Gotenks, though.

Originally posted by juggerman
As far as him sensing it, he may not have known exactly how strong Gohan was but he did know he was stronger than him(Buu). This was confirmed by his statement. Why Piccolo and Gotenks didn't feel it was unexplained. Perhaps they were too focused on Buu or Buu's sensing is stronger seeing as how he's magic. Gohan remained heavily suppressed up until the exact moment he started fighting Buu--Piccolo's statement confirms this:
http://i.imgur.com/wj4NanLl.png

So there's no possible way that Buu could have sensed his power. I'm just pointing out the glaring inconsistency, is all.

Originally posted by juggerman
The main reason I feel Buu is stronger was the statement from Piccolo about Gotenks being close to Buu's strength. If it was misquoted then I guess I was going off of bad info The canon quote, made when Gotenks was still preoccupied with showboating, states they were equals.

I think what Super Buu felt was Gohan's first burst of energy when Gohan got pissed at Old Kai(Buu was observing Piccolo's hourglass at the time) and might have felt it the second time when Gohan powered up briefly to see how strong he was(when Gotenks had just lost SSJ3). Buu unquestionably has better power sensing capabilities but if Gohan is holding back then he has no reason to assume Gohan is the power he felt earlier since that power was far away.

Originally posted by Galan007
Okay, but Buu still could have at least prevented Gotenks from stomping on him if he were stronger. At no point in that battle did Buu have the advantage, though. If anything they were equal, with Gotenks possibly having the slight advantage.

The fight was pretty back and forth up until the end when Gotenks was in control before lost the SSJ3 form. They fought a bit on the lookout, Buu turned into a ball and attacked, Gotenks caught him and spiked him, Buu fired up, Tenks fired down, Buu blasted Tenks, Tenks responded in kind. All that was pretty even. Then Tenks gained an upperhand. I'd hardly call that stomping.

Originally posted by Galan007
When that is the case, we are almost always informed of such. Nothing to that effect was stated about Buu/Gotenks, though.

I thought we were informed. The translation was wrong tho

Originally posted by Galan007
Gohan remained heavily suppressed up until the exact moment he started fighting Buu--Piccolo's statement confirms this:
http://i.imgur.com/wj4NanLl.png

So there's no possible way that Buu could have sensed his power. I'm just pointing out the glaring inconsistency, is all.

Buu still felt it no matter how suppressed it was. Not saying it makes sense but we are clearly told Buu knew about someone becoming stronger than him. He didn't even know it was Gohan since he laughed when he recognized Gohan. He just felt power and knew he needed to absorb Gotenks

Originally posted by Galan007
The canon quote, made when Gotenks was still preoccupied with showboating, states they were equals.

Yes I know that know. As I've said my reason for supporting Buu as the stronger of the two was based on a mis translated quote.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
I think what Super Buu felt was Gohan's first burst of energy when Gohan got pissed at Old Kai(Buu was observing Piccolo's hourglass at the time) and might have felt it the second time when Gohan powered up briefly to see how strong he was(when Gotenks had just lost SSJ3). Buu unquestionably has better power sensing capabilities but if Gohan is holding back then he has no reason to assume Gohan is the power he felt earlier since that power was far away. Yeah, Buu likely sensed the spike from Gohan when he powered up from base to Mystic. Granted, it was probably a very large spike, but Gohan was still heavily suppressed/sub-Buu-level at the time. He only became superior to Buu when he powered up right before they fought--ergo Piccolo initially stating that Gohan wouldn't stand a chance.

Imo, Mystic Gohan(powered up)>>Super Buu>Mystic Gohan(suppressed.)

But even though Gohan was suppressed, perhaps the spike from him initially accessing his Mystic form was enough to make Buu think: "Hmm, that's a powerful chi! If it can increase even more, I might be in danger!!" /shrug

Originally posted by juggerman
The fight was pretty back and forth up until the end when Gotenks was in control before lost the SSJ3 form. They fought a bit on the lookout, Buu turned into a ball and attacked, Gotenks caught him and spiked him, Buu fired up, Tenks fired down, Buu blasted Tenks, Tenks responded in kind. All that was pretty even. Then Tenks gained an upperhand. I'd hardly call that stomping. I'm referring exclusively to the last few pages of their battle(posted earlier.) Gotenks was stomping on Buu there. Prior to that, it was a stalemate.

Originally posted by juggerman
Buu still felt it no matter how suppressed it was. Not saying it makes sense but we are clearly told Buu knew about someone becoming stronger than him. He didn't even know it was Gohan since he laughed when he recognized Gohan. He just felt power and knew he needed to absorb Gotenks As I mentioned to AuraAngel: despite Mystic Gohan being heavily suppressed on the Kaioshin world, and when he first arrived on earth, the spike Buu sensed when Gohan powered up from base to Mystic may have been enough to make him start thinking that Gohan could potentially become more powerful than himself. He couldn't have possibly sensed Gohan's full-power, though, because Gohan didn't power up until right before they fought.

In fact, the wtf/baffled look on Buu's face when Mystic Gohan actually did power up, tells me that he had no clue what Gohan was really capable of:
http://i.imgur.com/2Xzl3xr.png

Originally posted by juggerman
Yes I know that know. As I've said my reason for supporting Buu as the stronger of the two was based on a mis translated quote. Cool beans.

Originally posted by Galan007
I'm referring exclusively to the last few pages of their battle(posted earlier.) Gotenks was stomping on Buu there. Prior to that, it was a stalemate.

That was a small part of the fight and it's very common in DBZ for a weaker character to get the upperhand on a stronger one. For example Vegeta was beating the hell out of Recoome at first. Now if the fight had suddenly ended right there, we'd think Vegeta would roll Recoome. The problem with the Buu/Gotenks fight was it was even and then gained the upperhand for a few moments and then the fight ended. Buu could have countered and gotten the upperhand himself if it had continued. I just don't see that brief push Gotenks got off meaning anything other than he got the advantage at that time.

Originally posted by Galan007
As I mentioned to AuraAngel: despite Mystic Gohan being heavily suppressed on the Kaioshin world, and when he first arrived on earth, the spike Buu sensed when Gohan powered up from base to Mystic may have been enough to make him start thinking that Gohan could potentially become more powerful than himself. He couldn't have possibly sensed Gohan's full-power, though, because Gohan didn't power up until right before they fought.

In fact, the wtf/baffled look on Buu's face when Mystic Gohan actually did power up, tells me that he had no clue what Gohan was really capable of:
http://i.imgur.com/2Xzl3xr.png

This is interesting but can be explained by the fact Buu didn't know who exactly that power was coming from. He felt it and knew he needed absorbtion. But when Gohan came Buu outright laughed at the idea of Gohan fighting him since Gohan went down to a much weaker Buu. Buu was suprized Gohan had that kind of power.

He could have also faked it too I guess. He could have known all along and was playing the part to not only buy time for the next fusion, but to also throw off any scent that he might be planning something. But he does state he knew about Gohan's power(even if he didn't know it came from Gohan himself) and we can't disregard that.

Originally posted by Galan007
Cool beans.

Can't win em all

Originally posted by juggerman
That was a small part of the fight and it's very common in DBZ for a weaker character to get the upperhand on a stronger one. For example Vegeta was beating the hell out of Recoome at first. Now if the fight had suddenly ended right there, we'd think Vegeta would roll Recoome. The problem with the Buu/Gotenks fight was it was even and then gained the upperhand for a few moments and then the fight ended. Buu could have countered and gotten the upperhand himself if it had continued. I just don't see that brief push Gotenks got off meaning anything other than he got the advantage at that time. The difference is that we have no legitimate reason to assume that Buu was more powerful than Gotenks. Buu had ample time in which he could have displayed his alleged superiority, but he never did. It was a complete stalemate until the very end, when Gotenks began stomping him.

Originally posted by juggerman
This is interesting but can be explained by the fact Buu didn't know who exactly that power was coming from. He felt it and knew he needed absorbtion. But when Gohan came Buu outright laughed at the idea of Gohan fighting him since Gohan went down to a much weaker Buu. Buu was suprized Gohan had that kind of power.

He could have also faked it too I guess. He could have known all along and was playing the part to not only buy time for the next fusion, but to also throw off any scent that he might be planning something. But he does state he knew about Gohan's power(even if he didn't know it came from Gohan himself) and we can't disregard that. I'm not saying we should disregard anything. I'm just saying that Buu could have only sensed Gohan's suppressed power, because he never powered up until he arrived on earth.

Originally posted by Galan007
The difference is that we have no legitimate reason to assume that Buu was more powerful than Gotenks. Buu had ample time in which he could have displayed his alleged superiority, but he never did. It was a complete stalemate until the very end, when Gotenks began stomping him.

I agree it was a stalemate, I just wouldn't say Gotenks was stomping at the end but that's just me.

Originally posted by Galan007
I'm not saying we should disregard anything. I'm just saying that Buu could have only sensed Gohan's suppressed power, because he never powered up until he arrived on earth.

His suppressed power made Buu quake in his boots tho. Gohan could have always suppressed it farther after he powered up on the Elder Kai world. Matter of fact didn't Piccolo not feel Gohan's power at first but noticed he was somehow different by the way he looked?

Originally posted by juggerman
I agree it was a stalemate, I just wouldn't say Gotenks was stomping at the end but that's just me. I think Gotenks was stomping him at the end, but I still view them as equals on average. I just don't think there's any reason to assume that Buu was stronger. /shrug

Originally posted by juggerman
His suppressed power made Buu quake in his boots tho. Gohan could have always suppressed it farther after he powered up on the Elder Kai world. Matter of fact didn't Piccolo not feel Gohan's power at first but noticed he was somehow different by the way he looked? I wouldn't say Gohan's power made Buu 'quake in his boots', at first. It did, however, make him recognize that someone existed who might have the potential to become more powerful than himself--so he came up with a plan to absorb Gotenks just in case he ever met this warrior:

Gohan: "...That was dirty, you bastard... You ingested the two of them into yourself..."
Buu: "...When I sensed your distant presence, I started up on this strategy... In case maybe, just maybe, there was anyone stronger than myself... Then I hit upon it: if I absorbed that 'Super Gotenks' squirt I was fighting at the time, then no matter what kind of guy appeared, my throne as the strongest would not be shaken..."


Piccolo knew *something* was different about Gohan's ki(and physical features):
http://i.imgur.com/3rCIHvN.jpg
...But he had no clue just how extensive these differences were until Gohan powered up.

Originally posted by Galan007
I think Gotenks was stomping him at the end, but I still view them as equals on average. I just don't think there's any reason to assume that Buu was stronger. /shrug

I wouldn't say Gohan's power made Buu 'quake in his boots', at first. It did, however, make him recognize that someone existed who might have the potential to become more powerful than himself--so he came up with a plan to absorb Gotenks just in case he ever met this warrior:

Gohan: "...That was dirty, you bastard... You ingested the two of them into yourself..."
Buu: "...When I sensed your distant presence, I started up on this strategy... In case maybe, just maybe, there was anyone stronger than myself... Then I hit upon it: if I absorbed that 'Super Gotenks' squirt I was fighting at the time, then no matter what kind of guy appeared, my throne as the strongest would not be shaken..."


Piccolo knew *something* was different about Gohan's ki(and physical features):
http://i.imgur.com/3rCIHvN.jpg
...But he had no clue just how extensive these differences were until Gohan powered up. Originally posted by Galan007
I think Gotenks was stomping him at the end, but I still view them as equals on average. I just don't think there's any reason to assume that Buu was stronger. /shrug

I wouldn't say Gohan's power made Buu 'quake in his boots', at first. It did, however, make him recognize that someone existed who might have the potential to become more powerful than himself--so he came up with a plan to absorb Gotenks just in case he ever met this warrior:

Gohan: "...That was dirty, you bastard... You ingested the two of them into yourself..."
Buu: "...When I sensed your distant presence, I started up on this strategy... In case maybe, just maybe, there was anyone stronger than myself... Then I hit upon it: if I absorbed that 'Super Gotenks' squirt I was fighting at the time, then no matter what kind of guy appeared, my throne as the strongest would not be shaken..."


Piccolo knew *something* was different about Gohan's ki(and physical features):
http://i.imgur.com/3rCIHvN.jpg
...But he had no clue just how extensive these differences were until Gohan powered up. i think buu wins here

Oh god, you're still a thing

Given that fact that Kid Buu needed to be hit with a massive spirit bombed, assisted by SSJ Goku; I don't think Gotenks has enough in the tank to end Super Buu.

I will admit that Gotenks did appear noticeably superior to Super Buu.

-edit-

I just found the chapter in which he fought Gotenks. Goku looked very sure he could kill Super Buu after Gotenks' fusion wore off inside him. Super Buu also looked very sure he was going to die, as well. This was actually Super Buu + Piccolo. Gotenks could actually win. I really don't know, now. It's a toss up.

-2nd edit-

That version of Super Buu had Piccolo, Goten and Trunks.

^ Goku confirmed that Super Buu was more powerful than he and Vegeta(to the point that Goku didn't even want to try and fight him):
http://i.imgur.com/P2Ya87gl.jpg

And when Buutenks reverted to Buuccolo, Goku stated that Gohan could defeat him--not that he could:
http://i.imgur.com/ZTnvrWul.jpg


So yeah, Super Buu was definitely more powerful than SSJ3 Goku... As was SSJ3 Gotenks.

Just to rub it in more:





Goku wanted to resort to fusion to defeat Super Buu

Yeah, I just finished reading the entire volume. I'm going back to my original statement that had Buu winning.

I originally skimmed over the chapter and assumed Buu was just afraid of Goku.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Goku confirmed that Super Buu was more powerful than he and Vegeta(to the point that Goku didn't even want to try and fight him):
http://i.imgur.com/P2Ya87gl.jpg

And when Buutenks reverted to Buuccolo, Goku stated that Gohan could defeat him--not that he could:
http://i.imgur.com/ZTnvrWul.jpg


So yeah, Super Buu was definitely more powerful than SSJ3 Goku... As was SSJ3 Gotenks.

Your last scan shows Goku as Super Saiyan 3. Did Goku fight this version of Buu like he did in the Anime?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P8j9amZxmKE

wait was he saying they were weaker than super buu or Buuhan?

Originally posted by carver9
Your last scan shows Goku as Super Saiyan 3. Did Goku fight this version of Buu like he did in the Anime?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P8j9amZxmKE

No he did not

Originally posted by bbrem123
wait was he saying they were weaker than super buu or Buuhan?

Both.

Originally posted by carver9
Your last scan shows Goku as Super Saiyan 3. Did Goku fight this version of Buu like he did in the Anime?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P8j9amZxmKE The only versions of Buu that Goku fought in the manga were Fat Buu and Pure Buu. Anything else is non-canon anime filler.

Originally posted by bbrem123
wait was he saying they were weaker than super buu or Buuhan? He was referring specifically to Super Buu, there.

As you can see on that page: Buu had just reverted from Buuhan, back into Super Buu... Hence Elder Kaioshin excitedly stating that Buu was changing back. Hence Goku noting that Buu was now much weaker than before(yet still more powerful than he and Vegeta.)

Pretty sure my answers were fine Galan

Originally posted by juggerman
Pretty sure my answers were fine Galan http://media4.onsugar.com/files/2013/09/06/879/n/1922283/39dc060b43411f9d_tumblr_mdcq02202j1rjamr7o1_500.xxxlarge.gif