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The archenemies join forces in order to complete this gauntlet.

They get full power and health restored after each battle.

* RotS Kenobi
* SoD Maul

Setting: Geonosis arena

No amp/prep time.


Warm-up: DoE Bane

1. Dooku
2. FE Malgus
3. RotJ Vader
4. Krayt Reborn
5. Exar Kun
6. SoR Revan
7. Plagueis
8. Caedus

Falls at 4 - who is a superior boss than 5 and 7.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Falls at 4 - who is a superior boss than 5 and 7.

Not really seeing it barring talking about his hax

Sure, he got stronger, but his increase in power is unquantifiable with no reliable measuring stick to really gauge him against

... What?

He's superior to Kun, not sure about Plagueis though.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
... What?

I know you're not this stupid kiddo, so let me say it again so you might not just play dumb :hmm

You're talking about dark transfer + shatterpoints, right?

Because good luck coming up with an actual way to quantify his power growth after his rebirth in any meaningful manner sans fanboy speculation :maybe

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
You're talking about dark transfer + shatterpoints, right?
No.

Apocalypse is likely his prime anyway.

And what about YYH power scaling?

Originally posted by Trocity
Apocalypse is likely his prime anyway.

Yeah, like we've discussed before, I don't exactly take Apocalypse at face value enough to really call it more than a collection of PIS

I can understand why you'd call it his prime in general, I'm just not sold on the showing being valid period

Originally posted by Trocity
But what about YYH power scaling?

Yomi and co are unquantifiably above Sensui and Chapter Black Yusuke

That's really all you can say

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Falls at 4 - who is a superior boss than 5 and 7.

And 6.

Falls at 1

Only ones they'd be able to defeat are Dooku and Vader imo.

Honestly stops at one. Dooku just separates Kenobi from Maul like he did in RoTS and takes on Maul

They can lose 1, but it's unlikely.

Dooku's not Sidious.

Good observation.

Really Dooku can handle Anakin and obi wan at once so I don't see why he can't handle maul,and obi wan since their synergy won't be as good and maul isn't as good Anakin. So really he can just do what he did to kenobi as he did in ROTS. Then he can out duel maul or use the force.

I generally assume Prime Versions isn't Apocalypse, but that version is overrated as well.

And they're not falling at 1 - they at least make it down to Krayt.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Really Dooku can handle Anakin and obi wan at once so I don't see why he can't handle maul,and obi wan since their synergy won't be as good and maul isn't as good Anakin. So really he can just do what he did to kenobi as he did in ROTS. Then he can out duel maul or use the force.


That would be true if he could handle Anakin and Kenobi like that every time he fought them. But we've seen Anakin give Dooku hell 1 v 1 more than once.

And Maul's Tk "control" is probably superior to Anakin's. So that should prevent a repeat of ROTS.

Plus there's the fact that when Dooku did handle Kenobi with Tk, it left him slightly tired against Anakin. So something like that would greatly improve Maul's chances 1 v 1 against Dooku.

Like I said, Dooku's no Sidious. So he won't just be tossing them both around with ease like Sidious was to Maul/Opress.

Not sure what you're point is Power as Anakin isn't present...

However I agree with Sids, as long as Dooku has something hard to launch Kenobi against he should be able to KO him if given the opportunity. And considering Kenobi is not going to by as synced with Maul as he was Anakin, but instead will actually be adverse to working as a team, Dooku can play them off each other quite well and that will provide plenty of openings.

And without Anakin, Maul and Kenobi aren't going to be able to exhaust him with their attack, so Dooku should have enough energy to finish Maul.

P.S. It's never said that Force pushing Kenobi was taxing for Dooku, in fact the opposite, and that's when he was already weakened.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Not sure what you're point is Power as Anakin isn't present...




Because Sid's argument was that Dooku can handle Kenobi and Anakin at once, so why not Kenobi and Maul.

So I put the handling Kenobi and Anakin into a bit of context.


Originally posted by Beniboybling
And considering Kenobi is not going to by as synced with Maul as he was Anakin, but instead will actually be adverse to working as a team, Dooku can play them off each other quite well and that will provide plenty of openings.


Dunno. Opress and Ventress teamed up quite well against Dooku. Dooku was still winning that one, but this duo is far superior to the Ventress/Opress duo.


Originally posted by Beniboybling
And without Anakin, Maul and Kenobi aren't going to be able to exhaust him with their attack, so Dooku should have enough energy to finish Maul.

Even if Dooku's at 90%, a Dooku vs Maul can really go either way IMO.



Originally posted by Beniboybling
P.S. It's never said that Force pushing Kenobi was taxing for Dooku, in fact the opposite, and that's when he was already weakened.


You should check out the script, which has both Kenobi and Dooku getting tired in the 3 way (although Kenobi getting tired at that point is a bit silly, unless he was already a bit tired from the start of the fight).

If they get lucky, they might reach 6. They're most likely done at 4 though.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Because Sid's argument was that Dooku can handle Kenobi and Anakin at once, so why not Kenobi and Maul.

So I put the handling Kenobi and Anakin into a bit of context.Ah I see, that makes some sense.The only blow they landed was when Opress knocked them to the ground, aside from that Dooku pretty much humiliated them...

On the other hand Ventress vs Vos, he played them off each other then ragdolled them both, knocking Ventress near unconscious.That is very true, though Maul would have expended energy too.Well I was referring to the novel, but that was probably because of Anakin.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
The only blow they landed was when Opress knocked them to the ground, aside from that Dooku pretty much humiliated them...




According to the Official Site, he "barely" bested them:


http://www.starwars.com/databank/savage-opress-biography-gallery


^ Slide 8:

"Dooku's Sith mastery barely gave him the edge over his former apprentices."


He was of course far superior to either one (in Sabers and in the Force), but I think saying he was humiliating them both is taking it a bit far, since they fought for a while and he never actually took out either one of them, and the fight in fact ended with Dooku and Ventress combining their powers to attack Opress, then Dooku escaping.

Fair enough, I see your point.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
He was of course far superior to either one (in Sabers and in the Force), but I think saying he was humiliating them both is taking it a bit far, since they fought for a while and he never actually took out either one of them, and the fight in fact ended with Dooku and Ventress combining their powers to attack Opress, then Dooku escaping.

That fight isn't a best example in that scenario. You said that he was barely winning against inferior duo. Yeah, true. But it was very small room, they took Dooku by surprise.
His fight against similar/a bit superior combo (Anakin and Obi-Wan) in the last season of TCW and movie as well is far better example.
Fight on the open field is far better scenario for Dooku.

Originally posted by McP
That fight isn't a best example in that scenario. You said that he was barely winning against inferior duo. Yeah, true. But it was very small room, they took Dooku by surprise.


Oh I'm not ignoring the context, or pretending that was Dooku's best performance or anything. Just pointing out, that fight in that situation wasn't easy for him.


Originally posted by McP
His fight against similar/a bit superior combo (Anakin and Obi-Wan) in the last season of TCW and movie as well is far better example.
Fight on the open field is far better scenario for Dooku.


Yeah that was a pretty awesome performance.

But he's clearly had far more trouble with Anakin in the past. So i think we have to put all the evidence together and judge.

Which is why I say Dooku would certainly have a shot at taking them both. But I personally think a split or win for the Maul/Kenobi duo is more likely. Especially given Maul's beastly Tk, which he seems to have better control/mastery over than Skywalker.

I'm wondering which fight would be harder for them: against Dooku or against Vader

Vader is more powerful but Dooku was capable of taking out Kenobi while there was someone superior to Maul fighting next to him so Dooku might actually perform better. On the other hand, Vader could very well abuse TK and take out Kenobi like Dooku did since he is more powerful than Dooku so I guess it all depends on how you look at the fight that took place on the Invisible Hand.

Stops at 1. Dooku flings Kenobi into one of those pillars and then pins him beneath it with TK. Then he solidly defeats Maul.

They MIGHT pass 1. Maybe. After that... the chances of them winning get very, very, very low.

Vader would trash this team. If Dooku and Maul can choke Kenobi then Vader who is much more powerful than either of them will be able too easily. Then consider that Maul isn't all that much stronger in the Force than Kenobi and he should be up for a good thrashing as well.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
If Maul can choke Kenobi consider that Maul isn't all that much stronger in the Force than Kenobi

I don't see how they are getting past 1. KenobI has shown he isn't on dookus level and Dooku can take him out with the force if necessary and Dooku is more than capable of taking down maul with his blade or his force powers, and if KenobI does he won't get a force rage boost due to him hating keneobi and with that the teams synergy is off completely and they would never get along due you know maul killing Obi wans master, and Kenobi chopping maul in half and leaving him for dead on Naboo. So synergy isn't good what so ever.

I dunno I think putting all the evidence together: Dooku vs Opress & Ventress, Dooku vs Obi-Wan and Anakin, Dooku vs Anakin..

It seems to me putting all that together, that Dooku vs Maul and Obi-Wan could probably end up being a pretty even match up.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I dunno I think putting all the evidence together: Dooku vs Opress & Ventress, Dooku vs Obi-Wan and Anakin, Dooku vs Anakin..

It seems to me putting all that together, that Dooku vs Maul and Obi-Wan could probably end up being a pretty even match up.

The only reason Dooku struggled against Ventress and Opress was location. It was an environment where they could capitalize on Savage's raw power the most. In a locale where Dooku can retreat rather than match the strength head on like the Geonosis arena, I believe Dooku has a much better chance of eliminating Kenobi fairly swiftly.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
The only reason Dooku struggled against Ventress and Opress was location. It was an environment where they could capitalize on Savage's raw power the most. In a locale where Dooku can retreat rather than match the strength head on like the Geonosis arena, I believe Dooku has a much better chance of eliminating Kenobi fairly swiftly.


Could also be a factor on why he lost to DS Vos. Since Vos (like Ventress/Opress) found Dooku to challenge him, Dooku didn't exactly choose the environment as he wasn't even expecting the fight.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
VIf Dooku and Maul can choke Kenobi then Vader who is much more powerful than either of them will be able too easily.

It's quite possible, that Dooku was able to catch Kenobi off-guard only because he outmaneuvered him in lightsaber duel. Kenobi lost his balance and lowered his guard in the Force.
Against Maul he was caught about 3 times? Against Maul and Opress he had to split his attention between both of them. Next time he was in terrible condition, just after his ship was shot down. And in "The Sith Hunters" he lowered his guard and attacked Maul as fast as he could to protect other beaten Jedi.

With this kind of interpretation, it's possible that Vader would be forced to distract Kenobi before he could catch him off-guard. Would be hard since ROTS Kenobi is at least comperable (or superior) duelist. And Maul is there as well.

But if we assume that both, Dooku and Maul, could catch Kenobi with their TK, then I agree, that Vader would stomp Kenobi and then would beat Maul.

^ Yeah for all the "Maul ragdolls Kenobi" I keep hearing, we've never once seen Maul Force Tk choke/ragdoll Kenobi mid-duel in a fair 1 v 1.

Whilst Dooku on the other hand manages to lay Physical and TK attacks on Kenobi mid-duel whilst it's actually Dooku who is outnumbered.

^
Yep.

Dooku manages to lay physical attacks on Skywalker as well. I'm wondering why people still believing that "Makashi is weak against strong forms" and are completly ignoring that Dooku was able to overcame both, Anakin and Obi-Wan at once, in a saberlock (which throw them off balance and enabled him to lay kick on Skywalker and choke on Kenobi).

Originally posted by McP
^
Yep.

Dooku manages to lay physical attacks on Skywalker as well. I'm wondering why people still believing that "Makashi is weak against strong forms" and are completly ignoring that Dooku was able to overcame both, Anakin and Obi-Wan at once, in a saberlock (which throw them off balance and enabled him to lay kick on Skywalker and choke on Kenobi).


The Saberlock can be explained away by precise positioning of his blade on their blades. Makashi is very precise. But I doubt his one arm is actually stronger than both of Kenobi's and Anakin's combined lol.

That said I actually think Makashi is almost ideal at defending against Power blows, much like Soresu (but being very distinct from Soresu being a one handed style therefore having to give more ground but using less energy). We see that in Savage's training session where Dooku's easily side stepping and deflecting Opress's power blows to the side, tripping him up. We also see that when he's defending himself against Anakin and Obi-Wan's combined assault in TCW and in ROTS, and against Anakin's rage enhanced assault in TCW- Crisis on Naboo.

No idea where the rumour began that Dooku is the one who is weak to physical attacks. Considering when Anakin has landed that one kick on Dooku in Crisis on Naboo it was no where near as lethal as the kick Dooku landed on Anakin in ROTS.

Aside from that I don't remember Dooku getting hit (physically) very often, if at all.

I never said, that Dooku is physically stronger then Anakin or even Obi-Wan. But his Force mastery may enable him to generate such kinetic power, that would much their's combined. Anakin needs boost of rage to dominate Dooku. Confirmed in "Rise and Fall of DV". He was also using a lot of ager at the end of their fight on Naboo.

I think these guys are being pretty underrated.

7 imo.

Originally posted by McP
I never said, that Dooku is physically stronger then Anakin or even Obi-Wan. But his Force mastery may enable him to generate such kinetic power, that would much their's combined. Anakin needs boost of rage to dominate Dooku. Confirmed in "Rise and Fall of DV". He was also using a lot of ager at the end of their fight on Naboo.


True but Anger comes pretty naturally to Anakin. Like it does to Opress tbh.

Dooku has displayed amazing bursts of Force enhanced strength like his kick on Skywalker in ROTS. But that's not really an option to use throughout the duel (I mean to that extent). So it's mainly down to his superior combat skill that helps him to engage both Kenobi and Skywalker together IMO.


Originally posted by carthage
I think these guys are being pretty underrated.



To be honest they would be a Lethal team. Given that they're both probably a level above Ventress and Opress.