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Setting: Naboo plains

Who wins?

Palpatine.

But... de drainz?

Sheev wins. There's no evidence that N's drain would work without prep and his vaunted TK was insufficient to KO Canderous for Chrissakes. Sheev is more powerful and more skilled.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Sheev wins. There's no evidence that N's drain would work without prep and his vaunted TK was insufficient to KO Canderous for Chrissakes. Sheev is more powerful and more skilled.
I agree with that reasoning. I'd also add that Force users on the same tier as RotS Sidious (Yoda, Vitiate, Plagueis etc.) can take Nihilus too.

I doubt Nihilus could even react to Sidious, to be honest. And Palpatine is more powerful and more skilled regardless. He wins.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Sheev wins. There's no evidence that N's drain would work without prep and his vaunted TK was insufficient to KO Canderous for Chrissakes. Sheev is more powerful and more skilled.

There's no evidence or anything remotely indicative of prep with Nihilus' drain. As ever, it is a complete fabrication on your part.

Just like there's no real evidence that he can use it in combat.

Him using it in combat is how he was destroyed.

Neph likes to argue that Nihilus's power isn't the standard orange beam we see in KOTOR, but rather a cloud of black smoke. Which wasn't at all involved with his death on the Ravager.

No I don't. It's both. Different depictions of the same ability, seen in different media's. Nihilus consumed Katarr with his power and later tried to use the same power on the Exile to consume her, but was repelled. Avellone just changed the depiction for the comic, probably couldn't make it look how he'd wanted in the game or something.

Kreia uses the same technique on the Jedi Master's. It's easy to use. Hell, we know the talk about prep is bollocks because Meetra uses the ability throughout the whole game subconsciously and the Sith Assassin's use it in a similar manner.

There's no evidence to suggest that one could successfully utilize the drain on a planetary level or to defeat a powerful Force adept like Sheev without significant prep or the aid of a nexus.

"Amazingly dark and devastating powers are the purview of some of the greatest Sith Lords of the Knights of the Old Republic era. They devastate and consume entire worlds with a thought... Average beings stand no chance of stopping these ultra-powerful monsters of the dark side." ―Power Beyond Belief: Using Ultra-Powerful Sith Lords in Saga Edition

... so much for preparation.

In the same way Malak devastated Telos with a thought.

The Sith on M4-78 devastated the planet with a thought.

Doesn't mean they used force powers.

Key words are "dark and devastating powers," "consume," "ability," and "Drain Force."

...Which does explain why N devoured Telos and the Exile's companions aboard the Ravager instead of losing a duel and dying. mmm

Not really. Nihilus' forces were ambushed by the Republic. It's highly possible his attentions were temporarily divided to managing his forces. No one wants to start draining while they are in such a vulnerable position, tbh.

You said all it requires is a thought, which is certainly far quicker than a lightsaber duel and a naval battle. 👍

Unless... There's another way to read it, perhaps?

I was making the assumption the quote is referring to the time it takes for his dark side energies to begin assaulting the planet. He would still be left vulnerable as it runs across the landscape tbh.

How would he be any more vulnerable for the duration of the drain? If there's no prep work involved and its that effortless?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Key words are "dark and devastating powers," "consume," "ability," and "Drain Force."

Nowhere is drain force mentioned

Ah yes, the Dark and Devastating powers that are afforded to numerous Sith Lords in this quote. Obviously Traya, Sion, Malak, Bandon and Revan can all consume worlds. That's the only possible explanation of that quote that makes sense! I can't believe I didn't see this until now!

@Tempest: I never said it was effortless.

Originally posted by Selenial
Nowhere is drain force mentioned

Ah yes, the Dark and Devastating powers that are afforded to numerous Sith Lords in this quote. Obviously Traya, Sion, Malak, Bandon and Revan can all consume worlds. That's the only possible explanation of that quote that makes sense! I can't believe I didn't see this until now!

It's mentioned further down in the article.

The point of that quote is showing that it's by virtue of dark side energies.
That doesn't mean that all beings have the same power though, lmfao.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It's mentioned further down in the article.

The point of that quote is showing that it's by virtue of dark side energies.
That doesn't mean that all beings have the same power though, lmfao.

As you've pointed out, it says consume. Obviously they can all drain planets!

Unless of course you're saying you use different interpretations of a quote for different Sith Lords, that's Neph level double standards.

Originally posted by Selenial
As you've pointed out, it says consume. Obviously they can all drain planets!

Unless of course you're saying you use different interpretations of a quote for different Sith Lords, that's Neph level double standards.

Nah, just you're being retarded. The passage reads "Amazingly dark and devastating powers are the purview of some of the greatest Sith Lords of the Knights of the Old Republic era. They cheat death repeatedly. They devastate and consume entire worlds with a thought. They bend and twist the Force to their needs and desires as the dark side warps them into tools of its own. Average beings stand no chance of stopping these ultra-powerful monsters of the dark side. Only the greatest heroes may ultimately defeat them." It's clearly shown that different beings are capable of different powers - but they are all immensely powerful nevertheless. Suggesting they are all on the same playing field because they are rewarded with the same accolade is just... stupid.

The article goes down and elaborates on each of the powers specifically. Here is what they say concerning Darth Nihilus:

"Here are a few examples using these techniques, as applied in the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide. Spoiler warning: If you have not completed the video game Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords, you might wish to skip these examples, since they contain some spoilers.

Darth Nihilus is literally a destroyer of worlds, powered by an insatiable hunger that drives him to consume greater and greater populations. While one may reasonably expect someone fallen to the dark side to employ Force lightning against a foe, no one expects a fleet of starships commanded by Sith Lords consuming entire planets. Nor would Nihilus tolerate such a rival and competitor for his sustenance. Given the Sith Lord's unique background, it is not the type of ability that would be taught to an apprentice.

From a game mechanics point of view, there is little need to spend time developing rules and restrictions for such a unique power. It is a story device. From the GM's perspective, Darth Nihilus consumes a world when the plot requires it. However, lesser aspects of his terrible hunger might be used directly against the heroes. These abilities are better emulated by the use of Force talents, powers, secrets, and techniques. In this case, the GM should describe the use of such a talent, like Drain Force, in a manner that suggests that it is powered by his unnatural hunger."

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You said all it requires is a thought, which is certainly far quicker than a lightsaber duel and a naval battle. 👍

Unless... There's another way to read it, perhaps?
He didn't even loose the duel. He committed suicide in the most embarrassing of fashions because he's an idiot. Especially considering he knew who and what the Exile was before he sent Visas.

Selenial, head to SWTOR Forums. The war has begun.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
...Which does explain why N devoured Telos and the Exile's companions aboard the Ravager instead of losing a duel and dying. mmm

He may have been out of range from Telos. He was also preoccupied with trying to figure out where all the Jedi he'd been told about were.

Good points.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He may have been out of range from Telos. He was also preoccupied with trying to figure out where all the Jedi he'd been told about were.

Yet he has star system range per KOTOR CG

That said?

Rationalizing his lack of using his Drain on Telos is like trying to rationalize why Kenobi just stood there while some Mandalorian woman committed suicide he could have prevented with casual TK

PIS and shitty writing

Meaningless RPG mechanics.

No, we know that he was looking for the Jedi. You get the chance to taunt him about it. The lack of range is just a plausible explanation. He also sent his sith out beforehand so he probably needed something rather than just noming it as soon as he appeared,

Ok exactly how close does he need to be?...What this isn't close enough?

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-29-2015/9uZijs.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-29-2015/hNx7KC.gif

What if Sidious just blitzes Nihilus?

Space is actually deceptively big.

Originally posted by Stigma
What if Sidious just blitzes Nihilus?

What, before Nihilus can even think? Implausible.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Meaningless RPG mechanics.

The stated range isn't part of the D20 mechanics

The destiny point nonsense is, the actual range isn't.

Which is the only important info in the fluff, the stated range



It really isn't when you have a fair number of intergalactic range showings for Drain in general in the franchise (Sidious and Byss, Vitiate and Revan, etc).

All you've got here is PIS per usual.

The writers forget to have them use their powers for the convenience of the plot constantly.

Originally posted by Nephthys
What, before Nihilus can even think? Implausible.
Actually, yes. I've heard Nihilus is one of those slow ones, if you catch my drift.

Originally posted by Stigma
Actually, yes. I've heard Nihilus is one of those slow ones, if you catch my drift.

Depending on the standards of the vs community you're part of?

Kind of easy to get a feel for his speed in the cutscenes when the space battle outside his window looks like it's going in slow motion for ships maybe a couple stories in size long that can accelerate at 1000s of times G.

Same with Revan vs Malak on the Star Forge, especially notable where the Holographic Model of the Forge shows the ships darting around its length in a matter of a couple seconds. The forge is something of a Death Star sized space station.

All depends on how a given vs forum gauges the speed of the verse

low end vs high end interpretations range from super/hypersonic to relativistic/lightspeed

Isn't our hobby just the stupidest cluster**** in that regard? :lmao