Gladiator vs Black Adam

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ozz81
1.H2H/Slug fest
2.Both use full powers and abilities

Who wins?

theTANTALIZER
Can go forever but seeing WW BA, he shows more ferocity and the will to kill.

ghostman
black adam loses.

Star428
Have to go with Adam.

leonidas
pretty close to even in both but adam has shown some crazy feats of will power so i'd give him the slight nod in both. magic lightning can also be a big factor.

Blue Area Vet
Gladiator. He's at least as big of a killer as BA. In War of Kings he was a psychopath. Plus, BA is going to fight Kallark on his terms. He will lose when he does that, eventually.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by leonidas
pretty close to even in both but adam has shown some crazy feats of will power so i'd give him the slight nod in both. magic lightning can also be a big factor.


Ah, no and no. Glads has better feats and magical lighting won't be big. Gladiator will realize quickly that BA is no God of Thunder and his confidence will grow. He will see someone who mirrors him in attitude and methods but is slightly weaker physically. Gladiator won't hold back like Superman outside of preventing collateral damage to the Empire.

Blue Area Vet
By the way, Gladiator recently tried to take out EARTH. He will kill.

abhilegend
Adam wins.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by abhilegend
Adam wins.


Holding the DC hardline I see. There is no earthly reason for you to vote against a Superman clone given your obsession.

abhilegend
Or Adam has better feats in general. Gladiator only loses, Adam only wins. Not hard to gauge this.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by abhilegend
Or Adam has better feats in general. Gladiator only loses, Adam only wins. Not hard to gauge this.

Except for the fact that A) neither statement is true, B) they have no common opponents and C) everything I said in the first post. Gladiator wins. Call me when BA can match this:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/2/29361/624540-solarsystem051ws.jpg

abhilegend
That's classic Drax level feat who was destroying planets with a punch and losing to she hulk and Captain Mar-vell.

When he actually beats a character worth shit, let me know.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by abhilegend
That's classic Drax level feat who was destroying planets with a punch and losing to she hulk and Captain Mar-vell.

When he actually beats a character worth shit, let me know.


So no, you don't have a matching feat for BA? Thanks for playing.

ghostman
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
So no, you don't have a matching feat for BA? Thanks for playing. world war 3.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
So no, you don't have a matching feat for BA? Thanks for playing.
Why would I try to find a comparable feat when it's totally worthless?

Who cares if he destroys a planet or anything? Get some combat feats and then talk.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by ghostman
world war 3.

LOL, when he was sharing power with Isis? laughing out loud

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by abhilegend
Why would I try to find a comparable feat when it's totally worthless?

Who cares if he destroys a planet or anything? Get some combat feats and then talk.

What's the point of any feat? You are pulling out any bullshit you can and seeing if it will stick. Nice try, you've been proven wrong. Gladiator has better feats and I can't believe you talked yourself into this kiddy corner.

Rao Kal El
I am happy BAV is championing a Superman clone laughing out loud

Propaganda has worked rolling on floor laughing

abhilegend
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
What's the point of any feat? You are pulling out any bullshit you can and seeing if it will stick. Nice try, you've been proven wrong. Gladiator has better feats and I can't believe you talked yourself into this kiddy corner.
No, I just don't take these "feats" seriously. Three issues later in the same series Grey Hulk destroyed an asteroid twice the size of earth and he was weaker than ****ing Thing.

So Thing>Grey Hulk>Gladiator? Right?

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by abhilegend
No, I just don't take these "feats" seriously. Three issues later in the same series Grey Hulk destroyed an asteroid twice the size of earth and he was weaker than ****ing Thing.

So Thing>Grey Hulk>Gladiator? Right?


I really don't give a damn. You are completely hypocritical and whenever the criteria doesn't work out in your favor, you try to move the goalposts. Feats didn't work out so now you are trying A/B/C logic. Anything until you can find a match. Do you actually think everyone isn't onto your methods?

Genii96
Are you two always like this?

carver9
Split

Philosophía
Black Adam in both.

Zack M
Adam wins. Just overall more impressive in combat feats.

JBL
Originally posted by abhilegend
No, I just don't take these "feats" seriously. Three issues later in the same series Grey Hulk destroyed an asteroid twice the size of earth and he was weaker than ****ing Thing.

So Thing>Grey Hulk>Gladiator? Right? Lowballing at it best. In another thread you think superman can beat both Adam and Zod at the same time, but here you claim ( BS ) that Adam can beat gladiator who has strength enough to destroy planets ( which none of your heros can or has done in their careers ) and then you take a scene out of context as you so often do by bring up grey hulk feat??????? Did grey hulk land on that asteriod and punch it to dust or did he ram it at high speed ( which you so pointed out when that feat was used against superman a while ago) Gladiator is stronger, faster and a far better fighter than Adam and he does not give a rats behind about killing anyone he faces. Gladiator wins in both forum and feat battle.

Sin I AM
Gladiator is one of those guys who looks good on paper but no so much in action. He did one shot Vulcan though for what it's worth.

Stoic
I have about the same amount of respect for either of these characters. Neither are really great or skillful combatants, and rely on strength/powers most of the time. Gladiator just has more tools which is why i would give him a slight nod. I mean Gladiator would only need to stare into BA's eyes to gain a heavy crippling majority against BA with his laser vision. How hard would it be to blind him?

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by JBL
Lowballing at it best. In another thread you think superman can beat both Adam and Zod at the same time, but here you claim ( BS ) that Adam can beat gladiator who has strength enough to destroy planets ( which none of your heros can or has done in their careers ) and then you take a scene out of context as you so often do by bring up grey hulk feat??????? Did grey hulk land on that asteriod and punch it to dust or did he ram it at high speed ( which you so pointed out when that feat was used against superman a while ago) Gladiator is stronger, faster and a far better fighter than Adam and he does not give a rats behind about killing anyone he faces. Gladiator wins in both forum and feat battle.


That's Abby at his core, refusing to debate with a shred of consistency or integrity. He uses whatever path he can blaze to get to his oh so obvious predetermined destination.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Gladiator is one of those guys who looks good on paper but no so much in action. He did one shot Vulcan though for what it's worth.


Actually, he only exists on paper, so.....

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by Stoic
I have about the same amount of respect for either of these characters. Neither are really great or skillful combatants, and rely on strength/powers most of the time. Gladiator just has more tools which is why i would give him a slight nod. I mean Gladiator would only need to stare into BA's eyes to gain a heavy crippling majority against BA with his laser vision. How hard would it be to blind him?



Largely agree. I'd add that Gladiator has a skill advantage, but it's all but negated due to his personality. He show good combat prowess occasionally, he was brilliant against Supreme. But again, he'd be extremely confident against BA, resulting in a win.

Zack M
Originally posted by Stoic
I have about the same amount of respect for either of these characters. Neither are really great or skillful combatants, and rely on strength/powers most of the time. Gladiator just has more tools which is why i would give him a slight nod. I mean Gladiator would only need to stare into BA's eyes to gain a heavy crippling majority against BA with his laser vision. How hard would it be to blind him?


Adam would cripple him with his magic lightning. Gladiator doesn't have the combat feats Adam does. Adam went up against the JSA by himself.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by Zack M
Adam would cripple him with his magic lightning. Gladiator doesn't have the combat feats Adam does. Adam went up against the JSA by himself.


What's so impressive about his lighting strikes? Gladiator should take them to the chest with little problem.

Zack M
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
What's so impressive about his lighting strikes? Gladiator should take them to the chest with little problem.

It's taken out top tiers before.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
I really don't give a damn. You are completely hypocritical and whenever the criteria doesn't work out in your favor, you try to move the goalposts. Feats didn't work out so now you are trying A/B/C logic. Anything until you can find a match. Do you actually think everyone isn't onto your methods?
Seriously? And when did I start using space cheese?

Be consistent or shut up. Originally posted by JBL
Lowballing at it best. In another thread you think superman can beat both Adam and Zod at the same time, but here you claim ( BS ) that Adam can beat gladiator who has strength enough to destroy planets ( which none of your heros can or has done in their careers ) and then you take a scene out of context as you so often do by bring up grey hulk feat??????? Did grey hulk land on that asteriod and punch it to dust or did he ram it at high speed ( which you so pointed out when that feat was used against superman a while ago) Gladiator is stronger, faster and a far better fighter than Adam and he does not give a rats behind about killing anyone he faces. Gladiator wins in both forum and feat battle.
I didn't say Superman beats both Zod and Adam at the same time. I'd like to see a quote for that.

And yes, Superman has destroyed planets against Emperor Joker, against Kal-L and literally destroyed a planet size hole in ****ing source wall.

Gladiator rammed into the planet at high speed too. It was intact.

Adam would beat the shit out of this mewling coward.

Stoic
Originally posted by Zack M
It's taken out top tiers before.

That doesn't really mean much to a guy that has resistance to that sort of attack. if it came down to a quick draw contest to determine who gets hit first, I'd place my money on the guy that simply has to stare into the others eyes to blind them. Gladiator also has freeze breath which would slow BA down. This is an argument that many people fall back on when Superman is involved in a battle. Gladiator has the exact same ability. Like I said in my post before this, Gladiator has more tools that he can use, and the ones that he have, can be depended on more efficiently.

I can see how the magic lightning may be able to stun Gladiator for a moment, but that laser vision would blind BA for a very long time, if not cause permanent damage. Surely you don't believe that BA's eyes are more durable than the Hulk's hide? Gladiator burned through the Hulk's chest immediately. If not for the laser vison, and the freeze breath I'd give BA the slight nod.

Let's weigh them out shall we?

Speed - About the same
Strength - About the same
Durability - About the same or slight advantage to BA (very slight)
Magic - BA holds all of the cards
Freeze breath - Gladiator
Laser vision - Gladiator
Super hearing - Gladiator
Ultra vision - Gladiator
Combat effectiveness - Both fight like bricks. Neither are world class MA's because they rely mostly on their powers.
Energy resistance - About the same on average
TP resistance - Irrelevant in this case

There may be more that I have missed, but the tools that Gladiator has, are definite advantages, and while we can't argue solely on power set, it does not give us the okay to dismiss power set altogether.

Gladiator has a very limited amount of showings, so in a feat war BA sort of wins. WWiii was BS IMO, because most of the heroes fought like the discovered that they had powers the moment the confrontations began. IMO, it was one of the worst written mini's in existence, and I'd be hard pressed to listen to anyone's positive views on BA's performance throughout that terrible mini.

As for Gladiator, I can't see any of the characters that have defeated him not being able to give BA a hard time or outright crush him as well. So to put this into perspective, perhaps we should look closer at the characters that Gladiator has been pushed by or who actually defeated him. I've already done this, which is why I give Gladiator the slight nod.

Delta1938
Originally posted by Stoic
Gladiator also has freeze breath which would slow BA down. This is an argument that many people fall back on when Superman is involved in a battle. Gladiator has the exact same ability.

What has Gladiator done with his freeze breath? Superman does have the feats to back people citing it. Saying "Gladiator has the same ability" without any examples is a circular argument.

Stoic
Originally posted by Delta1938
What has Gladiator done with his freeze breath? Superman does have the feats to back people citing it. Saying "Gladiator has the same ability" without any examples is a circular argument.

Why would it be a circular argument? One character is used on a bi-weekly basis, while the other may not be seen for several yrs from now. Does this give you the leeway to argue that he does not, or can not freeze a character with his breath attack? Or course it doesn't. Gladiator actually has this power. Or what are you saying? That I'm giving him an ability that he does not possess? How many times has Gladiator used his running speed in a fight? Once? Should I discount it because of the fact that he doesn't actually have that many showings? Of course not. Let's not resort to cherry picking in some inane attempt to discount fictional facts.

Delta1938
Originally posted by Stoic
Why would it be a circular argument? One character is used on a bi-weekly basis, while the other may not be seen for several yrs from now. Does this give you the leeway to argue that he does not, or can not freeze a character with his breath attack? Or course it doesn't. Gladiator actually has this power. Or what are you saying? That I'm giving him an ability that he does not possess? How many times has Gladiator used his running speed in a fight? Once? Should I discount it because of the fact that he doesn't actually have that many showings? Of course not. Let's not resort to cherry picking in some inane attempt to discount fictional facts.

How am I "cherry picking in some inane attempt to discount fictional facts" by asking what Gladiator has done with his freeze breath? I asked what he's done. It's a circular argument if you're assuming just because he has freeze breath that he can slow others down since Superman has.

Stoic
Originally posted by Delta1938
How am I "cherry picking in some inane attempt to discount fictional facts" by asking what Gladiator has done with his freeze breath? I asked what he's done. It's a circular argument if you're assuming just because he has freeze breath that he can slow others down since Superman has.

Because like Superman's breath attack, Gladiator would slow his opponent down, and when taking into account just how fast these guys are, even being a little slower could be disastrous for the character being frozen. So yes it's cherry picking when you consider all of the other abilities that Gladiator actually has. What about the laser vision? If it came down to a quick draw contest I'd go with the guy that only has to stare into the others eyes. What would BA do once he was blinded? Gladiator is fast, and if BA is hit by this attack (highly likely), Gladiator would turn him into a speed bag. It isn't as if Gladiator didn't defeat Hyperion. The one that he defeated has given the Hulk, and Thor trouble, so even with his limited showings, he has shown that he is on the level. Again, why don't we really look at who has beaten Gladiator, or given him a hard time? I'm certain if you looked at them, and compared them to BA, you may see that Gladiator and BA are very close in terms of being physical piers. The only problem is that Gladiator has more tools to rely upon.

Delta1938
Originally posted by Stoic
Because like Superman's breath attack, Gladiator would slow his opponent down, and when taking into account just how fast these guys are, even being a little slower could be disastrous for the character being frozen. So yes it's cherry picking when you consider all of the other abilities that Gladiator actually has. What about the laser vision? If it came down to a quick draw contest I'd go with the guy that only has to stare into the others eyes. What would BA do once he was blinded? Gladiator is fast, and if BA is hit by this attack (highly likely), Gladiator would turn him into a speed bag. It isn't as if Gladiator didn't defeat Hyperion. The one that he defeated has given the Hulk, and Thor trouble, so even with his limited showings, he has shown that he is on the level. Again, why don't we really look at who has beaten Gladiator, or given him a hard time? I'm certain if you looked at them, and compared them to BA, you may see that Gladiator and BA are very close in terms of being physical piers. The only problem is that Gladiator has more tools to rely upon.

Yet, unless Gladiator actually has any feats to back it, your argument is irrelevant. For all intents and purposes, you're giving Superman's freeze breath feats to Gladiator simply because he has freeze breath. Do you even have one feat for Gladiator here, or are you assuming he can do the same because he also has it? That's a circular argument.

Everything else is a strawman because it has nothing to do with the one point I challenged. You could end this if you actually have a comparable feat for Gladiator.

Stoic
Originally posted by Delta1938
Yet, unless Gladiator actually has any feats to back it, your argument is irrelevant. For all intents and purposes, you're giving Superman's freeze breath feats to Gladiator simply because he has freeze breath. Do you even have one feat for Gladiator here, or are you assuming he can do the same because he also has it? That's a circular argument.

Everything else is a strawman because it has nothing to do with the one point I challenged. You could end this if you actually have a comparable feat for Gladiator.

And I'm challenging you to attempt to dismiss any other power, and battle that he has had. You're only point is that he doesn't have as many showings. But then you still have yet to answer his laser vision advantage, the idea that he can see through solid objects, and hear BA from over a city away. There were no strawmen. Again you want to take one thing, and enlarge it to cover the BS that you want others to believe. Gladiator is just as powerful as BA, but he has more tools. I could see if BA was a better fighter, but that isn't the case here. What else do you have? Exactly nothing.

abhilegend
Wonder Man dismissed Gladiator's freeze breath.

DarkSaint85
HV. Note, that BA is power sharing here:

http://i.imgur.com/FJ2n0IS.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/104108/3589682-05.jpg

BA is starting to burn, yes....but he's not getting holes blasted in him. Even when weakened, and with a PG out for the kill. He would be fine here.

But since we're feat sharing, if Glads gets Supes' freeze breath feats, then surely BA gets Shazam's feats? Especially as they're the same company, same magic etc?

In that case, BA gets this pretty amazing feat from Billy. Same invulnerability, after all:

http://i.imgur.com/CdUkPQv.jpg

Also, how does Glads fare against lightning?
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/MastersonThorvsGladiator04.jpg

Sucker shot? Sure. But even if he braced...I mean, if you told me I was going to get hit by lightning, all the prep in the world would still hurt me.

Delta1938
Originally posted by Stoic
And I'm challenging you to attempt to dismiss any other power, and battle that he has had. You're only point is that he doesn't have as many showings. But then you still have yet to answer his laser vision advantage, the idea that he can see through solid objects, and hear BA from over a city away. There were no strawmen. Again you want to take one thing, and enlarge it to cover the BS that you want others to believe. Gladiator is just as powerful as BA, but he has more tools. I could see if BA was a better fighter, but that isn't the case here. What else do you have? Exactly nothing.

That's not it at all. I'm not dismissing anything because "Gladiator doesn't have as many showings." I asked for what freeze breath feats Gladiator has. I asked if he even has one comparable feat for it. You keep focusing on saying I shouldn't dismiss him because he doesn't appear as often while avoiding answering what has Gladiator done with it.

It is a strawman because it has abso-****ING-lutely(note, swearing isn't getting hostile, merely to emphasize) nothing to do with what I asked. I never even argued who would win. You say Gladiator will do the same thing and due to failure to give even one feat, I've come to the conclusion it's wishful thinking.

DarkSaint85
Btw, this is PG's HV. That's KC Superman. Not saying he was seriously hurt, but remember that BA was weakened in the first scan, PG was out for blood, and this is KC Superman, lol.

http://i.imgur.com/6GZM98Q.png

Stoic
Originally posted by Delta1938
That's not it at all. I'm not dismissing anything because "Gladiator doesn't have as many showings." I asked for what freeze breath feats Gladiator has. I asked if he even has one comparable feat for it. You keep focusing on saying I shouldn't dismiss him because he doesn't appear as often while avoiding answering what has Gladiator done with it.

It is a strawman because it has abso-****ING-lutely(note, swearing isn't getting hostile, merely to emphasize) nothing to do with what I asked. I never even argued who would win. You say Gladiator will do the same thing and due to failure to give even one feat, I've come to the conclusion it's wishful thinking.

Since when is BA and Wonder Man the same character? And since when is Wonder Man a light weight? When did BA become Tyrant? How long before people realize that the freeze breath point was not my main point? Oh but you knew that, you were just trying to find a way around the idea that Gladiator in character would resort to permanently crippling an opponent as opposed to Superman who always holds back for fear of killing. Crippling??? Should I say it again? All Gladiator would need to do is use the laser vision that he has used several times in his handful of appearances to blind BA. Do you understand that he has more than freeze breath to rely upon, or was it your point to turn this into a circular argument? You're the one that turn it into one, while i was saying that he has more than just one power that he could rely on. Anyway, by keep going in circles.

Do I believe that Gladiator could one shot BA? Of course not. Do I think that Gladiator has a few advantages due to power set? Yes. Can he use these advantages? Yes. When I said that Gladiator would win, I gave him the slight nod. This is because I think that it would be a rough fight.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
HV. Note, that BA is power sharing here:

http://i.imgur.com/FJ2n0IS.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/104108/3589682-05.jpg

BA is starting to burn, yes....but he's not getting holes blasted in him. Even when weakened, and with a PG out for the kill. He would be fine here.

But since we're feat sharing, if Glads gets Supes' freeze breath feats, then surely BA gets Shazam's feats? Especially as they're the same company, same magic etc?

In that case, BA gets this pretty amazing feat from Billy. Same invulnerability, after all:

http://i.imgur.com/CdUkPQv.jpg

Also, how does Glads fare against lightning?
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/MastersonThorvsGladiator04.jpg

Sucker shot? Sure. But even if he braced...I mean, if you told me I was going to get hit by lightning, all the prep in the world would still hurt me.

Yes it was a sucker shot, and no one told him that he was going to be hit by that lightning, nor was he aware of the follow up pummeling that Thor (Masterson) was going to rain down on him with an unbreakable weapon. It should also be noted that if Thor did not get that help, that he would have lost the fight.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Stoic
Yes it was a sucker shot, and no one told him that he was going to be hit by that lightning, nor was he aware of the follow up pummeling that Thor (Masterson) was going to rain down on him with an unbreakable weapon. It should also be noted that if Thor did not get that help, that he would have lost the fight.

So if you told me, hey, DS, Manny Pacquiao is going to punch you as hard as he can, brace for it!

And I brace.....you're saying I'd be able to laugh it off? Tank it?

What about Tyson in his prime? If I'm allowed to brace for his best haymaker, I can take it?

The pertinent point here is not that Thor had help, or used Mjolnir, or whatever. The point was, normal (i.e. non magical) lightning was sufficient to stun Glads. Shazam lightning is pretty damn potent on top of that, PLUS is magical to boot. And can be spammed.

Delta1938
Originally posted by Stoic
Since when is BA and Wonder Man the same character? And since when is Wonder Man a light weight? When did BA become Tyrant? How long before people realize that the freeze breath point was not my main point? Oh but you knew that, you were just trying to find a way around the idea that Gladiator in character would resort to permanently crippling an opponent as opposed to Superman who always holds back for fear of killing. Crippling??? Should I say it again? All Gladiator would need to do is use the laser vision that he has used several times in his handful of appearances to blind BA. Do you understand that he has more than freeze breath to rely upon, or was it your point to turn this into a circular argument? You're the one that turn it into one, while i was saying that he has more than just one power that he could rely on. Anyway, by keep going in circles.

Do I believe that Gladiator could one shot BA? Of course not. Do I think that Gladiator has a few advantages due to power set? Yes. Can he use these advantages? Yes. When I said that Gladiator would win, I gave him the slight nod. This is because I think that it would be a rough fight.

The **** does any of that have to do with my point? I never brought up Wonder Man, I never made any comparison to Tyrant. And I see what you're doing, poisoning the well about assuming that my question is all some conspiracy related to Superman.

I asked what freeze breath feats Gladiator has. You go on, in all honesty I have no other way to describe it but as a rant. You keep bringing-up stuff that's irrelevant to the one thing I asked, and making assumptions that seem to be more trying to justify me not accepting your argument(based on nothing shown but assumption) than anything concrete.

Do you have even one comparable feat for Gladiator's freeze breath to Superman? Yes or no?

Stoic
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So if you told me, hey, DS, Manny Pacquiao is going to punch you as hard as he can, brace for it!

And I brace.....you're saying I'd be able to laugh it off? Tank it?

What about Tyson in his prime? If I'm allowed to brace for his best haymaker, I can take it?

The pertinent point here is not that Thor had help, or used Mjolnir, or whatever. The point was, normal (i.e. non magical) lightning was sufficient to stun Glads. Shazam lightning is pretty damn potent on top of that, PLUS is magical to boot. And can be spammed.

The difference is that no one warned Gladiator that he was going to be blasted. If Masterson got back up, and Lightning Boy wasn't there to be exploited, Masterson would have gotten his butt kicked. It wasn't Gladiator thinking about how bad his bones ached. Gladiator was standing without any signs of being fatigued, or the aches that Thor (Masterson) had.

Originally posted by Delta1938
The **** does any of that have to do with my point? I never brought up Wonder Man, I never made any comparison to Tyrant. And I see what you're doing, poisoning the well about assuming that my question is all some conspiracy related to Superman.

I asked what freeze breath feats Gladiator has. You go on, in all honesty I have no other way to describe it but as a rant. You keep bringing-up stuff that's irrelevant to the one thing I asked, and making assumptions that seem to be more trying to justify me not accepting your argument(based on nothing shown but assumption) than anything concrete.

Do you have even one comparable feat for Gladiator's freeze breath to Superman? Yes or no?

No that's not what I'm getting at. I'm saying that BA isn't above Gladiaotr in the same sense that Tyrant is above him. he only reason for Superman being brought up is the differences in character between him and Gladiator, which should have been transparent to you. I mean I did say that Superman fear going all out due to his fear of hurting or killing. Gladiator does not care about any of that. That was why I brought all of that up. Again, Gladiator wouldn't have much trouble in grabbing BA by the face, and blinding him with laser vision. You saying wishful thinking immediately gives me the impression that you believe that BA is far superior to Gladiator, almost making it seem like he would be able to one shot him like Tyrant would. In fact I have yet to see anything to suggest that BA is Gladiator's physical superior. Who has beaten Gladiator to the point that would make you think that BA is his superior? Who?

Delta1938
Originally posted by Stoic
No that's not what I'm getting at. I'm saying that BA isn't above Gladiaotr in the same sense that Tyrant is above him. he only reason for Superman being brought up is the differences in character between him and Gladiator, which should have been transparent to you. I mean I did say that Superman fear going all out due to his fear of hurting or killing. Gladiator does not care about any of that. That was why I brought all of that up. Again, Gladiator wouldn't have much trouble in grabbing BA by the face, and blinding him with laser vision. You saying wishful thinking immediately gives me the impression that you believe that BA is far superior to Gladiator, almost making it seem like he would be able to one shot him like Tyrant would. In fact I have yet to see anything to suggest that BA is Gladiator's physical superior. Who has beaten Gladiator to the point that would make you think that BA is his superior? Who?

Superman actually has feats of slowing down, incapacitating and even one-shoting Top-Tiers with his freeze breath. You haven't given a single example of freeze breath for Gladiator and keep arguing because "he has the same power." While you make arguments to me that have nothing to do with what I asked or said(a strawman).

Therefore, I've come to the conclusion that Gladiator slowing down Black Adam with freeze breath is wishful thinking on your part. And you've done nothing to prove otherwise. Maybe Gladiator actually does have the feats to prove your argument, but this would be you lucked out on being right, since you've refused to even cite an example.

Stoic
Originally posted by Delta1938
The **** does any of that have to do with my point? I never brought up Wonder Man, I never made any comparison to Tyrant. And I see what you're doing, poisoning the well about assuming that my question is all some conspiracy related to Superman.

I asked what freeze breath feats Gladiator has. You go on, in all honesty I have no other way to describe it but as a rant. You keep bringing-up stuff that's irrelevant to the one thing I asked, and making assumptions that seem to be more trying to justify me not accepting your argument(based on nothing shown but assumption) than anything concrete.

Do you have even one comparable feat for Gladiator's freeze breath to Superman? Yes or no?

Oh and as for your freeze breath question. What does that have to do with all of the other powers that I mentioned? Like i said keep going in circles. You obviously aren't following, or willing to follow because you're attempting to cover up the rest of what I brought up. You know? I mean the rest of his powers?

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Stoic
The difference is that no one warned Gladiator that he was going to be blasted. If Masterson got back up, and Lightning Boy wasn't there to be exploited, Masterson would have gotten his butt kicked. It wasn't Gladiator thinking about how bad his bones ached. Gladiator was standing without any signs of fatigued, or aches.

So again, if I stood there, and braced myself for Tyson in his prime, I can take it?

That should be standard BZ tactics, then.

"Bell rings, I brace myself."

Do you have any other lightning feats from Gladiator to support your claim? Because so far, its all supposition.

I can just as equally claim that Gladiator was at his peak, and sucker shots are actually strengthening him.

Hear me out.

Gladiator's powers are confidence based.

He's just seen his enemylying helpless on the ground. Hell, look at his fist on hips pose, that smirk on his face. He is confident as phuck there.

Ergo, his powers and durability are sky high. Why wouldn't it be? He's won!

Boom. Even at the height of his powers, Living Lightning can stun him.

Imagine how he'd be feeling at seeing the monster that is BA, tanking his HV and his blows.

Delta1938
Originally posted by Stoic
Oh and as for your freeze breath question. What does that have to do with all of the other powers that I mentioned? Like i said keep going in circles. You obviously aren't following, or willing to follow because you're attempting to cover up the rest of what I brought up. You know? I mean the rest of his powers?

This is irony at its finest.

Delta1938
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So again, if I stood there, and braced myself for Tyson in his prime, I can take it?

That should be standard BZ tactics, then.

"Bell rings, I brace myself."

Do you have any other lightning feats from Gladiator to support your claim? Because so far, its all supposition.

I can just as equally claim that Gladiator was at his peak, and sucker shots are actually strengthening him.

Hear me out.

Gladiator's powers are confidence based.

He's just seen his enemylying helpless on the ground. Hell, look at his fist on hips pose, that smirk on his face. He is confident as phuck there.

Ergo, his powers and durability are sky high. Why wouldn't it be? He's won!

Boom. Even at the height of his powers, Living Lightning can stun him.

Imagine how he'd be feeling at seeing the monster that is BA, tanking his HV and his blows.

I LOLed.

Stoic
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So again, if I stood there, and braced myself for Tyson in his prime, I can take it?

That should be standard BZ tactics, then.

"Bell rings, I brace myself."

Do you have any other lightning feats from Gladiator to support your claim? Because so far, its all supposition.

I can just as equally claim that Gladiator was at his peak, and sucker shots are actually strengthening him.

Hear me out.

Gladiator's powers are confidence based.

He's just seen his enemylying helpless on the ground. Hell, look at his fist on hips pose, that smirk on his face. He is confident as phuck there.

Ergo, his powers and durability are sky high. Why wouldn't it be? He's won!

Boom. Even at the height of his powers, Living Lightning can stun him.

Imagine how he'd be feeling at seeing the monster that is BA, tanking his HV and his blows.


So if BA can use his magic against Glads, why can't Glads look into his eyes before he even opens his mouth and fry his eyes at the speed of light? If this is a quick draw, Glads would win. In this case they both know what each other can do if we go by forum ruling. Since we are going by forum rules, Gladiator would actually be able to hit BA first with his laser vision.

Originally posted by Delta1938
This is irony at its finest.

It's only irony because you decided to take one thing that i said, and attempt to run with it. In so doing you also decided that it was an opportune time to insult my intelligence. Either deal with my entire statement or continue cherry picking to the point of looking pedantic. Like I said keep running in circles.

Stoic
Originally posted by Delta1938
I LOLed.

You did? I was under the impression that you trolled. Close enough i guess.

Zack M
Originally posted by Stoic
And I'm challenging you to attempt to dismiss any other power, and battle that he has had. You're only point is that he doesn't have as many showings. But then you still have yet to answer his laser vision advantage, the idea that he can see through solid objects, and hear BA from over a city away. There were no strawmen. Again you want to take one thing, and enlarge it to cover the BS that you want others to believe. Gladiator is just as powerful as BA, but he has more tools. I could see if BA was a better fighter, but that isn't the case here. What else do you have? Exactly nothing.

Adam took MM's Martian vision and although it did hurt, it didn't take him out. He also was pummled by Onimar Synn (Trans) and got knocked to the moon. Gladiator isn't taking Adam down.

Zack M
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
HV. Note, that BA is power sharing here:

http://i.imgur.com/FJ2n0IS.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/104108/3589682-05.jpg

BA is starting to burn, yes....but he's not getting holes blasted in him. Even when weakened, and with a PG out for the kill. He would be fine here.

But since we're feat sharing, if Glads gets Supes' freeze breath feats, then surely BA gets Shazam's feats? Especially as they're the same company, same magic etc?

In that case, BA gets this pretty amazing feat from Billy. Same invulnerability, after all:

http://i.imgur.com/CdUkPQv.jpg

Also, how does Glads fare against lightning?
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/MastersonThorvsGladiator04.jpg

Sucker shot? Sure. But even if he braced...I mean, if you told me I was going to get hit by lightning, all the prep in the world would still hurt me.

thumb up

Stoic
Originally posted by Zack M
Adam took MM's Martian vision and although it did hurt, it didn't take him out. He also was pummled by Onimar Synn (Trans) and got knocked to the moon. Gladiator isn't taking Adam down.

What does that have to do with being blasted in the eyes by a guy that has no problem with killing his opponent? MM has the same character as Superman, while Gladiator shares the same regards for life while in battle as Lobo does. Gladiator would have no problem with crippling BA with a dose of laser vision to the eyes. After all he did try to burn the Hulk's heart out of his chest without even thinking about it.

Delta1938
Originally posted by Stoic
It's only irony because you decided to take one thing that i said, and attempt to run with it. In so doing you also decided that it was an opportune time to insult my intelligence. Either deal with my entire statement or continue cherry picking to the point of looking pedantic. Like I said keep running in circles.

It's irony because you're doing the shit you're accusing me of doing. I give absolutely no ****s about your other arguments because I asked a question of what feats Gladiator has with his freeze breath, I have not been arguing the topic AS A WHOLE. You failed to answer, instead strawman, and focus on everything but my question. You seem to be arguing because I'm not accepting your argument based on nothing but assumption(unless there are feats which you've been not citing for whatever reason, but I doubt that's the case).

For an analogy, it's like you're saying Fighter X beats Damian Maia(a multi-time world Jiu-Jitsu/submission wrestling champion) and one of your arguments is he submits Maia. I ask you what has he done to make you think he can submit one of the most accomplished submission grapplers to go into MMA. You keep bringing-up X's speed, power, takedown defense, technique, athleticism and striking versatility, and bring-up he's trained in submissions.

I say all of that is irrelevant, and ask what submission grappling credentials he has, or who he has submitted that's noteworthy in that department. You go on a rant about me ignoring everything else and say I shouldn't dismiss he'll submit Maia just because he hasn't trained as long in submissions. Yeah, that's pretty much what this has been like.

If Gladiator has even one feat that's comparable to Superman in freeze breath, your argument would have merit. If it doesn't, having "the same power" ain't gonna cut it dude. By that logic I can say that U.S. Agent beats the shit out of Hulk, Thanos, Gladiator and Thor combined in a slugfest because he has the same power. And you'd be a hypocrite to argue otherwise.

Originally posted by Stoic
You did? I was under the impression that you trolled. Close enough i guess.

I'm not trolling. I simply laughed because his post was funny, while simultaneously being a valid point.

Zack M
Originally posted by Stoic
What does that have to do with being blasted in the eyes by a guy that has no problem with killing his opponent? MM has the same character as Superman, while Gladiator shares the same regards for life while in battle as Lobo does. Gladiator would have no problem with crippling BA with a dose of laser vision to the eyes. After all he did try to burn the Hulk's heart out of his chest without even thinking about it.

He's not going to. Adam has been blasted by heat vision and Martian vision and it did nothing, while Gladiator hasn't taken a full blast of magic lightning. Adam wins this.

Zack M
Stop trolling, Stoic. Your reasons are shit.

Stoic
Originally posted by Delta1938
It's irony because you're doing the shit you're accusing me of doing. I give absolutely no ****s about your other arguments because I asked a question of what feats Gladiator has with his freeze breath, I have not been arguing the topic AS A WHOLE. You failed to answer, instead strawman, and focus on everything but my question. You seem to be arguing because I'm not accepting your argument based on nothing but assumption(unless there are feats which you've been not citing for whatever reason, but I doubt that's the case).

For an analogy, it's like you're saying Fighter X beats Damian Maia(a multi-time world Jiu-Jitsu/submission wrestling champion) and one of your arguments is he submits Maia. I ask you what has he done to make you think he can submit one of the most accomplished submission grapplers to go into MMA. You keep bringing-up X's speed, power, takedown defense, technique, athleticism and striking versatility, and bring-up he's trained in submissions.

I say all of that is irrelevant, and ask what submission grappling credentials he has, or who he has submitted that's noteworthy in that department. You go on a rant about me ignoring everything else and say I shouldn't dismiss he'll submit Maia just because he hasn't trained as long in submissions. Yeah, that's pretty much what this has been like.

If Gladiator has even one feat that's comparable to Superman in freeze breath, your argument would have merit. If it doesn't, having "the same power" ain't gonna cut it dude. By that logic I can say that U.S. Agent beats the shit out of Hulk, Thanos, Gladiator and Thor combined in a slugfest because he has the same power. And you'd be a hypocrite to argue otherwise.



I'm not trolling. I simply laughed because his post was funny, while simultaneously being a valid point.

Because you brought up one thing that i stated, and made it the issue when I gave a number of reasons why I gave Gladiator a slight nod. This in turn made your entire stance pedantic. You asked I answered. I asked and you kept on with the same stance. Should I ask again? I think I will.

1. Who has beaten Gladiator so bad that makes you believe that BA is his superior.

2. What stops Gladiator from blinding him the moment that the fight begins.

3. Gladiator has a few advantages due to power set. Yes or No?

Now once you answer those questions, especially the last one, you may see how his freeze breath, coupled with the rest of his powers could, and should give him a slight edge over BA.

Zack M
Originally posted by Stoic
Because you brought up one thing that i stated, and made it the issue when I gave a number of reasons why I gave Gladiator a slight nod. This in turn made your entire stance pedantic. You asked I answered. I asked and you kept on with the same stance. Should I ask again? I think I will.

1. Who has beaten Gladiator so bad that makes you believe that BA is his superior.

2. What stops Gladiator from blinding him the moment that the fight begins.

3. Gladiator has a few advantages due to power set. Yes or No?

Now once you answer those questions, especially the last one, you may see how his freeze breath, coupled with the rest of his powers could, and should give him a slight edge over BA.

When has Gladiator used his vision to blind someone? Or kill? What top tier has he killed?

Stoic
Originally posted by Zack M
Stop trolling, Stoic. Your reasons are shit.

My answers are shit? Dude you have two Marvel clones that argue just you you do. Why in the world would anyone ever take anything that you say seriously? When I see your name in a thread, I know that 95% of the time what your going to say, before i even enter the thread. What? You're answer is usually DC character wins.

Delta1938
Originally posted by Stoic
Because you brought up one thing that i stated, and made it the issue when I gave a number of reasons why I gave Gladiator a slight nod. This in turn made your entire stance pedantic. You asked I answered. I asked and you kept on with the same stance. Should I ask again? I think I will.

1. Who has beaten Gladiator so bad that makes you believe that BA is his superior.

2. What stops Gladiator from blinding him the moment that the fight begins.

3. Gladiator has a few advantages due to power set. Yes or No?

Now once you answer those questions, especially the last one, you may see how his freeze breath, coupled with the rest of his powers could, and should give him a slight edge over BA.

If I had said, "Adam wins" and then questioned your entire argument based on the freeze breath thing, you'd have a point. I did not. You made a claim, I asked what feats to support Gladiator slowing Black Adam down with freeze breath has, and you've gone on a rant about me ignoring everything else you've said.

But no, you've been ranting and complaining and coming-up with conspiracy theories to justify yourself while dodging my original question.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Stoic
So if BA can use his magic against Glads, why can't Glads look into his eyes before he even opens his mouth and fry his eyes at the speed of light? If this is a quick draw, Glads would win. In this case they both know what each other can do if we go by forum ruling. Since we are going by forum rules, Gladiator would actually be able to hit BA first with his laser vision.



It's only irony because you decided to take one thing that i said, and attempt to run with it. In so doing you also decided that it was an opportune time to insult my intelligence. Either deal with my entire statement or continue cherry picking to the point of looking pedantic. Like I said keep running in circles.

Because whilst BA has used lightning before, Glads has not HVd people's eyes out. Otherwise, ill just say Flash plucks everyone's eyes out in every match, or Zoom does etc.

Also, did you see my other scans. If we're crossing feats,Billy has been turned inside out and back again...and lived. Adam could do the same.

Not to mention, HVhas already been tried against BA. He was weakened, she was out for the kill...you can see that even though his hair wasn't the target of her HV, it was still burning.

His eyes, however, were not.

Proof that his eyes aren't more vulnerable to HV as one would assume.

Zack M
Originally posted by Stoic
My answers are shit? Dude you have two Marvel clones that argue just you you do. Why in the world would anyone ever take anything that you say seriously? When I see your name in a thread, I know that 95% of the time what your going to say, before i even enter the thread. What? You're answer is usually DC character wins.

Yes, the whole heat vision is stupid. Adam has a huge durability advantage and has ALREADY tanked said attack, among other uber opponents like Onimar. It's not going to work.

Stoic
Originally posted by Zack M
When has Gladiator used his vision to blind someone? Or kill? What top tier has he killed?

He burned a hole in the Hulk's hide, and if the Hulk didn't have a HF he would have died. You could see his heart.

Zack M
Originally posted by Stoic
He burned a hole in the Hulk's hide, and if the Hulk didn't have a HF he would have died. You could see his heart.

Adam is more durable and he didn't kill the Hulk. NEXT!

Stoic
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because whilst BA has used lightning before, Glads has not HVd people's eyes out. Otherwise, ill just say Flash plucks everyone's eyes out in every match, or Zoom does etc.

Also, did you see my other scans. If we're crossing feats,Billy has been turned inside out and back again...and lived. Adam could do the same.

Not to mention, HVhas already been tried against BA. He was weakened, she was out for the kill...you can see that even though his hair wasn't the target of her HV, it was still burning.

His eyes, however, were not.

Proof that his eyes aren't more vulnerable to HV as one would assume.

Does that mean that BA can not be defeated? Anyways I truly wish you luck. BA is not and has never been unbeatable. Some things that happen in comics are PIS. In a forum match, Gladiator could laser his eyes, and beat him into a KO'd state while he tried to recover. However the BA that's being used here happens to be invulnerable to attacks that would harm any top tier. Whatever though. I'm done with the head games, better things to do.

DarkSaint85
I'll be honest, I always thought Hulk had a relatively poor durability, and it was his HF that was top notch.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Stoic
Does that mean that BA can not be defeated? Anyways I truly wish you luck. BA is not and has never been unbeatable. Some things that happen in comics are PIS. In a forum match, Gladiator could laser his eyes, and beat him into a KO'd state while he tried to recover. However the BA that's being used here happens to be invulnerable to attacks that would harm any top tier. Whatever though. I'm done with the head games, better things to do.

Fair enough.

Delta1938
Originally posted by Stoic
Does that mean that BA can not be defeated? Anyways I truly wish you luck. BA is not and has never been unbeatable. Some things that happen in comics are PIS. In a forum match, Gladiator could laser his eyes, and beat him into a KO'd state while he tried to recover. However the BA that's being used here happens to be invulnerable to attacks that would harm any top tier. Whatever though. I'm done with the head games, better things to do.

Head games? laughing

Zack M
laughing out loud So Stoic's great example was Hulk who he did not kill and is less durable than Adam? laughing out loud Good going, Stoic!

DarkSaint85
Guys, he's left now.....no need to wallow. Its unseemly, we're not LoB.....

Delta1938
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Guys, he's left now.....no need to wallow. Its unseemly, we're not LoB.....

I replied only a few minutes after.

mad mad mad mad mad mad mad mad mad mad

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So if you told me, hey, DS, Manny Pacquiao is going to punch you as hard as he can, brace for it!

And I brace.....you're saying I'd be able to laugh it off? Tank it?

What about Tyson in his prime? If I'm allowed to brace for his best haymaker, I can take it?

The pertinent point here is not that Thor had help, or used Mjolnir, or whatever. The point was, normal (i.e. non magical) lightning was sufficient to stun Glads. Shazam lightning is pretty damn potent on top of that, PLUS is magical to boot. And can be spammed.

Do you have Gladiator durability?

carver9
Originally posted by Zack M
laughing out loud So Stoic's great example was Hulk who he did not kill and is less durable than Adam? laughing out loud Good going, Stoic!

Less durable than Adam?

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
Do you have Gladiator durability?

I am human, he is human. I'd be Low Street, probably, and Manny/Tyson would be High, but still, Street tier.

Living Lightning is....what, Meta? Mid/High.

Gladiator is the highest of heralds. Not to mention, see my post about his confidence. Him not expecting the sucker punch would actually mean his confidence levels are sky high.

Sin I AM
http://i.imgur.com/Vs778Hh.jpg

DarkSaint85
I guess all Glads needs is his trusty water tower as standard equip thumb up

Delta1938
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I guess all Glads needs is his trusty water tower as standard equip thumb up

And a device to bring in an alternate universe Gladiator. stick out tongue

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I am human, he is human. I'd be Low Street, probably, and Manny/Tyson would be High, but still, Street tier.

Living Lightning is....what, Meta? Mid/High.

Gladiator is the highest of heralds. Not to mention, see my post about his confidence. Him not expecting the sucker punch would actually mean his confidence levels are sky high.

If a scrawny teenager catch you off guard with a punch to the face, it will hurt a lot more than you being aware of said attack. A blind side is one of the worst ways of being hit. Thor hit Gladiator with a blast before living lightning and it bounced off of him. His attacks was ineffective. The ONLY time he was able to damage Glads was with a sneak attack that stunned him.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
If a scrawny teenager catch you off guard with a punch to the face, it will hurt a lot more than you being aware of said attack. A blind side is one of the worst ways of being hit. Thor hit Gladiator with a blast before living lightning and it bounced off of him. His attacks was ineffective. The ONLY time he was able to damage Glads was with a sneak attack that stunned him.


I see what you mean.

So if I braced for the punch, my chin would be harder. Tyson in his prime, still in the same tier as me (unlike Living Lightning/Glads) would be unable to affect me. If I got a knife, and someone slashed me, all I need to do is brace against it, and it would bounce off me. I see.

Actually, I know exactly what you're going to argue. Piercing damage is different, etc etc. We're talking about energy attacks here.

Let's use an iron. A nice, hot iron. Are you saying if I braced myself, it would burn me less? Egads!

Also, I see you ignored my point about Gladiator and his confidence powers.

I shall repeat it here for you.

Gladiator's powers are based on how confident he is. Yes/No?
Was he looking confident at the end of the battle, with Thor on the ground, a sh!t eating smirk on Glad's face, fist on hips? Yes/No?

MY durability does not go up with my confidence. Glads' does. He was winning, he was confident, and at thheight of his powers.

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I see what you mean.

So if I braced for the punch, my chin would be harder. Tyson in his prime, still in the same tier as me (unlike Living Lightning/Glads) would be unable to affect me. If I got a knife, and someone slashed me, all I need to do is brace against it, and it would bounce off me. I see.

Actually, I know exactly what you're going to argue. Piercing damage is different, etc etc. We're talking about energy attacks here.

Let's use an iron. A nice, hot iron. Are you saying if I braced myself, it would burn me less? Egads!

Also, I see you ignored my point about Gladiator and his confidence powers.

I shall repeat it here for you.

Gladiator's powers are based on how confident he is. Yes/No?
Was he looking confident at the end of the battle, with Thor on the ground, a sh!t eating smirk on Glad's face, fist on hips? Yes/No?

MY durability does not go up with my confidence. Glads' does. He was winning, he was confident, and at thheight of his powers.

So in your opinion a sneak attack is as effective as an attack someone is aware of? A lot of comic characters have been dropped by sneak attacks. Even the strongest like Hulk, Thor, and Superman has been koed by peers with a single hit. I wouldn't hold it against them since we know what would happen in an upfront scenario. It's a sneak attack, no matter how you look at it. If Gladiator was prepared for this attack, it wouldn't have stopped him.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
So in your opinion a sneak attack is as effective as an attack someone is aware of? A lot of comic characters have been dropped by sneak attacks. Even the strongest like Hulk, Thor, and Superman has been koed by peers with a single hit. I wouldn't hold it against them since we know what would happen in an upfront scenario. It's a sneak attack, no matter how you look at it. If Gladiator was prepared for this attack, it wouldn't have stopped him.

Ordinarily, no. It also depends on the attack. An iron is still going to transfer the same amount of heat energy to my face, whether I am prepared or not. Agree?

Hulk/Thor/Superman etc don't have confidence based powers. If they lose their confidence, they don't get weaker, and if they are feeling super confident, they don't get stronger. Agree?

Gladiator had BEATEN Thor. Thor was on the ground, helpless. Gladiator was being super smug. Super confident. IOW, your use of Hulk/Thor//Supes is misleading, because Gladiator would perform best under sneak attack conditions - because he's feeling safe in his victory. Agree?

You then have to answer my point - where would you place Living Lightning. You said Supes/Thor/Hulk have been Koed by their peers - does this mean you believe Lightning to be HH?

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
So in your opinion a sneak attack is as effective as an attack someone is aware of? A lot of comic characters have been dropped by sneak attacks. Even the strongest like Hulk, Thor, and Superman has been koed by peers with a single hit. I wouldn't hold it against them since we know what would happen in an upfront scenario. It's a sneak attack, no matter how you look at it. If Gladiator was prepared for this attack, it wouldn't have stopped him.

Let's test this theory by me throwing boiling oil on you, first you being prepared, then you're not prepared. Happy Dance

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ordinarily, no. It also depends on the attack. An iron is still going to transfer the same amount of heat energy to my face, whether I am prepared or not. Agree?

Hulk/Thor/Superman etc don't have confidence based powers. If they lose their confidence, they don't get weaker, and if they are feeling super confident, they don't get stronger. Agree?

Gladiator had BEATEN Thor. Thor was on the ground, helpless. Gladiator was being super smug. Super confident. IOW, your use of Hulk/Thor//Supes is misleading, because Gladiator would perform best under sneak attack conditions - because he's feeling safe in his victory. Agree?

You then have to answer my point - where would you place Living Lightning. You said Supes/Thor/Hulk have been Koed by their peers - does this mean you believe Lightning to be HH?

Even though Gladiator confidence is up, that doesn't mean be can not be hurt.

In that issue, I would say Living Lightning was pretty high in power. Remember, Thor hits/attacks were doing nothing (and Thor is a legit high Herald). Living Lightning (even though it was a sneak attack) was able to do something that Thor, even in a prolong fight, was unable to achieve and that was stun Gladiator.

Star428
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ordinarily, no. It also depends on the attack. An iron is still going to transfer the same amount of heat energy to my face, whether I am prepared or not. Agree?



True. However, if you know it's coming then you can mentally prepare for the pain psychologically and overcome the effects better (even if only minimally) than if you were totally surprised. It would still hurt like Hell, of course, but the mind's control over the body isn't to be underestimated.

It should be obvious to everyone that a sucker shot has a much greater chance of KO'ing someone than if the recipient knows it's coming.

carver9
Originally posted by Delta1938
Let's test this theory by me throwing boiling oil on you, first you being prepared, then you're not prepared. Happy Dance


Lol...really?

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
Even though Gladiator confidence is up, that doesn't mean be can not be hurt.

In that issue, I would say Living Lightning was pretty high in power. Remember, Thor hits/attacks were doing nothing (and Thor is a legit high Herald). Living Lightning (even though it was a sneak attack) was able to do something that Thor, even in a prolong fight, was unable to achieve and that was stun Gladiator.

True, it does not mean he cannot be hurt - but it DOES mean it should be more difficult to hurt him , than say, if he was expecting an attack and bracing for it. Why brace, after all, unless you thought it could hurt you?

So IYO, Living Lightning was trans (the next step up from HH)?

After all, he managed to stun and stagger a fully confident Gladiator with ONE hit. Something that, as you have said, a legit HH was unable to do in a prolonged fight. That might even be higher than Trans - one hit, after all.

OK.

Living Lightning for Trans/Skyfather, I guess. Glad we got this sorted. And also, a fully confident Glads is less durable than a Glads who expects to be hurt by an attack.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Star428
True. However, if you know it's coming then you can mentally prepare for the pain psychologically and overcome the effects better (even if only minimally) than if you were totally surprised. It would still hurt like Hell, of course, but the mind's control over the body isn't to be underestimated.

It should be obvious to everyone that a sucker shot has a much greater chance of KO'ing someone than if the recipient knows it's coming.

The difference is that it's Gladiator. Who gets more powerful/durable the more confident he is.

Having just survived a prolonged encounter with Thor,no, WON, a prolonged encounter, and seeing your enemy lying helpless at your feet....your confidence is sky high. Thus, your durability is also sky high.

Star428
Yeah, I'm not arguing that Gladiator doesn't get more powerful the more confident he gets. I think that's common knowledge that he does. I still don't think it's enough to beat Adam though.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Star428
Yeah, I'm not arguing that Gladiator doesn't get more powerful the more confident he gets. I think that's common knowledge that he does. I still don't think it's enough to beat Adam though.

Fair enough.

I've just said that even when his confidence was high, he was stunned by the Living Lightning. Who, I'd wager, is not all that when compared the the lightning of Shazam.

BA is a raging beast, and seeing him tanking hits/powers would likely sap his confidence.

So we have a more powerful lightning attack, and a weaker Gladiator in this fight than compared to the Thor fight.

But apparently, according to Carver, Living Lightning is trans/skyfather lol.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by Star428
Yeah, I'm not arguing that Gladiator doesn't get more powerful the more confident he gets. I think that's common knowledge that he does. I still don't think it's enough to beat Adam though.

Lol, he has better strength feats and his strength is dynamic. I don't understand what the argument for BA is. Hell, he's gotten the best of Thor.

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
True, it does not mean he cannot be hurt - but it DOES mean it should be more difficult to hurt him , than say, if he was expecting an attack and bracing for it. Why brace, after all, unless you thought it could hurt you?

So IYO, Living Lightning was trans (the next step up from HH)?

After all, he managed to stun and stagger a fully confident Gladiator with ONE hit. Something that, as you have said, a legit HH was unable to do in a prolonged fight. That might even be higher than Trans - one hit, after all.

OK.

Living Lightning for Trans/Skyfather, I guess. Glad we got this sorted. And also, a fully confident Glads is less durable than a Glads who expects to be hurt by an attack.

If you are expecting an attack, you'll be more prepared for it than being hit by a surprise attack.

Why trans? High Heralds has koed other High Heralds with single hits. Stun is one thing but outright koing someone is another. Heralds can do this to each other.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
If you are expecting an attack, you'll be more prepared for it than being hit by a surprise attack.

Why trans? High Heralds has koed other High Heralds with single hits. Stun is one thing but outright koing someone is another. Heralds can do this to each other.

So Living Lightning is HH? I said trans because you said he did in one hit where a legit HH was unable to do in prolonged combat.

Not just any HH, either. It was Gladiator, and LL also did better than Thor. Two of the top guys in HHs tier.

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Fair enough.

I've just said that even when his confidence was high, he was stunned by the Living Lightning. Who, I'd wager, is not all that when compared the the lightning of Shazam.

BA is a raging beast, and seeing him tanking hits/powers would likely sap his confidence.

So we have a more powerful lightning attack, and a weaker Gladiator in this fight than compared to the Thor fight.

But apparently, according to Carver, Living Lightning is trans/skyfather lol.

Gladiator confidence has never wavered fighting a peer. The only time it drops is when he face people that shouldn't stand a chance against him (Reed and Cannonball) but yet, they do things that shouldn't happen...withstand his blows.

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
Lol...really?

Yes. Let's compare how well you taking boiling oil prepared, and then not prepared. We must do this.....FOR SCIENCE!!!!!

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So Living Lightning is HH? I said trans because you said he did in one hit where a legit HH was unable to do in prolonged combat.

Not just any HH, either. It was Gladiator, and LL also did better than Thor. Two of the top guys in HHs tier.

Whatever manipulation Thor did to Living Lightning made his energy output strong enough to do something he was unable to do.

If you're asking if Adam lightning could affect Gladiator, yes, it can...sad thing is, Adam rarely if ever use it in combat.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
Gladiator confidence has never wavered fighting a peer. The only time it drops is when he face people that shouldn't stand a chance against him (Reed and Cannonball) but yet, they do things that shouldn't happen...withstand his blows.

Cassandra Nova. A Low Herald here. Shook him apart.

So you think when he uses HV, and BA can take it, it wouldn't plant the tiniest seed of doubt in his mind? OK.

I already showed scans of a weakened BA (rather severely, as it happens) BA taking a bloodlusted PG's HV. PG, whose HV has hurt KC Superman when she WASN'T bloodlusted.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
Whatever manipulation Thor did to Living Lightning made his energy output strong enough to do something he was unable to do.

If you're asking if Adam lightning could affect Gladiator, yes, it can...sad thing is, Adam rarely if ever use it in combat.

Proof? There is no dialogue suggesting otherwise. Or narration. Are you adding things that aren't there again, because it doesn't suit your worldview? You always do this.....

As for the times he has used it, he has used it more times than Glads has tanked lightning, so.......we both agree that as soon has it comes out (Wisdom of Zehuti, remember, integral to his powerset) Glads gets KO'd?

Remember how you argue that Hulk can go WBH in every fight - even though in his entire history, he does it incredibly rarely? Because it is integrally part of his powerset?

Be consistent. BA has the Wisdom, and the Power.

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Cassandra Nova. A Low Herald here. Shook him apart.

So you think when he uses HV, and BA can take it, it wouldn't plant the tiniest seed of doubt in his mind? OK.

I already showed scans of a weakened BA (rather severely, as it happens) BA taking a bloodlusted PG's HV. PG, whose HV has hurt KC Superman when she WASN'T bloodlusted.

Are you talking about telepathic Cassandra Nova? Gotcha.

No! It will not do a thing to him if Black Adam withstood his heat vision (which will not happen). When he fought Tyrant, Masterson, and Nova, all who've withstood his head vision, he did not lose confidence. The only time that happens is when he fight weaklings that withstood his power.

Martian Manhunter heat vision almost melt Black Adam face off. Imagine what Gladiator heat vision that is hotter than stars would do.

Martian Manhunter small dose of heat vision against an amped Adam.

http://s160.photobucket.com/user/EndlessMike9/media-full/Martian%20Manhunter/mmvsblackadam1.jpg.html

The results...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/139093/2954954-black+adam+vs+martian+manhunter.jpg

Delta1938
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Proof? There is no dialogue suggesting otherwise. Or narration. Are you adding things that aren't there again, because it doesn't suit your worldview? You always do this.....

As for the times he has used it, he has used it more times than Glads has tanked lightning, so.......we both agree that as soon has it comes out (Wisdom of Zehuti, remember, integral to his powerset) Glads gets KO'd?

Remember how you argue that Hulk can go WBH in every fight - even though in his entire history, he does it incredibly rarely? Because it is integrally part of his powerset?

Be consistent. BA has the Wisdom, and the Power.

Now I know why Carter says he owns you all the time and he's going to change his name to "Dark Crusher." He gets owned so badly he's temporarily knocked into an alternate universe where his competent doppelganger actually wins debates. For the few moments that doppelganger is stuck here, he must wonder what's going on.

carver9
Originally posted by Delta1938
Now I know why Carter says he owns you all the time and he's going to change his name to "Dark Crusher." He gets owned so badly he's temporarily knocked into an alternate universe where his competent doppelganger actually wins debates. For the few moments that doppelganger is stuck here, he must wonder what's going on.


Lol...I could be destroying someone in a debate and you would never give me my props. Stop making Darksaint feel good on lies.

DarkSaint85
Ha. that's not HV. It's Martian Vision. It's different. Try again.

How was BA amped, anyway?

Plus, you just posted scans of Martian vision being used....against BA who wasn't trying to hurt him badly. And massacring him. Is that how you see this fight going, too?

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ha. that's not HV. It's Martian Vision. It's different. Try again.

How was BA amped, anyway?

Plus, you just posted scans of Martian vision being used....against BA who wasn't trying to hurt him badly. And massacring him. Is that how you see this fight going, too?

Martian Vision is a form of heat vision to my recollection.

He had an additional power added to his already existing power. Amped.

In the same fight it was said that Adam doesn't hold back. He was not holding back.

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
Lol...I could be destroying someone in a debate and you would never give me my props. Stop making Darksaint feel good on lies.

When I see that alternate universe Carver instead of the Carter from our world, I'll give him props for destroying someone.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
Martian Vision is a form of heat vision to my recollection.

He had an additional power added to his already existing power. Amped.

In the same fight it was said that Adam doesn't hold back. He was not holding back.

A form - but its not 100% the same. Hence why it is called Martian Vision, and not HV (Superman doesn't call it Kryptonian vision, for example).

Who's? Please don't say Isis, because her power came from him giving his power to her.

In the same fight - have you read his words to MM? In your own scans? The words he says to MM? When next we meet, my wrath will devour you?

DarkSaint85
Amped BA uses lightning that can recreate the Multiverse. Gladiator would be instantly fried.

DarkSaint85
Proof that BA power shared with Isis:

http://i.imgur.com/FJ2n0IS.jpg

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by carver9
Gladiator confidence has never wavered fighting a peer. The only time it drops is when he face people that shouldn't stand a chance against him (Reed and Cannonball) but yet, they do things that shouldn't happen...withstand his blows.

Against Thor, Supreme and Hyperion, he was fine. BA won't shake him a bit.

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
A form - but its not 100% the same. Hence why it is called Martian Vision, and not HV (Superman doesn't call it Kryptonian vision, for example).

Who's? Please don't say Isis, because her power came from him giving his power to her.

In the same fight - have you read his words to MM? In your own scans? The words he says to MM? When next we meet, my wrath will devour you?

Its a heat attack that the Martians can do as shown here.

http://static.comicvine.com/api/image/original/2646973-1.png

Later on in the same issue this was called Martian Vision.

Yes, Isis.

That doesn't mean Black Adam was holding back...something that he rarely does. That fight wouldn't have went as long if Adam held back. He said that as a threat of killing MM next time. Not that he was pulling his punches.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by Delta1938
Now I know why Carter says he owns you all the time and he's going to change his name to "Dark Crusher." He gets owned so badly he's temporarily knocked into an alternate universe where his competent doppelganger actually wins debates. For the few moments that doppelganger is stuck here, he must wonder what's going on.


Dude, shut the hell up with the personal trolling. Are you scared of Carver or something? Stop looking for allies, just stay on topic.

Delta1938
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Dude, shut the hell up with the personal trolling. Are you scared of Carver or something? Stop looking for allies, just stay on topic.

I don't think you could do a better job about proving me right than this.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
Its a heat attack that the Martians can do as shown here.

http://static.comicvine.com/api/image/original/2646973-1.png

Later on in the same issue this was called Martian Vision.

Yes, Isis.

That doesn't mean Black Adam was holding back...something that he rarely does. That fight wouldn't have went as long if Adam held back. He said that as a threat of killing MM next time. Not that he was pulling his punches.

That it has a heat component, I 100% agree with you.

That it is 100% HV, I do NOT. Hence why it is Martian Vision, which you yourself acknowledge is a FORM of HV, not HV alone.

Well I have posted a scan narrating BA was power sharing with Isis and her little bro. Have you got any evidence that he was amped? I await your scans.

Oh, OK. So he was fighting MM, but not out to kill him. Apparently, that does not mean you're pulling your punches. He RARELY holds back, I agree - but he did so there with MM, a kindred spirit. The only proof you have that he wasn't holding back in that fight was MM's word - whereas BA's words trump that.

JBL
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Against Thor, Supreme and Hyperion, he was fine. BA won't shake him a bit. Tyrant himself could not shake Gladiator and tyrant would rape the entire JLA.

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That it has a heat component, I 100% agree with you.

That it is 100% HV, I do NOT. Hence why it is Martian Vision, which you yourself acknowledge is a FORM of HV, not HV alone.

Well I have posted a scan narrating BA was power sharing with Isis and her little bro. Have you got any evidence that he was amped? I await your scans.

Oh, OK. So he was fighting MM, but not out to kill him. Apparently, that does not mean you're pulling your punches. He RARELY holds back, I agree - but he did so there with MM, a kindred spirit. The only proof you have that he wasn't holding back in that fight was MM's word - whereas BA's words trump that.

Black Adam face was melting...what else in his Martian vision could've done that besides heat. The heat of the attack melted his face.

Wasn't she powerless when Black Adam had her powers. Iirc, he took everything.

What does him holding back or not have to do with his face melting off anyways. That's irrelevant to the topic. Heat based attacks does damage to Adam, especially when it's aimed at the face.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
Black Adam face was melting...what else in his Martian vision could've done that besides heat. The heat of the attack melting his face.

Wasn't she powerless when Black Adam had her powers. Iirc, he took everything.

What does him holding back or not have to do with his face melting off anyways. That's irrelevant to the topic. Heat based attacks does damage to Adam, especially when it's aimed at the face.

Like I said - it has heat. It also has other components to it. Unlike you, I do not speculate and add things that aren't there.

We KNOW that PURE HV (from a bloodlusted PG) against a weakened BA, did not melt him. Unless you want to add more speculation, and say his chest skin is different from his face skin? Please do.

Therefore, whatever else Martian Vision has, has that added 'kick'. Which, if Gladiator does not possess it, makes your scan with MM moot.

Just a scan showing he had extra powers (or extra power) from Isis would be fine, then I would concede it. A scan, preferably not from a bio, lol.

Zack M
Yeah, apparently Martian vision is psionic in nature, so using the example is moot.

abhilegend
Under Ostrander who wrote that scene, Malefic nearly killed Wonder Woman in one blast of Martian vision.

Ostrander wrote a very high version of J'onn. The fact that Adam beat the shit out of him in three punches shows how powerful he was at that point.

Sin I AM
Iirc didn't Teth power share with both Isis and Osiris? Then the gator guy killed the brother which gave him that share back then isis died which put him at normal levels. It's been awhile since i read ww3

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by abhilegend
Under Ostrander who wrote that scene, Malefic nearly killed Wonder Woman in one blast of Martian vision.

Ostrander wrote a very high version of J'onn. The fact that Adam beat the shit out of him in three punches shows how powerful he was at that point.




Wait a second, so the writer matters when quantifying feats? I want this on record.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Iirc didn't Teth power share with both Isis and Osiris? Then the gator guy killed the brother which gave him that share back then isis died which put him at normal levels. It's been awhile since i read ww3

Thats what ive always said when ppl said Adam was amped. At that time, he wasnt.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Iirc didn't Teth power share with both Isis and Osiris? Then the gator guy killed the brother which gave him that share back then isis died which put him at normal levels. It's been awhile since i read ww3

You and I are connecting on such a deep level right now. 100% agree.

http://s17.postimg.org/sq8nbmonz/1847576_1001420_sc002e6220.jpg

abhilegend
Originally posted by jrodslam
Thats what ive always said when ppl said Adam was amped. At that time, he wasnt.
Teth didn't share his powers with Isis. It came from a different amulet.

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