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Rules

Power Level & Format: 2-character amalgam. Low Herald each.

Post Limit: 5

CIS & PIS is OFF!: We are drafting 2 characters, and its abilities. You the participant take ownership of how said characters & abilities will be realized in combat.

Character Knowledge: Contestants are fully aware the characters drafted, including its history, and weaknesses.
Also the Amalgam can use powers as good as the originals.

Amping Rules: Disallowed. Materials that aid a power (i.e. Jeffries/adamantium) are allowed. Power amping is not (i.e. The Ray + Kara)

Note: Amping is a state of empowerment fueled by some source source, that increases a characters physical prowess or ability.


Tech Creation & Non-Autonomous Constructs/Summons: Low Herald limit.

No you can not summon an entire realm or dimension.

You are in control of the character, but you are also confined to what that character has accomplished historically.

You can't borrow feats from someone else, even if your similar characters.

Example:
X-Man can not Borrow Feats Cable.
G.L. Hal can not Borrow Feats from G.L. John.


Prep: You are given time to raise shields. Otherwise NO prep time.

Creating gear can only take place in the heat of battle, after the bell has rung.

TP: Low Herald

Speed: Up to lightspeed.

Banned Powers: Reality Warp, Time Manip., Duplication, Power Copying, Autonomous Constructs (tech or magic), Memory Retention

Note: Space Manipulation, Matter Manipulation, and the Speed Force is allowed provided that the drafted characters are low herald and below.

Functional Immortals are Banned: Functional immortals such as Lobo, Mr. Immortal, Deadpool are disallowed or voided.


Standard Gear Rule Character comes in with what he is historically known for caring.

Non standard gear must be created you NOT grab it from your lab, and equip yourself with it.

BFR BFR is banned.

Self BFR is only good for phasing.

Good for 1 second.

The Final Draft


http://www.cinemablend.com/images/sections/63436/Ultimate_Warrior_63436.jpg


leonidas: Absolon Mercator & Forge


Scoobless: Amora, the Enchantress & Ultimate Thor


Werewolf582: Vulcan & Lightray


Martian_mind: Forerunner & Apocalypse


Ambient: The Darkness & Asylum


beatboks: Arion & Animal Man


abhilegend: Jade Starheart & Ronan


psycho gundam: Iron Man & Soranik Natu


LordofBrooklyn: Zauriel & Nova Prime


DarkSaint: Winter & Mortal Hercules

Judges:
Sin I AM
Digi
quanchi112 (Back up judge/participant)
Board Walker
The Nuul
JayDaDon
krisblaze
Bentley
SquallX
Supermutant
Prof. T.C McAbe
Blair Wind
long pig

Participants:
Leonidas
Scoobless
Werewolf582
Martian_mind
Ambient
beatboks
abhilegend
psycho gundam
LordofBrooklyn
DarkSaint

Im interested.

Looks enchanting

It is time I established my dominance here as well!

What makes this tourney so "official"?

Hmm?



JK.

Interested

Probably not interested, but I'm usually happy to judge, so long as there's an acceptably large rotation of judges. Gl getting everything off the ground, and let me know if I can help with support or rulings in any way.

Interested

Open drafting is fine, but who has the final word on which character is or is not "low herald"?

Draft one at a time in some kind of order, then reverse for second draft? or.... something else?

2 seperate drafts first come first serve.
Questionable drafts are forwarded to the judges.
If the judges are undecided.
The draft is forwaded to the contastents to be voteded on. Majority Vote (2/3) to approve the draft.

I'm down low/ mid herald is my ball park.

I'm in.

intrigued.

Ill be sending out pms to invite some folks, and narrow down who wants to judge or participate.....IN THIS MEGA EVENT OF GLADIATORS!

I'd like an idea of other people's idea of the cap for low herald.

Last couple go arounds have shown a wide degree of division on the topic.

here's the list of low heralds. can we just look at it and say who on the list is outright banned? personally, i have no problem with ANYONE on the list, for the record (the differences between low/mid herald are marginal in many cases and a strict delineation is damn near impossible). but if people have issue with individuals, get them out now, BEFORE they are drafted. id, anyone you want to outright ban before the discussion even starts? i'm in favor of simplicity. if one person doesn't like someone, REMOVE him. no need to defend picks. we'll all have access to the same remaining pool. and no questioning id. if he bans someone, so be it. that said, here's the list. air your grievances or forever hold your tongue!

Absorbing Man, Air Walker, Animal Man, Apocalypse, Apollo, Aquaman (DCNU), Argent, The Atom, Aztek, Breach, Cassandra Nova, Cir-El, Damage, Darkness, Darwin, Death's Head 3.0, Death Metal, Doomsday (DOS), Doctor Doom, Dr. Invincible, Dr. Light, Dr. Light II (Kimiyo Hoshi), Dr. Polaris, Drax The Destroyer, Enchantress, Engineer, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Forerunner, Gammid, Gilgamesh, Gold Key Solar, Gorilla Grodd, Graviton, Green Lantern (Soranik Natu), Guardian I (James Hudson), He-Man, Hector Hammond, Hercules (Immortal), Iceman, Invincible, Iron Man, Isis, Jade, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Jack of Hearts, Jericho, Kalibak, Kang, Krypto, Lightray, Living Monolith, Loki (Ultimate), Lunatik, Madison Jeffries (BOX IV), Magneto (U), Major Force, Makkari, Man-Beast, Manchester Black, Marrina (Leviathan), Mar-Vell, Matrix Supergirl, Meggan, Mongul, Monica Rambeau (Pulsar), Mr. M, Nimrod, Nova (Frankie Raye), Nova Richard Rider (current), Plastic Man, Power Girl, Prime, Professor X, Raven, Ravenous, The Ray, Red Tornado, Ronan the Accuser, Saturn Girl, Selene (External), Shadow King, Snowbird, Starhawk, Starman, Super Skrull, Stryfe, Superboy, Tempest, Thor (Ultimate), Ultra Boy, Ultra-Humanite, Ultron, Union, Vulcan, Wendigo, Winter, Witchfire (Normal), Zauriel

incidentally, here is the high meta tier as well. some of these guys are certainly suitable picks. anyone have issue with any of THESE guys??

Abomination, Aquaman, Ares (Marvel), Atlas, Aurora, Batman 1 Million, Battalion (Jackson King), Blastaar, BOX I (Roger Bochs), Captain Britain, Captain Marvel Jr, Colossus, Crystal, Death's Head II, Donna Troy, Emma Frost, Gamora, Ghost Rider II, Grim Reaper, Guardian II (Heather Hudson), Havok, Hellstrike, Hercules (Mortal), Holocaust, The Human Torch, Invisible Woman, Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Jenny Sparks, Juggernaut (Depowered), Karate Kid, Living Laser, Machine Man, Manbot, Mandarin, Mary Marvel, Maul, Mercer Drake, Metallo, Mimic (Exiles), Miss Martian, Mr. Fantastic, Mr. Sinister, Namor the Sub-Mariner, Nico Minoru, Nightshade, Northstar, Ocean Master, Osiris, Pitt, Polaris, Psylocke, Radioactive Man, Sand, Sasquatch, Shassa, She-Hulk, Spiral, Starfire, Storm, Supernova, Temugin, The Thing, Thunderstrike, The Tick, Ulik, Ultimo, Vision, War Machine, Windshear, Wonder Man, Zzaxx

From the previous two tournies these are the ones that stood out. Vulcan, Gravitron, Doomsday, and Nova Prime.

Why is Ultron low Herald?

certain versions of him are. if someone selected him, it would have to be THAT version and it would need to be specified.

anyway, id, are you banning those 4? werewolf want ultron banned?

No I was just making sure this isn't the same ultron who can take on the entire avengers roster and win.

As long as it's specified which version of Ultron that is being used, and as long as it's in the Low Herald range, then I don't mind.

I would also question Darkness. Which is a shit because hed be one of my first picks on there

Oh and there would need to be a stipulation on An I mal man that certain showings are banned. Foe example rot world showing where he matched a weakened Flash in speed

flash's can be fine though--garrick and others are ok picks. many of the rules would limit animal man's more....troublesome abilities taken to their nth degrees.

i don't care of darkness is banned or not. everyone seems to be hinting at characters they 'may' have a problem with. this is id's show, but for my part in this, i'd rather you just come right out and say BAN ANIMAL MAN, or BAN GRAVITON.

in fact, i'll go ahead and say that--BAN GRAVITON. some of the showings he had appeared to place him well above almost everyone at one time or another. so, i think graviton should be out.

I would say ban apocalypse.

Originally posted by Werewolf582
Why is Ultron low Herald?

It's an old list
Originally posted by "Id"
From the previous two tournies these are the ones that stood out. Vulcan, Gravitron, Doomsday, and Nova Prime.

Yeah

What Flash is low herald or under besides Jay? Bart? Certainly not Wally or Barry. At least pre-FP.

I am going to round up the judges, and participants. I am also going to reach out to members who would like to join.

The more the merrier.

Ill post an update, with a list after the weekend.


Originally posted by leonidas


anyway, id, are you banning those 4? werewolf want ultron banned?

I was going to leave it up for debate, as those draw some concern.

But you voiced your opinion on Gravitron. He is on the NoNo list.

I am going to set my foot down on Doomsday.

Originally posted by Digi
What Flash is low herald or under besides Jay? Bart? Certainly not Wally or Barry. At least pre-FP.

You have others that use the speed force, like Max Mercury and Jesse Chambers.

So out of curiosity are we I only limited to the tier list??
there are plenty of characters who arent listed at all.

Absorbing Man, Air Walker, Animal Man, Apocalypse, Apollo, Aquaman (DCNU), Argent, The Atom, Aztek, Breach, Cassandra Nova, Cir-El, Damage, Darkness, Darwin, Death's Head 3.0, Death Metal, Doomsday (DOS), Doctor Doom, Dr. Invincible, Dr. Light, Dr. Light II (Kimiyo Hoshi), Dr. Polaris, Drax The Destroyer, Enchantress, Engineer, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Forerunner, Gammid, Gilgamesh, Gold Key Solar, Gorilla Grodd, Graviton, Green Lantern (Soranik Natu), Guardian I (James Hudson), He-Man, Hector Hammond, Hercules (Immortal), Iceman, Invincible, Iron Man, Isis, Jade, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Jack of Hearts, Jericho, Kalibak, Kang, Krypto, Lightray, Living Monolith, Loki (Ultimate), Lunatik, Madison Jeffries (BOX IV), Magneto (U), Major Force, Makkari, Man-Beast, Manchester Black, Marrina (Leviathan), Mar-Vell, Matrix Supergirl, Meggan, Mongul, Monica Rambeau (Pulsar), Mr. M, Nimrod, Nova (Frankie Raye), Nova Richard Rider (current), Plastic Man, Power Girl, Prime, Professor X, Raven, Ravenous, The Ray, Red Tornado, Ronan the Accuser, Saturn Girl, Selene (External), Shadow King, Snowbird, Starhawk, Starman, Super Skrull, Stryfe, Superboy, Tempest, Thor (Ultimate), Ultra Boy, Ultra-Humanite, Ultron, Union, Vulcan, Wendigo, Winter, Witchfire (Normal), Zauriel

incidentally, here is the high meta tier as well. some of these guys are certainly suitable picks. anyone have issue with any of THESE guys??

Abomination, Aquaman, Ares (Marvel), Atlas, Aurora, Batman 1 Million, Battalion (Jackson King), Blastaar, BOX I (Roger Bochs), Captain Britain, Captain Marvel Jr, Colossus, Crystal, Death's Head II, Donna Troy, Emma Frost, Gamora, Ghost Rider II, Grim Reaper, Guardian II (Heather Hudson), Havok, Hellstrike, Hercules (Mortal), Holocaust, The Human Torch, Invisible Woman, Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Jenny Sparks, Juggernaut (Depowered), Karate Kid, Living Laser, Machine Man, Manbot, Mandarin, Mary Marvel, Maul, Mercer Drake, Metallo, Mimic (Exiles), Miss Martian, Mr. Fantastic, Mr. Sinister, Namor the Sub-Mariner, Nico Minoru, Nightshade, Northstar, Ocean Master, Osiris, Pitt, Polaris, Psylocke, Radioactive Man, Sand, Sasquatch, Shassa, She-Hulk, Spiral, Starfire, Storm, Supernova, Temugin, The Thing, Thunderstrike, The Tick, Ulik, Ultimo, Vision, War Machine, Windshear, Wonder Man, Zzaxx

Just bringing this forward from page 1 to save people havi g to go back and forth

Originally posted by beatboks
So out of curiosity are we I only limited to the tier list??
there are plenty of characters who arent listed at all.

No you are not limited to the tier list.

Originally posted by beatboks
So out of curiosity are we I only limited to the tier list??
there are plenty of characters who arent listed at all.

Outside the tier list has historically been fine. Best to vet it through Id or others, though, if it's rather obscure.

Originally posted by "Id"
You have others that use the speed force, like Max Mercury and Jesse Chambers.

Ah. I consider them in the family, but not Flashes per se. But sure. They don't have access to some of the haxx stuff that Wally, Barry, and to a lesser extent Bart do. So they'd likely be ok.

No one with a GL ring

Where does Dracula tier?

I see dont see him on any of the tierings...

probably high meta imo.

Momentum, people. These things die without it.

When would drafting begin? Give people a loose schedule and we can keep things moving.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Momentum, people. These things die without it.

When would drafting begin? Give people a loose schedule and we can keep things moving.

I agree with scoobz.

Is their a set drafting day yet? And do we have all the participants we need or are we.still waiting for a couple more people?

Originally posted by "Id"
I am going to round up the judges, and participants. I am also going to reach out to members who would like to join.

The more the merrier.

Ill post an update, with a list after the weekend.




I was going to leave it up for debate, as those draw some concern.

But you voiced your opinion on Gravitron. He is on the NoNo list.

I am going to set my foot down on Doomsday.

I will be one of the judges

Ban Creel

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Ban Creel

Lol. Good call. The "Jeffries/Adamantium" rule becomes scary as sh*t once you start to factor Creel in. One of the alternate ideas that I had for the last mini-tourney with similar rules involved Creel and .

Then again, if you want to allow those sorts of combos...



But most are too proud. Now that he's been mentioned, they'd be honor-bound to pick someone else. I'm the same way, so no judgement.

Originally posted by Digi
Lol. Good call. The "Jeffries/Adamantium" rule becomes scary as sh*t once you start to factor Creel in. One of the alternate ideas that I had for the last mini-tourney with similar rules involved Creel and .

Then again, if you want to allow those sorts of combos...



But most are too proud. Now that he's been mentioned, they'd be honor-bound to pick someone else. I'm the same way, so no judgement.

Exactly. Creel plus any fictional metal and a half way decent brain behind him is definitely too OP. Kinda wanna say plastic man too but meh...doubt anyone would pick him

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Exactly. Creel plus any fictional metal and a half way decent brain behind him is definitely too OP. Kinda wanna say plastic man too but meh...doubt anyone would pick him
meh he he he, Plaaastiic maaan
Bwah hu hu huh

If you still have room, I'm interested.

Judges
Sin I AM
Digi
psycho gundam (back up judge/participant)
Board Walker

Participants
leonidas
Blair Wind
Scoobless
beatboks
Martian_mind
LordofBrooklyn
Werewolf582



Decent list. I would like more judges. Let me send out more invites, to see if we can get more support. And we will get the ball rolling.

Judges
Sin I AM
Digi
psycho gundam (back up judge/participant)
Board Walker

Participants
leonidas
Blair Wind
Scoobless
beatboks
Martian_mind
LordofBrooklyn
Werewolf582
Abhilegend


Last minute update, Abhi will be participating.

I sent out mass invites in hopes of gaining more interest. I am going to let those invites, and replies sit until this Thursday. And I will finalize the list on Friday and move forward.

These tournaments are fun to be in. But they are only good if we have enough traction to keep it moving, and backed by proper support. I want to thank everyone for their support.

Yeah, plus most of the participants have proven reliability in these tourneys

You do, however, need lots more judges.

LOTS more..... with...this many people CLAIMING interest, that will be a lot of matches. this will take a long time to complete and will require tons of judges who are committed to reading and ruling in short order....

Leo have you not learned? Fear is your friend!

PS We have more judges on the way.

Alright, I would like to judge. Let's do this.

Id like to judge. First time judging this so PM me any important details please.

Love the support!

I'm away until saturday but can judge after that.

I won't bail on the final match like I did with Leo's most recent one.

Promise!

I'm in to judge this since the player rooster seems to be healthy enough at this point. I know from experience it's very difficult to scout for judges so I hope there will be more of us involved.

Originally posted by Bentley
I'm in to judge this since the player rooster seems to be healthy enough at this point. I know from experience it's very difficult to scout for judges so I hope there will be more of us involved.

lol ... "rooster"

http://cdn.whatanart.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/zodiac-rooster-football-player.jpg

Judges
Sin I AM
Digi
psycho gundam (back up judge/participant)
Board Walker
The Nuul
JayDaDon
krisblaze
Bentley

Participants
leonidas
Blair Wind
Scoobless
beatboks
Martian_mind
LordofBrooklyn
Werewolf582
Abhilegend
Supermutant

So are you happy with numbers?
When do we start drafting?
Also you said first in best dressed, does the order we get in for first pick determine the order for second by being in reverse (just to keep it "fair" anyone who got to pick before anyone else for one part of their amalgam gets to pick their second after all have done so)

Draft will take place this monday the 6th.

It will be for the first draft.
Once that raps up, the 2nd draft will follow up.
Both drafts will be first come first serve.

When abouts are the matches starting? I need to be out of town from July 9th to 12th.

Is there a certain time to send our drafts? Or do we.just send it sometime that day?

Some people have different time zones so I was just wondering.

Also question about TP.

The limit is Emma, but are we still allowed to have someone who is above her TP as long as we don't use the TP offensively?

We will have a seperate topic just for drafts.
Monday the 6th 8 am central time (chicago-ill)

you gonna reveal them as they come in so people don't wait 8 hours then send you a repeat and then have to pick again...?

No.

Open draft on a diffrent thread.

First come first.

Il have it premade, pined, and locked.

Ill ask the mods if they can open at the propper time.

ah, open. gotcha.

also, no one else wants anyone on the lists banned, correct? we have...graviton, doomsday and creel banned. is that it? speak now or forever hold your pieces b!tches....

oh, and of course drafting anyone below the low herald tier is fine, correct?

Anything low herald and bellow is fair game.

Others from the list that bear consideration:

Atom
Doom (lol. A relic of the tier list's age. He's an obvious ban)
Green Lantern(s)
Shadow King (can go entirely into astral plane)

doom was a given i assumed--i actually thought he'd been bumped to mid herald...

lanterns, eh? they have some easily exploitable weaknesses against the right guys, but...whatever. i think going full on astral would be self bfr, no?

same if atom went too small and stayed there....? maybe. few people are actually voicing any issues or concerns in this thread. that's cool so long as no one b!tches later....

Originally posted by Werewolf582
I would say ban apocalypse.

And I would also toss up Exodus for debate.

Originally posted by leonidas
few people are actually voicing any issues or concerns in this thread. that's cool so long as no one b!tches later....

Anyone Leo wants, I want them banned. He routinely gets away with suspect picks. Spiral. Braniac 8 (Indigo). He's a cheat.

Snowbird isn't low herald either. That list should be amended

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Anyone Leo wants, I want them banned. He routinely gets away with suspect picks. Spiral. Braniac 8 (Indigo). He's a cheat.



pfft.

seriously, b8 would get crushed by most in the low herald tier and spiral is all over the map with her showings... i would never draft her for this level by herself, though she could be a solid part of an amalgam, no doubt.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Snowbird isn't low herald either. That list should be amended

her showings fluctuate greatly. for the most part i think she's in the right place. she would be easy to get into this thing.

GLs are more because of their potential when merged with someone else. Technically their are plenty of low herald GLs that wouldn't break the caps, in and of themselves. But give, say, Optimus Prime a GL ring, and the tourney is essentially over. Anyone who posts a video of "The Touch" would receive my vote with no other arguments, and I'm only half joking.

I said I wanted GL rings banned on pge 2 you blind f**kers.

If shadow king can survive the death of his body he would fall under the "no immortal characters" rule, right?


There's probably a bunch of dubious picks people will try to get in the drafts, we'll have to deal with the others as they appoear.

there really shouldn't be many picks that are suspect imo. characters can't amp each other, and really aside from those mentioned, (and i really don't care of they were all allowed) there shouldn't be any problems with characters that i can foresee--unless someone brings someone right out of left field who is a relative unknown of course....

GL Rings are to be outright banned, but what of the New Gods, and Heralds of Galactus?

Who are the Low Herald GLs, and do they pose a greater threat than say Nova or Lightray?

I would like to include Low Herald GLs, as they do have define limits and can be counterd by other picks. But ultimately its comes to you guys.

Which Galactus heralds are low herald? Terrax? I can't think of many others. Even Firelord has feats that make him dubious at this level.

No, low herald GLs don't pose a greater threat than many others. It's more about giving their ring to someone who's instantly a high herald with them, either in willpower, scientific creativity, or both. Technically you could allow them and would probably be ok, but there are shenanigans to be had with them. On the other hand, it actually makes a pick like Batman viable, which, to me, is hilarious and awesome, and worth the price of admission. But I'm a judge, not a participant.

i think only the droid air walker would be ok as a herald of galactus at this level. as for the rings--i'm fine with or without. they have exploitable weaknesses as i said, and i think we can safely say a low level gl isn't using feats from hal, kyle, guy or any of the others...i'd think they would have a pretty limited collection of showings to draw from (though i know SOME low gl's still have one or 2 crazy good feats...)

we could use nova as the cap maybe? anyone able to take a majority from him (in id's opinion) is banned? just a thought. some folk like to have a hard cap...could lightray beat rich for a majority? not sure tbh....it would be close but lightray MAY have the better high end feats. maybe? /shrug

Nova (Frankie Raye) and Terrax are low Heralds

Creative members are going to search and find ways to exploit or maximize their drafts regardless if we ban GL Rings, Speed Force users etc..

My tournament encourages being creative in that form.

But if you guys want to put a ban on them, that's fine. I am more concerned on placing a Ban on characters that are Overpowered. Like Doomsday he clearly does not belong in this tournament, and would walk right through the Low Heralds.

He is OP, and makes going up against him unfair from the start by the nature of his Physical Prowess alone. Now pair him with another strong draft, and we have someone that breaks the tournament.

But drafting a GL like say Soranik Natu, and Jade are valid Low Heralds. Yet they are no more exploitable than say Terrax, or Lightray. The Power of Cosmic or the New God Tech (Mother Box) bring as much flexibility as the Green Lanterns.

In this case, we have a number of drafts that provide an even chance to play up a GL. And its not GL, New Gods, and Heralds. We have the psionics in this class (Exodus, Stryfe), Asgardians, Energy Manipulators (Classic Solar, Vulcan), Speed Force etc..

Just my two cents.

Judges
Sin I AM
Digi
psycho gundam (back up judge/participant)
Board Walker
The Nuul
JayDaDon
krisblaze
Bentley
SquallX


Participants
leonidas
Blair Wind
Scoobless
beatboks
Martian_mind
LordofBrooklyn
Werewolf582
Abhilegend
Supermutant

Standard Gear Rule: Character comes in with what he is historically known for caring.

Non standard gear must be created. You can NOT grab it from your lab, and equip yourself with it.

Prep Time: You can Raise Shields. Otherwise no preptime.

Creating gear can only take place in the heat of battle, after the bell has rung.


__________________________________________________
_______


We are almost there. I am going to compile a list of ban characters brought up by tomorrow. I will also compile a list of participants. Everything will be updated in the fist page, to make things easy, and accessible.

Lets penut-butter jelly this motherphucker

Not participating, but are there any BFR rules?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Not participating, but are there any BFR rules?

Spatial powers are allowed and BFR is a valid tactic this time around.

Vulcan is low herald? He was only allowed entry into the last tourney because Graviton and Doomsday were drafted against him.

About BFR... Is there a time limit? Like a 20 second ring out time? So that if someone bfrs you, you can return before you get counted out?

yeah, bfr'ing sucks arse. cheapest way to victory there is. personally, strongly opposed to it, but whatever everyone else wants. that does NOT mean someone can hang out in the astral plane all day though, correct?

and what about someone like manhunter (as example). his phasing isn't self bfr, correct? self bfr should only count if you're gone for more than a set amount of (brief) time...

as for vulcan--meh. he's legit low herald imo. galds is the definition of mid and he handed vulcan his head. of course he battled even with boltagon, so.... meh.

all this wrangling over guys and rules only opens further discussion and bannings. just pick and deal. sneer

Im not participating but some of these bans seem arbitrary. Nova and Vulcan? Are we just tossing people out 'just cause'?

The city level destruction limit also seems arbitrary given that some low heralds can probably destroy continents/planets

Originally posted by "Id"
Judges
Sin I AM
Digi
psycho gundam (back up judge/participant)
Board Walker
The Nuul
JayDaDon
krisblaze
Bentley
SquallX


Participants
leonidas
Blair Wind
Scoobless
beatboks
Martian_mind
LordofBrooklyn
Werewolf582
Abhilegend
Supermutant Phuck it. Might as well enter fully

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Phuck it. Might as well enter fully Read the thread over and the wanton banning killed my idea which was the motivation to fit this into my schedule....

BYE uhuh

Only two or three confirmed bans thus far.

There is no wanton banning. Doomsday, Doom and Creel are the only ones banned thus far. The thread "Id" pulled that list from is completely outdated and should be redone, I'm sure if someone asked nice enough Delph may do it. As is those characters aren't low herald anyway and should be banned. It's not fair to other posters.

creel has lost too many times to be higher ranked than low herald. doom is interesting. in straight 1on1, non-prepped scenarios, i don't really think doom is that far above many of those guys--he may not be as powerful as some.

i agree dd should NOT be low herald though.

so, are we forbidding anyone else?

Originally posted by leonidas
creel has lost too many times to be higher ranked than low herald. doom is interesting. in straight 1on1, non-prepped scenarios, i don't really think doom is that far above many of those guys--he may not be as powerful as some.

i agree dd should NOT be low herald though.

so, are we forbidding anyone else?

Check out digis argument for creel on page two too lazy to quote it but basically once he merges with anyone with halfway decent intelligence he will eclipse the herald tier.

And yes so far just three...

As far as doom i honestly think he's mid for varying reasons but can see your stance for low herald

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Read the thread over and the wanton banning killed my idea which was the motivation to fit this into my schedule....

BYE uhuh

Yeah like Sin mentioned, there is no wanton banning so far.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Check out digis argument for creel on page two too lazy to quote it but basically once he merges with anyone with halfway decent intelligence he will eclipse the herald tier.

And yes so far just three...

As far as doom i honestly think he's mid for varying reasons but can see your stance for low herald

Magneto claims Doom is the most powerful man on Earth... and Magneto is mid herald himself (right?)

powerful can mean a lot of things though. in terms of personal power, non prep? it would be interesting to see him in this and see someone use him then be forced to use scans from situations only where he had NO prep.

meh, he's banned i guess, so it doesn't matter, but i don't think he'd stand out in this more than many others...

as far as creel--i don't think we should be banning any one because of what they MIGHT become if amalgamated. that seems....the exact opposite of the point here. if he's low herald, he should be fair game. i don't think what he COULD become should be taken into account. if that's the case, we should likely look at banning several others as well... just my 2 cents. do whatever y'all feel needs doing.

There's a limit on post-amalgam power level anyway, no-one here should be taking more than 5/10 against Thor or the like after amalagamation

Good progress on judges, but imo still too few. If you want 5 per match, that's a ton of overlap for each judge. And once this hits, say, month 2-3, we can safely assume some no-shows, whoever they end up being. With PG entering, it's at 8, and I'd humbly council at least 12 before feeling comfortable, and ideally more. By FAR the most frequent factor that has killed tourneys completely is judging. Imo, it's as important as locking down dedicated participants. Both can cause drag, but there's more incentive for the participants who keep winning to show up for their next match.

Any limit, as in numbers regarding summon construct? Offensive matter manipulation allowed?

Originally posted by Ambient
Any limit, as in numbers regarding summon construct? Offensive matter manipulation allowed?

Building a robot army?

I'm planning to summon teh Transformers Constructicons Devastator.. 😅

Really just want clear rule regarding number of summons, case someone loopholes #### infinite construct..

Can we get a vote going on this BFR ruling?

Because, much like Leo, I am strongly opposed to it.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Can we get a vote going on this BFR ruling?

Because, much like Leo, I am strongly opposed to it.

But I wanna combine Blink and Access and throw everyone into alternate universes....

Someone mentioned twenty second rule on bfr which seems legit. If you have that much power at your disposal bfr really shouldn't be an issue, im just wary about dimension dumping; sun porting, etc. That would be annoying and cheap. Maybe relegate it to long distance (something a speedster or brick with jumping capacity can recover from? It'd suck to get hung up on bfr the entire match. If people have strong arguments for keeping creel and doom don't see y "id" wouldn't accept them back. Doomsday is a no brainer.

Also in regards to judging a rotating group of three per match should speed things up and not bog down threads. This isn't a grand jury indictment. Don't need every hand in the cookie jar.

As far as constructs id suggest going with what your characters have been shown to produce at that level. Bearing in mind the more u create the more tissue like durability they become.

Summoning is a difficult avenue because every mage worth his/her salt summons above their paygrade. Id say you could only summon creatures below yourself with a limit on how many high, mid and low meta level demons or whatever you can have in play.

I'm not fighting, so all of you are safe from my cheap BFR tactics sneer

Cloak +Jay Garrick and Dark Dimension porting

Edit: as a cheap fighter, I would like to ask about self-BFRs (so hiding somewhere for a while), someone like Pixie (sun porting), and equipment levels (Kang, for example).

I dont have a problem with BFR, you still have to make m it stick and from m low herald up the frequency with which beings can easily return from a BFR gets greater and greater.

When using two low herald choices in an amalgam BFR shouldnt hold anyone really.

@Sin

The constructs and whatnot can't be autonomous, so the more you summon, the more you have to split concentration to control, opening you up to more attacks.

Maybe a limit would be good though, don't want to wade through a thousand ghosts looking for someone.

Originally posted by leonidas
creel has lost too many times to be higher ranked than low herald. doom is interesting. in straight 1on1, non-prepped scenarios, i don't really think doom is that far above many of those guys--he may not be as powerful as some.

i agree dd should NOT be low herald though.

so, are we forbidding anyone else?

Most guys would f up Doom imo, hes just absurdly popular on KMC

Doom is a good pick...at mid herald. Leave him out. He's not completely OP at low, but he IS beyond the cap these days, Secret Wars notwithstanding.

I'm with Sin on 3 judges as opposed to 5. My earlier advice on judges still stands, though.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Can we get a vote going on this BFR ruling?

Because, much like Leo, I am strongly opposed to it.

I'm with these two.

I agree with Doom being banned.

I also agree on 3 judges per a match.

On BFR: imo it's a cheap forum tactic. I wouldn't mind seeing no BFR for this tourney.

1 vote for no BFR from me.

Judges
Sin I AM
Digi
psycho gundam (back up judge/participant)
quanchi112 (Back up judge)
Board Walker
The Nuul
JayDaDon
krisblaze
Bentley
SquallX
Supermutant
Prof. T.C McAbe


Participants
leonidas
Blair Wind
Scoobless
beatboks
Martian_mind
LordofBrooklyn
Werewolf582
Abhilegend
Ambient

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Someone mentioned twenty second rule on bfr which seems legit. If you have that much power at your disposal bfr really shouldn't be an issue, im just wary about dimension dumping; sun porting, etc. That would be annoying and cheap. Maybe relegate it to long distance (something a speedster or brick with jumping capacity can recover from? It'd suck to get hung up on bfr the entire match. If people have strong arguments for keeping creel and doom don't see y "id" wouldn't accept them back. Doomsday is a no brainer.

20 seconds is ok i guess. i'd just as soon see it gone altogether though. i also think people are overestimating how easy it is for many characters at this level to counter a serious bfr--i mean off planet, or into a different dimension. i don't believe there are many who can produce on-panel proof of the ability to teleport interdimensionally....just saying.



i think this is a must.





not sure if it was in my little tourney, or another one, but a rule was put in where the constructs needed to be no higher than high meta (ie--im could summon his armors, if possible, and they would be ok.)



this is good too. you could follow the same for the constructs i suppose.

@saint--i have kang right now with the low herald title belt and all his equipment was fine in the match i had. ie--tech can't exceed low herald, nor can it be amalgamated to exceed high herald.

i think it's important to bear in mind what scoob said--even amalgamated the characters shouldn't be more powerful than a high herald like thor. it gets tricksy sometimes to judge that if someone is...gimmicky, but someone shouldn't be clearly behind a high herald--high heralds should STILL be able to beat the amalgam. if we keep that in mind, we should be fine.

id, i'm afraid you're gonna have to go through this stuff and come up with a definite set of rules before monday. your rulings on constructs/bfrs and such will determine the direction of many picks....

oh, and what about self brf? should be allowed but limited to a very short timeframe. imo.

I was gonna name my amalgam "The BFRer" or "Sir Portsalot"... Looks like I'm heading back to the drawing board.

Asked if a poll can be put up. Its for the No No list, the characters in question.

4 votes or more warrant a ban.

Ok Dok?

Edit: And once we iron out things, rules will be updated, and added to the front page.

Sounds fair to me.

so, we're not adhering to the high herald limit of the amalgam then? because a horde of low herald copies that can or can't move at light speed would decimate guys like thor....

and emma is NOT the limit on tp? that also would exceed low herald, imo. i mean, along with chuck, cassie is low herald... so if the limit isn't emma, then does that mean we could take charles? now i'm confused?

Originally posted by leonidas
so, we're not adhering to the high herald limit of the amalgam then? because a horde of low herald copies that can or can't move at light speed would decimate guys like thor....

and emma is NOT the limit on tp? that also would exceed low herald, imo. i mean, along with chuck, cassie is low herald... so if the limit isn't emma, then does that mean we could take charles? now i'm confused?

I amalgamate Doomsday with Cassie Nova. Yeah.

If judge votes count, we already have four against Doom. I'd also vote against Atom and Shadow King, for self BFR reasons. Shadow King CAN be affected, but it forces drafters to account for it, which could severely limit picks. No other strong opinions. Creel is a walking exploitation, but technically it could fall under the Jeffries rule.

Would Lex Luthor count as a low herald in his armor? I don't think I've ever seen Luthor drafted in a tourney and I'd like to see what someone could do with him.

Originally posted by Digi
If judge votes count, we already have four against Doom. I'd also vote against Atom and Shadow King, for self BFR reasons. Shadow King CAN be affected, but it forces drafters to account for it, which could severely limit picks. No other strong opinions. Creel is a walking exploitation, but technically it could fall under the Jeffries rule.

i'd have thought shadow king was out based on the tp limit, but now i don't think that's the case so yes, i'd agree with banning him as a loophole if nothing else given his specific ability and the specific drafts that would need to be taken to counter them.

and let's not forget the LOOPHOLE rule please. hoping id takes a firm stance on the gimmicky loopholey things that can and do pop up in these things....

and i'd put lex in armor at low herald, though a case could be made for mid maybe...

it's funny--in our little secret wars tourney (and even in the other mini one) none of the issues that are being wrangled over in here even came up... these rules are quite a bit different though from the rules we followed. i could see some crazy sh!t coming from id amended rules. but hey, i'll play by whatever rules are put in place...

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I amalgamate Doomsday with Cassie Nova. Yeah.

well, dd has been officially banned, but yeah, i get your point. cassie is certainly an issue (another i'd have thought banned outright due to emma's tp limit) but now....i guess she needs outright banning as well...? or no...?

Originally posted by leonidas
i'd have thought shadow king was out based on the tp limit, but now i don't think that's the case so yes, i'd agree with banning him as a loophole if nothing else given his specific ability and the specific drafts that would need to be taken to counter them.

and let's not forget the LOOPHOLE rule please. hoping id takes a firm stance on the gimmicky loopholey things that can and do pop up in these things....

and i'd put lex in armor at low herald, though a case could be made for mid maybe...

it's funny--in our little secret wars tourney (and even in the other mini one) none of the issues that are being wrangled over in here even came up... these rules are quite a bit different though from the rules we followed. i could see some crazy sh!t coming from id amended rules. but hey, i'll play by whatever rules are put in place...



well, dd has been officially banned, but yeah, i get your point. cassie is certainly an issue (another i'd have thought banned outright due to emma's tp limit) but now....i guess she needs outright banning as well...? or no...?

Yeah. And with Lex in mid herald, imagine him with Creel's powerset. Better hope there are no Kryps around...

Of course, one could've used Bats and Creel (as someone said earlier). I was originally going to join this tourney, with a Jay Garrick/Cassie speedblitz mindrape lol, but with the limits of Emma, I was less sure. Also, I don't really have the time. I am happy however to play devil's advocate and act as advisor on loophole cheaty rules, lol.

Where would Grifter be with his TP and TK power levels. Isn't he pretty powerful?

Originally posted by The Nuul
Where would Grifter be with his TP and TK power levels. Isn't he pretty powerful?

New 52 is def above that. Pre, not so much.

Same with Zauriel, with his 'erase from existence' powers.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I am happy however to play devil's advocate and act as advisor on loophole cheaty rules, lol.

you do seem to be somewhat of an expert in the field. sneer

Is there a limit power level wise to our amalgamated characters? High herald, abstract?? What exactly is power amping? Ex. Picking Mephisto and summoning his realm to battlefield therefore drastically increasing his power level - would this be considered power amping?

Originally posted by leonidas
i'd have thought shadow king was out based on the tp limit, but now i don't think that's the case so yes, i'd agree with banning him as a loophole if nothing else given his specific ability and the specific drafts that would need to be taken to counter them.

and let's not forget the LOOPHOLE rule please. hoping id takes a firm stance on the gimmicky loopholey things that can and do pop up in these things....

and i'd put lex in armor at low herald, though a case could be made for mid maybe...

it's funny--in our little secret wars tourney (and even in the other mini one) none of the issues that are being wrangled over in here even came up... these rules are quite a bit different though from the rules we followed. i could see some crazy sh!t coming from id amended rules. but hey, i'll play by whatever rules are put in place...



well, dd has been officially banned, but yeah, i get your point. cassie is certainly an issue (another i'd have thought banned outright due to emma's tp limit) but now....i guess she needs outright banning as well...? or no...?
I just realized...Lex doesn't have a respect thread. Or at least not one that I can find. What gives? How does one of the top DC villains not have a respect thread?

Originally posted by Ambient
Is there a limit power level wise to our amalgamated characters? High herald, abstract?? What exactly is power amping? Ex. Picking Mephisto and summoning his realm to battlefield therefore drastically increasing his power level - would this be considered power amping?

well, limit as i HAD understood, was BELOW high herald. the amalgamated characters had to be roughly on par with the high mid heralds in terms of power (for example, in our mini tourney we had amalgams like nova/nico minoru, super skrull/vision, psylocke/dr light and raven/mimic.)

this seems...different. the amalgams will be more powerful than ours i think. and no amping means you can't take someone like superman and radiation man, for example. radiation man would easily be able to amp supes to WELL above his standard levels. that is not allowed.

Is that a confirmed limit? So my example would not be power amping then and valid?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I just realized...Lex doesn't have a respect thread. Or at least not one that I can find. What gives? How does one of the top DC villains not have a respect thread?


Villains lack of respect threads in general, this is why I did both Ultron and Kang back when I had the scans.

well, your example would be illegal due to self bfr. ie, if you took magik and brought yourself and your opponent to limbo you'd lose. the characters are to be used in their most common forms...

Originally posted by leonidas
well, your example would be illegal due to self bfr. ie, if you took magik and brought yourself and your opponent to limbo you'd lose. the characters are to be used in their most common forms...
Right but summoning dimension be considered same as summoning construct? basically? like occupying space.

Another example would be Captain atom summoning quantum field..

again, i'd say that's illegal. of course cap is above caps anyway. i'd throw all those things under loopholes and ban that type of tactic. but this is id's show. guess we'll no when all rules are finalized.

i have my (tentative) picks already set, pending clarification on some of the rules.

Have not really made decision on character pick yet, just brainstorming right now..

Currently at work but I am reading the topic.

Oh, another 'cheaty' loophole.

Any member of the Authority. Do they get the use of their Doors?

Originally posted by "Id"
Currently at work but I am reading the topic.

work? pfft. when you're a tourney host this IS your job. sneer

Lol

Just so you guys know. Cassandra Nova is not Low Herald. Her ranking needs to be updated.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh, another 'cheaty' loophole.

Any member of the Authority. Do they get the use of their Doors?

I would assume not. There is ample precedent from past tourneys if needed. It belongs to the team, not a single character's standard equipment.

There should probably be a amalgam power limit, but high herald seems low given that a lot if low heralds can give many HHs a good fight.

Id really agree with the TP limit, but see no charactera that require banning beyond doomsday. Graviton is only OP because of one arc that had retarded power levels, but I wont argue his ban.

Originally posted by Ambient
Right but summoning dimension be considered same as summoning construct? basically? like occupying space.

You can't summon past your own power levels. Like Strange summoning Shuma. Someone mentioned Tony summoning his armors which is a great example so long as the number that he summons does not exceed his ability to put them down if the situation was reverse