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Let's play connect the dots

I'm at work, so bored

Scenario 1: Duel
Scenario 2: Force
Scenario 3: All out

We already had this, didn't we?

Muur takes all. First round is a good fight. The others are pretty one-sided.

Muur might be more powerful, but Malak is the better combatant. He takes this.

No, he isn't. Muur fought Vong Krayt (who the former had initiated his healing technique on) for a period of time with no distinctive advantage either way, despite the fact that Muur was seven millennia out of practice with a blade, battling with Celeste for control of her body and using her lightsaber (which he was unfamiliar with), and controlling the Rakghouls.

He also has Dark Transfer, actually in-combat usable Drain, and can throw Malak's Lightning back at him. Malak isn't taking this.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Muur might be more powerful, but Malak is the better combatant. He takes this.

Originally posted by SunRazer
No, he isn't.

And Muur is not "maybe" more powerful, he's certainly more powerful.

http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/2788772255.gif

Originally posted by SunRazer
We already had this, didn't we?

Muur takes all. First round is a good fight. The others are pretty one-sided.

Don't post here regularly

So wouldn't know

Did say "let's play connect the dots" though

So let's play

Now, Malak aboard the Leviathan was generally stronger than Revan. Kind of a given when his ass was stasised and whirlwinded

Same Revan, on a Dark Side Nexus like Korriban, inside the tomb of Ajunta Pall, was sensed to be so strong in the Force by Pall it was "blinding"

Ajunta Pall is a peer if not objectively greater than Muur by virtue of having been the sitting Dark Lord

So I don't see any particular power gap

Ajunta Pall's spirit isn't the same as him in life, lol. He didn't even remember anything from his own time. Pall is pretty hard to gauge anyway. There's always going to be divided opinions on him.

And besides, Revan's natural strength in the Force obviously supersedes Malak's. Malak was just more proficient in wielding it up to the Leviathan.

On the other hand, Muur is more powerful than either Vong Krayt or Cade, who are frankly more powerful than Malak. His power feats are just better than Malak's too. And again, he can actually use Drain in combat against opponents without a nexus, he can catch and absorb/hurl back Malak's Lightning pretty easily, and he can use Dark Transfer as well. Those are edges that Malak simply can't circumvent.

Malak can "circumvent" them by virtue of being more powerful.

Inferior power doesn't generally overcome / absorb superior power.

lol @ Malak being more powerful. I thought you were conceding that Muur was more powerful?

And Muur still has Drain to shift the odds in his favor regardless of how you argue it, lol. Not to mention Malak's Lightning isn't above Vong Krayt's.

I said "might". Malak has drain too. It's not that uncommon of a power in the KotOR age.

We don't have much to gauge on Malak's lightning, true - but we know his Telekinesis great.

You suddenly seemed convinced that Malak was more powerful, though.

Malak's Drain hasn't ever been used in combat before, and even on nexus, he only siphoned life energies from helpless Jedi captives in machines that were already drawing their life energies to him (Malak).

It's safe to say that Malak is similar to Bane and finds it virtually impossible to employ Drain in combat.

His telekinesis is great, but it isn't better than Muur's, that's for sure.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Ajunta Pall's spirit isn't the same as him in life, lol. He didn't even remember anything from his own time.

So your argument is he doesn't remember how powerful he was in life nor is he able to sense his power that'd still be permeating the Tomb

Not what I was looking for tbh

Kind of disappointing as rebuttals go :hmm



How's it hard to gauge the fact he was sitting Dark Lord?

It's cut and dry, there's no reason to over think shit so long as contradictory data doesn't muck up the waters.



Maybe it's just because I tend to look at a bunch of different series more frequently, but I wouldn't assume Revan's sitting power didn't just increase as time went on like any other series

Why would his or Malak's reserves be a fixed figure exactly?



Can't say I see it the same way, but I come from a different debate system

This is my attempt at fitting in yours *shrugs*




Not particularly convinced nexuses offer much more than additive bumps myself with all the Jedi that function roughly as well on potent Dark Side nexus as the have

Or Thon and Bastila are just that monstrous, **** if I care or know

What you just said is honesty pretty retarded. How would you know if it hasn't been in use in combat before? We never saw one of his engagements as Dark Lord, let alone all to make that judgment. We see, however, him using Force Drain regularly in game mechanics, is a confirmed practitioner of the art as of the KotORCG, and is capable of Force Draining the incapacitated Jedi on the Star Forge in the middle of combat against Revan.


Which goes completely against the common theme of KotOR's games allowing easy and fast draining in combat situations.


Lmfao okay.

1. No, the point is that Ajunta Pall probably wouldn't possess the same degree of power in the Force/influence with it. Most Sith spirits lack the same degree of power they had in life.

2. Well, the others were technically his Shadow Hands, which would suggest Pall's greater strength in the Force. I can concede that, but then, Ajunta Pall sensing Revan's power as "blinding" doesn't mean it's a direct comparison to his own power. Plagueis was astonished by Maul's speed and skill, too.

3. Actually, it's more that when character X senses the raw power of character Y, it can easily be them sensing their potential. When it came to Plagueis sensing an untrained Palpatine's power, or various beings sensing a young Anakin's power, or even Palpatine recognizing Maul's power - it's obvious that it wouldn't be overwhelming if it was just them as kids. The way I see it, your "potential" is just your natural power, but it's unlocked over time as your mastery of the Force increases through training and whatever other means allow you to influence the Force better.

4. That's not really how I debate.

5. He hasn't ever shown Drain against an opponent, and he's only demonstrated it against helpless enemies under very favorable circumstances. I think it's fair to say that Malak is like Bane (I doubt he's more masterful in the Force than Bane is, too), and finds Drain nearly impossible to use in combat.

@Ant - lol @ game mechanics. Couldn't care less about that any more, to be honest. Otherwise we can have Surik demolishing Nihilus with Force powers after weakening him, but we all know that's not true.

Again, I know Malak is a practitioner of the technique. So is Bane, and the latter was able to describe the technique in detail. Regardless, he was only capable of using such powers on a nexus, and even then, it would've been exhausting were it not for the life energies of those he drained. It's very clear Bane couldn't just perform it at will, and he mentions just that in BoS.

Sure, he drained those utterly helpless fodder Jedi whilst amped on a potent nexus, and with machines that were already leeching their life energies and drawing them to him. He enjoys none of those favorable circumstances here.

> Lists reasonable evidence suggesting Malak might be able to use drain in combat to a degree where suggesting it is out of the equation is pretty stupid.
> Ignores reasonable evidence suggesting Malak might be able to use drain in combat to a degree where suggesting it is out of the equation is pretty stupid.
> Continues to believe Malak cannot use drain in combat and that suggesting he can is out of the equation - yet saw examples that suggests he indeed can.

The fact there is evidence at all makes your "hasn't ever" point mute.

Unless you have something else worthwhile to add to this discussion, I think we are done here in regards to where this debate ended up.

I would like to point out that Malak IS able to utilize Stasis Field. A rather potent ability in it's own right.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
> Lists reasonable evidence suggesting Malak might be able to use drain in combat to a degree where suggesting it is out of the equation is pretty stupid.
> Ignores reasonable evidence suggesting Malak might be able to use drain in combat to a degree where suggesting it is out of the equation is pretty stupid.
> Continues to believe Malak cannot use drain in combat and that suggesting he can is out of the equation - yet saw examples that suggests he indeed can.

The fact there is evidence at all makes your "hasn't ever" point mute.

Unless you have something else worthwhile to add to this discussion, I think we are done here in regards to where this debate ended up.

Stop trying to use greentext speak you have no idea what you're doing.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
> Lists reasonable evidence suggesting Malak might be able to use drain in combat to a degree where suggesting it is out of the equation is pretty stupid.
> Ignores reasonable evidence suggesting Malak might be able to use drain in combat to a degree where suggesting it is out of the equation is pretty stupid.
> Continues to believe Malak cannot use drain in combat and that suggesting he can is out of the equation - yet saw examples that suggests he indeed can.

The fact there is evidence at all makes your "hasn't ever" point mute.

Unless you have something else worthwhile to add to this discussion, I think we are done here in regards to where this debate ended up.

lol

So this sums up your Drain argument:

1. Malak knows Drain - Good for him. Bane did too - he still found it nearly impossible to use the power in combat. And I doubt you'd argue that Malak's knowledge and mastery of the Force transcends Bane's. Knowing Drain =/= being able to use it on a whim in combat.

2. Game mechanics - Non-canonical, and if you want it that way, the Exile can use Crush and Choke on Traya in the Trayus Core and even against Nihilus on the Ravager - and win purely because of that.

3. Malak used Drain on the Jedi captives - Oh, please. On a potent nexus and with the Jedi being utterly incapable of resisting in the slightest - not to mention they were in machines that, by Malak's own admission, were already transferring those energies to him. That's totally inapplicable to this circumstance.

Malak doesn't enjoy the benefits of a nexus here (which, if he's anything like Bane, would be a pre-requisite in order for him to effectively use the power in combat), and he's not up against some helpless fodder Jedi in machines that make it easy for Malak to siphon their life force - he's up against an ancient Sith Lord who knows the technique himself and has demonstrable proof of using it on a whim in combat, without requiring favorable circumstances (if anything, the circumstances were against him).

mmm You just conceded to me the entire point I was arguing.

No, I didn't. I was making it clear that whilst Malak knows Drain, like Bane, he isn't capable of just using it on a whim under normal circumstances, and nothing implies such. Muur, on the other hand, has already shown he can use it on a whim under neutral (or negative) circumstances. Thus, he's the one that you'd argue using Drain in this debate.

Good cop-out and attempt to save face, though.

Originally posted by SunRazer
he isn't capable of just using it on a whim under normal circumstances

Issue is, that wasn't what you were debating.

You resorted to that to prove your mute point.

And in thus, came an automatic concession.

My stance has always been that Malak can't just use it in combat. That was the whole basis for this debate. The point about him never demonstrably using it in combat before was my way of expressing that. Regardless, I don't have to prove a negative - it's up to you to show that Malak has ever demonstrated the power in combat in normal circumstances. That's what I was saying. If you can do that, I'll admit he can use Drain in this fight too.

Oh, and even regarding the debate about whether or not Malak has used it in combat before, my post above is still not a concession to it, lol. It's very clear all these "concession" arguments you make are attempts to save face.

Besides, you were actually arguing that Malak could use Drain in combat. So, as you like to say... "concession accepted".

No, your argument was that his drain "hasn't ever been used in combat before."

Your argument wasn't that he "can't just use it in combat."

You changed arguments. In such comes with a concession since you admit Malak can given circumstances.

Circumstances / environment advantages or not, he still has used it in combat. Your point is mute.
---
You have since made new points, but I don't really have interest in them.

I have greater enjoyment playing this little game then trying to get a point across with... someone like you.

Move along, move along.

He still hasn't ever used it in combat before.

And as I said, if you knew my stance on Malak, you'd realize I always supported the notion of him not being able to use it in combat.

This is my central point:

"It's safe to say that Malak is similar to Bane and finds it virtually impossible to employ Drain in combat."

Which hasn't been refuted. You're dancing around semantics to try and save face, but you're ignoring the greater picture and the point that is ultimately more relevant to this debate.

EDIT: Obviously I was referring to neutral ground in that comment, because there's no point bringing up nexus/favorable showings in a neutral fight. And just for the sake of clarity, by "in combat", I don't mean using it while fighting, but rather using it against somebody you're fighting, not some helpless fodder.

I wasn't debating your central point then, I was debating another point. That was made clear a while ago. Keep with the show.

@ EDIT: You obviously weren't. Otherwise you would have said "excluding them," or removed "ever" - which would apply to nexus fights.

1. Then it's irrelevant to the debate at hand.

2. This isn't a nexus fight, so there's no reason for me to refer to nexus showings. By default, I'm always referring to neutral circumstances, lol.

That feat is so utterly inapplicable to normal fights that it doesn't even need to be mentioned or specified that I'm not referring to it.

It's remarkably petty that you're dancing around on these semantics in an attempt to pursue a trivial victory instead of debating the topic at hand, all the while trying to save face. Not worth my time.

1.) Since when did I say it was?

2 and beyond.) Already addressed.

We are done here.

1. You didn't. I didn't say you said anything - all I'm saying is that it's completely irrelevant to the thread and thus not worth being discussed any further other than to be pursued for your trivial victory list.

2. Indeed. We're done.

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. No, the point is that Ajunta Pall probably wouldn't possess the same degree of power in the Force/influence with it. Most Sith spirits lack the same degree of power they had in life.

I'm aware

What bearing does it hold on him measuring the power of another person, being able to recall how powerful he felt in life, being able to feel the densest concentration of energy he left behind in his tomb a la Nadd, etc?



That's fair then.



How so? If there was parity between Pall and Revan's power, what about Revan would Pall find blinding that he'd otherwise see gauging himself/his followers?



This point would hold merit if Plagueis was speaking in terms of Maul's power in the Force.



I mean, I get why you think that, but I don't really see that as the full picture

Though that may just be an incomplete understanding of shit

So, correct me if I'm wrong/missing something

KOTOR in general seems written in a way that supports Revan and Malak's connections just continuing to grow

I mean you've got Darth Revan already having mastery over his power which I'd interpret as "he's able to chuck his energy into whatever the hell he wants and it'll have comparable effect/energy". The council worries about Malak eventually surpassing Revan... who's already supposed to have mastered his power? Yet apparently not seeing as he fights nigh evenly with an amped Malak who's now much stronger than when the pair previously had a "desperate final battle" when he was still Darth Revan?

And that's just KOTOR. He splits his soul in half and it's one of, if not totally, his strongest incarnations?

Despite Darth Revan having already supposedly mastered his powers, which KOTOR Revan proceded to eclipse despite being light sided and lacking that generic evil power boost the Sith seem to get upon falling?



By this I meant I'd just whip out that Wizards of the Coast accolade that compares him to Nadd and Kun that I've failed to find any contradictory narrative evidence too. That's what I'd normally bother to draw on.

Do their feats match?

**** no, but I'd remind you I come from a style of debate that doesn't care about conservation of energy and generally uses accolades for powerscaling when they're not contradicted by the story.

Remember, if you've ever read Dragon Ball's manga, Yamcha has shit feats. His best is blowing up a 10 meter section of a concrete wall way back in the 22nd World Tournament.

By accolades/power level he's stronger than a ****er that vaporized a Mountain (Roshi), nuked a City (Piccolo Daimao), leveled an island (Piccolo Jr 23rd WT), blew up the moon (Piccolo Jr Saiyan Saga), and could potentially destroy earth (Goku Saiyan Saga)

Not saying you should commit to that school of thought, just explaining where the thoughts come from at all. *shrugs*



He's clearly able to use it in the middle combat... or Revan's just kind of a dumbass for letting him slip away to drain that Jedi at all.

I'll respond later.

No rush

You're on an internet forum discussing one of the most subjective forms of debate that can pretend to be objective

This is essentially just for shits and giggles, no one's rushing you dude :maybe

lol

It would suggest he wasn't in peak condition, and again, Sith spirits generally aren't as powerful as they were in life.



It just means Revan's power was very considerable, not that it necessarily superseded his own. Though the word "blinding" would suggest that.



It's an example of astonishment regarding another character's ability. There's other examples - again, Sidious and Anakin are good examples. Even at a young age, their power was great and "blinding" to others - for instance, Sidious to Plagueis, but he was ultimately no match for Plagueis because his training and mastery in the Force was very limited in comparison.



I think KotOR's just written in a way to accommodate the RPG-like gameplay of leveling up. It doesn't set Revan apart from the examples I listed - he's a prodigy like Anakin and Sidious, only to a lesser extent. And it just so happens virtually every time in history, when a character senses another's power and is surprised, it's about sensing their potential.



Accolades are one of the few reliable sources of direct comparison between characters, so I'm all for using them, but I'd just prefer not to go overboard with them.

And Wizards of the Coast has a history of making absolutely stupid remarks, so I place virtually zero credibility in it when it comes to WotC comparing the power levels of various characters.



As I said:

"And just for the sake of clarity, by "in combat", I don't mean using it while fighting, but rather using it against somebody you're fighting, not some helpless fodder."

Sorry for any misconceptions, though.

Originally posted by SunRazer
It would suggest he wasn't in peak condition, and again, Sith spirits generally aren't as powerful as they were in life.

Maybe I'm not following because I just tend to stray to thinking about other series where sensing ki/magic/etc is common place, but why does he need to be at peak condition to feel Revan's power and compare it to his own/feel his own persisting in the tomb or remember what his was like for said comparison?



So... we agreeing or disagreeing here?

You sort of seem to be just weighing pros and cons :hmm



I know

I was just noting the context isn't exactly similar so you'd probably want to bring up a cogent example.



Those are better, but I'm still not of the mind that Force power isn't just a fixed power you learn to use better as you train.

Are some ****ers born with more? That's obvious

Are they limited to that reserve?

Not what I'd conclude with every bit of canon available.

Plenty of other series out there with Star Wars set up and all



Could be, but that's kind of edging towards things akin to authorial intent

Not my kind of thing to discuss, but I get why different forums do even if I find it too subjective even for this stupid hobby. :lmao



Suppose on this point we're going to end up agreeing to disagree :hmm

I see where you're coming from, but if it requires speculation on how the story was molded for a given part of canon to fit your position, I'm not exactly sold on the entire foundation.



Depends on what you call overboard I guess.



Only Accolades I'm aware of are the Bastila Shan and Malak one's tbh

Neither of which generally contradict how I'm accommodated to evaluating the verse

Suppose the Shan one is more dicey with you depending on how a given group compares Mace and Dooku, but eh.

Granted, I imagine what Wizards was doing there was more a nod to Lucas' commentary in RotS, but as I've said, not really one to guess at authorial intent.

I'm aware of this stance though, which is why I didn't bother bringing the accolade up here.

Though I'd argue taking a case by case basis with any source is how you should tackle something as opposed to just writing them all off. *shrugs*



Ah, that's fair

Wasn't really hedging anything in this thread on Malak using Drain anyway

It's really not too much different mechanically from any generic JRPG Drain magic in function tbh

WoC evidently claimed Malak was far stronger than Exar Kun.
I wouldn't trust them.

http://www.comicvine.com/darth-malak/4005-47892/forums/darth-malak-respect-thread-1549693/

Not that wild of a claim, tbh.

They have a lot worse though.

Originally posted by Kosmos Supreme
WoC evidently claimed Malak was far stronger than Exar Kun.
I wouldn't trust them.

Funnily enough?

Sans argument from belief (fallacy), nothing really contradicts it as an accolade

Or Yamcha in Dragon Ball's only wall level

Different series, same principle on accolades

Compliments the admittedly wide tier of "most powerful Sith Lords" they listed between Revan, Caedus, and Sidious

Malak being far stronger than Kun is a major blow to Kun, however.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Malak being far stronger than Kun is a major blow to Kun, however.

Not particularly on a purely cross fictional level

Nor does it mean his feats and who he can powerscale from got weaker

Korriban!Revan was post-Leviathan. Could just as easily say "same Revan" took down Malak on one of the most powerful dark nexuses in the mythos, despite the Sith being fueled by the power of nearly a dozen captive Jedi Knights.



Much like Kaan was objectively greater than Darth Bane.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Korriban!Revan was post-Leviathan. Could just as easily say "same Revan" took down Malak on one of the most powerful dark nexuses in the mythos, despite the Sith being fueled by the power of nearly a dozen captive Jedi Knights.

So

You're saying fresh from the Leviathan Revan, which is what Korriban was, grew exponentially from his fight with Malak to meeting Pall

He still had half Korriban to go through and all of Lehon



The straw man and lack of cogency is legit as ****

Malak, especially if you take the Nadd/Kun accolade of his at face value. Although for me it implies the guy is more in whatever tier they inhabit rather than him being superior since it's ambiguous to begin with.

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Not particularly on a purely cross fictional level

Nor does it mean his feats and who he can powerscale from got weaker
It actually does. It's not about Kun's feats being any less not-worthy, it's more about his placing in the Star Wars hierarchy. Malak was beaten by an amnesiac, while amped. Revan obviously wasn't at his best in KotOR, on multiple occasions. So while this is a case of making Malak look better, it undoubtedly makes Kun look much worse.

Or Revan was just that good to start off with.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It actually does. It's not about Kun's feats being any less not-worthy, it's more about his placing in the Star Wars hierarchy. Malak was beaten by an amnesiac, while amped. Revan obviously wasn't at his best in KotOR, on multiple occasions. So while this is a case of making Malak look better, undoubtedly makes Kun look much worse.

That's not remotely how it works

Malak rises, Kun doesn't fall.

It only means Revan and Malak are awesome

Saiyan Saga Goku's no less awesome because Yamcha eventually surpasses him in the android arc

Same thing here

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Or Revan was just that good to start off with.
Pfft. I refuse to place Revan, on a good day, any higher. http://r27.imgfast.net/users/2716/29/35/50/smiles/1751224631.png
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
That's not remotely how it works

Malak rises, Kun doesn't fall.

It only means Revan and Malak are awesome

Saiyan Saga Goku's no less awesome because Yamcha eventually surpasses him in the android arc

Same thing here
That analogy isn't even remotely comparable.

Originally posted by Kosmos Supreme
WoC evidently claimed Malak was far stronger than Exar Kun.
I wouldn't trust them.

http://www.comicvine.com/darth-malak/4005-47892/forums/darth-malak-respect-thread-1549693/

Malak > Vader tier confirmed.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Pfft. I refuse to place Revan, on a good day, any higher. http://r27.imgfast.net/users/2716/29/35/50/smiles/1751224631.png

That analogy isn't even remotely comparable.

That's called bias, not an argument :maybe

I mean, I know this hobby only has the veneer of objectivity, but there's only so much subjectivity you can allow for it to function

Yes, I know from the smiley you're hardly serious :maybe

Originally posted by AncientPower
Malak = Vader tier confirmed.

LOL

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
That's called bias, not an argument :maybe

I mean, I know this hobby only has the veneer of objectivity, but there's only so much subjectivity you can allow for it to function

Yes, I know from the smiley you're hardly serious :maybe
That's because this isn't an argument, yeah? I'm not debating with Ant about Revan. I don't have it in me. I've see Revan feats and accolades and made my choice on his placing, which pretty high if you must know. I added the smiley because Ant knows all this.

Originally posted by carthage
LOL

I laughed harder tbh.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I laughed harder tbh.

Genuine question

What's your rebuttal?

Not the laughter masking your cognitive dissonance

Is it feats?

I point to Yamcha in Dragon Ball

Is it unreliable Wizards of the Coast?

What are the dubious ones?

What besides personal bias makes you call foul on a given accolade?

Because Kun has been (somewhat) compared favourably to Darth Vader and listed numerous times as one of the most powerful Sith Lords of all time.

He knows more Force techniques than almost any Sith in the mythos, including Naga Sadow, Freedon Nadd and Darth Vader.

Also he is repeatedly referred to as the greatest Sith and darkest power of his era, which is back when Old Republic meant everything before PT, not the TOR term used these days.

Malak's jawplate >>>>> Exar Kun

nut up and deal with it people this is canon

Originally posted by AncientPower
Because Kun has been (somewhat) compared favourably to Darth Vader and listed numerous times as one of the most powerful Sith Lords of all time.

He knows more Force techniques than almost any Sith in the mythos, including Naga Sadow, Freedon Nadd and Darth Vader.

Also he is repeatedly referred to as the greatest Sith and darkest power of his era, which is back when Old Republic meant everything before PT, not the TOR term used these days.

Frequency and volume of accolades is frankly of little relevance

Sidious would still reign supreme with only one for example

Or Yamcha's just Wall level

So, instead of nothing, address my original question

ZEILON CONFIRMED

Dun dun DUN!!!!!!!

EDIT with official chatlogs:

Yusannis Zeilon : Listening to this song has my mind elsewhere
Emperordmb : I thought you mind was on the 4th dimension or some shit lol
Yusannis Zeilon : No, it's on my wife. I'm thinking about the day i'll finally be able to astral project, then get her out of that dark place.
Emperordmb : that dark place?
Emperordmb : you mean some other guy's bedroom?
Yusannis Zeilon : I'm serious when i say this. So i want you to drop your opinion of me and just hear me out for once
Emperordmb : ok
Yusannis Zeilon : If you can do that?
Yusannis Zeilon : KK
Emperordmb : go ahead
Emperordmb : ...
Yusannis Zeilon : Alright....
Yusannis Zeilon : When i was asleep, my dazed consciousness was drew to a place. It's better if i explain it like this (i can still remember it as clear as day, unlike my other experiences).
Yusannis Zeilon : Dream 2
Yusannis Zeilon : I was in a small parking lot where the time setting was mid-day, after looking around i noticed that i was within a city surrounded by the biggest forest trees i had ever seen. After adapting to the unknown atmosphere i was in, i found a tall woman whom i have never seen before. Her length in height exceeded my own, she had a Cyan iris, her hair was jet-black long going to the waist down, with a skin complexion lighter then mine, but not too light of being comparable to an albino individual. As i approached her, she didn't speak to me but rather remained vigilant of the surrounding areas. I reached for something in her back pocket but couldn't find it, so i kept searching and while i was searching... these things started coming out of the forest area and began killing the human inhabitants of the city. There was misery and despair in the air, they didn't look like any fictitious image i had seen in cinema, anime, or cartoon, but something more malevolent.
Yusannis Zeilon : I picked up the woman whom i didn't know and carried her through the forest area, dodging the malevolent beings chasing me, eventually reaching a road that lead somewhere unknown but safe. Then i had put her down and we ran Hand-in-hand down the road: with her to my left side, while i was on the right, as we ran... the malevolent beings started herding up by the hundreds on the sides of the road and later the thousands. And before we knew it.. there was something extremely massive chasing us from behind, i didn't turn around to see what it was, but by the time we almost made it to our destination, i was caught and the dream ended.
Emperordmb : ok
Emperordmb : I don't see what this has to do with a wife in a dark place
Yusannis Zeilon : Later on, with the help of my friends.. her identity was discovered partially.
Yusannis Zeilon : I'm getting to that
Emperordmb : k
Emperordmb : I'm listening (or reading technically)
Yusannis Zeilon : Now remember what i'v posted concerning the origin and meaning of dreams? "The word "Dead" is a misnomer. These people are not dead and are very much alive like us (as we already know). The only difference between them and us is that they don't have a physical body to return to. Many of us had dreams of deceased relatives. In such dreams, the dreamer and the deceased are both in the astral plane and attracted by to each other by strong emotional ties"?
Yusannis Zeilon : When a body goes to sleep, the untrained consciousness enters a daze, either pulled by the astral currents or the strong emotional ties from individuals who have known you prior to your current life.
Emperordmb : ok...
Yusannis Zeilon : She drew my dazed consciousness to that place, and after putting the piece together... i realized she's trapped by a dark and very powerful entity. (the one that was chasing me). All that was triggered after i touched her.
Yusannis Zeilon : *pieces i mean
Yusannis Zeilon : I was pulled there by a strong emotional tie she once held for me in our first lifetime.
Yusannis Zeilon : From what my friend researched on this he said.....
Yusannis Zeilon : "There are 5 angels trapped within different realms, the one you described was the first one. The only thing that was archived on her by another projector who attempted to gain access to that place is... she was known as 'Mother""
Yusannis Zeilon : Mother what is yet to be confirmed, though i'v determined she's Mother Nature from her appearance, character, and attire.
Emperordmb : ...
Yusannis Zeilon : Then there was another alluring female individual i'v been pulled to. But this one is worse
Yusannis Zeilon : The situation that is
Yusannis Zeilon : Dream 3.
Yusannis Zeilon : It was sun-set on the streets of Normandy. There i was in my auntie's house viewing myself in 3rd person sitting on the floor in the west corner of the house, normally behind where the couches would usually be. Eventually i switched to 1st person and saw another alluring woman whom i have never met in this lifetime coming from the hallway of the house walking towards the door. Her hair was flowing long down her back: with a dark brown color to it. Her skin tone was a bit more of a brighter tanned melon then mine: while possessing a height that was of the same length. She also had dark hazel brown eyes; i noticed her hands were being bound by something i couldn't see while i was observing her. Then unbeknownst to me was a mysterious man walking to her left side wearing a black attire, his face was something blacked out or chopped off as i could not identify his appearance so that it could be put into explanation.
Yusannis Zeilon : He was taking the bound female individual somewhere, and my first instinct told me to put on my footwear and stop it from happening, it felt almost as if i would fall through the concrete had i not. So after putting on my footwear, i was unknowingly viewing myself in 3rd person again before pursuing the captor of the bound woman that was being taken away, and right when i was within arm's reach of him and her switching back to 1st person.. everything went dark and the dream ended.
Yusannis Zeilon : "These dreams are starting to feel like experiences but simultaneously memories of my past life and distress signals shaping themselves into something key but different." That's how i felt about these bizzarre chain of events
Yusannis Zeilon : That's 2 out of the 5 angels, 3 of them are bound by an entity with the appearance of something too dark to give an exterior report on. Though one thing was made clear
Yusannis Zeilon : His eyes are white when you look at him from a distance.
Emperordmb : ...
Yusannis Zeilon : The other 2 are bound by darker forces.
Yusannis Zeilon : I know you don't believe in darkness and light. But my experiences already pre-determined what course of action i'm going to take. Especially with the information that keeps coming from other directions.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
ZEILON CONFIRMED

Or psychology major that does shitty fictional character battle calcs on NarutoForums

I know it's a joke, but come on now, I already waste my time doing stupid shit

Duping would be just WAY too low even for me :maybe

**** I remember his wall of text posts about Marka Ragnos. That guy was a trip

"Darth Shitious."

Man time flies really fast. I remember that stuff as though it were yesterday.

LOL that was totally worth my time to listen to and take chat logs of XD

lol @ Malak >>>> Kun being "not that wild of a claim". Especially if the source of this was Malak's cybernetics.

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Genuine question

What's your rebuttal?

Not the laughter masking your cognitive dissonance

Is it feats?

I point to Yamcha in Dragon Ball

Is it unreliable Wizards of the Coast?

What are the dubious ones?

What besides personal bias makes you call foul on a given accolade?

Kun has been stated to be greater than any Sith before him.

This includes pre-Kotor Vitiate.

Who is far above any incarnation of Malak.

Where exactly does Karness Muur use Drain in combat? I'm not familiar with that feat.

Whilst he's exchanging Lightning with Krayt. He states he's feeding on Krayt's power and making it his own.

Some argue it's Consume Essence but that's kind of a stupid thing to boast to another Sith, especially one like Krayt who is already highly masterful of that technique.

I always thought that meant he redirected his Lightning somehow, or that he fed off his anger the way Bane or Scourge do.

It doesn't make much sense that Krayt was drained, or that he didn't return the favor, given that Krayt himself was very accomplished with the technique to the point where he could seriously drain both Luke and Abeloth.

Malak is stronger than Kun. Word of God>>characters who've only heard legends.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Kun has been stated to be greater than any Sith before him.

This includes pre-Kotor Vitiate.

Who is far above any incarnation of Malak.

No snark/sarcasm?

Thanks for actually giving me a real rebuttal

Finding contradiction is an actual debate tactic

Not waxing on about why you don't like a given accolade

That said?

Doesn't the TOR Encyclopedia give Vitiate a few accolades that contradict Kun's?

Something about his ritual creating the strongest Dark Side nexus ever as he consumed it and one referencing his supremacy as the most powerful darksider ever with some context added in reference to his previous ritual? :hmm

Could look for them later if you don't mind me being lazy for a few hours/days.

Have 3 days off, don't feel like wasting too much time on this currently.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Whilst he's exchanging Lightning with Krayt. He states he's feeding on Krayt's power and making it his own.

Some argue it's Consume Essence but that's kind of a stupid thing to boast to another Sith, especially one like Krayt who is already highly masterful of that technique.

Wasn't he just using Tutaminis to absorb Krayt's Lightning?

Hence "making Krayt's power his own"

I mean, sure, the powers are functionally similar, but context kind of suggests Tutaminis.

Think you're just reading a bit too much into that one

Sort of like one feat you have in your Dreypa respect thread IIRC where the one characters words could just be in reference to Dreypa giving a fairly charismatic speech instead of some form of mental domination

I get why you interpret either as you do, just I'd figure occam's razor and context fail to support either conclusion fully.