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Quinlan Vos (dark disciple)vs Darth Vader Rebels Lothal

after Rebels vader neutralizes Kanan Jarrus and Ezra as you saw in the Rebels Episode Lothal sytem,

just as Vader is about to murder Kanan and Ezra with a lightsaber and forcechoke Ezra

quinlan vos shows up and orders Vader to put them down.

Quinlan and Vader look at one another while Kanan and Ezra flee on a ship for another day.

frst question 1- who wins

if you think Vos wins, Vader can be "rescued" by storm troopers to preserve continuity.

Vader can "lose", be saved by his troopers, and live to fight another day in Rebels. make a cool story since a Vader lose would obviously entice Sidious to replace Vader with Vos.

second question - do you hope to see this fight in a future episode of Rebels?

its clear we will eventually see Vader vs Ashoka Tano and Vader will kill Ashoka Tano.

Vader's too powerful for Vos to take a majority, IMO.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Vader's too powerful for Vos to take a majority, IMO.

itd make a fun episode of rebels, which i think is far inferior to tcw. vos is fully flesh vader lost most of his force potential when he got burned to a crisp

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Vader's too powerful for Vos to take a majority, IMO.

Because he really went all out with his force abilities against Kenobi, right?

Kanan held his own against vader

Originally posted by redpill
Kanan held his own against vader

lol

No he didn't. He got stomped by Vader who was toying with him. Repeatedly.

Originally posted by carthage
Because he really went all out with his force abilities against Kenobi, right?

?

Vader. Easily

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Vader. Easily

if Rebels does feature Vos vs Vader, for entertainment reasons it will not be "easy".

Rebels might even have Vos defeat Vader, with emperor asking Vos to kill Vader and offering a place by his side, convincing Vader he must be rid of him.

Originally posted by redpill

its clear we will eventually see Vader vs Ashoka Tano and Vader will kill Ashoka Tano.

Nah, what will happen is that Ahsoka will put Vader on his hide, and be stopped from killing him by Kanan/old Jedi Master that survived order 66/Rex

TFU style

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Nah, what will happen is that Ahsoka will put Vader on his hide, and be stopped from killing him by Kanan/old Jedi Master that survived order 66/Rex

TFU style

i can see disney doing something like that.

DD Vos wins, he can dodge Vader's slow robotic attacks, DD Vos is a sith, he wins.

People honestly think Disney will let Vader loose to Ahsoka, let alone a random ass Jedi... Lmao. Disney isn't Lucas. This is a company that is setting up a Vader fanboy as the major villain of their next trilogy.

Vos proved to be vastly superior to Ventress, who can easily uproot trees with a gesture, and slow the fall of her ship, The Banshee. Not to mention he did beat Dooku in a saber duel, and overpower him via physical strength. Other than force augmentation, I don't remember if Vos had a force advantage in it's offensive applications such as TK.

That said, Vader wins. He muses being more powerful than Anakin--who has consistently matched Dooku in duels and powerful enough that Dooku's own power only gave Dooku an edge vs being "throw around like a toy--with the gap between him and Anakin being pretty large, IIRC. Plus that, Vader's armor can withstand saber strikes and having two small imperial walkers collide on top of him unscathed, two walkers that he casually levitated off of him seconds later. When being hunted by Twilek freedom fighters, Vader pulled one of their freighters from the sky. The book referred to these freighters as "big ships," so I'm assuming they were bigger than the average ones, but of course another interpretation could be that they were called big ships because freighters are larger than shuttles or tie fighters, etc; regardless, the interior of freighters are very spacious and are as big as small apartments, and can house several people comfortably, having bed rooms and such (well the disk shaped ones anyway, which is how the twilek freighters were described). Also, Vader, while in mid-flight, targeting and tearing open three vulture droids with one single gesture, while they too were in mid-flight, is not only a display of raw TK but a very precise and refined use of it. Then with one handed force pushes, we had him shattering lyleks--huge creatures with shells capable of shrugging off blaster bolts (see Obi Wan vs gutkurrs on youtube to see just how good their resistance to blaster bolts are and durability since they have comparable armor/shells). In one of the new canon comics, Vader casually lifted the front part of an AT-AT walker, while simultaneously ripping it apart, Magneto style. Vader's physical strength is such that with one arm he lifted the queen lylek (who towers over the other lyleks), and gripped both of Kanan's arms, disarming Kanan and sending him flying, rendering him unconscious.

As far as pure lightsaber ability, Vos's advantages over Dooku seemed to be his physicality. It's said Vos was unpredictable, but in terms of what? Pacing? Pretty vague term the author threw in there, and one hard to use as an advantage in these type of discussions, unless one is a master of multiple forms and can switch, or even a variety of other martial arts that can be used in conjunction with saber dueling. But that wasn't the case with Vos, as far as I'm concerned, the only thing that changed was his physicality upon getting stronger, everything he knew came from his experience as a jedi and his retraining under Ventress as a dark sider, which, oddly, Dooku capitalized on only after Vos opened his mouth and mentioned it. Dooku should have recognized it after a long exchange. So, yeah, that's my stance on the term "unpredictable" being used as an argument, unless it's explained. For instance, Savage can be labeled as being unpredictable here due to his unusual strength. I just see that term being used here just because the word was used in a book as if it can't be applied the other way around.

BTW, I'm obviously only referring to their canon feats for this thread. Vader's a beast already, with even more to come, huh Cart? Why is he so scared of anal head? Lol, jk.

His advantage was mainly speed over Dooku, and this is an advantage which he enjoys a noticeable advantage over Vader. Canon Dooku can move faster than Obi wan can perceive, make his blade appear everywhere, ETC. Vos's speed/mobility advantage to ANH Vader is a huge advantage. Vader is vastly more powerful, but as seen in his duel with Kanan/Kenobi he is a duelist foremost.

Its a no brainer who'd win there, Vader lost most of his better feats with the end of the Legends canon. Vos fought evenly with Ventress while poisoned/against an amped Ventress, and demolished Ventress after having been tortured for days by Dooku and was faster than she was nearly overwhelming her. Vader struggled to put down Kenobi who was a shadow of his former self. Vader's preference to engage in a duel, likely means he loses before using his force abilities.

Originally posted by carthage
His advantage was mainly speed over Dooku, and this is an advantage which he enjoys a noticeable advantage over Vader. Canon Dooku can move faster than Obi wan can perceive, make his blade appear everywhere, ETC. Vos's speed/mobility advantage to ANH Vader is a huge advantage. Vader is vastly more powerful, but as seen in his duel with Kanan/Kenobi he is a duelist foremost.

Its a no brainer who'd win there, Vader lost most of his better feats with the end of the Legends canon. Vos fought evenly with Ventress while poisoned/against an amped Ventress, and demolished Ventress after having been tortured for days by Dooku and was faster than she was nearly overwhelming her. Vader struggled to put down Kenobi who was a shadow of his former self. Vader's preference to engage in a duel, likely means he loses before using his force abilities.

if Disney is feeling generous we might see this in Rebels. ofc Vader will have to be rescued if he loses.

I can see Disney could make it happen since a story could be Sidious pitting vader vs vos to be his new apprentice.

Quinlan Vos says he wants to be Sidious apprentice, and Sidious says defeat Vader.

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8367lhZwJ1qivssg.gif

Originally posted by carthage
His advantage was mainly speed over Dooku, and this is an advantage which he enjoys a noticeable advantage over Vader. Canon Dooku can move faster than Obi wan can perceive, make his blade appear everywhere, ETC. Vos's speed/mobility advantage to ANH Vader is a huge advantage. Vader is vastly more powerful, but as seen in his duel with Kanan/Kenobi he is a duelist foremost.

Its a no brainer who'd win there, Vader lost most of his better feats with the end of the Legends canon. Vos fought evenly with Ventress while poisoned/against an amped Ventress, and demolished Ventress after having been tortured for days by Dooku and was faster than she was nearly overwhelming her. Vader struggled to put down Kenobi who was a shadow of his former self. Vader's preference to engage in a duel, likely means he loses before using his force abilities.


It was a combination of both speed and strength, and speed adds a great deal more to one's strength, with the impact of the clashes being even more taxing, thus slowing the opponent considerably. Strength isn't a factor against Vader, though Vos's speed might council out Vader's own strength advantage.

And it's not that simple. We are discussing who is all around more powerful/skilled and what they are capable of when driven to kill, not what they are inclined to do against people who are inferior, unless specified otherwise. Therefore you can't use people like Kanan as a representation of what Vader is capable of. All that fight did was show Vader was so far superior to them that he had the decision not to go full throttle.

For example, Palpatine chooses to torture, bully or play with his victims unless he is forced to unleash himself. That's because mostly everyone except for Yoda and now perhaps Windu are so far below Sidious that he can choose how he wants to fight, and is not forced.

As for Obi Wan, which new canon source states he's a shadow of his former self? Because Vader musings eight years after his fight with Kenobi suggest he is more powerful than Anakin in a combatant context. Only thing that changed about Anakin was his ability to reach his full potential after becoming Vader, but it didn't hinder his ability to become more powerful at all. If Obi Wan is a shadow of his former self, then that would only suggest Vader was holding back, otherwise Kenobi should have been force fodderized. Even Maul is capable of subduing Kenobi with the force, and that was apparently Kenobi in his prime, if he indeed slowed. Maul isn't as powerful as Vader. Of course you could say "well that was pure fencing," but if one is holding back to any degree than it's hard to establish by how much unless you are that person, but we do know there was some yielding and that's all we do know. That's why I didn't get into a saber portion, until Vader gets more exposure against better combatants. But with all the hype Vader is getting in new canon, his own musings (don't think he's lying to himself) and showings so far, I don't see it as being that cut in dry in Vos's favor, TBH.

i think if DIsney shows us vos vs vader it will end in a draw with one of them escaping or being rescued

if you are familiar with x-men, quinlan vos could be the wolverine to the sabretooth in vader.

Um there is no mention of Quinlan being physically stronger than Dooku in their duel, He won by speed, constant motion, and unorthodox movements over Dooku. Its relevant because Vader's style is more centered and confined due to his limited mobility, and even Dooku's more polished style was circumvented by Vos's constant motion/unpredictability. He's described as having danced around Dooku:

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4672352



He drew his lightsaber against Kanan and went straight for a duel, its not Vader's MO to instantly abuse his power. Canon Vader hasn't beaten an opponent as skilled as Ventress or has a feat comparable to besting Dooku, his showings aren't comparable at all in terms of skill.









He was being pressed in the duel and couldn't break his defense. He may have been more powerful, but he never attempted to use his force abilities due to being pressed in the fight. In the fight's depiction in the novel he never had an explicit edge in skill nor did it state anything about holding back.




Glad to see you agree about Vader dying due to not having better feats

basically vos vs dooku was like yoda vs dooku, vos being faster as yoda was. dooku couldn't overcome yoda's speed nor vos. so vader vs vos would be like yoda vs vader.

Lightsabers: A Guide to the Weapons of the Force was released in, like, 2010. It isn't a new canon source.

Originally posted by carthage
Um there is no mention of Quinlan being physically stronger than Dooku in their duel, He won by speed, constant motion, and unorthodox movements over Dooku.


Um, the fact that Quinlan was able to over power Dooku physically by keeping him down, whereas their first fight had Dooku easily flip him and proceed to over power Vos to the point where Vos could barely move, would prove Vos got stronger. Strength manifests itself in saber clashes, and slows the opponent, giving the other an even bigger advantage in speed, causing the opponent to struggle in keeping up. After all, Dooku was disarmed by the strength and ferocity of Vos's strike. (can't accomplish that on speed alone).

This was also after Dooku force handled Vos twice. Even then Dooku held the advantage in offensive force moves. That means Vader has an even greater advantage in that area.



Originally posted by carthage
Its relevant because Vader's style is more centered and confined due to his limited mobility, and even Dooku's more polished style was circumvented by Vos's constant motion/unpredictability.


Where talking about the new canon here. The only sources that suggest Vader was limited in mobility came from the EU. Therefore your argument would apply more to EU Vader.

While it's easy to see that Vader isn't as agile as he was as Anakin, he has a much stronger connection to the force, and doesn't need to be as agile in order to react to beings faster than he is. Ventress is much more agile than Dooku, but usually ends up getting stomped by Dooku in pure saber contests. He was outpacing her + 3 other jedi at once, while blind due to his stronger connection to the force. Logically, Vader, 'mainly focusing on saber ability' as you are suggesting, would have far better precognition/reaction speed/reflexes than Anakin.


Originally posted by carthage
He's described as having danced around Dooku:


Yes, I know. Vos had a good advantage in speed, as he would against Vader, except Vader is much stronger than Vos, thus Vos's saber strikes wouldn't be as taxing on Vader, and Vader would have better chances in not losing his saber. And even if he does somehow lose it, well that's when Vader would have no other option but to use the force and seize Vos with it, right? So either way, it'll come down to Vader's force, unless you think Vos would blitz Vader. If so, why would you place any version of Vader above Dooku?

The only advantage Vos has here is offensive/striking speed. Remember, though, Vader was able to direct his attention among three flying vulture droids, targeting them and ripping them open with one casual gesture, while he himself was in mid-flight.


Originally posted by carthage
He drew his lightsaber against Kanan and went straight for a duel, its not Vader's MO to instantly abuse his power. Canon Vader hasn't beaten an opponent as skilled as Ventress or has a feat comparable to besting Dooku, *his showings aren't comparable at all in terms of skill.*


Yeah, I saw the fight, but as I said, we're discussing what Vader is capable of doing, not what he does to opponents in which he's so far above that he has the choice to decide how he fights them. The point of these discussions are to establish a difference in power levels and ability of individuals by putting them in scenarios where they are fighting to win, which is why we usually try to match them against characters whom are close in term of combat. We can't come to such conclusions if we keep harping on what they prefer to do to people that they can kill instantly with their saber or ragdoll with the force. Vader has shown that he could just about do and outright do the former and latter to both Kanan and Ezra at the same time. And from what I've seen, Kanan and Ezra are pretty powerful, raising up and holding together an old jedi temple, keeping it from collapsing. Kanan seemed to always be just as powerful as the inquisitor, just lacked the focus, which he gained by their last fight, defeating the inquisitor.

*Hopefully he lives up to his hype then, right?*



Originally posted by carthage
He was being pressed in the duel and couldn't break his defense. He may have been more powerful, but he never attempted to use his force abilities due to being pressed in the fight. In the fight's depiction in the novel he never had an explicit edge in skill nor did it state anything about holding back.


Yeah, in the EU that was the case, which is why it was hard to argue in his favor against someone like Dooku, despite all of Vader's destructive displays of raw power. He was hard pressed to defeat an old Ben who had his connection to the force weakened by fear of using it and no longer having trust in it (The Last of the Jedi, 1st book, IIRC), whereas Dooku could flatten peak Kenobi in seconds via the force or his ability with a lightsaber.

The EU was inconsistent with Vader, and only the EU, to my knowledge, states that Kenobi became weaker in the force. See that is subject to change, as well as the circumstance of that fight with new canon.



Originally posted by carthage
Glad to see you agree about Vader dying due to not having better feats


And is confirmed as being more powerful than Anakin and pretty much Dooku, unlike EU Vader. Vader's your guy, Cart. I'm just stating what's more probable with new canon Vader. The arguments you used against your guy would apply more to EU Vader, making EU Dooku his solid superior. As much as I like Dooku, with the way Disney is presenting Vader, I doubt Vos or Dooku are going to be his superior. That's just me.

The new slate is actually looking good for Vader, especially in comparison to his fellow new canon characters.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66



Where talking about the new canon here. The only sources that suggest Vader was limited in mobility came from the EU. Therefore your argument would apply more to EU Vader.



Well pretty sure Lucas always said his mobility and machine parts effected him in a Saber fight (ANH Audio commentary) as well as his potential. I'm sure Lucas's words still count for something.

Besides his Cybernetic parts would effect him one way or the other, so we can't just pretend they've had zero impact on his Saber abilities.

Also Post ROTS Vader is more Powerful in the Force than ROTS Anakin. But that doesn't mean he'd win a Saber fight against him, which may be more dependant on his Cybernetic enhancements than it is on his Force abilities.

Also a lot will depend on how good ANH Kenobi is in the new canon (due to the ANH fight). I know Filoni places him well above any Inquisitor, and he's said the most powerful Inquisitor is just below Ventress. But then it's kind of obvious Vader is well above any Inquisitor as well.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66


The EU was inconsistent with Vader, and only the EU, to my knowledge, states that Kenobi became weaker in the force. See that is subject to change, as well as the circumstance of that fight with new canon.

Eh not really, Vader did say that his powers were weak in ANH.

"Your powers are weak old man."- Vader

Of course how much weaker, or if it was just something else dunno and the fight could still play out different as you say.

DD Vos has flesh, Vader lost most of his flesh, burnt to a crisp. both tap into the dark side but Vos has more flesh to do so. living flesh is necessary to access the force, not machine.

Vos has more living flesh to access the dark side than Vader. who is more machine than man.

Vos wins, Sidious offers him to be his new apprentice, Vos then attacks Sidious, in the season finale of rebels season 3.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Eh not really, Vader did say that his powers were weak in ANH.

"Your powers are weak old man."- Vader

Of course how much weaker, or if it was just something else dunno and the fight could still play out different as you say.


That could just be Dun Moch tbh.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
That could just be Dun Moch tbh.

he did fight like an old man

Originally posted by redpill
he did fight like an old man


And Vader fought like a Stiff Robot guy.

And Luke fought like he has no technique, just swinging his Saber like a Baseball Bat.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
And Vader fought like a Stiff Robot guy.

And Luke fought like he has no technique, just swinging his Saber like a Baseball Bat.

ikr

baseball bat lightsaber form

Originally posted by Darth Thor
That could just be Dun Moch tbh.

Eh...maybe. But is Dun Moch even noted as apart of canon?

Also I wouldn't say Luke didn't show technique, he did up until his rage moment in ROTJ.

Originally posted by redpill
DD Vos has flesh, Vader lost most of his flesh, burnt to a crisp. both tap into the dark side but Vos has more flesh to do so. living flesh is necessary to access the force, not machine.

Vos has more living flesh to access the dark side than Vader. who is more machine than man.

Vos wins, Sidious offers him to be his new apprentice, Vos then attacks Sidious, in the season finale of rebels season 3.

I like you.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Eh...maybe. But is Dun Moch even noted as apart of canon?

Yes (though I doubt it goes by the same name). We see dark siders do it all the time.

Originally posted by Trocity
I like you.

Originally posted by ares834
Yes (though I doubt it goes by the same name). We see dark siders do it all the time.

Well I was meaning by name. But yeah..

Originally posted by redpill
DD Vos has flesh, Vader lost most of his flesh, burnt to a crisp. both tap into the dark side but Vos has more flesh to do so. living flesh is necessary to access the force, not machine.

Vos has more living flesh to access the dark side than Vader. who is more machine than man.

Vos wins, Sidious offers him to be his new apprentice, Vos then attacks Sidious, in the season finale of rebels season 3.
Looks like Neph has a rival.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Looks like Neph has a rival. who is Neph?

Some cool guy everyone's jealous of.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Some cool guy everyone's jealous of.

ah so we are rivals then

I warn you, I will wage a savage and merciless campaign of seduction. You will fall. For me.

:winku:

Originally posted by Nephthys
I warn you, I will wage a savage and merciless campaign of seduction. You will fall. For me.

:winku:

why would they say we are rivals?

btw unless ur a smoking hot babe that probably not. but that is my dream a smoking hot girl who loves star wars

Consider your dreams crushed.

I win already motherf*cker.

Originally posted by redpill
why would they say we are rivals?

btw unless ur a smoking hot babe that probably not. but that is my dream a smoking hot girl who loves star wars LOL

Originally posted by |King Joker|
LOL

if a super pretty smoking hot sorority alpha phi blonde chick says quinlan vos can easily defeat darth vader, i will ask her hand in marriage

Originally posted by Darth Thor


Also Post ROTS Vader is more Powerful in the Force than ROTS Anakin. But that doesn't mean he'd win a Saber fight against him, which may be more dependant on his Cybernetic enhancements than it is on his Force abilities.




Have to reconsider this. Reading Lords of the Sith, and Cybernetic Vader does indeed augment himself physically with his Force Powers. Given that I can't see why Cybernetic Vader wouldn't be at least as good as ROTS Anakin in Sabers. In fact he might even be superior in Disney Canon.

Originally posted by redpill
if a super pretty smoking hot sorority alpha phi blonde chick says quinlan vos can easily defeat darth vader, i will ask her hand in marriage

She'll probably end up being a cop in disguise....

Vos fighting a Vader in his prime doesn't stand much of a chance

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Have to reconsider this. Reading Lords of the Sith, and Cybernetic Vader does indeed augment himself physically with his Force Powers. Given that I can't see why Cybernetic Vader wouldn't be at least as good as ROTS Anakin in Sabers. In fact he might even be superior in Disney Canon.
Well he kind of has to for his fighting style. I can't imagine him moving at the speed he does with the strength he does without some form of augmentation.

Strength? I don't see why Vader wouldn't have more physical strength than Anakin tbh.

He's crushed blasters, hurled Kanan like a ragdoll, and a few other feats thus far.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Well he kind of has to for his fighting style. I can't imagine him moving at the speed he does with the strength he does without some form of augmentation.


Well before I was thinking it was mostly his cybernetics, with a bit of aid from the force. Because mechanical limbs can't exactly have force enhanced abilities (or so I thought).

But yeah it's made clear the Force does augment his speed, just like a non mechanical force sensitive.




Originally posted by Emperordmb
Strength? I don't see why Vader wouldn't have more physical strength than Anakin tbh.


Strength was never really in question. Of course Vader is superior there.

But in the old canon it was kind of a given (especially from Lucas's words) that Mechanical Vader wasn't as good as Anakin in Sabers. Probably due to having less mobility, and relying on his cybernetics too much.

However Disney Canon seems to be suggesting Vader > Anakin in pretty much every way including Sabers. Even if he's ROTS Anakin's equal in Sabers (when he beat down Count Dooku), add in his Beastly TK then there shouldn't be much of a power difference between Vader and Sidious (In Theory).

I think one storyline is that Vos defeats Vader, Vos becomes sidious new apprentice, while Vader schemes with Ashoka to regain his status by Sidious side

Originally posted by redpill
I think one storyline is that Vos defeats Vader, Vos becomes sidious new apprentice, while Vader schemes with Ashoka to regain his status by Sidious side

Not gonna happen.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Not gonna happen.

ok may be not.

If Disney makes Vos defeat Vader, Disney has lost all credibility.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
If Disney makes Vos defeat Vader, Disney has lost all credibility.

ever read dd?

Vader rapes

Man already 4 years have passed, I remember this red pill guys as if he joined just a few months ago