Quinlan Vos (Dark Disciple) vs. TCW Darth Maul

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carthage
Battle takes place on neutral ground

Who wins?

AncientPower
Darth Maul.

|King Joker|
If it's the Vos that defeated Dooku, he wins, in my opinion.

quanchi112
Originally posted by |King Joker|
If it's the Vos that defeated Dooku, he wins, in my opinion. Abc logic and Maul is greater than Dooku anyways.

Trocity
No, he isn't.

Fated Xtasy
Originally posted by quanchi112
Abc logic and Maul is greater than Dooku anyways.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnzghp5Z591qdzxj5.gif

ILS
Yeah, Maul.

Total Warrior
Vos wins, imo. I think he's stronger in sabers and, while maul could be better in the force, i think the tha gap between the two in sabers is wider than the gap between the two in the force, thus quinlan Vos should win a majority here

ILS
So you're suggesting that Vos can do the sabers-equivalent of ragdolling to Maul? lol

Total Warrior
Nope, i just think Vos is fast/durable enough to dodge/tank most of maul's force attacks and strong enough with a lightsaber to defeat the sith in a duel. If Vos could do it during his fight with dooku, i don't see why he can't do the same to a opponent who should be weaker than tyranus,imo.

ILS
How does he dodge being gripped?

Kind of a false equivalent given that we haven't seen Maul, enhanced by Force Rage, taking it to Dooku. But given that it was both that enhancement and Vos' unpredictability (one of the core traits involved in using Juyo), I'd be comfortable suggesting Maul could do the same. Which isn't to say either would take a majority over Dooku but it wouldn't be impossible for either to win, either.

AncientPower
Maul > Dooku in close combat.

ILS
In some ways. Dooku boasts his own advantages as well.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by ILS
Yeah, Maul.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by AncientPower
Maul > Dooku in close combat.


Possibly But Dooku's the superior fencer. Plus given his superior Tk, he should take Maul for a large majority.

Not sure about Maul vs Vos yet. Have to finish Dark Disciple first.

ILS
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Possibly But Dooku's the superior fencer. Plus given his superior Tk, he should take Maul for a large majority.The gap in their saber skill is about as noticeable as their gap in telekinesis, so nah, it'd still be as close a fight as sabers only.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by ILS
The gap in their saber skill is about as noticeable as their gap in telekinesis,


Which is pretty noticeable if we use Kenobi as the measuring stick. Unless you go by the whole Juyo > Djem So > Makashi > Soresu = Juyo/Djem So.

Emperordmb
Wait. People have Maul>DD Vos now?

NewGuy01
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Wait. People have Maul>DD Vos now?

Always have, here.

The people that didn't were mostly those who didn't read the novel, or were trolling.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Always have, here.

The people that didn't were mostly those who didn't read the novel, or were trolling.
Could you please enlighten me on how Vos beat Dooku if he's <Maul? (genuinely curious. not being a dissenter)

NewGuy01
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Could you please enlighten me on how Vos beat Dooku if he's <Maul?

Besides the fact that Maul could beat Dooku as well? Fights are variable, and different fighters handle different situations differently.

I fail to see any area where Vos actually eclipses Maul other than sheer unpredictability, though that's not to say that they aren't peers in other respects.

Total Warrior
How strong do you think DD Vos is, then?

NewGuy01
Originally posted by Total Warrior
How strong do you think DD Vos is, then?

Just a cut below Maul, lol. He can potentially take 3-4 wins out of 10, tbh.

Total Warrior
So a high-tier 8 fighter. Ok, i can agree with you

ILS
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Which is pretty noticeable if we use Kenobi as the measuring stick. Unless you go by the whole Juyo > Djem So > Makashi > Soresu = Juyo/Djem So. You'll notice that your ABC logic is poorly applied here.

Makashi; heavily precise dueling form designed solely for one on one combat, ideal for picking apart one's defence while conserving as much energy as possible, using the minimum amount of movement required.

Soresu; a purely defensive form designed to tire opponents out and wait for them to make mistakes, which has a root in blaster bolt deflection, opposed to dueling.

Makes sense that Dooku does well against Kenobi when he's already a little bit more skilled than him, his dueling form covers every potential weak area Soresu seeks to exploit, and from there Soresu simply isn't aggressive enough to (it lacks aggressive qualities altogether really) push a Makashi practitioner. Kenobi's Ataru? Dooku's remarked that he knows every facet of the form, every weakness, which is why he suspects he would have defeated Qui-Gon without much issue should they have ever fought.

Kenobi's style of combat is much better suited to facing Juyo than Makashi; it's not advantageous, but it's better than any other for fending off the erratic, speed and strength based assaults designed to flatten someone's defence ASAP.

And more on that point; Maul's brand of Juyo is better suited against Dooku's Makashi than Kenobi's Soresu, due to the maximum efforts placed on aggression, striking strength, speed, unpredictability and kinetic movement. It keeps Dooku on his toes far more, wears him out more quickly, and is a much more difficult assault to launch a counter-attack against.

Setting aside style advantages; Maul and Kenobi are both praised as being among the best duelists in all of recorded history with the feats to back it up, as you know. Windu and Dooku are better, but by a slim margin.

And more to the actual point I was making: no, Dooku's not taking a "large" majority on account of a power Maul can circumvent better than most of Dooku's competition.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Trocity
No, he isn't. Yes, he is.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by Trocity
No, he isn't.

Quan is an idiot who goes against his own rules. I'm currently beating him in a Dooku vs Maul debate in the movie vs forum. You're welcome to chime in if you ever want to.

Kosmos Supreme
Solution the Quan Chi problem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocsQFV687l4

quanchi112
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Quan is an idiot who goes against his own rules. I'm currently beating him in a Dooku vs Maul debate in the movie vs forum. You're welcome to chime in if you ever want to. You are being ridiculous.

Trocity
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, he is.

Based on?

Kosmos Supreme
Originally posted by Trocity
Based on?

http://img10.deviantart.net/772b/i/2012/316/d/3/absolutely_nothing___roronoa_zoro_by_icerider098-d5krhcv.png

Lord Stark
Even in the canon Maul is a tier below Dooku. The authors of SoD pretty blatantly state this. Vos wins.

If we are only using canon feats only, Dooku still wins. If we use Legends and Canon feats Dooku stomps even harder.

carthage
Yeah, Legends Dooku would beat him thoroughly imo

Kosmos Supreme
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Even in the canon Maul is a tier below Dooku. The authors of SoD pretty blatantly state this. Vos wins.
When?, not disbelieving you

Fated Xtasy
Originally posted by carthage
Yeah, Legends Dooku would beat him thoroughly imo

Isn't that kind of an oxy moron though?

Because essentially, Canon Dooku has the movies and the Disney stuff, and Legends dooku has TCW and the legends works.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Even in the canon Maul is a tier below Dooku. The authors of SoD pretty blatantly state this. Vos wins.

Actually, Jeremy Barlow said he thinks Maul would take Dooku 6-7/10 when asked on Twitter.

Basically in the quote you're referring to, Jeremy said that in terms of raw power/ability he's not quite as good as Dooku and Vader, but he stands as their peer through sheer force of will lol.

ILS
Jeremy Barlow also isn't exactly the most credible authority on any of the characters, and nowhere was it suggested that he's putting what we define as an entire tier between the three.

Trocity
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Jeremy Barlow said he thinks Maul would take Dooku 6-7/10

Jeremy Barlow is incorrect.

2-3/10 more like.

NewGuy01
Well for one thing, your opinion. Secondly, that was in response to Stark saying Jeremy confirmed Dooku would beat Maul. erm

Darth Thor
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Actually, Jeremy Barlow said he thinks Maul would take Dooku 6-7/10 when asked on Twitter.

Basically in the quote you're referring to, Jeremy said that in terms of raw power/ability he's not quite as good as Dooku and Vader, but he stands as their peer through sheer force of will lol.



Yep. The "Authors" Lord Stark referred to was just Barlow. And he did confirm on Twitter (to Marco) that he thinks Maul would take Dooku for a majority. Marco then harassed him into saying Maul could take Vader but Barlow wouldn't concede on that one Lol.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by ILS
You'll notice that your ABC logic is poorly applied here.


Huh? I hardly used ABC logic. ABC would be something like "Windu beat Sidous who stomped Maul, therefore Windu would Uber Trash Maul.."

Was just suggesting that IF we use the only foe they have both fought as a measuring stick, then Dooku LOOKS far superior.

The other opponent they have in common is Grievous, which again makes Dooku look superior (granted Dooku trained Grievous, and I've already stated previously that I don't see Grievous as the best measuring stick amongst Jedi/Sith due to his Non-Force nature.

Also suggested you might have a A>B>C>A type logic with the different Saber forms, which you do, and that's fine.



Originally posted by ILS


Setting aside style advantages; Maul and Kenobi are both praised as being among the best duelists in all of recorded history with the feats to back it up, as you know. Windu and Dooku are better, but by a slim margin.


I'm cool with that.


Originally posted by ILS
And more to the actual point I was making: no, Dooku's not taking a "large" majority on account of a power Maul can circumvent better than most of Dooku's competition.

I would still call it a large majority. Because Dooku's just a little better in almost every category. For instance the time Maul gets the edge over Dooku in Sabers, Dooku will likely use his superior Force Powers to gain the overall edge again, much like how his fight against Skywalker went in "Crisis on Naboo." Or against Opress when he was disarmed by him.


I'm not suggesting Maul won't give Dooku hell every time. He will. I just think the number of times Maul will actually win will an all out will be small in number.

Lord Stark
http://www.previewsworld.com/Home/1/1/71/950?articleID=145871

"His power isn’t on Vader’s level, true, or even on Count Dooku’s level — but that never stops him. He stands alongside the Sith Lords only by sheer force of will."

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Actually, Jeremy Barlow said he thinks Maul would take Dooku 6-7/10 when asked on Twitter.

Basically in the quote you're referring to, Jeremy said that in terms of raw power/ability he's not quite as good as Dooku and Vader, but he stands as their peer through sheer force of will lol.


Official Interview>Twitter. Not to mention Mace Windu (who's faced both Dooku and Maul in combat) states that he believes Dooku is the Sith Master.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by Lord Stark

Official Interview>Twitter.

I'm sorry if I don't buy that the medium has any effect on his opinion on the matter.

Beniboybling
It's not as if the authors have any official say on the matter anyway. no expression

NewGuy01
Originally posted by Beniboybling
It's not as if the authors have any official say on the matter anyway. no expression

It doesn't matter, considering the only thing I'm discussing at this point is the nature of the statement itself, not it's relevance to the battle.

Nephthys
Compare Maul vs Obi-Wan to Dooku vs Obi-Wan. Compare Maul vs Sidious to Dooku vs Yoda. Dooku has the advantage.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by NewGuy01
It doesn't matter, considering the only thing I'm discussing at this point is the nature of the statement itself, not it's relevance to the battle. Well if we are discussing the credibility of these people's opinions, the answer they have none.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Well if we are discussing the credibility of these people's opinions, the answer they have none.

Except we're not.

Beniboybling
Then I'm at a loss as to the point of this discussion. http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/3024136639.gif

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Lord Stark
http://www.previewsworld.com/Home/1/1/71/950?articleID=145871

"His power isn’t on Vader’s level, true, or even on Count Dooku’s level — but that never stops him. He stands alongside the Sith Lords only by sheer force of will." Official Interview>Twitter.


Read the underlined part. He's putting him on par with them despite claiming he's less powerful due to Maul's "sheer force of will". Then later he gives his opinion that Maul would actually take Dooku for a majority, because "he never gives up" (which is perfectly in line with his "sheer force of will" statement). The fact that the second part is on twitter doesn't have a bearing on his opinion.




Originally posted by Lord Stark
Not to mention Mace Windu (who's faced both Dooku and Maul in combat) states that he believes Dooku is the Sith Master.


That's a good point tbf. But given most of us are claiming Dooku is above Maul overall, there's no real contradiction there to the general opinion here. The only disagreement is you're claiming Dooku's an entire tier above Maul.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Compare Maul vs Obi-Wan to Dooku vs Obi-Wan. Compare Maul vs Sidious to Dooku vs Yoda. Dooku has the advantage.


Damn I keep forgetting about the Yoda/Dooku fight.

I agree Dooku has the clear advantage.

Lord Stark
Originally posted by Nephthys
Compare Maul vs Obi-Wan to Dooku vs Obi-Wan. Compare Maul vs Sidious to Dooku vs Yoda. Dooku has the advantage.

thumb up

Trocity
So Newguy, you have Maul>Dooku?

NewGuy01
Originally posted by Trocity
So Newguy, you have Maul>Dooku?

No, lol.

ILS
Oh KMC.. you silly.

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