Oozaru Vegeta vs. Goku

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Galan007
Oozaru Vegeta (Saiyan Saga):
http://i.imgur.com/S51h9wx.gif


VS.


Goku (Namek Saga):
http://i.imgur.com/r05agkK.gif


-Both combatants start at full power.
-This is Goku when he first appeared on Namek(pre-zenkai.)
-Assume there is a permanent/indestructible full-moon in the sky.
-No tail cutting.


How's it go?

juggerman
Their PL's are about equal iirc, but Goku has the advantage of being more maneuverable being smaller. And, as he showed in the Saiyan Saga, Vegeta's vulnerable parts(I mean his eyes you pervs) are much larger and eaiser to attack. I'm giving it to Goku for now

carver9
Iirc, Goku said that Vegeta became faster when he went ape. Don't know if this was said only in the Anime though.

cdtm
I'm leaning towards the "smaller and more manuverable, but hits just as hard" camp.

But that Godzilla attack seemed pretty powerful, and required no charge or telegraphing at all.

Galan007
Originally posted by carver9
Iirc, Goku said that Vegeta became faster when he went ape. Don't know if this was said only in the Anime though. Goku did comment on Oozaru-Vegeta's remarkable speed in the manga:
http://i.imgur.com/PLTSzy4.png

http://i.imgur.com/ko8ZGFYm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/2r4Z3RWm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/gSgBSQHm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/3fdCAXKm.jpg

Galan007
Originally posted by cdtm
But that Godzilla attack seemed pretty powerful, and required no charge or telegraphing at all. thumb up

That mouth-beam was pretty uber:
http://i.imgur.com/LQUVUy5m.jpg http://i.imgur.com/jcsEPjEm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/nFX0eWqm.jpg

cdtm
Yeah, but he was still able to somewhat avoid him. While Namek Goku was toying with the much faster Burter and Jeice, and moving so fast Vegeta couldn't even see him move.

Galan007
^ Vegeta was very weakened when he became an Oozaru--his PL wasn't remotely close to its peak. IOW, his performance there isn't indicative of what he can do at full power.

Adam Grimes
Goku KKx2 ftw.

Galan007
Despite having pretty much identical power levels(~180,000), I actually agree that Goku might have the edge due to sheer speed/maneuverability. The big "?" for me is how exactly Goku can win? I'm not sure a Kamehameha can do the trick, and he certainly can't sustain Kaio-Ken indefinitely.

Thoughts..?

carver9
Goku wasn't dodging Vegeta during his ape form imo. It looked as if Vegeta was toying with him while hitting him almost every time.

juggerman
I highly doubt Vegeta, even Oozaru Vegeta was Burter fast. Goku should be able to win here

bbrem123
Yea saiyan saga Goku was giving Oozaru Vegata some trouble. Gokuf ro Namek saga should take this

Galan007
^ Oozaru Vegeta was nowhere near his peak, though. That's like me using Goku's showings when he was fully infected by the heart disease, as a means to prove how inept he was during the Android saga.


Anyway, when Vegeta's PL was around 30,000, he was still able to track Goku's movements while he was fighting the Ginyu Force. Given that his Oozaru form would be 6x more powerful AND have extremely heightened ape-senses, I don't know why he couldn't do at least the same thing here..? Even IF you presume his physical speed was neutered when he became an Oozaru(and it did NOT appear to have been, mind you), surely he can still counter Goku's speed with those insta-mouth-beams, at the very least..?

bbrem123
Yea I see what you are saying. I just dont know.

True he was not 100% but neither was the Goku that was giving him trouble.

Galan007
Originally posted by bbrem123
True he was not 100% but neither was the Goku that was giving him trouble. "Giving him trouble" is a bit misleading. ALL Goku managed to do against Oozaru-Vegeta is use a Taiyoken(Solar Flare), and blast one of his eyes when he was busy gloating/monologuing. That's literally it.

His KaioKen-amped speed and whatnot counted for nothing against Oozaru-Vegeta.

bbrem123
Yea I guess you are right. Other than getting him in the eye he didn't do much.

He did get his tail cut off by Yajirobe though...

I swear. When DBZ characters are off there guard they are so vulnerable. Look at what just happened to Goku from a Zarbon level character...

Might actually explain Vegeta being able to damage Beerus too

cdtm
Originally posted by Galan007
Despite having pretty much identical power levels(~180,000), I actually agree that Goku might have the edge due to sheer speed/maneuverability. The big "?" for me is how exactly Goku can win? I'm not sure a Kamehameha can do the trick, and he certainly can't sustain Kaio-Ken indefinitely.

Thoughts..?

Can he grab the tail, if not rip it? Should theoretically hurt him, unless he trained it like Goku did back in early Dragon Ball.

bbrem123
Yea I dont think that works. They tried on Nappa. I am almost 100% sure it would be no different on Vegeta

cdtm
Originally posted by bbrem123
Yea I dont think that works. They tried on Nappa. I am almost 100% sure it would be no different on Vegeta

Nappa's also much, much stronger though. The whole point of tail training is to prevent weaklings from exploiting it. Doesn't mean it will hold up against someone of equal strength.

juggerman
Originally posted by cdtm
Nappa's also much, much stronger though. The whole point of tail training is to prevent weaklings from exploiting it. Doesn't mean it will hold up against someone of equal strength.

Doesn't work like that. Tail grabbing hurt no matter who grabbed it. Training it was a way to do away with the weakness altogether. It would hurt no more than say grabbing his arm would

cdtm
Only weaker characters have tried it. Krillin to Goku, and Ten to Nappa.

A person of equal strength could totally hurt someones arm with both hands.

And the tail was treated as a major weak point. We've seen Freeza wince just from SSJ Goku grabbing his hand, so it's unlikely any amount of training could turn a serious weak point into the strongest parts of the body.

juggerman
Originally posted by cdtm
Only weaker characters have tried it. Krillin to Goku, and Ten to Nappa.

A person of equal strength could totally hurt someones arm with both hands.

And the tail was treated as a major weak point. We've seen Freeza wince just from SSJ Goku grabbing his hand, so it's unlikely any amount of training could turn a serious weak point into the strongest parts of the body.

Wrong. Tien grabbed Goku's tail the the WMAT and they were about equal in power. It did nothing since Goku overcame the weakness.

A person of equal strength would not hurt someones arm just by grabbing it. Hell sometimes their punches and kicks barely do anything.

The tail WAS treated like a weakpoint until Goku overcame that weakness. It was never sated his tail got stroger but was still a weakspot. It was said it was no longer a weakspot period. Nappa and Vegeta confirm this too.

Also it was Piccolo not Tien that grabbed Nappa's tail

juggerman
Just looked back and I was mistaken about Tien grabbing Goku's tail. Trying to figure out who I was thinking of

EDIT: It was Krillin. My Bad. But the difference between Goku and Krillin at that point wasn't huge and Krillin was able to give Goku a fight. Nothing shows that the tail was still a weak point at all after training it

cdtm
Goku wasn't taking Krillin seriously at all (And Ten even remarked he'd make an easier opponent) , while Krillin was acting desperate. Hence the tail grab attempt.

juggerman
The difference in their power levels was less than 100.

Galan007
Tail-grabbing won't work on Vegeta:
http://i.imgur.com/aXfDBu1.png

http://i.imgur.com/pmlA3cwm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/YxgCH7Gm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/IQ9PiP8m.jpg

cdtm
Originally posted by Galan007
Tail-grabbing won't work on Vegeta:
http://i.imgur.com/aXfDBu1.png

http://i.imgur.com/pmlA3cwm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/YxgCH7Gm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/IQ9PiP8m.jpg

Ah, so it was Piccolo and not Ten.

Still a good deal weaker then Nappa, though. At 180k a piece, in theory Goku should be about as strong as Vegeta

Plus, we have one example that implies inferior durability: Yajorobi cutting it off, with a normal sword.

Galan007
^ Tail-cutting isn't an option, per the stips of this thread.

As for tail-grabbing: Vegeta and Nappa overcame that weakness. Goku stopping and trying to squeeze it would only serve to make him a target for Vegeta.

cdtm
Re-thinking this:

The thing is, Vegeta was barely faster then SAIYAN SAGA Goku. A much, much, much slower Goku then Namek saga.

I'm thinking the waremonkey mainly increases power like an Ultra SSJ form, wirh very little increases to speed (If any. Goku remarked on Vegeta's speed relative to his size, but Vegeta should be faster then Goku normally..)

Tondemonai
I'd give it to Goku, given that he had a PL of 180,000 (which is what Oozaru Vegita was if we take his "ten time stronger" claim at face value) at Kaioken, so Kaioken x2 would mop him.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by Galan007
^ Oozaru Vegeta was nowhere near his peak, though.

Was Goku in any better shape, really?

I'm not sure the "10x" multiplier should necessarily be taken at face value. Vegeta didn't seem to grow that much in power, and if Vegeta could reach a power level of 180,000 simply by being subjected to blutz waves, I suspect he wouldn't have been taken so lightly by Zarbon, the Ginyu Force, etc., no?

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