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So..

If people want to waste money on electives, they should have the right to do so

They can take whatever classes they want, spend their money on dumb stuff. It tells us who the idiots are doesn't it?

They can try to paint terrorists in sympathetic ways, but it doesn't change the reality that those terrorists are cowardly pieces of shit.

While this course likely has too much of an agenda, attempting to understand extremism isn't the same as agreeing with it. Conflating the two is potentially as dangerous as the idiots who made it necessary about a decade ago to explicitly state you were "for the troops" even if you were against the war. Even with this post, there's a chance I'll be labeled a sympathizer or something equally ridiculous, when of course that isn't the case.

Perhaps even if this course is ill advised, and if the OP isn't reporting anything false, it certainly IS ill advised and could be balanced much better, the takeaway could be that applying broad villainous labels is self serving. Even with unequivocally evil acts, there exist cultural forces behind them that can help us to better understand the nature of the conflict. Because approaching a topic from the opposing perspective can be a valuable exercise, but only if it's kept in the proper perspective.

I would wonder though about the opposite type of class, one geared towards just bashing terrorism etc. would go over? Or maybe they already exist.

I'm sure they do.

It might not be explicitly stated on the course catalog, but the practice of professors pushing their agendas through their courses is very much alive and well. So yeah, I'm sure something like that exists. To a certain extent, I don't mind it, because it creates a marketplace of ideas even if the courses themselves aren't unbiased. But I think critical thinking courses should be mandatory before being exposed to such an environment. Many aren't prepared intellectually even if they're intelligent. An insulated community during childhood can easily eliminate the need to develop such skills.

Know your enemy - Sun Tzu.

Originally posted by Surtur
I would wonder though about the opposite type of class, one geared towards just bashing terrorism etc. would go over? Or maybe they already exist.
To be fair, that is already embedded in our culture. It's not really an unrepresented viewpoint. I also doubt we'd learn much, since terrorism is obviously a shitty thing. There's not much else to say other than "well, that sucked."

This course appears to search for a solution, and understanding the motivation of the "bad guys" helps.

Originally posted by Surtur
I would wonder though about the opposite type of class, one geared towards just bashing terrorism etc. would go over? Or maybe they already exist.
It's called life.

Okay, so what about a nazi sympathizer class? Or the KKK? Though I'm sure these exist as well.

Originally posted by StyleTime
This course appears to search for a solution, and understanding the motivation of the "bad guys" helps.

Why does understanding the motivation help? There is no magical revelation they can drop to change much of anything. I'm sure they could rattle off a cornucopia of excuses: religion, shitty conditions in their shithole countries, etc. Would this stuff make you go "oh I get it now" next time one of these pieces of shit flies a plane into a building or walks into a crowded area and blows themselves up?

Originally posted by Surtur
Okay, so what about a nazi sympathizer class? Or the KKK? Though I'm sure these exist as well.



Why does understanding the motivation help? There is no magical revelation they can drop to change much of anything. I'm sure they could rattle off a cornucopia of excuses: religion, shitty conditions in their shithole countries, etc. Would this stuff make you go "oh I get it now" next time one of these pieces of shit flies a plane into a building or walks into a crowded area and blows themselves up?
I think the point would be to understand that these people are human, not cartoon villains, and also perhaps to put into relief one's own strange or poorly-formed beliefs. To wit, if you can understand why a 9/11 hijacker might have come to believe in a heavenly reward for killing thousands of people, you might better understand how you could also come to believe something similarly ridiculous if circumstances are right.

I think a class about how the Nazi party gained traction in Germany would be incredibly useful. Too many people believe that Nazisim was something inherent to Germany, rather than a kind of virulent belief system that could arise in just about any nation under the right circumstances.

"To understand is to forgive" is a ridiculous statement. It's like saying "To own a car is to own a boat."

Of course I can understand the motives behind 9/11 without forgiving them...I'm capable of reason.

Psmith, have you ever heard of the Third Wave experiment?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Wave

Originally posted by Omega Vision
"To understand is to forgive" is a ridiculous statement. It's like saying "To own a car is to own a boat."

Of course I can understand the motives behind 9/11 without forgiving them...I'm capable of reason.

Psmith, have you ever heard of the Third Wave experiment?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Wave

Yes, I've heard of it. Incredibly interesting. And I disagree with your notion that the statement is ridiculous, because I would argue that if people were to understand reasons for actions, they are more likely to forgive that action or at the very least, feel sympathetic.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Yes, I've heard of it. Incredibly interesting. And I disagree with your notion that the statement is ridiculous, because I would argue that if people were to understand reasons for actions, they are more likely to forgive that action or at the very least, feel sympathetic.
Understanding why millions of Germans felt the need to support a program like National Socialism and turn a blind eye to the sufferings of minorities in the name of prosperity and national pride is important because people have to understand that these aren't impulses specific to one time or place. It could happen in America--not today, not tomorrow, probably not in 10 years, but it could happen if the country becomes desperate. I'd never accuse Donald Trump or his supporters of being fascist in any way, but a slogan like "Make America Great Again" taps into the same kind of visceral populism that propelled Nazism to power in Germany. Someone similar to Trump but with more radical social beliefs could use his same strategy to possibly turn America into a fascist state at some point in the future.

A class about Nazism wouldn't be an examination of why Nazis were so evil because that wouldn't teach anyone anything. It would more likely be about how tapping into "good" things like patriotism, a sense of community, desire for more organization, a stronger economy, and an assertive foreign policy can allow the wrong people to get to power and can spiral out of control.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Understanding why millions of Germans felt the need to support a program like National Socialism and turn a blind eye to the sufferings of minorities in the name of prosperity and national pride is important because people have to understand that these aren't impulses specific to one time or place. It could happen in America--not today, not tomorrow, probably not in 10 years, but it could happen if the country becomes desperate. I'd never accuse Donald Trump or his supporters of being fascist in any way, but a slogan like "Make America Great Again" taps into the same kind of visceral populism that propelled Nazism to power in Germany.

A class about Nazism wouldn't be an examination of why Nazis were so evil because that wouldn't teach anyone anything. It would more likely be about how tapping into "good" things like patriotism, a sense of community, desire for more organization, a stronger economy, and an assertive foreign policy can allow the wrong people to get to power and can spiral out of control.

But that would be missing the point of the Nazis' true intentions. Why the millions of Germans (non nazis) felt the need to support such a program and why the Nazis did present two very different ideological reasons.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I think the point would be to understand that these people are human, not cartoon villains, and also perhaps to put into relief one's own strange or poorly-formed beliefs. To wit, if you can understand why a 9/11 hijacker might have come to believe in a heavenly reward for killing thousands of people, you might better understand how you could also come to believe something similarly ridiculous if circumstances are right.

I think a class about how the Nazi party gained traction in Germany would be incredibly useful. Too many people believe that Nazisim was something inherent to Germany, rather than a kind of virulent belief system that could arise in just about any nation under the right circumstances.

But shit like "they did it for their God" is known by people, this isn't something you need to take a class for.

I don't think anyone thinks they are cartoon villains, cartoon villains tend to not overwhelmingly be pieces of shit most of the time.

What reasons do you think people in this country assume these terrorists are doing this for? Most people I know..know they aren't doing it just for the hell of it. They always have some kind of cause their sick little minds latch onto.

You say they are human, but I disagree. For me, being human is more then just a physical thing, more then just DNA. On the outside they appear human, on the inside though they are far from it.

As for the nazi thing, ah but that isn't what I said: I wasn't talking about how the Nazi's came to power or why they gained traction, but specifically a class sympathizing with them. In other words, a class going into detail on why they had such a hate hard on for the jews..with examples with stuff jews have done in the past that made Nazi's hate them so much.

I am curious about one thing, out of the total population of Germany at the time..do you know what percentage were Nazi's?

Nazism wasn't religious in any way. They made a few mention of God being Aryan but that wasn't even perverting Christianity, it was completely making up something new.

I was talking about these terrorists. I'd be surprised at anyone in this country who didn't know how huge a factor religion plays.

Originally posted by Surtur
You say they are human, but I disagree. For me, being human is more then just a physical thing, more then just DNA. On the outside they appear human, on the inside though they are far from it.

That's kind of the point of contention, if they became inhuman, you can figure out that they were human, because nazis weren't born like handicapped or alien children. Hence, it makes sense for humans to resist and to model the inhuman, just like we make model for atomic explosions without becoming a frigging bomb.

There is no doubt they were born human, but some kind of metamorphosis took place during their lifetime that turned them into fanatics.

Anyways my point in asking what percentage of the German population were nazi's was to point out..how much utter destruction and mayhem even a small portion of people can cause. Since you know you always hear that religious extremists only make up a small percentage of people who follow that religion.

Germany had..what, 70 million people at the time? The number of nazi's was under 10 million IIRC.

I really want to check out Art Spiegelman's "In the Shadow of No Towers" sounds really interesting.

Originally posted by Surtur
There is no doubt they were born human, but some kind of metamorphosis took place during their lifetime that turned them into fanatics.

Anyways my point in asking what percentage of the German population were nazi's was to point out..how much utter destruction and mayhem even a small portion of people can cause. Since you know you always hear that religious extremists only make up a small percentage of people who follow that religion.

Disastrous economy, hyperinflation, hitler youth program? Any of that ring a bell? Wasn't hard really.

I never said it was hard to figure out...just that I'm aware they weren't born Chaotic Evil or anything.

Originally posted by Surtur
Anyways my point in asking what percentage of the German population were nazi's was to point out..how much utter destruction and mayhem even a small portion of people can cause. Since you know you always hear that religious extremists only make up a small percentage of people who follow that religion.

Technically a religion doesn't work exactly like a country. Germany used taxes that came from all kinds of business to fuel an army that went to attack the whole continent. Religions are just traditions and they aren't centralized by definition.

If we take the example of Islam, they aren't centralized at all.

However, I agree that nefarious beliefs are like an infection and once they are sizeable enough, they can damage an otherwise healthy population.

Originally posted by Surtur
Why does understanding the motivation help? There is no magical revelation they can drop to change much of anything. I'm sure they could rattle off a cornucopia of excuses: religion, shitty conditions in their shithole countries, etc. Would this stuff make you go "oh I get it now" next time one of these pieces of shit flies a plane into a building or walks into a crowded area and blows themselves up?
It's not about introducing a magic antidote to terrorism. It's about raising a generation of critical thinkers who are equipped to avoid problems like this. As much as we'd like to believe otherwise, terroristic groups don't form in a vacuum. They often spring up, at least partially, in response to the conflicts started by western involvement there. Osama/Al-Qaeda's whole story spiraled out of what was basically a Cold War era fight(we were actually on Osama's side back then), granted that was instigated by Soviet aggression. A good deal of ISIL/ISIS's bullshit came out of the Iraq invasion.

The students in college now will run things some day, it's best they understand the full story. Might avoid some future tragedies.