Vegeta with rage boost vs Buutenks

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eaebiakuya
Vegeta from DBZ SUPER.

Who wins ?

bbrem123
Vegeta stomps him into paste and then vaporizes said paste.

bbrem123
But in all seriousness. Nearly everything happening in DBS is beyond anything every shown in DBZ

eaebiakuya
Do you think Vegeta > Buuhan and Vegetto ?

carver9
Originally posted by bbrem123
Vegeta stomps him into paste and then vaporizes said paste.

This. And yes, Vegeta is beyond both.

NewGuy01
Vegeta beats him to death, but it's not like he can't put up a fight.

StiltmanFTW
Could anyone tell me how DBS Berserker Vegeta compares to BOG Berserker Vegeta?

Pretty much the same or was there any difference?

carver9
BOG Vegeta drew blood...DBS Vegeta didn't do much if anything to Beerus.

StiltmanFTW
But other than drawing blood, was the scene similar? Vegeta landing several good hits?

carver9
The entire fight scene was different. What did you all think of the purple scene with Vegeta. Him turning purple and all.

StiltmanFTW
Purple? Maybe it had something to do with him charging Galick Gun?

Just guessing, haven't seen the episode stick out tongue

eaebiakuya
In Super Beerus says he is using 10% against Vegeta.

But why he beat Vegetto carver ?

carver9
Originally posted by eaebiakuya
In Super Beerus says he is using 10% against Vegeta.

But why he beat Vegetto carver ?

Goku thought of Beerus as the strongest force he ever witnessed. I'm pretty sure Goku is well aware of his power level when merged with Vegeta. Goku fought a Beerus that didn't use a percentage of his power and he still thought of Beerus as an unstoppable force. He even said that he doesn't think there is a way of beating Beerus (and remember, he only felt a small piece of Beerus power). So this includes his fusion as well. Vegeta was able to make Beerus up his game to 10 percent of his power. Yes, Vegeta would stomp his merged self if the situation was the same (Vegeta going berserk).

juggerman
Buutenks.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by carver9
Yes, Vegeta would stomp his merged self if the situation was the same (Vegeta going berserk).

We don't know that.

And Vegito still was holding back a lot of his power, like not going SSJ3 or at least SSJ2.

carver9
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
We don't know that.

And Vegito still was holding back a lot of his power, like not going SSJ3 or at least SSJ2.

Could he even go Super Saiyan 3? Or 2 for that matter. If anything, I'm sure Goku knew of Vegito power level, even if he didn't display it during his fight against Buu and he still knew for a fact he couldn't do anything to Beerus. Remember, he told us that merging with Vegeta wouldn't stop Beerus (and again, Goku didn't get the same treatment Vegeta got, the 10% added power).

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by carver9
Could he even go Super Saiyan 3? Or 2 for that matter. If anything, I'm sure Goku knew of Vegito power level, even if he didn't display it during his fight against Buu and he still knew for a fact he couldn't do anything to Beerus. Remember, he told us that merging with Vegeta wouldn't stop Beerus (and again, Goku didn't get the same treatment Vegeta got, the 10% added power).

Gotenks could. There's no reason at all to think that Vegito (or Gogeta) wouldn't be able to. He just didn't need to.

Afaik, he stated that only in the extended version of BoG. Didn't sound 100% confident when saying that, either.

carver9
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Gotenks could. There's no reason at all to think that Vegito (or Gogeta) wouldn't be able to. He just didn't need to.

Afaik, he stated that only in the extended version of BoG. Didn't sound 100% confident when saying that, either.

The boys trained which is the reason they were able to access those transformations. That body for Vegeta and Goku was new to them. We have no evidence they can go 2 or 3.

I think they worded DBS differently with Vegito vs Beerus. Will relook at the episode.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by carver9
The boys trained which is the reason they were able to access those trancormations. That body for Vegeta and Goku was new to them. We have no evidence that they can to 2 or 3.

And I think they just didn't have enough raw power pre-RoSaT. Vegeta and Goku do.

We have no evidence, but it's only common sense. In GT, Gogeta had no trouble accessing SSJ4.

Originally posted by carver9
I think they worded DBS differently with Vegito vs Beerus. Will relook at the episode.

Thanks, definitely interested in this one.

carver9
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
And I think they just didn't have enough raw power pre-RoSaT. Vegeta and Goku do.

We have no evidence, but it's only common sense. In GT, Gogeta had no trouble accessing SSJ4.



Thanks, definitely interested in this one.

They didn't have enough raw power and Vegeta and Goku doesn't either. I just looked at episode 5 again and here is Goku exact words.

"Damn, to become stronger you have no choice but to do a fusion with Vegeta. Still, my chances for winning would be very less".

Let me know if you want me to post screen shots. Anyways, Goku basically admitted a fusion would be nothing to Beerus and he's basing this off of the percentage Beerus displayed during his fight against Goku (remember, Z fighters can no sense God's power level). With that said, Vegito would probably get the same treatment the other Z fighters got (minus Vegeta rage boost of course).

You used the boys merge as confirmation for Vegeta and Goku merge not realizing that the boys had to train to become Super Saiyan 3.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by carver9
They didn't have enough raw power and Vegeta and Goku doesn't either. I just looked at episode 5 again and here is Goku exact words.

"Damn, to become stronger you have no choice but to do a fusion with Vegeta. Still, my chances for winning would be very less".

Let me know if you want me to post screen shots. Anyways, Goku basically admitted a fusion would be nothing to Beerus and he's basing this off of the percentage Beerus displayed during his fight against Goku (remember, Z fighters can no sense God's power level). With that said, Vegito would probably get the same treatment the other Z fighters got (minus Vegeta rage boost of course).

You used the boys merge as confirmation for Vegeta and Goku merge not realizing that the boys had to train to become Super Saiyan 3.

They didn't have enough power to make the fusion powerful enough to allow the SSJ3 transformation, is what I meant. After all, it's a fusion between "only" FPSSJ1 and FPSSJ1 (at best - some would disagree they were FPSSJ1).

Goku and Vegeta bring much more to the table, seeing as it's a fusion between SSJ3 and SSJ2.

I do get what you're saying, though. And yes, Beerus seems to be in a league of his own compared to the Z series. One important thing to note is that the potara fusion is superior to the dance... and they had no earrings in BoG. So Goku must've meant Gogeta (not Vegito) not being enough to handle Beerus.

Yes, I'd love to see some screens smile Please stick out tongue

Again, the boys weren't as strong as their fathers, so going SSJ3 - even with the multiplier coming from their fusion factored in - would be freakin' hard or outright impossible. Always believed that they needed more power. And RoSat training gave them that power.

Galan007
Bootenks wins.

Going by the manga, rage-boosted Vegeta could have been 10x> SSJ3 Goku, and never even approached the level of Bootenks(who was 2x> Mystic Gohan.)

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Purple? Maybe it had something to do with him charging Galick Gun?

Just guessing, haven't seen the episode stick out tongue thumb up

He was clearly charging the Galick Gun:
http://i.imgur.com/t72aZU3l.jpg

StiltmanFTW
That's what I thought. Thanks.

Smh at carver.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by Galan007
Bootenks wins.

Even though Goku tells us that even if he fused with Vegeta, he'd still never be able to beat 3-5% Beerus?

Because their fused state was a lot stronger than Buuhan, let alone Buutenks.



Mystic Gohan also got completely outshowed by this Vegeta.

Also, why would you consider Kid Buu/SSJ3 Goku to be inferior to Super Buu pre-Gotenks/Piccolo/Gohan? They should have the same power, and Kid Buu's unpredictability supposedly makes him even more dangerous.

carver9
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Even though Goku tells us that even if he fused with Vegeta, he'd still never be able to beat 3-5% Beerus?

Because their fused state was a lot stronger than Buuhan, let alone Buutenks.



Mystic Gohan also got completely outshowed by this Vegeta.

Also, why would you consider Kid Buu/SSJ3 Goku to be inferior to Super Buu pre-Gotenks/Piccolo/Gohan? They should have the same power, and Kid Buu's unpredictability supposedly makes him even more dangerous.

thumb up

juggerman
Goku knew Beerus only used a fraction of his power to beat him. I don't think he would compare Vegito to Beerus at the level he used to beat Goku. He estimated fusion wouldn't be enough to beat Beerus at all not Beerus at that level. Vegeta did not surpass Vegito. Not even close

NewGuy01
Clearly he massively surpassed Majin Buu, SSJ3 Goku, and Mystic Gohan though. thumb up

juggerman
Yes but Gohan was possibly weaker than his Buu Saga self seeing as how in less than a year he dropped several magnitudes in power.

Vegeta did surpass Goku and Fat Buu but both of them were HUGELY inferior to SSJ3 Gotenks, Super Buu, Buutenks and Buuhan

One Big Mob
Originally posted by juggerman
Yes but Gohan was possibly weaker than his Buu Saga self seeing as how in less than a year he dropped several magnitudes in power.

Vegeta did surpass Goku and Fat Buu but both of them were HUGELY inferior to SSJ3 Gotenks, Super Buu, Buutenks and Buuhan Goku was already more powerful than Gotenks by a large degree a year or so earlier.

juggerman
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Goku was already more powerful than Gotenks by a large degree a year or so earlier.

Goku was never above Gotenks until after he went SSJG. Before that he was considered equal only to SSJ1 Gotenks and that was in his SSJ3 form.

It should also be noted that was before Gotenks trained in the time chamber so it's likely he further eclipsed SSJ3 Goku

Time-Immemorial
I'm with bran, I think Goku could slap Gotenks around a year or so earlier as well.

One Big Mob
Originally posted by juggerman
Goku was never above Gotenks until after he went SSJG. Before that he was considered equal only to SSJ1 Gotenks and that was in his SSJ3 form.

It should also be noted that was before Gotenks trained in the time chamber so it's likely he further eclipsed SSJ3 Goku SS Goku one shotted someone who Gotenks couldn't put down with many attacks in base and SS form.

At the absolute least he was equal to Gotenks.

And that's actually direct, not speculation based on statements on a power not yet seen or a throwaway line when Goku was still kind of hiding SS3 from Vegeta. Though what happened back then is irrelevant anyway considering even if he was behind, he more than caught up.

carver9
Originally posted by juggerman
Goku knew Beerus only used a fraction of his power to beat him. I don't think he would compare Vegito to Beerus at the level he used to beat Goku. He estimated fusion wouldn't be enough to beat Beerus at all not Beerus at that level. Vegeta did not surpass Vegito. Not even close

This is wrong. Goku didn't know what Beerus used. Beerus last words to Goku before attacking him was "now let me show you the power of a god". Let's not make up things here.

Bentley
Pft, at this point Vegeta fusing with Goku would weaken him.

I guess this will be "Vegeta master race" until Frieza gets resurrected and shows these monkeys how training is done.

juggerman
Originally posted by One Big Mob
SS Goku one shotted someone who Gotenks couldn't put down with many attacks in base and SS form.

At the absolute least he was equal to Gotenks.

And that's actually direct, not speculation based on statements on a power not yet seen or a throwaway line when Goku was still kind of hiding SS3 from Vegeta. Though what happened back then is irrelevant anyway considering even if he was behind, he more than caught up.

Who did Goku one shot?

juggerman
Originally posted by carver9
This is wrong. Goku didn't know what Beerus used. Beerus last words to Goku before attacking him was "now let me show you the power of a god". Let's not make up things here.

It isn't wrong. As I said Goku could clearly see Beerus didn't use a fraction of his power by the way he easily stomped him. That's why his Vegito statement seemed more like a guess than a outright fact. I haven't made a thing up. That's more your style stick out tongue

bbrem123
Originally posted by Galan007
Bootenks wins.

Going by the manga, rage-boosted Vegeta could have been 10x> SSJ3 Goku, and never even approached the level of Bootenks(who was 2x> Mystic Gohan.)

thumb up

He was clearly charging the Galick Gun:
http://i.imgur.com/t72aZU3l.jpg You have to remember that this vegeta and goku are far superior to their dbz counterparts. So that math is inaccurate.

bbrem123
Originally posted by juggerman
Yes but Gohan was possibly weaker than his Buu Saga self seeing as how in less than a year he dropped several magnitudes in power.

Vegeta did surpass Goku and Fat Buu but both of them were HUGELY inferior to SSJ3 Gotenks, Super Buu, Buutenks and Buuhan There was absolutely no indication that Mystic Gohan was weaker than his Buu Saga self. They showed him going into his mystic form which means he is the same power as before.

juggerman
Originally posted by bbrem123
There was absolutely no indication that Mystic Gohan was weaker than his Buu Saga self. They showed him going into his mystic form which means he is the same power as before.

Which is why i said "possibly". I didn't hinge my argument on it just pointing it out as a possibility

Placidity
Originally posted by Galan007

Going by the manga, rage-boosted Vegeta could have been 10x> SSJ3 Goku


Wow, more reasons why I'm starting to dislike DBS.

Does AT even give a shit at this point?

bbrem123
Originally posted by juggerman
Which is why i said "possibly". I didn't hinge my argument on it just pointing it out as a possibility This thread really depends of if Goku and Vegeta are superior to Buu Saga Mystic Gohan or not. Which I think they are based on what the episodes showed.

carver9
Originally posted by juggerman
It isn't wrong. As I said Goku could clearly see Beerus didn't use a fraction of his power by the way he easily stomped him. That's why his Vegito statement seemed more like a guess than a outright fact. I haven't made a thing up. That's more your style stick out tongue

Lol...Goku wouldn't have know if Beerus wasn't complete though. Him easily taking Goku out doesn't mean he wasn't using a fraction of his power (in Goku eyes) because Goku wouldn't have had a way of knowing this. None whatsoever. Especially with Beerus telling him he is about to show him the power of a god.

Also, Goku made it sound like a definite on not being able to beat Beerus (let alone challenge him) if him and Vegeta merged.

juggerman
Originally posted by carver9
Lol...Goku wouldn't have know if Beerus wasn't complete though. Him easily taking Goku out doesn't mean he wasn't using a fraction of his power (in Goku eyes) because Goku wouldn't have had a way of knowing this. None whatsoever. Especially with Beerus telling him he is about to show him the power of a god.

Also, Goku made it sound like a definite on not being able to beat Beerus (let alone challenge him) if him and Vegeta merged.

Goku saw Beerus not break a sweat. You really think Goku, a freaking fighting genius, wouldn't realise Beerus wasn't using his full power? Wow carver. Just wow.

He didn't think it would be enough but he was hardly sure.

Kento
Vegeta with Rage Boost is above Mystic Gohan, maybe even close to as strong as Buutenks. But you have Piccolo's mind, with Gotenks Kamikaze Ghost, and Volleyball attacks, and Buu's abilities. If Vegeta ends up stronger, Buu just absorbs him like he always does with stronger opponents.

carver9
Originally posted by juggerman
Goku saw Beerus not break a sweat. You really think Goku, a freaking fighting genius, wouldn't realise Beerus wasn't using his full power? Wow carver. Just wow.

He didn't think it would be enough but he was hardly sure.

Ok, I don't think you understand what I mean by holding back and not holding back. Goku did not know Beerus was using his complete power during that fight. He could have been at 100% and easily dismissed Goku (which is what Goku was thinking during this fight since Beerus did say he is about to show Goku the power of a God). Goku had no idea Beerus was using such a small percentage against him. He would not have known since again, Beerus power is unreadable by Goku.

Do you get it now? mad

juggerman
Originally posted by Kento
Vegeta with Rage Boost is above Mystic Gohan, maybe even close to as strong as Buutenks. But you have Piccolo's mind, with Gotenks Kamikaze Ghost, and Volleyball attacks, and Buu's abilities. If Vegeta ends up stronger, Buu just absorbs him like he always does with stronger opponents.

I doubt Vegeta was above Mystic Gohan in the Buu Saga. Super Buu was at least 8x stronger than SSJ3 Goku. We know this because we know SSJ1 Gotenks was about equal in power to SSJ3 Goku an he needed a SSJ3(a boost of 8x) to compete evenly with Super Buu. Gohan was likely around twice as strong as Buu by the way he treated him. Meaning Gohan would've been somewhere in the realm of 16x SSJ3 Goku.

Beerus using 10% of his power to deal wit Vegeta doesn't mean Vegeta was at 10% of Beerus. But even if it did, we're looking at him being maybe 10x stronger than Goku. Still not Mystic Gohan or Buutenks levels

carver9
Originally posted by juggerman
I doubt Vegeta was above Mystic Gohan in the Buu Saga. Super Buu was at least 8x stronger than SSJ3 Goku. We know this because we know SSJ1 Gotenks was about equal in power to SSJ3 Goku an he needed a SSJ3(a boost of 8x) to compete evenly with Super Buu. Gohan was likely around twice as strong as Buu by the way he treated him. Meaning Gohan would've been somewhere in the realm of 16x SSJ3 Goku.

Beerus using 10% of his power to deal wit Vegeta doesn't mean Vegeta was at 10% of Beerus. But even if it did, we're looking at him being maybe 10x stronger than Goku. Still not Mystic Gohan or Buutenks levels

This doesn't make any sense since we've seen how Beerus and Gohan faired. Gohan got treated like fodder whereas Vegeta tanked a full fledged hit from Beerus and kept attacking. Vegeta was far above Gohan.

Galan007
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Even though Goku tells us that even if he fused with Vegeta, he'd still never be able to beat 3-5% Beerus? Goku certainly wasn't under the impression that the power Beerus displayed during their battle was his max... He knew Beerus was holding back immensely.

That said, Goku was logically guesstimating that a theoretical 'all-out'/100% Beerus would be > Vegetto/Gogeta.

Originally posted by bbrem123
You have to remember that this vegeta and goku are far superior to their dbz counterparts. So that math is inaccurate. A few episodes ago, Vegeta could barely even move in 150G, and was completely taxed after a few seconds of training... Yet you'd have me believe he was > than his Boo-era-self(pre-rage boost.)

I disagree.

juggerman
Originally posted by carver9
Ok, I don't think you understand what I mean by holding back and not holding back. Goku did not know Beerus was using his complete power during that fight. He could have been at 100% and easily dismissed Goku (which is what Goku was thinking during this fight since Beerus did say he is about to show Goku the power of a God). Goku had no idea Beerus was using such a small percentage against him. He would not have known since again, Beerus power is unreadable by Goku.

Do you get it now? mad

Frieza can't read ki at all yet still knew Goku was holding back his power in their fight. Goku is a much better fighter and strategist than Frieza. Im sure there are other examples too but to assume he thought Beerus was using his full power doesn't really go with what we know about Goku.

What you're saying seems like you just want to put these guys at levels they aren't at yet.

carver9
@Galan...


Holding back his true power or holding back a percentage of the power he was using against Goku? There's a difference.

juggerman
Originally posted by carver9
This doesn't make any sense since we've seen how Beerus and Gohan faired. Gohan got treated like fodder whereas Vegeta tanked a full fledged hit from Beerus and kept attacking. Vegeta was far above Gohan.

The numbers don't lie. Gohan likely was weaker here than at end of Z

carver9
Originally posted by juggerman
The numbers don't lie. Gohan likely was weaker here than at end of Z

The numbers? Where are you getting numbers for a mutated Vegeta?

Galan007
Originally posted by carver9
@Galan...


Holding back his true power or holding back a percentage of the power he was using against Goku? There's a difference. Holding back his true power.

bbrem123
Originally posted by Galan007
A few episodes ago, Vegeta could barely even move in 150G, and was completely taxed after a few seconds of training... Yet you'd have me believe he was > than his Boo-era-self(pre-rage boost.)

I disagree. I am talking about raged Vegeta. Sorry I did not clarify.

bbrem123
Yea there was nowhere that indicated Gohan was any weaker than is Buu Saga self

carver9
Originally posted by bbrem123
Yea there was nowhere that indicated Gohan was any weaker than is Buu Saga self

thumb up

Galan007
Originally posted by bbrem123
I am talking about raged Vegeta. Sorry I did not clarify. No worries. thumb up

RB Vegeta was definitely > SSJ3 Goku, but I don't think the difference was anything but marginal, tbh... Or at least it wasn't implied to be. /shrug

Kento
Originally posted by juggerman
I doubt Vegeta was above Mystic Gohan in the Buu Saga. Super Buu was at least 8x stronger than SSJ3 Goku. We know this because we know SSJ1 Gotenks was about equal in power to SSJ3 Goku an he needed a SSJ3(a boost of 8x) to compete evenly with Super Buu. Gohan was likely around twice as strong as Buu by the way he treated him. Meaning Gohan would've been somewhere in the realm of 16x SSJ3 Goku.

Beerus using 10% of his power to deal wit Vegeta doesn't mean Vegeta was at 10% of Beerus. But even if it did, we're looking at him being maybe 10x stronger than Goku. Still not Mystic Gohan or Buutenks levels 16x ssj3 Gokou, like about two years ago. We've seen how fast Gokou and Vegeta can improve in just a year. ssj2 Gokou and Vegeta were equals. So, in DBZ Gokou is 4x Stronger. That probably really doesn't change at all, because Vegeta never goes ssj3.

So in a year that 16x probably goes down considerably. Gokou has probably become at least Super Buu level at full power as we've seen him get more than 20x more powerful from Radditz to Vegeta (400 to 8,000), and in months 12x from Vegeta to fighting Captain Ginyu (8,000 to 90,000). After that, power levels kind of fade away. So, 2 years, 8x stronger isn't very hard to believe.

So it's completely possible that Rage Boost Vegeta is at the very least Mystic Gohan levels, or between Mystic and Buutenks.

One Big Mob
Vegeta was a lot more powerful in the movie it seems. Even without the rage boost he took a massive amount of real attacks (not chopsticks and touches) before finally going down. Plus he did more damage in the rage boost form. No galick gun though.

Galan007
Despite the fact that I loathe Fat Boo's characterization in DBS, he definitely takes the prize for soaking the most damage from Beerus, imo(even an energy attack.)

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by bbrem123
But in all seriousness. Nearly everything happening in DBS is beyond anything every shown in DBZ

NewGuy01
Originally posted by Galan007
No worries. thumb up

RB Vegeta was definitely > SSJ3 Goku, but I don't think the difference was anything but marginal, tbh... Or at least it wasn't implied to be. /shrug

It's a stupid concept, but Hyper!Vegeta did do a *lot* better against Beerus, not just a little.

That being said, thinking on it, I might have to agree Buutenks could win--might depend on how log Vegeta's rage lasts.

Astner
It would make a lot more sense if Vegeta tapped into part of his godhood (or whatever it's called) during the rage.

Speaking of which. Has the nature of divine ki been revealed yet?

NewGuy01
I wasn't aware godly ki was inherent in Saiyans.

No, he just got really angry, and he became more than ten times as powerful as he was.

juggerman
Originally posted by carver9
The numbers? Where are you getting numbers for a mutated Vegeta?

What % did Beerus use to beat Goku?

juggerman
Originally posted by Kento
16x ssj3 Gokou, like about two years ago. We've seen how fast Gokou and Vegeta can improve in just a year. ssj2 Gokou and Vegeta were equals. So, in DBZ Gokou is 4x Stronger. That probably really doesn't change at all, because Vegeta never goes ssj3.

So in a year that 16x probably goes down considerably. Gokou has probably become at least Super Buu level at full power as we've seen him get more than 20x more powerful from Radditz to Vegeta (400 to 8,000), and in months 12x from Vegeta to fighting Captain Ginyu (8,000 to 90,000). After that, power levels kind of fade away. So, 2 years, 8x stronger isn't very hard to believe.

So it's completely possible that Rage Boost Vegeta is at the very least Mystic Gohan levels, or between Mystic and Buutenks.

You'd have a point if this theory wasn't proven wrong in the Cell Saga. The Saiyans can only train their bodies so much before they plateau. Vegeta spending years and years in the time chamber didn't allow him to surpass Goku and Gohan and they didn't even use the full year. And Vegeta likely wasn't even Cell Games Gohan strong until the Majin boost yet he trained for 7 years. The only reason Goku became so much stronger is because he was able to train in Otherworld where his natural limitations could be surpassed because he didn't have a living body.

It's been established that training with a partner is what got them the gains in the Cell Saga(Goku and Gohan). Training alone isn't as good. Neither Goku nor Vegeta have been training with a partner in this gap so it is unlikely they grew much stronger.

I know they had massive gains in the Namek arc but that basically stopped as soon as they got back to Earth. Guess they reached the point where they needed different training to keep growing

carver9
Originally posted by juggerman
What % did Beerus use to beat Goku?

Could've been less than 1%. Nothing was ever dictated on if he even used a piece of his power.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by juggerman
What % did Beerus use to beat Goku?

Probably 5%, though that's just an educated guess.

Galan007
Originally posted by Astner
Speaking of which. Has the nature of divine ki been revealed yet? All we know is that Godly cannot be sensed by mortals. That's why only Gods/Kaio/Kaioshin can sense Beerus and Whis.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
It's a stupid concept, but Hyper!Vegeta did do a *lot* better against Beerus, not just a little.

That being said, thinking on it, I might have to agree Buutenks could win--might depend on how log Vegeta's rage lasts. I think that was more due to Beerus not being prepared for such a massive gain in power, given that he'd previously owned Vegeta with no effort whatsoever. IOW, Vegeta caught him off-guard initially, then Beerus was like: "Holy crap, I actually have to power up a little bit against this guy!" /shrug

Yeah, I definitely don't think RB Vegeta possesses the means to incapacitate Bootenks... Tbh, Boo's Kamikaze Ghosts alone would give him hell.

juggerman
Originally posted by carver9
Could've been less than 1%. Nothing was ever dictated on if he even used a piece of his power.

Could've also been 5%. Or 6 or 7

carver9
Originally posted by juggerman
Could've also been 5%. Or 6 or 7

Something would've been mentioned during the fight if be had to boost his power. Nothing was said.

juggerman
Originally posted by carver9
Something would've been mentioned during the fight if be had to boost his power. Nothing was said.

Not that he boosted it, that the power he used from jump was 5% or even higher

carver9
Originally posted by juggerman
Not that he boosted it, that the power he used from jump was 5% or even higher

Nothing was shown of this being true.

juggerman
Originally posted by carver9
Nothing was shown of this being true.

Nothing was shown that he used less than a percent either yet you seem to be convinced of it

carver9
Originally posted by juggerman
Nothing was shown that he used less than a percent either yet you seem to be convinced of it

He didn't power up. My assumption seems to be more concrete than yours.

juggerman
Originally posted by carver9
He didn't power up. My assumption seems to be more concrete than yours.

That makes no sense. Him not powering up could mean he walks around normally at 5%. No need to power up from his standard. Pretty simple concept

Kento
Originally posted by juggerman
You'd have a point if this theory wasn't proven wrong in the Cell Saga. The Saiyans can only train their bodies so much before they plateau. Vegeta spending years and years in the time chamber didn't allow him to surpass Goku and Gohan and they didn't even use the full year. And Vegeta likely wasn't even Cell Games Gohan strong until the Majin boost yet he trained for 7 years. The only reason Goku became so much stronger is because he was able to train in Otherworld where his natural limitations could be surpassed because he didn't have a living body.

It's been established that training with a partner is what got them the gains in the Cell Saga(Goku and Gohan). Training alone isn't as good. Neither Goku nor Vegeta have been training with a partner in this gap so it is unlikely they grew much stronger.

I know they had massive gains in the Namek arc but that basically stopped as soon as they got back to Earth. Guess they reached the point where they needed different training to keep growing
Vegeta didn't spend years and years. He spent two years. And we don't really know how much Vegeta improved in the second year because, we see Gokou fight, and then Gohan. He wasn't as strong as Gokou sure, but there is no way to know exactly how much weaker he was. Its never even mentioned and just thrown to the side.

Vegeta never achieved ssj2 in those 7 years, but he didn't seem too care about Dabura's power level, thinking he could defeat someone on Cell's level. And yes, Vegeta is cocky about power. But usually he knows when he can win.. It just happens then they transform and beat him so he most definitely got a lot stronger and was Cell level before Majin Boost.

Galan007
Originally posted by carver9
Something would've been mentioned during the fight if be had to boost his power. Nothing was said. Not really. Beerus only mentioned having to use 10% of his power, because it had evidently been a long time since he had to use that much energy against an opponent.

This certainly doesn't mean he wasn't using 5-8% against SSJ3 Goku... Especially when you consider how impressed Beerus and Whis were with his power. If he were using less than 1%(like you say), he wouldn't have been impressed at all.

juggerman
Originally posted by Kento
Vegeta didn't spend years and years. He spent two years. And we don't really know how much Vegeta improved in the second year because, we see Gokou fight, and then Gohan. He wasn't as strong as Gokou sure, but there is no way to know exactly how much weaker he was. Its never even mentioned and just thrown to the side.

Vegeta never achieved ssj2 in those 7 years, but he didn't seem too care about Dabura's power level, thinking he could defeat someone on Cell's level. And yes, Vegeta is cocky about power. But usually he knows when he can win.. It just happens then they transform and beat him so he most definitely got a lot stronger and was Cell level before Majin Boost.

He did spend a few years in it. There were ten days before the Cell Games. Piccolo took a day and Trunks did too I think. Possibly one other person did as well and Vegeta demanded he use the rest. Now arguing he wouldn't use it the day of for obvious reasons, that leaves between 6 and 7 days he used it. 6-7 years and still was not as powerful as the others

He was unimpressed by Dabura because he felt stronger in Super Perfect Cell and Gohan. He was also playing annoyed to further his cause in gaining the Majin Boost. He specifically stated he allowed Babadi to see the evil in him. That was all part of the plan.

But even if he did make it to Cell level, it took him around 14 years to do so including the time chamber training. And that would have been a boost of maybe 2-3x at most.

Kento
Originally posted by juggerman
He did spend a few years in it. There were ten days before the Cell Games. Piccolo took a day and Trunks did too I think. Possibly one other person did as well and Vegeta demanded he use the rest. Now arguing he wouldn't use it the day of for obvious reasons, that leaves between 6 and 7 days he used it. 6-7 years and still was not as powerful as the others

He was unimpressed by Dabura because he felt stronger in Super Perfect Cell and Gohan. He was also playing annoyed to further his cause in gaining the Majin Boost. He specifically stated he allowed Babadi to see the evil in him. That was all part of the plan.

But even if he did make it to Cell level, it took him around 14 years to do so including the time chamber training. And that would have been a boost of maybe 2-3x at most. It was stated you can't use the room more than twice though.

juggerman
Originally posted by Kento
It was stated you can't use the room more than twice though.

Vegeta did tho. Or maybe he used it all at once.

Galan007
Vegeta used the Room once, prior to fighting Semi-Perfect Cell. He used the Room again just before the Cell Games. He was in there 2 days/years total, which is the maximum amount of time you can be in the Room before the gateway closes behind you.

Day 2 wasn't implied to give he and Trunks much of a boost, though. In fact, Goku warned him that spending another day in the RoSaT was a bad idea as it was more akin to torture then training.

juggerman
Originally posted by Galan007
Vegeta used the Room once, prior to fighting Semi-Perfect Cell. He used the Room again just before the Cell Games. He was in there 2 days/years total, which is the maximum amount of time you can be in the Room before the gateway closes behind you.

Day 2 wasn't implied to give he and Trunks much of a boost, though. In fact, Goku warned him that spending another day in the RoSaT was a bad idea as it was more akin to torture then training.

Was the extra days just filler than? If so I apologise

Kento
Vegeta wanted to use it the whole time. But was told he couldn't. Because of the 2 times ordeal. What he did the rest of the time, who knows.

Galan007
thumb up

Here's the scene from the manga:
http://i.imgur.com/wXeNkzrm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/hk1QmwPm.jpg

juggerman
Gotcha. My bad

yungz22
vegeta with just a rage boost is not enought to beat buutenks..... maybe when he taps into god mode later down the line but just with rage boost hell no.


you have to also keep in mind that vegeta wouldnt be able to keep that assault going for long

juggerman
I assumed the OP just meant him at that level. If it was just a temp boost then yeah he's got no shot at all. Beating Buu would take time and strategy. Don't see a raging Vegeta all that tactical

bbrem123
Originally posted by yungz22
vegeta with just a rage boost is not enought to beat buutenks..... maybe when he taps into god mode later down the line but just with rage boost hell no.


you have to also keep in mind that vegeta wouldnt be able to keep that assault going for long Maybe when he taps into god mode? He sh*ts all over any DBZ character at that point.

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