Supreme Kai Strength?

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carthage
I've never gotten a straight answer for his power level or a decent approximation either. What's his power level or what character is he closest to in strength? Base King Kai not After his fusion with Kibito

Galan007
More powerful than Piccolo/Goten/Trunks. Weaker than Dabra.

He's probably about as powerful as Goku was during the Cell Games, imo.

dadudemon
I'd say he was as powerful as Vegeta after his first training session in the Time Chamber. Not quite as powerful as a FPSSJ but probably around ASSJ (SSJ2).

Well, I change my mind. Maybe somewhere between Imperfect Cell and Grade 2 Vegeta.

Galan007
^ I think he was stronger than ASSJ Vegeta, to be able to fell Freeza with a single blow... But maybe I think higher of Freeza than most. /shrug

dadudemon
Originally posted by Galan007
^ I think he was stronger than ASSJ Vegeta, to be able to fell Freeza with a single blow... But maybe I think higher of Freeza than most. /shrug

If you want something comparable on a power-gap, look at Goku vs. Recome. Goku put down Recoome in one strike.

There's also an argument that Eastern Supreme Kai is being compared to first form Frieza, not final form (4th form) when it came to the "1000 times stronger" comment.



http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Supreme_Kai#Power



We do know he is weaker than SSJ2 young adult Gohan. We do know he is stronger than Piccolo and that Piccolo was at least as strong as Android 17 by that time (probably stronger due to training).

So we do have a nice range.

Stronger than Android 17 but weaker than young adult SSJ2 Gohan.


But that difference in power is quite large.


But he seems to or appears to be closer in power to ASSJ Vegeta than he does SSJ2 young adult Gohan. That's my opinion...he was the weakest Supreme Kai.

Galan007
Originally posted by dadudemon
If you want something comparable on a power-gap, look at Goku vs. Recome. Goku put down Recoome in one strike.

There's also an argument that Eastern Supreme Kai is being compared to first form Frieza, not final form (4th form) when it came to the "1000 times stronger" comment.

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Supreme_Kai#Power The "1,000x stronger than Freeza" statement is from the anime only.

The canon line from VIZ merely has Kaioshin state that each of the 5 original Kaioshin(which would include himself) could have "felled Freeza with one blow":
http://i.imgur.com/Bj7NC7I.png

Originally posted by dadudemon
We do know he is weaker than SSJ2 young adult Gohan. We do know he is stronger than Piccolo and that Piccolo was at least as strong as Android 17 by that time (probably stronger due to training).

So we do have a nice range.

Stronger than Android 17 but weaker than young adult SSJ2 Gohan.


But that difference in power is quite large.


But he seems to or appears to be closer in power to ASSJ Vegeta than he does SSJ2 young adult Gohan. That's my opinion...he was the weakest Supreme Kai. I think by the end of the Cell saga, Piccolo was at least on par with Imperfect Cell(arguably greater), given that he was stated to have become "much stronger" after training in the RoSaT, and was also able to fight the Cell Junior without being KO'd/incapacitated--even after Cell gave them the order to kill(something only Trunks and Vegeta were able to duplicate.)

So by the time of the Boo saga(7 years later), I don't see why he wouldn't be around ASSJ Vegeta-level at the very least, given that he kept up with his training over the years. This means Kaioshin > Picccolo ~/> ASSJ Vegeta.

As for SSJ2 Gohan(Boo-era), he was ~ Dabra, who was ~/> Perfect Cell, who was > Kaioshin.

So yeah, I think Kaioshin was probably a smidge below FPSSJ Goku(Cell Games.) This would put him comfortably beyond the likes of Piccolo, comfortably below Dabra/SSJ2 Gohan, and *should* still be enough to down Freeza with one strike.

babel10
Supreme Kai seemed about as strong as Vegeta during the Cell saga. Since he admitted to being inferior to Dabura, who was said to be as strong as Perfect Cell.

Sj_Sharp
Originally posted by Galan007
^ I think he was stronger than ASSJ Vegeta, to be able to fell Freeza with a single blow... But maybe I think higher of Freeza than most. /shrug

Wait, what Galan?
Super Vegeta would effortlessly destroy Freeza with the mere air of his punches.
Freeza was weaksauce by the time #19 and #20 showed up.

Galan007
Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
Super Vegeta would effortlessly destroy Freeza with the mere air of his punches. No, he wouldn't.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Galan007
No, he wouldn't.

Um... Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not here.

Final form Frieza <<< Mecha Frieza <<< Super Saiyan Trunks <<< Android 18 < Android 17 <<< Android 16 = Imperfect Cell <<< Semi-perfect Cell <<< Super Vegeta.

Super Vegeta would literally kill final form Frieza with a thought. Bearing ROF phuckery, that is.

Sj_Sharp

carver9
thumb up

Galan007
I don't care what Goku did to Chi-Chi, lol. That literally could not be more irrelevant.

Freeza survived a planet-busting detonation at ground zero, while he was cut in half AND almost entirely depleted of ki. That said, the "the mere air of Vegeta's punches" certainly do not generate the amount of power required to kill Freeza... Nor do "his thoughts", lol.

Those are laughable assertions to say the least.

carver9
Frieza durability is crazy. Well, the durability of beings within his tier/power level.

Frieza tells us while being at full power that if he is caught in the explosion of Namek detonation, the only thing it will do is take away some of his power.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/124813/2766609-b7.jpg

That's insane.

Time-Immemorial
Which means Goku's strength was above his planetary durability, cause he wiped the floor with him.

Sj_Sharp
Originally posted by Galan007
I don't care what Goku did to Chi-Chi, lol. That literally could not be more irrelevant.

Freeza survived a planet-busting detonation at ground zero, while he was cut in half AND almost entirely depleted of ki. That said, the "the mere air of Vegeta's punches" certainly do not generate the amount of power required to kill Freeza...

Those are laughable assertions to say the least.

Maybe you refuse to care about evidence because of your "blind love" for Freeza. After all, you yourself admitted it in your first post.

Yet the almighty Freeza, in a state infinitely superior to his self half-dead body, was cut like butter by Ssj Trunks' sword, the same sword which casually broke on #18's arm, even if used by an even stronger Ssj Trunks.

So, #18's arm > sword cut > planet explosion here?
Or, maybe, by means of their battle power and Ki, Z warriors who are ridiculously inferior to Super Vegeta's level of power can effortlessly destroy a being who took a planet explosion on his face?

Compared to the horrible one-hit-death that Freeza would suffer from the hands of Super Vegeta, the demise of Kyui on Namek, by means of an early Namek saga Vegeta, could be considered heroic and honorable.

carver9
You forgot to mention Goku tanked the same sword slash (that killed Frieza) with just his finger.

Galan007
Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
Maybe you refuse to care about evidence because of your "blind love" for Freeza. After all, you yourself admitted it in your first post.

Yet the almighty Freeza, in a state infinitely superior to his self half-dead body, was cut like butter by Ssj Trunks' sword, the same sword which casually broke on #18's arm, even if used by an even stronger Ssj Trunks.

So, #18's arm > sword cut > planet explosion here?
Or, maybe, by means of their battle power and Ki, Z warriors who are ridiculously inferior to Super Vegeta's level of power can effortlessly destroy a being who took a planet explosion on his face?

Compared to the horrible one-hit-death that Freeza would suffer from the hands of Super Vegeta, the demise of Kyui on Namek, by means of an early Namek saga Vegeta, could be considered heroic and honorable. You're getting angry for no reason. Cutting/piercing attacks are entirely different than general blast attacks. Most DBZ fans are well aware of this. That's why the Destructo Disk(a cutting attack), for example, is so effective, and has consistently allowed Krillin to step WAY beyond his weight class. IOW, characters are typically much less resistant to cutting attacks then they are to blast attacks/explosions and whatnot.

Anywho, there is ZERO proof that "the mere air of Vegeta's punches" would kill Freeza, like you said. These red herrings you're throwing around do not change this.

Also, lol @ "blind love for Freeza". ALL I'm doing is bringing up his feats--you're just ignoring them in favor of these 'air currents' that ASSJ Vegeta can theoretically generate. none

Originally posted by carver9
You forgot to mention Goku tanked the same sword slash (that killed Frieza) with just his finger. Goku explicitly noted that Trunks was NOT going all-out against him with 'Freeza-slaying' strikes.

Sj_Sharp
Originally posted by carver9
You forgot to mention Goku tanked the same sword slash (that killed Frieza) with just his finger.

I didn't mention it because it wasn't in-context with what I was saying but yes, it's a valid proof that too of how DB works.

It's true that Freeza has a very high natural durability: surely Goku and the others, nearly dead without Ki an cut in half, wouldn't even remotely be able to survive a planet explosion like Freeza did (see in fact an unconscious Chou Gohan perishing along with Earth's explosion during the Boo saga).
However, Freeza's natural durability means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things since AT, with that very example of Trunks' sword cutting Freeza but not Goku's finger or #18's arm, demonstrated to us that, with a level of battle power/Ki high enough, you can easily destroy a guy who can withstand planet explosions but not the arm of a cyborg who possesses a higher battle power than yours. It is just that easy in DB.

Supreme Kai and Super Vegeta just stand both roughly in the same ballpark, as far as battle power goes: stronger than Semi-perfect Cell (Supreme Kai's should be superior to Boo saga Piccolo) but weaker than the Full Power Super Saiyans; thus, if the Supreme Kai can end Freeza's life in one blow, a guy who made a 100% Semi-perfect Cell bend over with just two punches can as well, and with utmost, ludicrous ease at that.
Furthermore, many DBZ people, based on Supreme Kai's lol-worthy showings, statements and fears during the Boo arc, consider him to be way weaker than the level we are placing him here, and this fact strengthens even more the Super Vegeta's capability of dispatching of Freeza like a worthless fly.

carver9
Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
I didn't mention it because it wasn't in-context with what I was saying but yes, it's a valid proof that too of how DB works.

It's true that Freeza has a very high natural durability: surely Goku and the others, nearly dead without Ki an cut in half, wouldn't even remotely be able to survive a planet explosion like Freeza did (see in fact an unconscious Chou Gohan perishing along with Earth's explosion during the Boo saga).
However, Freeza's natural durability means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things since AT, with that very example of Trunks' sword cutting Freeza but not Goku's finger or #18's arm, demonstrated to us that, with a level of battle power/Ki high enough, you can easily destroy a guy who can withstand planet explosions but not the arm of a cyborg who possesses a higher battle power than yours. It is just that easy in DB.

Supreme Kai and Super Vegeta just stand both roughly in the same ballpark, as far as battle power goes: stronger than Semi-perfect Cell (Supreme Kai's should be superior to Boo saga Piccolo) but weaker than the Full Power Super Saiyans; thus, if the Supreme Kai can end Freeza's life in one blow, a guy who made a 100% Semi-perfect Cell bend over with just two punches can as well, and with utmost, ludicrous ease at that.
Furthermore, many DBZ people, based on Supreme Kai's lol-worthy showings, statements and fears during the Boo arc, consider him to be way weaker than the level we are placing him here, and this fact strengthens even more the Super Vegeta's capability of dispatching of Freeza like a worthless fly.

Answer this. The same blast that killed Gohan during the Boo saga, do you think Frieza would've survived said attack?

john allerdyce
Originally posted by Galan007
You're getting angry for no reason. Cutting/piercing attacks are entirely different than general blast attacks. Most DBZ fans are well aware of this. That's why the Destructo Disk(a cutting attack), for example, is so effective, and has consistently allowed Krillin to step WAY beyond his weight class. IOW, characters are typically much less resistant to cutting attacks then they are to blast attacks/explosions and whatnot.

Anywho, there is ZERO proof that "the mere air of Vegeta's punches" would kill Freeza, like you said. These red herrings you're throwing around do not change this.

Also, lol @ "blind love for Freeza". ALL I'm doing is bringing up his feats--you're just ignoring them in favor of these 'air currents' that ASSJ Vegeta can theoretically generate. none

Goku explicitly noted that Trunks was NOT going all-out against him with 'Freeza-slaying' strikes. Agreed. Obviously Vegeta can kill Frieza, but there's no way he's doing it with air or thoughts like these guys are saying. laughing out loud

Galan007
Originally posted by john allerdyce
Agreed. Obviously Vegeta can kill Frieza, but there's no way he's doing it with air or thoughts like these guys are saying. laughing out loud Exactly. thumb up

Of course Vegeta can kill Freeza effortlessly. I'm merely saying that he can't do it with air currents(like Sj said), or telepathy(like Gogeta said.) They're either grossly underestimating Freeza, or grossly overestimating Vegeta.

Sj_Sharp
Originally posted by Galan007
You're getting angry for no reason. Cutting/piercing attacks are entirely different than general blast attacks. Most DBZ fans are well aware of this. That's why the Destructo Disk(a cutting attack), for example, is so effective, and has consistently allowed Krillin to step WAY beyond his weight class. IOW, characters are typically much less resistant to cutting attacks then they are to blast attacks/explosions and whatnot.

Anywho, there is ZERO proof that "the mere air of Vegeta's punches" would kill Freeza, like you said. These red herrings you're throwing around do not change this.

Also, lol @ "blind love for Freeza". ALL I'm doing is bringing up his feats--you're just ignoring them in favor of these 'air currents' that ASSJ Vegeta can theoretically generate. none


I'm not angry.
It's true what you say, however (bar the OP Destructo Disk) what governs the level of power of piercing attacks is still the battle power/Ki level of the user, otherwise King Cold would have killed Trunks with his own sword or #18, who resisted to every kind of physical hit from Ssj Vegeta, would have still suffered the loss of her arm by means of Trunks' sword.

I'm honestly not the one who is ignoring feats/proof here, and I said "blind love" as a way to describe the fact that you yourself stated to consider Freeza higher than most.
Proof, like it or not, is the Goku vs Chi-Chi fight: one opponent is just much stronger than the other (despite the latter still being Roshi's level or, arguably, even stronger than that) and he can thus send the other flying casually with the air shockwaves generated by his punches (and yes, Goku could have killed her with that, as he himself was worried to have used too much strength).
Chi-Chi likely had, at that moment, a battle power (and, thus, a durability) which would let her tank the majority of attacks which happened in DB up to that point, yet Goku was capable to perform such a feat because he was much stronger than her: the gap in power is what really matters here, not who the two contenders are, and the gap in power between Super Vegeta and Freeza is even hilariously bigger than that, so the same could happen to the latter, irrespective of his durability (which is, indeed, actually nothing to Assj Vegeta's power output).

Originally posted by carver9
Answer this. The same blast that killed Gohan during the Boo saga, do you think Frieza would've survived said attack?

- The explosion of Earth? Sure thing, as he managed to survive the explosion of a likely much bigger planet.
- Kid Boo's blast? Hell no.

carver9
Originally posted by Sj_Sharp




- The explosion of Earth? Sure thing, as he managed to survive the explosion of a likely much bigger planet.
- Kid Boo's blast? Hell no.

The Z fighters haven't been put in the same situation as Frieza when it comes to withstanding a planet explosion. Frieza survived the detonation of a planets explosion, the Z fighters gets killed by the Ki of whoever is destroying said planet.

There's a difference. A huge difference. I feel 100% sure that Frieza would die from Cell Kamikaze that killed Goku and I feel safe at saying that Frieza would die from Buu Earth shattering explosion. An argument can be made that the Z fighters could survive Namek destruction though.

Galan007
Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
I'm not angry. smile
It's true what you say, however (bar the OP Destructo Disk) what still governs the level of power of piercing attacks is still the battle power/Ki level of the user, otherwise King Cold would have killed Trunks with his own sword or #18, who resisted to ever kind of physical hit and blast from Ssj Vegeta, would have still suffered the loss of her arms by means of Trunks's sword. Holding the sword doesn't mean you can automatically chop-up any opponent you come across--it isn't Excalibur, lol. Obviously a certain amount of physical strength is still required to cleave through your opponent's hide. That's why Cold couldn't harm Trunks--he simply wasn't strong enough. In the end, though, we are still talking about a physical sword-strike/cutting attack. This is VASTLY different than a general ki attack... Let alone an air current attack/kiai.

But again: characters are typically much less resistant to cutting attacks then they are to blast attacks/explosions and whatnot.

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
I'm honestly not the one who is ignoring feats/proof here, and I said "blind love" as a way to describe the fact that you yourself stated to consider Freeza higher than most.This doesn't mean I'm misrepresenting the character. I simply think it's ridiculous to believe he can be killed by an air current... But somehow that gets me labeled as a 'fanboy' or whatever. Lol.

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
Proof, like it or not, is the Goku vs Chi-Chi fight: one opponent is just much stronger than the other (despite the latter still being Roshi's level or, arguably, even stronger than that) and he can thus sent the other flying casually with the air shockwaves generated by his punches (and yes, Goku could have killed her with that, as he himself was worried to have used too much strength).
Chi-Chi had, at that moment, a battle power (and, thus, a durability) which would let her tank almost everything which happened in DB up to that point, yet Goku was capable to perform such a feat because he was much stronger than her: the gap in power is what really matters here, not who the two contenders are, and the gap in power between Super Vegeta and Freeza is even hilariously bigger than that, so the same could happen to the latter, irrespective of his durability (which is, indeed, actually nothing to Assj Vegeta's power output). No, that showing doesn't apply here. Why? Because what Goku might have been able to do to Chi-Chi is not indicative of what Vegeta might be able to do to Freeza. For starters: Chi-Chi is human, Freeza is a mutant.

Additionally, a kiai has NEVER been used to do more than send the opponent flying. Dunno what evidence you have to support the notion that it can be scaled-up enough to kill someone in Freeza's tier..?

Galan007
Originally posted by carver9
The Z fighters haven't been put in the same situation as Frieza when it comes to withstanding a planet explosion. They were put in that situation during RoF. Freeza blew up the Earth. BSSJG Vegeta died in the explosion. Freeza survived.

The rest of the Z Fighters would have also been killed, had Whis not shielded them.

carver9
Originally posted by Galan007
They were put in that situation during RoF. Freeza blew up the Earth. BSSJG Vegeta died in the explosion. Freeza survived.

The rest of the Z Fighters would have also been killed, had Whis not shielded them.

Frieza did blow up the planet and since we know they can't breath in space...

Anyways, Frieza explains to us why Goku wouldn't survive the detonation of planet Namek and it had nothing to do with the planet explosion.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114283/3156048-frieza+statement.jpg

Galan007
BoG and DBS both depict Goku surviving in space just fine. smile

RoF doesn't, though. sad

bbrem123
Originally posted by Galan007
BoG and DBS both depict Goku surviving in space just fine. smile

RoF doesn't, though. sad Toryiama logic can do what it wants!

carver9
Lol...ROF sucks. I'm glad they are remaking everything. We finally get to see the depths of the Z fighters abilities.

Sj_Sharp

Galan007
Long post that doesn't really get around to any noteworthy points.

Anyway, if you think that ASSJ Vegeta can kill Freeza with one physical strike, that's fine. Can he kill Freeza with a kiai, though? Absolutely not. No kiai that has ever been generated would be remotely capable of killing Freeza... The Goku/Chi-Chi thing is hilariously irrelevant.

Sj_Sharp
If you say so.

Originally posted by Galan007
Anyway, if you think that ASSJ Vegeta can kill Freeza with one physical strike, that's fine.

^However, at least we've made the most important step forward.

Galan007
Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
^However, at least we've made the most important step forward. Vegeta killing Freeza with a physical strike is NOT what I have been contesting--please stop trying to move the goal-posts.

AGAIN: the notion that Vegeta could kill Freeza with "air currents"(like you originally said) is what I find laughable, and utterly disagree with.

Sj_Sharp
Originally posted by Galan007
Vegeta killing Freeza with a physical strike is NOT what I have been contesting--please stop trying to move the goal-posts.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ I think he was stronger than ASSJ Vegeta, to be able to fell Freeza with a single blow... But maybe I think higher of Freeza than most. /shrug

I'm not moving the goal-post, ^ this post of yours said otherwise, it was unespected from you and that's what left me confused since I know you have high knowledge regarding DB.
Then, I furthermore stated that Vegeta could kill Freeza with the air generated by the sheer strength of his punches (given the huge gap in power between the two), and the whole conversation rotated around said statement of mine.

However it's cool, it seems we now agree on the capability of Vegeta to kill Freeza with a single blow, thing of which is ultimately fine by me. thumb up

Originally posted by Galan007
AGAIN: the notion that Vegeta could kill Freeza with "air currents"(like you originally said) is what I find laughable, and utterly disagree with.

I'm fine with you disagreeing here. smile

Galan007
Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
I furthermore stated that Vegeta could kill Freeza with the air generated by the sheer strength of his punches (given the huge gap in power between the two) ...Which is the ONLY opinion of yours that I ever contested, because it is flat-out wrong.

Had you said: "I think Vegeta could kill Freeza with a physical strike", I would have said: "okay, that's your opinion", and left it at that... But "air currents"? Lol, sorry but no.

Sj_Sharp
Originally posted by Galan007
...Which is the ONLY opinion of yours that I ever contested, because it is flat-out wrong.

Had you said: "I think Vegeta could kill Freeza with a physical strike", I would have said: "okay, that's your opinion", and left it at that... But "air currents"? Lol, sorry but no.

To me, the Goku-ChiChi example (considering how DB has always worked) is enough to say that the same could happen even between Super Vegeta and Freeza, and I honestly won't change my idea on this, however I apologise for before since I can't "force" others to firmly believe in something probably quite far-fetched like that: if you consider it to be hilarious so be it, I understand and I'll accept it. wink

carver9
Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
To me, the Goku-ChiChi example (considering how DB has always worked) is enough to say that the same could happen even between Super Vegeta and Freeza, and I honestly won't change my idea on this, however I apologise for before since I can't "force" others to firmly believe in something probably quite far-fetched like that: if you consider it to be hilarious so be it, I understand and I'll accept it. wink

Could the same happen to Goku (Vegeta air punches) if Vegeta hit him with the air of his punches (let's use Goku during the era Vegeta was at that level)?

Sj_Sharp
Originally posted by carver9
Could the same happen to Goku (Vegeta air punches) if Vegeta hit him with the air of his punches (let's use Goku during the era Vegeta was at that level)?

Do you mean Super Vegeta against Androids saga Goku pre Rosat?

carver9
Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
Do you mean Super Vegeta against Androids saga Goku pre Rosat?

Let's use both Goku and Vegeta at their Super levels.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by bbrem123
Toryiama logic can do what it wants!

Yeah... that's why Gohan goes from Mystic to SSJ1...

naurtoisbeast
Originally posted by Galan007
More powerful than Piccolo/Goten/Trunks. Weaker than Dabra.

He's probably about as powerful as Goku was during the Cell Games, imo. Originally posted by Galan007
No, he wouldn't. i think supreme kai will win here

Agusto Pinochet
Weak as balls if you ignore BoTG he's def weaker than the Base Saiyans. I don't think he's stronger than Piccolo and Goten/Trunks would destroy him easily.

Ridley_Prime
Piccolo forfeited a match against Supreme Kai in the World Tournament that was leading up to the Buu saga just after sensing his power, IIRC.

juggerman
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Piccolo forfeited a match against Supreme Kai in the World Tournament that was leading up to the Buu saga just after sensing his power, IIRC.

It wasn't his power that made Piccolo quit. Piccolo sensed who it was and quit of or respect

Time-Immemorial
To sum this up Supreme Kai is a pussy

Kento
Hes Stronger than freeza that's all that matters

naurtoisbeast
Originally posted by Galan007
More powerful than Piccolo/Goten/Trunks. Weaker than Dabra.

He's probably about as powerful as Goku was during the Cell Games, imo. Originally posted by Galan007
More powerful than Piccolo/Goten/Trunks. Weaker than Dabra.

He's probably about as powerful as Goku was during the Cell Games, imo. i think suprem kai will win here

Q99
You know, I'm not sure Toriyama himself knows. Obviously 'of some notable power,' but 'less powerful than the main characters' is clear.

Also, it's hard to tell if the Kabito fusion affected his power one bit in how he's portrayed, but really it *should've* increased it quite significantly.

naurtoisbeast
Originally posted by Galan007
^ I think he was stronger than ASSJ Vegeta, to be able to fell Freeza with a single blow... But maybe I think higher of Freeza than most. /shrug Originally posted by Galan007
^ I think he was stronger than ASSJ Vegeta, to be able to fell Freeza with a single blow... But maybe I think higher of Freeza than most. /shrug i think supreme kai will win here

naurtoisbeast
Originally posted by Galan007
More powerful than Piccolo/Goten/Trunks. Weaker than Dabra.

He's probably about as powerful as Goku was during the Cell Games, imo. Originally posted by Galan007
More powerful than Piccolo/Goten/Trunks. Weaker than Dabra.

He's probably about as powerful as Goku was during the Cell Games, imo. i think suprememe kai will win here

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