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Full rest and healing between rounds n' shit

Warm-up: Rish Loo
1. Asajj Ventress
2. Savage Opress
3. Grievous
4. Darth Maul
5. Darth Tyranus
Boss: Darth Vader

Falls at the boss.

At least makes it to Vader.

Maul

Movie feats only or TCW/canon in general? Or Legends feats also?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Maul

Ok you clearly can't rate him too highly.

Stops at 5

Originally posted by appletonia
Ok you clearly can't rate him too highly.

Or you don't rate Maul too highly.

Darth Revan's got nothing to put Maul down with and he's a worse duelist so he loses.

Last time I checked he has never proven himself to be much more than a somewhat powerful Force User with no offensive Force threat whatsoever/a lightsaber specialist that hasn't really established himself to be all that great with a lightsaber either. Obi-Wan level perhaps, but not Dooku level, and certainly not Yoda level.

What are his best Force/lightsaber feats, and what would you say are his low showings?

>Wants to find out about Revan or Darth Maul's power.
>Decides to ask Nephthys.

I'm not really the best person to ask about Maul's feats, true.

They are better than Darth Revan's in all regards though. He doesn't need to be Dooku or Yoda level when Revan's far below both.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66

Originally posted by appletonia

What are his best Force/lightsaber feats

Best saber feats include.

Defeating Anoon Bondara who's lightsaber mastery was considered second to none.(source is either the Power of the Jedi source book or one the essential guides)

Beating Darsha Assant whom was a decently skilled duelist.

And he held off, Jinn and Obi-Wan, although several sources state that they would have beaten him were it not for Maul separating them.

Then he killed one of the best lightsaber duelists of the Jedi order, Qui-Gon Jinn.

TCW.

"humbled" Savage Opress.

Dueled Obi-Wan Kenobi and Asajj Ventress along side Savage Opress.

Dueled Obi-Wan Kenobi and Adi Gallia along side Savage opress.

Bested and killed Pre Viszla.(meh)

Dueled Darth Sidious alongside Savage.

captured Count Dooku.

Dueled(?) General Grievous

took on Mace Windu and Aayla Secura for an unspecified amount of time.

That's about it for dueling feats. I'm sure ILS' RT will provide more information.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66


Remember that time you argued Revan was a master of all lightsaber forms because he did a kick? Ah, good times.

No, I argued the way the kick was displayed was an indication of Niman... which is true.

He is a master of all (or at least many) forms probably, though.

Remember the time you said Bane could defeat Yoda? Ah, legendary times.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Remember the time you said Bane could defeat Yoda? Ah, legendary times.

Current times?

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Best saber feats include.

Defeating Anoon Bondara who's lightsaber mastery was considered second to none.(source is either the Power of the Jedi source book or one the essential guides)

Beating Darsha Assant whom was a decently skilled duelist.

And he held off, Jinn and Obi-Wan, although several sources state that they would have beaten him were it not for Maul separating them.

Then he killed one of the best lightsaber duelists of the Jedi order, Qui-Gon Jinn.

TCW.

"humbled" Savage Opress.

Dueled Obi-Wan Kenobi and Asajj Ventress along side Savage Opress.

Dueled Obi-Wan Kenobi and Adi Gallia along side Savage opress.

Bested and killed Pre Viszla.(meh)

Dueled Darth Sidious alongside Savage.

captured Count Dooku.

Dueled(?) General Grievous

took on Mace Windu and Aayla Secura for an unspecified amount of time.

That's about it for dueling feats. I'm sure ILS' RT will provide more information.

Grievous is not the same entity he once was. Defeating him is no longer impressive at all.

Anoon Bondara was an extremely skilled swordsman but there really isnt anything to suggest he was remotely powerful in the Force, and that's usually what makes the difference.

Qui-Gon Jinn was an Obi-Wan type. Very skilled swordsman, powerful, but he's simply not powerful enough to put him among the elite. Same with Obi-Wan.

How well did he do against Sidious?

What are the circumstances behind his capturing of Dooku?

You say that he took on Mace Windu (and Aayla) for an unspecified amount of time; did he get to demonstrate anything at all that can enable a proper comparison between him and Mace?

For the record, I'm not saying he isn't skilled. I simply think there's a world of difference between say, Yoda and Count Dooku, and likewise a world of difference between say, Count Dooku and Obi-Wan, and I personally have Maul at around Obi-Wan level as it stands (though maybe I'm underestimating him).

Revan's a largely unknown quantity last time I checked, but the evidence generally suggests that he was an incredibly powerful Force User on a par with the likes of Exar Kun and Bane, and if there is anybody in Maul's era that's on that level it's the Yodas and the Palpatines, not the Qui-Gons and Obi-Wans.

Originally posted by appletonia
I simply think there's a world of difference between say, Yoda and Count Dooku, and likewise a world of difference between say, Count Dooku and Obi-Wan, and I personally have Maul at around Obi-Wan level as it stands (though maybe I'm underestimating him).

There isn't a world of difference in saber skill, though. Dooku trashes Obi-Wan via efficient use of TK and force powers - as a duelist, he's still obviously better, but there is less of a gap than you think.

That's debatable but that's still just Dooku.

Darth Revan > DE Sidious

This gauntlet is utterly destroyed by Darth Revan.

Originally posted by Kurk
Stops at 5

This

Originally posted by appletonia
Grievous is not the same entity he once was. Defeating him is no longer impressive at all.

Perhaps, but considering that TCW is also a part of legends canon, we've got no choice but to take everything into consideration.



Power in the Force rarely matters. Roan Shryne was a man with little talent in the Force yet he did well against 19BBY(four months after rots) Vader



Perhaps, but Jinn's stated to have "perfect" mastery of the Force and is thought to be powerful by Darth Sidious.

And as for Obi-Wan, by 42BBY(i believe it's that year) A.K.A at the age of 13 he had already become a master of lightsaber combat(Fact file stated this) not to mentioned that by the time of the last Jedi Apprentice novel(in which Obi-Wan is nineteen), Qui-Gon, i believe, stated that Obi-Wan had grown more powerful than he.



Arguably good. depends on how you view it.



I've no idea.



Hard to tell, we mostly see them clash then some filler is happens and then Maul's warriors interrupt the battle.



Understood, I myself have no idea where Maul ranks, so no stress with that.



Eh, maybe.

TCW is canon canon, not Legends Canon, Fated.

Isn't it both?

Originally posted by Selenial
TCW is canon canon, not Legends Canon, Fated.

It's part of both canon, is it not? Seeing as it's got several novels and comic spin offs(Clone Wars: Wild Space for example) I always thought that was the case, to be honest.

But, that's a different discussion altogether, Sel. I don't wanna derail the new guy's thread.

Originally posted by appletonia

Revan's a largely unknown quantity last time I checked, but the evidence generally suggests that he was an incredibly powerful Force User on a par with the likes of Exar Kun and Bane, and if there is anybody in Maul's era that's on that level it's the Yodas and the Palpatines, not the Qui-Gons and Obi-Wans.

Yep

>Most powerful champion of the Jedi Order at the end of the Mandalorian Wars
>Considered by Vrook to have the Force flow through him like no student the Order's seen. ****er was a master during the great hunt and possibly Great Sith War and would have been on Exis Station to gauge people like Thon/Sunrider/etc
>Surik considered his Mandalorian War self to have a greater command of the Force than any she'd ever met
>Traya's hyperbolic heart of the Force shit which exists to nod to his ass being an extremely powerful Force user.

Then you just watch the cognitive dissonance waft off posters as they sputter "b-but feats"

You then laugh as you point to other featless, yet powerful, characters from other franchises (Yamcha's a golden example) and wonder why powerscaling is such a foreign idea.

Originally posted by appletonia

Revan's a largely unknown quantity last time I checked, but the evidence generally suggests that he was an incredibly powerful Force User on a par with the likes of Exar Kun and Bane, and if there is anybody in Maul's era that's on that level it's the Yodas and the Palpatines, not the Qui-Gons and Obi-Wans.
Bane does not belong among these guys LOL. He's weaker than them.

But more or less agreed on the Revan part.

Don't remember giving any of you people permission to comment on Maul lol.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Or you don't rate Maul too highly.

^And neither does this guy, so you must be really phucked.



Shut up, meg.

Truthfully, I am fairly certain ALL of DARTH Revan's (or for that matter possibly ALL of his incarnations) lightsaber-based victories are against opponents who we know little to nothing about skill-wise, aside from what an individual can infer about his opponenets personally which STILL leaves a large disparity in people's opinions to be had. Now if say a statement was released putting Revan just around Dooku level? Then he would be a MUCH more well-rounded character. From what we see of him in his later incarnations he is a a VERY prolific Force-User as far as offensive abilities. Largely TK but it could be logically inferred he at LEAST possessed a basic level skill in Force Lightning. (I would say it is LIKELY, given the tier of force-users he inhabits, to be above that. I also do not own many novels or EU material beyond what I can find on the internet, which given that I have to KNOW about it to look it up, makes it problematic)

Anyways, people hearken back to him defeating Mandalore the Ultimate in single combat. With the way the statement was made and pictures of it HIGHLY suggesting it was solely on his skill with a saber. An excellent feat. HOwever, what do we know of Mandalore's skill in melee combat? We can assume he is a leg above regular Mandolorians simply by being their feared leader, sure.

Essentially I personally feel all Revan needs to be MUCH more viable of a debatable character, are a couple saber-based feats alone that are explicitly stated to be such.

That being said I would still give Revan > Maul but this incarnation ONLY because of his more powerful, and active, use of offensive force abilities. (Not saying that Revan is MORE active in his use of force abilities per say, but that he is at least just as active with his as Maul is, with more powerful abilities.)

However, I do concur he would indeed stop at Vader.

Originally posted by Vixas
Truthfully, I am fairly certain ALL of DARTH Revan's (or for that matter possibly ALL of his incarnations) lightsaber-based victories are against opponents who we know little to nothing about skill-wise, aside from what an individual can infer about his opponenets personally which STILL leaves a large disparity in people's opinions to be had.
That's a pretty awful thinking process then - and honestly outright wrong.



- being the greatest Mandalorian of a culture of warriors that rivals and fights the Jedi.
- defeating Malak, the second most powerful Jedi in the galaxy, in a single attack.
- being regarded centuries later throughout Mandalorian culture as the greatest Mandalore.

You should check out http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/revan-respect-thread/95278/. Scroll down to the "Combat Abilities" section and read the feats that start out with "(Darth Revan...)." They should be the first dozen or something.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That's a pretty awful thinking process then - and honestly outright wrong.



- being the greatest Mandalorian of a culture of warriors that rivals and fights the Jedi.
- defeating Malak, the second most powerful Jedi in the galaxy, in a single attack.
- being regarded centuries later throughout Mandalorian culture as the greatest Mandalore.

You should check out http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/revan-respect-thread/95278/. Scroll down to the "Combat Abilities" sections and read the feats that start out with "(Darth Revan). They should be the first dozen or something.

All I meant with my "awful thinking process" is that information on exactly HOW fast, strong, cunning, etc Mandalore was would alter Revan's feat considerably. For example if it was stated as Canon that Mandalore was as good as Kit Fisto at melee combat, and Revan defeated him with relatively minimal exertion, we now have a "bar" to go off of. As you correctly pointed out, indeed he is the leader of Mandalorians who kill Jedi, which is what makes it an excellent feat and most can/would assume that means he is a very skilled combatant. However without knowing explicitly HOW good, people would hesitate to place him above X-rate of skill, with X varying based on people's opinions.

As you will probably find out here sooner or later, most EU character's don't get the luxuries of having everything spelled out for them.
Implications, assumptions, comparisons, educated guesses, and power-scalling is pretty much needed for all the Ancient Sith and Jedi.

If we knew exactly how powerful they are, there wouldn't be a need to debate it.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
As you will probably find out here sooner or later, most EU character's don't get the luxuries of having everything spelled out for them.
Implications, assumptions, comparisons, educated guesses, and power-scalling is pretty much needed for all the Ancient Sith and Jedi.

If we knew exactly how powerful they are, there wouldn't be a need to debate it.

Oh I know. I am just saying it WOULD make things clearer. Also the "debate" perfectly entailing the varying opinions I mentioned. Anyways yes, I do think Darth Revan takes this.

Well, since I'm in a somewhat helpful mood today, here:


Fast enough to move far faster than the second most powerful Jedi during the "prime of the Jedi."

So pretty f***ing fast.


Strong enough to move as fast as the above while carrying around a massive battle-axe and a massive blaster rifle, while under the support of massive armor, while having an utterly massive built that looks like well over 7 feet.

So pretty f***ing strong.


He's crafty enough to almost defeat the Galactic Republic and conquer the entire galaxy, and would have if not for the intervention of Revan. He goes to extreme ends to achieve his goals, such as bombing entire worlds or wiping out entire civilizations.

So pretty f***ing devious.

---

In reality though, all we need to know is the following:



... to gauge Revan's feat. And we gauge it as being a pretty damn impressive display.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66

Dead at boss unless he uses sorcery.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
It's part of both canon, is it not? Seeing as it's got several novels and comic spin offs(Clone Wars: Wild Space for example) I always thought that was the case, to be honest.

But, that's a different discussion altogether, Sel. I don't wanna derail the new guy's thread.
It is. Just like the movies.

Anyway, falls at 4 or 5.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66

- being regarded centuries later throughout Mandalorian culture as the greatest Mandalore.


Where's this accolade from? :hmm

"Of the ancient Mandalores, we hold none in higher esteem than Mandalore the Ultimate, the Great Shadow Father of our clans."
―Tor Vizsla (Star Wars: The Bounty Hunter Code)

Huh, actually gives means for comparison between DLotS Ulic and Mandalorian Wars Revan in terms of saber skills if taken at face value then :hmm

Revan beating the superior Mandalore would be enough in theory really to do so.

That's just legacy, not necessarily combative prowess. I mean, Mandalore the Ultimate could've been well-remembered for instigating the Mandalorian Wars.

And besides, Ulic fought Mandalore under worse conditions. Hardly a fair comparison.

That's true, and I'd hardly take it at face value anyway given its a statement from someone in the future looking back on tales of the past derived mostly from millennium of hearsay

On the conditions of Ulic's fight, wouldn't have remembered tbh

Haven't exactly read the comics in a year or so

Sure, I "skim" to get scans for my recent respect threads, but that's more to do with remembering what given pages looked like than any actual memory of full context

Darth Revan from KOTOR?

1. Stomps
2. Stomps
3. Stomps
4. Split or dies
5. Dies
Boss: Dies

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
That's true, and I'd hardly take it at face value anyway given its a statement from someone in the future looking back on tales of the past derived mostly from millennium of hearsay

On the conditions of Ulic's fight, wouldn't have remembered tbh

Haven't exactly read the comics in a year or so

Sure, I "skim" to get scans for my recent respect threads, but that's more to do with remembering what given pages looked like than any actual memory of full context

Well, if we're going off Mandalorian talk, I believe one said Kun > Revan.

A Yavin shopkeeper said that too as I recall.

Eh. It's all in the name of hype. I don't place much credibility into this stuff.

Eh, found it anyway:

"Exar Kun was a far more powerful Sith Lord than any who have come since. The very ground trembled beneath his feet and when he looked at you.... you just....."

Where does that refer up to? TOR?

Kotor

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
- defeating Malak, the second most powerful Jedi in the galaxy, in a single attack.

What proof is there that Malak was already that powerful as of the time you're referring to?

Been ages since I read that comic, but I always got the impression that he was kind of a newb around that time.

You can't go to Yavin in KotOR?

Originally posted by SunRazer
You can't go to Yavin in KotOR?

I believe there is a way to go to a space station above Yavin in KOTOR on the PC version somehow. Coincidentally it is speculated to be the same space station still in orbit during SoR.

Neph said "a Yavin shopkeeper" - in other words, a shopkeeper on Yavin IV.

No Neph is referring to the Rodian store keeper in the space station above Yavin IV.

Yes.

Oh, ok. My bad.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Eh, found it anyway:

"Exar Kun was a far more powerful Sith Lord than any who have come since. The very ground trembled beneath his feet and when he looked at you.... you just....."

Thanks for finding that

Figure you could link me the youtube video?

The ground trembling quote is feasibly a valid quote on his TK seeing as the Rodian did do business with the Sith before his isolation for 50 years on that Station IIRC :hmm

Wouldn't exactly be unreasonable to imagine Kun getting impatient and intimidating the ****er with shit like that

It's hyperbole.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It's hyperbole.

It's also plausible as a display of TK from a ****er that did business with Kun

Is it definitive?

No, the Rodian could just be exaggerating out of fear

Is it worth noting in a respect thread as a plausible, if not unquantifiably strong display of TK?

Yes

Not like you haven't run with more outlandish sounding shit kiddo :maybe

The ground trembling beneath someones feet is the most classic form of hyperbole ever.

No

That'd be Cell the Solar System buster :maybe

This could go either way and is hardly a showing that's beyond Kun anyway

Doesn't exactly take much energy to shake the ground

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Thanks for finding that

Figure you could link me the youtube video?

The ground trembling quote is feasibly a valid quote on his TK seeing as the Rodian did do business with the Sith before his isolation for 50 years on that Station IIRC :hmm

Wouldn't exactly be unreasonable to imagine Kun getting impatient and intimidating the ****er with shit like that

Sure thing.

VwEfnAunMZ4

6.02