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SUPERMAN/WONDER WOMAN POST CRISIS FIGHTS

http://images-cdn.moviepilot.com/image/upload/c_fill,h_768,w_1021/t_mp_quality/1351348-superman31_mbailey-superman-vs-wonder-woman-jpeg-54375.jpg

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Encounter 1 (Mock fight)

Action Comics #600 May 1988

Context: Wonder Woman and Superman deceive Darkseid into thinking they are fighting for real

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Heroes/WonderWoman/MockFight/story

Winner: NONE

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Encounter 2 & 3

KING OF THE WORLD ARC

ROUND 1

Action Comics #753 March/April 1999

Context: The JLA confronts a mad Superman (non 100% suncharged), Wonder Woman lassoes Superman's right arm and Superman tosses her like a rag doll, later on We see Superman confronting Wonder Woman again with the help of Batman and the rest of the JLA

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/Superman%20VS--/Heroes/Wonder%20Woman/Plus%20JLA%20Squad/story

Winner: SUPERMAN

ROUND 2

Superman Man of Tomorrow #13 March/April 1999

Context: A 100% suncharged and mad Sueperman battles the JLA and the Superman family. Wonder Woman can berely restrain Superman's right arm.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/Superman%20VS--/Heroes/Wonder%20Woman/MOT%2013/story

Winner: SUPERMAN

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Encounter 4

A league of One November 2000

Context: Wonder Woman lures most members of the JLA into a trap and defeats them INDIVIDUALLY, When it comes to facing Superman she sneak attacks him, surprised by the attack Superman ask if this is some kind of test, then proceds to easily handle her. Then she acknowledges that she cannot beat Superman in combat.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Heroes/WonderWoman/LeagueOfOne/story

Winner: SUPERMAN

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Encounter 5 (Mock fight)

Superman V.2 #165 December 2000

Context: Superman and Wonder Woman spar a little bit, when Superman focus he sends her flying away even though he lacked leverage

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/Strength/RelativeStrength/Heroes/WonderWoman/Training/story

Winner: NONE

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Encounter 6

Wonder Woman V.2 #175 December 2001

Context: A brutish mind controlled faces Diana, Wonder Woman is able to pull the win not after suffering injuries and having a bloody face, Superman is pretty much in good shape at the end of the fight. While in the fight Wonder Woman acknowledges that two more blows like that will kill her and that Superman is too strong.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Heroes/WonderWoman/WW175/story

Winner: WONDER WOMAN

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Encounter 7

JLA #77 March 2003

Context: Wonder Woman's & Firestorm's memories have been taken away by the Mnemon, they try to take Superman down, Superman defuses the Mnemon while scuffling with Wonder Woman and Firestorm at the same time

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Heroes/WonderWoman/JLA77/story

Winner: SUPERMAN

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Encounter 8

JLA #96 June 2004

Context: A mind controlled Superman fights Wonder Woman, Superman snaps briefly out of the mind control thanks to Superman not wanting to fight Diana and the help of Nudge, Diana knocks Superman briefly, which allows Diana to attack the Crucifier, A mind controlled Superman then knocks Wonder Woman which allows Crucifier to almost kill Wonder Woman. Superman was mind controlled and weakened by the Crucifier's magic.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Heroes/WonderWoman/10thCircle/story

Winner: TIE

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Encounter 9

Superman v.2 #211 January 2005

Context: Superman fights what it seems a serious Wonder Woman, the demeanor on Superman's face is clear.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Heroes/WonderWoman/ForTomorrow/story

Winner: SUPERMAN

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Encounter 10 & 11

SACRIFICE ARC

ROUND 1

Adventures of Superman #642 September 2005

Context: A mind controlled Superman scuffles with Wonder Woman, fight is too brief, Superman gets away

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Heroes/WonderWoman/Sacrifice1/story

Winner: TIE

ROUND 2

Wonder Woman V.2 #219 September 2005

Context: A mind controlled Superman having hallucinations of fighting Doomsday faces Wonder Woman and in under two minutes Superman almost manages to kill Wonder Woman, but it has the "brilliant tactical idea" of tossing Wonder Woman/Doomsday back to earth to make Wonder Woman/ Doomsday suffer. After Wonder Woman wakes up from being KO'ed she manages to pull out the win, not with out suffering injuries. Superman also suffers injuries, but in the end Wonder Woman pulls the win.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Heroes/WonderWoman/Sacrifice2/story

Winner: WONDER WOMAN

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Encounter 12

Final Crisis #6 January 2009

Context: Superman KO's a mind controlled Wonder Woman with an attack that is not even directed at her.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Heroes/WonderWoman/HeatVisionOneShot/story

Winner: SUPERMAN

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12 Canon encounters total


Canon encounters results

2 Victories for Wonder Woman (note: Superman under mind control)

2 Mock fights

2 Ties (note: Superman under mind control)

6 Victories for Superman (note: Wonder Woman under mind control in 1 fight and 1 fight with Superman 100% suncharged)

This is pretty cool!
Two questions, though.
Why is this a poll? The results speak for themselves.
Are you planning any more like this? A Batman one would be interesting.

There are some who believe WW wins based on the fights WW has won, what they seem to miss is the circumstances in which this has happened.

Like you said the results speak for themselves, still they believe otherwise.

And if time allows it I will make the Batman one like you are suggesting

Also maybe GL's and CM.

Hopefully if I can't make them Delta will

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
There are some who believe WW wins based on the fights WW has won, what they seem to miss is the circumstances in which this has happened.

Like you said the results speak for themselves, still they believe otherwise.



...and they probably always will no matter what evidence you show them that proves otherwise. They'll keep bringin' up stuff that doesn't count like non-canon fights (like Injustice) and battles where Clark is severely handicapped like WW 219 because those are the only instances they have to rely on. I'm sure they'll keep ignoring Diana's own admission to Clark in A League of One too that she couldn't beat him or just keep telling themselves that she didn't really mean it. They sure believe her though when she told Clark she's "faster" than him though. LOL.

Originally posted by Star428
...and they probably always will no matter what evidence you show them that proves otherwise. They'll keep bringin' up stuff that doesn't count like non-canon fights (like Injustice) and battles where Clark is severely handicapped like WW 219 because those are the only instances they have to rely on. I'm sure they'll keep ignoring Diana's own admission to Clark in A League of One too that she couldn't beat him or just keep telling themselves that she didn't really mean it. LOL.

It is funny that even in her two wins she has always mentioned that he is too strong and she ends up in pretty bad shape, even though Superman is mentally compromised.

Exactly. But WW fanboys/fangirls love to overlook that or just dismiss it as being a "fluke" or something. LOL.

I mean, did you see what Blue posted in the "Superman weaknesses" thread? Don't remember his exact words but it was something like this:

"Superman isn't much weaker than Diana, after all". LMAO. I don't know if he actually believed that WW is stronger than Superman or if he was just trolling.

Btw props to Delta1938 for the scans

Originally posted by Star428
I mean, did you see what Blue posted in the "Superman weaknesses" thread? Don't remember his exact words but it was something like this:

"Superman isn't much weaker than Diana, after all". LMAO. I don't know if he actually believed that WW is stronger than Superman or if he was just trolling.

He does believe that. I think he also believes supergirl is stronger

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
He does believe that. I think he also believes supergirl is stronger




I guess I could understand someone mistakenly thinking that but WW? I don't understand how he or anybody else could come to that conclusion.

Originally posted by Star428
I guess I could understand someone mistakenly thinking that but WW? I don't understand how he or anybody else could come to that conclusion.

I don't know

As you can see there is a pattern on this canon fights

Superman + mind control vs Normal WW = WW barely win
Wonder Woman + mind control vs Normal Superman = Superman stomp

Normal WW vs Normal Superman = Superman win

Conclusion Superman >>> WW

Trust me, Rao. You don't have to convince me. I'm well aware of that.

Originally posted by Star428
I mean, did you see what Blue posted in the "Superman weaknesses" thread? Don't remember his exact words but it was something like this:

"Superman isn't much weaker than Diana, after all". LMAO. I don't know if he actually believed that WW is stronger than Superman or if he was just trolling.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
He does believe that. I think he also believes supergirl is stronger

Yep, he really does believe these, despite his lack of evidence. When it comes to Wonder Woman, his only argument has been taking the JLA Earth moving example, claiming Wonder Woman has been powered up since(despite no evidence to support this) and claiming Superman's been powered down, by taking the Callisto example in SUPERMAN: WORLD OF NEW KRYPTON out of context. And flat-out denied the context when shown.

His ackbasswards logic though is saying Wonder Woman is at least equal to dozens of Kryptonians together in strength, which you'd think with her greater experience and skill, she'd have mowed through them before Kandor lifted off and created New Krypton. He also thinks Martian Manhunter is stronger than Superman, which would require him becoming weaker than before his first power-up. He would know these if he actually was familiar with Superman beyond the Justice League comics, the odd guest appearance/Superman comic he reads because of Supergirl/Wonder Woman, and scans he's seen second hand.

His primary two arguments for Supergirl>Superman are what Loeb gave the impression of before having Superman tell her it's he holds back, she doesn't have his restraint, and that "she's beaten every Superman analogue she faced." Here are the Superman analogues she faced.

An Ultraman who far as I can tell, only appeared in SUPERGIRL, thus his only feats are losing twice to Supergirl(both times Kara had some help from Power Girl). He mistakenly thought this was the Ultraman who has shown to be on-par with Superman, despite the different costume and the vastly different origin(Supergirl's was an alternate Kal-El powered by yellow sunlight, Superman's is human Clark Kent who was nearly killed from a hyperspace explosion and put back together by aliens, and is powered by his universe's Kryptonite). Something that anybody who read JLA: EARTH 2 would see.

Power Boy, who wasn't fighting back(and didn't choose to fight back until the end, but she kneed him in the groin before he could attack), and his best feat was beating up Supergirl in their prior fight(which he started with a cheap shot). His next best feat was looking better than a group of C-List Titans except for Hawk.

Threeboot Mon-El, who had all of two feats, and his best was giving Supergirl a Hell of a fight despite dying of lead poisoning. Something Blue left out. Also, her win was after they fought so long, restraining him until the lead antidote was tossed into his mouth.

He has a few other arguments, but they're either pretty weak, or don't hold up under context, from someone who is actually familiar with the source.

Also, after I explained all the context to show Superman was far more effected by Kryptonite and stuff when he faced Luthor in the PUBLIC ENEMIES storyline than Supergirl/Dark Kara was when she/they faced Luthor in the early issues of SUPERGIRL, he tried to bring-up the Kryptonite poisoning retcon during the New Krypton stuff. Yet, that is a blatant double standard considering he refuses to accept any example after Sterling Gates took over her series, because he insists she was made weaker, so not the "author's intent" of the era he insists she was more powerful than him.

Also, after I've read everything from her first appearance in SUPERMAN/BATMAN, every single appearance I believe she had from then until Gates took over, and then many appearances after due to reading ALL of the New Krypton stuff, I found no evidence whatsoever to support his claim she was made weaker.

His first argument is she was originally raised on Krypton, with it being a "mega-gravity planet that dwarfs Jupiter." And that she was raised on Argo City floating in space after Gates took over. Yet, she was in her teens by the time Brainiac came, before Krypton blew-up. What he left behind enabled Argo City to be protected by a force field when Krypton blew-up. Yet, it had atmosphere and artificial gravity. There was nothing to indicate the environment wasn't similar to Krypton, for what relatively little time she would've been on it before she left when Brainiac found them and took the rest of them.

And his second argument is she was made younger, going from 16-17 to 15. I saw nothing indicating she was younger than before, and in fact during the New Krypton stuff, she was of age to choose a guild on New Krypton(science like her mother, for those interested), and on Earth, Lana talked to her about college. Which would make her more around 17-18.

Not only is there no evidence to support his arguments she was made weaker, but she's more impressive AFTER her alleged weakening than she was before.

The burden of proof consistently rests on him and he fails to provide anything at least 80% of the time I've seen him "debate." And I'm probably being generous saying he gives evidence 20% of the time. He's used the excuse that he doesn't have as easy access to scans as I do, but I've offered to post the scans for him if he gave the issue reference. He rarely ever has taken this up. Even for something you'd think would be relatively simple like actual feats or showings for Wonder Woman to back her alleged strength superiority over Superman.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
There are some who believe WW wins based on the fights WW has won, what they seem to miss is the circumstances in which this has happened.

Like you said the results speak for themselves, still they believe otherwise.

And if time allows it I will make the Batman one like you are suggesting

Also maybe GL's and CM.

Hopefully if I can't make them Delta will
Alright, thanks for responding. Look forward to more from you and/or Big Dee.

Yeah, guys? Name-dropping is really frowned upon, so I'd suggest not doing it.

More!

Very nice thread idea. Wish more like this one were done.

Those scans are wrong. A fight between the two can go either way.

Riiiiiiight. I suppose WW never admitted to him she couldn't beat him either, right?

lol.

just as we were about to sit back and relax, here comes this post...

Originally posted by carver9
Those scans are wrong. A fight between the two can go either way.

Carver loves to troll. I don't think he is really actually dumb enough to believe what he said. He just loves to try and get Superman fans riled-up with outrageous claims like that because he's butthurt that Superman is the greatest comic character of all-time instead of his beloved one-dimensional green dumb raging beast.

Ah! Two of my favorite superheroes...and two characters I love shipping.

Doesn't matter who wins, I love them both.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Ah! Two of my favorite superheroes...and two characters I love shipping.

Doesn't matter who wins, I love them both.

okkkaaayyy... so you're shipping Superman and Hulk?

Originally posted by carver9
Those scans are wrong. A fight between the two can go either way.

What's wrong with the scans wrong Carver?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Very nice thread idea. Wish more like this one were done.

Thanks

Lol I just saw 1 vote for WW. Someone is in denial and I think I have a clue who that one might be.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Lol I just saw 1 vote for WW. Someone is in denial and I think I have a clue who that one might be.
That or his IQ failed him, again.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
What's wrong with the scans wrong Carver?



He doesn't like them. That's what's wrong with them, iho.

Originally posted by dyajeep
okkkaaayyy... so you're shipping Superman and Hulk?

Oh, HECK no!!!

I think is just showing the butthurt.

This evidence with context shows that Superman dominates WW.

Now Carv... Em "he" has to come with new mental gymnastics to justify his position, pretty much what he does everyday.

No matter Car... Em dude , we still like you.