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Cell charges up his most powerful attack and Beerus gets the chance to brace for said attack. Cell goal is to kill Beerus with one attack. Can it happen if Beerus is aware of this attack? Remember, the attack hits him.

Cell cuts Beerus in half with the Destructo Disc

You think that would work? Let's take away the destructo disk. Had a feeling someone would bring it up.

Canonly there is no reason it shouldn't work. If you include filler, maybe maybe not.

If not he maybe be able punch thru him with the Special Beam Canon

So you think Cell piercing attacks would work and not his more explosive attacks?

Spirit Bomb might work if powerful enough. Depending of course on if Beerus had a pure heart or not.

But I know what you are doing here. The answer is no, Cell's Solar System busting Kamehameha would not kill Beerus. Wouldn't even scratch him if he were prepared for it. But DBZ has WAY different stats regarding ki based attacks and physical attacks

Originally posted by juggerman
Spirit Bomb might work if powerful enough. Depending of course on if Beerus had a pure heart or not.

But I know what you are doing here. The answer is no, Cell's Solar System busting Kamehameha would not kill Beerus. Wouldn't even scratch him if he were prepared for it. But DBZ has WAY different stats regarding ki based attacks and physical attacks



Can Cell do a spirit bomb?

Also, conventional attacks doesn't seem to threaten Z fighters in any kind of way. Ki attacks are more powerful. Remember, Raditz said as a child, Goku should've been able to take over Earth and they were possessing Nukes and high caliber weapons during that time.

Let's also not forget Frieza dad words about a planets explosion. He didn't stress at all about it and basically called it petty. Ki attacks are greater than conventional attacks...this is well known...so disguising it as 'well, it's just a Ki attack' doesn't mean much when discussing it here because a casual blast from a Z fighter that wouldn't level a room>>>>any Nuke a human can muster in the DBZ verse.

Originally posted by carver9


Can Cell do a spirit bomb?

Cell claimed he could and we have no real reason to assume he was lying

Originally posted by carver9
Also, conventional attacks doesn't seem to threaten Z fighters in any kind of way. Ki attacks are more powerful. Remember, Raditz said as a child, Goku should've been able to take over Earth and they were possessing Nukes and high caliber weapons during that time.

Not true at all. Goku defeated Piccolo with a flying headbutt.
Goku defeated Nappa with his fists hitting Nappa's back and crippling him.
Goku brought Recoome down with an elbow.
Final Form Frieza beat vegeta near to death with physical attacks.
Gohan killed all the Cell Jrs. with simple punches and kicks.

I can go on and on. But none of those physical attacks packed anywhere near as much power as their ki attacks. In fact the strongest punch we see in DB is SSJ3 Goku punching thru King Kai's planet which is smaller than a skyscraper.

Originally posted by carver9
Let's also not forget Frieza dad words about a planets explosion. He didn't stress at all about it and basically called it petty. Ki attacks are greater than conventional attacks...this is well known...so disguising it as 'well, it's just a Ki attack' doesn't mean much when discussing it here because a casual blast from a Z fighter that wouldn't level a room>>>>any Nuke a human can muster in the DBZ verse.

You can't really use Frieza to determine feats for Saiyans. Hell you can't use Cell or Buu either since they all are far and away from the normal in that universe. Frieza was cut in half and was still alive and able to function. Hell now with the new movie we know he can survive being cut into tiny pieces. He was only killed by Trunks' blast. No "normal" being in DB has that kind of endurance.

Raditz was killed by having a hole blasted thru him.
Zarbon too.
Burter was killed by Vegeta crushing his neck

Again I can go on. The major villians in DBZ were only killed by destroying every single part of them. That's not the case with everyone so you pretending like it is is pretty faulty

Originally posted by juggerman
Cell claimed he could and we have no real reason to assume he was lying



Not true at all. Goku defeated Piccolo with a flying headbutt.
Goku defeated Nappa with his fists hitting Nappa's back and crippling him.
Goku brought Recoome down with an elbow.
Final Form Frieza beat vegeta near to death with physical attacks.
Gohan killed all the Cell Jrs. with simple punches and kicks.

I can go on and on. But none of those physical attacks packed anywhere near as much power as their ki attacks. In fact the strongest punch we see in DB is SSJ3 Goku punching thru King Kai's planet which is smaller than a skyscraper.



You can't really use Frieza to determine feats for Saiyans. Hell you can't use Cell or Buu either since they all are far and away from the normal in that universe. Frieza was cut in half and was still alive and able to function. Hell now with the new movie we know he can survive being cut into tiny pieces. He was only killed by Trunks' blast. No "normal" being in DB has that kind of endurance.

Raditz was killed by having a hole blasted thru him.
Zarbon too.
Burter was killed by Vegeta crushing his neck

Again I can go on. The major villians in DBZ were only killed by destroying every single part of them. That's not the case with everyone so you pretending like it is is pretty faulty

When I say conventional attacks, I mean EARTH based attacks. Attacks outside of what DBZ characters are dishing out.

Agree about cell and the spirit bomb.

What in the world. Why can't I include Frieza. Frieza living through being cut in half doesn't mean he is more DURABLE than Goku. Frieza durability withstood a planets explosion, not his healing properties or whatever you want to call it. That's like me saying Lizard (Spiderman villain) is more durable than Colossus due to the Lizard being able to survive without organs or being lopped in half, etc... durability is an entirely different case here and Goku IS more durable than Frieza.

This was proven when Goku Finger endured something that chopped Frieza body to pieces.

You keep mixing healing abilities with durability. Sigh.

Originally posted by juggerman
Cell cuts Beerus in half with the Destructo Disc

Disc is not a surefire way. The difference in power is too vast, it'd fail.

Originally posted by carver9
When I say conventional attacks, I mean EARTH based attacks. Attacks outside of what DBZ characters are dishing out.

Agree about cell and the spirit bomb.

What in the world. Why can't I include Frieza. Frieza living through being cut in half doesn't mean he is more DURABLE than Goku. Frieza durability withstood a planets explosion, not his healing properties or whatever you want to call it. That's like me saying Lizard (Spiderman villain) is more durable than Colossus due to the Lizard being able to survive without organs or being lopped in half, etc... durability is an entirely different case here and Goku IS more durable than Frieza.

This was proven when Goku Finger endured something that chopped Frieza body to pieces.

You keep mixing healing abilities with durability. Sigh.

We never really see what the Earth military is really capable of. (Assuming this is what you mean, if not correct me). We don't know that they have nukes and if they do are their nukes like ours. We do know that the way most Saiyans take a planet is by transforming. That's their ace. Goku could have still been defeated and killed in between full moons. Also Raditz had no idea of the weapons Earth had. He made that statement based on the fighters on the planet iirc

Frieza couldn't just heal tho. The only healing he did was when he transformed. But my point is that just because Frieza can do something doesn't mean more powerful people can. But I get what you are saying now. But my point still stands about the punches and kicks. Goku was KO'd by a chop from Vegeta that was several orders weaker than a planets busting in a severely weakened Frieza's face. Or Vegeta getting his arm broken by a kick that was weaker than Namek popping.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Disc is not a surefire way. The difference in power is too vast, it'd fail.

It never failed in canon. Probably because it's a cutting move and not a blast

Beerus laughs and one shits him.

Originally posted by juggerman
We never really see what the Earth military is really capable of. (Assuming this is what you mean, if not correct me). We don't know that they have nukes and if they do are their nukes like ours. We do know that the way most Saiyans take a planet is by transforming. That's their ace. Goku could have still been defeated and killed in between full moons. Also Raditz had no idea of the weapons Earth had. He made that statement based on the fighters on the planet iirc

Frieza couldn't just heal tho. The only healing he did was when he transformed. But my point is that just because Frieza can do something doesn't mean more powerful people can. But I get what you are saying now. But my point still stands about the punches and kicks. Goku was KO'd by a chop from Vegeta that was several orders weaker than a planets busting in a severely weakened Frieza's face. Or Vegeta getting his arm broken by a kick that was weaker than Namek popping.

Probably. Kid Goku did endure a lot...can't imagine a way of them defeating him, even during his mortal form.

Lol...of course peers could hurt peers. Pretty sure everyone Odin fought has not hit him with Galaxy shaking punches. Especially when he fought against someone that is his equal. When it all boils down though, DBZ character have high end durability, extremely high end and I'm talking about on average. I think you have a different mindset/judging factor when you compare DBZ characters vs American comics. It's written all over your post. Surfer, Superman, and other top tiers are not always being hit with planet exploding punches. Hell, I can't think of one instance when they are...but on AVERAGE, DBZ characters can handle that kind of power on a consistent bases better than a top tier can. When a top tier survives something like that, hell, when a top tier tank Nukes, it's a high showing but when DBZ withstand a full powered attack (example, Frieza tanking the 20 times Kamehameha), it's meh. We already know he can endure something like this. Imagine the hype on the form if someone like Thor or Superman outright tanked an attack that was planetary plus in power.

Originally posted by juggerman
It never failed in canon. Probably because it's a cutting move and not a blast

But it was only ever ONCE used on someone that was a lot stronger than the user, and it was base Goku using it on Buutenks. Buu's skin is easy to penetrate, as it was even pierced by Dabura throwing a spear through him. That's one of the things that made him so hard to fight. His ability to scoff at conventional, or really any, attacks, because of his massive regen capabilities. So that instance doesn't really count, since Bills relies on massive durability, not regeneration.

Anyway, the feats that Bills is getting now in DB Super are ridiculous. He was sleeping on his planet, and sneezed in his sleep, and destroyed two stars. Whiss went back in time to fix it. With that kind of power, even while sleeping, I can guarantee that his durability would have been able to overcome a simple Kienzan from SPC, probably even while sleeping.

It seems that you're forgetting the simple fact that pretty much every villain HAD kienzan. If it was able to kill their enemies that easily, they would have USED it. Especially Cell. He could have teleported behind Gohan, as the Kamehameha wave got close to him, and hit him with a kienzan like it was nothing. So kienzan must have been a bad idea against Gohan. For what reason, it's unsure, but probably because it simply wouldn't have had much effect on him, even at the level that Cell was at.

Idk, I think that it's silly to assume that kienzan can beat anyone's durability, just because the attack it is.

That would make other threads, like Goku vs Superman, completely one-sided. Because no matter how strong you say he is, kienzan could cut him in half.

Now that I made that comparison, do you see how ridiculous that sounds?

Originally posted by carver9
Probably. Kid Goku did endure a lot...can't figure a way of them defeating him, even during his mortal form.

Lol...of course peers could hurt peers. Pretty sure everyone Odin fought has not hit him with Galaxy shaking punches. Especially when he fought against someone that is his equal. When it all boils down though, DBZ character have high end durability, extremely high end and I'm rolling about on average. I think you have a different mindset/judging factor when you compare DBZ characters vs American comics. It's written all over your post. Surfer, Superman, and other top tiers are not always being hit with planet exploding punches. Hell, I can't think of one instance when they are...but on AVERAGE, DBZ characters can handle that kind of power on a consistent bases better than a top tier can. When a top tier survives something like that, hell, when a top tier tank Nukes, it's a high showing but when DBZ withstand a full powered attack (example, Frieza tanking the 20 times Kamehameha), it's meh. We already know he can endure something like this. Imagine the hype on the form if someone like Thor or Superman outright tanked an attack that was planetary plus in power.

But the 20x Kamehameha can destroy a planet. Not one thing points to them being able to punch and kick with the same kind of power. In your example, we know for a fact Kal and Thor have physical strength through the roof going in. How do we know? Because they do crazy things like lifting snakes that are big enough to wrap around the world, or bench the weight of the Earth.

Goku on the other hand has no strength feats on that level but even worse, neither do his foes. If Frieza cracked a planet in half with a punch and then Goku took several of his punches, you'd have a point. They best we have is SSJ3 Goku's punch on Kai's planet which is not anywhere near High Herald. Don't get me wrong, they have super duper high power output, but not physical strength

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
But it was only ever ONCE used on someone that was a lot stronger than the user, and it was base Goku using it on Buutenks. Buu's skin is easy to penetrate, as it was even pierced by Dabura throwing a spear through him. That's one of the things that made him so hard to fight. His ability to scoff at conventional, or really any, attacks, because of his massive regen capabilities. So that instance doesn't really count, since Bills relies on massive durability, not regeneration.

Anyway, the feats that Bills is getting now in DB Super are ridiculous. He was sleeping on his planet, and sneezed in his sleep, and destroyed two stars. Whiss went back in time to fix it. With that kind of power, even while sleeping, I can guarantee that his durability would have been able to overcome a simple Kienzan from SPC, probably even while sleeping.

It seems that you're forgetting the simple fact that pretty much every villain HAD kienzan. If it was able to kill their enemies that easily, they would have USED it. Especially Cell. He could have teleported behind Gohan, as the Kamehameha wave got close to him, and hit him with a kienzan like it was nothing. So kienzan must have been a bad idea against Gohan. For what reason, it's unsure, but probably because it simply wouldn't have had much effect on him, even at the level that Cell was at.

Idk, I think that it's silly to assume that kienzan can beat anyone's durability, just because the attack it is.

That would make other threads, like Goku vs Superman, completely one-sided. Because no matter how strong you say he is, kienzan could cut him in half.

Now that I made that comparison, do you see how ridiculous that sounds?

In this scenario Beerus is standing there and letting Cell attack him without trying to dodge. I'm not saying the Disc is the end all be all of techniques but it hits well out of it's weight class. The issue with using it in battle is that it seems very easy to dodge and hard to control unlike most other moves. So in the middle of a fight makes using it much harder than being given a free shot.

Originally posted by juggerman
But the 20x Kamehameha can destroy a planet. Not one thing points to them being able to punch and kick with the same kind of power. In your example, we know for a fact Kal and Thor have physical strength through the roof going in. How do we know? Because they do crazy things like lifting snakes that are big enough to wrap around the world, or bench the weight of the Earth.

Goku on the other hand has no strength feats on that level but even worse, neither do his foes. If Frieza cracked a planet in half with a punch and then Goku took several of his punches, you'd have a point. They best we have is SSJ3 Goku's punch on Kai's planet which is not anywhere near High Herald. Don't get me wrong, they have super duper high power output, but not physical strength

Actually, you're wrong. How many times in the series have DBZ characters batted away, or lifted, or tanked, planet busting attacks? Or even galaxy busting ones, now that Bills is a universe buster?

Imo, it seems like swatting away a planet busting+ attack should prove that you have ridiculous Superman level+ strength, given that you need a force of 110 quadrillion megatons. Which is the equivalent in force of 110 sextillion tons. Meaning that the blast, before exploding, would physically weigh that much, and after exploding, would produce a blast of that much force.

And it's even higher for the solar system, galaxy, and apparently universe, busting attacks we've seen. And btw, universe level has only been seen a handful of times by Superman, and every time, the universe level character has been capable of one-shotting him.

And Thor has even less impressive feats than Superman, so he doesn't even belong here.

Originally posted by juggerman
But the 20x Kamehameha can destroy a planet. Not one thing points to them being able to punch and kick with the same kind of power. In your example, we know for a fact Kal and Thor have physical strength through the roof going in. How do we know? Because they do crazy things like lifting snakes that are big enough to wrap around the world, or bench the weight of the Earth.

Goku on the other hand has no strength feats on that level but even worse, neither do his foes. If Frieza cracked a planet in half with a punch and then Goku took several of his punches, you'd have a point. They best we have is SSJ3 Goku's punch on Kai's planet which is not anywhere near High Herald. Don't get me wrong, they have super duper high power output, but not physical strength

They have the strength imo, they just never had a reason to display it. Neither Thor nor Superman broke a planet with their fist. We can't sit here and say they can 'outside of hyperbole'...that's if we are going the ft route you are going.

Also, lol, Thor used a freaking fishing pole and a boat in the snake showing. Come on man. You gotta do better than that. Thor has better showings.

Goku strength fts are him wrecking someone with high end durability. Question, would you be impressed if Hulk punched a hole in Odin and please explain why.

Originally posted by juggerman
In this scenario Beerus is standing there and letting Cell attack him without trying to dodge. I'm not saying the Disc is the end all be all of techniques but it hits well out of it's weight class. The issue with using it in battle is that it seems very easy to dodge and hard to control unlike most other moves. So in the middle of a fight makes using it much harder than being given a free shot.

Okay, I DO understand what you're saying here.

But the simple fact of the matter is that there is 100% nothing Cell can do against Bills EXCLUDING the possibility of kienzan. His best attack, the spirit bomb, when used against Frieza, did barely anything. The only reason it worked so well against Kid Buu, is because he was pure evil. Bills is not pure evil, and even if he was pure evil at heart, he isn't MADE of evil, like Kid Buu was.

And while just standing there, Bills, like every other DBZ character, is able to use all of his ki that he would normally use for fighting, to further increase his durability.

We wouldn't even be having this argument though, if Krillin wasn't such a ***** in BOTG's, and actually tried protecting his wife, who Bills just ktfo. Because it probably would have just bounced off of him.

And btw, the special beam cannon thing was proven against too, when Buutenks used it against Mystic Gohan, and he blocked it. Or was that filler as well? I can't recall.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Actually, you're wrong. How many times in the series have DBZ characters batted away, or lifted, or tanked, planet busting attacks? Or even galaxy busting ones, now that Bills is a universe buster?

Imo, it seems like swatting away a planet busting+ attack should prove that you have ridiculous Superman level+ strength, given that you need a force of 110 quadrillion megatons. Which is the equivalent in force of 110 sextillion tons. Meaning that the blast, before exploding, would physically weigh that much, and after exploding, would produce a blast of that much force.

And it's even higher for the solar system, galaxy, and apparently universe, busting attacks we've seen. And btw, universe level has only been seen a handful of times by Superman, and every time, the universe level character has been capable of one-shotting him.

And Thor has even less impressive feats than Superman, so he doesn't even belong here. There is no evidence that ki blasts have weight like that. If there is something that proves it please let me know. You like to try to apply real world logic in these things but it doesn't always apply

Thor is damn powerful but I didn't bring him up. Superman either

Originally posted by carver9
They have the strength imo, they just never had a reason to display it. Neither Thor nor Superman broke a planet with their fist. We can't sit here and say they can 'outside of hyperbole'...that's if we are going the ft route you are going.

Also, lol, Thor used a freaking fishing pole and a boat in the snake showing. Come on man. You gotta do better than that. Thor has better showings.

Goku strength fts are him wrecking someone with high end durability. Question, would you be impressed if Hulk punched a hole in Odin and please explain why.

While I completely agree with the Goku strength feats being wrecking someone with high end durability thing, I gotta say that you're kind of underselling Superman. And Odin.

Odin has destroyed galaxies before. It has severely weakened him, and made him very tired and winded, but he is a galaxy buster. But Thor is not even close to Odin level, so he's irrelevant.

And Superman is probably around Odin's level. He has sneezed away solar systems, pulled thousands of planets from one galaxy to another, flown faster than the Flash(Barry Allen) could run, held a black hole without instantly dying, survived supernova's, etc. His feats are, in fact, more impressive than Odin's, at least to me. But Superman doesn't have energy projection that lets him galaxy bust, or anything like that. He has heat vision, but that's best feat was destroying a planet. Which is Saiyan saga Vegeta level, so not that impressive to DBZ.

Originally posted by juggerman
There is no evidence that ki blasts have weight like that. If there is something that proves it please let me know. You like to try to apply real world logic in these things but it doesn't always apply

Thor is damn powerful but I didn't bring him up. Superman either

Actually there is. The evidence is common sense. These aren't nukes that the Z-fighters are flinging around at each other, they are condensed EXPLOSIONS. Explosions don't have WEIGHT, but they DO have force, which is the same thing, in principal. And the characters often times struggle with the blasts, and batting them away, blocking them, etc. And they are blown away by them, often times. So the blasts CLEARLY have force. The best way to determine how much, is by how big the explosions they make are. This, of course, in DBZ isn't always reliable, as many times, the explosions THEMSELVES are condensed, so they don't destroy the environment. A perfect example of this is Majin Vegeta's final explosion, against Fat Buu. However, it STILL gives us a bare minimum estimation. If a blast will destroy a planet, it has 110 quadrillion megatons inside it, or 110 sextillion tons. That weight doesn't just magically appear when the blast explodes. These aren't nukes they're throwing around, as I said earlier.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
While I completely agree with the Goku strength feats being wrecking someone with high end durability thing, I gotta say that you're kind of underselling Superman. And Odin.

Odin has destroyed galaxies before. It has severely weakened him, and made him very tired and winded, but he is a galaxy buster. But Thor is not even close to Odin level, so he's irrelevant.

And Superman is probably around Odin's level. He has sneezed away solar systems, pulled thousands of planets from one galaxy to another, flown faster than the Flash(Barry Allen) could run, held a black hole without instantly dying, survived supernova's, etc. His feats are, in fact, more impressive than Odin's, at least to me. But Superman doesn't have energy projection that lets him galaxy bust, or anything like that. He has heat vision, but that's best feat was destroying a planet. Which is Saiyan saga Vegeta level, so not that impressive to DBZ.

Yep...I know what Odin and Superman has done. I asked him the Odin question for a reason want to see what he will say.

I believe Superman can destroy a planet. I believe Thor can destroy one as well. What I am explaining to him is that he is basing things primarily off of fts and neither Thor nor Superman has destroyed planets. He cant give fts to one and not share to the others. Get what I'm saying?

That's pre crisis Superman who sneezed away Galaxies. Superman isn't close to that power anymore. Every ft you named was Pre Crisis. He isn't a valid Superman anymore.

Originally posted by carver9
They have the strength imo, they just never had a reason to display it. Neither Thor nor Superman broke a planet with their fist. We can't sit here and say they can 'outside of hyperbole'...that's if we are going the ft route you are going.

Also, lol, Thor used a freaking fishing pole and a boat in the snake showing. Come on man. You gotta do better than that. Thor has better showings.

Goku strength fts are him wrecking someone with high end durability. Question, would you be impressed if Hulk punched a hole in Odin and please explain why.

Thor and Superman have done things beyond that and the have gone toe to toe with beings that have so there are reasons we can assume what level they have. With DBZ we can't because no only do the not have superior feats(strictly talking strength here) they also don't have feats of going against people that can do those things. For example if a new character comes along and goes toe to toe WWH for a long fight and there is no clear winner, you'd naturally assume that character was around that tier even tho he has no real feats to speak of. So when Superman and Thor hold their own against people with better feats, we can assume they are around that level too

I'm not as versed on Thor but that was a feat I've heard was pretty up there lol. I'll do better next time

Yes I would be impressed. The reason is because he couldn't do that to Zeus

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Okay, I DO understand what you're saying here.

But the simple fact of the matter is that there is 100% nothing Cell can do against Bills EXCLUDING the possibility of kienzan. His best attack, the spirit bomb, when used against Frieza, did barely anything. The only reason it worked so well against Kid Buu, is because he was pure evil. Bills is not pure evil, and even if he was pure evil at heart, he isn't MADE of evil, like Kid Buu was.

And while just standing there, Bills, like every other DBZ character, is able to use all of his ki that he would normally use for fighting, to further increase his durability.

We wouldn't even be having this argument though, if Krillin wasn't such a ***** in BOTG's, and actually tried protecting his wife, who Bills just ktfo. Because it probably would have just bounced off of him.

And btw, the special beam cannon thing was proven against too, when Buutenks used it against Mystic Gohan, and he blocked it. Or was that filler as well? I can't recall.

Right. I don't know if the Disc {i]WOULD work but it's his best shot imo.

Dunno about the Canon being filler or not

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Actually there is. The evidence is common sense. These aren't nukes that the Z-fighters are flinging around at each other, they are condensed EXPLOSIONS. Explosions don't have WEIGHT, but they DO have force, which is the same thing, in principal. And the characters often times struggle with the blasts, and batting them away, blocking them, etc. And they are blown away by them, often times. So the blasts CLEARLY have force. The best way to determine how much, is by how big the explosions they make are. This, of course, in DBZ isn't always reliable, as many times, the explosions THEMSELVES are condensed, so they don't destroy the environment. A perfect example of this is Majin Vegeta's final explosion, against Fat Buu. However, it STILL gives us a bare minimum estimation. If a blast will destroy a planet, it has 110 quadrillion megatons inside it, or 110 sextillion tons. That weight doesn't just magically appear when the blast explodes. These aren't nukes they're throwing around, as I said earlier.

The ki doesn't just explode right away tho so there's no reason to assume it has the total weight of the explosion before it explodes any more than a grenade does. Or a nuke. Again common sense doesn't always fit in comics. Ki isn't something that we have and can measure in our verse so we can't assume it follows any rules we know of. Unless there is some in universe explanation, we can only say we don't know

Originally posted by juggerman
Thor and Superman have done things beyond that and the have gone toe to toe with beings that have so there are reasons we can assume what level they have. With DBZ we can't because no only do the not have superior feats(strictly talking strength here) they also don't have feats of going against people that can do those things. For example if a new character comes along and goes toe to toe WWH for a long fight and there is no clear winner, you'd naturally assume that character was around that tier even tho he has no real feats to speak of. So when Superman and Thor hold their own against people with better feats, we can assume they are around that level too

I'm not as versed on Thor but that was a feat I've heard was pretty up there lol. I'll do better next time

Yes I would be impressed. The reason is because he couldn't do that to Zeus

Lol...it's different in American comics though. Fighting a character doesn't necessarily put you in their tier physically (who has these two fought that has punched a planet to dust). Everyone in a certain tier fights people all of the time that is above their pay grade. It is what it is. Also, what ft does either of these guys have that's above planet busting. Strength fts. Benching weights and destroying something are two different things in my opinion. I can curl a lot but I sure as hell can not destroy something with my fist that has the weight of what I can curl. Get what I'm saying here?

WWH has fought against beings that isn't physically on his level.

Superman has fought with beings that isn't as strong as him.

Thor has.

Juggernaut has.

You get the point. All I'm saying is, give credit where credit is due. If you believe that character A can do this and character B can't, you should have a reasonable answer behind it minus who a character has fought because Diana has fought Superman on numerous of occasions but I would not rely on her as being one of the individuals to destroy the dark matter moon.

Sigh...ok, without you bringing other characters into this...if Hulk punched a hole clean through Odin, why would you be impressed (I think you see where I am going with this and is trying to avoid it)?

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...it's different in American comics though. Fighting a character doesn't necessarily put you in their tier physically (who has these two fought that has punched a planet to dust). Everyone in a certain tier fights people all of the time that is above their pay grade. It is what it is. Also, what ft does either of these guys have that's above planet busting. Strength fts. Benching weights and destroying something are two different things in my opinion. I can curl a lot but I sure as hell can not destroy something with my fist that has the weight of what I can curl. Get what I'm saying here?

WWH has fought against beings that isn't physically on his level.

Superman has fought with beings that isn't as strong as him.

Thor has.

Juggernaut has.

You get the point. All I'm saying is, give credit where credit is due. If you believe that character A can do this and character B can't, you should have a reasonable answer behind it minus who a character has fought because Diana has fought Superman on numerous of occasions but I would not rely on her as being one of the individuals to destroy the dark matter moon.

Sigh...ok, without you bringing other characters into this...if Hulk punched a hole clean through Odin, why would you be impressed (I think you see where I am going with this and is trying to avoid it)?

I'm talking about being someone's physical equal which is why I said someone fight WWH evenly with no clear winner. In the comic we know he was holding back but he was still clearly above everyone else except maybe Sentry. I don't mean like Batman holding his own against a mind controlled or holding back Superman. I mean like a dead even, strictly physically, both parties giving it their all fight.

I can't lift a 4 foot pile of sand but I can certainly destroy the pile.

I see what you are saying about characters fighting each other but you are taking what I'm saying out of context. There are clear indications of power ranges in comics. Spiderman holding his own once or twice against Thor would not put him on Thor's level when we have about a million other showings where Thor and SM are far and away n different tiers. But in DB we have not one instance of someone having planet level strength. So we can't assume they have it just because we want them too. Physical attacks and ki attacks are wildly different and so are the character's defenses to them.

Are you referring to Gohan punching a hole thru Frieza? If so that's non canon. That's the only thing I can think of

Originally posted by carver9
Superman isn't close to that power anymore. Every ft you named was Pre Crisis. He isn't a valid Superman anymore.

Thats because people like you wrote to Pak and others and bitched and complained how far he outclassed Hulk and that his power needed to be reigned in.

Originally posted by juggerman
I'm talking about being someone's physical equal which is why I said someone fight WWH evenly with no clear winner. In the comic we know he was holding back but he was still clearly above everyone else except maybe Sentry. I don't mean like Batman holding his own against a mind controlled or holding back Superman. I mean like a dead even, strictly physically, both parties giving it their all fight.

I can't lift a 4 foot pile of sand but I can certainly destroy the pile.

I see what you are saying about characters fighting each other but you are taking what I'm saying out of context. There are clear indications of power ranges in comics. Spiderman holding his own once or twice against Thor would not put him on Thor's level when we have about a million other showings where Thor and SM are far and away n different tiers. But in DB we have not one instance of someone having planet level strength. So we can't assume they have it just because we want them too. Physical attacks and ki attacks are wildly different and so are the character's defenses to them.

Are you referring to Gohan punching a hole thru Frieza? If so that's non canon. That's the only thing I can think of

Who has Thor or Superman fought evenly with that can or has shed planets with their fist? If we are going to assume that are equal to beings that can wreck planets just by punching them (which is a rare occasion, extremely rare occasion in comics), then we need to see said character that either of these two fought achieving something like this. Who is this planet puncher you're talking about? Also, New 52 Supes said he can not destroy a planet.

No: my question doesn't have anything to do with Goku or anyone in DBZ. I just want to know if you would be impressed with Hulk punching a hole in Odin and if so, why would you be impressed.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Thats because people like you wrote to Pak and others and bitched and complained how far he outclassed Hulk and that his power needed to be reigned in.



I do not dislike Superman and by the time they depowered him, I probably wasn't born. That was a call on DC not me or people like me.

The most powerful attack Cell displayed was his final Kamehameha, which possessed solar system-busting potential. That said, it wouldn't so much as leave a scuff on Beerus' clothing, imo. I am quite confident of this because in the preview for next week's episode of DBS, Beerus is shown tanking a blast from an enraged SSJ3 Goku, without even flinching:
http://i.imgur.com/xczfIjMl.png
http://i.imgur.com/msYD3Nsl.png
http://i.imgur.com/LQlPjaFl.png
http://i.imgur.com/Hvlua0jl.png
http://i.imgur.com/ILLBKOOl.png


Given that SSJ3 Goku is more than 4x> Super-Perfect Cell, pretty much any of his all-out/charged attacks would be superior to Cell's final Kamehameha. Collateral damage is irrelevant.

Originally posted by carver9


I do not dislike Superman and by the time they depowered him, I probably wasn't born. That was a call on DC not me or people like me.

Oh well my sig is way better then yours.

Keep miring bro

Originally posted by juggerman
It never failed in canon. Probably because it's a cutting move and not a blast
Krillin using disc on Cell was filler?

^ Yes. As was the Cell Juniors using them against SSJ2 Gohan.

Didn't Krillin also use a disc it Frieza, or was that only in the anime?

He did spam discs at 2th form Frieza in the manga.

Originally posted by Galan007
http://i.imgur.com/FrxvDJdm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/lcHS0Q7m.jpg

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He did spam discs at 2th form Frieza in the manga.



Thanks, I believe that is the best example of a signifantly less powerful character injuring a much stronger with a disc.

Originally posted by Galan007
The most powerful attack Cell displayed was his final Kamehameha, which possessed solar system-busting potential. That said, it wouldn't so much as leave a scuff on Beerus' clothing, imo. I am quite confident of this because in the preview for next week's episode of DBS, Beerus is shown tanking a blast from an enraged SSJ3 Goku, without even flinching:
http://i.imgur.com/xczfIjMl.png
http://i.imgur.com/msYD3Nsl.png
http://i.imgur.com/LQlPjaFl.png
http://i.imgur.com/Hvlua0jl.png
http://i.imgur.com/ILLBKOOl.png


Given that SSJ3 Goku is more than 4x> Super-Perfect Cell, pretty much any of his all-out/charged attacks would be superior to Cell's final Kamehameha. Collateral damage is irrelevant.

^

Originally posted by carver9
Who has Thor or Superman fought evenly with that can or has shed planets with their fist? If we are going to assume that are equal to beings that can wreck planets just by punching them (which is a rare occasion, extremely rare occasion in comics), then we need to see said character that either of these two fought achieving something like this. Who is this planet puncher you're talking about? Also, New 52 Supes said he can not destroy a planet.

No: my question doesn't have anything to do with Goku or anyone in DBZ. I just want to know if you would be impressed with Hulk punching a hole in Odin and if so, why would you be impressed.

Didn't Hulk punch thru a meteor twice the size of Earth or some such? Hulk and Thor are strength peers with Hulk edging him due to his rage boosts. And that was a weaker Hulk iirc. Can you name me one DBZ punching feat that was on that level? Or a lifting feat like the Superman bench press or even moving the moon with help?

I would be impressed because Odin is on a whole other level than Hulk. He's much much more powerful so Hulk doing something like that would be nuts imo

Originally posted by juggerman
Didn't Hulk punch thru a meteor twice the size of Earth or some such? Hulk and Thor are strength peers with Hulk edging him due to his rage boosts. And that was a weaker Hulk iirc. Can you name me one DBZ punching feat that was on that level? Or a lifting feat like the Superman bench press or even moving the moon with help?

I would be impressed because Odin is on a whole other level than Hulk. He's much much more powerful so Hulk doing something like that would be nuts imo

Yes, Hulk punched through a meteor twice the size of Earth. Have a question for anyone here. I know in the Anime Goku and Cell was shaking Earth during their fist cuff. Did that happen in the Manga as well? The thing is though, I know DBZ characters can drop top tiers with hits just like I know beings from Invincible can as well (even though they don't come close to having strength fts like Hulk and Superman). Lifting fts isn't the end all be all of fts. There are people without those type of fts that I feel could stomp Superman and Hulk to the ground.

An example of this is Starbreaker vs Superman. He doesn't have a single ft under his name that is on Superman's level, but, he tanks Superman punches like nothing.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/148326/4030781-3013889719-39814.jpg

This goes for people like the General, Despero, Grundy, etc...they don't share or come close to having strength fts on people like Hulk's level but at the end of the day, they can give him a fight. If you look at DBZ punching power, that gives us a good indication that they can hurt Supes with their hits.

What durability fts does Odin have that makes it impressive for Hulk to punch a hole in him?

Also, what about Superman? What planet crusher has Superman fought evenly with physically that makes you think Supes can crush a planet?

Hulk and your Superman fanboy crush isnt in this thread, get off it.

I didn't start that but overall, I agree with you. Let's not bring up Hulk and Supes in this debate Juggy. It isn't needed.

Originally posted by carver9
Yes, Hulk punched through a meteor twice the size of Earth. Have a question for anyone here. I know in the Anime Goku and Cell was shaking Earth during their fist cuff. Did that happen in the Manga as well? The thing is though, I know DBZ characters can drop top tiers with hits just like I know beings from Invincible can as well (even though they don't come close to having strength fts like Hulk and Superman). Lifting fts isn't the end all be all of fts. There are people without those type of fts that I feel could stomp Superman and Hulk to the ground.

An example of this is Starbreaker vs Superman. He doesn't have a single ft under his name that is on Superman's level, but, he tanks Superman punches like nothing.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/148326/4030781-3013889719-39814.jpg

This goes for people like the General, Despero, Grundy, etc...they don't share or come close to having strength fts on people like Hulk's level but at the end of the day, they can give him a fight. If you look at DBZ punching power, that gives us a good indication that they can hurt Supes with their hits.

What durability fts does Odin have that makes it impressive for Hulk to punch a hole in him?

Also, what about Superman? What planet crusher has Superman fought evenly with physically that makes you think Supes can crush a planet?

You keep asking me questions but you don't answer mine. What feats does Goku have with just physical strength. Not just Goku, but anyone in DB. The best feats that I recall are punching thru King Kai's planet by SSJ3 Goku and tossing the pillar by Tao. Both of which can be done by Supes in his sleep. If you don't have the feats you have to concede the point.

Originally posted by carver9
I didn't start that but overall, I agree with you. Let's not bring up Hulk and Supes in this debate Juggy. It isn't needed.

YOU keep bringing up other characters in this. You brought up Lizard and Colossus and Superman and Thor and Surfer and Odin and Juggernaut. I think it was me that mentioned Hulk first but that was in response to you using Marvel and DC as your example. If you would like to stick with DB I'm good with that.

Originally posted by juggerman
You keep asking me questions but you don't answer mine. What feats does Goku have with just physical strength. Not just Goku, but anyone in DB. The best feats that I recall are punching thru King Kai's planet by SSJ3 Goku and tossing the pillar by Tao. Both of which can be done by Supes in his sleep. If you don't have the feats you have to concede the point.



YOU keep bringing up other characters in this. You brought up Lizard and Colossus and Superman and Thor and Surfer and Odin and Juggernaut. I think it was me that mentioned Hulk first but that was in response to you using Marvel and DC as your example. If you would like to stick with DB I'm good with that.

Concede what point?

Goku was a 100 tonner as a kid. Don't think kid Goku could put a scratch on his older self. His strength did nothing but increase at that point. Overall he doesn't have lifting fts but it's obvious he can clean Superman clock based off the power gap of his previous showings.

Originally posted by carver9
Concede what point?

Goku was a 100 tonner as a kid. Don't think kid Goku could put a scratch on his older self. His strength did nothing but increase at that point. Overall he doesn't have lifting fts but it's obvious he can clean Superman clock based off the power gap of his previous showings.

Thought we were leaving Superman out of this?

Originally posted by carver9
Yep...I know what Odin and Superman has done. I asked him the Odin question for a reason want to see what he will say.

I believe Superman can destroy a planet. I believe Thor can destroy one as well. What I am explaining to him is that he is basing things primarily off of fts and neither Thor nor Superman has destroyed planets. He cant give fts to one and not share to the others. Get what I'm saying?

That's pre crisis Superman who sneezed away Galaxies. Superman isn't close to that power anymore. Every ft you named was Pre Crisis. He isn't a valid Superman anymore.

not all the feats he named are pre crisis

Originally posted by juggerman
Thought we were leaving Superman out of this?

My bad. Well, the topic is pointless then since our debate was entirely on Goku strength vs top tiers.

Originally posted by carver9
My bad. Well, the topic is pointless then since our debate was entirely on Goku strength vs top tiers.

You're thread didn't even include Goku in the OP. Was this just a thread to make a point for Goku vs Superman????????

Originally posted by juggerman
You're thread didn't even include Goku in the OP. Was this just a thread to make a point for Goku vs Superman????????

Of coarse it was.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Of coarse it was.

I know I just want him to say it

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AngstromZero/media-full//superman_vs_goku.jpg.html

It had nothing to do with Superman though. I wanted to know what people thought of this scenario. I have been talking about Cell destructive power since Galan posted that scan.

That battle is trash

Originally posted by juggerman
That battle is trash

That battle is legit.

Death Battle is legit. Twice

Originally posted by juggerman
Death Battle is legit. Twice

1 Goku vs 5 Supermen yep, that's legit. Why are we talking about this? So, the moral is, Beerus can withstand everything Cell throws at him. Thanks for replying everyone.

Originally posted by carver9
1 Goku vs 5 Supermen yep, that's legit. Why are we talking about this? So, the moral is, Beerus can withstand everything Cell throws at him. Thanks for replying everyone.

Bit of an exaggeration. Seems like this really got under your skin man. Be cool

Originally posted by juggerman
Bit of an exaggeration. Seems like this really got under your skin man. Be cool

Lol...I'm straight. I like screw attack. I just think they dislike Anime characters. They never win.

Originally posted by carver9
. They never win.

Just like you, no wonder

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...I'm straight. I like screw attack. I just think they dislike Anime characters. They never win.

They used both characters at their best. Well Supes wasn't at his "best best" but still Superman's best is above Goku's best.

Originally posted by juggerman
They used both characters at their best. Well Supes wasn't at his "best best" but still Superman's best is above Goku's best.

Yea they would of have to used CA or Gold Prime One Million. But then again if they did that, their would not be enough tampons in the world to stop the bleed from carvers ass.

Originally posted by juggerman
They used both characters at their best. Well Supes wasn't at his "best best" but still Superman's best is above Goku's best.

They used all star Superman, New 52 Superman, Superman Prime, Post Crisis Superman, Pre Crisis and I think they added KC in there somewhere. They used fts from all of these characters. They used ONE GOKU. One. And then they dressed the Superman that Goku fought in New 52 clothing. They did a fusion dance for 5 Supermen vs one freaking Goku. There is something entirely wrong with that.

Using Super MEN at their best, yes, they can beat Goku.

Originally posted by carver9
They used all star Superman, New 52 Superman, Superman Prime, Post Crisis Superman, Pre Crisis and I think they added KC in there somewhere. They used fts from all of these characters. They used ONE GOKU. One. And then they dressed the Superman that Goku fought in New 52 clothing. They did a fusion dance for 5 Supermen vs one freaking Goku. There is something entirely wrong with that.

Using Super MEN at their best, yes, they can beat Goku.

I'll have to rewatch it. I do remember All Star in there now tho.

In the second one they just used Post Crisis and New 52 right?

Originally posted by juggerman
I'll have to rewatch it. I do remember All Star in there now tho.

In the second one they just used Post Crisis and New 52 right?

...no. Please relook at the fts.

Originally posted by carver9
...no. Please relook at the fts.

I can't at the moment. Help me out a bit

Lol...I forgot, they used Superman from the movie as well when he circled the earth. Lol.

I hate you

Originally posted by juggerman
I hate you

...I just relooked at it and they didn't include Pre Crisis. They focused mainly on New 52 and Post Crisis Supes, AND All Star as well. They did show movie Supes...unsure if they used the ft though since they didn't say anything. They still used more than one Supes and then they got those fts wrong.

Originally posted by carver9
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AngstromZero/media-full//superman_vs_goku.jpg.html

It had nothing to do with Superman though. I wanted to know what people thought of this scenario. I have been talking about Cell destructive power since Galan posted that scan. Indeed, Cell's final Kamehameha had the power to destroy the solar system.

Cell himself confirmed it in the manga:
http://i.imgur.com/AsNGAKYm.jpg


And it was later confirmed in a canon guidebook which detailed the 'Grades' of Super Saiyan:
Originally posted by Galan007
http://i.imgur.com/fWdlp09.jpg

Translation:
-Super Saiyan Grade Five (Super Saiyan 2)-
"An aura with sparks like flashes of lightning and an upright, combative hairstyle are the distinguishing features of this, the strongest Saiyan warrior! One's personality also becomes aggressive; even the ordinarily gentle Gohan started to enjoy battle! Its power is enough to push back even Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!"


Furthermore, "blow away" the solar system implies that he could have wiped it out nigh-instantly with that one attack(ie. it wouldn't have been a lengthy domino effect or what have you)... And that was 'just' SSJ2-level power.


That being said, Beerus would still tank it completely unscathed, as he did with SSJ3 Goku's blast in the preview scene I posted earlier.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...I'm straight. I like screw attack. I just think they dislike Anime characters. They never win.


Well, not really. Don't forget Vegeta won against Shadow. The other winners from anime are Zechs Merquise (Epyon Gundam), and Guts.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
Well, not really. Don't forget Vegeta won against Shadow. The other winners from anime are Zechs Merquise (Epyon Gundam), and Guts.

Which is another thing that proves Screwwy attacks bias. They claimed that SSJ1 Vegeta was faster than Shadow, who can move light speed, but then claimed that SSJ4 Goku was only 4X light speed at top speed.

They can't stick to their stories. They keep changing what they're saying, to make the scenario better for the characters they favor.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Which is another thing that proves Screwwy attacks bias. They claimed that SSJ1 Vegeta was faster than Shadow, who can move light speed, but then claimed that SSJ4 Goku was only 4X light speed at top speed.



IIRC they never said anything about Vegeta being faster than Shadow. And for SSJ4 Goku, their calculation only showed SSJ4 is only over 2 times speed of light. Not 4.

Originally posted by juggerman
You keep asking me questions but you don't answer mine. What feats does Goku have with just physical strength. Not just Goku, but anyone in DB. The best feats that I recall are punching thru King Kai's planet by SSJ3 Goku and tossing the pillar by Tao. Both of which can be done by Supes in his sleep. If you don't have the feats you have to concede the point.

There are other raw strength feats in DB, like, for example, Gohan blowing up the Cell Jrs with his bare hands.
The fundamental yardstick of DB characters' powers is Freeza: without him, nobody would remotely consider the DBZ crew as strong.

- Energy output: 1st form Freeza, with a 530'000 BP level which is then considered fodder in the very same saga, is capable to blow up a planet with 10 times the gravitational force of Earth.
- Physical resistance: a drained final form Freeza, cut in half, survives the explosion of planet Namek. Now, someone could say that this physical resistance is a peculiarity of Freeza's race, still, this feat permits us to classificate the power of post-Namek DBZ characters, who are indeed capable to destroy Freeza with both energy and physical attacks.

In fact, as an example, we have Ssj Trunks who is capable to cut an albeit suppressed Mecha Freeza in half with utmost ease, yet, Ssj Goku's finger imbued with Ki easily resists the hits of Trunks' sword. This happens because Goku's BP is > Trunks', and higher Ki implies higher physical strength as well.
Then, a stronger Ssj Trunks attacks #18 but his sword breaks on the cyborg's arm: this happens because Trunks' Ki is not enough to overcome #18's higher BP.
At the end of all this, we have the Cell Jrs: these dudes are even superior to suppressed PC and they can tank any type of energy and physical attack from characters on par and below suppressed Perfect Cell's battle power, yet Ssj2 Gohan makes them literally blow up with his fists.

Given all the previous implications, isn't this an enormous display of physical strength?
An things in DB go on like that continously: Ssj3 Goku could stand motionless reading a newspaper and nobody of the previously mentioned characters would be able to scratch him, not with energy attacks nor physically, yet a singer finger-flick from Beerus is enough to make him roll like a ball. Isn't this a display of great physical strength as well?

Originally posted by Galan007
Indeed, Cell's final Kamehameha had the power to destroy the solar system.

Cell himself confirmed it in the manga:
http://i.imgur.com/AsNGAKYm.jpg


And it was later confirmed in a canon guidebook which detailed the 'Grades' of Super Saiyan:



Furthermore, "blow away" the solar system implies that he could have wiped it out nigh-instantly with that one attack(ie. it wouldn't have been a lengthy domino effect or what have you)... And that was 'just' SSJ2-level power.


That being said, Beerus would still tank it completely unscathed, as he did with SSJ3 Goku's blast in the preview scene I posted earlier.

Won't it be a hyperhole for what Cell said?

He can be arrogant saying so.

Originally posted by Blockythe1guy
Won't it be a hyperhole for what Cell said?

He can be arrogant saying so.

It was confirmed in the Bio that Cell statement was true. Can't get any clearer than that.

Originally posted by Blockythe1guy
Won't it be a hyperhole for what Cell said?

He can be arrogant saying so. You could have argued that, had the exact same statement not been corroborated in a bio.

Given that, Cell's statement was fact, not hyperbole.

Originally posted by Galan007
You could have argued that, had the exact same statement not been corroborated in a bio.

Given that, Cell's statement was fact, not hyperbole.

So, Someone like Fat Buu can destroy Solar System in one attack then? hm

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
There are other raw strength feats in DB, like, for example, Gohan blowing up the Cell Jrs with his bare hands.
The fundamental yardstick of DB characters' powers is Freeza: without him, nobody would remotely consider the DBZ crew as strong.

- Energy output: 1st form Freeza, with a 530'000 BP level which is then considered fodder in the very same saga, is capable to blow up a planet with 10 times the gravitational force of Earth.
- Physical resistance: a drained final form Freeza, cut in half, survives the explosion of planet Namek. Now, someone could say that this physical resistance is a peculiarity of Freeza's race, still, this feat permits us to classificate the power of post-Namek DBZ characters, who are indeed capable to destroy Freeza with both energy and physical attacks.

In fact, as an example, we have Ssj Trunks who is capable to cut an albeit suppressed Mecha Freeza in half with utmost ease, yet, Ssj Goku's finger imbued with Ki easily resists the hits of Trunks' sword. This happens because Goku's BP is > Trunks', and higher Ki implies higher physical strength as well.
Then, a stronger Ssj Trunks attacks #18 but his sword breaks on the cyborg's arm: this happens because Trunks' Ki is not enough to overcome #18's higher BP.
At the end of all this, we have the Cell Jrs: these dudes are even superior to suppressed PC and they can tank any type of energy and physical attack from characters on par and below suppressed Perfect Cell's battle power, yet Ssj2 Gohan makes them literally blow up with his fists.

Given all the previous implications, isn't this an enormous display of physical strength?
An things in DB go on like that continously: Ssj3 Goku could stand motionless reading a newspaper and nobody of the previously mentioned characters would be able to scratch him, not with energy attacks nor physically, yet a singer finger-flick from Beerus is enough to make him roll like a ball. Isn't this a display of great physical strength as well? I think you mentioned this earlier, but feats like these would require gargantuan strength in their own right:
http://i.imgur.com/XBJK48Fl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/GAECPyOl.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/2QA203Kl.jpg


...Especially when we factor in how friggin tiny 4th form Freeza was:
http://i.imgur.com/lEtf3Vx.jpg

Goku's canon height=5'9", so Freeza would likely fall somewhere in the 4' range... And maybe 100lbs, max.

I'm no mathologist, but I can still say with certainty that Goku would have to apply astronomical amounts of force in order to hit/throw something as small as Freeza, hard enough to shatter mountains.


Originally posted by Blockythe1guy
So, Someone like Fat Buu can destroy Solar System in one attack then? hm In theory, yes.

Crazy that those locks didn't even hurt Frieza. His durability was insane.

Originally posted by carver9
Crazy that those locks didn't even hurt Frieza. His durability was insane. Hell yeah his durability was insane. The dude survived a planetary detonation when he was chopped in half AND almost entirely depleted of energy.

Originally posted by Galan007
Hell yeah his durability was insane. The dude survived a planetary detonation when he was chopped in half AND almost entirely depleted of energy.

Didn't think about it like that. Yeah, that is one of his best showings. I think this is his best though.

https://youtu.be/ViJ-IqkeChE

He tanks the 20 times Kamehameha. Remember, Goku Kamehameha times 3 (I think) had enough power to shed Earth. Akira went all out when he made Frieza. Heard that the Frieza saga was suppose to be the last manga Akira planned on doing? Does anyone know if this is true?

It is true. Toriyama planned to end at the Freeza saga, but opted to continue the story after being pressured by fans and producers.

Question...don't know what people think of the God's in DBZ but they tend to know EVERYTHING when it comes to logic, power levels, and everything else that happens in the universe (they can even sense when a planet is being destroyed). Old Ki tells us that if Buu isn't stopped, he will destroy the Universe.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11112/111124555/3759652-0227483521-19528.jpg

Not only does this Ki tells us this but Piccolo does as well. He tells us Buu will kill EVERYTHING in the universe.

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/images/attachment/goku-vs-superman-vs-naruto-vs-ichigo-vs-luffy-vs-hst-vs-dragon-ball-z-vs-bleach-x-6866thumbnail200x313.jpg

Vegeta also tells us that Buu and Goku fight will determine the fate of the Universe. Was Buu early on a Universal threat/being? Capable of destroying a Universe?

Not all at once but yes he could have eventually destroyed the universe if not stopped

Boo could have undoubtedly destroyed the universe, given enough time... But if you're asking if he could have destroyed the universe in one fell swoop(ie. with a single blast), then the answer is no. Nothing Supports the notion that Boo could one-shot the universe.

That's impossible though. How can you destroy a 'universe' a piece at a time? Doesn't make sense to me.

^ Planet-by-planet. Star-by-star. Solar system-by-solar system. Etc.

Eventually there would be nothing left in the universe to destroy.

Originally posted by carver9
Doesn't make sense to me.

Yes it does Carver. You just want him to be a universe buster

Originally posted by juggerman
Yes it does Carver. You just want him to be a universe buster Him being a universal threat is enough for me.

^ If left unchecked, Boo was a universal threat... But for all we know, it would have taken him eons to actually destroy the universe.

He definitely favored the planet-by-planet method of destruction, after all.

But it was also mentioned that Buu destroyed Galaxies. It all depends on his method. It seems like he was searching for fighters and destroying the planet afterwards.

Originally posted by carver9
But it was also mentioned that Buu destroyed Galaxies. It all depends on his method. It seems like he was searching for fighters and destroying the planet afterwards. You're talking about this scene, I assume:
http://i.imgur.com/KfqErPi.png

That is a fanmade scanlation. 100% non-canon.


Here's the canon scene from VIZ:
http://i.imgur.com/b4YvRZ6.png


So again: Boo preferred the planet-by-planet method of destruction--and he destroyed "hundreds of planets" during his last rampage. Impressive, to be sure, but still a very far cry from the "destruction of countless worlds and entire galaxies" he's given credit for in that ridiculous scanlation, lol.

Dang

Hm, That pretty impressive.

Also, Can an full-powered SSJ4 Gogeta can destroy an Galaxy or the universe in one-go?

It shouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for SSJ4 Gogeta to unleash a galaxy-buster.

Originally posted by Galan007
I think you mentioned this earlier, but feats like these would require gargantuan strength in their own right:
http://i.imgur.com/XBJK48Fl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/GAECPyOl.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/2QA203Kl.jpg


...Especially when we factor in how friggin tiny 4th form Freeza was:
http://i.imgur.com/lEtf3Vx.jpg

Goku's canon height=5'9", so Freeza would likely fall somewhere in the 4' range... And maybe 100lbs, max.

I'm no mathologist, but I can still say with certainty that Goku would have to apply astronomical amounts of force in order to hit/throw something as small as Freeza, hard enough to shatter mountains.


In theory, yes.



What is also important to notice is that there would be no way that someone with a BP not in the millions could even hope to make final form Freeza budge (it would indeed happen a replay of the Nail-1st form Freeza fight) and in DB, unlike comics, power and strength increase substantially every saga, so the physical force/resistance displayed by Goku and Freeza in the scans you posted are already fodder tier by the times of the Androids saga.

For the rest of your posts in this page regarding Kid Boo's destructive power, I agree as always.