Illegal Immigrants Storm the beaches of Miami

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Time-Immemorial
http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/news/migrants-jump-off-boat-run-ashore-during-miami-beach-fashion-shoot-video-7133271

Surtur
Once again the same excuses "they are just coming for a better life'.

Can I start selling heroin and if I'm caught just say..I was looking for a better life for myself? After all, times are hard, legit jobs aren't easy to come by..but something tells me that would not fly.

Time-Immemorial
You bring up a good point, why isn't selling hard drugs the same as illegal immigration tactic "they want a better life."

Time-Immemorial
Q8jt8pPhRF0

Surtur
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
You bring up a good point, why isn't selling hard drugs the same as illegal immigration tactic "they want a better life."

Since then we get into a case of deciding which illegal things are okay for you to do in order to better your life and which illegal things are not okay.

Actually you know what screw the drug dealing example, because the excuse for that will be "it hurts the community". What about if a guy steals a car because he really needs a job and he finally got one, but he has no way to get there other then a car. So he steals a car from someone since even the buses in his area will not take him close enough to his new job, so he needs a car.

He has stolen this car to better his life, not to sell for scrap or go on a joyride. Should he not be charged with anything?

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Surtur
Since then we get into a case of deciding which illegal things are okay for you to do in order to better your life and which illegal things are not okay.

Actually you know what screw the drug dealing example, because the excuse for that will be "it hurts the community". What about if a guy steals a car because he really needs a job and he finally got one, but he has no way to get there other then a car. So he steals a car from someone since even the buses in his area will not take him close enough to his new job, so he needs a car.

He has stolen this car to better his life, not to sell for scrap or go on a joyride. Should he not be charged with anything?

Perfect example, which shows believers in illegal immigration believe in lawlessness.

Bashar Teg
they're all probably stealing your fruit/vegetable picking and packing job, or some other shit job that nobody wants. oh and statistically a fraction of one of them will commit some sort of major crime.

our economy has a widespread dependency for cheap labor and cant afford to fully employ legal citizens. the upside to this that typically nobody wants the jobs they're doing. the big downside is that if you get your way and all the illegal aliens are kicked out tomorrow, we'd have an economic catastrophe and food shortage for a start.

one of the only smart things dubya tried to push was a federal program to allow businesses to legally employ temporary citizens. obviously it went nowhere from there.

Time-Immemorial
You make sense, but sometimes common sense is against the law.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Perfect example, which shows believers in illegal immigration believe in lawlessness.
I don't think anyone believes in illegal immigration.

Time-Immemorial
Um what? Every bleeding heart liberal does.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Um what? Every bleeding heart liberal does.
Define "believes in illegal immigration."

I've laid this down before, but I guess I have to do it again. Those you probably see as "believing in illegal immigration" don't think that illegal immigrants aren't breaking a law, and if given the choice they'd oppose mass illegal immigration. Here's the divergence from their opponents: these "believers" are actually more like skeptics. They're skeptical that it's actually possible for America to keep these people out in a way that's humane and financially feasible. If they believe in anything, it's that America's immigration system is outdated and in serious need of reform so that the large portions of well-meaning immigrants for whom legal immigration isn't a realistic option can be separated from criminals rather than being put in the same boat, no pun intended.

Another thing they believe in is that just illegally immigrating on its own (that is, if no other crimes are committed before, during, or after the immigration) isn't a big enough crime to warrant real punishment. They see it as sort of like international jaywalking.

Time-Immemorial
Build a real wall, pass legislation that allows easier immigration for the right people. Anyone with criminal records cannot immigrate. Deport the criminals.

This is not hard stuff to do.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Build a real wall, pass legislation that allows easier immigration for the right people. Anyone with criminal records cannot immigrate. Deport the criminals.

This is not hard stuff to do.
I agree fully with 2 and 4, I don't agree with 1, and I partly agree with 3.

With regards to 1, I don't think a barrier would really matter unless it's the Wall of the Night's Watch or something. People will always find ways through it and it will just be a waste of money (and a pretty rude gesture to our southern neighbor).

With 3, I think it should depend on what the criminal record is. This would be a provision easily abused to keep out people on minor grounds. If it were anyone with a felony conviction and up I'd support it.

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Omega Vision
I agree fully with 2 and 4, I don't agree with 1, and I partly agree with 3.

With regards to 1, I don't think a barrier would really matter unless it's the Wall of the Night's Watch or something. People will always find ways through it and it will just be a waste of money (and a pretty rude gesture to our southern neighbor).

With 3, I think it should depend on what the criminal record is. This would be a provision easily abused to keep out people on minor grounds. If it were anyone with a felony conviction and up I'd support it.

No, if you build 2-3 70ft walls, with surveillance, no one is getting over. This would also employ thousands of people.

Did you know that Mexico is rude to us on a daily basis? They extort America's who travel to Mexico.

When American go down there, they have no rights..but as soon as illegals come here, they do.

A criminal record is like the guy that had 7 felonies that killed Kate.

ArtificialGlory
If you build a wall, won't the illegals simply start using boats?

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
No, if you build 2-3 70ft walls, with surveillance, no one is getting over. This would also employ thousands of people.

Did you know that Mexico is rude to us on a daily basis? They extort America's who travel to Mexico.

When American go down there, they have no rights..but as soon as illegals come here, they do.

A criminal record is like the guy that had 7 felonies that killed Kate.
Okay, so basically the Night's Watch wall. Again, that would be incredibly expensive, and the the temporary jobs created by its construction wouldn't really be of long term value. I don't think such a wall would be worth the trouble, even if we could build it.

Need some kind of documentation for the claims about Americans. I've heard stories about Americans who experience Mexican corruption firsthand, but that's not really the same thing as us building a 70ft high barrier between us and them. In fact those two things are incomparable. And even if Mexico was rude to us, why should we sink to their level? Aren't we supposed to be a city on the hill and all that?

Omega Vision
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-on-the-us-mexico-border-building-a-wall-is-easy/2015/07/16/9a619668-2b0c-11e5-bd33-395c05608059_story.html





Look at South Korea and Israel. Both are examples of how expensive and extensive defensive measures can be circumvented rather cheaply by digging tunnels.

Edit: Wow...Trump actually thinks he could get Mexico to pay for the wall. What kind of fantasy world does he live in?

Surtur
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
they're all probably stealing your fruit/vegetable picking and packing job, or some other shit job that nobody wants. oh and statistically a fraction of one of them will commit some sort of major crime.

our economy has a widespread dependency for cheap labor and cant afford to fully employ legal citizens. the upside to this that typically nobody wants the jobs they're doing. the big downside is that if you get your way and all the illegal aliens are kicked out tomorrow, we'd have an economic catastrophe and food shortage for a start.

one of the only smart things dubya tried to push was a federal program to allow businesses to legally employ temporary citizens. obviously it went nowhere from there.

The people do not want the jobs because they have shit pay because illegals will work for scraps basically. Not literal scraps, but they will work for shit pay. I think this needs to be pointed out, because every time someone says "they will do the jobs we won't do" it seems to imply everyone who is here legally is just so utterly lazy that none of them are willing to do jobs like that.

One business had some illegals, saw they would take far less pay, and said "awesome!". Then another saw it, and said "awesome!" and then another saw it, and said "awesome" and then another and then another. Now they can make a better life for themselves by taking away jobs from people here legally who would of had NO PROBLEM doing these physical labor jobs if they were paid the wages a legal citizen of this country should be paid. I know people who do shit ass work, some of them shoveling LITERAL SHIT. But they don't get paid a mere 2-4 bucks an hour like some illegals will gladly accept.

Your post just tells me two things really: not only do we need to get stricter on immigration when it comes to preventing more from coming in and dealing with the ones already here. The second thing is we need to begin to take steps to make sure we are not dependent on illegal labor.

Surtur
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Edit: Wow...Trump actually thinks he could get Mexico to pay for the wall. What kind of fantasy world does he live in?

I know it is a delusional thought, but it did get me to thinking..where the f*ck is Mexico in all this? What are they doing to stop people from leaving illegally? Wouldn't they want people to stay in their stinkhole of a country? Even the shittiest countries don't actually want people to leave.

Likewise, is Mexico taking ANY MEASURES to make the country better...so it's not a place where most people want to flee? The way people make it sound is..you pretty much will have a shitty life in Mexico unless you are a cartel member or drug lord. Is Mexico just..totally cool with this?

Just curious as to what they are doing to stop this.

One Big Mob
Landmines

Or they should build a big forest in between it and fill it with thousands of bears and aggressive deer

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Okay, so basically the Night's Watch wall. Again, that would be incredibly expensive, and the the temporary jobs created by its construction wouldn't really be of long term value. I don't think such a wall would be worth the trouble, even if we could build it.

Need some kind of documentation for the claims about Americans. I've heard stories about Americans who experience Mexican corruption firsthand, but that's not really the same thing as us building a 70ft high barrier between us and them. In fact those two things are incomparable. And even if Mexico was rude to us, why should we sink to their level? Aren't we supposed to be a city on the hill and all that?

America is the shining city on the hill. Why you think everyone wants to come here.

Time-Immemorial
Except not everyone can fit on the tiny hill of America. In the last 50 years the rest of earth population went up 5 billion, and America only went up 30,000,000.

Germany is just as guilty of not letting in anyone! Crept they think we should let in everyone. It's hypocritical. Except they are surrounded by stable economies and are landlocked by them. Mexico failed and people leaving instead of staying and fixing their problems, they run here and bog our system out with debt!

Flyattractor
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Landmines

Or they should build a big forest in between it and fill it with thousands of bears and aggressive deer

Or we could just let you off your leash and let you run around down there.


That would scare me away.

One Big Mob
Originally posted by Flyattractor
Or we could just let you off your leash and let you run around down there.


That would scare me away. To get paid to legally shoot illegal immigrants for another country?

Uh... yeah?

Flyattractor
Originally posted by One Big Mob
To get paid to legally shoot illegal immigrants for another country?

Uh... yeah?

Somehow when you say "Shoot" I don't picture you using an actual GUN.

One Big Mob
Like those Border Patrol porn vids?

Flyattractor
Not PORN exactly......more ...well this board won't let me say exactly.

Time-Immemorial
We need to stop letting everyone in. And start kicking people out. Liberals first, then illegals.

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