Ben Grimm Vs Black Panther

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riv6672
No prep, no BFR, no outside help or resources, standard gear only.
Midtown Manhattan, 10 foot start distance.

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w344/riv6672/image_zps7dstdeny.jpg

wuleecat
I don't know who WILL win, but Ben SHOULD win for the brilliance of "T'Charlie".

riv6672
Haha!
Thanks man, that genuinely had me lol...smile

StiltmanFTW
Panther won't ever admit it, but even he was smiling under the mask then big grin

ShadowFyre
Ben should clobber him but not on this site.

Khazra Reborn
T'Charlie is probably too fast, I don't know if his standard gear can hurt Ben though.

P.S everybody better refer to BP as "T'Charlie" now, or I will be genuinely angry.

Shabazz916
whats bp standard gear.. some ppl tend to change it

Henry_Pym
T'Charlie gets punted eventually

Juk3n
Combat ready TP and whatever sword or blades or daggers he has as standard gear are undoubtedly capable of doing Thing damage. His armor is prolly capable of taking things casual strikes and even as im typing this im finding myself bored of BP. Bored of what they've done to him all this tech, all these buffs, they same way my favourite guy Cap Rogers, would become boring if they gave him the ironfist amp a spider-sense and midnighters battle computer.

Black Panther wins. Because stuff and he finds a way. :/

wuleecat
Originally posted by Juk3n
Combat ready TP and whatever sword or blades or daggers he has as standard gear are undoubtedly capable of doing Thing damage. His armor is prolly capable of taking things casual strikes and even as im typing this im finding myself bored of BP. Bored of what they've done to him all this tech, all these buffs, they same way my favourite guy Cap Rogers, would become boring if they gave him the ironfist amp a spider-sense and midnighters battle computer.

Black Panther wins. Because stuff and he finds a way. :/

This.

T'Charlie is a good character but all the herbs and the armour and the daggers and - good god - the teleportation, when's it going to end? I fully expect him to have Xavier-class TP and see 'T'Charlie, Master of the Mystic Arts' by the end of the year.

I'd like Ben to hammer him into the ground like a tent peg, but T'Charlie probably takes it the way things are being written .

riv6672
Damned, didnt see those reactions coming. confused

Kazenji
Originally posted by riv6672
Damned, didnt see those reactions coming. confused

Why would you be surprised

when BP defeated Black Dwarf, one of Thanos' generals in the Black Order.

riv6672
I'm surprised to see anyone being negative towards BP. This is a very pro Panther site.

Juk3n
Originally posted by riv6672
I'm surprised to see anyone being negative towards BP. This is a very pro Panther site.

He's capable, he has resources, intelligence and a unique heritage. The less abilities a hero has the more 'danger' or 'peril' you can put him in, and the more he can grow as a character as he learns to overcome those dangers with nothing but his mind and his capabilities. Giving a grounded , gritty hero (that he used to be) full blown, herald killing super powers is the correct way to ruin him. IMO. Imagine DC legitimately having a cosmic ray hit Batman and giving him city level telekinesis. Imagine how useless his foes would become, imagine how much you lose from the world of Gotham and the established hierarchy. Luckily BP's not so much of a major that his powerset upsets the balance of the marvel-earth universe. Its still a bad move as far as making me feel anything for the character, the way I did when he defeated the Skrull who was IF, Elektra and a couple other masters. That BP I could read all day.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Kazenji
Why would you be surprised

when BP defeated Black Dwarf, one of Thanos' generals in the Black Order.

The circumstances of that fight make it hard to judge and apply lessons to other fights.

For example, he MAY (I have no proof) used Wakandan mystic spells to help him.

Therefore, we could say he'd have a good fight against Strange.

He may have dug out a Panther robot exo suit, capable of harming class 100s, and used that.

Therefore, we could say he'd have a good fight against IM.

We do know he got lucky, injured his arm, and the fight happened off-panel.

We also know Dwarf was taking it to a group that included Gladiator, Annihlus, Ronan, Super-Skrull etc, and until Ronan split his melon head open, BD was actually giving a fairly even fight.

So would we say BP has a chance in a fight against Gladiator? Based on his performance against BD? No, we can't, because we don't know how he won.

golem370
Plus Thing has no neck for a choke hold so that's out

Tony Stark
Ben wins 10/10

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by golem370
Plus Thing has no neck for a choke hold so that's out
thumb up
laughing out loud

riv6672
Originally posted by Juk3n
He's capable, he has resources, intelligence and a unique heritage. The less abilities a hero has the more 'danger' or 'peril' you can put him in, and the more he can grow as a character as he learns to overcome those dangers with nothing but his mind and his capabilities. Giving a grounded , gritty hero (that he used to be) full blown, herald killing super powers is the correct way to ruin him. IMO. Imagine DC legitimately having a cosmic ray hit Batman and giving him city level telekinesis. Imagine how useless his foes would become, imagine how much you lose from the world of Gotham and the established hierarchy. Luckily BP's not so much of a major that his powerset upsets the balance of the marvel-earth universe. Its still a bad move as far as making me feel anything for the character, the way I did when he defeated the Skrull who was IF, Elektra and a couple other masters. That BP I could read all day.
I've said the same thing about characters for years now, to mostly deaf ears...

Khazra Reborn
Smooth move T'Charlie...

eaebiakuya
Despite Black Dwarf fight, BP is capable of hurting Namor with bombs and his energy claw.

He also has teleport and invisibility. He wins this.

edit: he can hurt ben with ebony blade too...

Vanguard
Originally posted by Tony Stark
Ben wins 10/10

Oh please. He's already handled Ben pretty good before.

riv6672
Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Despite Black Dwarf fight, BP is capable of hurting Namor with bombs and his energy claw.

He also has teleport and invisibility. He wins this.

edit: he can hurt ben with ebony blade too...
Ben should totally know the ins and outs of dealing with invisible opponents.

Is the ebony blade standard gear now? And, shouldnt Black Knight have it?

Tony Stark
Originally posted by Vanguard
Oh please. He's already handled Ben pretty good before.


One hit, on one panel...? If you say so...

riv6672
Bummer.
No answers.

ShadowFyre
Cant comment on ebony blade part as I dont know but yeah, Im pretty sure Ben has more experience dealing with people going invisible than 90% of the heroes out there. If I was Ben, put my back to something solid and thunderclap.

riv6672
Completely agree. But...
That last bit sounded SO dirty... embarrasment

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by riv6672
Ben should totally know the ins and outs of dealing with invisible opponents.

Is the ebony blade standard gear now? And, shouldnt Black Knight have it?

Um, knowing the ins and outs doesn't mean it doesn't still put him at a HUGE disadvantage. Stop openly rooting against the genius/king/prep god/tech wizard/enhanced meta/martial arts master.

riv6672
I would ask you to stop holding a grudge over my comments towards you, but your posts are more fun to read this way. yes

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by riv6672
I would ask you to stop holding a grudge over my comments towards you, but your posts are more fun to read this way. yes

But, I thought I was a meanie?

Sorry, when you put for your opinion, I have a right to put forth mine. That's sorta how the board works. Him being "familiar" with invisibility won't hep him much. It might result in him knowing he doesn't stand a chance. He's way slower, dumber and has no way whatsoever to track and invisible T'Challa. Nice try, though.

carver9
Might as well move Black Panther up to the High Herald tier. Next thread, Hulk vs Black Panther.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by carver9
Might as well move Black Panther up to the High Herald tier. Next thread, Hulk vs Black Panther.

I think you mean Mid Herald tier.

Stop hating, Carver. You are acting butthurt because BP is getting shine and Hulk is know where. For you and everyone else making these smart ass remarks, BP beat the FF in his first appearance, so he doesn't have to move anywhere on the tier chart. He is what he always was, unlike 80% of characters who receive upgrade after upgrade. I repeat for the dense, BP beat the FF in his first appearance, that's one against 4. He doesn't have to be a herald to defeat them individually. Thanks. smokin'

carver9
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
I think you mean Mid Herald tier.

Stop hating, Carver. You are acting butthurt because BP is getting shine and Hulk is know where. For you and everyone else making these smart ass remarks, BP beat the FF in his first appearance, so he doesn't have to move anywhere on the tier chart. He is what he always was, unlike 80% of characters who receive upgrade after upgrade. I repeat for the dense, BP beat the FF in his first appearance, that's one against 4. He doesn't have to be a herald to defeat them individually. Thanks. smokin'

Lol...I'm not mad about Hulk getting love or not. I don't care about that. I like BP but I think he is being highly overrated, and he is (by the way, Hulk is high Herald).

DarkSaint85
Why is he overrated, when on panel he has already beaten them?

Just because you beat the FF in single combat does not make you a herald, lol.

Sure, they've increased in power levels....but so has he, AND in power set, too.

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Why is he overrated, when on panel he has already beaten them?

Just because you beat the FF in single combat does not make you a herald, lol.

Sure, they've increased in power levels....but so has he, AND in power set, too.

The power difference and tactical use of abilities.

DarkSaint85
Well, he's been taking it to Namor - even tanked an enraged P5 Namor blast.

Took out Dwarf, off panel, sure, but still took him. And Dwarf was handling that super team of heralds.

And I'm sure some members of this forum, who may even be posting in this very thread (IOW, carver) are of the opinion that Skrull copies are just as powerful as the originals.

Guess how Panther deals with Thor, Loki and BRB?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/59221/1740506-1738727_black_panther_40_0023_super.jpg

Assuming Skrulls are = the originals.

carver9
They are not equal to the original. Braddock took on a gang of Skrulls and some of them had Hyperion, Wonderman, and Ms. Marvel powers as a combination. That's a good showing for him though. I just dont consider him as powerful as most here thinks.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
They are not equal to the original. Braddock took on a gang of Skrulls and some of them had Hyperion, Wonderman, and Ms. Marvel powers as a combination. That's a good showing for him though. I just dont consider him as powerful as most here thinks.

I'll remember that next time SkrullBolt is brought up.....

No one here is saying he's a herald buster, lol. You don't have to be that powerful to take out the FF in single combat - some streets and metas on the forum list could take them out.

Beating the FF, when they're not exactly the fiercest of fighters, is hardly an achievement.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by carver9
Lol...I'm not mad about Hulk getting love or not. I don't care about that. I like BP but I think he is being highly overrated, and he is (by the way, Hulk is high Herald).

But no one has applied a rating to Black Panther nor is that what the thread is about, so what's the real reason? And how do you discern the FACT that he defeated them in his first appearance in 1966?

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I'll remember that next time SkrullBolt is brought up.....

No one here is saying he's a herald buster, lol. You don't have to be that powerful to take out the FF in single combat - some streets and metas on the forum list could take them out.

Beating the FF, when they're not exactly the fiercest of fighters, is hardly an achievement.

Skrullbolt blew a chunk out of the moon the size of a state and ripped through space/time with his voice. He then took on the entirety of the Avengers and was winning. Yes, I will use him.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
Skrullbolt blew a chunk out of the moon the size of a state and ripped through space/time with his voice. He then took on the entirety of the Avengers and was winning. Yes, I will use him.

thumb up

As for these various fights involving BP, again, you don't have to be herald level to beat the FF in single combat.

carver9
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
But no one has applied a rating to Black Panther nor is that what the thread is about, so what's the real reason? And how do you discern the FACT that he defeated them in his first appearance in 1966?

He defeated them in the classic days when Sue (along with her teammates) wasn't close to where they are now. Back then Sue use to pass out when people like Gladiator or Hulk punched her shield with high force. Now her force field can withstand hit from World War Hulk, Celestials, and Galactus himself. Do you not see the power difference here? An argument can be made for beating Ben (even though I disagree with this as well) but the others? No!!!!

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by carver9
He defeated them in the classic days when Sue (along with her teammates) wasn't close to where they are now. Back then Sue use to pass out when people like Gladiator or Hulk punched her shield with high force. Now her force field can withstand hit from World War Hulk, Celestials, and Galactus himself. Do you not see the power difference here? An argument can be made for beating Ben (even though I disagree with this as well) but the other? No!!!!

What the **** does that have to with anything? Was someone questioning the strength of the shields?

carver9
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
What the **** does that have to with anything? Was someone questioning the strength of the shields?

I'm explaining to you that they have grown in power. Not just the shields either. Let's throw versatility in there as well.

DarkSaint85
BP's daggers are bit different from blunt force impacts, though.

Not to mention, adamantium has stood up to those people as well. Guess how they fared against T'Challa?

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by carver9
I'm explaining to you that they have grown in power. Not just the shields either. Let's throw versatility in there as well.

Panther has grown as well, he didn't have half the tech mentioned earlier when he beat them and that's cannon. Has Sue gotten faster? More durable? Able to see invisibility herself? More willing to kill her friend? If the answer is no, then none of this applies. Again, like I said to another poster yesterday, you all act like someone said BP would win by ripping the shields apart. No, sir, all the other conditions apply.

I have no problem with you saying she would win, if you actually make the argument. Saying her shields are stronger than before means absolutely nothing.

riv6672
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
But, I thought I was a meanie?

Sorry, when you put for your opinion, I have a right to put forth mine. That's sorta how the board works. Him being "familiar" with invisibility won't hep him much. It might result in him knowing he doesn't stand a chance. He's way slower, dumber and has no way whatsoever to track and invisible T'Challa. Nice try, though.
I can tell by the above response to Carver you're just in these BP/FF threads because you're upset that i called you rude and mediocre. You arent really debating, just blowing off everyone's points, in order to be...rude and mediocre.
Thank you for proving me right.

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