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All 4 are DCnu full power but non amped versions.

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w344/riv6672/image_zpsjrvs04ht.jpg

Superman and WW cannot fly, or use super speed. Superman can use no secondary powers (no freeze breath, heat vision etc.).

WW can only use her lasso.

Aquaman can only use mind rape.

Batman can only use nerve strikes.

The team can use their other powers/gadgets to defend and avoid but not attack. The win, if possible must come using their forum auto win powers/skill.
No prep. No BFR.

Uh, Superman wins effortlessly. Her lasso is all but useless on him and that's only threat he has here.

With absolutely no sarcasm i say: Thank you for your opinion.
The lasso the mind rape and the nerve strikes have gotten a lot of play in threads i've been in this week. I wanted to put them to the Superman test.

All three very good fighters I think if Batman is as skilled nerve manipulator as people say why couldn't they beat him

Well, thats what i'm hoping to find out, hopefully.

DCnU, Aquaman's TP isn't as formidable. He's used it against alligators, manatees, fish etc...nothing more. Oh and those monsters.

DCnU, Batman's nerve strikes haven't really worked on guys of this level. Unlike Cage, these guys haven't been taken down by streets with pressure point attacks.

DCnU, WW's lasso hasn't been as uber as pre.

Therefore, Superman wins by finger flicking everyone.

Ouch.
Not the finger flick, DS...

So WW and Aquaman can't use their super strength here?

Maybe aquaman could focus all his TP power on supes while WW physically attacks him?...how good is aquaman's TP anyway?

Not that great. Not as good as pre 52.

Originally posted by riv6672


All 4 are DCnu full power but non amped versions.



Superman ... cannot fly, or use super speed. Superman can use no secondary powers (no freeze breath, heat vision etc.).

WW can only use her lasso.

Aquaman can only use mind rape.

Batman can only use nerve strikes.

The team can use their other powers/gadgets to defend and avoid but not attack. The win, if possible must come using their forum auto win powers/skill.
No prep. No BFR.


I'm not quite sure what you're asking here.


I'm looking primarily at the bolded part.
DCnU Wonder Woman has demonstrated greater fight skill than DCnU Superman, taking on Faora and Zod, both fight trained powerful Kryptonians, and holding her own. She's also demonstrated the ability to handle an opponent who was expressly implied to be stronger than her (the goddess Artemis) and used that opponent's strength against her to get a convincing and thorough win.

DCnU Superman doesn't seem to have the same level of durability as his precursor. Without the bolded powers listed in your quote, Diana probably subdues him on her own. With help, this is a definite team win, unless I'm completely misunderstanding what you're asking us to comment on.

I don't think WW can use her strength here. She can only use her lasso.

Superman, with medium difficulty.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I'm not quite sure what you're asking here.


I'm looking primarily at the bolded part.
DCnU Wonder Woman has demonstrated greater fight skill than DCnU Superman, taking on Faora and Zod, both fight trained powerful Kryptonians, and holding her own. She's also demonstrated the ability to handle an opponent who was expressly implied to be stronger than her (the goddess Artemis) and used that opponent's strength against her to get a convincing and thorough win.

DCnU Superman doesn't seem to have the same level of durability as his precursor. Without the bolded powers listed in your quote, Diana probably subdues him on her own. With help, this is a definite team win, unless I'm completely misunderstanding what you're asking us to comment on.
How did that go against Doomsday and how did Doomsday fare against Superman?

Mind you Wonder Woman didn't beat either Zod or Faora on her own. Even with a specific armor to absorb her attacks, she wasn't able to beat Faora.

She handled both Zod and Faora. The second time she fought them, they were heavily amped by Apollo to the point that he shot a beam of sun light from the heavens that made both Faora and Zod light up like the sun itself. Before that, Wonder Woman was stomping them...to the point that Zod himself didn't deny that WW could kill him.

She can only use her lasso. Which is nowhere as powerful as ore 52.

Originally posted by carver9
She handled both Zod and Faora. The second time she fought them, they were heavily amped by Apollo to the point that he shot a beam of sun light from the heavens that made both Faora and Zod light up like the sun itself. Before that, Wonder Woman was stomping them...to the point that Zod himself didn't deny that WW could kill him.
They were not amped by Apollo at that point.

And no she didn't handle any of them.

You have been schooled on this before.

Riv just to to be clear can Wonder Woman and Aquaman use their strength?

Originally posted by abhilegend
They were not amped by Apollo at that point.

And no she didn't handle any of them.

You have been schooled on this before.

You haven't schooled anyone.

Sigh...Apollo was feeding them power throughout the issue. He even tells us this. He then decided to just overload them with power so that they can stomp Superman and Wonder Woman.

I thought he only fed them power to get them up to 100%?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
DCnU, Aquaman's TP isn't as formidable. He's used it against alligators, manatees, fish etc...nothing more. Oh and those monsters.

DCnU, Batman's nerve strikes haven't really worked on guys of this level. Unlike Cage, these guys haven't been taken down by streets with pressure point attacks.

DCnU, WW's lasso hasn't been as uber as pre.

Therefore, Superman wins by finger flicking everyone.

Wait a second. Where was this in the AM/Namor thread?

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Wait a second. Where was this in the AM/Namor thread?

Re-read the thread itself. Beatboks specifically said pre-52 AQ did those things. I pointed out he had the hand of the Waterbearer when he did the Avengers feat, which isn't canon, anyway. KM references pre-52 AQ.

I posted scans of DCnU AQ, and never once did I say he uses TP. KM even point blank asks you which Aquaman you are arguing against....

Originally posted by carver9
You haven't schooled anyone.

Sigh...Apollo was feeding them power throughout the issue. He even tells us this. He then decided to just overload them with power so that they can stomp Superman and Wonder Woman.
Oh yes, I have.

No, he wasn't. He just gave them powers.. He didn't give them any amps until that fight was over.

You are welcome to prove otherwise.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Re-read the thread itself. Beatboks specifically said pre-52 AQ did those things. I pointed out he had the hand of the Waterbearer when he did the Avengers feat, which isn't canon, anyway. KM references pre-52 AQ.

I posted scans of DCnU AQ, and never once did I say he uses TP. KM even point blank asks you which Aquaman you are arguing against....


First, I wasn't addressing your comments alone, I said "in the thread." Second, it's pretty easy to see that I'm talking about the 52 AM being that I said "the last time D.C. blew up their pitiful universe." It would be nice if he simply answered the question. Since you apparently have power of attorney, tell him that.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I thought he only fed them power to get them up to 100%?

Nope. Never said. Zod was already powerful enough to stomp Martian Manhunter. He was powerful enough to break Superman arm effortlessly. What more do you need.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh yes, I have.

No, he wasn't. He just gave them powers.. He didn't give them any amps until that fight was over.

You are welcome to prove otherwise.

He was powering them up.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3695652-superman-wonder+woman+%282013-%29+006-011.jpg

He then super charge them.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/120679/3695651-superman-wonder+woman+%282013-%29+006-013.jpg

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
First, I wasn't addressing your comments alone, I said "in the thread." Second, it's pretty easy to see that I'm talking about the 52 AM being that I said "the last time D.C. blew up their pitiful universe." It would be nice if he simply answered the question. Since you apparently have power of attorney, tell him that.

Hence I paraphrased everyone else who mentioned TP and had showings. 'In the thread'.

I'm not claiming power of attorney, you just asked me where the post I posted in this thread was in the AQ/Namor thread.

Originally posted by carver9
He was powering them up.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3695652-superman-wonder+woman+%282013-%29+006-011.jpg

He then super charge them.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/120679/3695651-superman-wonder+woman+%282013-%29+006-013.jpg
Does he? He just said that he made them powerful much before they could've been. There is no indication that it was a continuous power up.

Originally posted by carver9
You haven't schooled anyone.

Sigh...Apollo was feeding them power throughout the issue. He even tells us this. He then decided to just overload them with power so that they can stomp Superman and Wonder Woman.

That feeling when you don't know whether to believe Carver and Abhi, but know that they're somehow both wrong...

Originally posted by abhilegend
Does he? He just said that he made them powerful much before they could've been. There is no indication that it was a continuous power up.



Sooooo......are they now inherently more dangerous to Superman?

Originally posted by -Pr-
That feeling when you don't know whether to believe Carver and Abhi, but know that they're somehow both wrong...
Nope, only Carver is wrong. Ye of little faith!!!

Apollo's actions were revenge for an earlier debacle where he tried to take Superman down or out with a blast of concentrated sunlight.

I'm still undecided as to whether we are meant to understand Apollo had lethal intent or not. It's worth noting that Apollo has burned to death at least 3 people, and I'm fairly certain at least 6 can be safely claimed. Would that I could see the scans of how he dealt with his 2nd group of oracles in Wonder Woman #23.2, The First Born's Secret Origin. I'd bet good money they were cooked as thoroughly as the first set was back in Wonder Woman #1.

At any rate, the attack fails and supercharges Clark. He proceeds to throw Apollo through a mountainside.

In revenge, Apollo maneuvers Zod and Faora to fight against Clark.

That's revealed here:

It is AFTER Apollo explains that he powered the two "new ones" i.e. Zod and Faora up that we see the supercharge of the two Kryptonians.

Perhaps the scans Carver presented so far do not show that clearly enough?
The central image of all that sunpower being beamed down from heaven (Olympus) might have resolved the questions people have had:

The question here is, did Apollo charge them to 100% (after they had been depleted) or were they at 110%/120%/whatever.

Again, moot, as WW only gets her lasso here.

Originally posted by carver9
So WW and Aquaman can't use their super strength here?

Originally posted by carver9
I don't think WW can use her strength here. She can only use her lasso.

I get the impression she has her strength/durability, but can only use the lasso, not strike or grapple, and Aquaman still has his strength/durability, but can only at least attack with telepathy(assuming Riv didn't mean Aquaman can only stand there, but can try to avoid attacks, but maybe he did mean Aquaman can only stand there and attack with telepathy).

Riv, is that what you mean?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The question here is, did Apollo charge them to 100% (after they had been depleted) or were they at 110%/120%/whatever.


The transformation seen by Faora and Zod after Apollo sunblasts them is nearly identical to the transformation seen by Clark when Apollo does the same to him. Clark muses aloud that Apollo is a little less than informed ...

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The question here is, did Apollo charge them to 100% (after they had been depleted) or were they at 110%/120%/whatever.



... and the narration, along with the course of action the fight then takes, where before Superman was getting rather the worse of the encounter, suggests that Apollo's charge gives Kryptonians far MORE than a mere 1/5th (20%) extra power ...

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
The transformation seen by Faora and Zod after Apollo sunblasts them is nearly identical to the transformation seen by Clark when Apollo does the same to him. Clark muses aloud that Apollo is a little less than informed ...

This is BEFORE Apollo sunblasts them. When Apollo says he powered them up more quickly than they otherwise might have been.

Your post does clarify it somewhat, though. Faora and Zod WEREN'T amped before Apollo blasted them, as they did not have the red transformation rays around them.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85


Again, moot, as WW only gets her lasso here.



The lasso was the only thing Wonder Woman got in her fight against Artemis, too ...

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
The lasso was the only thing Wonder Woman got in her fight against Artemis, too ...

And she had her strength, speed, and skills.

Edit: and flight.

Quoted, so you do not miss it:


Originally posted by DarkSaint85
This is BEFORE Apollo sunblasts them. When Apollo says he powered them up more quickly than they otherwise might have been.

Your post does clarify it somewhat, though. Faora and Zod WEREN'T amped before Apollo blasted them, as they did not have the red transformation rays around them.

If you want true clarification, Dark, you need to go back to the original statement made by Carver.

Which is as follows:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"She handled both Zod and Faora.

The second time she fought them, they were heavily amped by Apollo to the point that he shot a beam of sun light from the heavens that made both Faora and Zod light up like the sun itself. Before that, Wonder Woman was stomping them...to the point that Zod himself didn't deny that WW could kill him."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is actually quite accurate. The problem, however, is how a given reader treats the saga of these combatants.
Carver is taking the stance that Superman and Wonder Woman fought the Kryptonians in 2 overall battles.

In the first, Zod and Faora got the better of Superman until Wonder Woman showed up. Whereupon she began taking charge.
Until Superman, inexperienced in fighting at this point, motivated by who knows what, winds up squaring off against Zod and gets his arm broken, while Wonder Woman is shown fairly thoroughly beating Faora.
Zod calls a truce, which Wonder Woman agrees to. End of Battle 1.

In what Carver is considering the 2nd battle however, the heroes, aided by gifts from Hephaestus, give a first strike stealth assault. The villains respond and actually SEEM to get the upper hand after a reasonably lengthy engagement. We're told, in fact, by the Faora and Zod team, that the villains have landed on the heroes roughly a hundred times.
It's a "Gotcha" ruse, though.
Superman and Wonder Woman reveal Heph gave them a suit that returns the energy of strikers as a single, cumulative knockout flash.
That's the infamous Golgotha/Calvary/Crucifix/Cross scene. I really wonder who was in charge of shaping the scene that way.
At any rate, that counter temporarily knocks the Kryptonians out of the fight and into the drink.
Apollo says some debate-able things to Strife, then supercharges the Kryptonian villains by sending that MASSIVE sun-power bolt from Heaven/Olympus/whatever.
They stomp the heroes, arguably to a far greater degree than Superman did Apollo when HE was supercharged by Apollo.
End Battle 2.

Carver's opponent is undoubtedly treating the Heph-ruse portion of Battle 2 as some sort of counter to Battle 1.

It's not.

Wonder Woman handled Faora and Zod in Battle 1.

For the return engagement, taking hits was part of the hero team's STRATEGY. They expected the Heph-ruse to work and it did.

The only reason they got back in the fight was because Apollo did what he did. Carv gave a pretty accurate summation when he said what I quoted above.

True clarification can be taken from the ORIGINAL question, posed by me, which predates your 'original' statement.

Which is as follows. I've edited it a bit, so that the pertinent statements are made for your edification:

This was the response to my question, from carver:
Originally posted by carver9
Sigh...Apollo was feeding them power throughout the issue. He even tells us this. He then decided to just overload them with power so that they can stomp Superman and Wonder Woman.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I thought he only fed them power to get them up to 100%?

Originally posted by carver9
Nope. Never said. Zod was already powerful enough to stomp Martian Manhunter. He was powerful enough to break Superman arm effortlessly. What more do you need.

My question, using the same phrasing as carver, was referring to the same incident, that of the fight when Faora/Zod had been fed by Apollo. BEFORE the bolt of sunlight from the heavens.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85


True clarification can be taken from the ORIGINAL question, posed by me, which predates your 'original' statement.

Which is as follows. I've edited it a bit, so that the pertinent statements are made for your edification:

This was the response to my question, from carver:




My question, using the same phrasing as carver, was referring to the same incident, that of the fight when Faora/Zod had been fed by Apollo. BEFORE the bolt of sunlight from the heavens.

Dark, your question came AFTER what I've quoted from Carver.
Check page 1 for yourself if you don't believe me.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Dark, your question came AFTER what I've quoted from Carver.
Check page 1 for yourself if you don't believe me.

True, but the clarification question is, I feel, the starting point to the discussion. Especially as I asked a question that specifically questioned the timing of the amp.

In any case, your scans have been helpful. As per my original question, which was developed in response to a post by carver, Apollo was NOT amping them PRIOR to the Heph armour explosion. As evidenced by you, there is no glowy red energy surrounding them

AFTER the explosion, Apollo hits them with the sun bolt, and they emerge, amped - just like Superman did before when he first fought Apollo. But BEFORE that, they just looked normal. Apollo only fed them enough energy for them to be in tip top 100% condition.

Thanks .

So Blue is still twisting facts now. See what happens when Superman is bound in her lasso.

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15217447_111.jpg

He just bitchslaps her and gets out of the lasso.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So Blue is still twisting facts now. See what happens when Superman is bound in her lasso.

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15217447_111.jpg

He just bitchslaps her and gets out of the lasso.

Even if she still has her strength/durability, since she can't attack with anything but the lasso, this makes it look like a lock for Superman against her.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Even if she still has her strength/durability, since she can't attack with anything but the lasso, this makes it look like a lock for Superman against her.

Be interested to know what supposed facts you think I'm twisting in this thread, Delta. You more than most should be able to confirm everything I've said before now regarding Apollo, Zod, and Faora with your own readings.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Be interested to know what supposed facts you think I'm twisting in this thread, Delta. You more than most should be able to confirm everything I've said before now regarding Apollo, Zod, and Faora with your own readings.

I'm saying you're twisting facts because I quoted Abhi?

Delta, reported.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Delta, reported.

http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/038/26c/4ed/resized/insanity-wolf-meme-generator-i-will-kill-you-so-hard-you-will-die-to-death-c86fa5.jpg

Originally posted by Delta1938
Even if she still has her strength/durability, since she can't attack with anything but the lasso, this makes it look like a lock for Superman against her.

Is Riv of the mind that Diana merely tossing her lasso over someone ends a fight? The closest I've seen regarding a post-1985 Wonder Woman doing something like that was not actually Diana directly doing that but Green Arrow snaring Captain Marvel with her lasso and freeing Marvel from demon possession by asking Marvel the name of the wizard that gave him his powers. He replies Shazam, which causes the transformative bolt to strike and revert Marvel back into Billy Batson. The sudden shock also frees him of the possession. JLA/JSA Vice and Virtue.

Outside of that, nearly every win I know of Diana getting via Lasso takes the form of her success against Supergirl prior to Kara's heat flash, where she quickly tied the girl up, the form of the Artemis fight where she does exactly what you saw her do on the previous page or pages, or the following, which I trust will be horribly misconstrued but nonetheless commented on sufficiently enough to give readers a general sense of what is going on here:

Diana could beat Clark but under these conditions, it ain't happening.

You ain't beating anyone with that aweful signature.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
You ain't beating anyone with that aweful signature.

What's up buddy? Thought about you yesterday. Where have you been?

Originally posted by carver9
Diana could beat Clark but under these conditions, it ain't happening.
No, she can't. Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Is Riv of the mind that Diana merely tossing her lasso over someone ends a fight? The closest I've seen regarding a post-1985 Wonder Woman doing something like that was not actually Diana directly doing that but Green Arrow snaring Captain Marvel with her lasso and freeing Marvel from demon possession by asking Marvel the name of the wizard that gave him his powers. He replies Shazam, which causes the transformative bolt to strike and revert Marvel back into Billy Batson. The sudden shock also frees him of the possession. JLA/JSA Vice and Virtue.

Outside of that, nearly every win I know of Diana getting via Lasso takes the form of her success against Supergirl prior to Kara's heat flash, where she quickly tied the girl up, the form of the Artemis fight where she does exactly what you saw her do on the previous page or pages, or the following, which I trust will be horribly misconstrued but nonetheless commented on sufficiently enough to give readers a general sense of what is going on here:
Again twisting facts. Superman wasn't trying to get free from the lasso there.

But that's you in the nutshell.

Originally posted by carver9
What's up buddy? Thought about you yesterday.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
....Are you close, carver?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85



http://hugelolcdn.com/i700/22370.jpg

Originally posted by Delta1938
I get the impression she has her strength/durability, but can only use the lasso, not strike or grapple, and Aquaman still has his strength/durability, but can only at least attack with telepathy(assuming Riv didn't mean Aquaman can only stand there, but can try to avoid attacks, but maybe he did mean Aquaman can only stand there and attack with telepathy).

Riv, is that what you mean?
A little late with this response, but your first impressions are correct.
No one is just standing there in this scenario.

But is WW and Aquaman have there strength for the fight?

Originally posted by golem370
But is WW and Aquaman have there strength for the fight?
Like the OP says, defend and evade.
They can only win using TP, lasso, and pressure point attacks though.

This seems to have confused some folks; my bad.
Didnt feel like writing a text book length OP though, which likely would have gotten no responses or been ignored in any event.