Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

"Indeed, more than 15,000 of the email addresses used to register accounts were hosted on government and military servers.

Buried in the list are emails that could be tied to multiple administration agencies, including the State Department and Department of Homeland Security, as well as several tied to both the House and Senate. "

http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/251431-ashley-madison-leak-appears-real-includes-thousands-of-government-emails


15,000 emails leveled by hackers were government emails including State Department Officials.

These people deserve whatever happens to them.

Which people? The ones that got their privacy destroyed regardless of immoral deeds?

Ut-oh

Originally posted by psmith81992
Which people? The ones that got their privacy destroyed regardless of immoral deeds?
Am I supposed to feel bad for them?

Joining an adultery site and expecting it to never get hacked is just idiotic. I'm all for internet privacy, but the fact is that it doesn't really exist with hackers, so don't do anything on the internet that could possibly ruin your life if it got out.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Which people? The ones that got their privacy destroyed regardless of immoral deeds?



He is probably ok with the government spying on us/invading our privacy as well.

Try not to push people to the extremes. It's rarely correct. He's saying that they should have known better; he's not absolving the hackers.

Known better or not isn't the issue though, while I don't agree with cheating on ones' spouse, it's not illegal and my personal morals shouldn't be the deciding factor.

Is this really so different than some ******* hacking a hospital database and posting people's (possibly embarrassing) medical records online and then others saying 'oh well, you should have known the risk of telling your doctor in this day and age that you have genital warts and a prolapsed rectum'?

Invasion of privacy is what I'm getting at, it's usually wrong. Though I will admit I found a high level of schadenfreude when I read that Josh Duggar, the homophobic "Family Values" guy had an account and paid a substantial amount in trying to cheat on his wife. But he's a known rapist and a hypocrite, so I don't feel bad.

Originally posted by Robtard
Known better or not isn't the issue though, while I don't agree with cheating on ones' spouse, it's not illegal and my personal morals shouldn't be the deciding factor.

Is this really so different than some ******* hacking a hospital database and posting people's (possibly embarrassing) medical records online and then others saying 'oh well, you should have known the risk of telling your doctor in this day and age that you have genital warts and a prolapsed rectum'?

Invasion of privacy is what I'm getting at, it's usually wrong. Though I will admit I found a high level of schadenfreude when I read that Josh Duggar, the homophobic "Family Values" guy had an account and paid a substantial amount in trying to cheat on his wife. But he's a known rapist and a hypocrite, so I don't feel bad.

We already knew he was a creepy guy, this does not surprise me.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Am I supposed to feel bad for them?

Joining an adultery site and expecting it to never get hacked is just idiotic. I'm all for internet privacy, but the fact is that it doesn't really exist with hackers, so don't do anything on the internet that could possibly ruin your life if it got out.

You don't have to feel bad for them. But that's a far cry from "they got what they deserved". That's like me saying the exact same thing about illegal immigrants getting deported, which you would no doubt defend vigorously.

Yeah I have to agree with Robtard here. Whatever your personal judgement about it, people have a right to be adulterous and by extension a right to privacy about it. This leak was done to punish AM for shady practice but it's going to do a heck of a lot more to hurt the clients than the company.

In my experience adultery is a very complex area anyway. The very existence of a site like AM says a lot about the human condition- though the accusation that it was padding its membership with false (mostly female) profiles to encourage sign ups is very telling as well, if true.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
These people deserve whatever happens to them.

Oh ok I get it. If some people do things that are against my morals, they have less right to whatever it is than other people? If I dislike a rich person and his house gets burglarized, I don't give a crap because **** him, he's rich. But if it's a minority or illegal immigrant or god forbid a homosexual couple, BURN THE PERPETRATORS! The double standards are astounding.

Indeed.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Oh ok I get it. If some people do things that are against my morals, they have less right to whatever it is than other people? If I dislike a rich person and his house gets burglarized, I don't give a crap because **** him, he's rich. But if it's a minority or illegal immigrant or god forbid a homosexual couple, BURN THE PERPETRATORS! The double standards are astounding.
Lol, where the hell is this coming from?

Originally posted by psmith81992
Oh ok I get it. If some people do things that are against my morals, they have less right to whatever it is than other people? If I dislike a rich person and his house gets burglarized, I don't give a crap because **** him, he's rich. But if it's a minority or illegal immigrant or god forbid a homosexual couple, BURN THE PERPETRATORS! The double standards are astounding. What an emotional outburst this is.

Originally posted by NemeBro
What an emotional outburst this is.

Don't think you understand what an emotional outburst is. With your tiny brain, I assume anytime caps are used. I know fully well where OV is coming from. The point was pretty obvious, even if it went over your head.


What part did you not understand? Because you think adulterers (whether they've acted on it or just part of the site) are sleezy, therefore who cares about their information? I hate murderers but even those accused have the right to a fair trial. I hate adulterers but that doesn't excuse the privacy leak.

I have a hard time feeling bad too. Not because I agree with the hack - I don't - or because I don't see the need for privacy (I do). It's just hard to care about something I am so detached from. It's not hard to see why someone would feel indifferent toward this, even if, on a philosophical level, they abhor the hack. Trying to understand a position is usually more productive than painting them as a caricature of everything you disagree with.

And on that note, it seems this is already relevant again:

Originally posted by Digi
Try not to push people to the extremes. It's rarely correct. He's saying that they should have known better; he's not absolving the hackers.

Then what you're saying is, when signing up for something online, you should not have a reasonable expectation of privacy?

Originally posted by psmith81992
Oh ok I get it. If some people do things that are against my morals, they have less right to whatever it is than other people? If I dislike a rich person and his house gets burglarized, I don't give a crap because **** him, he's rich. But if it's a minority or illegal immigrant or god forbid a homosexual couple, BURN THE PERPETRATORS! The double standards are astounding.

I'm sorry, but this is utter bunk. Don't compare this to releasing hospital records, it is NOT THE SAME. Those hospital records are yours and only pertain to you. Cheating doesn't just pertain to you, you are forcing your partner to LIVE A LIE. So nah, this is not like the hospital thing. People have no right to steal years and years away from their spouse by having them live a lie.

Affairs destroy families, hospital records do not.

So yeah, I say kudos to the hackers. Now thousands of people will not have to live a lie due to their piece of shit spouse. These hackers did a public service and frankly any cheater whining over this exposure is a disgusting piece of shit.

You don't get to expect to have the right to destroy another persons life because you are too stupid to keep your pants on and your legs closed.

This guy proves my point with this utter nonsense. It has nothing to do with an immoral act. Its all about signing up to something online and havimg a reasonable expectations of privacy. Cheaters are scum and the hackers eill go to prizon if caught, as they should.

You know what I just don't care about the privacy of adulterous pieces of shit. I care more about the lives these destroyed. Stop acting like privacy is the be all end all of everything. Some shit is more important and I hate to break this to you: their privacy is less important then the overall quality of life of their partners. Sorry if that irks you, but it is true.

You don't get to rob someone of years, potentially decades, all under some silly ass "but privacy yo!" line of thought.

The ability to separate your morals from legality applied to US citizens is telling and emotional.

Surtur, this just translates to "I don't like these people so they should not have their privacy." That is exceptionally ethically dodgy.

Regardless of your opinion, people DO have the right to be adulterous- it is not illegal. What you say 'is true' is neither here nor there. And expectations of privacy must be universal- you cannot pick and choose about which legal acts come with a privacy expectation and which do not. That is very wrong indeed.

If you want to campaign to make adultery illegal, fine, though that would also be ridiculous. But it's not, and so people have the right to do this, and the right not to have their privacy breached in the process.

Can't believe Ush and I are on the same page.

Originally posted by psmith81992
The ability to separate your morals from legality applied to US citizens is telling and emotional.

But..I never said anything about illegalities. Just about the utter silliness of saying this is like releasing hospital records. I also said privacy matters less then peoples quality of life, but this doesn't equate to "it should be legal to hack".

So if we're talking about inability to separate things being "telling" well..

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Surtur, this just translates to "I don't like these people so they should not have their privacy." That is exceptionally ethically dodgy.

Regardless of your opinion, people DO have the right to be adulterous- it is not illegal. What you say 'is true' is neither here nor there. And expectations of privacy must be universal- you cannot pick and choose about which legal acts come with a privacy expectation and which do not. That is very wrong indeed.

If you want to campaign to make adultery illegal, fine, though that would also be ridiculous. But it's not, and so people have the right to do this, and the right not to have their privacy breached in the process.

Which would be all fine and dandy if I said I think it should be legal to hack things in certain situations, but..alas, I did not. I simply don't care about these peoples privacy. Or rather, I find them sucking the life out of their spouses for years and years to be of higher priority.

Don't care about legalities, do care about "totally like releasing hospital records" though.

In other words: not a single of shred of sympathy do I have for these cheaters. I applaud the hackers. No different then people here and how they spoke of riots and how sometimes they can be good or have good results, but they never said it should be legal.

Privacy matters more what are you talking about? The US separates itself from the rest of the world precisely because we have good privacy laws and a reasonable expectation of privacy. You don't get to say, "well screw them" when their morals don't agree with your delicate sensibilities.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Privacy matters more what are you talking about? The US separates itself from the rest of the world precisely because we have good privacy laws and a reasonable expectation of privacy. You don't get to say, "well screw them" when their morals don't agree with your delicate sensibilities.

Uh, are you insane? This is about opinions, so why the hell don't I get to think what I do? Did I miss the part where the OP said "only discuss legalities" ?

I don't think privacy matters more in this case, you do..which is fine. Also I'm delicate because I think cheaters are pieces of shit? Cool.

Ok, so your argument comes down totally to your hatred for adulterers and nothing to do with basic legal and civil rights for people.

Fine- I can pretty much discard its value then.

You see, it IS like releasing hospital records. This is you picking and choosing. You say it's different from releasing hospital records because adultery is wrong. Well, some people think those who have abortions have no right to privacy because it is wrong. That's where bringing personal judgement into this gets you. You can NOT pick and choose- that is not an ethical position.

They have a right to privacy. Your hatred for adulterers makes no difference. We should all care when such basic rights are breached- not only pick and chose those situations that suit us.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Ok, so your argument comes down totally to your hatred for adulterers and nothing to do with basic legal and civil rights for people.

Fine- I can pretty much discard its value then.

You see, it IS like releasing hospital records. This is you picking and choosing. You say "It;s different from releasing hospital records because adultery is wrong." Well, some people think those who have abortions have no right to privacy because it is wrong. That's where bringing personal judgement into this gets you. You can NOT pick and choose- that is not an ethical position.

They have a right to privacy. Your hatred for adulterers makes no difference. We should all care when such basic rights are breached- not only pick and chose those situations that suit us.

So holy shit, I never said it's not like releasing hospital records because adultery is wrong.

It's hard to draw any other conclusion- you said the difference is that it is 'forcing your partner to live a lie' and that 'affairs destroy families', which is pretty emotional language. You are saying that is not a moral judgement?

Wait so pointing out the very real consequences of affairs equates to a moral judgement? You think this is a "it's different from the hospital thing because cheating is bad" because what I feel about cheating is irrelevant. Even if I loved cheating it wouldn't preclude me from realizing it can royally mess up a family, emotionally, physically, financially.

Yes, using emotional language to decry what you see as the consequences of adultery (though in the case of destroyed families, I'd say in this case it is the hack doing that, because otherwise the families didn't know) is most definitely a moral judgement. You saying this makes no sense is exceptionally confusing to me. You immediately follow that up with another moral judgement. What do you think the word 'bad' means?

What it is not, as I keep emphasising, is illegal. People have the right to do it, so we cannot arbitrarily decide that they do not deserve privacy simply because we do not like it. Your opinion does not override their rights.

But the point was that the consequences of releasing hospital records aren't really the same...THAT was my point. Why is this so hard? I was talking about the consequences while you are still hung up on legalities.

I don't think that actually was your point; your point is quite clearly laid out at the top of this page, that you think people have a right to adultery. The moral case runs throughout your argument.

Releasing private information abut people that can wreck their lives is ethically wrong. It is identical in both cases.

Incidentally, you are exceptionally native if you think this data being released is a public service that will benefit people. This will only be destructive.

Well hey thanks for clearing up for me what my own point was. Maybe there are some other of my points you can flesh out for me?

You get judged by what you actually say, Surtur, not what you say you said. If you express yourself badly, do not blame the listener.

But no because if you're going to play that game I also said I wasn't talking about legalities.

So yes, I said a person doesn't have the right to steal your life, and then in another post I said I was specifically not talking about legalities.

Color me confused if we are going by what people say? Or is it only their first posts?

Just to reiterate, it needs to be said I don't pick and choose every single word I use in a post with massive amounts of care. Not that I don't think about it, but you don't always take into account how some people might take a certain thing. So the problem seems to come from when I said a person doesn't have the "right" to steal your life, etc. Again, this wasn't about legalities, I can see why some might think it was(which is why I said it wasn't about legalities later on).

Example: I say that a person doesn't have the right to go to a restaurant and fart in your face right as your dinner is being served. I am NOT TALKING ABOUT LEGAL RIGHTS. Just shit decent human beings shouldn't do. So yes, that part was about the morals of cheating, but point was not just about the morals, but about the destruction caused by affairs as opposed to releasing hospital records.

Hopefully this will clear some things up, but I will reiterate key points again to avoid confusion: it is not illegal to cheat or be a little piece of shit in life, I never said that was illegal and will never say that. It is not legal to hack things, even if I personally believe this hacking did more good then harm(opinions may vary).

Just want to say though I really hope you guys are as against the government breaching our privacy as you are about hackers doing it to cheaters. Since if there is never an excuse to do so, that applies to any reason the government might have.

Also as someone who has been cheated on in the past..yeah, probably best for everyone if I just dip out of this one now. I'll wind up banned before the day is over if I don't, so I'll just say one final piece:

Might not be illegal, but cheating is shady. Yeah, might not be the best thing for society for stuff to be hacked, but I just can't muster up any sympathy for these people. I am sure if anything else, the spouses of these people are glad the hackers did what they did and if it helps some people get some cheaters out of their lives? Meh, at least there is a huge ass silver lining here.

Cheating IS shady but you're missing the point again because this isn't about cheating.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
These people deserve whatever happens to them.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Oh ok I get it. If some people do things that are against my morals, they have less right to whatever it is than other people? If I dislike a rich person and his house gets burglarized, I don't give a crap because **** him, he's rich. But if it's a minority or illegal immigrant or god forbid a homosexual couple, BURN THE PERPETRATORS! The double standards are astounding.

Originally posted by NemeBro
What an emotional outburst this is.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Then what you're saying is, when signing up for something online, you should not have a reasonable expectation of privacy?

No, not at all. And I went out of my way to say this in my last post. You're seeing what you want to at this point. What we say almost doesn't matter.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Can't believe Ush and I are on the same page.



Yeah, for once, I finally agree with Ush too.

I signed up to satisfy wives of KMC.

Originally posted by Digi
No, not at all. And I went out of my way to say this in my last post. You're seeing what you want to at this point. What we say almost doesn't matter. Thats a killer cop out regardless of absurdity

Originally posted by psmith81992
Thats a killer cop out regardless of absurdity

You're going to have to elaborate on this. What's a cop out? All I'm saying is that I am espousing none of the things that you've claimed I am.

I'm wondering if you even noticed the question mark in this post? That means, "what do you mean, care to elaborate"? Your response is "you're not even listening so it doesn't matter what I've said you already made up your mind." THAT is a cop out.

Originally posted by psmith81992
I'm wondering if you even noticed the question mark in this post? That means, "what do you mean, care to elaborate"? Your response is "you're not even listening so it doesn't matter what I've said you already made up your mind." THAT is a cop out.

No, it's that I already answered the question in posts prior to this explicit question. Yes, obviously, people should have a reasonable expectation of privacy when signing up for something online. I think, much like Omega, that it's naive to assume it these days, but in a philosophical sense I agree that it should exist. And I don't see how my posts in this thread could be read any other way than as an affirmation of this general opinion.

srug

Originally posted by psmith81992
Don't think you understand what an emotional outburst is. With your tiny brain, I assume anytime caps are used. I know fully well where OV is coming from. The point was pretty obvious, even if it went over your head.


What part did you not understand? Because you think adulterers (whether they've acted on it or just part of the site) are sleezy, therefore who cares about their information? I hate murderers but even those accused have the right to a fair trial. I hate adulterers but that doesn't excuse the privacy leak.
I'm not talking about the ethics of hacking or whether internet privacy is holy or not, I'm simply saying I don't really pity the people who will suffer the fallout from this. Of their own free will they engaged in something they knew would ruin them if it ever came to light.

Also what the hell are you bringing up fair trials for murderers for? That's a total non-sequitir that has nothing to do with whether or not Ashley Madison users were idiots for trusting a major website never to get hacked when even the US Government can't keep all hackers out. The answer is: they are idiots.

Again: I'm not interested in debating the ethics of adultery, hacking, or internet privacy, I'm simply saying that these people were foolish and should have known better. I personally don't put anything on the internet that could destroy my whole life, and no one should if they have any sense.

I'm not pro-hacker, I just simply think people should always take hackers into account when putting information on the internet.

Nobody pities them but they WERE wronged. It seems to me that you don't much believe in the concept of "reasonable expectation of privacy", although it's very much. Or worse, you agree with surfur and ignore this whole logical argument because you don't respect adulterers.


It wasn't a non-sequitur on any level. It was a point of contention that ended up being surfur's argument (which I thought was yours as well), regarding ignoring the crime and adopting a "who cares" attitude because he was offended by the lack of morality.

Furthermore, if you're really this adamant about "idiots" trusting websites with their privacy (which is an ignorant statement itself), maybe you shouldn't be registered on KMC or anywhere for that matter? You realize how easy it would be to brute force into admin access, get your IP, and extrapolate all of your information? If you're as paranoid as you seem to be, you shouldn't be registered ANYWHERE, but I suspect this has nothing to do with that.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Nobody pities them but they WERE wronged. It seems to me that you don't much believe in the concept of "reasonable expectation of privacy", although it's very much. Or worse, you agree with surfur and ignore this whole logical argument because you don't respect adulterers.


It wasn't a non-sequitur on any level. It was a point of contention that ended up being surfur's argument (which I thought was yours as well), regarding ignoring the crime and adopting a "who cares" attitude because he was offended by the lack of morality.

Furthermore, if you're really this adamant about "idiots" trusting websites with their privacy (which is an ignorant statement itself), maybe you shouldn't be registered on KMC or anywhere for that matter? You realize how easy it would be to brute force into admin access, get your IP, and extrapolate all of your information? If you're as paranoid as you seem to be, you shouldn't be registered ANYWHERE, but I suspect this has nothing to do with that.
I don't have anything on KMC that could ruin my life. Thank you for trying to carry my argument to an extreme.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I don't have anything on KMC that could ruin my life. Thank you for trying to carry my argument to an extreme.


By your measure, any website can get hacked, major or minor. Therefore these people are "dolts" for having their information on the website. But whether it's their information or your IP address, all it takes is one hack for information to get out. There's nothing "extreme" about my argument, it just so happens to be your position.

Originally posted by psmith81992
By your measure, any website can get hacked, major or minor. Therefore these people are "dolts" for having their information on the website. But whether it's their information or your IP address, all it takes is one hack for information to get out. There's nothing "extreme" about my argument, it just so happens to be your position.
Lol no. I'm not arguing against joining websites, I'm arguing against joining websites whose very nature would be corrosive to your career/personal life if it came to light you were a member. Use your brain.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Don't think you understand what an emotional outburst is. With your tiny brain, I assume anytime caps are used.

"Due to your tiny brain, I assume you think it's any time caps are used."

I fixed your sentence for you.

Don't insult someone's intelligence if you can't construct a competent sentence while doing so, little guy.



No, it was an emotional outburst because you went on a sissy "you're all libtards who hate rich people and worship the gays" rant. Don't be so sensitive, lol.



That said, yes, I feel exactly no pity for adulterers having their dirty laundry aired. Nor will I feel any pity if the hacker is arrested, sent to prison, raped, and murdered.

Neither I nor OV were insinuating that the illegality of the hackers' actions should be ignored because the people affected "deserved it".

The sentence was quite competent the way it was. The fact that you think it needed changing proves my point


I didn't mention liberals, and I also mentioned murderers. Nice to see you're still as adept as ever at following conversations


So you're dumb, I think we get it.


And I in no way said OV did. I don't know why you're lumping yourself with his conclusion because yours is much different. Keep trying though

We should do away with our stupid and socially constructed ideas about romantic exclusivity, then cheating will end.