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Sorry, this is my last dbz thread (for a while at least lol).

In dbz, when a character gets a boost in power, do they also get a proportional boost in speed? for example, do sayians also get a 50x increase in speed when the transform into a SS? would SS2 be twice as fast as a full power SS? etc

thanks.

From chapter 226.

http://i.imgur.com/maLu1ki.png

Context:

http://i.imgur.com/qFyaxmzm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/HK69171m.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/UvHV74Wm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/gCC6M3fm.jpg

no they do not always go hand and hand. A good example is Trunks in USSJ 2 form.

Massive size and strength. Decreased speed.

I know speed increases with kaio ken, but what about other amps like super saiyan?

Or how about if goku raises his base power level with training. does his base level speed increase proportionally as a result?

Originally posted by bbrem123
no they do not always go hand and hand. A good example is Trunks in USSJ 2 form.
In that case Trunks traded speed for power. But it's a good argument.

Originally posted by john allerdyce
I know speed increases with kaio ken, but what about other amps like super saiyan?

Or how about if goku raises his base power level with training. does his base level speed increase proportionally as a result?
The manga isn't conclusive on it, so it's up to interpretation.

I can't comment on all characters, but for Saiyans specifically, increased power definitely begets increased speed:
http://i.imgur.com/g0cj7YX.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/4u5TPiv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/z0GSiDz.jpg

Originally posted by Astner
In that case Trunks traded speed for power. But it's a good argument.


actually now that I think about it. The lose of speed was was really only due to his massive increase in size.

Seems like speed does increase with power when there is not an outside factor like that

^ Where Saiyans are concerned, their speed does increase in accordance with their PL. Trunks only became much slower after powering up, due to all the added mass/bulk he gained specifically from USSJ--as Goku noted after discovering USSJ himself:
http://i.imgur.com/EOoTvjc.jpg
...But that's not exactly your typical Saiyan transformation, either--it was more of a one-off. /shrug


After all, ASSJ Vegeta still gained a significant speed increase after powering up to that level, and he bulked up considerably. Here's a comparison...

Regular SSJ:
http://i.imgur.com/Bettz2J.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Cmn5VYz.jpg

ASSJ:
http://i.imgur.com/uHP1zyr.jpg


Bulking up past that level is when speed starts to get neutered(unless you're Broly.)

agreed

The answer is no, not directly. Iirc Goku even said during training that he was already powerful enough to beat Cell, but all the power in the universe couldn't help him if he didn't get to Cell's speed level.

The characters in DBZ use their ki to amplify ALL of their abilities, including perception, speed, strength, destructive capacity, durability, etc.

This is why most of the time, they will fight with ki bulking their strength and speed equally, but they are able to bulk up just their speed, sacrificing strength, or vice-versa. They have total control over it.

That's also why they can exert so much raw destructive force in the form of ki blasts, after they charge them up by standing still for a bit. Just like how Vegeta was keeping up with Cell, as Super Vegeta, but when he sacrificed his speed to try and do some damage, he managed to blow off half of Cell's body.

So yes, "power", as in ki capacity, DOES determine a persons speed. But strength does not. Only ki does.

Also, I'm assuming we're only talking DBZ here, and not any other anime's. That's why I'm relying on ki to explain here.

No.
Manga and Anime shown different concepts of this even the movies.

Recoome, Jeice, and Burter all had roughly equivalent power levels IIRC.

Recoome was physically stronger than all of them, Burter was faster, and Jeice presumably fell in-between.

This indicates that increases in power levels don't necessarily correlate perfectly with speed, or strength for that matter, at least as far as these individuals are concerned.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
The answer is no, not directly. Iirc Goku even said during training that he was already powerful enough to beat Cell, but all the power in the universe couldn't help him if he didn't get to Cell's speed level.

He said that after he powered up to USSJ, a point already covered by others before you. Normal SSJ/MSSJ, SSJ2 and SSJ3 do not have this drawback.

To put it simply

Higher power level=greater strength, speed, durability, destructive capacity, etc

Originally posted by Galan007
I can't comment on all characters, but for Saiyans specifically, increased power definitely begets increased speed:
http://i.imgur.com/g0cj7YX.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/4u5TPiv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/z0GSiDz.jpg

This.

Stated on panel.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Recoome, Jeice, and Burter all had roughly equivalent power levels IIRC.

Recoome was physically stronger than all of them, Burter was faster, and Jeice presumably fell in-between.

This indicates that increases in power levels don't necessarily correlate perfectly with speed, or strength for that matter, at least as far as these individuals are concerned. As far as mutants are concerned.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Recoome, Jeice, and Burter all had roughly equivalent power levels IIRC.

Recoome was physically stronger than all of them, Burter was faster, and Jeice presumably fell in-between.

This indicates that increases in power levels don't necessarily correlate perfectly with speed, or strength for that matter, at least as far as these individuals are concerned.

Recoome was boasting about his speed to Goku, though. Maybe it depends how they channel their speed?

Maybe the source books give them all power levels, but the most you could tell about them from the anime/manga is that Recoome, Jeice, and Burter are >>> pre zenkai Vegeta, and <<< Goku. Relative to each other, all we really know is the Captain outranks them all, and Guldo's beneath everybody.

Originally posted by cdtm
Recoome was boasting about his speed to Goku, though. Maybe it depends how they channel their speed?

Maybe the source books give them all power levels, but the most you could tell about them from the anime/manga is that Recoome, Jeice, and Burter are >>> pre zenkai Vegeta, and <<< Goku. Relative to each other, all we really know is the Captain outranks them all, and Guldo's beneath everybody. Well, there is this:
http://i.imgur.com/fhHMVBW.png

Unfortunately, I don't know the particular source those power levels are from. However, they seem very accurate when compared to the canon PLs we do know. For example:
-Gohan and Krillin stomped Guldo when their power levels were each stated to be "over 10,000." So Guldo having a PL of 10,000 makes sense.
-According to the Daizenshuu, Vegeta's PL was 30,000 when Recoome mercilessly stomped him. So Recoome having a PL of 40,000 makes sense.
-Burter/Jeice were each stated to be "around" Recoome's level. So 42,000/43,000 for them makes sense.
-Ginyu's PL is stated to be 120,000 in the manga, so we know that one is spot-on, at least.

This is the source. Although I'm not sure where it is from.

http://i.imgur.com/LGpxfQmm.jpg

Yeah, I cropped the PL's from that image. When I mentioned not knowing the source, I meant the source of that entire page.

Originally posted by Astner
This is the source. Although I'm not sure where it is from.

http://i.imgur.com/LGpxfQmm.jpg

I guess this explains the reason why Burta is faster than the other Ginyus (except Captain Ginyu who was obviously faster than Burta since he was able to tag Goku and keep up with his speed).

Personally I'd find it more interesting if things didn't line up exactly.

I.e. it'd be neat if there were characters who were, say, pl 40,000, but as strong as a 20k while fast as a 60k.

And Burtur's line about being fastest in the universe kinda fits that, but of course, aside from USSJ and bulky Cell, that never happens.


Dragonball Multiverse did a cool thing where they had Trunks switch back and forth between USSJ and ASSJ depending on whether he needed speed or raw power, all in mid fight.

Burta wasn't the fastest though. Goku was faster than him, much faster. Burta teamed with Jeice couldn't even touch Goku.

Originally posted by Q99
Personally I'd find it more interesting if things didn't line up exactly.

I.e. it'd be neat if there were characters who were, say, pl 40,000, but as strong as a 20k while fast as a 60k.

And Burtur's line about being fastest in the universe kinda fits that, but of course, aside from USSJ and bulky Cell, that never happens.


Dragonball Multiverse did a cool thing where they had Trunks switch back and forth between USSJ and ASSJ depending on whether he needed speed or raw power, all in mid fight. In a way, they kind of did that with Burter. In the manga, Krillin stated that Jeice/Burter had the same ki-level as Recoome:
http://i.imgur.com/YrN48eR.jpg
...But at most there was only a very slight difference between their respective power levels. Despite this, Burter was still faster than any member of the Ginyu Force(sans Captain Ginyu himself) by a wide margin.

He was also the largest/bulkiest member of the Ginyu Force:
http://i.imgur.com/LyzswJw.png
...Which obviously didn't hinder his speed at all.


But mutants also tend to be pretty f*cking illogical, even by DBZ standards. Hence Freeza(a mutant) reaching SSJG+-level power with only 4 months of training, lol. /shrug

Originally posted by carver9
Burta wasn't the fastest though. Goku was faster than him, much faster. Burta teamed with Jeice couldn't even touch Goku.

Um...

As Jonathan Lipnicki would say...

Nintendo-duh.

Originally posted by Galan007
In a way, they kind of did that with Burter. In the manga, Krillin stated that Jeice/Burter had the same ki-level as Recoome:
http://i.imgur.com/YrN48eR.jpg
...But at most there was only a very slight difference between their respective power levels. Despite this, Burter was still faster than any member of the Ginyu Force(sans Captain Ginyu himself) by a wide margin.


That's the thing, they talked about how fast he was, but it didn't show much. I don't really recall much sign that he's all that faster than Jeice, he just talked about speed more.

Did the comet ball or whatever move that was Jeice and Burta did, did thay happen in the Manga or is that all Anime?

Originally posted by Q99
That's the thing, they talked about how fast he was, but it didn't show much. I don't really recall much sign that he's all that faster than Jeice, he just talked about speed more. Well, the only time Burter even had a chance to showcase his speed was when Vegeta threw the Dragon Ball:
http://i.imgur.com/WGNQ0Hvm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/dIF7hcDm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Z3WYd8Om.jpg

Aside from that, his only other showings were against Goku(who was obviously FAR beyond him.)

But even Captain Ginyu wanked Burter's speed:
http://i.imgur.com/jabssiB.png

Even though we know the Captain himself was faster, it's clear that Burter's specialty was speed. If Jeice/Recoome would have been equal in that area, such an emphasis wouldn't have been placed solely on Burter.

Originally posted by carver9
Did the comet ball or whatever move that was Jeice and Burta did, did thay happen in the Manga or is that all Anime? Jeice's "Crusher Ball", you mean? That scene was shown in the manga as well:
http://i.imgur.com/ekoJqx0m.jpg http://i.imgur.com/55kztXwm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/02cTmIfm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/HnD5BlSm.jpg

That is the *only* energy attack they tried to use against Goku in the manga, though.

I think they were talking about Burta flight speed rather than his combat speed. I guess Burta and Jeice didn't do that move where they spun around in a circle at super speed turning their body into energy in the manga. Dang!!!