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* RotS Vader as of operation Knightfall
* RotJ Vader (both Legends and Canon feats apply)
* Vitiate as seen in Revan novel.

Setting: Mustafar

No amp/prep time.

Who wins?

TP decides this.

Vaders.

The Vaders win. An amped Vitiate in the novel could've potentially lost to an amped Scourge, weakened Revan, and weakened Surik. On neutral ground, he's no match for a superior team. His TP might give him a couple of wins.

That was Scourge's vision. He saw thousands of those visions. Doesn't mean we have to take them all seriously. After he truly faced the Emperor, his verdict was that they didn't stand a chance. And more importantly, Revan's team had an advantage of knowing about Vitiate and his TP attacks so they were ready for it. Vaders won't have that advantage.

Revan solos the vaders

Vitiate easily TP's RotS Anakin and Vader may fall soon after in the same way. If not, he gets annihilated.

Vitiate is garbage and gets raped, Revan follows shortly.

Why are people acting like Revan is in this mmm

Am I missing something?

I think you're missing the very obvious "and" that is not in between "Revan Vitiate". Thankfully others are not as constrained by reality as you.

Originally posted by Sinious
That was Scourge's vision. He saw thousands of those visions. Doesn't mean we have to take them all seriously. After he truly faced the Emperor, his verdict was that they didn't stand a chance. And more importantly, Revan's team had an advantage of knowing about Vitiate and his TP attacks so they were ready for it. Vaders won't have that advantage.

I know, but he notes that any of them could've been real. This is a stronger team too, so I'd say the odds are stacked with them, particularly since this is on neutral ground.

Even if Vitiate TP's one of them, it's quite possible the other will reach and kill him in time. I did admit his TP could give him some wins anyway.

That team was prepared against his TP. This one is not.

No dark side nexus and stronger Force adepts? Team wins.

@Neph - Vitiate's TP on the nexus, perhaps. On neutral ground, he isn't dominating this team mentally for the win - or at least not every time.

Who gives a shit about a nexus. Anakin's mind is pathetic and will easily fall and Vader has nothing on Vitiate. Sidious put him on his knee's from across the galaxy, Vitiate would devour him. They lack the defense Revan developed.

The nexus matters because it was a maximum concentration feat even on the nexus.

Anakin's mind is prone to manipulation from people like Palpatine whom he placed his trust in. That doesn't make his mind pathetic by any means, considering his raw strength (and at times, willpower) is rather remarkable.

And again, even if Vitiate dominated one, the other could reach and kill him. As per the novel, it required Vitiate's complete focus on dominating an individual's mind, even on the nexus.

lol @ trying to reason with Neph in regards to Anakin

lol @ trying to argue with Neph in regards to nexus feats

Originally posted by SunRazer
The nexus matters because it was a maximum concentration feat even on the nexus.

Anakin's mind is prone to manipulation from people like Palpatine whom he placed his trust in. That doesn't make his mind pathetic by any means, considering his raw strength (and at times, willpower) is rather remarkable.

And again, even if Vitiate dominated one, the other could reach and kill him. As per the novel, it required Vitiate's complete focus on dominating an individual's mind, even on the nexus.

Irrelevant.

Anakin's a moron and borderline insane. Particularly in his Vader incarnation. His strength and willpower doesn't surpass that of Revan and Malak, who fell to Vitiate nigh-instantly. He has no telepathic resistance feats I know of. And his mental showings include he, Obi-Wan and Windu struggling to compel Cad Bane to do something. Unlike Revan who trained under a telepathic master and was exceedingly well versed in the subject.

Wrong, because neither of them would be capable of attacking him while he's mentally assaulting them. Neither remotely approaches Revan's mental resistance and lack his prepared telepathic shield. Like Scourge, they'd experience the power of the Emperor's mind in contact with theirs. And like when Sidious admonished Vader, they wouldn't take it particularly well. Alternatively, he can just break it off and toss the charging Vader across the room.

Even barring TP, Vitiate can one-shot Anakin at his leisure and crush Vader in a straight fight.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Who gives a shit about a nexus. Anakin's mind is pathetic and will easily fall and Vader has nothing on Vitiate. Sidious put him on his knee's from across the galaxy, Vitiate would devour him. They lack the defense Revan developed.

Nah. Anakin's will and power were such that he cowed the Son and Daughter. There's no evidence to suggest he'd fall to Vitiate's mindhaxx. Especially when Vitiate has no nexus or prep.

The Vaders stomp.

That feat doesn't infinitesimally depict Anakin's true abilities, lol. Anakin was nothing to the One's without the power of Mortis. Even as Vader Sidious butt****ed him from across the galaxy.

Anakin doesn't have any actually telepathic feats or resistance feats. He falls easier than Revan did.

Sure it does. Else The Father would have been satisfied with any schmuck who could utilize a nexus. (The same nexus that The Son and Daughter were on and could access tbh.)

But instead, The Father is all about some Anakin. He says only the Chosen One could tame his children.

There's prolly a reason why Sheev opted for psychological manipulation rather than psychic compulsion.

Revan singlehandedly embarrassed Vitiate on a dark side nexus when Vitiate had prep. The Vaders wreck.

No other schmuck has the Chosen One power's lurking inside him, which Anakin cannot freely use.

I'm not sure what you're even suggesting, that Anakin actually has 2x One's powers and willpower, whenever he wants? Sure, that's why the Son couldn't easily force visions of the future on him and corrupt him 2 episodes later. That's why Anakin really easily beat Ahsoka in the next episode and didn't struggle at all. That's why Anakin and Obi-Wan totally beat the crap out of Dooku on whatever planet or why he stomped Barriss and ragdolled Obi-Wan. All because can actually use power greater than 2 One's off of Mortis at will. Wow, my eyes are opened.

You mean other than how he easily psychically backhanded Vader from across the galaxy?

Vitiate embarrassed Revan with Malak as backup. The second fight Revan had prep and had created a defense and still got one-shot when Vitiate got serious. And neither of these two has Revan's defensive capabilities in any area.

Didn't Lana Beniko resist his TP?

Lol

You know Neph made some decent arguments and I haven't seen a single person coming close to debunking them. I'm more convinced that Vitiate wins after reading through the thread. Originally posted by SunRazer
I know, but he notes that any of them could've been real. This is a stronger team too, so I'd say the odds are stacked with them, particularly since this is on neutral ground. Yeah but he might've seen stuff that involves Vitiate one-shotting them all. That isnt really an indication of power for Vitiate. I think the point in those vision scenes were the explanation of force visions and how a Sith Lord struggles when he sees them for the first time, also that the future contains countless possibilities. Using that to underrate Vitiate is not really an argument I can respect tbh.


I find it unlikely but fair enough.

Yes, the future holds countless possibilities

The visions are proof of that

Know why it's called possibility?

Because its something that could have happened

If conditions didn't exist for it to be possible, even if only the minority of the time, Scourge wouldn't have seen any visions of victory at all

That said, not seeing a pair of Vaders winning here in a bout of raw force power

You all focus on nexus shit too much on a guy that grew in power after more thoroughly consuming the Force energy of a Planet than any other drain feat in the lore, regardless of time it took.

Nathema is to Vitiate what The Warring Triad was to Kefka in FFVI

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Yes, the future holds countless possibilities

The visions are proof of that

Know why it's called possibility?

Because its something that could have happened

If conditions didn't exist for it to be possible, even if only the minority of the time, Scourge wouldn't have seen any visions of victory at all


Anything is possible though.

Originally posted by Sinious
Anything is possible though.

Hah

No

I can rattle off scenario after scenario that won't happen without parity between stats, optimal conditions, etc

Without these, Revan ever being victorious, even in minority, can't happen

It's like throwing Piccolo Daimao at Freeza and ever expecting him to win.

Revan!Vitiate's TP Feat listings please?

Other than dominating an already Dark Side Revan to the Dark Side while on a Dark Side Nexus with prep, that is.

Prove to me he can somehow instantly dominate someone while NOT being wrecked by two of the most offensive and brilliant duelists in history.

I'm sure as **** not talking Telepathy

Though, once more that nexus crutch is kind of funny when you can gauge his sitting power off what he ate on Nathema

I get that it's a product of being focused on Star Wars, thus both discussion and evaluation of shit is insulated, but still kind of jarring how some connect the dots is easily passed over :hmm