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Kind of a "What If" from early Dragon Ball.

Jackie Chun vs young Oozaru Goku. No moon exploding, and no tail cutting.

Jackie did seem pretty certain he could kill Goku with his best Kamehameha..

During that period, both Roshi and Goku had a PL of 180. This means Goku's PL as an Oozaru=1,800(which is > Raditz, btw.) So unless Roshi's moon-buster packed upwards of 10x his baseline PL, then it *shouldn't* have been able to do much against Oozaru Goku directly.

After all, the difference between Kamiccolo and Imperfect Cell was FAR less than 10x, yet Cell tanked Piccolo's all-out Light Grenade w/o sustaining so much as a scratch:
http://i.imgur.com/kOB9tod.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/sbgvZ7u.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/oCHZ7PT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/s5g3TQy.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ezBgXzM.jpg

We saw the same type of thing with 50% Freeza vs. SSJ Goku:
http://i.imgur.com/3XMy5Cy.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dfPjmpp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/USQ2I9Q.jpg
And again: the difference between them wasn't remotely close to 10x.

There are other examples, but you get the picture... But who knows, maybe Roshi's moon-buster was over 10x his baseline. /shrug

Best avatar/sig combo yet Galan!

Thanks! Had to change my Jaco set when I was informed that some thief on another forum had stolen them. srsly

I know it's not canon, but how strong would that make Arale for tossing him around in Oozaru form?

Yeah, on feats she's ridiculous, but cracking the Earth also means less in a gag manga.. But past the toon force one offs, I wonder how strong Toriyama "really" thinks Arale is relative to Goku?

In the Dragon Ball: Bouken Special (1987), Toriyama was asked how a battle between Goku and Arale would go. His response: "If Goku and Arale fought, Arale would probably be stronger than Goku." Since this statement was made during the Piccolo Daimao-era, it puts Goku's PL at 260.

That said, the word "probably" implies that the difference between Goku and Arale was marginal. So if I had to guess, I'd say Arale's PL(sans toon-force) would have been ~300.

Originally posted by Galan007
During that period, both Roshi and Goku had a PL of 180. This means Goku's PL as an Oozaru=1,800(which is > Raditz, btw.) So unless Roshi's moon-buster packed upwards of 10x his baseline PL, then it *shouldn't* have been able to do much against Oozaru Goku directly.

After all, the difference between Kamiccolo and Imperfect Cell was FAR less than 10x, yet Cell tanked Piccolo's all-out Light Grenade w/o sustaining so much as a scratch:
http://i.imgur.com/kOB9tod.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/sbgvZ7u.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/oCHZ7PT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/s5g3TQy.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ezBgXzM.jpg

We saw the same type of thing with 50% Freeza vs. SSJ Goku:
http://i.imgur.com/3XMy5Cy.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dfPjmpp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/USQ2I9Q.jpg
And again: the difference between them wasn't remotely close to 10x.

There are other examples, but you get the picture... But who knows, maybe Roshi's moon-buster was over 10x his baseline. /shrug

To be honest that kinda stuff does fluctuate, mostly based on whether or not the party in question was surprised. Tien could force Semi-Perfect Cell down for a little while and Piccolo straight up killed Raditz with his attack at a low power level.

The question here is whether Roshi could beat the Ozaru without cutting the tail. My first instinct tells me that the moon is a bit tougher than a monkey who had it's tail cut by scissors but the tail is the weakspot so maybe it is just super super vulnerable there. I also considered whether Roshi could conceivably dodge Goku's attacks in this form. Again I thought no but Grandpa Gohan seemed aware of the Ozaru form so it is possible that he did avoid it(he was an acrobatic guy).

In the end context favors Roshi. Goku is distracted by just rampaging so Roshi gets a free hit on his back, which he could totally pull off. Even if Goku survived it his tail would likely get caught by the attack and it would hurt him long enough for Yamcha to grapple the tail again. Goku just really isn't experienced enough with this form to do anything about it.

Though one could argue that the Oozaru mode is designed to take blasts like that since Saiyans specialize in conquest. Even a peaceful world like Namek could produce better fighters than Roshi. Then again Roshi just now battled a chunk of Freeza's army so I dunno what to think any more.

*eats banana*

Originally posted by AuraAngel
To be honest that kinda stuff does fluctuate, mostly based on whether or not the party in question was surprised. Tien could force Semi-Perfect Cell down for a little while and Piccolo straight up killed Raditz with his attack at a low power level. Tien wasn't harming Cell at all--just pushing him down. Additionally, the Shin Kikoho is about the most powerful attack a single character can generate in DB. It's haxx AF.

Raditz had been weakened by Gohan's amped headbutt, and he was also being restrained by Goku.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
The question here is whether Roshi could beat the Ozaru without cutting the tail. My first instinct tells me that the moon is a bit tougher than a monkey who had it's tail cut by scissors but the tail is the weakspot so maybe it is just super super vulnerable there. I also considered whether Roshi could conceivably dodge Goku's attacks in this form. Again I thought no but Grandpa Gohan seemed aware of the Ozaru form so it is possible that he did avoid it(he was an acrobatic guy).

In the end context favors Roshi. Goku is distracted by just rampaging so Roshi gets a free hit on his back, which he could totally pull off. Even if Goku survived it his tail would likely get caught by the attack and it would hurt him long enough for Yamcha to grapple the tail again. Goku just really isn't experienced enough with this form to do anything about it.

Though one could argue that the Oozaru mode is designed to take blasts like that since Saiyans specialize in conquest. Even a peaceful world like Namek could produce better fighters than Roshi. Then again Roshi just now battled a chunk of Freeza's army so I dunno what to think any more.

*eats banana* Yeah, it's hard to say how Oozaru Goku would have coped with the blast. An attack several times less powerful than himself just wouldn't have done anything, though. Imo.

You don't think Roshi moon buster would've did anything to Goku at that stage Galan?

Not unless Oozaru Goku was preoccupied when the blast struck him(which is entirely possible.)

Sneak attack...but if he braced for the attack, nothing would happen. Makes sense. Wonder if this form was more powerful than Raditz.

Originally posted by carver9
Sneak attack...but if he braced for the attack, nothing would happen. Makes sense. Wonder if this form was more powerful than Raditz.

Originally posted by Galan007
During that period, both Roshi and Goku had a PL of 180. This means Goku's PL as an Oozaru=1,800(which is > Raditz, btw.)

Goku's base PL at the time=180. Oozaru gleans a 10x increase. This puts Oozaru Goku's PL at 1,800.

Raditz' PL=1,500.

Every character in DBZ showed the ability to up their power level. I wonder if Raditz was capable of doing this but just didn't get the chance to do it.

Raditz was shocked that Goku and Piccolo could raise their ki(and focus their blasts.) I don't think he would've had the same reaction if it was something he could also do. /shrug

True

Originally posted by Galan007
Raditz was shocked that Goku and Piccolo could raise their ki(and focus their blasts.) I don't think he would've had the same reaction if it was something he could also do. /shrug

IIRC Vegeta also more or less confirm in his fight with Kiwi or was it Dodoria, that he had learned to hid his powerlevel while on Earth? plus the scouters that ran into Krillin and Gohan was also taken completely by surprise.

It was Kiwi.

And yeah, Freeza and his henchmen originally had no clue that ki-concealment was even possible.

Originally posted by Galan007
Goku's base PL at the time=180. Oozaru gleans a 10x increase. This puts Oozaru Goku's PL at 1,800.

Raditz' PL=1,500.

Goku eating a common laser throws a monkey wrench into it, though. In addition to also taking one from a weakened Piccolo, plus the implication a heavyweight like Nappa could have been killed by various attacks when distracted/stunned.

Gohan seemed to tank Vegeta's best attacks, though. Even depleted, he should be stronger then a beam laser. Do Oozaru's even let their guard down? Or do they only erect defenses in response to a threat?

Can they be ambushed?

^ It's impossible to say one way or the other. Aside from becoming 10x more powerful, Oozarus have appeared too few times to know much about them.

Basically it seemed to me like the only Oozaru capable of fighting was Vegeta. And this is because he maintained his consciousness. The other Oozaru's were just rampaging, shooting off all their power, and destroying everything around them. They weren't really trying to protect themselves at all. Even Goku against Roshi, Oozaru Goku wasn't trying to fight Roshi, he was trying to destroy EVERYTHING, lol.

I think that the Oozaru's probably can't control their ki very well, if at all, without training. That might have been why Goku never used any Chou Makouhou blasts as a child Oozaru.

Anyway, Roshi seemed pretty confident that he could have taken Goku out. And who knows, maybe he could have buffed himself enough with Max power form, and with charging his kamehameha to actually do so. But the only PL we've seen from him is 139, and he was supposedly a 180 against Kid Goku. If that's true, then there's absolutely no way that Roshi could have done anything to Oozaru kid Goku, unless he somehow knew Kaioken or something. That's just way too big of a gap in power levels. Even without paying attention to Roshi, Goku's sheer durability would tank the blast like it was nothing. Which is crazy, given that it was a moon busting attack.