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Cap/Steve Rogers vs Superman. Cap gets:

1. GL ring like Alan Scotts doesn't need to be recharged but not magical in nature.
2. 1 years training by John Stewart ( i actually think he would be a good teacher).
3. 1 years experience patrolling outerspace.
4. His indestructible shield.

Forum supes rolls through any constructs. He wins.

You nerfed Cap pretty badly, but he still punches Clarkie's head off.

How did I nerf Cap?

the goat wins of course

Originally posted by Deadline
How did I nerf Cap?

It's a common forum joke. Whenever Batman, Cap or other famous street receives an upgrade from the OP, there's always someone commenting he doesn't need it and fares better without it

Seriously now - isn't Superman somewhat depowered currently?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It's a common forum joke. Whenever Batman, Cap or other famous street receives an upgrade from the OP, there's always someone commenting he doesn't need it and fares better without it

Seriously now - isn't Superman somewhat depowered currently?

No idea was thinking of pre 52 superman actually.

Good fight if Superman wasn't insanely faster in combat. SUPERMAN could probably just take the ring from him without him knowing.

the GL ring gives him FTL reflexes

This is basically just cap with a GL ring..supes should win this, a good fight though

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It's a common forum joke. Whenever Batman, Cap or other famous street receives an upgrade from the OP, there's always someone commenting he doesn't need it and fares better without it

Seriously now - isn't Superman somewhat depowered currently?

he's like mid meta

Why is supes so depowered now?

This Cap has frankly no reason to be stronger than Hal. The shield adds essentially nothing to the equation.

Supes more often than not. GL shields have repeatedly been shown to break against the highest end bricks.

Supes wins after a good fight.

Originally posted by Deadline
the GL ring gives him FTL reflexes

http://www.littlestuffedbull.com/images/comics/batmanglring/jla2-1.jpg

sneer

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
http://www.littlestuffedbull.com/images/comics/batmanglring/jla2-1.jpg

sneer

I guess he only concentrates at sub sonic speeds.

Originally posted by Cogito
This Cap has frankly no reason to be stronger than Hal. The shield adds essentially nothing to the equation.

Cap will be stronger than Hal. Cap is Marvels 'Superman' and has more impressive feats of willpower than Superman considering that Cap isn't truly superhuman. Cap was also a cartoonist like Kyle Rayner. I'm saying Cap would be the best GL.


Originally posted by Cogito

Supes more often than not. GL shields have repeatedly been shown to break against the highest end bricks.

LOL even if his shields don't hold up he still has his shield. Even without a GL ring Cap has held his own against high end brick (Hulk). What do you think hes going to do against Superman? All Cap needs is his constructs, flight energy projection to keep him in the game and then take it h2h were he will destroy Cap.


Originally posted by DarkSaint85
http://www.littlestuffedbull.com/images/comics/batmanglring/jla2-1.jpg

sneer

They're having a conversation they're not fighting. Hal Jordon has stopped Zoom who was speed blitzing Superman.

Weren't some of you bragging about how GL defeated Krona? Well Steve is a WAY better fighter than any GL in existence. His serum affects his mind as well as his body and he will pick up the GL skills effortlessly. He also has the shield which he will use as a shearing/decapitating if need be. Sups is in BIG trouble.

On a side note, I've alway thought that Cap, BP and Namor would all be incredible GLs for different reasons.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
His serum affects his mind as well as his body and he will pick up the GL skills effortlessly.

Yea that as well, and hes had 2 years experience and taught by John Stewart. Stewart is a soldier as well so i'm thinking they could relate to each other.

superman stills wins, assuming it's not the depowered version....

^ No he doesn't. Its pre NU52 Superman. To be quite honest I'm not even sure its fair.

Originally posted by Deadline
Cap will be stronger than Hal. Cap is Marvels 'Superman' and has more impressive feats of willpower than Superman considering that Cap isn't truly superhuman. Cap was also a cartoonist like Kyle Rayner. I'm saying Cap would be the best GL.




LOL even if his shields don't hold up he still has his shield. Even without a GL ring Cap has held his own against high end brick (Hulk). What do you think hes going to do against Superman? All Cap needs is his constructs, flight energy projection to keep him in the game and then take it h2h were he will destroy Cap.




They're having a conversation they're not fighting. Hal Jordon has stopped Zoom who was speed blitzing Superman.
You want to compare Cap's willpower feats to Superman's?

Also Lulz @ Cap being better than Hal.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You want to compare Cap's willpower feats to Superman's?

Also Lulz @ Cap being better than Hal.

If you want, but you need to consider that Superman is superhuman. Cap is relatively normal in comparison.

Yea I'm betting Cap has better willpower feats and again thats considering he doesnt have any GL training.

Originally posted by Deadline
^ No he doesn't. Its pre NU52 Superman. To be quite honest I'm not even sure its fair.
Preboot Superman would stomp a hole in any GL. Heck, in a potential timeline he was fighting entire GL corps for 50 years straight and held them all off.

uhuh

Originally posted by abhilegend
Preboot Superman would stomp a hole in any GL. Heck, in a potential timeline he was fighting entire GL corps for 50 years straight and held them all off.

uhuh

He'd probably beat them don't know about stomping. Potential timeline sounds non-canon to me, bet they were just regular GLs.

Originally posted by Deadline
If you want, but you need to consider that Superman is superhuman. Cap is relatively normal in comparison.

Yea I'm betting Cap has better willpower feats and again thats considering he doesnt have any GL training.
Superman being superhuman doesn't somehow means his willpower is superhuman by default. By that token even Bizarro should be way higher in willpower. That's not how it works.

There is nobody like Hal jordan. You can argue all you want, it's nothing of value.

Heck, his willpower is on panel described as more powerful than central power battery.

Originally posted by Deadline
He'd probably beat them don't know about stomping. Potential timeline sounds non-canon to me, bet they were just regular GLs.
That just shows how far above writers view him against GLs.

Are you saying Cap is better than entire corps?

A random Kryptonian bitched both Hal and John at the same time. Superman oneshotted the same Kryptonian on the same page.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman being superhuman doesn't somehow means his willpower is superhuman by default. By that token even Bizarro should be way higher in willpower. That's not how it works.


It can do. Think knowing T-vo helps?

Originally posted by abhilegend

There is nobody like Hal jordan. You can argue all you want, it's nothing of value.

Heck, his willpower is on panel described as more powerful than central power battery.



Don't care what it says on panel I'm betting Cap has relatively better willpower feats than both Hal and Supes.


Originally posted by abhilegend
That just shows how far above writers view him against GLs.

Are you saying Cap is better than entire corps?

A random Kryptonian bitched both Hal and John at the same time. Superman oneshotted the same Kryptonian on the same page.

That sounds non-canon.

Originally posted by Deadline
It can do. Think knowing T-vo helps?



Don't care what it says on panel I'm betting Cap has relatively better willpower feats than both Hal and Supes.




That sounds non-canon.
T-vo doesn't helps for willpower.

Your betting means less than nothing. Post feats of willpower for Cap and we'll see who is better.

Totally canon. New Krypton saga.

Originally posted by abhilegend
T-vo doesn't helps for willpower.

Yes it does he used it on at least one ocassion. I'm stating the obvious.


Originally posted by abhilegend

Your betting means less than nothing. Post feats of willpower for Cap and we'll see who is better.

He had more willpower than Korvac a space god who could change time by waving his hand... and thats without GL training. GL training increases willpower.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Totally canon. New Krypton saga.

That sounds like total PIS or you're not telling the whole story Hal has been able to stop Zoom but he can't stop a random kryptonian with Johns help?

Originally posted by Deadline
Yes it does he used it on at least one ocassion. I'm stating the obvious.




He had more willpower than Korvac a space god who could change time by waving his hand... and thats without GL training. GL training increases willpower.



That sounds like total PIS or you're not telling the whole story Hal has been able to stop Zoom but he can't stop a random kryptonian with Johns help?
No, it doesn't. You are just posting random ideas with no value to them.

Korvac isn't known for willpower either. More power doesn't equals more power. Take molecule man for example. And GL training specifically does not increases willpower. It hones it.

Hal attacked Zoom from behind who shattered his chains and went on his way. That's not mentionable for anything.

Jesse Quick oneshotted Zoom. OMG!!!!!!

And are you going to post anything for Cap or is it just your random shit with nothing to prove it and then declare yourself winner?

Captain America wouldn't even be at Hal's level, nevermind Superman's.

Also, Superman's willpower feats are at least as good as Cap's.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, it doesn't. You are just posting random ideas with no value to them.


Of course it does its a mental martial art. Note mental.


Originally posted by abhilegend

Korvac isn't known for willpower either. More power doesn't equals more power. Take molecule man for example.

Yea he is, he was being tortured by the Badoon and turned into a cyborg slave. He found a way to beat them and become a space god. I'm afraid molecule man is the exception people of Korvacs powerset tend to have powerful wills by default. How many skyfather level characters do you think could easily be dominated?

Not to mention the circumstance all Korvac had to do was wave his hand and take Steve back in time and Cap still tired him out.

Originally posted by abhilegend

And GL training specifically does not increases willpower. It hones it.


You're playing with semantics, anyway it makes your willpower better.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Hal attacked Zoom from behind who shattered his chains and went on his way. That's not mentionable for anything.

Maybe he did maybe he didnt but Zoom was still moving when Hal tagged him and Zoom >>> that kryptonian.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Jesse Quick oneshotted Zoom. OMG!!!!!!

Not even sure what your point is. So Zoom had a bad day.

Originally posted by Deadline

They're having a conversation they're not fighting. Hal Jordon has stopped Zoom who was speed blitzing Superman.

Great auto-shields there. Even so, you've just said that it's possible for Batman to catch a FTL speedster by surprise...

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Great auto-shields there. Even so, you've just said that it's possible for Batman to catch a FTL speedster by surprise...

I guess it is, not sure if that's a good point.

Originally posted by Deadline
Of course it does its a mental martial art. Note mental.


So you have no proof that it increases willpower? Good.




Yea he is, he was being tortured by the Badoon and turned into a cyborg slave. He found a way to beat them and become a space god. Because he stumbled upon that power. It's not a willpower feat. That once his wife betrayed him, he committed suicide? Great willpower there. Superman tired Emperor Joker out by that criteria.

You were saying? It does not. So your point is Cap will tag Superman and Superman then punches him out? Because what's tagging Zoom has to do with fighting Superman?

Just like Hal tagging Zoom has no point here.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You want to compare Cap's willpower feats to Superman's?

Also Lulz @ Cap being better than Hal.

LOL, and how exactly can that be done when Superman is Kryptonian? Nothing he does at that level will be a pure willpower feat.

The ring doesn't give you FTL reflexes.

Superman wins, unless it's the current depowered version.

Originally posted by -Pr-
The ring doesn't give you FTL reflexes.

Superman wins, unless it's the current depowered version.

I thought people here said the ring can give you anything you want if you will it into existence?

Yea then how did Hal tag Zoom then? Going to respond to points later.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
LOL, and how exactly can that be done when Superman is Kryptonian? Nothing he does at that level will be a pure willpower feat.

Exactly.

Originally posted by Deadline
Yea then how did Hal tag Zoom then? Going to respond to points later.



Exactly.

And Cap would function as an expert GL in a couple of hours. He's make Hal look foolish, probably call him "son."

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
I thought people here said the ring can give you anything you want if you will it into existence?

That's pushing it a tad.

Originally posted by Deadline
Yea then how did Hal tag Zoom then? Going to respond to points later.



Exactly.

By telling the ring to. The same way you can tell the ring "take me to oa" and it'll do all of the work itself.

You're gonna need more than that to show that the ring makes a GL have ftl reflexes, tbh.

Originally posted by Deadline
I guess it is, not sure if that's a good point.
It's....well, if you're a Batfan, it's an excellent point, lol.

Everyone else? Re read what you just typed, lol.

Hal has FTL reaction speeds.

Yet, Batman was able to out-react him, and catch him out by surprise.

Ergo, Batman has FFTL reaction speeds.

Originally posted by Deadline
Yea then how did Hal tag Zoom then? Going to respond to points later.



Exactly.

Low showing? Unless you're going to say Hal is faster than Flash in reflex speed. Which, apparently, you are.

But Batman has reaction speeds faster than Hal!

Therefore, in the JLA, Batman is > all in reaction speed.

Originally posted by -Pr-




By telling the ring to. The same way you can tell the ring "take me to oa" and it'll do all of the work itself.

You're gonna need more than that to show that the ring makes a GL have ftl reflexes, tbh.

Read the feat again he didn't tell the ring to do squat.

Originally posted by Deadline
Read the feat again he didn't tell the ring to do squat.

He doesn't need to say it out loud. The ring responds to mental commands.

Trying to claim that one feat gives GLs FTL reflexes when the average shows far less, isn't exactly a solid foundation.

Originally posted by Deadline
Read the feat again he didn't tell the ring to do squat.

Yeah, doesn't sound right to me. I doubt every writer sees it the same way.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Jesse Quick oneshotted Zoom. OMG!!!!!!

Originally posted by Deadline
Not even sure what your point is. So Zoom had a bad day.

Funny enough, he intended to kill her and Damage. Far as I know, it was one of the few he's not all, "I'MTRYINGTOMAKEYOUBETTERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!" moments.

Also, Superman wins.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So you have no proof that it increases willpower? Good.




Yea he is, he was being tortured by the Badoon and turned into a cyborg slave. He found a way to beat them and become a space god. Because he stumbled upon that power. It's not a willpower feat. That once his wife betrayed him, he committed suicide? Great willpower there. Superman tired Emperor Joker out by that criteria.

You were saying? It does not. So your point is Cap will tag Superman and Superman then punches him out? Because what's tagging Zoom has to do with fighting Superman?

Just like Hal tagging Zoom has no point here.

Look you're forgetting that Korvac tricked a being who is sub-skyfather level and has superhuman intelligence and an advanced alien race. Mxy is just an average intelligence being with vast powers. The rest of your post is trollish.



Originally posted by -Pr-
He doesn't need to say it out loud. The ring responds to mental commands.


Great then lets assume every time a GL does something its a mental command to the ring.

Originally posted by -Pr-

Trying to claim that one feat gives GLs FTL reflexes when the average shows far less, isn't exactly a solid foundation.

Kyle has fought Flash has been able to grab him, and theres this.

http://s160.photobucket.com/user/EndlessMike9/media/Green%20Lantern/johnspeed.jpg.html

The problem with "GL rings give them FTL reflexes" is no they have to actually amp themselves. If Captain America was fast enough to amp himself in time then..he wouldn't actually need to bother amping himself because he'd already be able to out react Superman *waits for a 'they fly fast in space' argument*

Originally posted by Deadline
Kyle has fought Flash has been able to grab him, and theres this.

http://s160.photobucket.com/user/EndlessMike9/media/Green%20Lantern/johnspeed.jpg.html

Have you read that comic? Or at least the entire fight?

^ Well anyway Kyle has grabbed Flash in a fight so theres that as well. No I haven't read the comics I haven't read every comic in existance.

Originally posted by Deadline
^ Well anyway Kyle has grabbed Flash in a fight so theres that as well. No I haven't read the comics I haven't read every comic in existance.

I don't expect you to read every comic ever, but in all honesty, I don't think the full scene helps your case, either for speed or how a GL fares against Superman.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Teams/Sacrifice/th_AOS642-PG16.jpg http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Teams/Sacrifice/th_AOS642-PG17.jpg http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Teams/Sacrifice/th_AOS642-PG18-19.jpg http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Teams/Sacrifice/th_AOS642-PG20.jpg

Make sure to read Superman's narration in the third scan(pages 18-19) carefully.

Originally posted by Delta1938
I don't expect you to read every comic ever, but in all honesty, I don't think the full scene helps your case, either for speed or how a GL fares against Superman.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Teams/Sacrifice/th_AOS642-PG16.jpg http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Teams/Sacrifice/th_AOS642-PG17.jpg http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Teams/Sacrifice/th_AOS642-PG18-19.jpg http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Teams/Sacrifice/th_AOS642-PG20.jpg

Make sure to read Superman's narration in the third scan(pages 18-19) carefully.

You know what I'm not so sure. Are you trying to argue that Superman is faster than both Flash and John Stewart? That doesn't make any sense fact is eventhough I wouldnt argue that John is faster than the Flash in general doesn't change the fact in this instance he was and hes still very fast. The reason why he hesistated was obvoulsy because he thought it would be the best thing to do otherwise he would have just blitzed them.

Still doesn't change the fact that Hal has grabbed Zoom and Kyle has been able to grab Flash in a fight. Oh and as far as Im concerned Steve would be the best GL there is period and he also has his indestructible shield, h2h skills etc. Supes goes down hard.

Also seems like a bit of low showing for John just to get koed like that, based on what I've seen him do he should do better.

Originally posted by Deadline
You know what I'm not so sure. Are you trying to argue that Superman is faster than both Flash and John Stewart? That doesn't make any sense fact is eventhough I wouldnt argue that John is faster than the Flash in general doesn't change the fact in this instance he was and hes still very fast. The reason why he hesistated was obvoulsy because he thought it would be the best thing to do otherwise he would have just blitzed them.

So you're trying to argue John is faster than Superman because he reacted faster than Wally, but that John isn't faster than Wally, but still faster than Superman even though Superman attacked faster than Wally could react(or at least do anything)?

Originally posted by Deadline
Still doesn't change the fact that Hal has grabbed Zoom and Kyle has been able to grab Flash in a fight.

Hal grabbed Zoom from behind when Zoom was standing in one spot. Not the best example. And have scan/issue reference for Kyle grabbing Flash? Also, unless you think it being a different Power Ring makes a difference, Superman treated Sinestro like this.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/PowerRingWielders/SinestroSA/th_SILVER_AGE_80-PAGE_GIANT1-PG14.jpg http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/PowerRingWielders/SinestroSA/th_SILVER_AGE_80-PAGE_GIANT1-PG03.jpg http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/PowerRingWielders/SinestroSA/th_SILVER_AGE_80-PAGE_GIANT1-PG04.jpg http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/PowerRingWielders/SinestroSA/th_SILVER_AGE_80-PAGE_GIANT1-PG04.jpg

Sinestro got away, because he attacked while Superman was distracted. And Superman initially couldn't escape without hurting the sailors. Since this is from the SILVER AGE storyline(not from the Silver Age, but named after that as it was an homage in style; it's definitely canon), this would take place with a rookie Superman against the veteran ring slinger Sinestro. And hurts the argument about the Power Rings giving the reflexes you're arguing.

Originally posted by Deadline
Oh and as far as Im concerned Steve would be the best GL there is period and he also has his indestructible shield, h2h skills etc. Supes goes down hard.

Honestly, that's a circular argument and means little. The burden of proof is on you to prove Cap will perform like you're arguing. You really made a topic that's hard for you to do that with due to the rules on GLs.

Originally posted by Deadline
Also seems like a bit of low showing for John just to get koed like that, based on what I've seen him do he should do better.

So, another circular argument.

Hal Jordan being able to "grab" Zoom is pure PIS really, standard stuff that speedsters have to deal with. The speed gap between a GL and Zoom is monumental.

For pre 52 we've also had Kyle Rayner puking from being carried at super speed by the Flash, where he even specifically notes that it is way different then flying fast in space.

Originally posted by Surtur
Hal Jordan being able to "grab" Zoom is pure PIS really, standard stuff that speedsters have to deal with. The speed gap between a GL and Zoom is monumental.

Zoom was in one spot focused on others when Hal came behind him.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Zoom was in one spot focused on others when Hal came behind him.

Even then though...Hal would of been like a statue to him.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Zoom was in one spot focused on others when Hal came behind him.

Stop trying to twist the feat around and trying to belittle it. He wasn't standing still like you said read it again. Not even sure what you mean by on one spot, he was running around WW and was strangling WW with her own lasso before Hal intervened. Will respond to other points later but had to address that nonsense.

Originally posted by Surtur
Even then though...Hal would of been like a statue to him.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comics.jpg

Originally posted by Deadline
Stop trying to twist the feat around and trying to belittle it. He wasn't standing still like you said read it again. Not even sure what you mean by on one spot, he was running around WW and was strangling WW with her own lasso before Hal intervened. Will respond to other points later but had to address that nonsense.

I mixed up the scene, but it doesn't change the fact that you're blowing it out of proportion. As for your reaction, I really don't think you're going to do very well in your own thread.

Originally posted by Deadline
Great then lets assume every time a GL does something its a mental command to the ring.

Well... Yeah. That's literally around 95% of the time how the ring is used.

Originally posted by Delta1938
http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comics.jpg



I mixed up the scene, but it doesn't change the fact that you're blowing it out of proportion. As for your reaction, I really don't think you're going to do very well in your own thread.



Yes, you did.

http://www.beforethecross.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/wavewhiteflag.jpg

Originally posted by Deadline


Look you're forgetting that Korvac tricked a being who is sub-skyfather level and has superhuman intelligence and an advanced alien race. Mxy is just an average intelligence being with vast powers. The rest of your post is trollish.


You're just making shit up at this point. It wasn't Mxy, it was Joker.

And Korvac tricking or intelligence or anything doesn't do shit for willpower.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You're just making shit up at this point. It wasn't Mxy, it was Joker.

And Korvac tricking or intelligence or anything doesn't do shit for willpower.




Looks like his second point went over your head.

Originally posted by Deadline
Stop trying to twist the feat around and trying to belittle it. He wasn't standing still like you said read it again. Not even sure what you mean by on one spot, he was running around WW and was strangling WW with her own lasso before Hal intervened. Will respond to other points later but had to address that nonsense.

So, that's it then?

Hal > Zoom, who is >> Flash.

Batman > Hal>Zoom>>Flash??

Sweet. This has been a good week for Batman.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Yes, you did.

http://www.beforethecross.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/wavewhiteflag.jpg

It seems your meltdown in the other thread has compromised your judgement more than usual.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So, that's it then?

Hal > Zoom, who is >> Flash.

Batman > Hal>Zoom>>Flash??

Sweet. This has been a good week for Batman.

Batman fans be like--

http://media.makeameme.org/created/Today-was-a.jpg

Meh..mxy is overrated.

Again, Hal being able to tag Zoom in any kind of scenario other then Zoom wanting to be tagged is not really a sign of "oh wow Hal is so fast" but "oh wow Zoom got jobbed out". Strange enough Hal Jordan happens to...not have a history of various speed feats showing a level of speed anywhere near Wally West, let alone Zoom. Which you think he'd have if he could legitimately tag Zoom. It's almost as if it was just comics being comics and not a sign of massive FTL reflexes.

Originally posted by Genii96
Meh..mxy is overrated.

Highly. He's be Impossible Man Jr. in Marvel.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Highly. He's be Impossible Man Jr. in Marvel.

I think it's the other way around actually, Mxy came first.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Highly. He's be Impossible Man Jr. in Marvel.

And what has Impossible Man done?

Originally posted by Delta1938
And what has Impossible Man done?


Not a whole lotta shit (which was the point), look it up. Look up the Superman/ Surfer crossover while you are at it.

hysterical

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Not a whole lotta shit (which was the point), look it up. Look up the Superman/ Surfer crossover while you are at it.

So basically you said something stupid? I would've saved myself a couple posts if I assumed the norm.

Originally posted by Delta1938
So basically you said something stupid? I would've saved myself a couple posts if I assumed the norm.



I made a very simple statement that stupid people may find complexed. Mxy wouldn't be shit im Marvel. Hope that helps, but probably not in your case.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
I made a very simple statement that stupid people may find complexed. Mxy wouldn't be shit im Marvel. Hope that helps, but probably not in your case.

It's not that what you said is complex, it's that it's retarded. Don't worry, I understand.

Originally posted by Delta1938
It's not that what you said is complex, it's that it's retarded. Don't worry, I understand.

Right, but a statement can't be retarded, so no you don't understand unless you are referring to troll logic. Anyway, get back on topic.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Right, but a statement can't be retarded, so no you don't understand unless you are referring to troll logic. Anyway, get back on topic.

I understand completely. You're the one who suffers from Dunning-Kruger Syndrome, badly. So you don't understand your situation.

I'm just using you to kill time until someone who can actually debate comes and tries to argue against how Superman wins.

Originally posted by Delta1938
I understand completely. You're the one who suffers from Dunning-Kruger Syndrome, badly. So you don't understand your situation.

I'm just using you to kill time until someone who can actually debate comes and tries to argue against how Superman wins.

So you don't have much of a life, got it. A grown man waiting around to protect a fictional character, wow. And by the way, ya boy loses.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
So you don't have a life, got it. And by the way, ya boy loses.

Irony rapes you so hard. And you think Superman loses? Going to actually debate?

Shit, this thread is a meltdowner.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Irony rapes you so hard. And you think Superman loses? Going to actually debate?


I thought you were having the time of your pitiful life talking shit to me?

I already spoke to the topic dumb ass. Cap would split Clarks ass down the middle with his shield and you'd bare witness.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
I thought you were having the time of your pitiful life talking shit to me?

I already spoke to the topic dumb ass.

Pointing-out reality isn't talking shit.

So basically you have nothing else to say on the topic and are sticking around solely to troll, and say I don't have a life? Yeah, irony tore you up.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Pointing-out reality isn't talking shit.

So basically you have nothing else to say on the topic and are sticking around solely to troll, and say I don't have a life? Yeah, irony tore you up.


So in other words, "You go first!!"

You started ****ing with me a couple of days ago out of the blue so stop copping pleas now.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
So in other words, "You go first!!"

You started ****ing with me a couple of days ago out of the blue so stop copping pleas now.

When you're not having your meltdowns, you're a perfect example of ignorance is bliss.

Who said your piss poor comebacks bother me? I'm just pointing-out how hilarious it is that you're saying I don't have a life, when your sole purpose has been to troll, when you're not having a meltdown.

Do you actually want to debate the topic? If so, I can drop the hostility, as long as you do.

Originally posted by Delta1938
When you're not having your meltdowns, you're a perfect example of ignorance is bliss.

Who said your piss poor comebacks bother me? I'm just pointing-out how hilarious it is that you're saying I don't have a life, when your sole purpose has been to troll, when you're not having a meltdown.

Do you actually want to debate the topic? If so, I can drop the hostility, as long as you do.

Translation: "You go first!!"

GTFOH..... Let me tell you something to your troll ass face. I didn't know you from Adam a couple of days ago until you fired off your mouth as I was engaged with another poster. Now, it is what it is.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Translation: "You go first!!"

GTFOH..... Let me tell you something to your troll ass face. I didn't know you from Adam a couple of days ago until you fired off your mouth as I was engaged with another poster. Now, it is what it is.

"Troll ass face?" Your meltdowns aren't clever.

Originally posted by Delta1938
So you're trying to argue John is faster than Superman because he reacted faster than Wally, but that John isn't faster than Wally, but still faster than Superman even though Superman attacked faster than Wally could react(or at least do anything)?

Nope scans don't prove that he's faster than Supes or Flash it just proves John could potentially deal with Supes speed and it's not an 'auto' command. Can't be really bothered to break it down to you please figure it out.


Originally posted by Delta1938

Hal grabbed Zoom from behind when Zoom was standing in one spot. Not the best example. And have scan/issue reference for Kyle grabbing Flash? Also, unless you think it being a different Power Ring makes a difference, Superman treated Sinestro like this.

When you learn to read scans properly then I will right now can't be bothered.

Originally posted by Delta1938

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/PowerRingWielders/SinestroSA/th_SILVER_AGE_80-PAGE_GIANT1-PG14.jpg http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/PowerRingWielders/SinestroSA/th_SILVER_AGE_80-PAGE_GIANT1-PG03.jpg http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/PowerRingWielders/SinestroSA/th_SILVER_AGE_80-PAGE_GIANT1-PG04.jpg http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/PowerRingWielders/SinestroSA/th_SILVER_AGE_80-PAGE_GIANT1-PG04.jpg

Sinestro got away, because he attacked while Superman was distracted. And Superman initially couldn't escape without hurting the sailors. Since this is from the SILVER AGE storyline(not from the Silver Age, but named after that as it was an homage in style; it's definitely canon), this would take place with a rookie Superman against the veteran ring slinger Sinestro. And hurts the argument about the Power Rings giving the reflexes you're arguing.



That's just one incident you got comics that's been going on for decades. You're going to have scans that show GLs reacting slow or vice verse. Waste of time.

Originally posted by Delta1938

Honestly, that's a circular argument and means little. The burden of proof is on you to prove Cap will perform like you're arguing. You really made a topic that's hard for you to do that with due to the rules on GLs.




Beyonder took Steve Rogers form, if Cap had a weak will Beyonder wouldn't have done it. Cap beat Nightmare in his own realm that's like beating The Beyonder and he's not truly superhuman. Beat that.

Cap beats the GLs and Supes compartively in willpower all day long.


Originally posted by -Pr-
Well... Yeah. That's literally around 95% of the time how the ring is used.

Fantastic show me scans that indicate this.

Originally posted by Deadline
Nope scans don't prove that he's faster than Supes or Flash it just proves John could potentially deal with Supes speed and it's not an 'auto' command. Can't be really bothered to break it down to you please figure it out.




When you learn to read scans properly then I will right now can't be bothered.




That's just one incident you got comics that's been going on for decades. You're going to have scans that show GLs reacting slow or vice verse. Waste of time.



Beyonder took Steve Rogers form, if Cap had a weak will Beyonder wouldn't have done it. Cap beat Nightmare in his own realm that's like beating The Beyonder and he's not truly superhuman. Beat that.

Cap beats the GLs and Supes compartively in willpower all day long.




Fantastic show me scans that indicate this.
Got to say this is one of the most atrocious reasoning I've ever seen.

"I dismiss Superman blitzing sinestro because it's one time thing. "

" Beyonder chose Cap's body because his will was strong."

"Cap beat Nightmare which is like beating Beyonder without any scans or issue number. "

It's like talking to h1 while he is high.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Got to say this is one of the most atrocious reasoning I've ever seen.

"I dismiss Superman blitzing sinestro because it's one time thing. "

Missing the point. I'm not really dismissing it the point is characters have different feats you need to take them all as a whole not just one.

Originally posted by abhilegend

" Beyonder chose Cap's body because his will was strong."

He didn't?
Originally posted by abhilegend

"Cap beat Nightmare which is like beating Beyonder without any scans or issue number. "



I could if I wanted to, so you got scans or issues numbers for every feat? And yes there were circumstances to the feat still very very impressive. If it helps its The American Nightmare arc think it was 1999. Don't have exact number to hand.

Originally posted by Deadline
Missing the point. I'm not really dismissing it the point is characters have different feats you need to take them all as a whole not just one.


Of course you're dismissing it.

Any other questions? Yes, he didn't.

Move along.

So you don't have the issue number or scans and it's out of context to boot. Good, good.

LOL@Cap having stronger willpower than Superman. I needed a good laugh. Thanks.

Originally posted by Star428
LOL@Cap having stronger willpower than Superman. I needed a good laugh. Thanks.

Hw out wills him by a long shot, lay off the drugs. He'd easily be the greatest GL in history.

Originally posted by Deadline
You know what I'm not so sure. Are you trying to argue that Superman is faster than both Flash and John Stewart? That doesn't make any sense fact is eventhough I wouldnt argue that John is faster than the Flash in general doesn't change the fact in this instance he was and hes still very fast. The reason why he hesistated was obvoulsy because he thought it would be the best thing to do otherwise he would have just blitzed them.

Still doesn't change the fact that Hal has grabbed Zoom and Kyle has been able to grab Flash in a fight. Oh and as far as Im concerned Steve would be the best GL there is period and he also has his indestructible shield, h2h skills etc. Supes goes down hard.





Someone's going down hard in this fight alright but it sure ain't Superman.

Originally posted by Deadline
Nope scans don't prove that he's faster than Supes or Flash it just proves John could potentially deal with Supes speed and it's not an 'auto' command. Can't be really bothered to break it down to you please figure it out.

So John encasing Superman in a shield while Superman was going after Wally and Superman's own narration showing he was setting things up(making it questionable at best that it's a legit speed feat for John even with the distraction) proves.....what, exactly?


Originally posted by Deadline
When you learn to read scans properly then I will right now can't be bothered.

First, I was going off memory and thought it was Superman Zoom was hitting when Hal came in, so it's not that I need to learn to read scans. Second, you clearly can't be bothered with providing scans, at all. Just make claims. I could post a lot more, but you're not making it worth the effort.

Originally posted by Deadline
That's just one incident you got comics that's been going on for decades. You're going to have scans that show GLs reacting slow or vice verse. Waste of time.

One incident is just as much as you've shown. And considering the context of both my example and yours, it doesn't help your case.

Originally posted by Deadline
Beyonder took Steve Rogers form, if Cap had a weak will Beyonder wouldn't have done it.

.....are you arguing that genetics equate to willpower?

Originally posted by Deadline
Cap beat Nightmare in his own realm that's like beating The Beyonder and he's not truly superhuman. Beat that.

Cap beats the GLs and Supes compartively in willpower all day long.

Trying to dismiss Superman's feats of willpower because he's not a powerless human is actually really, REALLY ****ing stupid. It gives you an excuse to dismiss anything Superman's done because "Cap is human!!" while you're blissfully unaware that it doesn't actually matter because regardless of your opinion on Cap's being better because "he's not superhuman" it doesn't change if Superman's are simply better. That's like trying to argue Superman isn't stronger than Captain America because "Captain America is human therefore his strength feats are better!!"

So, are you actually going to post anything to back your claims, or are you going to continue to make arguments based on nothing but speculation and assumption?

Originally posted by Deadline
Fantastic show me scans that indicate this.

Wait... How do you not know this? It's one of the first things Lanterns are told about the ring.

Or do you really think the ring has to be vocally told what to do?

Have you never watched any of the cartoons? Haven't seen the movie?

==========

Delta and Blue, tone down the personal stuff.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So, that's it then?

Hal > Zoom, who is >> Flash.

Batman > Hal>Zoom>>Flash??

Sweet. This has been a good week for Batman.

Still waiting on this.

Originally posted by -Pr-


==========

Delta and Blue, tone down the personal stuff.

Already working on that.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So, that's it then?

Hal > Zoom, who is >> Flash.

Batman > Hal>Zoom>>Flash??

Sweet. This has been a good week for Batman.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Still waiting on this.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Batman fans be like--

http://media.makeameme.org/created/Today-was-a.jpg

Originally posted by Delta1938
So John encasing Superman in a shield while Superman was going after Wally and Superman's own narration showing he was setting things up(making it questionable at best that it's a legit speed feat for John even with the distraction) proves.....what, exactly?


You are missing the point entirely. It's not about Superman its the Flash. The point is they both went for the same target and Johns attack landed first. So what that means is that in this situation both John and Flash have similar attack speeds, and we know that The Flash is faster than Superman which therefore means we could extrapolate that John could handle Superman's speed with that feat.

Just because Superman set things up doesn't disprove that John could handle his speed. John didn't really get beaten by Supes speed he got beaten because of blunt force trauma. Cap has setup Spiderman before doesn't mean Cap is as fast or faster than Spiderman.


Also I'm not arguing that John is faster than Flash or even Superman as usual we have to look at feats in general. Just because John seemed to be faster doesn't mean that it would happen all the time.

Why aren't you mentioning that both John and Flash were under mind control?

Originally posted by Delta1938

First, I was going off memory and thought it was Superman Zoom was hitting when Hal came in, so it's not that I need to learn to read scans. Second, you clearly can't be bothered with providing scans, at all. Just make claims. I could post a lot more, but you're not making it worth the effort.



One incident is just as much as you've shown. And considering the context of both my example and yours, it doesn't help your case.


and I was going off memory as well and you still got it wrong. Who he was fighting is irrelevant the point is you said he was standing still. No I could still say you can't read scans you're still trying to argue that the scans with John and Superman don't prove anything and I could throw a hissy fit about you not mentioning that they were under mind control. The fact is it looks llike you didn't read it properly but you telling to me to read it properly. That sort of thing tends to make me less generous.

I don't care wether you get scans or you got info from you're memory wrong nobodies perfect but you're getting things wrong and giving me attitude. I don't like that.


Originally posted by Delta1938

.....are you arguing that genetics equate to willpower?



Trying to dismiss Superman's feats of willpower because he's not a powerless human is actually really, REALLY ****ing stupid. It gives you an excuse to dismiss anything Superman's done because "Cap is human!!" while you're blissfully unaware that it doesn't actually matter because regardless of your opinion on Cap's being better because "he's not superhuman" it doesn't change if Superman's are simply better. That's like trying to argue Superman isn't stronger than Captain America because "Captain America is human therefore his strength feats are better!!"


I didn't elaborate maybe that's the problem. I'm not dismissing Superman's will power feats because he's superhuman I'm arguing that you have to take that into consideration when dealing with somebody who's that powerful. I think even if Superman was human he would still have great willpower but being in superhuman form would make a difference.

There are loads of examples in comics of characters dealing with physical problems and then having it effect them mentally. A good example is Daredevil what he went through during and prior to the inferno arc physically made it hard for him to operate his radar sense. If he had class 100 strength and durability this wouldn't have happened.

Does it mean that characters who are more powerful than other characters always have stronger wills no it doesn't, but when dealing with characters that are at a certain level and have a certain powerset this does usually tend to be the case.

Superman doesn't just have class 100 strength and durability but he has FTL reflexes superhuman sense and can sometimes calculate loads of information in nano seconds. To make matters worse he knows T-Vo, it's a mental martial art for crying out loud! This is why characters who have psionic power or practice magic as a mental discipline tend to have greater wills than those who don't. So yes Superman's powerset will affect his willpower.

Lets move into GLs. Their powerset is all to do with willpower they go through training once they become a GL in order to make it stronger. The point is this Cap already has great willpower feats without GL Training and without superpowers what do you think he's gonna be like after 2 years???


Here's a comparable example Alan Scott was fighting Mordru. Mordru decided to hit Alan Scott with a spell of making a vibration inside his inner ear so he couldn't concentrate, that took Alan Scott out of the fight. It's important to note that as Mordru stated it was a simple spell, the word he used to describe it was fragile.

Lets compare this to what happened to Cap. Got got into a fight with an upgraded Spiderman who had a newly designed suit. Then recieved a nasty beating from an angry Iron Man in Extremis armour, he then gets hit by a sonic weapon which was designed to shut down the brain. Not only that Cap seemed to be doing far better than Alan Scott because he was still standing and looked like he wanted to fight.

Caps feat >>> Alans

Alan Scotts willpower makes him one of the most powerful beings in the universe but despite that Cap has already got one better feat. Cap would be the strongest GL ever.


Originally posted by Delta1938

So, are you actually going to post anything to back your claims, or are you going to continue to make arguments based on nothing but speculation and assumption?

You need to calm down.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Wait... How do you not know this? It's one of the first things Lanterns are told about the ring.

Or do you really think the ring has to be vocally told what to do?

Have you never watched any of the cartoons? Haven't seen the movie?


Pr I'm refering to GLs thking of something and letting it happen opposed to telling the ring what to do verbal or mental. In other words you can tell the ring what do or you can will it yourself to happen.

Originally posted by Deadline
You are missing the point entirely. It's not about Superman its the Flash. The point is they both went for the same target and Johns attack landed first. So what that means is that in this situation both John and Flash have similar attack speeds, and we know that The Flash is faster than Superman which therefore means we could extrapolate that John could handle Superman's speed with that feat.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Speed/Miscellaneous/ProfessorZoom

Professor Zoom is faster than Wally. Superman not only tagged him, but Professor Zoom said Superman's speed rivals his own. Going by your logic, Superman is faster than Wally and therefore would be faster than John.

Originally posted by Deadline
Just because Superman set things up doesn't disprove that John could handle his speed. John didn't really get beaten by Supes speed he got beaten because of blunt force trauma. Cap has setup Spiderman before doesn't mean Cap is as fast or faster than Spiderman.

Setting things up would mean it's an assumption that John was fast enough to handle him. And I was referring to Superman was too fast for WALLY to do anything. Wally was fast enough to know what he was doing, but not fast enough to do anything about it. And if you try to argue the force field John put around Superman, unless you can prove Wally's speed steal could not work despite that, it's a circular argument. And Superman busting right through that field and KOing John doesn't help your argument.

Originally posted by Deadline
Also I'm not arguing that John is faster than Flash or even Superman as usual we have to look at feats in general. Just because John seemed to be faster doesn't mean that it would happen all the time.

You're bringing up stuff that's questionable at best. Batman has caught Impulse running around in Speed Force ADD mode. Does that mean he could keep-up with Jay or Supes?

Originally posted by Deadline
Why aren't you mentioning that both John and Flash were under mind control?

You'll find out!!

Originally posted by Deadline
and I was going off memory as well and you still got it wrong. Who he was fighting is irrelevant the point is you said he was standing still. No I could still say you can't read scans you're still trying to argue that the scans with John and Superman don't prove anything and I could throw a hissy fit about you not mentioning that they were under mind control. The fact is it looks llike you didn't read it properly but you telling to me to read it properly. That sort of thing tends to make me less generous.

I don't care wether you get scans or you got info from you're memory wrong nobodies perfect but you're getting things wrong and giving me attitude. I don't like that.


I didn't say "standing still." Zoom wasn't running in circles around Superman like he was with Wonder Woman, and I mixed them up. It's still being overblown.

But about me not bringing-up that John and Wally were mind controlled. You know why I didn't bring it up? It's because they weren't. Long story short, Maxwell Lord had telepathic influence on Superman, and was making Superman paranoid and come to the conclusion that THEY were the ones under telepathic control, not him.

I know this because I actually read the comic. You made the assumption because you hadn't read about it. And you ***** that I need to "read it properly." Don't YOU look like a dumbass right now? Karma's a *****.

Originally posted by Deadline
I didn't elaborate maybe that's the problem. I'm not dismissing Superman's will power feats because he's superhuman I'm arguing that you have to take that into consideration when dealing with somebody who's that powerful. I think even if Superman was human he would still have great willpower but being in superhuman form would make a difference.

There are loads of examples in comics of characters dealing with physical problems and then having it effect them mentally. A good example is Daredevil what he went through during and prior to the inferno arc physically made it hard for him to operate his radar sense. If he had class 100 strength and durability this wouldn't have happened.

Does it mean that characters who are more powerful than other characters always have stronger wills no it doesn't, but when dealing with characters that are at a certain level and have a certain powerset this does usually tend to be the case.

Superman doesn't just have class 100 strength and durability but he has FTL reflexes superhuman sense and can sometimes calculate loads of information in nano seconds. To make matters worse he knows T-Vo, it's a mental martial art for crying out loud! This is why characters who have psionic power or practice magic as a mental discipline tend to have greater wills than those who don't. So yes Superman's powerset will affect his willpower.

Lets move into GLs. Their powerset is all to do with willpower they go through training once they become a GL in order to make it stronger. The point is this Cap already has great willpower feats without GL Training and without superpowers what do you think he's gonna be like after 2 years???


Here's a comparable example Alan Scott was fighting Mordru. Mordru decided to hit Alan Scott with a spell of making a vibration inside his inner ear so he couldn't concentrate, that took Alan Scott out of the fight. It's important to note that as Mordru stated it was a simple spell, the word he used to describe it was fragile.

Lets compare this to what happened to Cap. Got got into a fight with an upgraded Spiderman who had a newly designed suit. Then recieved a nasty beating from an angry Iron Man in Extremis armour, he then gets hit by a sonic weapon which was designed to shut down the brain. Not only that Cap seemed to be doing far better than Alan Scott because he was still standing and looked like he wanted to fight.

Caps feat >>> Alans

Alan Scotts willpower makes him one of the most powerful beings in the universe but despite that Cap has already got one better feat. Cap would be the strongest GL ever.

All of this is irrelevant because I'm referring to things like Superman overcoming a death god's, well, "death power" for lack of a better term, or other examples like that, not some will overcoming physical stuff.



Originally posted by Deadline
You need to calm down.

I'm actually perfectly fine. What I said is true and remains true. You made a topic that is heavily based on speculation and assumption for the character you're supporting, and you're not even posting much to support it. There's only so far you can go with using scans of other Green Lanterns and apply them to Cap. It works more in my favor the other way around, though, on Superman's performances against GLs and others.

Originally posted by Delta1938
http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Speed/Miscellaneous/ProfessorZoom

Professor Zoom is faster than Wally. Superman not only tagged him, but Professor Zoom said Superman's speed rivals his own. Going by your logic, Superman is faster than Wally and therefore would be faster than John.



Ok do you understand that individual feats in themselves don't prove anything? Do you understand that we take feats as a whole? Sure Superman tagged him but in another instance like The Sinestro Wars Zoom was too fast.

So no according to my logic it wouldn't prove Superman is faster because i don't go by individual feats. You need to actually comprehend what my argument is before actually telling me what my logic is.


Originally posted by Delta1938

Setting things up would mean it's an assumption that John was fast enough to handle him. And I was referring to Superman was too fast for WALLY to do anything. Wally was fast enough to know what he was doing, but not fast enough to do anything about it. And if you try to argue the force field John put around Superman, unless you can prove Wally's speed steal could not work despite that, it's a circular argument. And Superman busting right through that field and KOing John doesn't help your argument.



No it's not an assumption because there are other examples of GLs having comparable speed feats to characters like Superman. Again Cap has set up Spiderman it doesn't prove that Cap is faster than Spiderman. Spiderman has been tagged by people slower than him loads of times it doesn't necceasrily prove that characters are faster than him. Again we go by feats as a whole. I don't need to prove anything in those scans John had comparable attack speed to Flash that's all you need to know.

Ok I'm going to try one more time. John wasn't really beaten by Supermans speed but blunt force trauma. Captain America can tag and KO Spiderman it doesn't prove that he's faster if we go by feats as a whole.


Originally posted by Delta1938

You're bringing up stuff that's questionable at best. Batman has caught Impulse running around in Speed Force ADD mode. Does that mean he could keep-up with Jay or Supes?


No they're not questionable. You see this is the problem you can't tell the difference between a 'peak human' and man with a ring that can make him travel at FTL speed and do things like time travel? If you can't tell the difference between a GL and Batman then I'm clearly wasting my time.


Seriously.





Originally posted by Delta1938

I didn't say "standing still." Zoom wasn't running in circles around Superman like he was with Wonder Woman, and I mixed them up. It's still being overblown.


and I'm not sure if i believe you the first time I said you were saying he was standing still you didn't deny it. Bottom line is you were trying to belittle the feat.

No it's not overblown because you don't get the point. Looking at feats in general Zoom is faster than Flash and Superman. Zoom was actively moving around trying to evade the superheros he was fighting, so it's still impressive that Hal was able to not only tag him but grab him.

The point isn't that Hal is as fast as Zoom or faster the point it was still impressive considering and you could argue that Hal could handle characters slower than Zoom.

Originally posted by Delta1938

But about me not bringing-up that John and Wally were mind controlled. You know why I didn't bring it up? It's because they weren't. Long story short, Maxwell Lord had telepathic influence on Superman, and was making Superman paranoid and come to the conclusion that THEY were the ones under telepathic control, not him.

I know this because I actually read the comic. You made the assumption because you hadn't read about it. And you ***** that I need to "read it properly." Don't YOU look like a dumbass right now? Karma's a *****.


Right so you managed to read a comic I haven't read I guess that's a crime now. Ok you need to calm down because it doesn't disprove anything. Still doesn't change the fact that John had comparable attack speeds to Flash, that's the point.


Originally posted by Delta1938

All of this is irrelevant because I'm referring to things like Superman overcoming a death god's, well, "death power" for lack of a better term, or other examples like that, not some will overcoming physical stuff.


I don't even think you even understood the point I was making? What point was I trying to make?



Originally posted by Delta1938

I'm actually perfectly fine. What I said is true and remains true. You made a topic that is heavily based on speculation and assumption for the character you're supporting, and you're not even posting much to support it. There's only so far you can go with using scans of other Green Lanterns and apply them to Cap. It works more in my favor the other way around, though, on Superman's performances against GLs and others.

No, no you're not fine at all. You need to calm down and I just decided to clarify some points. I'm going to stop posting on this topic real soon. This is not a debate but an argument.

Originally posted by Deadline
Ok do you understand that individual feats in themselves don't prove anything? Do you understand that we take feats as a whole? Sure Superman tagged him but in another instance like The Sinestro Wars Zoom was too fast.

So no according to my logic it wouldn't prove Superman is faster because i don't go by individual feats. You need to actually comprehend what my argument is before actually telling me what my logic is.





No it's not an assumption because there are other examples of GLs having comparable speed feats to characters like Superman. Again Cap has set up Spiderman it doesn't prove that Cap is faster than Spiderman. Spiderman has been tagged by people slower than him loads of times it doesn't necceasrily prove that characters are faster than him. Again we go by feats as a whole. I don't need to prove anything in those scans John had comparable attack speed to Flash that's all you need to know.

The great irony is you're focusing on over blowing two examples, where I can show many, many more examples for Superman's speed. I haven't shown many, because you're really not bringing much to the table.

Originally posted by Deadline
Ok I'm going to try one more time. John wasn't really beaten by Supermans speed but blunt force trauma. Captain America can tag and KO Spiderman it doesn't prove that he's faster if we go by feats as a whole.

I was referring to Superman operating too fast for WALLY to do anything. Which it says in the comic. Breaking John's construct being "he didn't beat John by speed" is irrelevant. Why? Too fast for Wally+too powerful for John=JLA ownage. If you can't prove that Wally would be unable to speed steal(his only option in the situation) then there's nothing to say Superman wouldn't have gone too fast for John, unless you're going to argue John IS faster than Wally. What is that about me needing to learn to read properly again?


Originally posted by Deadline
No they're not questionable. You see this is the problem you can't tell the difference between a 'peak human' and man with a ring that can make him travel at FTL speed and do things like time travel? If you can't tell the difference between a GL and Batman then I'm clearly wasting my time.


Seriously.

You keep going about "feats as a whole" and bring-up two examples you blow out of proportion. Do you want to start comparing relevant speed feats between Superman and typical GLs? "Relevant" being the keyword here. And since you brought up time travel, I can see why you didn't get the Batman example.


Originally posted by Deadline
and I'm not sure if i believe you the first time I said you were saying he was standing still you didn't deny it. Bottom line is you were trying to belittle the feat.

No it's not overblown because you don't get the point. Looking at feats in general Zoom is faster than Flash and Superman. Zoom was actively moving around trying to evade the superheros he was fighting, so it's still impressive that Hal was able to not only tag him but grab him.

The point isn't that Hal is as fast as Zoom or faster the point it was still impressive considering and you could argue that Hal could handle characters slower than Zoom.

So tell me again why you complain about me "using one feat" and you're only relying on two shown(and blown out of proportion) examples and one you cited but didn't show? Where are the other examples? What, it's fine to rely on just some when it helps hypothetical Cap?


Originally posted by Deadline
Right so you managed to read a comic I haven't read I guess that's a crime now. Ok you need to calm down because it doesn't disprove anything. Still doesn't change the fact that John had comparable attack speeds to Flash, that's the point.

You tried to "belittle" Superman's JLA ownage by "why aren't you mentioning they were mind controlled?" when if anybody was handicapped by it, it was Superman. Although it was actually he was being manipulated by his paranoia being amped, but yeah.

Are we going to keep going in circles about the meager two overblown examples you keep pimping, or will you actually show something better? And, will it be based on something you've read first-hand?


Originally posted by Deadline
I don't even think you even understood the point I was making? What point was I trying to make?

You're trying to argue Cap's willpower>Superman's willpower because Superman is superhuman and your comparison is shit like Cap showing will by physically overcoming stuff. I base Superman's willpower on other things. So your argument of "Cap is human" is irrelevant because I'm not talking about the same things you are.

Did YOU understand the point I was making?


Originally posted by Deadline
No, no you're not fine at all. You need to calm down and I just decided to clarify some points. I'm going to stop posting on this topic real soon. This is not a debate but an argument.

I'm perfectly calm. It's simply a fact your argument is of a hypothetical character. You need a lot of speculation and assumption, and using stuff from other GLs only goes so far, because it's a hypothetical Green Lantern. Superman's performances against other GLs though do in fact hold more weight.

Originally posted by Delta1938
The great irony is you're focusing on over blowing two examples, where I can show many, many more examples for Superman's speed. I haven't shown many, because you're really not bringing much to the table.



I was referring to Superman operating too fast for WALLY to do anything. Which it says in the comic. Breaking John's construct being "he didn't beat John by speed" is irrelevant. Why? Too fast for Wally+too powerful for John=JLA ownage. If you can't prove that Wally would be unable to speed steal(his only option in the situation) then there's nothing to say Superman wouldn't have gone too fast for John, unless you're going to argue John IS faster than Wally. What is that about me needing to learn to read properly again?




You keep going about "feats as a whole" and bring-up two examples you blow out of proportion. Do you want to start comparing relevant speed feats between Superman and typical GLs? "Relevant" being the keyword here. And since you brought up time travel, I can see why you didn't get the Batman example.




So tell me again why you complain about me "using one feat" and you're only relying on two shown(and blown out of proportion) examples and one you cited but didn't show? Where are the other examples? What, it's fine to rely on just some when it helps hypothetical Cap?




You tried to "belittle" Superman's JLA ownage by "why aren't you mentioning they were mind controlled?" when if anybody was handicapped by it, it was Superman. Although it was actually he was being manipulated by his paranoia being amped, but yeah.

Are we going to keep going in circles about the meager two overblown examples you keep pimping, or will you actually show something better? And, will it be based on something you've read first-hand?




You're trying to argue Cap's willpower>Superman's willpower because Superman is superhuman and your comparison is shit like Cap showing will by physically overcoming stuff. I base Superman's willpower on other things. So your argument of "Cap is human" is irrelevant because I'm not talking about the same things you are.

Did YOU understand the point I was making?




I'm perfectly calm. It's simply a fact your argument is of a hypothetical character. You need a lot of speculation and assumption, and using stuff from other GLs only goes so far, because it's a hypothetical Green Lantern. Superman's performances against other GLs though do in fact hold more weight.

Look go back and read what I posted properly instead of trying to win a debate.

Originally posted by Deadline
Look go back and read what I posted properly instead of trying to win a debate.

I read it fine, thank you very much. Do you have anything beside those two examples?

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
I made a very simple statement that stupid people may find complexed. Mxy wouldn't be shit im Marvel. Hope that helps, but probably not in your case.

Wait how would Mxy not be shit in Marvel? When Joker had 99% of his power he easily recreated the universe. Puts him around LT levels at least. He would obliterate Impossible Man with a thought.

Originally posted by Surtur
Wait how would Mxy not be shit in Marvel? When Joker had 99% of his power he easily recreated the universe. Puts him around LT levels at least. He would obliterate Impossible Man with a thought.

Because he wouldn't be written that way. No one in Marvel would be depicted as being all powerful, hence, he would be shit in Marvel (in comparison to D.C.)

Great logic......

Originally posted by abhilegend
Great logic......

It's perfectly logical. There is no Marvel equivalent portrayal of Mxy running around wreaking havoc any time he feels like it. Marvel doesn't do business that way. Sorry you don't like it.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
It's perfectly logical. There is no Marvel equivalent portrayal of Mxy running around wreaking havoc any time he feels like it. Marvel doesn't do business that way. Sorry you don't like it. Going by that logic Galactus would be a Teen Titans-level threat in the DCU.

Yeah, totally plausible !!!

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Going by that logic Galactus would be a Teen Titans-level threat in the DCU.

Yeah, totally plausible !!!

Um, no. There are characters more akin to Galactus in D.C. such as Antimonitor.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Um, no. There are characters more akin to Galactus in D.C. such as Antimonitor.

And you know that, because you read comics?

Get out of here dude!!!

"Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something."

Plato.

In case you don't know you fall into the fool category.

Physical beasts are always Lanterns kryptonite and Superman is a physical beast. Captain America isn't winning a single match here. Maybe if he was fighting a Mage or blaster he could win but people like Superman, Thor, Blue Marvel, etc... would smoke him/them.

This could be a good thread but there is a lot of trolling. I wish it would stop so we could have a proper debate.

Originally posted by carver9
Physical beasts are always Lanterns kryptonite and Superman is a physical beast. Captain America isn't winning a single match here. Maybe if he was fighting a Mage or blaster he could win but people like Superman, Thor, Blue Marvel, etc... would smoke them.

You have a point but if Cap was using the GL ring and nothing else I think you could say Superman wins. You're not factoring Caps shield his h2h skills and his battle tactics.

Caps GL powers will keep him the game so he can set up Supes for a shield strike or take him out h2h.

I made a thread based on this one. In which I pitted GL Captain America with a 5 year experience on the ring and his shield vs the top tier green lanterns and no one thinks he can beat the top lanterns. Not saying you are wrong, just that almost no one shares your opinion.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t616294.html

Originally posted by carver9
Physical beasts are always Lanterns kryptonite and Superman is a physical beast. Captain America isn't winning a single match here. Maybe if he was fighting a Mage or blaster he could win but people like Superman, Thor, Blue Marvel, etc... would smoke him/them.

Caps fighting skill is flat out superior to Superman's and it isn't close. He also has an indestructible melee weapon that he can complete control with the GL power. And with the Super Soldier serum, he will make the transition to herald seamlessly. Kal has met his match.

How is he beating Superman?

Originally posted by carver9
How is he beating Superman?

What do you mean? It's Cap, how do you want it? KHTFO or if he is blood lusted, shearing off his head with the Shield. Cap would redefine what it is to be a GL.

Cap's skill >>>>> Hal
Cap's will >>>>> Hal

Hal busted Krona, right? A GL Cap would own Superman in battle.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
I made a thread based on this one. In which I pitted GL Captain America with a 5 year experience on the ring and his shield vs the top tier green lanterns and no one thinks he can beat the top lanterns. Not saying you are wrong, just that almost no one shares your opinion.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t616294.html

I didn't respond because it looked like a bait thread. It doesn't matter what they think nobody backed up their opinion with fact and reasoning.

Originally posted by carver9
How is he beating Superman?

You do realise that cap could actually one-shot Superman? Nobodies seems to get this.

Originally posted by Deadline
I didn't respond because it looked like a bait thread. It doesn't matter what they think nobody backed up their opinion with fact and reasoning.



You do realise that cap could actually one-shot Superman? Nobodies seems to get this. facepalm

Originally posted by Deadline
I didn't respond because it looked like a bait thread. It doesn't matter what they think nobody backed up their opinion with fact and reasoning.



You do realise that cap could actually one-shot Superman? Nobodies seems to get this.

Back your opinion up with facts of Cap as a GL.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
facepalm

You do understand that Cap has been able to Stun people who are more powerful and have comparable power to Superman just at his normal strength level. What do you think he's going to do when he can have potentially class 100 strength? One shot.

Originally posted by Deadline
You do understand that Cap has been able to Stun people who are more powerful and have comparable power to Superman just at his normal strength level. What do you think he's going to do when he can have potentially class 100 strength? One shot. Show me some GL punching feats, I double dare you.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Show me some GL punching feats, I double dare you.

Are u serious like the loads of examples of Gls using boxing gloves etc? Or examples of GLs creating body armour etc. Huh?

So obvoulsly Cap can create enhanced body armour and use it to punch.

Originally posted by Deadline
Are u serious like the loads of examples of Gls using boxing gloves etc? Or examples of GLs creating body armour etc. Huh?

So obvoulsly Cap can create enhanced body armour and use it to punch. No punching feats then?

Superman consistenly breaks through those constructs as if they were glass, it's embarassing.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
No punching feats then?

I don't need. As I already explained GLs can create enhanced power armour and it's not the Gls that are doing the punching Cap will, so you should be asking me about about Cap punching feats.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes

Superman consistenly breaks through those constructs as if they were glass, it's embarassing.

Yea I guess he's gonna break it with his face ie he's not going break it if Cap is engaging him in h2h. Cap will stomp him.

Prove it.

I dunno look at MA ranking thread or Cap respect thread and compare that with Supermans h2h skills.

No, I want you to post feats of Cap hurting people in Superman's level. And if you can't do that, then show me a GL beating Superman.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
No, I want you to post feats of Cap hurting people in Superman's level. And if you can't do that, then show me a GL beating Superman.

There are lots of examples of Cap hurting people, not neccesarily on Supermans level but comparable ie class 100. Also they don't neccesarily need to be comparable because Cap doesn't have class 100 strength, some characters don't have class 100 durability but are still very durable its impressive what Cap can do, so we give Cap class 100 strength and we estimate how hard he could hit.

I don't need to show you a GL beating Superman we already know high end GLs could at least hold their own against Superman. Pretty sure Alan Scott can or even beat Superman.

I'm taking a break for now but you can take a look at the Cap respect thread in the mean time.

Ok.

Superman wins.

Sups is invureable so sups wins here even u put cap is like Green Lanterns

Originally posted by Deadline
You do realise that cap could actually one-shot Superman?








Seriously, how do you expect people to take you seriously when you make a retarded statement like the one above? I'm not sure if you're crazy enough to actually believe what you say or if you're just trolling. If anyone is getting one-shotted here it's Cap.

Originally posted by Deadline
I didn't respond because it looked like a bait thread. It doesn't matter what they think nobody backed up their opinion with fact and reasoning.



You do realise that cap could actually one-shot Superman? Nobodies seems to get this.
Hahaha. This is just golden.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Show me some GL punching feats, I double dare you.


Are you at all familiar with Green Lanterns?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Back your opinion up with facts of Cap as a GL.

Nice pie in the sky argument. Cap hasn't been GL and you know this, so why would you ask someone to produce evidence of feats that don't actually exist?

Funny how you guys who otherwise would be wanking GL feats all of a sudden have group amnesia. What happened to the Krona killer attack? What happened to time travel? What happened to shielding against an antimatter storm?

Also, stop asking for examples of Cap as a GL when Cap has never been a GL. You are wasting board space and making yourself look desperate at the same time. Batman is not Cap, neither is Hal. Cap is so much more and it shouldn't be hard to project his capabilities as a GL based on his own attributes. You all simple don't want to do it and most of that comes down to D.C. brand and Superman loyalty.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Nice pie in the sky argument. Cap hasn't been GL and you know this, so why would you ask someone to produce evidence of feats that don't actually exist?

Lol and WHY would you back up an argument that has no feats and only WISHFUL THINKING?

Lol at this guy

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Lol and WHY would you back up an argument that has no feats and only WISHFUL THINKING?

Lol at this guy

Wishful thinking?

Dude, no offense, but are you stupid? How the hell could there be feats? I didn't make the OP, take out your fanboy frustrations out on him. If you can't understand that the very premise of the proposed battle involving an amalgam character that has never existed in comics requires informed speculation, then you shouldn't be anywhere near this post. And there is no "wishful thinking" on my part. My analysis is that Captain American would win and I don't need your approval to hold that opinion.

We have zero feats or proof of what Cap can or cannot do with his ring. Does he become Stewart level? He managed to overcharge his ring beyond its capacity.

Does he become Kyle level? Kyle overrode Mageddon's efforts through sheer willpower.

Guy level? Actually, Guy's pretty shite.

Hal level? Krona buster, etc.

Deadline's original post was that in the other thread, all he could see were opinions, that weren't backed up by any facts or proof. Hence my post.

Supes is pretty effective with GLs. I understand he now has his shield, which no other GL has - but is that all that is needed for Kyle/Hal/any other GL to take the win? IIRC, GL's themselves don't have enhanced reaction speeds - it's the ring itself that is fast. Which Superman has outreacted/outright smashed its constructs before. With every GL that has ever tried.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
We have zero feats or proof of what Cap can or cannot do with his ring. Does he become Stewart level? He managed to overcharge his ring beyond its capacity.

Does he become Kyle level? Kyle overrode Mageddon's efforts through sheer willpower.

Guy level? Actually, Guy's pretty shite.

Hal level? Krona buster, etc.

Deadline's original post was that in the other thread, all he could see were opinions, that weren't backed up by any facts or proof. Hence my post.

Supes is pretty effective with GLs. I understand he now has his shield, which no other GL has - but is that all that is needed for Kyle/Hal/any other GL to take the win? IIRC, GL's themselves don't have enhanced reaction speeds - it's the ring itself that is fast. Which Superman has outreacted/outright smashed its constructs before. With every GL that has ever tried.


Do you get that Cap has superhuman reactions and what has become natural combat abilities that the others you mention don't come close to? You are saying it's all speculation and mostly it is, but why is it that you and others in the thread aren't even considering the attributes that Cap brings to the table BEFORE the GL upgrade? Cap would set a NEW standards for GLs IMO, so talking about the current GL shortcomings isn't relevant. This is NOT a normal GL. He would be the Cap of GLs, and all you have to do is think about it honestly. This guy is able to bang with heroes and villains far about his level as it is, so if current GLs come close but fall short of Superman, I am certain he won't. He's probably call him "son" too and Kal would feel like "son."

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Do you get that Cap has superhuman reactions and what has become natural combat abilities that the others you mention don't come close to? You are saying it's all speculation and mostly it is, but why is it that you and others in the thread aren't even considering the attributes that Cap brings to the table BEFORE the GL upgrade? Cap would set a NEW standards for GLs IMO, so talking about the current GL shortcomings isn't relevant. This is NOT a normal GL. He would be the Cap of GLs, and all you have to do is think about it honestly. This guy is able to bang with heroes and villains far about his level as it is, so if current GLs come close but fall short of Superman, I am certain he won't. He's probably call him "son" too and Kal would feel like "son."

The ring doesn't take existing attributes and amp them further. If Batman and Alfred got the ring, it would only form constructs as quickly as Batman could think of them.

Cap getting the ring would still only form constructs at the speed of Cap's reflexes. And Superman is still>>Cap in reflex speed.

The autoshields would then kick in (which are independent of the user, hence 'auto'), and we know Superman has smashed many an autoshield in his time.

If they stood there, and Superman allowed himself to be caged, and then tried breaking out of it whilst Cap brought all of his willpower to bear, then sure, a good case can be made. But in a fight? Superman has already detailed how he would fight GLs. And that involves speed.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Are you at all familiar with Green Lanterns? He said Cap would punch harder with the GLR, so I told him to show me instances where this statement held true for, at least, another Green Lantern. But he didn't.

Do you need to have everything explained to you?

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
He said Cap would punch harder with the GLR, so I told him to show me instances where this statement held true for, at least, another Green Lantern. But he didn't.

Do you need to have everything explained to you?



Hey Hellen Keller, there is no instance to reference because it hasn't happened!

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The ring doesn't take existing attributes and amp them further. If Batman and Alfred got the ring, it would only form constructs as quickly as Batman could think of them.

Cap getting the ring would still only form constructs at the speed of Cap's reflexes. And Superman is still>>Cap in reflex speed.

The autoshields would then kick in (which are independent of the user, hence 'auto'), and we know Superman has smashed many an autoshield in his time.

If they stood there, and Superman allowed himself to be caged, and then tried breaking out of it whilst Cap brought all of his willpower to bear, then sure, a good case can be made. But in a fight? Superman has already detailed how he would fight GLs. And that involves speed.

What are you talking about? The ring would not SLOW DOWN Cap's reactions and ability to recall information as a result of his super soldier serum, so yes, he would retain those advantages over normal "human" GLs.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet


Hey Hellen Keller, there is no instance to reference because it hasn't happened! Heh, I see you're still not the sharpest tool in the box.

So if it hasn't happened, why would anyone think Cap's peak human stats would have any impact here?

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
What are you talking about? The ring would not SLOW DOWN Cap's reactions and ability to recall information as a result of his super soldier serum, so yes, he would retain those advantages over normal "human" GLs.

Yes, he would. I agree.

In this thread, he'd up against Superman. Whose reactions are still faster than Cap's, and def faster than normal human GLs.

When speedblitzed by extreme force (as Superman has done many times), the GL ring compensates with autoshields. Which may or may not be faster than Cap, but let's say they are (being 'auto', after all). Superman has smashed those many a time.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Heh, I see you're still not the sharpest tool in the box.

So if it hasn't happened, why would anyone think Cap's peak human stats would have any impact here?

Because once again, he has a superior COMBAT MIND. I said that from the beginning so you should try paying attention. He also has top tier WILLPOWER. Again, you are familiar with Green Lanterns, right? He also has tons of skill and experience as a Soldier an AVENGER. And yes, his peak human stats come into play in terms of his reaction time, spatial awareness, aim, timing, physical combat prowess, all the intangible attributes he possess that would be employed as a Green Lantern. And then there is the indestructible shield.

Plus, I don't think Cap will go all out Ted Bundy on Superman trying to decapitate him with the shield. Do you even comics, BAV?