Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0D0VGomWb4

I have some issues with their attitude towards superman, regardless of outcome. What do you guys think of the fight?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f89/t588515.html

Already posted my sentiments on it there, but I was fine with it, for the most part, even if the lobotomizing bit was a little hard to watch because of how brutal it was.

Ah okay, we can stick with that thread then.

Superdouche can only win on that douchetube channel, nowhere else.

Base Goku w/o god ki rapes him.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Superdouche can only win on that douchetube channel, nowhere else.

Base Goku w/o god ki rapes him.

http://img13.deviantart.net/f28e/i/2010/043/c/d/goku_vs_popeye_by_sanchexter.jpg

Looks like he said "Screw the spinach", judging by all that green.

Goku took it like a champ. One finger flick from Popeye would annihilate every Superdouche version that has ever existed.

Superman cannot be defeated.

Pretty obvious the creators have a hard-on for Supes. Their last Death Battle was much better than this pile of crap.

Originally posted by Galan007
Pretty obvious the creators have a hard-on for Supes. Their last Death Battle was much better than this pile of crap.

Indeed, This Death battle was very inaccurate for the both, Do you think Goku could someday be more powerful then Post-crisis Superman by the time of DBS?

Originally posted by Galan007
Pretty obvious the creators have a hard-on for Supes. Their last Death Battle was much better than this pile of crap. couldn't agree more

Superman>Goku

Canon

Goku > Superman.

They argued so hard about the "lifting infinite weight" thing.

Superman and Shazam travel to the Library of Limbo to read a book housed in a sphere which details all the histories in the DCU, at a time when there were 52 multiverses. They read the book in order to learn how to escape Limbo.

Superman states "A book with an infinite number of pages occupying the same space"," this contains every book possible!".

Superman and Shazam attempt to take the book to a spaceship

Superman "The Ultima Thule's onboard computer has infinite memory capacity"

Shazam "Which means it could read every page of the book at once.".

When attempting to move the book pages start falling out and they drop it. The book reads itself.

Every book possible is a finite number of books, not an infinite number of books. There is no context to the weight. On our own Earth (Earth 1 in the DCU) we are moving away from printed content to digital content. It's safe to assume that is the case in other (theoretical) multiverses.

In an attempt to show some context we can try to determine the weight of all the books on Earth.

http://mashable.com/2010/08/05/number-of-books-in-the-world/

How many books have ever been published in all of modern history? According to Google's advanced algorithms, the answer is nearly 130 million books, or 129,864,880, to be exact.

All the books possible on Earth is 130 million books. How much does an average book weigh?

http://avgpostageweights.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/average-weight-of-paperback-book.html

The heaviest paperback weights 1lb 5oz = 0.60kg

The heaviest hardback weights 1lb 15oz = 0.88kg

If we say all the books in the World have the weight of the heaviest hardback that means they were lifting 114400000 kg or 114,400 tonnes (0.88 x 130 million).

IF we say there are a million copies of every book ever published that's 114,400 x 1,000,000 = 114400000000 or one hundred fourteen billion four hundred million tonnes.

If we say there are a million copies of every book ever published in 52 multiverses that's 114400000000 x 52 = 5.9488e+12 = five billion ninety-four million eight hundred eighty thousand twelve or 5.9488 trillion tonnes.

http://www.tools4noobs.com/online_tools/number_spell_words/

Still considerably less than the weight of the Earth - 6.580 sextillion tons.

If Superman could lift infinite weight he would not have needed the help of Wonder Woman and Kyle Rayner to lift Spectre (JLA The Spectre Soul War 1)

If Superman could lift infinite weight he would not have needed the help of Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter and Kyle Rayner to move the Earth (JLA 75)

If Superman could lift infinite weight he would not have needed to sun-dip in order to move Warworld (Action Comics 782)

Spectre was heavier than the book as it took three Justice League members to move him

The Earth was also heavier than the book and Spectre as it took four Justice League members to move him

Therefore Superman did not lift infinite weight.

His best feat of solo lifting is 200 quintillion tons.

Perfect Cell stopped a planet busting asteroid with one hand. It would take around 110 quadrillion megatons to destroy the Earth, which is the equivalent to 110 sextillion tons. And we could assume that its speed would increase that tonnage even more. And this was casual for Cell, btw.

There are plenty more strength feats like that for DBZ, but everyone, ESPECIALLY Screwy-attack, likes to ignore them. Just to wank every other fictional character EVER. Smfh

Here's the biggest part where you are wrong:

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Superman states "A book with an infinite number of pages occupying the same space"," this contains every book possible!".

It's a book with infinte pages. That was established. Infinite pages equals infinite weight. It was written as clear as day. Just because you don't like it doesn't change it.

Also it clearly states "it contains every book POSSIBLE". Let that sink in for a second. Not every book currently out. Not every book that has been written. But every book that could ever be possibly made. Meaning books that are yet to be. Also books that will never be. If they are possible, this book contains it.

That also takes into consideration books on other worlds, not just Earth. That means your numbers are WAY off just on that point alone as we see in the DCU there are books on other planets.

Originally posted by Galan007
Pretty obvious the creators have a hard-on for Supes. Their last Death Battle was much better than this pile of crap.
To be fair though, both guys clearly do prefer Goku overall as a character. But yeah, the whole no limits thing with Superman was meh, and the first death battle between the two was certainly better.

Originally posted by juggerman
Here's the biggest part where you are wrong:



It's a book with infinte pages. That was established. Infinite pages equals infinite weight. It was written as clear as day. Just because you don't like it doesn't change it.

Also it clearly states "it contains every book POSSIBLE". Let that sink in for a second. Not every book currently out. Not every book that has been written. But every book that could ever be possibly made. Meaning books that are yet to be. Also books that will never be. If they are possible, this book contains it.

That also takes into consideration books on other worlds, not just Earth. That means your numbers are WAY off just on that point alone as we see in the DCU there are books on other planets.

Morrisons intention was clear as day, he wanted an infinite strength challange for superman. The moronic "debunk" opinions that are spawned over the Internet are just a "if i post it on the net it's legit" syndrome to make the people feel better and convince the clueless. Supermans strength is a plot device, like Hulks, similar to Flashs speedforce.

Originally posted by Galan007
Pretty obvious the creators have a hard-on for Supes. Their last Death Battle was much better than this pile of crap.

Agreed 100%, even if I do agree with the outcome.

I'm not certain if they were trolling the DBZ fans, or if this was more what they felt was a "PIS free" take on the fight, as the last fight made it look like Supes had an unfair sun amp, plus almost all their fights make it look close for the sake of drama

The latter I could forgive, since they wouldn't be trying to push buttons on purpose..

honestly i like goku as a character more but id have to agree with death battle vid superman's feat far outweigh goku's and hes given more incredible feats story by story. holding a black hole in your hand and lifting infinity are just too off them.

can anyone show me goku lifting a quintillion tons superman lifted seven.... its ridicoulous is why i hate superman because its like he literally can do anything his limits are unbound. they werent even using superman's strongest version in this fight. pre crisis and prime 1 million are way stronger. tho im not sure supes is walking through a kamehameha head on i do think hed win.


goku is the much more well rounded and down to earth character which is why i like him more

Quintilion tons feat is not canon.

That was from All Star right?

DBZ characters are getting pretty op. Old Kai seems to think Beerus can destroy the universe...

I dont see how superman can content with that amount of raw power

To me it looks like this

Laser almost killed Goku unfocused.

SM could have been sleeping unconscious and it would have done nothing.

Yea superman has the luxury of not needing to power up ha

Originally posted by juggerman
That was from All Star right?
Yes.

Originally posted by juggerman
That was from All Star right?

http://i.imgur.com/jRsgbFXm.jpg

Irrespective of the outcome (I agree with Superman winning overall), a deluded show once again, as expected.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Quintilion tons feat is not canon.


how is it not canon its in the comic and is a feat hes performed.

It's not canon to the version being discussed. It's a different Superman than mainstream Superman.

Originally posted by bbrem123
DBZ characters are getting pretty op. Old Kai seems to think Beerus can destroy the universe...

I dont see how superman can content with that amount of raw power Yet he didnt express how. So its vague as ****.

Having said that why did they make a rematch? Did they lose viewers or something? Also having Superman lobotomize Goku is so fkn wrong man.

Originally posted by Damborgson
It's not canon to the version being discussed. It's a different Superman than mainstream Superman.

And mainstream Superman could legitimately force Goku to bend over and plow his anus with a steely cock until he bleeds to death from the friction.

Goku has always been better than Superman in terms of energy output, but hopelessly outclassed in any physical category.

Even the new DB Super feats have not changed this.

Originally posted by juggerman
Here's the biggest part where you are wrong:



It's a book with infinte pages. That was established. Infinite pages equals infinite weight. It was written as clear as day. Just because you don't like it doesn't change it.

Also it clearly states "it contains every book POSSIBLE". Let that sink in for a second. Not every book currently out. Not every book that has been written. But every book that could ever be possibly made. Meaning books that are yet to be. Also books that will never be. If they are possible, this book contains it.

That also takes into consideration books on other worlds, not just Earth. That means your numbers are WAY off just on that point alone as we see in the DCU there are books on other planets.

Every book "possible", means that it doesn't contain books that are impossible. Which means that it is a finite number.

And also, the computer which processed the book had infinite memory. But it worked as a computer, which was powered by the internet. Other planets in DC use different means of knowledge sharing, similar to the internet, but different as well. For example, Oa uses the sheer force of willpower to transfer, store, and process knowledge, as well as do many other things. The internet, therefor computers, therefor the infinite memory computer, cannot process willpower. Or any of the alternative means of informational sharing that other planets use. It was explored in... I think it was an edition of Lobo? But it said that each planet has its own version of the internet. It was basically a convenient way of explaining why aliens don't use the internet to communicate with Earthlings.

So yeah, my estimate is the most logical assumption of the books weight, as it is a finite amount.

And I also have the supporting evidence, behind it being easier for Shazam and Superman to lift the book, then it was for Superman, Wonder Woman, Kyle Rayner, and Martian Manhunter to move Earth.

If Superman could lift infinite weight, he would have lifted the Spectre, EFFORTLESSLY by HIMSELF, and would have done the same by himself to the Earth.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
To me it looks like this

Laser almost killed Goku unfocused.

SM could have been sleeping unconscious and it would have done nothing.

Goku can be caught off guard just like anyone in DBZ.

Superman just has the luxury of his power being something he doesn't have to maintain, as it's simply his biology.

Superman is as durable while sleeping, as he is while awake, but that's because his powers are pretty much just the same thing as a super strong human.

That doesn't prove superiority to Goku, in any way other than he could probably kill him while he was asleep. Which Goku could do anyway.

Originally posted by NemeBro
And mainstream Superman could legitimately force Goku to bend over and plow his anus with a steely cock until he bleeds to death from the friction.

Goku has always been better than Superman in terms of energy output, but hopelessly outclassed in any physical category.

Even the new DB Super feats have not changed this.

What feats does mainstream Superman have, above All-star Superman? Or PC Superman?

Because neither of them can contend with the confirmed universe busting Bills, who Goku is almost stronger than, as a SSJGSSJ.

Plus, Bills has a feat of TRAVEL speed, on par with what we've seen Superman do. All from DB Super.

EDIT

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Yet he didnt express how. So its vague as ****.

Having said that why did they make a rematch? Did they lose viewers or something? Also having Superman lobotomize Goku is so fkn wrong man.

Yeah, that's Justice Lord Superman tactics. Even movie Man of Steel didn't just execute a helpless, defeated opponent.

That's Optimus Primes thing.

Superman did it to Manchester Black

The reference is actually the infinite monkey theorem. And the number of pages were specified to be infinite.

http://i.imgur.com/8rNSicHm.jpg

And ∞/∞ is neither finite nor infinite, it's undefined.

Originally posted by juggerman
Superman did it to Manchester Black
He only did it to Manchester to strip him of his powers though, not outright kill him like he did to Goku.

Is Superman vs. The Elite even canon?

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
1. You're missing the point here.

You are missing something bud. So is an infinite amount of pages, as stated on panel, finite too for you? You don't like that it had a number of infinite pages? That's your problem, it had according to the comic, so stop your BS excuses and deal with it.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
1. You're missing the point here. "Every book possible" is STILL a finite amount of books. It portrays the fact that there are books which were IMPOSSIBLE to write, meaning that if JK Rowling got killed while writing Harry Potter in every universe, other than ours, then it was IMPOSSIBLE for Harry Potter to come out. And again, it is a VERY finite amount of books, when considering how information allows transfer of publications, and knowledge through META-PHYSICAL MEANS, such as the internet. Meaning that there are SEVERAL ways that this statement limits itself, in simply existing.

Unless Superman lifted it by himself, stating that the book weighed infinite weight, then the feat is NOT an infinite lifting feat. Since he needed Shazam's help, it PROVES that the weight is finite, as infinity divided by two IS STILL INFINITY. Meaning that the weight would not change, and Superman would still be lifting infinite weight, so Shazam's help would not be needed, or really even be help, in the FIRST place.

BUT since they BOTH have a FINITE weight lifting LIMIT, the books weight is ALSO finite.

And from there, the most logical calculation of the book, is the one that assumes the least. Hell, for all we know, there could be no books at all, on any planet other than Earth and Oa, in DC. And the only book on Oa is the book of Destiny, portraying the Blackest night.

2. I don't think you're getting me here, the computer didn't have access to knowledge databanks in every other storage system there is, such as willpower, love, rage, etc. Meaning that books stored on such mediums were not IN the book of infinity, meaning it holds a FINITE number of books.

3. Infinity / Infinity = Infinity. So since Superman needed Shazam's help, the weight was finite, as is their lifting capacity.

4. Superman's mental blocks don't restrict unlimited power from him. He simply doesn't have it. How do you think one Superman is capable of killing another, in the case of Superboy Prime? One infinity canNOT be larger than another, as it is a logical paradox. But FINITE numbers can be larger than others, MEANING that their powers are FINITE.

What about this is so hard to get, for you? No matter how much those Screwyattack idiots say that Superman is omnipotent, it won't magically make him omnipotent. He needed a mech just to fight Mandrakk, for christ sake. smfh

1. Ok this is getting silly. Whether she dies or not, there was still the possibility of her writing it. There was also the possibility of her writting it a billion different ways. There is also the possibility of here writting a billion different book a billion different ways. And again that's only one person. This book counts them all since they are all POSSIBILE

Superman lifted it with help which means they both lifted infinity. HAving two lift it doesn't magically make it finite especially when it was made clear it the text it was infinate pages. We can't discount that because you don't like it. It canonly had infinate pages and therefore infinate weight

You keep harping on the books that actually exist. That's why you are having a problem here. The book of infinity has way more in it that just the books that currently exist or even that ever will exist. It contains ALL BOOKS POSSIBLE. It's possible for me to write a thousand books about non sense. Since it's possible, they exist within it.

2. All books possible is infinite

3. Half of infinity is infinity so they both lifted infinity

4. Yes they actually do. Prime has no blocks and is therefore stronger. Not hard to figure out.

They never said he was omnipotent. His power isn't limitless. But his strength is. Big difference

Except of this. Superman would have been most likely able to do it alone, like Ultraman, an alternate Superman, however, Superman is a hero and not arrogant, it's in his nature to take no risks and take help with him, just in case.

The book had an infinite number of pages, on panel fact, this means infinite weight, deal with it. Morrison made it easy to understand.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
He only did it to Manchester to strip him of his powers though, not outright kill him like he did to Goku.

Plus it was only temporary damage, so basically like a controlled concussion.

Now what he did to Luthor was more disturbing, using hv to cut out the parts of his brain that knew he was Clark Kent. That's on par with Identity Crisis or Charles Xavior mind screwing.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Every book "possible", means that it doesn't contain books that are impossible. Which means that it is a finite number.

And also, the computer which processed the book had infinite memory. But it worked as a computer, which was powered by the internet. Other planets in DC use different means of knowledge sharing, similar to the internet, but different as well. For example, Oa uses the sheer force of willpower to transfer, store, and process knowledge, as well as do many other things. The internet, therefor computers, therefor the infinite memory computer, cannot process willpower. Or any of the alternative means of informational sharing that other planets use. It was explored in... I think it was an edition of Lobo? But it said that each planet has its own version of the internet. It was basically a convenient way of explaining why aliens don't use the internet to communicate with Earthlings.

So yeah, my estimate is the most logical assumption of the books weight, as it is a finite amount.

And I also have the supporting evidence, behind it being easier for Shazam and Superman to lift the book, then it was for Superman, Wonder Woman, Kyle Rayner, and Martian Manhunter to move Earth.

If Superman could lift infinite weight, he would have lifted the Spectre, EFFORTLESSLY by HIMSELF, and would have done the same by himself to the Earth.



Goku can be caught off guard just like anyone in DBZ.

Superman just has the luxury of his power being something he doesn't have to maintain, as it's simply his biology.

Superman is as durable while sleeping, as he is while awake, but that's because his powers are pretty much just the same thing as a super strong human.

That doesn't prove superiority to Goku, in any way other than he could probably kill him while he was asleep. Which Goku could do anyway.
http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/23502052_29.jpg

Read it and weep.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Every book "possible", means that it doesn't contain books that are impossible. Which means that it is a finite number.

And also, the computer which processed the book had infinite memory. But it worked as a computer, which was powered by the internet. Other planets in DC use different means of knowledge sharing, similar to the internet, but different as well. For example, Oa uses the sheer force of willpower to transfer, store, and process knowledge, as well as do many other things. The internet, therefor computers, therefor the infinite memory computer, cannot process willpower. Or any of the alternative means of informational sharing that other planets use. It was explored in... I think it was an edition of Lobo? But it said that each planet has its own version of the internet. It was basically a convenient way of explaining why aliens don't use the internet to communicate with Earthlings.

So yeah, my estimate is the most logical assumption of the books weight, as it is a finite amount.

And I also have the supporting evidence, behind it being easier for Shazam and Superman to lift the book, then it was for Superman, Wonder Woman, Kyle Rayner, and Martian Manhunter to move Earth.

If Superman could lift infinite weight, he would have lifted the Spectre, EFFORTLESSLY by HIMSELF, and would have done the same by himself to the Earth.



Goku can be caught off guard just like anyone in DBZ.

Superman just has the luxury of his power being something he doesn't have to maintain, as it's simply his biology.

Superman is as durable while sleeping, as he is while awake, but that's because his powers are pretty much just the same thing as a super strong human.

That doesn't prove superiority to Goku, in any way other than he could probably kill him while he was asleep. Which Goku could do anyway.

You know you disagreeing with canon fact doesn't actually make what you say change canon fact right?

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Except of this. Superman would have been most likely able to do it alone, like Ultraman, an alternate Superman, however, Superman is a hero and not arrogant, it's in his nature to take no risks and take help with him, just in case.

The book had an infinite number of pages, on panel fact, this means infinite weight, deal with it. Morrison made it easy to understand.

Also if Superman tried to lift it alone and had trouble, why wouldn't he use the other strong man to help? Just because Superman COULD do it alone doesn't mean he wanted to or even thought he could

wait why the hell do you need help with infinite weight? that makes no sense lol

you either can or cant lift it

I think we need more proof Goku is stronger then Superman, and we can't find that in physical feats alone.

Originally posted by bbrem123
wait why the hell do you need help with infinite weight? that makes no sense lol

you either can or cant lift it

When I spot for bench pressing, when the guy startes having trouble I just place my hands on the bar. More often than not that's all they need and they are able to lft the weight themselves because they think I'm helping. Sometimes all you need is that mental edge. Same thing here

superman definitely has far better feats of strength. No question about it

Originally posted by juggerman
When I spot for bench pressing, when the guy startes having trouble I just place my hands on the bar. More often than not that's all they need and they are able to lft the weight themselves because they think I'm helping. Sometimes all you need is that mental edge. Same thing here infinite is infinite though.

So technically half of infinite does not exist. Lifting half of infinite would be the same thing as lifting infinite.

I might just be losing my mind...not sure.

Originally posted by bbrem123
infinite is infinite though.

So technically half of infinite does not exist. Lifting half of infinite would be the same thing as lifting infinite.

I might just be losing my mind...not sure.

I just meant Superman having assistance, even tho that assistance didn't really help (like I try not to help when spotting) didn't change that he lifted infinite weight

ahh sorry I took that wrong. You are correct my friend

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Every book "possible", means that it doesn't contain books that are impossible. Which means that it is a finite number.

And also, the computer which processed the book had infinite memory. But it worked as a computer, which was powered by the internet. Other planets in DC use different means of knowledge sharing, similar to the internet, but different as well. For example, Oa uses the sheer force of willpower to transfer, store, and process knowledge, as well as do many other things. The internet, therefor computers, therefor the infinite memory computer, cannot process willpower. Or any of the alternative means of informational sharing that other planets use. It was explored in... I think it was an edition of Lobo? But it said that each planet has its own version of the internet. It was basically a convenient way of explaining why aliens don't use the internet to communicate with Earthlings.

So yeah, my estimate is the most logical assumption of the books weight, as it is a finite amount.

And I also have the supporting evidence, behind it being easier for Shazam and Superman to lift the book, then it was for Superman, Wonder Woman, Kyle Rayner, and Martian Manhunter to move Earth.

If Superman could lift infinite weight, he would have lifted the Spectre, EFFORTLESSLY by HIMSELF, and would have done the same by himself to the Earth.



Goku can be caught off guard just like anyone in DBZ.

Superman just has the luxury of his power being something he doesn't have to maintain, as it's simply his biology.

Superman is as durable while sleeping, as he is while awake, but that's because his powers are pretty much just the same thing as a super strong human.

That doesn't prove superiority to Goku, in any way other than he could probably kill him while he was asleep. Which Goku could do anyway.


you cant debunk infiniti bro its infiniti

Originally posted by juggerman
1. Ok this is getting silly. Whether she dies or not, there was still the possibility of her writing it. There was also the possibility of her writting it a billion different ways. There is also the possibility of here writting a billion different book a billion different ways. And again that's only one person. This book counts them all since they are all POSSIBILE

Superman lifted it with help which means they both lifted infinity. HAving two lift it doesn't magically make it finite especially when it was made clear it the text it was infinate pages. We can't discount that because you don't like it. It canonly had infinate pages and therefore infinate weight

You keep harping on the books that actually exist. That's why you are having a problem here. The book of infinity has way more in it that just the books that currently exist or even that ever will exist. It contains ALL BOOKS POSSIBLE. It's possible for me to write a thousand books about non sense. Since it's possible, they exist within it.

2. All books possible is infinite

3. Half of infinity is infinity so they both lifted infinity

4. Yes they actually do. Prime has no blocks and is therefore stronger. Not hard to figure out.

They never said he was omnipotent. His power isn't limitless. But his strength is. Big difference

No, this has BEEN silly, since this "infinite weight" shit was brought up.

1. YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT HERE. If there are "possible" circumstances, then there are "IMpossible" circumstances, meaning that the circumstances that are IMpossible OUTWEIGH, and therefor overshadow, the POSSIBLE circumstances. Because the list of books that are IMPOSSIBLE to make follows MUCH less strict criteria than books POSSIBLE does. For example, if J.K. Rowling was shot and killed before making Harry Potter, then NO ONE would make the EXACT same book, and therefor, Harry Potter would be IMPOSSIBLE to make.

Anyway, this doesn't change the fact that ∞/2=∞. This ALONE is PROOF that either Superman and Shazam BOTH lifted the equivalent of infinite weight,MEANING THEY ARE BOTH EQUAL IN STRENGTH, OR that NEITHER did, since Superman's stress was relieved from Shazam's help, which does NOT make sense, as that could ONLY happen in the case of a FINITE weight.

2. All books possible is a ridiculously high number. But most certainly NOT infinite. Specifically because the nature of the term "possible", gives a set of criteria that would have to be met, in order for the books to exist in the first place.

3. Shazam has the strength of Hercules. Wonder woman is stronger than Hercules, therefore Hercules, i.e. Shazam, could not lift infinity. So since Shazam does NOT have infinite strength, neither does Superman, as Shazam DID relieve some of the weight from Superman.

4. Superboy Prime killed Kal-L, of Earth 2. Who didn't have the mental blocks that Kal-El of Earth 1 has. Which is possible why it was occasionally suggested that Kal-El was slightly weaker than Kal-L. But even without his mental blocks, Kal-El would be pretty much equal to Kal-L. And Superboy Prime BEAT HIM TO DEATH.

And also, what about Doomsday? Doomsday killed Superman with just strength as well. And almost did it a second time. Doomsday was constantly considered superior to Superman, until he gained consciousness. EVEN IN THE FUTURE, AFTER SUPERMAN OVERCAME HIS MENTAL BLOCKS. So how can Doomsday be stronger than an infinite strength? And how can he get stronger every time he dies, even when he was already stronger than an infinite strength?

THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE: HE DOESN'T. Superman does NOT have infinite strength, no matter how badly you try to wank this feat.

And again, there is still all the other supporting evidence, like him needing help to move Earth, and him needing help to lift the Spectre. And btw, he tried to move Earth, AFTER lifting the Spectre, meaning that Earth DOES weigh more than the Spectre, even CONSIDERING Superman's mental blocks.

And one last thing, Superman hadn't overcome his mental blocks when he and Shazam lifted the book of infinity. Meaning that he was still stronger. Meaning that, since there is nothing greater than infinity, Superman did not lift infinite weight.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
No, this has BEEN silly, since this "infinite weight" shit was brought up.

1. YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT HERE. If there are "possible" circumstances, then there are "IMpossible" circumstances, meaning that the circumstances that are IMpossible OUTWEIGH, and therefor overshadow, the POSSIBLE circumstances. Because the list of books that are IMPOSSIBLE to make follows MUCH less strict criteria than books POSSIBLE does. For example, if J.K. Rowling was shot and killed before making Harry Potter, then NO ONE would make the EXACT same book, and therefor, Harry Potter would be IMPOSSIBLE to make.

Anyway, this doesn't change the fact that ∞/2=∞. This ALONE is PROOF that either Superman and Shazam BOTH lifted the equivalent of infinite weight,MEANING THEY ARE BOTH EQUAL IN STRENGTH, OR that NEITHER did, since Superman's stress was relieved from Shazam's help, which does NOT make sense, as that could ONLY happen in the case of a FINITE weight.

2. All books possible is a ridiculously high number. But most certainly NOT infinite. Specifically because the nature of the term "possible", gives a set of criteria that would have to be met, in order for the books to exist in the first place.

3. Shazam has the strength of Hercules. Wonder woman is stronger than Hercules, therefore Hercules, i.e. Shazam, could not lift infinity. So since Shazam does NOT have infinite strength, neither does Superman, as Shazam DID relieve some of the weight from Superman.

4. Superboy Prime killed Kal-L, of Earth 2. Who didn't have the mental blocks that Kal-El of Earth 1 has. Which is possible why it was occasionally suggested that Kal-El was slightly weaker than Kal-L. But even without his mental blocks, Kal-El would be pretty much equal to Kal-L. And Superboy Prime BEAT HIM TO DEATH.

And also, what about Doomsday? Doomsday killed Superman with just strength as well. And almost did it a second time. Doomsday was constantly considered superior to Superman, until he gained consciousness. EVEN IN THE FUTURE, AFTER SUPERMAN OVERCAME HIS MENTAL BLOCKS. So how can Doomsday be stronger than an infinite strength? And how can he get stronger every time he dies, even when he was already stronger than an infinite strength?

THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE: HE DOESN'T. Superman does NOT have infinite strength, no matter how badly you try to wank this feat.

And again, there is still all the other supporting evidence, like him needing help to move Earth, and him needing help to lift the Spectre. And btw, he tried to move Earth, AFTER lifting the Spectre, meaning that Earth DOES weigh more than the Spectre, even CONSIDERING Superman's mental blocks.

And one last thing, Superman hadn't overcome his mental blocks when he and Shazam lifted the book of infinity. Meaning that he was still stronger. Meaning that, since there is nothing greater than infinity, Superman did not lift infinite weight.
facepalm
Butthurt and denial, a bad combination.

Different stories different writers. Morrison shows shazam the respect he deserves, he is a comic wiz, he knows and respects the chars, tske the zoo crew as an example. One writer has Superman fly from the other end of the universe to earth in 60 days, another caps him at light speed. Doesn't mean Superman isn't faster than ftl. His strength has always been a plot device, like superman himself, it's infinite if it's needed to. His mental blockades prevent him from destroying the fragile world around him while touching or interacting with things.

You can't grasp the logic behind an infinite strength because you try to applylogic to fiction that doesn't works with logic, your view is biased however. Same argument in dbz for example. Son Goku even at his most powerful can't bust a moon because he never did, all blasts from his enemies are not even island level, even from beerus, when they fight else the world would be destroyed as a side effect.

You don't like a canon feat of Superman? That's ok, we understand that but still you can't make it disappear with your whining, so deal with it, make a website where you "debunk" it and where no one can prove how utterly wrong your "logic" is, over and over again.

Originally posted by juggerman
I just meant Superman having assistance, even tho that assistance didn't really help (like I try not to help when spotting) didn't change that he lifted infinite weight



1/2 of infinity is still infinity.

Logic is hard for some people here.

Wouldn't that make the people who helped Superman just as strong as Superman? Both lifted infinity.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
No, this has BEEN silly, since this "infinite weight" shit was brought up.

1. YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT HERE. If there are "possible" circumstances, then there are "IMpossible" circumstances, meaning that the circumstances that are IMpossible OUTWEIGH, and therefor overshadow, the POSSIBLE circumstances. Because the list of books that are IMPOSSIBLE to make follows MUCH less strict criteria than books POSSIBLE does. For example, if J.K. Rowling was shot and killed before making Harry Potter, then NO ONE would make the EXACT same book, and therefor, Harry Potter would be IMPOSSIBLE to make.

Anyway, this doesn't change the fact that ∞/2=∞. This ALONE is PROOF that either Superman and Shazam BOTH lifted the equivalent of infinite weight,MEANING THEY ARE BOTH EQUAL IN STRENGTH, OR that NEITHER did, since Superman's stress was relieved from Shazam's help, which does NOT make sense, as that could ONLY happen in the case of a FINITE weight.

2. All books possible is a ridiculously high number. But most certainly NOT infinite. Specifically because the nature of the term "possible", gives a set of criteria that would have to be met, in order for the books to exist in the first place.

3. Shazam has the strength of Hercules. Wonder woman is stronger than Hercules, therefore Hercules, i.e. Shazam, could not lift infinity. So since Shazam does NOT have infinite strength, neither does Superman, as Shazam DID relieve some of the weight from Superman.

4. Superboy Prime killed Kal-L, of Earth 2. Who didn't have the mental blocks that Kal-El of Earth 1 has. Which is possible why it was occasionally suggested that Kal-El was slightly weaker than Kal-L. But even without his mental blocks, Kal-El would be pretty much equal to Kal-L. And Superboy Prime BEAT HIM TO DEATH.

And also, what about Doomsday? Doomsday killed Superman with just strength as well. And almost did it a second time. Doomsday was constantly considered superior to Superman, until he gained consciousness. EVEN IN THE FUTURE, AFTER SUPERMAN OVERCAME HIS MENTAL BLOCKS. So how can Doomsday be stronger than an infinite strength? And how can he get stronger every time he dies, even when he was already stronger than an infinite strength?

THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE: HE DOESN'T. Superman does NOT have infinite strength, no matter how badly you try to wank this feat.

And again, there is still all the other supporting evidence, like him needing help to move Earth, and him needing help to lift the Spectre. And btw, he tried to move Earth, AFTER lifting the Spectre, meaning that Earth DOES weigh more than the Spectre, even CONSIDERING Superman's mental blocks.

And one last thing, Superman hadn't overcome his mental blocks when he and Shazam lifted the book of infinity. Meaning that he was still stronger. Meaning that, since there is nothing greater than infinity, Superman did not lift infinite weight.

1. It is POSSIBLE (not very probable but still possible) that someone, somewhere, somehow would have written the exact same book. And since it's possible it is included. And again we are talking about possibilities here not what actually happens. So if JK was killed, it still would have been POSSIBLE that if she weren't she would have created HP and and a billion other things as well.

You don't seem to get the implication of the word "possible". That one word is what makes it infinite. You ever hear the phrase "The possibilities are endless"? That's the case here. One single person has the ability to imagine an infinite number of ideas and write them down. Just one person.

But it seems like you are off of the idea that we only consider current Earth bound books and that's a good start.

2. Kinda already answered this but at least we can agree that "all books possible" is a much much much higher number than what you originally tried to calculate. Well beyond anything In DB

3. Comics don't always makes sense but even tho Shazam has his power based on Herc, he is actually stronger than him. Maybe it has to do with him being magical in nature but his feats are above Hercules'

4. Yeah........ Superman from Earth 2 had just flown through a Red Sun and lost his powers. He was basically just an older man at that point. That was a very poor example

As for Doomsday.... well Strength is not durability. For instance, Batman has taken hits from a mind controlled Superman. Doesn't mean he can dish out that kind of power. And Hulk has crazy ass strength feats but he gets cut all the time. Doomsday doesn't have to be stronger that Superman to hurt/kill him. So another poor example but a common enough mistake.

Also you forget that Superman has many different writers and stories that need plot and struggle. One writer may see Superman as weaker than another and that's why you have conflicting feats. DC has addressed this with his mental blocks. Sometimes he can push himself further than other times. So to answer your question, the best way to look at it is Superman has infinite strength but doesn't have access to it at all times. That's why we get him needing help to push a moon but benching the Earth without issue for days on end. He basically is as strong as he needs to be. His strength is a plot device.

The writer clearly stated the book had infinite pages. If it didn't, they would have either made that clear or never stated it did in the first place. You trying to debunk it just shows your biased option here. You want Goku to be stronger but he just doesn't have the feats to compare to Superman's 75+ year history and there is nothing wrong with that.

Also I just realized you tried to use Cell's non canon strength feat as evidence for Goku. Even if the feat were admissible, it isn't tho, it's not a Goku feat. You can't feat swap unless you want me to use feats from Superman's "peers" as evidence for him too. That's a can of worms I'd rather not get in to

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Wouldn't that make the people who helped Superman just as strong as Superman? Both lifted infinity.

Yes and no. DC tends to keep Superman as their top dog. So while the others are direct peers of his, he has the ability to "step it up" just a notch higher than anyone else if the situation calls for it. I know it makes no sense but that's DC's Superman logic

There is no stepping it up from infinity lol.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
There is no stepping it up from infinity lol.

Originally posted by juggerman
I know it makes no sense but that's DC's Superman logic

Neither Wonder Woman or Shazam/Captain Marvel are on Superman's level in the end as far as Post-Crisis goes. They are 'peers' until Superman needs to be above them.

Captain Marvel was knocked out from trying to help Superman. He couldn't handle it. Superman was fine.

And then Ultraman, who is a basically a corrupted alternate universe version of Superman, lifted it by himself. Superman is >= Ultraman. So in the end, Superman never needed Captain Marvel's aid at all. Likewise he didn't need WW's either.

Doesn't matter lol. Even if they only lifted 1 billionth of 1 percent of infinity they'd have still lifted infinity.

I don't think either equal Supes but if they lifted part of infinity then they still lifted infinity. Hard to top.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Doesn't matter lol. Even if they only lifted 1 billionth of 1 percent of infinity they'd have still lifted infinity.

I don't think either equal Supes but if they lifted part of infinity then they still lifted infinity. Hard to top.

You're trying to use real world logic against comic book logic. It just doesn't work

Superman doesn't have infinite strength. Arguing he does based on an extreme, extremely contextual situation doesn't make sense.

He's really, REALLY strong, but tbh it's best to leave things like that out of debates, imo.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Doesn't matter lol. Even if they only lifted 1 billionth of 1 percent of infinity they'd have still lifted infinity.

I don't think either equal Supes but if they lifted part of infinity then they still lifted infinity. Hard to top.

They lifted what they could, up to their limit.


That does not mean they lifted any percentage of infinity. Might be octillions of tons worth, but that's still not any percentage of infinity.

Originally posted by juggerman
You're trying to use real world logic against comic book logic. It just doesn't work

Then it really doesn't qualify as a feat. WW can't be strong enough to lift infinity AND be weaker than Supes in strength(usually).

This seems like something you can really quantify. Like Buu screaming a hole into space and time.

Supes doesn't need this feat, especially not against Goku. Benching the planet will suffice lol.

Superman is only stronger than everyone around him. He can be hit with a car if the people around him can also be hit by a car. If they are omnipotent star hurling galaxy farters than Superman becomes God.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Then it really doesn't qualify as a feat. WW can't be strong enough to lift infinity AND be weaker than Supes in strength(usually).

Or she isn't strong enough.

Originally posted by juggerman
1. It is POSSIBLE (not very probable but still possible) that someone, somewhere, somehow would have written the exact same book. And since it's possible it is included. And again we are talking about possibilities here not what actually happens. So if JK was killed, it still would have been POSSIBLE that if she weren't she would have created HP and and a billion other things as well.

You don't seem to get the implication of the word "possible". That one word is what makes it infinite. You ever hear the phrase "The possibilities are endless"? That's the case here. One single person has the ability to imagine an infinite number of ideas and write them down. Just one person.

But it seems like you are off of the idea that we only consider current Earth bound books and that's a good start.

2. Kinda already answered this but at least we can agree that "all books possible" is a much much much higher number than what you originally tried to calculate. Well beyond anything In DB

3. Comics don't always makes sense but even tho Shazam has his power based on Herc, he is actually stronger than him. Maybe it has to do with him being magical in nature but his feats are above Hercules'

4. Yeah........ Superman from Earth 2 had just flown through a Red Sun and lost his powers. He was basically just an older man at that point. That was a very poor example

As for Doomsday.... well Strength is not durability. For instance, Batman has taken hits from a mind controlled Superman. Doesn't mean he can dish out that kind of power. And Hulk has crazy ass strength feats but he gets cut all the time. Doomsday doesn't have to be stronger that Superman to hurt/kill him. So another poor example but a common enough mistake.

Also you forget that Superman has many different writers and stories that need plot and struggle. One writer may see Superman as weaker than another and that's why you have conflicting feats. DC has addressed this with his mental blocks. Sometimes he can push himself further than other times. So to answer your question, the best way to look at it is Superman has infinite strength but doesn't have access to it at all times. That's why we get him needing help to push a moon but benching the Earth without issue for days on end. He basically is as strong as he needs to be. His strength is a plot device.

The writer clearly stated the book had infinite pages. If it didn't, they would have either made that clear or never stated it did in the first place. You trying to debunk it just shows your biased option here. You want Goku to be stronger but he just doesn't have the feats to compare to Superman's 75+ year history and there is nothing wrong with that.

Also I just realized you tried to use Cell's non canon strength feat as evidence for Goku. Even if the feat were admissible, it isn't tho, it's not a Goku feat. You can't feat swap unless you want me to use feats from Superman's "peers" as evidence for him too. That's a can of worms I'd rather not get in to CM also stated he taps into herc, atlas and zeus at the same time for this feat.

Are people in here actually trying to argue that infinity isnt infinite lol.... this fanboyness has gone too far

Originally posted by ares834
Or she isn't strong enough.

If she helped at all then she is strong enough. Infinity divided by anything is infinity. It is exactly like 0 in that regard.

Lifting infinity isn't really quantifiable and honestly is the same vein as Percy Jackson holding up the sky(or Atlas, if you prefer to use the myth). It definitely doesn't make sense if one tries to tie it into the idea that Supes is stronger than WW. There is not a doubt in my mind that Superman is stronger than Diana but if she played any role, period, in lifting something with infinite mass then she has lifted something with infinite mass in it's entirety.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
If she helped at all then she is strong enough. Infinity divided by anything is infinity. It is exactly like 0 in that regard.

Lifting infinity isn't really quantifiable and honestly is the same vein as Percy Jackson holding up the sky(or Atlas, if you prefer to use the myth). It definitely doesn't make sense if one tries to tie it into the idea that Supes is stronger than WW. There is not a doubt in my mind that Superman is stronger than Diana but if she played any role, period, in lifting something with infinite mass then she has lifted something with infinite mass in it's entirety.

Let's say you lift 1000 tons out of infinity, sure you struggle, and the other person lifts the rest of infinity, how much did you lift?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman doesn't have infinite strength. Arguing he does based on an extreme, extremely contextual situation doesn't make sense.

He's really, REALLY strong, but tbh it's best to leave things like that out of debates, imo.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Let's say you lift 1000 tons out of infinity, sure you struggle, and the other person lifts the rest of infinity, how much did you lift?

You lifted infinity, not 1000 tons lol.

It's the same reason people can't discredit Supes for having help. Half of infinity is still infinity. Likewise, even if WW only lifted 1%, she is still lifting infinity.

You could take Superman's best quantifiable feat and take it to the 10th power and it would still not come close to infinity. That is the purpose of the number.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
You lifted infinity, not 1000 tons lol.

It's the same reason people can't discredit Supes for having help. Half of infinity is still infinity. Likewise, even if WW only lifted 1%, she is still lifting infinity.

You could take Superman's best quantifiable feat and take it to the 10th power and it would still not come close to infinity. That is the purpose of the number.

Try to understand this. Superman is about to lift infinity and he asks you to help him do it. You put everything you got into it, you know you can lift about 250 lb. So how many % out of infinity did you lift? You surely did put enough force into it to lift 250lb.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
If she helped at all then she is strong enough. Infinity divided by anything is infinity. It is exactly like 0 in that regard.

Lifting infinity isn't really quantifiable and honestly is the same vein as Percy Jackson holding up the sky(or Atlas, if you prefer to use the myth). It definitely doesn't make sense if one tries to tie it into the idea that Supes is stronger than WW. There is not a doubt in my mind that Superman is stronger than Diana but if she played any role, period, in lifting something with infinite mass then she has lifted something with infinite mass in it's entirety.

Yes, I know how math works. Thank you. My point was she may not have lifted any "division" of it at all. In other words, she wasn't helping in any real tangible way. Also some forms of infinity are "larger" than others.

Edit: Not saying this feat should be used in debates though.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Try to understand this. Superman is about to lift infinity and he asks you to help him do it. You put everything you got into it, you know you can lift about 250 lb. So how many % out of infinity did you lift? You surely did put enough force into it to lift 250lb.

I won't be lifting 250 pounds. I'd be lifting infinite pounds. Supes also won't be lifting infinity-250 pounds but lifting infinite pounds.

Do I have a problem with the idea of Supes lifting that much? Not particularly. But the author made a conscience decision to have two characters working together to lift infinite mass. Maybe they thought it would be something like WW getting 30% while Supes got the rest but that isn't how infinity works. There is no dividing infinity among any amount of individuals that will make it less infinite on each person.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Try to understand this. Superman is about to lift infinity and he asks you to help him do it. You put everything you got into it, you know you can lift about 250 lb. So how many % out of infinity did you lift? You surely did put enough force into it to lift 250lb.

I see what you're getting at. Essentially, this is assuming Superman did ALL the work, and Captain Marvel or Wonder Woman gave all the help of a 3 year old trying to help a full grown man push aside a fridge, and his father indulging him.

But that's a pretty shaky assumption, given Cap and WW are powerhouses in their own right. You could as easily argue they could have lifted that book themselves.

Well Supes is above them and if could only be one to do it they'd best pick Supes. But yeah the intent seems to be the superpowered beings combined their strengths to lift infinity. Somehow.

This is why I don't read comics. That and I've always been eh on the art of a lot of them.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Let's say you lift 1000 tons out of infinity, sure you struggle, and the other person lifts the rest of infinity, how much did you lift?

Finite numbers don't make up infinity. Infinite numbers make up infinity. Imagine the biggest number you know, and multiply that by itself, and infinity is still INFINITELY larger than it.

There is no such thing as, "1000 tons out of infinity". 100% of infinity is infinite. 0.000000000000000000000000000000001% of infinity IS INFINITE. That is the nature of infinity. It is immeasurable.

Meaning that since Shazam lifted the same thing as Superman did, he is equally as strong as Superman, which has always been fairly true. But that also means that they lifted a finite weight, as Wonder Woman is stronger Shazam.

Either Shazam is equally as strong as Superman, and Wonder Woman is stronger than both of them, and can lift MORE than infinite weight, OR NEITHER LIFTED INFINITE WEIGHT.

The correct answer is the latter.

Lifting half of infinity=infinity but if you BARELY lift it then you arent even in the Infinity strength class.

Originally posted by BeyonderGod
Lifting half of infinity=infinity but if you BARELY lift it then you arent even in the Infinity strength class. What

Originally posted by One Big Mob
What
Wasn't speaking another language.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
I won't be lifting 250 pounds. I'd be lifting infinite pounds. Supes also won't be lifting infinity-250 pounds but lifting infinite pounds.

No, you lifted 250 pounds. You just aren't lifting any percentage of the weight.

Why are you guys arguing super dubious strength feats. One was a magical book in which we could see its form thus not infinite and the earth held up Spector so, lol infinite strength earth...

Superman is in real feats massively stronger than anyone in dbz to the point he can lift more than they could destroy and destroy as much as they can destroy with his beams.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Why are you guys arguing super dubious strength feats. One was a magical book in which we could see its form thus not infinite and the earth held up Spector so, lol infinite strength earth...

Superman is in real feats massively stronger than anyone in dbz to the point he can lift more than they could destroy and destroy as much as they can destroy with his beams.

This is a very good post.

Originally posted by ares834
No, you lifted 250 pounds. You just aren't lifting any percentage of the weight.

You most certainly did lift a percentage of infinity lol.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Why are you guys arguing super dubious strength feats. One was a magical book in which we could see its form thus not infinite and the earth held up Spector so, lol infinite strength earth...

Superman is in real feats massively stronger than anyone in dbz to the point he can lift more than they could destroy and destroy as much as they can destroy with his beams.

Idk why either.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
You most certainly did lift a percentage of infinity lol.

No. Lol

Any real finite number divided by infinity is 0.

Edit: Technically it "approaches" to 0 and you can't really divide by infinity as it's not a number. But I digress.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Finite numbers don't make up infinity. Infinite numbers make up infinity. Imagine the biggest number you know, and multiply that by itself, and infinity is still INFINITELY larger than it.

There is no such thing as, "1000 tons out of infinity". 100% of infinity is infinite. 0.000000000000000000000000000000001% of infinity IS INFINITE. That is the nature of infinity. It is immeasurable.

Meaning that since Shazam lifted the same thing as Superman did, he is equally as strong as Superman, which has always been fairly true. But that also means that they lifted a finite weight, as Wonder Woman is stronger Shazam.

Either Shazam is equally as strong as Superman, and Wonder Woman is stronger than both of them, and can lift MORE than infinite weight, OR NEITHER LIFTED INFINITE WEIGHT.

The correct answer is the latter.

dur

According to the writer and the on panel feat Superman lifted infinite weight. Fact.

Denial won't help you. Though according to your understanding of my post everything starts to make sense.

Oh and all chars of the db universe together wouldn't be able to even move this book.

We're not dividing anything by infinity. We're dividing infinity by two in this case.

Take a 100 pound object. Two people pulling equal weight on either side are carrying 50 pounds each.

Now take the same object that weighs 100 pounds and let two people carrying it with one clearly much weaker than the other. The weight is still divided evenly but in this case on of them has to account for more than the other. Divide it by, say, 1.6(the point six representing the weaker man). This shows more or less the amount the stronger man would have to move while also showing how much the weaker man would have to move(subtracting it from 100 yields the result).

Infinity doesn't work that way. Infinity divided amongst 2 people, 5, people, 1.000000000000000000001 people would still result in infinity. That is the inherent nature of the number. One can't simply lift 250 pounds of infinity because infinity cannot be subtracted from nor evenly divided. Especially not in any particular quantifiable way.

I mean it's a fine feat. Lifting infinity, even with "help", is a pretty cool thing to do. Also fits the theme of a no limits character. In terms of hard math it falls short because the inherent nature of the number involved. I don't see why this one feat deserves so much focus when Supes has a) really good strength feats with solid numbers and b) it is a physical impossibility that is grounded in theory(like destroying a hole in dimensions and holding up the sky).

I'm dividing by infinity to show you that a person could be lifting weight while simultaneously lifting 0% of it. But we will go with your way instead (although rather than divide by the number I'm going to multiply by the reciprocal).

So lets look at your examples. First the evenly distributed load: 100x(1/2)=50. Second the not evenly distributed load where one man is carrying 5/8ths and the other 3/8ths: 100x(5/8)=62.5

Ok so, lets return to my original point that CM or WW or even you (whichever case you want) potentially aren't lifting any "portion" of the book/specter so effectively they are lifting 0% of it.

Infinity x 0 equals what? It's indeterminate, IE it could be basically anything be that 0 or 250 or infinity. If you want to return to the divided by their portion you would get infinity/infinity which comes out to the same result (I'm dividing by zero as they are lifting an infinitesimally small portion of the weight). What this does show us though is they could still be lifting something but it's not infinite weight instead it's a real number.

And yes, it's an absurd feat to use. I've already said that. I'm just pointing out why your math is wrong.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
We're not dividing anything by infinity. We're dividing infinity by two in this case.

Take a 100 pound object. Two people pulling equal weight on either side are carrying 50 pounds each.

Now take the same object that weighs 100 pounds and let two people carrying it with one clearly much weaker than the other. The weight is still divided evenly but in this case on of them has to account for more than the other. Divide it by, say, 1.6(the point six representing the weaker man). This shows more or less the amount the stronger man would have to move while also showing how much the weaker man would have to move(subtracting it from 100 yields the result).

Infinity doesn't work that way. Infinity divided amongst 2 people, 5, people, 1.000000000000000000001 people would still result in infinity. That is the inherent nature of the number. One can't simply lift 250 pounds of infinity because infinity cannot be subtracted from nor evenly divided. Especially not in any particular quantifiable way.

I mean it's a fine feat. Lifting infinity, even with "help", is a pretty cool thing to do. Also fits the theme of a no limits character. In terms of hard math it falls short because the inherent nature of the number involved. I don't see why this one feat deserves so much focus when Supes has a) really good strength feats with solid numbers and b) it is a physical impossibility that is grounded in theory(like destroying a hole in dimensions and holding up the sky).

if two people lift infinity and one contributes 250 lb worth of force and the other an infinite amount of force it doesn't mean thatthe 250 guy has infinite strength. He lifted 250 out of infinity which is as good as zero, lim --> infinity, 250/x...

For your example, infinity/(a+b) = infinity. a=250, b=infinity

Your second point is wrong.

Originally posted by ares834
Your second point is wrong.

No. Infinity is not a number . But pls enlighten me what you would put there as a result? 1? Or 0?

Like I said in the post above you, infinity / infinity is indeterminate. It could be infinity it could be 1 or it could be a different number all together. We would need more information to find the solution.

Also, Aura wasn't dividing by what they lifted but rather dividing by the reciprical of the percentage they lifted.

Originally posted by ares834
Like I said in the post above you, infinity / infinity is indeterminate. It could be infinity it could be 1 or it could be a different number all together. We would need more information to find the solution.

Also, Aura wasn't dividing by what they lifted but rather dividing by the reciprical of the percentage they lifted.

I do still not understand how you jump from could be to wrong.

Ok, give him a percentage. Infinity/

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
I do still not understand how you jump from could be to wrong.

Because that's how it works. If you don't have enough information then you can't say definitively it's a specific number.

Originally posted by ares834
Because that's how it works. If you don't have enough information then you can't say definitively it's a specific number.

And i.never did because infinity is not a specufic number.

Semantics. You gave a specific solution to an indeterminate problem. You were wrong.

Originally posted by ares834
Semantics. You gave a specific solution to an indeterminate problem. You were wrong.

Concession accepted.

Resorting to Quan tactics now. Nice.

Originally posted by ares834
Resorting to Quan tactics now. Nice.



No, i just don't want to waste more time with someone who stumbles upon his own words.


But believe in whatever makes you feel better.

Doesn't change he the fact that you were wrong and anyone with access to google will see so.

Originally posted by ares834
Doesn't change he the fact that you were wrong and anyone with access to google will see so.

You needed Google? Explains everything.

dur

Maybe you should have used it before spreading incorrect information. It's laughable how defensive you get when someone points put you're wrong.

Originally posted by ares834
Maybe you should have used it before spreading incorrect information. It's laughable how defensive you get when someone points put you're wrong.

It's funny how you contradict yourself without even seeing it. But you can have the last word Mr. Google, people like you need it .

Maybe you should have pointed out the contradiction instead. As it is, you're obvious attempt at deflecting the fact that you were wrong failed.

Someone help me with this:

Is the book's weight was infinite, and Superman lifted it, wouldn't that mean his strength is greater than infinite? If his strength was infinite, shouldn't the weight of the book cancel out his strength? Kind of like someone trying to pick up Thor's hammer?

Yes I'm aware Superman having greater than infinite strength makes no sense but we're talking about comic books here.

Originally posted by juggerman
Someone help me with this:

Is the book's weight was infinite, and Superman lifted it, wouldn't that mean his strength is greater than infinite? If his strength was infinite, shouldn't the weight of the book cancel out his strength? Kind of like someone trying to pick up Thor's hammer?

Yes I'm aware Superman having greater than infinite strength makes no sense but we're talking about comic books here.

In Comic Book logic you can only go with what you see, Supermans/Shazams (or Ultramans) infinite plot device strength was enough to move an infinite weight. There should be nothing greater than infinite, even in comics, but well, who knows.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
In Comic Book logic you can only go with what you see, Supermans/Shazams (or Ultramans) infinite plot device strength was enough to move an infinite weight. There should be nothing greater than infinite, even in comics, but well, who knows.

That's why I asked. Infinite should cancel infinite out. But meh maybe I'm over thinking this

No it shouldn't. It can but it doesn't have to. There are different "sizes" of infinity.

Originally posted by ares834
No it shouldn't. It can but it doesn't have to. There are different "sizes" of infinity.


lmaooo 😂😂😂😂😂

sizes would make infinity finite

Hence my use of quotes. But some infinities are "larger" than others.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
dur

According to the writer and the on panel feat Superman lifted infinite weight. Fact.

Denial won't help you. Though according to your understanding of my post everything starts to make sense.

Oh and all chars of the db universe together wouldn't be able to even move this book.

clapping

Keep in mind that it doesn't matter. Either Superman and Shazam both have infinite strength, or neither of them do. And since Superman needed help to lift infinite weight, he clearly cannot lift infinite weight, as it would have been the same weight, regardless if Shazam AND him could lift infinite weight. Are you retarded or something? This is very simple arithmetic here.

The only one in denial are the people, like you, saying Superman can lift infinite weight, while CLEARLY ignoring the fact that he DIDN'T.

Oh, and Goku would be able to lift the book by himself. The only lowball feat of strength you have to go on, is Goku struggling with 400 tons. IN WHICH THE AUTHOR STATED HE DIDN'T EVEN USE KI. Because you train ki with meditation, and you train your body with weights. Meaning that Goku's RAW strength is capable of lifting 400 tons in base form. And he has enough ki to fight on par with Bills, who is a CONFIRMED UNIVERSE BUSTER in DBS. So 400 tons + universe strength = ...? Yeah, the only universe buster we've seen in DC is Imperiex, the force of entropy. And he one-shotted Doomsday, who was vastly stronger, and more durable than Superman.

Basically, Bills = Imperiex.

Originally posted by ares834
Hence my use of quotes. But some infinities are "larger" than others.

No. Infinity may seem relatable to integers from a human perspective, but infinity is, "The state, or quality, of having no limits, or end.". Meaning that you SIMPLY CAN'T make a number larger than infinity. Although some people conclude that, by using the decimals of real integers, you can make more numbers than infinity. BUT THAT'S SIMPLY NOT TRUE. Because infinity DOESN'T END.

That is the problem you're having here.

You're seeing infinity as a number, when it is rather a CONCEPT. The quality of being "NEVER-ENDING", means that it NEVER ENDS. Which means that their can be NOTHING greater than it. Only equal TO it. Because what you're suggesting is the same thing as saying, "∞ + 1 = ∞1, lol.", Which isn't true. ∞ + 1 = ∞. This is because ∞ is already never ending, meaning that all numbers that can be integrated into it, already are. Which is why you can't divide infinity by anything, because the numbers it has in it are INFINITE. Meaning that you can divide infinity by ANY number, and it's still infinity.

Which is proof that Superman did NOT lift infinite weight.

Nah, you're wrong. You're treating infinity to simply.

Cantor basically proved that their are more numbers between 0 and 1 then their are integers. Since there are infinite integers, there are effectively some infinities are "bigger" than others. And no, this doesn't have to do with "∞ + 1 = ∞".

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
clapping

Keep in mind that it doesn't matter. Either Superman and Shazam both have infinite strength, or neither of them do. And since Superman needed help to lift infinite weight, he clearly cannot lift infinite weight, as it would have been the same weight, regardless if Shazam AND him could lift infinite weight. Are you retarded or something? This is very simple arithmetic here.

The only one in denial are the people, like you, saying Superman can lift infinite weight, while CLEARLY ignoring the fact that he DIDN'T.

Oh, and Goku would be able to lift the book by himself. The only lowball feat of strength you have to go on, is Goku struggling with 400 tons. IN WHICH THE AUTHOR STATED HE DIDN'T EVEN USE KI. Because you train ki with meditation, and you train your body with weights. Meaning that Goku's RAW strength is capable of lifting 400 tons in base form. And he has enough ki to fight on par with Bills, who is a CONFIRMED UNIVERSE BUSTER in DBS. So 400 tons + universe strength = ...? Yeah, the only universe buster we've seen in DC is Imperiex, the force of entropy. And he one-shotted Doomsday, who was vastly stronger, and more durable than Superman.

Basically, Bills = Imperiex.

Ultraman, a version of Superman lifted it by himself.

The writer stated that it has infinite pages, so Superman lifted infinity, deal with it. What the writer intended and showed on panel is a fact, while your opinion is just the butthurt carried over to kmc because of the latest Deathbattle. But keep on deluding yourself, just stop lying and pretending you can change the canon facts of comics.

The writer's intention was clear. Why are people trying to "debunk" it? The only reason is because it hurts the Goku camp.

The better stance is that while he may have infinite lifting strength, he doesn't seem to have infinite punching power or infinite durability.

Originally posted by ares834
Nah, you're wrong. You're treating infinity to simply.

Cantor basically proved that their are more numbers between 0 and 1 then their are integers. Since there are infinite integers, there are effectively some infinities are "bigger" than others. And no, this doesn't have to do with "∞ + 1 = ∞".

No, YOU'RE wrong. You're treating infinity too complexly.

Cantor only proved that there can't be bijection between all integers, and numbers between 0 and 1 in a set. However, this doesn't prove that there are less numbers in the set of integers, as it does not rule out the possibility that the former are sub-countable.

FURTHER, it raises paradox's in the attempt to further the argument, such as demonstrable through Russell's paradox.

There are plenty of other assertions to debunk this argument, but the existence of a paradox in Cantor's argument flaws it from the ground up.

Essentially, your definition of the term, "infinity", is too reliant on integers being limited, which is not the case.

So again, infinity = infinity.

Originally posted by juggerman
The writer's intention was clear. Why are people trying to "debunk" it? The only reason is because it hurts the Goku camp.

The better stance is that while he may have infinite lifting strength, he doesn't seem to have infinite punching power or infinite durability.

The writers intention doesn't matter.

If he makes the characters unable to do something on their own, then they cannot do something on their own.

And since Shazam and Superman BOTH lifted the book, it proves that the book did not weight infinite weight, as NO MATTER HOW YOU SLICE IT, INFINITY DIVIDED BY 2, IS INFINITY.

Meaning that Shazam is either as strong as Superman, and they both lifted infinite weight, or Shazam was strong enough to assist Superman, and neither lifted infinite weight. WHICH IS THE OBVIOUS CASE.

Regardless of the writer's intention, he/she should have read up on their facts before trying to suggest that infinity can be divided to become smaller.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Ultraman, a version of Superman lifted it by himself.

The writer stated that it has infinite pages, so Superman lifted infinity, deal with it. What the writer intended and showed on panel is a fact, while your opinion is just the butthurt carried over to kmc because of the latest Deathbattle. But keep on deluding yourself, just stop lying and pretending you can change the canon facts of comics.

Do you have the scan, first off?

Secondly, even if Ultraman lifted it himself, it proves nothing, other than the weight of the book is finite.

If Shazam lifted 1% of it's weight, and provided enough strength for Superman to lift the weight, it means that NOT ONLY was Superman not lifting at full strength, which means that since infinite weight can only be lifted by infinite strength that the weight was not infinite, but ALSO that Shazam lifted a PERCENTAGE of the weight. And since any percentage of infinity is infinity, it means that the weight was finite, since Shazam does not have infinite strength. Meaning that Superman doesn't either.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
No, YOU'RE wrong. You're treating infinity too complexly.

Cantor only proved that there can't be bijection between all integers, and numbers between 0 and 1 in a set. However, this doesn't prove that there are less numbers in the set of integers, as it does not rule out the possibility that the former are sub-countable.

FURTHER, it raises paradox's in the attempt to further the argument, such as demonstrable through Russell's paradox.

There are plenty of other assertions to debunk this argument, but the existence of a paradox in Cantor's argument flaws it from the ground up.

Essentially, your definition of the term, "infinity", is too reliant on integers being limited, which is not the case.

So again, infinity = infinity.

Lol

You clearly have no clue what you are talking about. Not only are you pretty much quoting wiki verbatim at times, but you are completely misunderstanding what the paradox is. It is not a paradox in Cantor's diagonal proof (proof not argument) but rather a paradox formed in a similar manner. And everything after that I has nothing to do with anything I said. Integers being limited? Wut? I never said or implied that.

Originally posted by ares834
Lol

You clearly have no clue what you are talking about. Not only are you pretty much quoting wiki verbatim at times, but you are completely misunderstanding what the paradox is. It is not a paradox in Cantor's diagonal proof (proof not argument) but rather a paradox formed in a similar manner. And everything after that I has nothing to do with anything I said. Integers being limited? Wut? I never said or implied that.

You're relying solely on Cantor's argument(Yes, it is an ARGUMENT, as in, it is a theory, nothing more), which is based on integers being limited.

And the paradox is formed in Cantor's argument.

"The proof of Cantor's theorem is straightforwardly adapted to show that assuming a set of all sets U exists, then considering its Russell set RU leads to the contradiction:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/math/a/d/1/ad1997bf0e373fd017b07fb9b185d804.png

"This argument is known as Russell's paradox. As a point of subtlety, the version of Russell's paradox we have presented here is actually a theorem of Zermelo; we can conclude from the contradiction obtained that we must reject the hypothesis that RU∈U, thus disproving the existence of a set containing all sets. This was possible because we have used restricted comprehension (as featured in ZFC) in the definition of RA above, which in turn entailed that-"

https://upload.wikimedia.org/math/c/8/b/c8bf678d9fbf6ca71a860746053665c4.png

^Funny Mr. Google vs Mr. Wiki *grabspopcorn* .
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Do you have the scan, first off?

Secondly, even if Ultraman lifted it himself, it proves nothing, other than the weight of the book is finite.

If Shazam lifted 1% of it's weight, and provided enough strength for Superman to lift the weight, it means that NOT ONLY was Superman not lifting at full strength, which means that since infinite weight can only be lifted by infinite strength that the weight was not infinite, but ALSO that Shazam lifted a PERCENTAGE of the weight. And since any percentage of infinity is infinity, it means that the weight was finite, since Shazam does not have infinite strength. Meaning that Superman doesn't either.


Regardless of the writer's intention, he/she should have read up on their facts before trying to suggest that infinity can be divided to become smaller.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111138490/4187151-4956899914-Super.jpg

It proofs that it's finite? Lol, you are talking out of your ass in desperation now. The writer clearly told us that the books has infinite pages and as such is infinite heavy, the intention was clear.

Ok, first Superman as a good guy doesn't takes risks, he takes help if it lowers those risks, and the risk was the whole creation. Second, taken ON PANEL feats and WRITER FACTS, you can make an argument for one of the two cases, with which I have no problem at all:

a) Shazam and Superman are peers, they both have infinite strength and each one lifted half of infinity which is still infinity.

b) Shazam lifted as much as he could, his max limit, let's say it is 200 Septillion tons. Either he has infinite strength or he doesn't, if he doesn't he has to have a max strength, so we can take any number as it won't matter at all as you will see. So we now need the percentage of infinity he lifted, this would be (200 Septillion tons)/infinity, which is? See, the rest was lifted by Superman.

In both cases, which are the only options you have in order to argue with the ON PANEL STATEMENT, WRITER STATEMENT, FACT, you have still an infinite weight and infinite strength of Superman, Ultraman (alternate version of Superman) and maybe Shazam.

The writer can do whatever he wants in comics, if you take the RL argument into account you can dump any comic/manga/fiction. If the writer wants to have infinity divided by two and still require infinite strength it is not up to you to decide if it is canon or not, writer > you. Got it? Especially since infinity is a concept/theory and can be approached in differen't ways, especially in fiction (comis).

Something to educate you further on the Final Crisis:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/85444/2653971-final_crisis_07_page_028_029.jpg

Morrison took all the heroes who were inspired by Superman (copies of Superman) in his Supermen of the Multiverse "team". This is the reason why Billy is also there and can be seen also as an alternate version of Superman.

To further show you the place Superman has in the DC Verse:
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff492/twinzeeto/Supes/InfiniteCrisis0523_zps1e098ad6.jpg~original

Everything comes from Superman, on panel.

I know you can't stand that they let Superman win again and that Goku will never be able to beat him, ok, but don't go around spilling lies and pretending you know better what the writer wanted to say, even though it is clear as day what he told us, in order to "prove" that this DB was wrong on all accounts and Goku wins.

Again, the writers intention was to show that Superman can do the impossible, succeed even against impossible odds, containing the uncontainable, lifting the infinite weight. Infinity is only a mean to show the limits of something and that's why it was chosen by Morrision to show that there is no limit to Superman (the good, the story) if it's required to beat the evil.

Originally posted by ares834
Hence my use of quotes. But some infinities are "larger" than others.

that literally makes no sense

infinity doesn't have a size it goes on forever

Originally posted by yungz22
that literally makes no sense

infinity doesn't have a size it goes on forever

a) You beginn to count from 1 till infinity, how many numbers do you have?

b) You go from 1 backwards, to 0, -1 till -infinity AND forward as in a, how many numbers do you have?

c) You go in between 1 and 2, - 1,1 - 1,01 - 1,001 - etc. till infinity, how many number do you have bewteen 1 and 2?


Now what is the "bigger" infinity? a (1 ; infinity) is part o b (-infinity ; infinity+), c ( ]1;2[ ) is part of a and b.

Originally posted by ares834
Lol

You clearly have no clue what you are talking about. Not only are you pretty much quoting wiki verbatim at times, but you are completely misunderstanding what the paradox is. It is not a paradox in Cantor's diagonal proof (proof not argument) but rather a paradox formed in a similar manner. And everything after that I has nothing to do with anything I said. Integers being limited? Wut? I never said or implied that.

I knew Gogeta was a complete troll, he's been regurgitating shitapedia for a while, glad someone else caught on.

What a loser.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
The writers intention doesn't matter.

Stopped reading. The writers intention is all that matters here. Much more than your opinion. Infinite pages was clearly stated. No way around it

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta

The writers intention doesn't matter.





What a joke clownshoes, I guess your opinion>writers.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
^Funny Mr. Google vs Mr. Wiki *grabspopcorn* .


http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111138490/4187151-4956899914-Super.jpg

It proofs that it's finite? Lol, you are talking out of your ass in desperation now. The writer clearly told us that the books has infinite pages and as such is infinite heavy, the intention was clear.

Ok, first Superman as a good guy doesn't takes risks, he takes help if it lowers those risks, and the risk was the whole creation. Second, taken ON PANEL feats and WRITER FACTS, you can make an argument for one of the two cases, with which I have no problem at all:

a) Shazam and Superman are peers, they both have infinite strength and each one lifted half of infinity which is still infinity.

b) Shazam lifted as much as he could, his max limit, let's say it is 200 Septillion tons. Either he has infinite strength or he doesn't, if he doesn't he has to have a max strength, so we can take any number as it won't matter at all as you will see. So we now need the percentage of infinity he lifted, this would be (200 Septillion tons)/infinity, which is? See, the rest was lifted by Superman.

In both cases, which are the only options you have in order to argue with the ON PANEL STATEMENT, WRITER STATEMENT, FACT, you have still an infinite weight and infinite strength of Superman, Ultraman (alternate version of Superman) and maybe Shazam.

The writer can do whatever he wants in comics, if you take the RL argument into account you can dump any comic/manga/fiction. If the writer wants to have infinity divided by two and still require infinite strength it is not up to you to decide if it is canon or not, writer > you. Got it? Especially since infinity is a concept/theory and can be approached in differen't ways, especially in fiction (comis).

Something to educate you further on the Final Crisis:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/85444/2653971-final_crisis_07_page_028_029.jpg

Morrison took all the heroes who were inspired by Superman (copies of Superman) in his Supermen of the Multiverse "team". This is the reason why Billy is also there and can be seen also as an alternate version of Superman.

To further show you the place Superman has in the DC Verse:
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff492/twinzeeto/Supes/InfiniteCrisis0523_zps1e098ad6.jpg~original

Everything comes from Superman, on panel.

I know you can't stand that they let Superman win again and that Goku will never be able to beat him, ok, but don't go around spilling lies and pretending you know better what the writer wanted to say, even though it is clear as day what he told us, in order to "prove" that this DB was wrong on all accounts and Goku wins.

Again, the writers intention was to show that Superman can do the impossible, succeed even against impossible odds, containing the uncontainable, lifting the infinite weight. Infinity is only a mean to show the limits of something and that's why it was chosen by Morrision to show that there is no limit to Superman (the good, the story) if it's required to beat the evil.

How do you read the end of an infinite book?

Comic logic

Originally posted by cdtm
How do you read the end of an infinite book?

This was one of the points of FC, Ultraman and Mandrakk have both read it, but evil only sees what it wants to see, they had every book possible in their possesion and read only that parts (chapters) that had their "ending" the evil ending. This was the point of the machine with the infinite memory, this was the way for superman to find the "good" ending, the perfect ending against all odds, that the evil didn't see.

Gogeta your literally arguing against the english language at this point. you cant chagr the definition of infinity just because you dont like it.

your famboyism knows no bounds.

Originally posted by yungz22
Gogeta your literally arguing against the english language at this point. you cant chagr the definition of infinity just because you dont like it.

your famboyism knows no bounds.

Originally posted by cdtm
How do you read the end of an infinite book?

You don't.

Even Spiderman could probably lift the damn thing.

Originally posted by yungz22
Gogeta your literally arguing against the english language at this point. you cant chagr the definition of infinity just because you dont like it.

your famboyism knows no bounds.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
^Funny Mr. Google vs Mr. Wiki *grabspopcorn* .


http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111138490/4187151-4956899914-Super.jpg

It proofs that it's finite? Lol, you are talking out of your ass in desperation now. The writer clearly told us that the books has infinite pages and as such is infinite heavy, the intention was clear.

Ok, first Superman as a good guy doesn't takes risks, he takes help if it lowers those risks, and the risk was the whole creation. Second, taken ON PANEL feats and WRITER FACTS, you can make an argument for one of the two cases, with which I have no problem at all:

a) Shazam and Superman are peers, they both have infinite strength and each one lifted half of infinity which is still infinity.

b) Shazam lifted as much as he could, his max limit, let's say it is 200 Septillion tons. Either he has infinite strength or he doesn't, if he doesn't he has to have a max strength, so we can take any number as it won't matter at all as you will see. So we now need the percentage of infinity he lifted, this would be (200 Septillion tons)/infinity, which is? See, the rest was lifted by Superman.

In both cases, which are the only options you have in order to argue with the ON PANEL STATEMENT, WRITER STATEMENT, FACT, you have still an infinite weight and infinite strength of Superman, Ultraman (alternate version of Superman) and maybe Shazam.

The writer can do whatever he wants in comics, if you take the RL argument into account you can dump any comic/manga/fiction. If the writer wants to have infinity divided by two and still require infinite strength it is not up to you to decide if it is canon or not, writer > you. Got it? Especially since infinity is a concept/theory and can be approached in differen't ways, especially in fiction (comis).

Something to educate you further on the Final Crisis:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/85444/2653971-final_crisis_07_page_028_029.jpg

Morrison took all the heroes who were inspired by Superman (copies of Superman) in his Supermen of the Multiverse "team". This is the reason why Billy is also there and can be seen also as an alternate version of Superman.

To further show you the place Superman has in the DC Verse:
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff492/twinzeeto/Supes/InfiniteCrisis0523_zps1e098ad6.jpg~original

Everything comes from Superman, on panel.

I know you can't stand that they let Superman win again and that Goku will never be able to beat him, ok, but don't go around spilling lies and pretending you know better what the writer wanted to say, even though it is clear as day what he told us, in order to "prove" that this DB was wrong on all accounts and Goku wins.

Again, the writers intention was to show that Superman can do the impossible, succeed even against impossible odds, containing the uncontainable, lifting the infinite weight. Infinity is only a mean to show the limits of something and that's why it was chosen by Morrision to show that there is no limit to Superman (the good, the story) if it's required to beat the evil.

That whole scan you just posted PROVES that I'm right. If the book was infinite, THERE WOULDN'T BE AN END TO IT.

The entire argument you just posted is an argument that argues MY point, lol. If everyone reads a different book INSIDE the book of infinity, then only ONE book exists in it at a time. This follows cannon, since limbo is where "matter and memory cease to exist", meaning that it might have infinite books, but only one exists at a time. Good job, genius. You pretty much just proved my whole argument right.

And fyi, here's Merryman even stating that there is only one book in it at a time.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11113/111138490/4208713-2688980077-b3COv.jpg

First, Superman has taken risks PLENTY of times. He takes a risk every time he lets a bad guy walk away, without killing them.

Secondly, YES, those ARE the two arguments you can make. So I'll show you AGAIN why BOTH are wrong.

1. If Shazam and Superman are both infinitely powerful, then what does that make Wonder Woman? Shazam has the strength of Hercules, and Wonder Woman is EXPLICITLY STRONGER than Hercules. You can NOT be stronger than an infinite strength. It just doesn't work that way. So this argument is clearly bogus, as Shazam is weaker than Wonder Woman, who couldn't even move the War World.

2. This argument is EQUALLY silly, lol. Shazam RELIEVED the strain from Superman, AS SUPERMAN EVEN STATED. Meaning that if Shazam was lifting even just a tiny 0.00000000000000000000001% of the book, he was STILL lifting infinity.

So in both cases, the weight HAS to be finite, otherwise, Shazam's help wouldn't have mattered. And Superman would have told him to stay away, since Shazam was dying just from holding it. His skull started ringing the second they picked it up, for christ sake. So Superman obviously NEEDED his help, or he wouldn't have put the ten year old Billy Batson in danger of dying, now would he?

Originally posted by yungz22
Gogeta your literally arguing against the english language at this point. you cant chagr the definition of infinity just because you dont like it.

your famboyism knows no bounds.

If that's what you think, then you clearly don't know what the definition of infinity is.

"The state or quality of being infinite.", that is the definition of the word infinity. Meaning that if the book WAS infinite, there would BE no end to it, meaning that Ultraman himself proved that it was FINITE.

I don't know why I'm explaining this to the short bus driver anyway, I'm just wasting my time with you.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
a) You beginn to count from 1 till infinity, how many numbers do you have?

b) You go from 1 backwards, to 0, -1 till -infinity AND forward as in a, how many numbers do you have?

c) You go in between 1 and 2, - 1,1 - 1,01 - 1,001 - etc. till infinity, how many number do you have bewteen 1 and 2?


Now what is the "bigger" infinity? a (1 ; infinity) is part o b (-infinity ; infinity+), c ( ]1;2

NONE ARE BIGGER. They are all three INFINITE.

That is your problem. You're imagining infinity as a set of finite numbers, when it is STRICTLY LIMITLESS BY DEFINITION.

In all three of the settings you just brought up, the numbers would go on until infinity, and be INFINITE. There is no upper limit to infinity, AS IT IS ENDLESS, BY DEFINITION.

I've already proven you wrong on this, so there's no point in furthering this ridiculous, third grade interpretation of a word, just so you can make your favorite character look like a badass.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
That whole scan you just posted PROVES that I'm right. If the book was infinite, THERE WOULDN'T BE AN END TO IT.

The entire argument you just posted is an argument that argues MY point, lol. If everyone reads a different book INSIDE the book of infinity, then only ONE book exists in it at a time. This follows cannon, since limbo is where "matter and memory cease to exist", meaning that it might have infinite books, but only one exists at a time. Good job, genius. You pretty much just proved my whole argument right.

And fyi, here's Merryman even stating that there is only one book in it at a time.

First, Superman has taken risks PLENTY of times. He takes a risk every time he lets a bad guy walk away, without killing them.

Secondly, YES, those ARE the two arguments you can make. So I'll show you AGAIN why BOTH are wrong.

1. If Shazam and Superman are both infinitely powerful, then what does that make Wonder Woman? Shazam has the strength of Hercules, and Wonder Woman is EXPLICITLY STRONGER than Hercules. You can NOT be stronger than an infinite strength. It just doesn't work that way. So this argument is clearly bogus, as Shazam is weaker than Wonder Woman, who couldn't even move the War World.

2. This argument is EQUALLY silly, lol. Shazam RELIEVED the strain from Superman, AS SUPERMAN EVEN STATED. Meaning that if Shazam was lifting even just a tiny 0.00000000000000000000001% of the book, he was STILL lifting infinity.

So in both cases, the weight HAS to be finite, otherwise, Shazam's help wouldn't have mattered. And Superman would have told him to stay away, since Shazam was dying just from holding it. His skull started ringing the second they picked it up, for christ sake. So Superman obviously NEEDED his help, or he wouldn't have put the ten year old Billy Batson in danger of dying, now would he?

facepalm Seriously dude, read the comic before wasting more of my time and making an even bigger fool out of yourself...

There is no end to it. There are multiple ends, an infinite number of them to be exact. Do you even understand what this is all about? I doubt it. The book contains every book possible, an infinite number of pages occupying the same space, this is clear stated, canon, fact. It has infinite pages, no one can read it. If it would be only a single book at a time you could read it till the end, but you can't, Ultraman read only the part he wanted to read. That's why the machine with infinite memory was needed. If it would be only a book at a time you wouldn't need a machine with infinite memory, that can read an infinite number of pages AT ONCE, which proves that the infinite pages always exist, as stated on panel. There are INFINITE PAGES IN THE BOOK "AT ONCE", at the same time. The whole point of it. You are clearly not a Genius and you are now desperate. Still I cleared this flaw in your thinking. Ultraman read a final chapter, the believed to be the final chapter btw, not the whole book, and the wrong one as we can see at the end of Final Crisis, as an infinite number of those books, stories is in this one story. Guess whose story?

Oh god, seriously? The whole Multiverse is in jeopardy...

1. Jesus christ, read the goddamn book and stop trolling. Shazam uses not only Hercules strength, he amps himself further with Atlas Stamina and the power of Zeus. He can combine this to amp his strength. So he can be stronger than Hercules.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11120/111200299/4235528-superman+beyond+01+page+022.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3662657-arm+wrestle+1.jpg

2. Just to get sure you got all your senses... what is 200Septillion/Infinity?

I already proved you wrong multiple times. The only one believing that YOUR, and your only, "wishful thinking" is right are you. Everyone else goes with the writer statement, intent, that according to you is not as valid as your "theory".

I think you are a raging lost case tbh. It goes like this:

You: Goku should have won because reasons and Superman booh, the book not infinite.
Me: You are wrong, here is the reason.
You: I say you nay! Not infinite!
Me: Look at this scan.
You: I say you nay!*closes eyes. Not infinite! You no proof!
Me: Here is the proof.
You: I say you nay! I see nothing! Here is my Logic!
Me: Explains why "Logic" is flawed.
You: I say you nay! *closes ears and eyes*. Math!
Me: Your Math is weak, this is correct.
You: I say you nay! Writer is dumb!
Me: Writer > You.
You: I say you nay! Impossible!
Me: Comics are fiction, the impossible becomes possible.
You: I say you nay! *ragemode*

How can you even debate with someone who closes his eyes and ears to reason, scans, facts and the actual comic and disagrees just to repeat his own opinion which is plain and simple as wrong as a cactus in the anus of a pitbull...

To make it really simple for you:
How can something be infinite?
In comics it can.
But why?
Because the writer wants it.
But it's impossible isn't it?
It's a comic, fiction and in fiction everything is possible, even the impossible.

So deal with it. And do us all a favor and read Final Crisis, at least once, better yet 10 times, till you understand it before trolling us further with your nonsense.

And yes, I will report you from now on.

Never though that Final Crisis was that hard to understand, I feel like teaching a 1 year old to read shakespear...

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
If that's what you think, then you clearly don't know what the definition of infinity is.

"The state or quality of being infinite.", that is the definition of the word infinity. Meaning that if the book WAS infinite, there would BE no end to it, meaning that Ultraman himself proved that it was FINITE.

I don't know why I'm explaining this to the short bus driver anyway, I'm just wasting my time with you.



NONE ARE BIGGER. They are all three INFINITE.

That is your problem. You're imagining infinity as a set of finite numbers, when it is STRICTLY LIMITLESS BY DEFINITION.

In all three of the settings you just brought up, the numbers would go on until infinity, and be INFINITE. There is no upper limit to infinity, AS IT IS ENDLESS, BY DEFINITION.

I've already proven you wrong on this, so there's no point in furthering this ridiculous, third grade interpretation of a word, just so you can make your favorite character look like a badass.


facepalm

1. My reply was not directed at you.
2. You don't understand infinity it seems.
3. My reply was humor, as someone with a bit of reason could have guessed, looking at the icons.
4. Maybe you should really stick to reading DB Mangas, they are simple enough to comprehend after all.

dur

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
If that's what you think, then you clearly don't know what the definition of infinity is.

"The state or quality of being infinite.", that is the definition of the word infinity. Meaning that if the book WAS infinite, there would BE no end to it, meaning that Ultraman himself proved that it was FINITE.

I don't know why I'm explaining this to the short bus driver anyway, I'm just wasting my time with you.



NONE ARE BIGGER. They are all three INFINITE.

That is your problem. You're imagining infinity as a set of finite numbers, when it is STRICTLY LIMITLESS BY DEFINITION.

In all three of the settings you just brought up, the numbers would go on until infinity, and be INFINITE. There is no upper limit to infinity, AS IT IS ENDLESS, BY DEFINITION.

I've already proven you wrong on this, so there's no point in furthering this ridiculous, third grade interpretation of a word, just so you can make your favorite character look like a badass.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
facepalm

1. My reply was not directed at you.
2. You don't understand infinity it seems.
3. My reply was humor, as someone with a bit of reason could have guessed, looking at the icons.
4. Maybe you should really stick to reading DB Mangas, they are simple enough to comprehend after all.

dur

Don't get worked up, Gogeta's opinion comes from regurgitated shitopedia.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
facepalm Seriously dude, read the comic before wasting more of my time and making an even bigger fool out of yourself...

There is no end to it. There are multiple ends, an infinite number of them to be exact. Do you even understand what this is all about? I doubt it. The book contains every book possible, an infinite number of pages occupying the same space, this is clear stated, canon, fact. It has infinite pages, no one can read it. If it would be only a single book at a time you could read it till the end, but you can't, Ultraman read only the part he wanted to read. That's why the machine with infinite memory was needed. If it would be only a book at a time you wouldn't need a machine with infinite memory, that can read an infinite number of pages AT ONCE, which proves that the infinite pages always exist, as stated on panel. There are INFINITE PAGES IN THE BOOK "AT ONCE", at the same time. The whole point of it. You are clearly not a Genius and you are now desperate. Still I cleared this flaw in your thinking. Ultraman read a final chapter, the believed to be the final chapter btw, not the whole book, and the wrong one as we can see at the end of Final Crisis, as an infinite number of those books, stories is in this one story. Guess whose story?

Oh god, seriously? The whole Multiverse is in jeopardy...

1. Jesus christ, read the goddamn book and stop trolling. Shazam uses not only Hercules strength, he amps himself further with Atlas Stamina and the power of Zeus. He can combine this to amp his strength. So he can be stronger than Hercules.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11120/111200299/4235528-superman+beyond+01+page+022.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3662657-arm+wrestle+1.jpg

2. Just to get sure you got all your senses... what is 200Septillion/Infinity?

I already proved you wrong multiple times. The only one believing that YOUR, and your only, "wishful thinking" is right are you. Everyone else goes with the writer statement, intent, that according to you is not as valid as your "theory".

I think you are a raging lost case tbh. It goes like this:

You: Goku should have won because reasons and Superman booh, the book not infinite.
Me: You are wrong, here is the reason.
You: I say you nay! Not infinite!
Me: Look at this scan.
You: I say you nay!*closes eyes. Not infinite! You no proof!
Me: Here is the proof.
You: I say you nay! I see nothing! Here is my Logic!
Me: Explains why "Logic" is flawed.
You: I say you nay! *closes ears and eyes*. Math!
Me: Your Math is weak, this is correct.
You: I say you nay! Writer is dumb!
Me: Writer > You.
You: I say you nay! Impossible!
Me: Comics are fiction, the impossible becomes possible.
You: I say you nay! *ragemode*

How can you even debate with someone who closes his eyes and ears to reason, scans, facts and the actual comic and disagrees just to repeat his own opinion which is plain and simple as wrong as a cactus in the anus of a pitbull...

To make it really simple for you:
How can something be infinite?
In comics it can.
But why?
Because the writer wants it.
But it's impossible isn't it?
It's a comic, fiction and in fiction everything is possible, even the impossible.

So deal with it. And do us all a favor and read Final Crisis, at least once, better yet 10 times, till you understand it before trolling us further with your nonsense.

And yes, I will report you from now on.

Never though that Final Crisis was that hard to understand, I feel like teaching a 1 year old to read shakespear...

You're clearly having a hard time getting this, so I'll make it extremely simple for you.

1. You literally just said, "There is no end to it. There are multiple ends, an infinite number of them to be exact.". Do you even know what you're saying anymore?

You're wrong on both accounts. There is AN end to it. Not "multiple ends". A book can only end once. You're not even making any sense.

2. You just said it has infinite pages, and that no one can read it. BUT ULTRAMAN DID. Which he could NOT do, if the book had infinite pages.

He stated he read "the end", of it. Even if he only read the part he wanted, IT WAS STILL THE END, MEANING THE BOOK IS FINITE, AS AN "END" IS A LIMIT, AND INFINITY IS LIMITLESS.

You really need to have the nearest first grader explain this to you.

3. No, if it was only one book for every different person that reads it, it would make PERFECT sense that only a computer could read it, as a computer isn't a person. So the book inside the book of infinity is different to everyone. Meaning it's only one book at a time, which means that you are lifting ONE BOOK. The only reason it's so heavy, is because it probably has some kind of limbo magic applied to it, to stop most people from reading it.

And again, you're ignoring the statement by Merryman that it was only one different book for every different person. Because you know I'm right.

4. IF ULTRAMAN READ THE LAST PAGE, THEN THERE IS A LAST PAGE. MEANING THAT IT HAS A FINITE NUMBER OF PAGES, LYING IN BETWEEN THE BEGINNING AND THE ENDING.

5. Clearly there are plenty of other people siding with me. The only ones on your side are the short bus crew, including Yungz, and TI. And they're probably just making themselves look stupid with you, to spite me.

Stiltman and cdtm have both voiced disagreement to your idiotic suggestion that Superman lifted infinite weight, when it is CLEARLY not so.

6. Yes, the author's intention matters. But NOT if he makes the feats of his characters too inaccurate. If Superman had lifted the book by himself, stating that only he could lift infinite weight, then the feat would be solid. But it's not. Superman needed help, meaning that he has FINITE strength, and meaning that the WEAKER Shazam's strength was also FINITE. And two FINITE'S can NOT equate to infinite.

Meaning that neither have infinite strength, even put together.

7. Shazam only has the strength of Hercules. The "stamina" of Atlas only gives him STAMINA. Meaning that he can use his full strength for as long as Atlas can use HIS full strength. Which simply means that Shazam can use Hercules' strength for as long as Atlas can use Atlas' strength. And the "power" of Zeus is just his lighting. In fact, in most versions, his list of powers includes simply, "the lightning bolts of Zeus". And is a lot of versions, Shazam can only use Zeus' lightning by saying "Shazam", and having the magic lightning strike someone that he's holding above him.

Either way, you're missing the point here. Neither Hercules, nor Zeus, have infinite strength. Meaning that Shazam does NOT have infinite strength. And the scan you just posted proves my argument EVEN FURTHER. Because it shows that Shazam, who has FINITE strength, is Superman's peer in strength.

8. Do you realize that you're still arguing that Superman can lift infinite weight, and Shazam can only lift 200 septillion tons? Even after you just posted a scan of them both being equal in terms of strength in an arm wrestle?

And btw, 200 septillion tons is over a thousand times heavier than the greatest lifting feat we've ever seen from Superman. So good job trying to highball the shit out of him, but you're really not smart enough to do that, as you just multiplied his one arm feat by A MILLION. lol

9. And LOLOLOLOL, THE ONLY "REASON" YOU'VE POSTED TO THE BOOK BEING INFINITE WAS THAT SUPERMAN SAID IT WAS! lol, feats > statements, so you're wrong, pal.

pile

10. The last point.

I am NOT in any way, shape, or form, suggesting that the book cannot be infinite, because infinity cannot exist in real life. I have PROVEN over and over again, that it is NOT infinite, because the feats in the comic, ON PANEL, CONTRADICT the very PREMISE of infinity. So even IF the author wanted it to be a feat of infinity for Superman, it DOESN'T MATTER, because he didn't execute it the right way. Any 10 year old, with a basic understanding of arithmetic could tell you the same.

This is just... sad, tbh.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
facepalm

1. My reply was not directed at you.
2. You don't understand infinity it seems.
3. My reply was humor, as someone with a bit of reason could have guessed, looking at the icons.
4. Maybe you should really stick to reading DB Mangas, they are simple enough to comprehend after all.

dur

1. Doesn't matter. It was one of the most idiotic statements I've ever seen posted on here, so I felt the compulsion to shut it down.

2. YOU don't understand infinity. There is NO END to ANY infinity. Meaning that you cannot judge how big it is, because there is nothing to measure. It just goes on forever. Meaning that there is no limit to it. So even with your first grade interpretation of infinity, you should be able to understand that there is nothing BIGGER than infinity, as it simply doesn't end. Ever. Meaning that one set of infinite numbers CANNOT have more numbers than another, because there is no limit to integers in mathematics. Simple as that.

3. So? All of your comments are pretty funny, as they have most likely been thought up by a pre-teen, who hasn't even taken pre-algebra yet. You have no understanding of mathematics whatsoever, and that doesn't make it okay to post untrue "facts". Ignorance doesn't make it okay. Since you don't know what you're talking about, just stop talking about it.

4. You're one to talk. You're the one taking statements at face value over feats, logic, and simple math. If I say that I'm going to lift a television that weighs 200 quintillion tons, and lift a regular tv, you would probably assume that the tv weighed 200 quintillion tons, even though all logic and reason pointed to otherwise. You are just... pitiful.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
You're clearly having a hard time getting this, so I'll make it extremely simple for you.

1. You literally just said, "There is no end to it. There are multiple ends, an infinite number of them to be exact.". Do you even know what you're saying anymore?

You're wrong on both accounts. There is AN end to it. Not "multiple ends". A book can only end once. You're not even making any sense.

2. You just said it has infinite pages, and that no one can read it. BUT ULTRAMAN DID. Which he could NOT do, if the book had infinite pages.

He stated he read "the end", of it. Even if he only read the part he wanted, IT WAS STILL THE END, MEANING THE BOOK IS FINITE, AS AN "END" IS A LIMIT, AND INFINITY IS LIMITLESS.

You really need to have the nearest first grader explain this to you.

3. No, if it was only one book for every different person that reads it, it would make PERFECT sense that only a computer could read it, as a computer isn't a person. So the book inside the book of infinity is different to everyone. Meaning it's only one book at a time, which means that you are lifting ONE BOOK. The only reason it's so heavy, is because it probably has some kind of limbo magic applied to it, to stop most people from reading it.

And again, you're ignoring the statement by Merryman that it was only one different book for every different person. Because you know I'm right.

4. IF ULTRAMAN READ THE LAST PAGE, THEN THERE IS A LAST PAGE. MEANING THAT IT HAS A FINITE NUMBER OF PAGES, LYING IN BETWEEN THE BEGINNING AND THE ENDING.

5. Clearly there are plenty of other people siding with me. The only ones on your side are the short bus crew, including Yungz, and TI. And they're probably just making themselves look stupid with you, to spite me.

Stiltman and cdtm have both voiced disagreement to your idiotic suggestion that Superman lifted infinite weight, when it is CLEARLY not so.

6. Yes, the author's intention matters. But NOT if he makes the feats of his characters too inaccurate. If Superman had lifted the book by himself, stating that only he could lift infinite weight, then the feat would be solid. But it's not. Superman needed help, meaning that he has FINITE strength, and meaning that the WEAKER Shazam's strength was also FINITE. And two FINITE'S can NOT equate to infinite.

Meaning that neither have infinite strength, even put together.

7. Shazam only has the strength of Hercules. The "stamina" of Atlas only gives him STAMINA. Meaning that he can use his full strength for as long as Atlas can use HIS full strength. Which simply means that Shazam can use Hercules' strength for as long as Atlas can use Atlas' strength. And the "power" of Zeus is just his lighting. In fact, in most versions, his list of powers includes simply, "the lightning bolts of Zeus". And is a lot of versions, Shazam can only use Zeus' lightning by saying "Shazam", and having the magic lightning strike someone that he's holding above him.

Either way, you're missing the point here. Neither Hercules, nor Zeus, have infinite strength. Meaning that Shazam does NOT have infinite strength. And the scan you just posted proves my argument EVEN FURTHER. Because it shows that Shazam, who has FINITE strength, is Superman's peer in strength.

8. Do you realize that you're still arguing that Superman can lift infinite weight, and Shazam can only lift 200 septillion tons? Even after you just posted a scan of them both being equal in terms of strength in an arm wrestle?

And btw, 200 septillion tons is over a thousand times heavier than the greatest lifting feat we've ever seen from Superman. So good job trying to highball the shit out of him, but you're really not smart enough to do that, as you just multiplied his one arm feat by A MILLION. lol

9. And LOLOLOLOL, THE ONLY "REASON" YOU'VE POSTED TO THE BOOK BEING INFINITE WAS THAT SUPERMAN SAID IT WAS! lol, feats > statements, so you're wrong, pal.

pile

10. The last point.

I am NOT in any way, shape, or form, suggesting that the book cannot be infinite, because infinity cannot exist in real life. I have PROVEN over and over again, that it is NOT infinite, because the feats in the comic, ON PANEL, CONTRADICT the very PREMISE of infinity. So even IF the author wanted it to be a feat of infinity for Superman, it DOESN'T MATTER, because he didn't execute it the right way. Any 10 year old, with a basic understanding of arithmetic could tell you the same.

This is just... sad, tbh.

1. Not an Book with "infinite Pages containing every Book possible".... you are doing this on purpose, being dense. Infinite Books = Infinite Endings. Proof, Ultraman read just one possibility out of a number of infinite possible endings, since "his" ending, the ending he read didn't become true. For this you need to read Final Crisis though.

2. Read Final Crisis, Ultraman didn't read to the end, he read what he believed is the FINAL CHAPTER of a book out of infinite books. Proof, only the Machine with infinite memory could read all pages at once and see that there are differen't endings. Ultraman saw just one ending, while indeed FC ended differently from what he belived. You should repeat the first grad, you failed.

3. You fail at english again and at basic understanding. Merryman said "From what I heard" he was guessing but still he made it infinite with the additional statement "It's got all the others in it". And since we know that it's a book with INFINITE PAGES occupying the SAME SPACE, with EVERY BOOK POSSIBLE, it means exactly this, the book has infinite Pages. The Perfect sense BS you just pulled out of your pants is just your wishful thinking tbh, no where was this stated and hence why it required Superman/Shazam and Ultraman to lift it. If it would be just one book it wouldn't be heavy at all. So you fail again.

4. He read what he believed what was the last page, the ending of Final Crisis and he was wrong, because Final Crisi ended differently from what he saw. Now I am 100% sure you never read FC.

5. People don't like it that Superman lifted infinity but they go rather with the writer statement than your wishful thinking. Everyone who read the comic and understood the beauty of it, agrees with me.

6. The feat was perfect. First Superman never stated he needed help, he asked Shazam to come with him, Superman is the good guy. I already explained this to you. The feat was perfect, like when Suprema lifted the Universe that was conained in a simple glass ball. Here you have a book, the writer gives as an perfect and accurated description how heavy it is by a) needing the strongest being in the Multiverse to lift it and b) by stating that it has an infinite number of pages occupying the same space. Perfect, flawless and beautiful, except if you have the reading comprehension of a 3 months old.

7. You just rambling around now. I showed you a perfect example of Shazam using Atlas to boost his strength... You don't read comics, you don't understand them. The only reason you are here is obvious. You are mad that SSJGSSJ got ROFLstomped by Superman in the latest DeathBattle.

8 facepalm Supermans one hand quantillion tons feat is not his greatest. Sans the legit infinite Book feat it is the benchpressing earth for 5 straight days without sunlight feat. Good job of showing you know nothing about Superman . You still doged the question, how much is 200/infinity? Amuse me. The number is irrelevant, if you feel better take 200 Millions.

9. Feats > your statements. I agree. Feat = Superman lifting a book with an infinite number of pages. Your statement = crycrygokulostcrycry

10. You have no basic understanding of arithmetic. " IF the author wanted it to be a feat of infinity for Superman, it DOESN'T MATTER" -> You opinion does? I loled.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
1. Doesn't matter. It was one of the most idiotic statements I've ever seen posted on here, so I felt the compulsion to shut it down.

2. YOU don't understand infinity. There is NO END to ANY infinity. Meaning that you cannot judge how big it is, because there is nothing to measure. It just goes on forever. Meaning that there is no limit to it. So even with your first grade interpretation of infinity, you should be able to understand that there is nothing BIGGER than infinity, as it simply doesn't end. Ever. Meaning that one set of infinite numbers CANNOT have more numbers than another, because there is no limit to integers in mathematics. Simple as that.

3. So? All of your comments are pretty funny, as they have most likely been thought up by a pre-teen, who hasn't even taken pre-algebra yet. You have no understanding of mathematics whatsoever, and that doesn't make it okay to post untrue "facts". Ignorance doesn't make it okay. Since you don't know what you're talking about, just stop talking about it.

4. You're one to talk. You're the one taking statements at face value over feats, logic, and simple math. If I say that I'm going to lift a television that weighs 200 quintillion tons, and lift a regular tv, you would probably assume that the tv weighed 200 quintillion tons, even though all logic and reason pointed to otherwise. You are just... pitiful.

1. First I showed something that is mathematically true, but you didn't understand it.

2.You still don't get it.

3. You are still not getting it and just acting dense.

4. You are living in a comic book where your TV weights 200 quintillion tons? Call the doctor and take your medicine, you need it.

So, obviously your eyes and ears are closed to reason, facts, on panel feats, statements and the writer intention, which makes you just a troll. The reason for this is you anger and your hurt feelings because Goku lost, AGAIN, and will never be able to win. Most people agree, expecially the ones from Deathbattle.

Has Superman infinite strength?
If he needs to have it for the Story, yes. Proof FC.
On a daily Basis?
No, else everything would be in danger.
But how can that be?
Mental Blockades.
But this is impossible.
Man that fly with their own power, people who shoot blasts from the eyes, everything is possible in ficition, even the impossible.

Deathbattle takes them at their best and thus why this is legit, though seeing the DB lifting feats, I would have made rather Goku vs Superboy, though Superboy would beat him too, easily.

I have wasted enough time showing you, the flaws of your "logic", proving you wrong with on panel feats and explaining everything to you in the simplest way possible, which you still didn't get because you simply don't want to understand it. You didn't even read FC for crying out loud.

Everyone can go through the scans I posted and judge for himself. It will end with this:

On panel fact from FC:
Morrison created one of the best stories ever, where the ultimate force of good, Superman, is faced with impossible tasks to defeat the ultimate evil. One of those tasks was to lift a book with an infinite number of pages occupying the same space, which is impossible since it's infinitly heavy, he succeeded because he needed to succeed.

Your stance:
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta


The writers intention doesn't matter.



And to explain everyone why you feel this way:

a) oyl97TG8jbA

b) L0D0VGomWb4

The second one is cool, 11:25 Superman walks through Gokus most powerful Kamehameha and ROFLstomps him with one hand.

Superman vs Goku. Winner Superman Fatality!

And before you keep on acting like a 3 month old baby that cries, I recommend you read FC, the complete story, else you will just see a small part and understand nothing. You are yet blind, deaf and act not very bright.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Goku lost, AGAIN, and will never be able to win.

Disagree with this.
We still didn't see nothing regarding the new potential of Goku and the Gods, also AT already confirmed that Goku will become much stronger than even his current SSGSS display during the course of the 100+ episodes of DBS, where we furthermore will probably see serious Beerus and Whis performances along with interuniversal fights.
There's a substantial chance that, at the end of DBS, current Superman will get his ass manhandled by Goku and the other top tiers, like it happened to him in the past at the hands of even weaker characters.

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
Disagree with this.
We still didn't see nothing regarding the new potential of Goku and the Gods, also AT already confirmed that Goku will become much stronger than even his current SSGSS display during the course of the 100+ episodes of DBS, where we furthermore will probably see serious Beerus and Whis performances along with interuniversal fights.
There's a substantial chance that, at the end of DBS, current Superman will get his ass manhandled by Goku and the other top tiers, like it happened to him in the past at the hands of even weaker characters.

Dragonball GT plays in the future, though non-canon to current DB, current DB should by all means be canon to GT. GT has the most ridiculous powerscaling and SSJ4 Goku already lost.