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If you had to place Naruto in a tier in DBZ, who would you say he would be equal to or slightly greater than? Who's rhe strongest person he can beat?

23rd tournament Goku and Piccolo.

Actually, he should be far more powerful than them. Plus he has Hax.

So, I think he would be higher than 23rd tourney, but below Raditz saga.

Yeah VoTE 2 Naruto should be weaker than Goku during the Raditz fight. Though he has hax so that's something right.

Eh, I don't know. I think you guys are underselling Naruto, although not by much. I think Six paths Naruto, when he fought Kaguya, would be able to probably fight on par with Raditz. They should both be pretty casual moon busters at that point, and I think their combat speeds are probably about equal.

However, end of series, or Hokage, Naruto, I would probably put around Goku level when he fought Raditz. Maybe a little bit lower, but not by much.

Even with hax though, no one that has ever existed in Naruto could compete with Saiyan saga characters, above Raditz. Like Saiyan saga Tien, Piccolo, Krillin, etc. Especially those like Nappa, Vegeta and Goku. I think we can all agree to that.

Nah I think Naruto could honestly take Nappa. Nappa was a brute with little intelligence. His best showings are being tanky.

Not that Naruto takes him 10/10 every time. But if you want an absolute best Naruto could fight I would choose baldy. Goku and above would be too much.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Nah I think Naruto could honestly take Nappa. Nappa was a brute with little intelligence. His best showings are being tanky.

Not that Naruto takes him 10/10 every time. But if you want an absolute best Naruto could fight I would choose baldy. Goku and above would be too much.

Well while that's true, Naruto isn't exactly a genius either. His best showings are distracting people with sexy jutsu, and Nappa is so much stronger, durable, and faster than him, that Nappa would LITERALLY most likely RAPE Naruto, while he was a girl from sexy jutsu, lol.

Naruto is around moon buster level in his Rikudo form, and has FTL battle speed, and light speed teleportation. Nappa can be scaled to a small planet buster, or at least an EFFORTLESS moon buster, and he has FTL++ battle speed, and can fly a lot faster than Naruto can. Plus, his durability can be easily scaled to small planet level, if not even higher. Piccolo destroyed the moon, with a simple ki blast just from pointing his hand in the sky, and even his strongest attacks didn't put a SCRATCH on Nappa.

Nappa would crush Naruto. I really can't see any way that Naruto could beat him, especially since Naruto doesn't really have any hax that let him beat someone stronger than him. If it was Sasuke against Nappa, I could see him pulling a win with genjutsu, or MAYBE amaterasu. But Naruto's showings are nowhere near Nappa's level, and he doesn't have any real hax or abilities that would let him beat Nappa here.

Although... MAYBE Naruto could pull a win, if Nappa let him hit him with a super powerful rasen-shuriken, that was made to cut him in half like the one he used on Jyuubidara. If he got to use that on Nappa, because he was cocky enough to let it hit him, and it was able to bypass his durability, then he'd obviously die, but I seriously doubt that it would be strong enough to get past his ridiculous durability.

Nappa would have lost to Krillin had Vegeta not been there. I also don't see how either fighter are FTL.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Nappa would have lost to Krillin had Vegeta not been there. I also don't see how either fighter are FTL.

Um... Yeah, but only because Krillin has an attack that can bypass almost anyone's durability, despite him being utterly weaker than them.

Both are FTL though. Naruto can teleport at light speed, and he has overwhelmed people that overwhelmed people that outsped Hiraishin. Making their combat speeds LS, and Naruto's demonstrably higher than that. His travel speed might be kind of slow, but he makes up for that with light speed teleportation, and travel speed is kind of useless in a fight, honestly.

Nappa is FTL, because even Piccolo level characters traded, dodged, and launched blasts that were FTL. That makes their combat speed FTL, and Nappa was a lot stronger/faster than all of them. To the point where the only hits they could land on him were sneak-attacks, or just him letting them hit him, because he was so tank-y.

No in Naruto nor Dbz are light speed.

Originally posted by SquallX
No in Naruto nor Dbz are light speed.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Nappa would have lost to Krillin had Vegeta not been there. I also don't see how either fighter are FTL.
So do you think Raditz/Nappa could dodge the goudama based attaks: because he has no real defense against those and its a sure win for Naruto if one of them lands.

was raditz a pb

Originally posted by carver9


Typo, it was suppose to say no one in Naruto nor Dbz are light speed.

Comparing Naruto characters to DBZ can be a bit odd; DBZ characters seem to have more powerful energy attacks, but their physical feats of strength and such seem pretty vastly inferior early on.

EX: Goku's weighted clothing in DB pales compared to kid!Lee's, but still hinders him significantly. Then fighters of his level can still turn around and sodomize islands with ki explosions.

EX2: Goku at a PL of 5,000 takes more than a day to cover a portion of the Snake Way flying. But using Kaio-Ken, he can overpower energy beams that can bust planets.

Originally posted by SquallX
Typo, it was suppose to say no one in Naruto nor Dbz are light speed.

Still

No one in either goes lightspeed, save through teleporting. Dodging someone who teleports or so on does not make one FTL.

---

One thing Naruto has going for him is clones with real power (so they will sense as really there, and who don't suffer the multiform problem of being too weak to matter)- that is to say, he can get DBZ characters to waste energy blowing them up.

DBZ characters need to be notably more powerful to win.

Do we all really have to go through this again? It was proven countless times already that DBZ characters are light speed. And Naruto characters were light speed towards the end, given the fact that the high-tiers outsped even lightspeed teleportation, Hiraishin.

Even if they might not be able to fly around at light speed all over the world, they are still FTL in their combat speed. Travel speed doesn't mean anything in a fight, if you still fight at the speed of an average human, like Superman does. Not trying to bring Superman into this, because I know how serious you wankers will get, but I'm just making a point.

They are light speed, and anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot/fangirl in denial.

Originally posted by Q99
No one in either goes lightspeed, save through teleporting. Dodging someone who teleports or so on does not make one FTL.



They might be getting close though in DBZ tbh.

Maybe BoSS Piccolo-Raditz tier or something

Bill and Whis are proven light speedsters even though they are light speedster early on in DBZ.

Kid Goku>>>Whis confirmed

Kid Goku moved at light speed. Whis and Bills are going far above light speed. There's a difference my friend.

There's also a huge difference between combat speed, and travel speed, Carver. Which explains Kid Goku going FTL in close range during a fight, and then later on, when he was stronger, taking 22 hours to fly a million kilometers.

It's also what explains Raikage being faster than lightning, but sage mode Naruto being able to blitz him in the short range during a fight.

Or Superman being hit by human characters during a fight, while he's able to fly fast enough to cross galaxies in minutes.

The idea that someone could dodge FTL attacks, but still be massively slower than a Goku who was flying over the Snake Way at Mach 10 is completely ridiculous. I mean, light is literally tens of thousands of times faster than that... Even if Goku could only move at that speed for a few seconds, he could have already crossed the Snake Way in that time if he were FTL.

I can understand a difference between travel speed and combat speed, but when the difference between them numbers in the tens of thousands of times, there's obviously something wrong. Unless some special kind of technique like Instant Transmission or Whis' staff is used, of course.

My comment at the time was supposed to be a joke but whatever. Besides its not like ftl speeds mattered much when Nappa came around, in terms of scaling for the other non-Goku Z-fighters at least.

If we're using Naruto from the Kaguya/Sasuke fight, I still think he's be below Raditz due to the implied power the latter would have from scaling off Piccolo. Though if he can land hits with his goudama then he'd stand a chance against Saiyan Saga characters.

Comparing DBZ and Naruto is just odd because of how differently the power is balanced.

For instance, DBZ up until it's later stages has really, really mediocre strength feats. Speed is a little harder to say, could be low or high depending on who you talk to or what showing you're looking at. At the same time, though, even in the earliest stages of Z energy attacks can be used on a planetary level, so... It's just balanced differently than Naruto.

An excellent example is Goku and Piccolo Jr as of the end of DB. Goku's weighted clothing extravaganza pales compared to Part 1 Lee's, but Piccolo can already dish out blasts *far* more destructive than Pain's full-power Shinra Tensei.

So Naruto characters could theoretically go a lot further in the DB chain if they can keep it to physical competitions than they could in a battle of energy attacks.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
The idea that someone could dodge FTL attacks, but still be massively slower than a Goku who was flying over the Snake Way at Mach 10 is completely ridiculous. I mean, light is literally tens of thousands of times faster than that... Even if Goku could only move at that speed for a few seconds, he could have already crossed the Snake Way in that time if he were FTL.

I can understand a difference between travel speed and combat speed, but when the difference between them numbers in the tens of thousands of times, there's obviously something wrong. Unless some special kind of technique like Instant Transmission or Whis' staff is used, of course.

The point is that Goku CAN'T go that speed for a few second. He can only move that speed for enough time to dodge an attack, which is EXACTLY what makes it combat speed. So it's easier to gauge it by distance, instead of time. Because Goku never needs to move at that speed for more than a nano-second, or even less.

Not really. I just explained it. There is also a disproportionate gap between Superman's travel speed, and combat speed. Superman can fly fast enough to cross galaxies in minutes, but he can get tagged by Human characters, even when he's bloodlusted. This is simply because of how different the two speeds are. Superman can dig in, and fly at FTL speeds, and can then maneuver around objects at those speeds, because he is able to see so far ahead of him with his super visions. He basically can't go that speed in a fight, because 1. He can't gain the acceleration he needs in a short distance, 2. He can't see far enough ahead of him to fly that fast, and 3. He can't control his own flight well enough to stop on a dime, from FTL speeds, like the Z-fighters can. This is why he has flown into so many things while flying before, like the Spectre, Red stars, and supernova's. He simply doesn't have the speed control that the Z-fighters do. It takes him time to go from 0 to 100, and conversely from 100 to 0

The Z-fighters fight to conserver their energy, because they don't have NEARLY the unlimited stamina that Superman has. Superman can bench the Earth INDEFINITELY, as long as he's being exposed to sunlight. But the Z-fighters could probably bench a lot more, with ki buffs, yet could only bench their max's for... Probably a couple hours, and that's being generous.

They have to eat food to regain energy, whereas Superman just has to be doing whatever he's doing in the sunlight.

This is why the Z-fighters will move so fast, stop on a dime, and then continue fighting. It's called combat speed, for a reason. It's the speed they fight at.

A good example of this was given, by Batman. He told Superman that he lost to Wonder Woman, and couldn't land a hit on her, because he fights a lot slower than she does. He told him, "Who's faster, Usain Bolt, or Bruce Lee? Usain Bolt can run a hell of a lot faster, but he would never be able to land a hit on Bruce Lee.".

Hope that clears it up for you.

And btw, "Whiss's staff", isn't a technique. It was proven in DBS, episode 3. It is simply him flying, while using the staff to guide him, through divination. Kind of like a navigation system. Whiss explained this, and Beerus confirmed it.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Comparing DBZ and Naruto is just odd because of how differently the power is balanced.

For instance, DBZ up until it's later stages has really, really mediocre strength feats. Speed is a little harder to say, could be low or high depending on who you talk to or what showing you're looking at. At the same time, though, even in the earliest stages of Z energy attacks can be used on a planetary level, so... It's just balanced differently than Naruto.

An excellent example is Goku and Piccolo Jr as of the end of DB. Goku's weighted clothing extravaganza pales compared to Part 1 Lee's, but Piccolo can already dish out blasts *far* more destructive than Pain's full-power Shinra Tensei.

So Naruto characters could theoretically go a lot further in the DB chain if they can keep it to physical competitions than they could in a battle of energy attacks.

There's nothing "weird" about it.

It has been explained a hundred times before.

In DBZ, you use weights to train your physical strength, in other words, increase it. And you use meditation to train your ki, in other words, increase it.

HOWEVER, ki can be used to amplify the Z-fighters physical strength. BUT they don't do so when training their physical bodies, because otherwise, they wouldn't be training their bodies, unless they decided to use weights that would make them struggle, even with the use of ki.

This is why it was so easy for Goku to sling a mountain sized Piccolo around, when a version of him millions of times stronger struggled with 400 tons. He was training one of the times, and the other, he wasn't.

A good way to gauge their strength is by the force in their ki blasts. If a character can bat away a solar system busting attack, then they can strike with a force of around 10 octillion megatons. Meaning SSJ2 tier, using ki to amp their strength, could physically LIFT, a force of around 10 DECILLION tons. Since they can bat away the same force, with a strike.

You just have to use a little common sense. There's not really any reason for Goku to go around, tugging planets out of orbit, when he easily could.

The author didn't just decide for Goku to have pt. 1 Lee level strength, and energy attacks above nearly every other fictional series that exists, lol. That would just be silly.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Comparing DBZ and Naruto is just odd because of how differently the power is balanced.

For instance, DBZ up until it's later stages has really, really mediocre strength feats. Speed is a little harder to say, could be low or high depending on who you talk to or what showing you're looking at. At the same time, though, even in the earliest stages of Z energy attacks can be used on a planetary level, so... It's just balanced differently than Naruto.

An excellent example is Goku and Piccolo Jr as of the end of DB. Goku's weighted clothing extravaganza pales compared to Part 1 Lee's, but Piccolo can already dish out blasts *far* more destructive than Pain's full-power Shinra Tensei.

So Naruto characters could theoretically go a lot further in the DB chain if they can keep it to physical competitions than they could in a battle of energy attacks.

Physically yes. Though DB Chars can amp their strength with ki. However, they can't amp it as high as their blasts. Deflecting blasts with ki is not a strength feat and as such they have no planetary strength. However, the best strength feat in DB was SSJ4 Goku supporting a part of a city. Even with the 4000x power increase due to SSJ4 he had troubles, while no one doubts that he could blasts a planet away. What is the best strength feat of a Naruto char, is it above the part-city-level of a SSJ4?

Probably not, but then again, no one here is even considering arguing Naruto vs SSJ4 Goku. The highest incarnation even being discussed is Goku as he is in the Saiyan Saga, who's millions of times weaker.

Anyway, the best Naruto strength feats? Among them would be Kaguya effortlessly ripping apart Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o with punches--keeping in mind that PS can trade mountain busting blows with Kurama/Wood Golem/such without issue. Another one is when Naruto's punches collided, the force of the impact triggered explosions that were blasting holes in a massive volcano. Then again, these could be considered energy attacks since Kaguya was extending her reach with Chakra.

Alternatively, you have Gai, who can only use h2h techniques. During the Evening Elephant, his punches produced gusts of air strong enough to smash Madara through a mile of stone. When Naruto falcon-punched Toneri in the last, the force of the impact was enough to create a small crater in the moon.

I'm not sure if they have any quantifiable lifting feats like DBZ does, though... There were those times that Naruto lifted a potentially multi-hundred ton statue, and when he threw that Whale-sized Rhino into the sky, but these are feats from a version of Naruto who's completely fodder now.

Why did you bump a 5 year dead thread to call someone dumb? There are more recent things far dumber?