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Goku
Vegeta
Gohan
Piccolo
Gotenks
Trunks
Majin Buu

Vs


Silver Surfer
Gladiator
Beta Ray Bill
Nova Prime
Ronan
Quasar
Drax

Team 1 are at Dragonball Super & BOG levels. Fight takes place on a small lifeless planet. Everyone is fighting in character.

No BFR


Who wins?

Originally posted by byrdgang21
Goku
Vegeta
Gohan
Piccolo
Gotenks
Trunks
Majin Buu

Vs


Silver Surfer
Gladiator
Beta Ray Bill
Nova Prime
Ronan
Quasar
Drax

Team 1 are at Dragonball Super & BOG levels. Fight takes place on a small lifeless planet. Everyone is fighting in character.

No BFR



Who wins?

TBH I think that Surfer, BRB and Gladiator have a very good chance to solo. Nova Prime, Ronan, Drax and Quasar together could take the Z Fighters for a majority.

Goku solos.

Annihilators with low diff.

You should have made Gohan mystic and have it be future Trunks. As it is...it's a tough call, but I think the fighters might get edged

Fighters are too vulnerable against exotic powers and energy manipulators. If the Planet is destroyed or if Surfer or BRB remove the oxygen only Buu will be able to fight and Goku will have to tp to another Planet.

The Z fighters overall is far more powerful. I'm giving it to them.

Lol, Surfer causes major issues and Gladiator is so much physically stronger he could potentially just fly through them like a brick through jello.

Without equalizing speed, most DBZ threads are pointless.

Gladiator - arguably - has the best fighting speed of all Annihilators and even he doesn't use it often enough to pose a threat.

DBZ characters operate at incredibly high speed all the time, while in combat.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Lol, Surfer causes major issues and Gladiator is so much physically stronger he could potentially just fly through them like a brick through jello.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Lol, Surfer causes major issues and Gladiator is so much physically stronger he could potentially just fly through them like a brick through jello.


I think you probably need to read these comics with the characters and look at how they fight.

Gladiator isn't stronger than anyone here.

Originally posted by byrdgang21
Goku
Vegeta
Gohan
Piccolo
Gotenks
Trunks
Majin Buu

SSJ3, SSJG or SBG Goku?

Mystic Gohan?

Gotenks? Think you made a typo here. Having Goten and Trunks would make more sense. And slightly less of a stomp.

--
Not that it matters. DB team rapes.

Originally posted by carver9
I think you probably need to read these comics with the characters and look at how they fight.

Gladiator isn't stronger than anyone here. so in your opinion Gladiator doesn't fly? Or he doesn't use his durability?

Surfer has high level energy manipulation, vs literal glass cannons.

Please name any strength feat accomplished by the Z-fighters that is even remotely in the HH tier.

Bump

Goku was took out by a ring laser, something Luke Cage could have tanked. Gladiator kills these weaklings with his ease , BRB throws stormbreaker through their bodies or Surfer opens a black hole in the middle of the z fighter formation.

2-0

There is context to that, you don't need to lowball.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
TBH I think that Surfer, BRB and Gladiator have a very good chance to solo. Nova Prime, Ronan, Drax and Quasar together could take the Z Fighters for a majority.

Is that an agreeing laugh, or are you wrong?

Gladiator alone stomps
Silver surfer alone stomps

Noone in DBZ is FTL/MFTL they speed blitz quicker than you can say "No!"

Annihilators stomp

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
so in your opinion Gladiator doesn't fly? Or he doesn't use his durability?

Surfer has high level energy manipulation, vs literal glass cannons.

Please name any strength feat accomplished by the Z-fighters that is even remotely in the HH tier.

You really shouldn't ask me about Gladiator. I know more about him than almost anyone on the forum. If you're looking at high showings ONLY, Gladiator gives Odin a fight. On AVERAGE, any if the Z fighter mentioned here would destroy Gladiator.

How is Surfer approaching this fight and provide scans proving what you say he does in a fight. I know how Surfer fight and he would get blitzed and combo to koed until he falls to sleep. Goku is on another level.

I don't have to name any strength fts for Goku because I know he can hurt Surfer. That's like me asking you to name some strength fts for Odin proving that he can hurt Hulk with punches since Hulk strength fts are far better. Odin doesn't need strength fts for us to know he would drop Hulk in a physical confrontation. Goku has displayed he has the power to drop anyone here and given what I've seen from everyone here and how they fight in character, Super Saiyan Goku solos.

Originally posted by BeyonderGod
Gladiator alone stomps
Silver surfer alone stomps

Noone in DBZ is FTL/MFTL they speed blitz quicker than you can say "No!"

Annihilators stomp

Show me anyone on the annihlator COMBATING at light speed. Scans.

Yeah, most comic characters are slowpokes compared to those of Dragon Ball. Anyone who watched the anime or read the manga knows that.

Gladiator's shown he can strike at light speed, but that wasn't a real combat (Glads was attacking Reed's hologram, which actually was Cap blocking every single one of Glads' punches with his shield).

DB team has deadly speed, skills, vast energy output and even their str/dur stats are nothing to laugh at. Marvel team dies.

Originally posted by carver9
You really shouldn't ask me about Gladiator. I know more about him than almost anyone on the forum. If you're looking at high showings ONLY, Gladiator gives Odin a fight. On AVERAGE, any if the Z fighter mentioned here would destroy Gladiator.

How is Surfer approaching this fight and provide scans proving what you say he does in a fight. I know how Surfer fight and he would get blitzed and combo to koed until he falls to sleep. Goku is on another level.

I don't have to name any strength fts for Goku because I know he can hurt Surfer. That's like me asking you to name some strength fts for Odin proving that he can hurt Hulk with punches since Hulk strength fts are far better. Odin doesn't need strength fts for us to know he would drop Hulk in a physical confrontation. Goku has displayed he has the power to drop anyone here and given what I've seen from everyone here and how they fight in character, Super Saiyan Goku solos. this shit.

Lol at Gladiator being Odin level...

Goku has no relevant strength or speed feats to compare so the only arguing you can do is lowball. The only FTL character in DBZ (Whis) confirmed Goku & Vegeta are still below synapse speed.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
this shit.

Lol at Gladiator being Odin level...

Goku has no relevant strength or speed feats to compare so the only arguing you can do is lowball. The only FTL character in DBZ (Whis) confirmed Goku & Vegeta are still below synapse speed.

Show me those combat fts then and show me on panel combat fts of how the Annihilators will approach this fight.

You the "forum's Gladiator expert" need me to show you Gladiator punching? Really now...

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
You the "forum's Gladiator expert" need me to show you Gladiator punching? Really now...

I'm asking you to show me the fts you are using to suggest Gladiator beats anyone here. Scans please because on average, Gladiator gets blitzed and beat to sleep by Goku. Now again, if we are arguing primarily off of high showings, that's when things get interesting.

A couple of spider-man level goons can't beat Gladiator.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
A couple of spider-man level goons can't beat Gladiator.

Pym Particles overdose?

A generic ki blast from any Z fighters at DBS/BOG levels will hurt Glads. Renzoku Energy Dan will tear him to pieces.

Galick Gun or Kamehameha = Gladiator vaporized.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
A couple of spider-man level goons can't beat Gladiator. Yes, the same guys who hurt each other with punches while palming or tanking planetary blasts are just Spider Man level.

And this is in defense of Gladiator who is just a cornucopia of low feats. Gambit is above Goku level.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Pym Particles overdose?

A generic ki blast from any Z fighters at DBS/BOG levels will hurt Glads. Renzoku Energy Dan will tear him to pieces.

Galick Gun or Kamehameha = Gladiator vaporized. nothing has happened in DBS... Beerus isn't here and he chumped the Z fighters.

So how is BoG relevant? You don't even have 5 saiyans here for god mode.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
nothing has happened in DBS... Beerus isn't here and he chumped the Z fighters.

So how is BoG relevant? You don't even have 5 saiyans here for god mode.

They're post Buu Saga, that's enough.

God mode did happen, Goku absorbed the godly ki and became SBG... unless the OP meant him to be specifically at pre-ritual levels.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Gambit is above Goku level.

Corsair and Cyclops before his first upgrade ever must be, too?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Pym Particles overdose?

A generic ki blast from any Z fighters at DBS/BOG levels will hurt Glads. Renzoku Energy Dan will tear him to pieces.

Galick Gun or Kamehameha = Gladiator vaporized.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
They're post Buu Saga, that's enough.

God mode did happen, Goku absorbed the godly ki and became SBG... unless the OP meant him to be specifically at pre-ritual levels.



Corsair and Cyclops before his first upgrade ever must be, too?

can you prove Goku can go SSJG without it? He didn't in RoF and SSJGSSJ was pretty much garbage.

He went SSJG again in the final effort to stop Beerus from destroying the Earth, remember.

Anyway, he doesn't need to go SSJG, as most energies from that form he has in the "base" Saiyan Beyond God state now.

There is a ton of context to that though. He had just recently run out of god Ki, he thought the earth was doomed, everyone was praying to him & he immediate fell back out of it.

Based on? Even the Blueper Saiyan form was a massive downgrade from God form.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Blueper Saiyan form.

Is it odd that I like this marginally better than the official name? mmm

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
There is a ton of context to that though. He had just recently run out of god Ki, he thought the earth was doomed, everyone was praying to him & he immediate fell back out of it.

Based on? Even the Blueper Saiyan form was a massive downgrade from God form.

Based on the fact that he still was able to fight 70% Beerus.

In RoF? Beerus fought nobody, both Goku & Vegeta trained vs a daydreaming Whis and got owned instantly. Infact I think both were two pieced.

If you're talking BoG Goku was thoroughly smashed and humbled.
-----
Another point for Anni stomp, the Z fighters can't sense their energy or even worse if they can sense something (life force) it will cause them to get very cocky.

As Carver said, when discussing high-ends Spider-man beat up Firelord; so its only value is spank material for fanboys.

As far as consistent portrayals are concerned however; the Silver Surfer and arguably Gladiator are the only ones that compare to the listed Z-fighters. What I mean with compare is that there is room for debate as to whether they'd win or not.

Lol, no.

Go beat yourself with a golden maul

http://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/super-smash-bros-next/thumb/7/73/Smashpic300pgjrwpgijwgjwgoldenhalpenwpigepihne.jpg/468px-Smashpic300pgjrwpgijwgjwgoldenhalpenwpigepihne.jpg



Although, I can see Astner's point. The problem I see, in general, with examining comic book characters vs anime/manga (or anyone, really) is that comic characters are often handle by multiple writers, and of course, the manner in which they're handled differs, sometimes greatly, depending on the writer (Don't we all just love Frank Miller's Batman? vin); hence the faulty inconsistency. Anime and manga, on the other hand, are usually handled exclusively by their respective creators, with a clearer, more pure idea of how the characters are portrayed and who/what they're intended to be.

That said, I'm not exactly sure what the remedy for this would be, but I just wanted to mention it.

Bill took a nap in a sun...

Even Whis admitted he doesn't have that level of power and Whis would rape this team.

I'm not sure how this is even a fight.

I'm not sure where you're going with that. I haven't seen the latest Z movies.

minor Revival of F spoiler

Whis admitted he couldn't recreate the sun that Beerus destroyed

I'm guessing its that Goku has what it take to handle the Annihilators since he was able to put up a fight against Beerus who ,according to Whis, destroyed two suns.

Goku was curb stomped by Beerus, even with his amp.

The entire team of Annihilators almost died from this attack...

http://i43.tinypic.com/t03eo9.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/2009yco.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/b6ec5x.jpg

I feel pretty got darn safe at saying that Kayo Ken Goku could replicate that blast.

Originally posted by carver9
The entire team of Annihilators almost died from this attack...

http://i43.tinypic.com/t03eo9.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/2009yco.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/b6ec5x.jpg

I feel pretty got darn safe at saying that Kayo Ken Goku could replicate that blast. first, the explosion is scaleless. Second, you think Saiyan arc Goku can shatter an amped Quasar's shield...?

If you weren't so damn funny, I'd ignore you like H1

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
first, the explosion is scaleless. Second, you think Saiyan arc Goku can shatter an amped Quasar's shield...?

If you weren't so damn funny, I'd ignore you like H1

You can tell the size by looking at the ship in the middle of the blast.

Shatter an amped Quasar shield? What in the world are you talking about? The shields were not shattered there. What I'm telling you is, they would've died from that attack 'if Quasar shields were not in place'. Do you understand now? A attack that Goku could easily replicate.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Its from right before Bill fought Stardust. Btw stars are always combusting, it's what makes them stars.
You mean that stars undergo fusion? Yes. But the effect of a star released through fusion is significantly less than the effect of a supernova.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
We are using high end as standard
Well. I'm not. I'm using consistently reliable portrayals in which case Silver Surfer and Gladiator are the only ones that can be considered threats. Whether either of them would solo or lose is a topic of speculation which I'm not too interested in.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Goku can't sence anyone here's power level and thus would fight very sloppy. It's also been shown in the Buu arc that their "high" speed fighting ability comes from that sense.
Majin Buu fought without sensing chi and he was able to keep up with the Z-fighters. So the advantage of sensing ki is marginal at best.

High end is not the same thing as outlier or PIS (Spider-man vs firelord).

For what im reading here, for sure, you guys are taking high end Goku for this fight, but average (whatever that means) for comic guys.

Why do you think Bill is not a thread for then Astner ?

Originally posted by Astner
You mean that stars undergo fusion? Yes. But the effect of a star released through fusion is significantly less than the effect of a supernova.

Well. I'm not. I'm using consistently reliable portrayals in which case Silver Surfer and Gladiator are the only ones that can be considered threats. Whether either of them would solo or lose is a topic of speculation which I'm not too interested in.

Majin Buu fought without sensing chi and he was able to keep up with the Z-fighters. So the advantage of sensing ki is marginal at best. ...care to prove Beerus made a star go supernova over just dissipating it.

Bill is roughly Surfers equal, so I'm not sure why you are excluding him. Ronan and Nova have some solid feats and quasar is like tailor made to kill Z fighters.

Ok, so one has that ability. Goku told that energy eating dragon thing. To lazy to look up his name.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
High end is not the same thing as outlier or PIS (Spider-man vs firelord).

For what im reading here, for sure, you guys are taking high end Goku for this fight, but average (whatever that means) for comic guys.

Why do you think Bill is not a thread for then Astner ?

What is a high end Goku and what is an average Goku?

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
...care to prove Beerus made a star go supernova over just dissipating it.

Bill is roughly Surfers equal, so I'm not sure why you are excluding him. Ronan and Nova have some solid feats and quasar is like tailor made to kill Z fighters.

Ok, so one has that ability. Goku told that energy eating dragon thing. To lazy to look up his name.

Surfer and Bills are equals?

Not even close. Beerus would rape Surfer and easily at that.

Originally posted by carver9
What is a high end Goku and what is an average Goku? Really?

Goku screws around 99% of the time until someone dies and then gets serious.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Really?

Goku screws around 99% of the time until someone dies and then gets serious.

What fight did he screw around with.

I know for a fact Goku would see this lady in slow motion.


http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/6/63189/1305200-silversurferv308022.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/6/63189/1305201-silversurferv308103.jpg

And Bills would treat her like she is a fly. He would probably stand in one spot and let her pound on him without suffering a scratch.

Buu
Cell
Androids
Mecha Frieza
Majin Vegeta
The energy sucking dragon

The fights he didn't screw around with:
Raditz (unconfirmed as he was curb stomped)
Nappa (*multiple deaths caveat*)
Vegeta (though he does spare the murder of his friends)
Ginyu force
Frieza (Krillian, Vegeta & all of Namek are destroyed and Goku is still dicking around but he was far too powerful)
Kid Buu

Originally posted by carver9
I know for a fact Goku would see this lady in slow motion.


http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/6/63189/1305200-silversurferv308022.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/6/63189/1305201-silversurferv308103.jpg Surfer has feats of reacting at a femtosecond and traversing the entire cosmos in a few panels... Whis confirmed Goku can't physically move at light speed.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Buu
Cell
Androids
Mecha Frieza
Majin Vegeta
The energy sucking dragon

The fights he didn't screw around with:
Raditz (unconfirmed as he was curb stomped)
Nappa (*multiple deaths caveat*)
Vegeta (though he does spare the murder of his friends)
Ginyu force
Frieza (Krillian, Vegeta & all of Namek are destroyed and Goku is still dicking around but he was far too powerful)
Kid Buu

He didn't screw around in the Buu fight. The only reason he didn't kill Buu was to give Vegeta a chance to fight. He doesn't have to worry about that in this fight.

He didn't screw around in the Cell fight. Remember, he attempted to kill Cell. Blew half of his body off. If you call that screwing around, I don't know what to tell you.

Which Android fight did he screw around in?

Him and Mechanical Frieza didn't fight. Remember, he sensed Trunks on the planet and knew there was no need to join in the battle since he felt Trunks was capable of stopping Frieza.

He did hold back on Vegeta and he only did that because he cared about him. Nothing more, nothing less.

He killed the energy sucking dragon.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Surfer has feats of reacting at a femtosecond and traversing the entire cosmos in a few panels... Whis confirmed Goku can't physically move at light speed.

When did Whis confirm Goku couldn't move at light speed? Stop making up stuff.

Surfer combat speed is boo boo compared to Z fighters. They would circle around him and punch him to sleep as easy as it is for me to type this sentence up.

Originally posted by carver9
He didn't screw around in the Buu fight. The only reason he didn't kill Buu was to give Vegeta a chance to fight. He doesn't have to worry about that in this fight.

He didn't screw around in the Cell fight. Remember, he attempted to kill Cell. Blew half of his body off. If you call that screwing around, I don't know what to tell you.

Which Android fight did he screw around in?

Him and Mechanical Frieza didn't fight. Remember, he sensed Trunks on the planet and knew there was no need to join in the battle since he felt Trunks was capable of stopping Frieza.

He did hold back on Vegeta and he only did that because he cared about him. Nothing more, nothing less.

He killed the energy sucking dragon.

? The first was Fat Buu. He told Piccolo he didn't kill Buu because he's not supposed to be alive. About as dumb as possible.

He gave Cell a Fuc*ing Senzu bean, before sending in his son...

Goku not taking his meds till it hit him, not bfr 18 before she could be absorbed.

Exactly, he knew Frieza and Cold were on earth but forgot IT

He allowed Buu to be revived, instead of humbling Vegeta... A new level of dumb.

Agreed... In the dumbest way possible. Quasar is on team....Originally posted by carver9
When did Whis confirm Goku couldn't move at light speed? Stop making up stuff.

Surfer combat speed is boo boo compared to Z fighters. They would circle around him and punch him to sleep as easy as it is for me to type this sentence up. ....Jesus

Right after Whis embarrassed both Goku and Vegeta, he points out that they aren't fast enough because they are limited by their synapses. Don't call me a liar because you fail at comprehension.

Lol, he has faster reaction and travel speed feats but sure... Somehow they are faster because you wanna argue them fighting a sleeping Surfer...

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
...care to prove Beerus made a star go supernova over just dissipating it.
Wouldn't dissipating it be a greater feat considering that a supernova occurs naturally after the nuclear fuel is exhausted; assuming that the star is large enough?

But let's look at Marvel. What characters have shown to be able to destroy stars? Jean Grey when she first because the Dark Phoenix. Galactus destroyed three of them in Annihilation. Now, I'm fully aware that these characters are beyond Beerus in terms of power. But my point is that this is a feat of energy projection well beyond the Annihilators capabilities.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Bill is roughly Surfers equal,
How is Bill Surfer's equal? The Surfer has seemingly limitless power with which he can warp reality with and he is constantly portrayed as holding back due to his pacifistic nature making it difficult to pin down a limit to his power; while Bill on the other hand is Odinson's equal.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Ronan and Nova have some solid feats and quasar is like tailor made to kill Z fighters.
Ronan is too slow and too weak, Nova is also fairly limited in terms of feats as well as his portrayal in confrontations with other characters, and I'm not sure why you think Quasar's shields would allow him to survive a jackhammer of blasts that would tear planets to shreds; because they've been consistently shattered by less.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
? The first was Fat Buu. He told Piccolo he didn't kill Buu because he's not supposed to be alive. About as dumb as possible.

He gave Cell a Fuc*ing Senzu bean, before sending in his son...

Goku not taking his meds till it hit him, not bfr 18 before she could be absorbed.

Exactly, he knew Frieza and Cold were on earth but forgot IT

He allowed Buu to be revived, instead of humbling Vegeta... A new level of dumb.

Agreed... In the dumbest way possible. Quasar is on team.... ....Jesus

Right after Whis embarrassed both Goku and Vegeta, he points out that they aren't fast enough because they are limited by their synapses. Don't call me a liar because you fail at comprehension.

Lol, he has faster reaction and travel speed feats but sure... Somehow they are faster because you wanna argue them fighting a sleeping Surfer...

He wasn't suppose to intervene in what was going on in the living World which is the reason he said he will leave it to the boys to take out Buu. The dead have rules as well buddy.

He gave Cell a Senzu bean because he knew Gohan would win. Wait a minute. I thought you said Goku plays around in HIS fights, not a fight against Gohan.

Why would he need to intervene against Frieza when he knew Trunks would take him out? Are you forgetting that?

He didn't allow Buu to do anything. Remember, he told Supreme Ki and Gohan to take out Buu while he kept Vegeta busy.

Quasar would get destroyed by Goku before he got the chance to bat an eye.


So Goku and VEGETA being unable to tag a guy who is massively faster than light means they can't go light speed? Whis told them why they couldn't hit him and it had nothing to do with them not being light speedsters. He said that they have to think about their movement whereas he doesn't. His reactions is natural and he said that once they master that, they will be untouchable. Had nothing to do with them being slower than light. Just stop.

Also, Goku combat speed piss on anyone here. I don't think you understand consistency.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rmZnGKoQkrE

Right around 2:30-2:40ish is the conversation. I expect an apology.

You are limited by your nervous system.

The Japanese version says synapse, but either version puts them below LS.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rmZnGKoQkrE

Right around 2:30-2:40ish is the conversation. I expect an apology.

You are limited by your nervous system.

The Japanese version says synapse, but either version puts them below LS.
In Carver's defense, it doesn't explicitly point out light speed as a limitation. You might argue that their synapses can't fire faster than light because it's nomologically impossible for information to travel faster than the speed of light, but then you'd have to apply that reasoning to the Annihilators as well.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rmZnGKoQkrE

Right around 2:30-2:40ish is the conversation. I expect an apology.

You are limited by your nervous system.

The Japanese version says synapse, but either version puts them below LS.

So Saiyan nervous system is equal to human nervous system?

Scans.

Originally posted by Astner
In Carver's defense, it doesn't explicitly point out light speed as a limitation. You might argue that their synapses can't fire faster than light because it's nomologically impossible for information to travel faster than the speed of light, but then you'd have to apply that reasoning to the Annihilators as well. The Anni have undeniable feats of moving faster than light. Originally posted by carver9
So Saiyan nervous system is equal to human nervous system?

Scans. you are the one proving they are not. Though there is speculation that humans and saiyans are fairly closely related (great ape ancestors and human medicine working on saiyans)((even doctors seem to view saiyans a close to humans))

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
The Anni have undeniable feats of moving faster than light.
You force a nomological tautology to Dragon Ball that clearly doesn't apply. The speed of light was exceeded by the space ships that were used to travel to Namek.

And if you want to be technical, Marvel's explanation for superluminal travel is travel through hyperspace. Just Google image Marvel hyperspace and you'll find tons of references to it.

Originally posted by Astner
You apply a nomological tautology to Dragon Ball that clearly doesn't apply to it. The speed of light was exceeded by the space ships that were used to travel to Namek.

And if you want to be technical, Marvel's explanation for superluminal travel is travel through hyperspace. Just Google image Marvel hyperspace and you'll find tons of references to it. ...why did Whis say it then? I'd hit the other points but I want that answer.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
...why did Whis say it then? I'd hit the other points but I want that answer.
He didn't point out that they were slower than light. What he did point out was that they lost reaction time because they spent too much time overthinking their actions.

Originally posted by Astner
He didn't point out that they were slower than light. What he did point out was that they lost reaction time because they spent too much time overthinking their actions. in both the original and dub he points out that they are limited by the speed of their (synapses/nervous) systems.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
in both the original and dub he points out that they are limited by the speed of their (synapses/nervous) systems.
Yes. But he doesn't point out that the speed of the signals in their nervous system are slower than light. That's an assumption on your part.

No, it's an assumption that the Saiyan nervous system is run on something other than electricity.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
No, it's an assumption that the Saiyan nervous system is run on something other than electricity.
Using DC comics as an intermediate, what about characters like the Flash? Clearly the Flash is human and so his nervous system should transmit electrochemical signals as well, which nomologically are limited by the speed of light.

So once again, my question is: Why should we restrict Dragon Ball by nomological contradictions while not holding DC and Marvel to the same standard? Keep in mind that Dragon Ball already have instances of superluminal space travel.

Flash has undeniable feats of FTL... I'm not sure what you don't get.

One universe has stated a rule on thier fictional aliens, the other doesn't.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
The Anni have undeniable feats of moving faster than light. you are the one proving they are not. Though there is speculation that humans and saiyans are fairly closely related (great ape ancestors and human medicine working on saiyans)((even doctors seem to view saiyans a close to humans))

Are you really comparing SAIYANS to human beings, physically? They are not made the same. You applying human beings physiology to a Saiyan is where you are wrong at. A Saiyan isn't made of the same stuff that humans are made of. Hell, Saiyan babies are stronger and more durable than humans. The proof isn't on me to prove their physical makeup is different, it's on you to prove that everything about them is the same.

Proof please. Beerus has shown FTL speed as well but he still have the same problem Whis said about the Saiyans.

Yea Saijens are a alien warrior race capable of being Gods, don't know how they are being compared to humans.

Originally posted by carver9
Are you really comparing SAIYANS to human beings, physically? They are not made the same. You applying human beings physiology to a Saiyan is where you are wrong at. A Saiyan isn't made of the same stuff that humans are made of. Hell, Saiyan babies are stronger and more durable than humans. The proof isn't on me to prove their physical makeup is different, it's on you to prove that everything about them is the same.

Proof please. Beerus has shown FTL speed as well but he still have the same problem Whis said about the Saiyans. so in your opinion Tien is peak human? As he is human...

What is Beerus's FTL feat?

About Saiyans they have a weakeness in their biology. They need to eat, to sleep, rest, breathe, they cant fight with great injurys in internal organs, they could die of heart disease, etc. They are like humans in many therms.

And those things are very easy to by explored by Surfer who have cosmic awareness and can manipulate molecules at will. Even Bill can just remove all oxygen from battlefield, etc.

But this dont mean that they cant go FTL. They just never did, they have no feats of this level (wich is casual to many of Annihilators team).

Also i dont understand why Nova is not a factor. He has better speed feats than DBZ team, has hurted High Heralds and have shield feats strong enough to withstand some attacks from DBZ team.


Originally posted by carver9
What is a high end Goku and what is an average Goku?

Well, going by the "average logic" we should see what happens everytime Goku attack with a ki blast. Most of times it destroys only a mountain. And many time he is hurted by a ki blast that dont destroy even a country.

Yes, it sound retarted right ?

Then is better ignore 90% of ki blasts and get only the most powerfull ones ? Agree. Use that to comic guys too.

Surfer combat speed is boo boo compared to Z fighters. They would circle around him and punch him to sleep as easy as it is for me to type this sentence up.

This combat feat is better than anything this team ever done, by a lot:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111112612/3510045-3201182937-27248.jpg

Surfer could circle the team forever and he would never be tagged.

Daredevil and Parker tagged him just fine.

Rhino tagged him just fine.

Skaar did.

Hell, everybody did.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
so in your opinion Tien is peak human? As he is human...

What is Beerus's FTL feat?

Tien is super human. Don't understand what Tien have to do with this anyways. Due to kai, his body responds in a different manner as well. His eyes are faster, mind, everything has sped up for Tien. You apply real world logic to DBZ fighters is laughable when everything about them responds off kai.

https://youtu.be/6Nks-yThwUM

Here is Beerus FTL speed showing. It took Whis a minute to get to the dinosaur planet and we know Whis can achieve far FTL speeds while flying. Beerus gets there in a minute and some seconds. Remember, Whis tried to get back within 3 minutes. When Beerus shows up Whis tells him he had 40 sec left.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
This combat feat is better than anything this team ever done, by a lot:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111112612/3510045-3201182937-27248.jpg

Surfer could circle the team forever and he would never be tagged.

So him flying around in a circle is combat speed? Lol, I don't think Goku or any of the Z fighters would have issues tagging him if he's doing something like that.

Spider-Man and Gambit easily tagged Quicksilver when he was doing the same thing.

Originally posted by carver9
Tien is super human. Don't understand what Tien have to do with this anyways. Due to kai, his body responds in a different manner as well. His eyes are faster, mind, everything has sped up for Tien. You apply real world logic to DBZ fighters is laughable when everything about them responds off kai.

https://youtu.be/6Nks-yThwUM

Here is Beerus FTL speed showing. It took Whis a minute to get to the dinosaur planet and we know Whis can achieve far FTL speeds while flying. Beerus gets there in a minute and some seconds. Remember, Whis tried to get back within 3 minutes. When Beerus shows up Whis tells him he had 40 sec left. you are the one who suggested that Saiyans are different than human's on a fundamental level...

I'll give that feat to you even though I could pick it apart but I'm not gonna lowball. The feat doesn't really help here as Beerus isn't on the team.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
you are the one who suggested that Saiyans are different than human's on a fundamental level...

I'll give that feat to you even though I could pick it apart but I'm not gonna lowball. The feat doesn't really help here as Beerus isn't on the team.

Saiyan can see at super speeds...something that proves their physiology is different than a human. Saiyans can grow a 100 ft tall when the moon is out. Something that a human can NOT do. Shoot boast from their hands. Survive with a hole in their chest. Becomes more powerful when near death. Walk around in increased gravity. Can train and become far more powerful. The list goes on. Their makeup is different than a human.

I'm curious. How can you pick that apart.? Remember, Whis and Beerus home is in another dimension.

They're pretty much bulletproof as kids...

Then we have this speed ft by someone who is weaker than Beerus. They are looking for Planet Namek and spot the Kai's looking at them. They get from the area where Namek is at to the Kai planet in a second. Lol...literally the best speed ft I have seen in comics/anime...

http://i.imgur.com/ha5vyrk.png

http://i.imgur.com/zKlqttv.png

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
They're pretty much bulletproof as kids...

Z fighters get slaughtered

The DBZ team gets rekt Marvel teams stomp.

Goku solos. Hell, looking at the recent shows, any of the Z fighters could probably solo.

Originally posted by carver9
I know for a fact Goku would see this lady in slow motion.


http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/6/63189/1305200-silversurferv308022.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/6/63189/1305201-silversurferv308103.jpg

And Bills would treat her like she is a fly. He would probably stand in one spot and let her pound on him without suffering a scratch.

I sometimes questions you're stupidity.

next time someone makes a thread involving the Hulk, am gonna lowball the shit out of it. It means ill be doing my best to use Hulk's lowest of the lows of feats.

Originally posted by SquallX
I sometimes questions you're stupidity.

next time someone makes a thread involving the Hulk, am gonna lowball the shit out of it. It means ill be doing my best to use Hulk's lowest of the lows of feats.

Don't get how that's a low showing but ok. Anyways, Goku stomps.

Silver Surfer speed through a dying galaxy
MFTL.....

Silver Surfer was actually holding his own against the runner
Hypersonic level reaction

Nah Goku and the others Get ROLF stomped just one single of a "Certain" someone's axe and its GG for goku.

SSG stomps them all.

Nah SS would slap him silly.

SSG Stomps, SS cant even hit him.

And Goku cant see or touch SS lol Goku isn't on level with a herald.

No he's above, he is a universe buster now.