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doe!Bane vs rots!Kenobi.

1.) Lightsabers
2.) The Force
3.) All Out!

Bane wins via force.


Not even going to touch Sabers

Obi-wan
Bane
Bane.

Obi wan in all three, force is either way. Other than lightning Bane's TK feats are inferior to Kenobi's, and he gets stomped in any duel every time

Bane wins Force and all-out.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
doe!Bane vs rots!Kenobi.

1.) Lightsabers
2.) The Force
3.) All Out!

1) Kenobi, everytime
2) Not sure. Kenobi's underrated, though.
3) Kenobi, solidly.

1. Kenobi, comfortable
2. Bane
3. Kenobi

Bane wins all, easily.

How is Bane beating Kenobi in lightsaber combat easily?

Kenobi's nearly just as skilled and fast as Dooku as of ROTS.

Implying Bane wouldn't crush Dooku in a duel as well.

Dooku's tooled him in every encounter.

Bane's simply faster, stronger, more powerful and he has the skills to beat Obi-Wan down. He's also a smart fighter who uses his surroundings and doesn't let his emotions rule him.

Durron?

And that novel fight is completely incongruous with the movie, where Dooku beats him in literally 10 seconds. Dooku's humiliated Obi-Wan in every duel they've had.

Dooku bested Kenobi through the Force in the movie - not sabers.

And the novel was co-written and supervised by George Lucas himself.

Your point? He's never pressed in the manner the book suggests.

From a previous draft of the script. And if Lucas had intended for the novel to represent canon, maybe he wouldn't have rampantly contradicted it all the time.

And that means we should ignore the book? Both should be available for us to draw from for a debate.

Source? And I bet the changes were mostly due to time constraints and budget cuts.

Regardless, for the sake of this matchup, Kenobi has his feats as shown in the ROTS novel.

umad Kenobi rapes Bane in sabers, bro?

Except where the book contradicts the movie. Not only is the movie the higher source, it also came out after the book, so it retcons it neatly.

Mr Stover stated that he was working from a version of the script that wasn't the final one.

Don't care.

No, because Bane > Dooku too. Good luck convincing anyone that Obi-Wan's on par with Dooku though. He isn't.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Good luck convincing anyone that Obi-Wan's on par with Dooku though. He isn't.

I think literally everyone here puts Dooku and Kenobi as near equals in terms of pure swordsmanship.

Kenobi shitstomps sabers, Bane takes Force but loses All Out.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Good luck convincing anyone that Obi-Wan's on par with Dooku though. He isn't.
Already have. Not that difficult. Just read the novel and it's obvious they are close.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, because Bane > Dooku too.
Next thing you know you will be saying Bane > Anakin as a duelist.

Originally posted by Selenial
I think literally everyone here puts Dooku and Kenobi as near equals in terms of pure swordsmanship..
Lol yep.

See, Neph?

I don't think Kenobi could beat luminaries such as Sirak and Kas'im in sabers. Bane is just too good

--Nephthys, 2015

Originally posted by Selenial
I think literally everyone here puts Dooku and Kenobi as near equals in terms of pure swordsmanship.

Kenobi shitstomps sabers, Bane takes Force but loses All Out.

I'd be surprised, considering how he literally manhandled him on bug world, as well as how easily he fights him in the movie. Obi-Wan looks like he's shitting himself in that saberlock. You notice how Dooku drags his blade up to block Anakin like it's not even there? Classic.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Already have. Not that difficult. Just read the novel and it's obvious they are close.


Next thing you know you will be saying Bane > Anakin as a duelist.

The novel makes many things obvious that are equally obvious to actually be the opposite in the movie.

Seems unnecessary.

Obi-Wan, all 3.

Kenobi rapes easily.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Obi-Wan, all 3.


Originally posted by DarthAnt66
--Nephthys, 2015
Neph is wrong, as usual. How embarassing.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Dooku bested Kenobi through the Force in the movie - not sabers.




Yes but why didn't Kenobi even attempt to block the first Force Push Dooku gave him? When Anakin/Kenobi did intercept each other Force pushes, as did Ventress and Luminara.

My point being you could equalize Kenobi and Dooku's TK Ability, and Dooku would still be landing Force attacks on Kenobi. So Dooku was simply outfighting Kenobi (while simultaneously fighting off Skywalker mind you) regardless of who has greater TK.


Originally posted by Selenial
I think literally everyone here puts Dooku and Kenobi as near equals in terms of pure swordsmanship.




Nah there's a lot who don't.

Most see Kenobi and Maul as near equals in swordmanship though.

As I've noted above, I just think Dooku is a superior combatant to Kenobi as of TCW and ROTS (Will wait and see what the new canon says about ANH Kenobi).

Kenobi has the dueling edge, Bane has the Force edge.

Their edges on both ends of the spectrum is overrated. It's probably a near-even fight, if anything I'd give Bane the 6-7/10.

@ NewGuy

Out of curiosity, why, in your opinion, Bane has the Force edge?

So. I was thinking about this. I'd say Kenobi wins all-out 8/10.

Originally posted by Stigma
@ NewGuy

Out of curiosity, why, in your opinion, Bane has the Force edge?

Largely because he's willing to abuse it, and has knowledge of more destructive powers that have more various combat uses. Kenobi's a much more passive force user, though he too is really powerful in his own way; Luke compares his force strength to Durron and Yoda more than once. Then again, that's OT Ben.

Bane wins thanks to his power edge. The skill edge is pretty minimal and not going to be all the important considering Kenobi's naturally defensive stance and Bane's own prowess in defensive combat. Physicals has no gaping disparity either.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Largely because he's willing to abuse it, and has knowledge of more destructive powers that have more various combat uses. Kenobi's a much more passive force user, though he too is really powerful in his own way; Luke compares his force strength to Durron and Yoda more than once. Then again, that's OT Ben.

Like lightning that Kenobi can dodge

Bane doesn't have a telekinetic edge, and Bane's offensive force powers like drain aren't usable without a nexus. Kenobi can dodge Bane's lightning or catch it on his saber.


Originally posted by SunRazer
Bane wins thanks to his power edge. The skill edge is pretty minimal and not going to be all the important considering Kenobi's naturally defensive stance and Bane's own prowess in defensive combat. Physicals has no gaping disparity either.

Da fuq? Kenobi has beaten Grievous, fought evenly with Ventress, held his own against Anakin, and Savage/Maul, and beaten more skilled duelists. He's the peer of duelists that would kill Bane on their own. Bane isn't even more skilled than Kas'im, and considering Kenobi's durability, speed advantage, and superior skill he could shrug off any of Bane's offense easier than Zannah. I'd also love to know what power edge he has, because Kenobi has greater telekinetic showings than Bane as well

Originally posted by carthage
Bane doesn't have a telekinetic edge,

He probably does, though that's not what I'm talking about; the point is that he'll abuse his powers and Kenobi won't, and that's frankly an advantage.



He needed a nexus to sustain a spherical death field. Drain Life is a much more conservative spell; not that it's likely to make an appearance.



Bane can dodge Kenobi's saber or block it with his own, so what? It can still hit him and it can still kill him.



I thought Kas'im could only handle trainee Bane? Stay consistent pls.

Which he didn't do against Zannah, as his MO at least of Dynasty of evil was to opt for a lightsaber duel.




Which he has to pause and use, and unlikely as **** given Kenobi will be pounding him in sabers




And then Kenobi can blast him back, or outmaneuver him and counterattack, and no Bane isn't breaking Kenobi's defense. Again what are you talking about, he's never overly abused his powers in a lightsaber duel without orbalisks.



????

I agree with cart that Kenobi has been underrated pretty badly when it comes to Force power. He is a very capable force user.

If anything, the skill/dueling edge Kenobi has over this incarnation of Bane is much greater than any difference between the two in the Force department.

Originally posted by carthage



Da fuq? Kenobi has beaten Grievous, fought evenly with Ventress,


He's beaten Ventress as well in TCW Movie.

Sabers to Kenobi, force is a toss up

Probably Bane, in a good one

Supposedly Bane in POD is superior to Thon, Bane Annihilates.

No, kek.

Bane wins 10/10 though.

haven't come to a conclusion about who has the power edge which could end up being decisive given Kenobi's defensive style could give Bane the opportunity to turn this into a force battle rather than a saber duel which he has no chance of prevailing in.

Then again, you could argue that the rots senior novelization sets precedent for Kenobi being able to press someone with his soesu. While Dooku is good enough to get around this, Bane, is not.

If Kenobi does fight offensively here, as he did against Maul and Oppress, he should take this regardless of whatever force gap may be present here.

As it still seems plausible to me that Kenobi wields more power, and Bane possessing a power edge isn't necessarily sufficient to give him a win here, I'll side with Kenobi to take this more often than not.

Bane ragdolls.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Bane ragdolls.
Even assuming Bane actually holds such a significant edge in power, it's questionable if Bane even gets the opportunity to use the power.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
No, kek.

Bane wins 10/10 though.
Well Well

http://imgur.com/llZurzO
http://imgur.com/V7bzbdf

Darth cognus states, Banes Raw power is the greatest she has seen, just after witnessing events of Ambria.

Time to update those lists.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Even assuming Bane actually holds such a significant edge in power, it's questionable if Bane even gets the opportunity to use the power.

The notion that Kenobi will press Bane indefinitely giving him no ground even for a step back is absurd. It's both out of character from Kenobi and also out of his skill level.

Bane>Thon>Naga sadow with guantlets

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
The notion that Kenobi will press Bane indefinitely giving him no ground even for a step back is absurd. It's both out of character from Originally posted by TenebrousWay Kenobi and also out of his skill level.
rereading the passage from ROTS, Kenobi never actually presses Dooku with his soresu as I thought he did, never mind then. Kenobi's going to be inclined tofight defensively.
Originally posted by TenebrousWay Kenobi and also out of his skill level.
You act as if Kenobi couldn't close the space if Bane tries to get space. It's not exactly easy to gain ground against a more skilled opponent. And given his performances against Maul offensively, he's certainly sufficiently skilled to press Bane if he fights offensively, though that's out of character.

The question isn't if Kenobi "can press". Kenobi certainly will press Bane in sabers fight. The question is: Can Kenobi press Bane totally and utterly so he can't even take two steps back?" The answer to that is obviously no.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
Well Well

http://imgur.com/llZurzO
http://imgur.com/V7bzbdf

Darth cognus states, Banes Raw power is the greatest she has seen, just after witnessing events of Ambria.

Time to update those lists.



Never once is it stated or implied in there that Bane has more raw power than Thon. All it says is that the "raw power of the dark side emanating from him" was like "nothing she had ever felt." The latter part hardly being a comparison between Bane and Thon.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ


Never once is it stated or implied in there that Bane has more raw power than Thon. All it says is that the "raw power of the dark side emanating from him" was like "nothing she had ever felt." The latter part hardly being a comparison between Bane and Thon.

She witnessed the devastation of Ambria, something Thon could only seal, and regarded Banes power to be above that, and this was a weakened POD Bane.
You can't scale thons power above marginally above the ambria feat, Bane grows a metric ton afterwards.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
You act as if Kenobi couldn't close the space if Bane tries to get space. It's not exactly easy to gain ground against a more skilled opponent. And given his performances against Maul offensively, he's certainly sufficiently skilled to press Bane if he fights offensively, though that's out of character.
Just curious... in what fight in Star Wars have you ever seen where there hasn't been a single pause, or space gained between combatants? That happens so often in lightsaber duels (even between duelists with a very notable gap in skill, such as Anakin and Barriss, Anakin and unarmed Ventress, TCW movie Obi-Wan and Ventress, AOTC Dooku and Obi-wan, Seventh Sister and Ahsoka, Season 2 Vizlsa and Obi-Wan) that the notion that Obi-Wan, the traditionally defensive fighter, is going to completely change up the way he usually fights to keep Bane from getting any interval is absurd. Could you even name a single instance where Obi-Wan fights in a way where his opponents are unable to get a single pause or length of distance? And this is beside the fact that Bane has used his force powers while under offensive assault before.

This entire line of thinking simply doesn't exist on solid ground.

Kenobi without much difficulty

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Just curious... in what fight in Star Wars have you ever seen where there hasn't been a single pause, or space gained between combatants? That happens so often in lightsaber duels (even between duelists with a very notable gap in skill, such as Anakin and Barriss, Anakin and unarmed Ventress, TCW movie Obi-Wan and Ventress, AOTC Dooku and Obi-wan, Seventh Sister and Ahsoka, Season 2 Vizlsa and Obi-Wan) that the notion that Obi-Wan, the traditionally defensive fighter, is going to completely change up the way he usually fights to keep Bane from getting any interval is absurd. Could you even name a single instance where Obi-Wan fights in a way where his opponents are unable to get a single pause or length of distance? And this is beside the fact that Bane has used his force powers while under offensive assault before.

This entire line of thinking simply doesn't exist on solid ground.

kbro, no offense, but trash argument tbh.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
She witnessed the devastation of Ambria, something Thon could only seal, and regarded Banes power to be above that, and this was a weakened POD Bane.
You can't scale thons power above marginally above the ambria feat, Bane grows a metric ton afterwards.

The strength in the force emanating from a single individual is different than the energies of a nexus, tbh. It doesn't make sense that Zannah would have to draw on the energies of Ambria (and she obviously wasn't wielding the full power of the Lake in that instant) to summon her tendrils (the most devastating technique we've ever seen her use) if the collective power of the entire nexus is less potent than PoD Bane, kek.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Just curious... in what fight in Star Wars have you ever seen where there hasn't been a single pause, or space gained between combatants?

The question here would be where there hasn't been a pause significant enough for them to get a chance to abuse the force, which there certainly have been:

-> Season 2 Anakin vs Ventress (I'm not counting when Ventress is running away as part of the duel)

-> Season 5 1 v 1 between Kenobi and Maul

-> Season 6 Anakin and Kenobi vs Dooku

-> Grievous vs Jedi on Hypori

-> TPM Maul vs Qui-Gon

-> Ventress vs Fisto

-> Multiple engagements between Grievous and TCW Kenobi

Originally posted by Emperordmb
That happens so often in lightsaber duels (even between duelists with a very notable gap in skill, such as Anakin and Barriss

Because Barriss was actively trying to flee, which I imagine Bane isn't going to be doing.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
, Anakin and unarmed Ventress,

Right, because Ventress was running away.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
TCW movie Obi-Wan and Ventress

Only one I recall using tk was Kenobi who at this point was significantly better than Ventress as a duelist.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
, AOTC Dooku and Obi-wan
__
I don't recall either force user using tk on the other.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
, Seventh Sister and Ahsoka, Season 2 Vizlsa and Obi-Wan) that the notion that Obi-Wan, the traditionally defensive fighter, is going to completely change up the way he usually fights to keep Bane from getting any interval is absurd.
__
Right, I already admitted this would be out of character. As noted, I was basing my earlier assumption off a misremembering of the fight between Anakin, Kenobi and dooku where I thought Kenobi pressed Dooku with his Soresu.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Could you even name a single instance where Obi-Wan fights in a way where his opponents are unable to get a single pause or length of distance? And this is beside the fact that Bane has used his force powers while under offensive assault before.
__
There's Kenobi's 1 v 1's vs Maul, his engagements with Ventress ect.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
This entire line of thinking simply doesn't exist on solid ground.
Except that we have multiple fights in the mythos where neither opponent got an opportunity to use the force. Not to mention we have situations like Vos vs Dooku where even though a opponent is able to use the force, it's not sufficient to end the duel.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
The question here would be where there hasn't been a pause significant enough for them to get a chance to abuse the force, which there certainly have been:

-> Season 2 Anakin vs Ventress (I'm not counting when Ventress is running away as part of the duel)

-> Season 5 1 v 1 between Kenobi and Maul

-> Season 6 Anakin and Kenobi vs Dooku

-> Grievous vs Jedi on Hypori

-> TPM Maul vs Qui-Gon

-> Ventress vs Fisto

-> Multiple engagements between Grievous and TCW Kenobi
Yeah... except there's a difference between fights where nobody used TK, and fights where there wasn't an opening to use TK if the person was so inclined.

but yeah, the Kamino duel with Ventress and Anakin involved Ventress actually TKing him at the start, then a two second pause where they were standing poised and sizing each other up where either of them could've made use of TK if they were so inclined.

As for the 1v1 with Maul when they briefly disengaged with Obi-Wan jumping off of the cliff before Maul reengaged him in lightsaber combat, either of them could've used TK if they were so inclined. Then another couple of pauses that lasted a few seconds where... again, either of them could've used TK if they were so inclined, then when Obi-Wan ran over to check on Gallia, another opening where either could've used TK.

As for the Oba Diah duel in season 6, there was a pause where they were squaring off for a second after stepping outside that could've been used for TK, a moment where despite Dooku being there Anakin was able to utilize TK to try and save Obi-Wan, another pause between Anakin and Dooku where either could've attempted TK, then another pause after Obi-Wan rejoined the fight just before the Pykes showed up, and then Dooku actually using TK against Anakin, Obi-Wan, and a group of Pykes.

As per Grievous vs the Jedi, there were absolutely instances in that fight where Jedi utilized TK, such as Shaak and Mundi.

As per Maul vs Qui-Gon in TPM, fair enough but that is more the exception than the rule, and was a fight between two primarily offensive duelists, which is not only not the case here, but Bane's opponent is the defensive duelist.

As per the Fisto vs Ventress fight, I'll take your word for it cause I don't feel like looking through it, but its the same as the above, more an exception than the rule, with two primarily offensive duelists going at it.

As per the multiple examples of Grievous vs Kenobi, the Utupau fight in the unfinished TCW episodes is the only one that comes to mind that matches your description, and that's because the fight ended extremely quickly. In every other fight he either uses TK, or has the opportunity to at some point but doesn't.

So no, only like two of your counterpoints hold which are the exceptions rather than the rules, and both had primarily offensive duelists which isn't the case here. Not to mention, even then your two examples only hold if we absolutely assume that characters need a pause or physical space in order to utilize their Force powers. We actually have examples contradicting this notion such as Koth force pushing Grievous while under Grievous's assault with a broken arm, Maul pushing Obi-Wan while the two were bladelocked, Dooku using the Force against Anakin on Naboo while Anakin had him bladelocked on his back with one hand wrapped around his throat, Dooku shoving Anakin onto the ground in the TCW movie while they were clashing blades, and ironically enough examples from Bane in all three books of the trilogy, and also ironically enough twice in the Ahsoka vs Vader duel where they TKed each other despite being engaged in a clash of blades.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Because Barriss was actively trying to flee, which I imagine Bane isn't going to be doing.

Right, because Ventress was running away.
I don't think Bane would do this either because I think he has nothing to fear from Kenobi and that Kenobi is completely outmatched, but assuming you are correct, and that Obi-Wan outmatches Bane in a duel to such a ridiculous degree that Bane wouldn't be able to use TK, I feel to see why Bane wouldn't simply leap, run, or engage in some form of retreat for a few seconds to get an opening to unleash his force powers through.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Only one I recall using tk was Kenobi who at this point was significantly better than Ventress as a duelist.
Yes but you're missing the point. There were several pauses in that fight or moments where there was enough distance between them that if Ventress was inclined to use TK in those moments she absolutely could have.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
I don't recall either force user using tk on the other.
Again though, there were moments where there was enough of a pause or space for Obi-Wan to have been able to utilize TK if he chose to. Not successfully given Dooku's significantly greater power, but the opening was still there.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Right, I already admitted this would be out of character. As noted, I was basing my earlier assumption off a misremembering of the fight between Anakin, Kenobi and dooku where I thought Kenobi pressed Dooku with his Soresu.
So then the notion of Obi-Wan aggressing Bane so much he couldn't use his TK is a moot point to argue.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Except that we have multiple fights in the mythos where neither opponent got an opportunity to use the force. Not to mention we have situations like Vos vs Dooku where even though a opponent is able to use the force, it's not sufficient to end the duel.
There's absolutely a major difference between neither character using TK, and neither character having an opportunity to use TK, and that's something you're failing to grasp, and such opportunities and moments are observable in nearly every duel in Star Wars, as well as the numerous examples from characters using TK while engaged in lightsaber combat.

Again notion that Bane won't be able to use the force here because he'd be too pressed in a duel is both patently absurd and absolute nonsense. I fundamentally disagree with where you have Bane as a duelist and force wielder, but even if you're right about the extent of the gap between Bane and Obi-Wan as duelists this point still doesn't stand.

I find it funny how, at least mathematically, Bane was surviving an onslaught of attacks from Raskta Lsu greater than the number it supposedly took for Grievous to overwhelm Kenobi's Soresu in ROTS.

Just a thought.

He survived while protected head to toe in lightsaber proof orbalisks and amped by multiple focal points of darkside energy, lmao

Bane doesn't even have saber feats that place him above Qui gon