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Setting: Alderaan mountains

No amp/prep time.

Both at their peak.

Who wins?

All-out?

Dooku

Dooku all three in a decent fight

Originally posted by The_Tempest
All-out?
Yeah.

I'd question Dooku taking Force but he's inevitably going to be the favourite there. I'd favour him in all out/sabers though.

Originally posted by ILS
I'd question Dooku taking Force but he's inevitably going to be the favourite there. I'd favour him in all out/sabers though.

I'd probably agree with this, especially considering that Ulic was stated as being far above Aleema and Satal Keto in power.

It's more that the likes of Tott Doneeta and Odan-Urr are already pretty powerful and Ulic was being thought of as at least around their level if not superior as a Jedi; as a Sith he grew in power substantially and was considered the only person who could actually challenge Exar in a meaningful way.

Originally posted by ILS
It's more that the likes of Tott Doneeta and Odan-Urr are already pretty powerful and Ulic was being thought of as at least around their level if not superior as a Jedi; as a Sith he grew in power substantially and was considered the only person who could actually challenge Exar in a meaningful way.

You forgot Thon

And here's the 3rd person omniscient narrative accolade that suggests he's roughly their peer already

But Ulic Qel-Droma isn't just anyone; he's a Jedi, perhaps the greatest of his time

Ah yeah, how could I forgot Thon.

Yeah Ulic's kind of an unexplored monster in regards to the Force.

Worth noting he was probably still a novice Jedi at the time of his ascension to being Dark Lord of the Sith :hmm

Per issue 2 of the arc's little back cover summary thing

Don't recall too much going on between Arca's death and his fight with Kun anyway

That said?

I'm incredulous of Dooku having advantage in the force

Sure, his best feat of having Yoda exert some modicum of effort to deflect his Lightning is nice, but wouldn't be what I call being comparable to standing alongside ****er's like Thon :hmm

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Worth noting he was probably still a novice Jedi at the time of his ascension to being Dark Lord of the Sith :hmm

Per issue 2 of the arc's little back cover summary thing


I thought someone once said that the back cover summary isn't canon and that it's neither the author or editor who adds that but rather the marketing department?

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
I thought someone once said that the back cover summary isn't canon and that it's neither the author or editor who adds that but rather the marketing department?

Well, being fair, I don't know if its a back cover thing only having the omnibus

Was probably more of an inside the book page summary that lists the title

Kind of like these

http://i.imgur.com/fgsPp9p.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/gnLl9eL.jpg

Someone with the non-omnibus version can verify it I guess

Originally posted by carthage
Dooku all three in a decent fight

Being second only to he who may very well be galactic history's greatest swordsman (Insider #62) in the prime of the Jedi, with 7 decades or so to refine his skill, is enough to give the Count the nod here. Besides which, he has the feats and accolades to give him the advantage in the Force.

If Ulic actually uses his amulet, that may be the greatest difference maker.

I don't recall many instances of Ulic using offensive force powers other than blasting back those multiple Jedi. I really need to re-read Tales of the Jedi, but his amulet seemed more for augmentation/defensive powers. His defensive abilities should be able to repel anything if not most of all Dooku's force powers, but he's going to lose a duel for a majority

We know that he can use the amulet for lightning/concussive blasts and so on, it's just a case of whether or not you want to believe he would based on what we've seen of him. If Dooku started using the Force against Ulic I think it's safe to say he'd respond in kind. Not seeing that ending well for Dooku given that Ulic is a rival of Exar's in terms of power and above a lot of other TotJ powerhouses.

Originally posted by ILS
We know that he can use the amulet for lightning/concussive blasts and so on, it's just a case of whether or not you want to believe he would based on what we've seen of him. If Dooku started using the Force against Ulic I think it's safe to say he'd respond in kind. Not seeing that ending well for Dooku given that Ulic is a rival of Exar's in terms of power and above a lot of other TotJ powerhouses.

So? Dooku has been able to defeat Mace Windu before his peak and fight on par with Yoda.

And likewise Windu would have taken wins in sparring against Dooku, logically. Dooku isn't Yoda's peer, he's his lesser. But I'm not denying he's a better duelist than Ulic, simply questioning the power gap.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
So? Dooku has been able to defeat Mace Windu before his peak and fight on par with Yoda.

Wouldn't call Yoda having to exert some unknown and vague amount of effort with Dooku fighting on par with Yoda

Or do you mean purely dueling where gaps are generally smaller?

Stark; no, it's never been said that Mace has beaten Dooku, but I just find it to be fairly logical that he would have at points over the decades. They sparred extensively and most sources regard them as peers; the source you've presented isn't saying Dooku is better, just that he is one of two people who have ever beaten Mace in a duel at any point. I find it hard to believe Mace has never beaten Dooku in a spar.

Yoda didn't even attack Dooku directly with anything other than his own lightning, dude. Taking those sources at face value instead of just evaluating what happened - Dooku losing clearly - isn't going to get you an accurate result. If we go with your theory then Sidious, Yoda's near-equal, has no business casually choking Dooku from across star systems, but he has.

Originally posted by ILS
And likewise Windu would have taken wins in sparring against Dooku, logically. Dooku isn't Yoda's peer, he's his lesser. But I'm not denying he's a better duelist than Ulic, simply questioning the power gap.


Perhaps Cart is serious about a gaping difference between Kun and Dooku.

How big would you say the gap is between Ulic and Dooku? And how effective do you think the amulet blasts would be? I mean, Kun's best off nexus blast only rendered Aleema unconscious despite, by his own admission, going for the kill. Doesn't seem too much more powerful than Dooku's lightning, except Dooku wasn't going for the kill when he rendered Anakin and Bulq unconscious.

Not that I don't trust Cart, but his hatred for Dooku, especially after he ruined a happily ever after, may cloud his judgment.

Cart loves his romance.

Originally posted by ILS

Yoda didn't even attack Dooku directly with anything other than his own lightning, dude. Taking those sources at face value instead of just evaluating what happened - Dooku losing clearly - isn't going to get you an accurate result. If we go with your theory then Sidious, Yoda's near-equal, has no business casually choking Dooku from across star systems, but he has.

To add to this?

Yoda has no business containing several seconds of Sidious' Lightning if Dooku has any parity with Yoda

Or match the KE of Sidious' TK

Being able to contain any kind of burst at all or matching any throw from Sidious is so far above Dooku the notion Yoda and he are peers is pure comedy.

The circular bit of logic is kind of headache inducing tbh

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Not that I don't trust Cart, but his hatred for Dooku, especially after he ruined a happily ever after, may cloud his judgment.

Cart loves his romance.

........

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Perhaps Cart is serious about a gaping difference between Kun and Dooku.

How big would you say the gap is between Ulic and Dooku? And how effective do you think the amulet blasts would be? I mean, Kun's best off nexus blast only rendered Aleema unconscious despite, by his own admission, going for the kill. Doesn't seem too much more powerful than Dooku's lightning, except Dooku wasn't going for the kill when he rendered Anakin and Bulq unconscious. I don't really want to get into it if it's alright with you, the ancient Sith take a bit of explaining... as for Aleema, I don't remember a source ever saying that Kun was trying to kill her, and he certainly seemed nonchalant about the blast.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/4292464-force+blast+aleema.png

Otherwise, it's just a good feat for her.. I mean with a bit of scaling involved the level of power you can take away from Exar's feat of blasting apart the Sith Wyrm and the temple (accounting for both the nexus and that Kun was pretty far off of his prime), is astonishing, and more than Dooku's lightning can produce.

Yeah, Ulic and Kun obviously aren't peers in power.

By that route, two or so sources have stated Dooku rivals Yoda in Force powers, but we all know that's not true.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Yeah, Ulic and Kun obviously aren't peers in power.


Not particularly obvious when Qel-Droma's feats as a Jedi shit on Kun's

Kun just benefits from being called greater by Nadd

Is there a gap?

Sure

Is it unexplored in ways we can quantify?

Yep

Do both benefit from other Jedi showings as both Jedi and Sith via accolades

Another yes

I know Kun's more powerful, just trying to define the gap with any context we possess in TotJ is kind of difficult. Definitely is from my normal school of thought. Curious what yours comes up with.

I'm talking about them in their primes as Sith Lords. At that point, they're obviously not peers or near-equals. The fact that there's a gap at all just proves my point. I'm not saying the gap is huge or anything.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Not that I don't trust Cart, but his hatred for Dooku, especially after he ruined a happily ever after, may cloud his judgment.

Cart loves his romance.

I also never stated I hate Dooku, I just have him beneath Exar and (arguably) Malgus.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I'm talking about them in their primes as Sith Lords. At that point, they're obviously not peers or near-equals. The fact that there's a gap at all just proves my point. I'm not saying the gap is huge or anything.

Suppose how I use the term "peer" is a bit more loose than you do

Hence the original disconnect on my part

I'd generally consider a pair of ****ers with an unquantifiable gap in power peers on account of nothing presented evidence wise being able to suggest the fight wouldn't be one worth watching is all

Well, "peer" can be used to represent some people just close in ability, but in this case, I meant it as "rival".

Originally posted by carthage
I also never stated I hate Dooku, I just have him beneath Exar and (arguably) Malgus.


Oh my, Cart. Have I been gone that long? It was a joke at your occasional jabs at Dooku's lightning (lowballing it). I had also looked up the Dark Disciple thread to see the opinions of others regarding the book, which including a remark from you about the romance of the book. Why are you being so serious?


@ILS

That's fine. I wasn't looking for a debate (if that's what you're thinking), just something that may change my opinion, especially in regards to the blasts, as I don't see that as a solid game changer the way most people do, nor do I see it as more effective than Dooku's lightning when comparing their respective attacks on actual powerful force users. I guess I'll just research more on it whenever.

And oh, I was thinking Kun mentioned being there to kill them either before of upon arrival. I may be wrong.