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This crowd is a bunch of idiots..

O'Malley said "All lives matter." And then he is guilty of generalizing

And these fools go crazy, Bernie try's to clean it up, and no one listens. This is the problem with with people acting like immature babies and being emotional.

Then whats worse is he has to apologize for saying "All lives matter."

I support O'Malley but this is a step back for him.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/18/politics/martin-omalley-all-lives-matter/

The problem with "all lives matter" is that it ignores the point of "black lives matter" and suggests there's equality between the races when there isn't. No one needs to say "white lives matter" because the law and media clearly agree, whereas it isn't always clear in the law and media that black lives really matter.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/07/20/netflix-actor-attacks-people-for-saying-all-lives-matter/

Matt McGory made a good explanation of why #AllLivesMatter pisses black people and civil rights crusaders off. I think this is the clearest elucidation:

If their lives matter so much, stop shooting eachother

"All Lives Matter" is a tactic to deflect from the real problem, and many people somewhat obliviously buy into it at face value.

Saying "All Lives Matter" in response to "Black Lives Matter" is like saying "Feed everyone" in response to people saying "Feed the starving". It's inappropriate in the context of the conversation.

Originally posted by Bardock42
"All Lives Matter" is a tactic to deflect from the real problem, and many people somewhat obliviously buy into it at face value.

Saying "All Lives Matter" in response to "Black Lives Matter" is like saying "Feed everyone" in response to people saying "Feed the starving". It's inappropriate in the context of the conversation.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
The problem with "all lives matter" is that it ignores the point of "black lives matter" and suggests there's equality between the races when there isn't. No one needs to say "white lives matter" because the law and media clearly agree, whereas it isn't always clear in the law and media that black lives really matter.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/07/20/netflix-actor-attacks-people-for-saying-all-lives-matter/

Matt McGory made a good explanation of why #AllLivesMatter pisses black people and civil rights crusaders off. I think this is the clearest elucidation:

I've read about this on reddit but I'm still not fully on board with it. Basically, I see the #BlackLivesMatter as being the offensive one. Then again, I find very few things as offensive but I'm trying to comprehend why people's jimmies are rustled over this.

It would seem like the more politically correct thing to say would be "All Lives Matter."

If the slogan was, "BlackLivesMatterToo", then I would agree with the sentiments of that statement. But it is just "BlackLivesMatter." That's not politically correct. Native American lives matter, too. Hispanic as well (other minorities in the US that face similiar poverty and hardship issues that the black community does).


Why is it bad/taboo for a person to be offended by "BlackLivesMatter" and then for that person to say, "Come on! All lives matter, not just black lives. Don't be racist."?



I'm just not getting this whole argument.


Is this another white guilt thing?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
The problem with "all lives matter" is that it ignores the point of "black lives matter" and suggests there's equality between the races when there isn't. No one needs to say "white lives matter" because the law and media clearly agree, whereas it isn't always clear in the law and media that black lives really matter.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/07/20/netflix-actor-attacks-people-for-saying-all-lives-matter/

Matt McGory made a good explanation of why #AllLivesMatter pisses black people and civil rights crusaders off. I think this is the clearest elucidation:

To be fair it's not always clear in *black communities* that black lives matter. But why would you assume he is saying it from a place of suggesting equality exists? What if it comes from a place of going.."well, we can't have true equality until we stop separating which specific races lives matter"?

Originally posted by Bardock42
"All Lives Matter" is a tactic to deflect from the real problem, and many people somewhat obliviously buy into it at face value.

I don't see it as deflecting in the slightest. I see it calling out the issue with focusing just on one minority as opposed to another with similar issues. But this is such a petty argument. I can't believe people are losing their shit over "BlackLivesMatter".

Originally posted by Bardock42
Saying "All Lives Matter" in response to "Black Lives Matter" is like saying "Feed everyone" in response to people saying "Feed the starving". It's inappropriate in the context of the conversation.

Nah, man, I'm not feeling that comparison. It is not the same as this issue.

It's more like people trending the phrase, "Feed the Veterans" and then people getting offended* that children are excluded so they say, "No, how about the slogan becomes 'Feed the Hungry' so children and single mothers are included, too?"


*Ha...people getting offended over such stupid bullshit. Ugh.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't see it as deflecting in the slightest. I see it calling out the issue with focusing just on one minority as opposed to another with similar issues. But this is such a petty argument. I can't believe people are losing their shit over "BlackLivesMatter".



Nah, man, I'm not feeling that comparison. It is not the same as this issue.

It's more like people trending the phrase, "Feed the Veterans" and then people getting offended* that children are excluded so they say, "No, how about the slogan becomes 'Feed the Hungry' so children and single mothers are included, too?"


*Ha...people getting offended over such stupid bullshit. Ugh.

You can think what you want, but it won't change reality. The hashtag Black Lives Matter was specifically designed to counter the callous nature with which black people are often treated by the police force, in stark contrast with how white people are treated. People that latch on to the "All Lives Matter" idea basically just drown out this accurate criticism with a toothless, useless catchphrase that has no potential to change anything, which is why it is so well regarded by people who prefer the status quo (i.e. unarmed black men being shot to death regularly by the people allegedly in charge of protecting them).

I just think there could of been multiple explanations as to what he means when he says "all lives matter" and is it fair for us to decide that "no, it can only mean one thing"?

Originally posted by Surtur
I just think there could of been multiple explanations as to what he means when he says "all lives matter" and is it fair for us to decide that "no, it can only mean one thing"?
Sure, and he had the chance to explain and apologize, but his statement was still inappropriate (as he apparently has realized himself).

For me people should of waited for an explanation before expecting an apology.

If he had come out with "I didn't mean to suggest equality exists, but that all lives matter and that no one race is more important, and I am sticking to that belief" do you think people would of been understanding? Since I could see people still having a problem, even with that.

Originally posted by Surtur
For me people should of waited for an explanation before expecting an apology.

If he had come out with "I didn't mean to suggest equality exists, but that all lives matter and that no one race is more important, and I am sticking to that belief" do you think people would of been understanding? Since I could see people still having a problem, even with that.

Yes, because it still deflects. It's not a sufficient explanation when talking about the racial injustice in America.

Originally posted by Bardock42
"All Lives Matter" is a tactic to deflect from the real problem, and many people somewhat obliviously buy into it at face value.

Saying "All Lives Matter" in response to "Black Lives Matter" is like saying "Feed everyone" in response to people saying "Feed the starving". It's inappropriate in the context of the conversation.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yes, because it still deflects. It's not a sufficient explanation when talking about the racial injustice in America.

Why does it deflect? Why can't a person say all lives matter and then proceed to address the issues which face specific communities?

Originally posted by Surtur
Why does it deflect? Why can't a person say all lives matter and then proceed to address the issues which face specific communities?
Because "All Lives Matter" is an empty phrase that everyone even racist murderers, would agree with at face value, but it hides the real issue that in American society an underlying racial bias, especially in the police force, makes it so that black lives do not matter as much as white lives.

When people say "Black Lives Matter" it addresses that inequality head on, it basically states "Black lives do matter, even though there are people that consciously or subconsciously value black lives less than white lives".

Originally posted by Bardock42
You can think what you want, but it won't change reality.

This is not necessary. Clearly, if what I thought was unique, this wouldn't even be a discussion. Reality exists with...what? Probably tens of thousands or even millions of people who think the "Black Lives Matter" is an offensive slogan.

Originally posted by Bardock42
The hashtag Black Lives Matter was specifically designed to counter the callous nature with which black people are often treated by the police force, in stark contrast with how white people are treated. People that latch on to the "All Lives Matter" idea basically just drown out this accurate criticism with a toothless, useless catchphrase that has no potential to change anything, which is why it is so well regarded by people who prefer the status quo (i.e. unarmed black men being shot to death regularly by the people allegedly in charge of protecting them).

So why not make the slogan something far less "offensive"*?

Why not "BlackLivesMatterToo"? That makes sooooo much more sense and, to me, it has the added oomph of an emotional appeal to their plight? Just a "BlackLivesMatter" has the odd and unintended outcome of being polarizing.


*To prevent the strawman, I'm going to keep drawing attention to the fact that this doesn't offend me in the slightest. I'm referring to the people who are whining about being offended about "BlackLivesMatter."



Originally posted by Bardock42
Because "All Lives Matter" is an empty phrase that everyone even racist murderers, would agree with at face value,

Maaaaaaaaaan...

I definitely do not agree with this. A racist murderer (I'm assuming you mean a person that murders a particular race because they hate that race) probably does not think all lives matter...probably that some lives matter more than others.


Originally posted by Bardock42
When people say "Black Lives Matter" it addresses that inequality head on, it basically states "Black lives do matter, even though there are people that consciously or subconsciously value black lives less than white lives".

Don't you think "BlackLivesMatterToo" better speaks to that message, though?

#BlackLivesMatterAsWellThankDadudemonForHelpingUsO
utWeCouldn'tDoItWithoutYouThisReallyMakesThePointO
hShit140CharacterLimitNoo

Originally posted by Bardock42
#BlackLivesMatterAsWellThankDadudemonForHelpingUsO
utWeCouldn'tDoItWithoutYouThisReallyMakesThePointO
hShit140CharacterLimitNoo

I can only assume your childish response is an indirect concession because you don't really have a rebuttal to my points.

It would be great if you actually tried to engage like an adult, though. Because I would like my ideas to be challenged and I would like to improve my understanding on this issue.


Based on your tantrum in the other thread, I think you're in that "mode" thing you do. When you've cooled down and want to actually discuss this topic, feel free to come back. I'll still be level-headed and willing to discuss the issue without insults.

I don't view you as an honest actor so I don't spend much time in my replies to you.

Your suggestion for the other hashtag, which is actually not that different, is just further deflection from the actual issue, just like the "All Lives Matter" people. It's policing the tone instead of discussing the issue.

Bardock, your wrong, deal with it.

Saying "Black Lives Matter" then "All lives Matter"

He was guilty of nothing.

Your as pathetic as that crowd.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Bardock, your wrong, deal with it.

Saying "Black Lives Matter" then "All lives Matter"

He was guilty of nothing.

Your as pathetic as that crowd.

Well, he felt he had to apologise.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, he felt he had to apologise.

Cause the crowd went ballistic. And he should not have apologized, but that does not make him wrong..

Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't see it as deflecting in the slightest. I see it calling out the issue with focusing just on one minority as opposed to another with similar issues. But this is such a petty argument. I can't believe people are losing their shit over "BlackLivesMatter".



Nah, man, I'm not feeling that comparison. It is not the same as this issue.

It's more like people trending the phrase, "Feed the Veterans" and then people getting offended* that children are excluded so they say, "No, how about the slogan becomes 'Feed the Hungry' so children and single mothers are included, too?"


*Ha...people getting offended over such stupid bullshit. Ugh.

Emotions run the country now, not clear and precise thinking.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Cause the crowd went ballistic. And he should not have apologized, but that does not make him wrong..

So you are saying he lied when he apologized? That's kinda harsh, I don't think he's a liar.

Originally posted by Bardock42
"All Lives Matter" is a tactic to deflect from the real problem, and many people somewhat obliviously buy into it at face value.

Saying "All Lives Matter" in response to "Black Lives Matter" is like saying "Feed everyone" in response to people saying "Feed the starving". It's inappropriate in the context of the conversation.

Lord have mercy, since when did you become the authority on racial discourse here?

Originally posted by Bardock42
So you are saying he lied when he apologized? That's kinda harsh, I don't think he's a liar.

Strawman, try again, didn't say that, Mr. King.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Strawman, try again, didn't say that, Mr. King.

You are saying he apologized not because he believed he was wrong, but to appease the crowd. That's lying.

Originally posted by Bardock42
You are saying he apologized not because he believed he was wrong, but to appease the crowd. That's lying.

I said what I think he should have done, was not apologize, Mr. King.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I don't view you as an honest actor so I don't spend much time in my replies to you.

I'm devastated.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Your suggestion for the other hashtag, which is actually not that different, is just further deflection from the actual issue, just like the "All Lives Matter" people. It's policing the tone instead of discussing the issue.

And I view my suggestion as having more emotional appeal to the cause while also avoiding the polarizing effects of the original.

So now what?

Originally posted by Bardock42
You are saying he apologized not because he believed he was wrong, but to appease the crowd. That's lying.

That's not lying at all. And TI was correct to call what you did a strawman.

Apologizing does not equal being wrong.

Unless he said, "I apologize, I was wrong" and then either directly or indirectly implied that he didn't think he was wrong, he's not a liar.


"I apologize for the offense I caused" is not the same thing as "I was wrong for the offense I caused."


Shit, this is like...etiquette 101 type stuff. facepalm

Originally posted by dadudemon


Shit, this is like...etiquette 101 type stuff. facepalm

what you expect.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'm devastated.



And I view my suggestion as having more emotional appeal to the cause while also avoiding the polarizing effects of the original.

So now what?

Well, I guess what happens now is that the movement will continue with #BlackLivesMatter, and you and I will disagree on whether that's the right approach.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, I guess what happens now is that the movement will continue with #BlackLivesMatter, and you and I will disagree on whether that's the right approach.

Then you would be wrong.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Then you would be wrong.



As he usually always is.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, I guess what happens now is that the movement will continue with #BlackLivesMatter, and you and I will disagree on whether that's the right approach.

So do you agree that may slogan is better than the original? Do you think it would have prevented this entire argument from becoming this big?

Originally posted by dadudemon
So do you agree that may slogan is better than the original? Do you think it would have prevented this entire argument from becoming this big?

I think your slogan is less effective. I think it would have prevented this entire O'Malley issue because it probably would have never taken off in the first place.

Even Bernie had enough of their cry baby antics.

Good on him.

Originally posted by dadudemon
So do you agree that may slogan is better than the original? Do you think it would have prevented this entire argument from becoming this big? IT could be better but it seems the only problem is that some people took the original to mean that black lives matter more. That's not the problem of #BlackLivesMatter movement. I think they've been pretty clear they just want equality.

So it almost seems like AllLivesMatter slogan comes off as in direct opposition to the very accurate assessment of racism that BlackLivesMatter is trying to bring light to..

I do not think the BlackLivesMatter slogan really needed any more clarification. I think the AllLivesMatter slogan would have been appropriate if their slogan was #BlackLivesMatterMore

As it stands it feels like AllLivesMatter is just trying to deflect from the real problem BlackLivesMatter is trying to bring out. Even if that was not the AllLivesMatter person's intention. So the focus should be on the problem of racism and social inequality. Not whether some people mistook what the slogan meant. It's not productive at this point.

This country has more problems with race now, then it did 8 years ago.

I wonder why, no wait it's still Bush's fault.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
This country has more problems with race now, then it did 8 years ago.

I wonder why, no wait it's still Bush's fault.

A lot of latent or invisible racism has lately been brought to the attention of the public conscious. It doesn't mean that the country has more issue with race, just that it deals with it in the open now, and hopefully improvements are made.

Originally posted by Bardock42
A lot of latent or invisible racism has lately been brought to the attention of the public conscious. It doesn't mean that the country has more issue with race, just that it deals with it in the open now, and hopefully improvements are made.

Its worse now, and your can't deny/cover it up with shifty key strokes.

Originally posted by Newjak
IT could be better but it seems the only problem is that some people took the original to mean that black lives matter more. That's not the problem of #BlackLivesMatter movement. I think they've been pretty clear they just want equality.

So it almost seems like AllLivesMatter slogan comes off as in direct opposition to the very accurate assessment of racism that BlackLivesMatter is trying to bring light to..

I do not think the BlackLivesMatter slogan really needed any more clarification. I think the AllLivesMatter slogan would have been appropriate if their slogan was #BlackLivesMatterMore

As it stands it feels like AllLivesMatter is just trying to deflect from the real problem BlackLivesMatter is trying to bring out. Even if that was not the AllLivesMatter person's intention. So the focus should be on the problem of racism and social inequality. Not whether some people mistook what the slogan meant. It's not productive at this point.

Ahh, finally, a well-thought-out commentary on my concerns.

Okay, so what I see with my slogan suggestion is this:

If those same people tried to pull this shit with "Black Lives Matter, Too", then there is no way at all that they could avoid the racist label. It would quite clearly make them racist AND idiotic to try and paint this as a "Black Lives Matter, More" slogan. This is why I like my "Black Lives Matter, Too." I really think it avoids this whole fiasco.



BUUUUUUUUUUUUT, I think I am willing to concede my line of reasoning because the blacklivesmatter slogan probably is related to the old feminist slogan of Woman's Voices Matter. <---Don't quote me on that but there was a similar slogan during the women's suffrage movement in the US. I may be mistaken and it wasn't a re-purposing of that slogan but it seems too similar to be a coincidence.

Who came up with the slogan? I think intent and inspiration are important when understanding PR and Marketing things like this (I know, it's sad that my business mind views this shit as PR and Marketing but that's what this is and there's nothing wrong with marketing a rights movement to make it more appealing and "viral" in people's minds).

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
This country has more problems with race now, then it did 8 years ago.

I wonder why, no wait it's still Bush's fault.


LOL. Yeah, they love to blame everything on republicans. Basically, anyone besides the person who is actually responsible and is clearly trying to start a race war with his race baiting tactics.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I've read about this on reddit but I'm still not fully on board with it. Basically, I see the #BlackLivesMatter as being the offensive one. Then again, I find very few things as offensive but I'm trying to comprehend why people's jimmies are rustled over this.

It would seem like the more politically correct thing to say would be "All Lives Matter."

If the slogan was, "BlackLivesMatterToo", then I would agree with the sentiments of that statement. But it is just "BlackLivesMatter." That's not politically correct. Native American lives matter, too. Hispanic as well (other minorities in the US that face similiar poverty and hardship issues that the black community does).


Why is it bad/taboo for a person to be offended by "BlackLivesMatter" and then for that person to say, "Come on! All lives matter, not just black lives. Don't be racist."?



I'm just not getting this whole argument.


Is this another white guilt thing?
I understand where you're coming from, but I think you're not quite grasping the reason for the hashtag. The hashtag isn't putting one race over another, however opponents might want to construe it as such. The hashtag isn't a "white guilt" thing, considering it was started by black people on social media.

Let me break it down simply: Black Americans feel* that the media and the law doesn't value their lives as highly as it does the lives of other ethnicities, particularly white people. They believe their secondary status is so deeply ingrained in American culture that this hashtag needed to be created to make a statement and shed light on the disparity. Lots of well-meaning (or less well-meaning) but uncomprehending people who don't quite understand this or refuse to understand will use some variation of #AllLivesMatter, not realizing that they're changing the subject, watering down the message, and relegating black people's struggle in favor of some meaningless feelgood aphorism.

There's no need to say that white lives matter in our society. Hence why O'Malley made a mistake to say that in response to chants of "Black Lives Matter."

If you're interested in research, I'd recommend talking to a few black people.

*Notice, I don't go as far as to claim in this post that they're right, though I do agree with their view.

Well see I will just stick with "the saying can be interpreted different ways" instead of saying it absolutely can or can't be taken a certain way.

The women who heckled O'Malley and Sanders at Netroots Nation are no different than the woman who heckled Obama at the White House LGBT Pride Reception.

It does not take any political courage whatsoever to be confrontational with someone at friendly venue who is on your side of the issue.

I would love to see them pull this stunt on Bush or Walker at the Family Leadership Summit.

That would be speaking truth to power, not alienating the only people who would be inclined to champion their issue.

They can **** right off.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
The women who heckled O'Malley and Sanders at Netroots Nation are no different than the woman who heckled Obama at the White House LGBT Pride Reception.

It does not take any political courage whatsoever to be confrontational with someone at friendly venue who is on your side of the issue.

I would love to see them pull this stunt on Bush or Walker at the Family Leadership Summit.

That would be speaking truth to power, not alienating the only people who would be inclined to champion their issue.

They can **** right off.

I don't agree with heckling either, in any context. If an audience doesn't like what it's hearing, it can leave.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
The women who heckled O'Malley and Sanders at Netroots Nation are no different than the woman who heckled Obama at the White House LGBT Pride Reception.

It does not take any political courage whatsoever to be confrontational with someone at friendly venue who is on your side of the issue.

I would love to see them pull this stunt on Bush or Walker at the Family Leadership Summit.

That would be speaking truth to power, not alienating the only people who would be inclined to champion their issue.

They can **** right off.

This

This is why I have no respect for these people.

They'd rather heckle their white friends, who already agree with them, than take the issues to the people who are making their lives worse.

This, like modern feminism, is a cause championed entirely by well off upper middle class shits and their white guilt/cuckold friends.

Originally posted by krisblaze
This

This is why I have no respect for these people.

They'd rather heckle their white friends, who already agree with them, than take the issues to the people who are making their lives worse.

This, like modern feminism, is a cause championed entirely by well off upper middle class shits and their white guilt/cuckold friends.

Yeah, those 5 hecklers represent all the people that were inspired by and champion the "Black Lives Matter" slogan.

I find heckling problematic as well, but it's not as simple as "all heckling is bad", some voices are not heard or given any airtime, in public discourse and I can understand why some people feel the need that they need to create the attention for their cause themselves using such methods.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, those 5 hecklers represent all the people that were inspired by and champion the "Black Lives Matter" slogan.

I find heckling problematic as well, but it's not as simple as "all heckling is bad", some voices are not heard or given any airtime, in public discourse and I can understand why some people feel the need that they need to create the attention for their cause themselves using such methods.

I don't like heckling because people who heckle right wingers tend to get beat down by security, where as those who heckle people like Sanders get an apology

Originally posted by krisblaze
This, like modern feminism, is a cause championed entirely by well off upper middle class shits and their white guilt/cuckold friends.

Ha! I lol'd....

Originally posted by krisblaze
I don't like heckling because people who heckle right wingers tend to get beat down by security, where as those who heckle people like Sanders get an apology

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, those 5 hecklers represent all the people that were inspired by and champion the "Black Lives Matter" slogan.

The woman leading the hecklers was Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrisse Cullors on behalf of Black Lives Matter. So yes, these hecklers do represent Black Lives Matter.

In an interview with This Week in Blackness, she went on to say that O'Malley and Sanders "were not humble enough" during their own town hall appearances and that "If you want our vote, you are going to have to do way more work. . . . No more skirting around the issues. We will shut down every single debate."




Originally posted by Bardock42
I find heckling problematic as well, but it's not as simple as "all heckling is bad", some voices are not heard or given any airtime, in public discourse and I can understand why some people feel the need that they need to create the attention for their cause themselves using such methods.

What good does it do your cause to draw attention to yourself if people do not like what they see?

I'd say we need to stop letting extremists on both sides of the aisle control the conversation and stir up shit, but that would imply there was ever a point in American political history where this wasn't happening.

I recently had a brodown on Facebook with some friends of my cousin over the perceived racism of a major poetry magazine's choices in poetry. By not automatically accepting that the magazine was racist I became an enemy. That's as annoying as when Right Wingers call me a communist.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
The woman leading the hecklers was Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrisse Cullors on behalf of Black Lives Matter. So yes, these hecklers do represent Black Lives Matter.

I don't think that contradicts what I said.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
In an interview with This Week in Blackness, she went on to say that O'Malley and Sanders "were not humble enough" during their own town hall appearances and that "If you want our vote, you are going to have to do way more work. . . . No more skirting around the issues. We will shut down every single debate."


What good does it do your cause to draw attention to yourself if people do not like what they see?

It starts the thinking, and adds your voice to the conversation. Sure it would be nice to be liked by everyone whose minds you are trying to change but that's just not gonna work out.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I'd say we need to stop letting extremists on both sides of the aisle control the conversation and stir up shit, but that would imply there was ever a point in American political history where this wasn't happening.

I recently had a brodown on Facebook with some friends of my cousin over the perceived racism of a major poetry magazine's choices in poetry. By not automatically accepting that the magazine was racist I became an enemy. That's as annoying as when Right Wingers call me a communist.

Do you really think the main issue in current political discourse is that extremists have too much influence?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Do you really think the main issue in current political discourse is that extremists have too much influence?
Not influence but prominence. They're prominent because they're loud, and by being loud and acrimonious they make it more difficult than it already is to have sensible conversations.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
This country has more problems with race now, then it did 8 years ago.

I wonder why, no wait it's still Bush's fault.

How did you measure this?

The tone of America.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I don't think that contradicts what I said.

I take people at their word, so if the co-founder of Black Lives Matter says she is speaking on its behalf, then she is articulating its official position, regardless of what anyone inspired by it thinks.




Originally posted by Bardock42
It starts the thinking, and adds your voice to the conversation. Sure it would be nice to be liked by everyone whose minds you are trying to change but that's just not gonna work out.

Often times in life, you have to choose between trying to be right and doing what works. This tactic is fine if your aim is to express your feelings or to feel superior to someone, but not if you actually want to further your goals. You are not going to change a mind that has been closed by your bad behavior.

The country has more race 'problems' now than it did 8 years ago in the sense that when you turn over a rock, you have more bug problems.


We always had tons of race problems, we just didn't like talking about them for awhile, but events have dragged them into the light so we can actually address them again.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
I take people at their word, so if the co-founder of Black Lives Matter says she is speaking on its behalf, then she is articulating its official position, regardless of what anyone inspired by it thinks.


Okay, but I was talking (in the post you replied to) about the people not the organisation, because most people who are inspired or talk about #BlackLivesMatter don't know that there is an organisation...


Originally posted by Adam_PoE

Often times in life, you have to choose between trying to be right and doing what works. This tactic is fine if your aim is to express your feelings or to feel superior to someone, but not if you actually want to further your goals. You are not going to change a mind that has been closed by your bad behavior.

I disagree, I believe this is a tactic that a) can work and b) is particularly effective when the nice approach doesn't get you heard.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Okay, but I was talking (in the post you replied to) about the people not the organisation, because most people who are inspired or talk about #BlackLivesMatter don't know that there is an organisation...




What a cop out reply, of coarse they do. Lets face it, you got schooled.

I think you dropped something, here you go:

http://i.imgur.com/9aHcIRb.jpg

Looks like something you would make at your construction job when the boss finds you wasting time on KMC.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Looks like something you would make at your construction job when the boss finds you wasting time on KMC.

lol