How powerful is Darth Bane? [Discussion]

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



DarthAnt66
DISCLAIMER: Trolling or banter will NOT be tolerated in this thread.

There has been a lot of reporting / moderator issues going on lately with members, reporting people for expressing their personal opinions on Bane. This thread will, as a community, gather a respectable and reasonable approach for Bane that avoids bias or trolling. The idea is that, in the future, if a topic is reported for someone believing Bane dies, which happens quite a lot, we can simply link the moderators to this thread to understand that the majority of people do indeed place Darth Bane there, and that the minority is reporting people out of their own incredible bias. I posted some questions below to help start the discussion:

1.) Is Darth Bane the weakest member of the Rule of Two, which is the entire point of well... the Rule of Two?
2.) Does nexus' have a major impact on feats, and should they be used as an indication of power in Bane debates?
3.) Is Darth Bane, well, a powerful and skilled opponent, or was that what he wanted as the end product of the Rule of Two?

Also, just wanted to post some matchups to see where we all stand:

a.) Darth Bane vs Uthar Wynn
b.) Darth Bane vs Asajj Ventress
c.) Darth Bane vs Darth Maul
d.) Darth Bane vs Darth Vader
a). Darth Bane vs rots!Palpatine

Nephthys
laughing

DarthAnt66
Please do not troll my thread. We want respectable opinions here, not worthless banter.

This is your only warning.

Nephthys
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
laughing laughing laughing I see I pushed more than a few buttons there. umad, Ant? laughing laughing laughing

DarthAnt66
Reported for harassment and trolling.

Nephthys
Reported for make a troll thread to harass me. That you made it mere minutes after an exchange with me is hysterically transparent.

DarthAnt66
Harass you? Where? And lol, we get into exchanges every hour. erm

Is every other thread I made on KMC an attack on you too?

The fact we can't simply discuss Bane without you flipping your shit is the reason this thread was made.

You are only further proving why we need a community effort like this.

Please do get the moderators involved. They admitted they don't really know much about EU characters, and this thread, as a community, will help them figure out where Bane should normally be placed to pick apart trolling from a respectable opinion.

Aurbere
I agree with Ant here. Personally, I'm having trouble placing Bane, so seeing the thoughts of others and where they place him is a good idea.

Neph, try to calm down, please.

Nephthys
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Harass you? Where? And lol, we get into exchanges every hour. erm

Is every other thread I made on KMC an attack on you too?

The fact we can't simply discuss Bane without you flipping your shit is the reason this thread was made.

You are only further proving why we need a community effort like this.

Please do get the moderators involved. They admitted they don't really know much about EU characters, and this thread, as a community, will help them figure out where Bane should normally be placed to pick apart trolling from a respectable opinion.

Right. Maybe you should edit the OP again to make even less specific mentions of me, just to make it more clear how this thread totally isn't about harassing me.

This thread is nothing but an attempt on your part to get mod support behind your trolling and enforce a ruling on the character. It seems you're determined to prove Dmb wrong about how childish you really are.

DarthAnt66
I don't recall any mentions of you, unless they are rather broad of purely speculative in nature.

This thread has already established we will not tolerate trolling.

It would be impossible for the moderators to support whatever this "trolling" nonsense you're babbling about unless the majority literally supports it.

Or, perhaps, what you define as "trolling" is, in reality, how people see Bane. Or maybe not, and they are trolling - let's find out together.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Aurbere
I agree with Ant here. Personally, I'm having trouble placing Bane, so seeing the thoughts of others and where they place him is a good idea.
Someone understands. thumb up

Aurbere
I'm going to make a post regarding the actual content of the thread now.

Aurbere
I don't really understand what is going on between you two (Neph and Ant), but it's kind of derailing a thread that can be very helpful. I for one believe that a community should have some understanding of a character if they prove controversial. So, with that in mind, I'll make my own contribution.

1.) Is Darth Bane the weakest member of the Rule of Two, which is the entire point of well... the Rule of Two?

I've always believed that this should be the case. He should logically be the weakest of the Rule of Two, since the point was to create a line to create a Sith strong enough to take down the Republic. And there are quotes saying this.

2.) Does nexus' have a major impact on feats, and should they be used as an indication of power in Bane debates?

They should, obviously, have an impact on his feats. They give him more power to draw on. I don't think they should be used as indications of his power.

3.) Is Darth Bane, well, a powerful and skilled opponent, or was that what he wanted as the end product of the Rule of Two?

He is obviously powerful and skilled, but not in the same league as the end of his line.

a.) Darth Bane vs Uthar Wynn

Win.

b.) Darth Bane vs Asajj Ventress

Win, perhaps.

c.) Darth Bane vs Darth Maul

Loses.

d.) Darth Bane vs Darth Vader

Loses.

a). Darth Bane vs rots!Palpatine

Loses pretty badly.

My thoughts. Maybe now the thread can go in the proper direction.

Nephthys
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I don't recall any mentions of you, unless they are rather broad of purely speculative in nature.

Omg you actually did it and now you're lying about it. Wow.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Nephthys
Omg you actually did it and now you're lying about it. Wow.
My last edit was 10:52 PM - your post telling me to do so was 10:53 PM.

Unless you didn't notice I mainly added the big bold "DISCLAIMER" thing.

Besides, if I did have your name, it's not there anymore, so no harm done. thumb up

Now please, leave the thread or say something useful to the discussion at hand.
---
@Aurbere: All interesting thoughts. I'll get back to you soon.

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by Aurbere
2.) Does nexus' have a major impact on feats, and should they be used as an indication of power in Bane debates?

They should, obviously, have an impact on his feats. They give him more power to draw on. I don't think they should be used as indications of his power.


Honestly feel the benefits of a nexus are over hyped tbh

They're are some fairly notable showings by Jedi on fairly potent dark side nexus that, were nexuses to give exponential/multiplicative growth in power to Dark Siders... would make the Light Siders performing these fairly solid feats ****ing monsters considering the nexuses should probably drop them by the same root/divisor as the exponent/muliplier (why would the opposite side of the force suffer weaker effects, right?)

Thon on Ambria and Bastila's nigh indistinguishable showings in Battle Meditation on the Star Forge pre and post redemption come to mind

Granted, put less than 5 minutes of thought into this the other day, but eh.

Just something to spark discussion because bored.

Aurbere
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
@Aurbere: All interesting thoughts. I'll get back to you soon.

Take your time. I am very curious what your thoughts and the thoughts of others will be. I've been thinking of using Bane for a vs somewhere, so I'd like to know where people really place him.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Aurbere
I agree with Ant here. Personally, I'm having trouble placing Bane, so seeing the thoughts of others and where they place him is a good idea.

Neph, try to calm down, please.

That's the point of the versus forum.

Aurbere
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Honestly feel the benefits of a nexus are over hyped tbh

They're are some fairly notable showings by Jedi on fairly potent dark side nexus that, were nexuses to give exponential/multiplicative growth in power to Dark Siders... would make the Light Siders performing these fairly solid feats ****ing monsters considering the nexuses should probably drop them by the same root/divisor as the exponent/muliplier (why would the opposite side of the force suffer weaker effects, right?)

Thon on Ambria and Bastila's nigh indistinguishable showings in Battle Meditation on the Star Forge pre and post redemption come to mind

Granted, put less than 5 minutes of thought into this the other day, but eh.

Just something to spark discussion because bored.

Fair enough. But I never really stated how much the nexus affects an individual, merely that they shouldn't be indications of power under certain circumstances. I mean, we wouldn't say Vjun Dooku is the same as the Dooku who appears in ROTS, right?

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Thon on Ambria and Bastila's nigh indistinguishable showings in Battle Meditation on the Star Forge pre and post redemption come to mindd.
For Bastila at least, I was always under the impression that somehow Battle Meditation cancels out the effects of a nexus due to BM's empowering nature.

Like, Exar Kun is simply unable to draw on the light side due to the nexus' of Korriban and Yavin IV - both which don't even compare to the Star Forge.

For Thon, interesting thinking. However, the feat is regarded as legendary for a reason, tbh. I also bet it took a lot of effort, energies, strain, etc to do it.

Selenial
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Bastila's nigh indistinguishable showings in Battle Meditation on the Star Forge pre and post redemption come to mind

If you want to make Ant drop the argument, that's not the right example to use.

Just mention Meetra on Malachor V and watch him backtrack about how powerful Nexus' are.

DarthAnt66
Feel free to use that example too, please. thumb up

Fated Xtasy
Not sure if I should comment, or just wait for this to be closed mmm

Nephthys
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
My last edit was 10:52 PM - your post telling me to do so was 10:53 PM.

Unless you didn't notice I mainly added the big bold "DISCLAIMER" thing.

Besides, if I did have your name, it's not there anymore, so no harm done. thumb up

Now please, leave the thread or say something useful to the discussion at hand.

Merely meaning that you preempted the idea and further edited so you could claim innocence. First you deleted one mention of my name and changed the other from "Nephthys" to "the Nephthys brigade" and then you deleted all mentions. I'm sure other people saw it, I don't know why you're bothering to lie about it.

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by Aurbere
Fair enough. But I never really stated how much the nexus affects an individual, merely that they shouldn't be indications of power under certain circumstances. I mean, we wouldn't say Vjun Dooku is the same as the Dooku who appears in ROTS, right?

No, but divide an attack that can level a city block by 2 and you still generally have a city block level attack

At worst it just takes out a substantially large building

Associating yourself with a joules energy magnitude scale will do wonders to show you how little this kind of multiplier effects shit

I generally wouldn't conclude most potent nexus offer much more than an additive to minor multiplier in terms of energy just judging what they fail to do to light siders.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
For Bastila at least, I was always under the impression that somehow Battle Meditation cancels out the effects of a nexus due to BM's empowering nature.

Not like she's using battlemind to psych herself up first of all

Secondly, wouldn't know why you'd think at all

Where's this come from? :hmm



Narrative didn't really feel like that's what happened to me

More like that calling on the dark side the first time at all made Kun's efforts to use the light there after nigh impossible

May have been retconned later, but **** if I know

Fact is, at the very minimum, you've got nexuses acting ****ing inconsistent, with the majority of showings more going the way of Thon than Kun.



Its not legendary when a potent psychometric can view the feat with clarity and we're given a description of what happened via multiple sources

Unless you mean legendary in the sense of amazing raw power

The effort is meaningless compared to the fact an exponential increase on a nexus like Ambria would mean Thon was diminished from a square of a ****ing solar flare in terms of energy (the nexus was formed from a ritual more powerful than any known release of dark side energy to the jedi at the time, ergo Sadow's flares).

A signficant divisor would still give ridiculously high figures for his normal sitting power

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't know why you're bothering to lie about it.

Nothing I said has been a lie.

@Chaos: I'll get back to you soon. Responding to the Kun vs Revan debate atm.

red8
I'll bite.



It's possible, but not guaranteed. The Order of the Sith Lords suffered setbacks and the grand plan didn't go exactly as expected. Even if Bane is the weakest, he is still part of an elite order that boasts some of the most powerful Dark Lords in the mythos.



This is the crux of the debate around Bane. Certain users on this board will go to the extreme and call Bane fodder material because he does not have many non-nexus feats. Other users will make inferences on roughly how powerful he should be. Drew intended for Bane, Revan, and Vader to all be on the same tier. I'll skip this one for now.



Both. Darth Bane was an absolute prodigy of the Force. He became the most powerful Sith Lord in the galaxy with just a few years of training. Some people argue the Sith of this era were weaker than other eras, but even if this is true, surpassing all the other Sith this fast is still very impressive.




I think Bane loses at E, but could lose at D.

Fated Xtasy
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Nothing I said has been a lie.


http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11112/111125557/3727979-4722629775-10_fu.gif

nearly choked on the cherry on my froyo from that.

DarthAnt66
Direct me to my "lie", please.

Also, stop derailing the thread, please.

Fated Xtasy
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Direct me to my "lie", please.

I meant that as a general statement tbh not this thread.



revenge for messing with my depa thread punk.

Jk.

Edit: I'd comment, but at the moment i have an RT to do so yeh.

Nephthys
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Direct me to my "lie", please.

Also, stop derailing the thread, please.

"I don't recall any mentions of you, unless they are rather broad of purely speculative in nature."

You wrote my full name twice. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Selenial
I think Aurbere should decide whether Fated or Ant are right mmm

He holds no bias here thumb up

DarthAnt66
@Nephthys: Do you remember perhaps the adjectives I put in front of those names, if I did indeed *write* them?

Selenial
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Do you remember perhaps the adjectives I put in front of those names, if I did indeed right them?

*write.

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by DarthAnt66

@Chaos: I'll get back to you soon. Responding to the Kun vs Revan debate atm.

No rush

And further examples I have are Arca Jeth vs Freedon Nadd's power on the Nexus created by Nadd's considerable power

Ulic vs Freedon Nadd empowered Ommin tanking his bolts of "infinite hatred" on Onderon's nexus

Nomi Sunrider, in that big ass citadel that was a dark side nexus potent enough to **** with her senses, could survive an enraged and irrational and obviously amped by the nexus Qel-Droma's Force Lightning from his amulet

Once more, an exponential increase should have led to far more deaths on the latter 2's part

Significant multipliers would indicate signficant advantage to the light siders on neutral ground (something especially bullshit in the Nomi scenario)

I'm sure I can dredge up plenty more if I can bother if need be too :hmm

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by Aurbere
I don't really understand what is going on between you two (Neph and Ant), but it's kind of derailing a thread that can be very helpful. I for one believe that a community should have some understanding of a character if they prove controversial. So, with that in mind, I'll make my own contribution.

1.) Is Darth Bane the weakest member of the Rule of Two, which is the entire point of well... the Rule of Two?

I've always believed that this should be the case. He should logically be the weakest of the Rule of Two, since the point was to create a line to create a Sith strong enough to take down the Republic. And there are quotes saying this.

2.) Does nexus' have a major impact on feats, and should they be used as an indication of power in Bane debates?

They should, obviously, have an impact on his feats. They give him more power to draw on. I don't think they should be used as indications of his power.

3.) Is Darth Bane, well, a powerful and skilled opponent, or was that what he wanted as the end product of the Rule of Two?

He is obviously powerful and skilled, but not in the same league as the end of his line.

a.) Darth Bane vs Uthar Wynn

Win.

b.) Darth Bane vs Asajj Ventress

Win, perhaps.

c.) Darth Bane vs Darth Maul

Loses.

d.) Darth Bane vs Darth Vader

Loses.

a). Darth Bane vs rots!Palpatine

Loses pretty badly.

My thoughts. Maybe now the thread can go in the proper direction.
Sounds about right. It's not to say that any besides Bane vs. Palpatine would be terrible fights within themselves, but Bane would undoubtedly lose more often than not. Otherwise, it would defeat the purpose of the RoT to begin with.It's all about concentrating more and more of the Dark Side in one single individual, the ultimate Sith, and that one individual, despite the name Sith'ari, was not Bane.

DarthAnt66
Chaos, do you mind if I get back to you tomorrow? I have the thread bookmarked atm so I won't forget.

And ah, Sinious, if you are reading this, I'll respond to our little Revan vs Vitiate debate tomorrow as well.

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Chaos, do you mind if I get back to you tomorrow? I have the thread bookmarked atm so I won't forget.

And ah, Sinious, if you are reading this, I'll respond to our little Revan vs Vitiate debate tomorrow as well.

I'll quote you what I said to SunRazer/ShootingNova yesterday

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
No rush

You're on an internet forum discussing one of the most subjective forms of debate that can pretend to be objective

This is essentially just for shits and giggles, no one's rushing you dude :maybe

Sinious
Originally posted by DarthAnt66

And ah, Sinious, if you are reading this, I'll respond to our little Revan vs Vitiate debate tomorrow as well.

Hmm? Link me.

DarthAnt66
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=615590&pagenumber=2#post15321848

Ushgarak
Regardless of any other issue, this is clearly a versus thread in nature, and its whole justification in the OP is suspect. Closed.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.