LeoTaint vs DarkSaint: Filler Battle of the Century

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Blair Wind
all right, a quick little fill-in-for-fun match up with my pal ds. ATOM/WINTER is a nasty combo and this match will require a great deal of speculation--i suspect on both parts.

first, my guys.

NIMROD. ultimate evolution of the sentinels, telekinesis, shape shifting, on the fly adaptive abilities and combat analysis.




some TK:



adaptive abilities:







he's proven capable of adapting to nearly any form of attack, and he has proven able to do so almost immediately.

MIDNIGHTER: battle computer capable of running billions of scenarios in order to foresee the conclusion of battles BEFORE they are fought. he's also able to see a battle and work BACKWARDS to achieve the resolution he's looking for. and he's capable of doing that with only moderately enhanced stats and a nice healing factor. some scans. i really like the first one... shifty

Originally posted by DarkSaint85




if he could handle the AUTHORITY WITHOUT any real special powers, imagine what he'd be capable of with the vast array of abilities nimrod offers. with nighter's precog, nimrod could actually adapt abilities to counter opponents BEFORE the battle even really begins.

nighter also has access to some of the best teleportation tech out there. he can use DOORS:


nimrod himself also has teleportation:


with my adaptive and precognitive abilities, it will allow me to actually retroactively react to my opponents' opening.


i'll start by simply teleporting as far from him as i can get to allow midnighter's computer time to calculate (which happens nearly instantaneously). midnighter (as shown above lol) is very familiar with winter, and between nimrod and nighter, atom's powerset will be a completely open book.

as he shrinks, winter's absorption powers will diminish exponentially. nimrod will need to adapt a way to track atom at atomic or subatomic sizes. it's possible ds will argue that at such a small size, there will be no way for nighter to read the electrical energy in his brain. maybe, but nimrod should be able to adapt a way to track him anyway. if he stays small, it should be easy to simply overload and burn him out. i could also use the TK that held JUGGERNAUT captive, to lock onto and hold him. it's possible he could absorb the TK energy, but could he do so before i use it to choke him out as nighter did above?

and of course, i would have played this battle out in every conceivable way WELL before the battle actually begins. i will have had time to adapt whatever defense is necessary to handle whatever type of attack he tries to throw at me.

options i have: sonics, TK, shields, teleporting, doors, shape-shifting, etc. like nimrod did with shaw, i would just find the best way to counter his offense. most importantly: i have the very real and unique advantage of actually being able to wait and see what he's done BEFORE i try and counter it as though i had already seen it coming.

because i have. smile



I'm apparently judging this, so I want as much cheating and hyperbole as possible.

you know i'll do my part. thumb up

also got angryscot judging. will try and round up one more... put the word out to bada, so will see if he's interested.


lol ds NOT playing games! SUNBLAST to start?! followed by an energy ride to finish with an inside job? gotta say, that is a brilliant, well thought out plan. i didn't see that coming... fortunately, i didn't need to because the battle computer did. big grin

a split second before ATOMIC WINTER (i like that....) unloads, NIMNIGHTER (hmm, not so big on THAT though....) throws up a force field and mutters "DOOR".


this leads to all manner of problems for him....

firstly, i place the door directly in front of me (shaping it as closely as possible to a parabolic shape to best guide the energy around me) and hide behind it. all the energy from the attack passes through it, while my healing factor and force field protect me from any ambient energy that will pass above and around me. the doors are sweet:



as you can see, they can be pretty precisely shaped and located and open instantly. we also have general knowledge of our opponents, so i will know atom is an extreme size shifter and winter is an energy absorber (midnighter will know that already anyway...)

as i said, his strategy is absolutely brilliant and well backed up with excellent scans. shifty in this case though, it gets him killed. smile

how you ask? as he is giving off all his energy, he shifts size to ride the energy toward me. between him and i is a DOOR. they ride said energy, at light speed, straight through the door.

**NOTE** i haven't BFR'd anyone (that would be illegal and not count as a win.) HE JUST BFR'D HIMSELF. thumb up

and that is a VERY midnighter-esque victory. big grin

neither winter nor atom have anything remotely close to light speed reflexes and so neither could avoid their fate. in fact, the whole thing would happen in the tiniest fraction of a second as the travel distance is so small. with all the energy they output, they wouldn't even know i OPENED a DOOR, so even if they COULD react, they would never know they had to. not only would the huge energy release mask my DOOR, another problem with going so small is that they completely lose the ability to perceive the macro world. easy to understand when you realize that at that size protons are the size of moons. smile

as an added bonus: at that size, winter couldn't absorb energy. i mean, it would literally hit him as individual waves: he's RIDING a wave of it! if he could somehow do it, he'd literally be absorbing parts of a single wave at a time. lol (that mental picture is funny....)

ds claims he has a way to counter the doors, but his problem is he won't have time to counter anything. he's committed to his attack and his fate is utterly unavoidable. the only way to do so would be to KNOW the door was there, and to then prove that in LESS time than it took the energy wave to enter the door, they could somehow.... bail out, pull the ripcord, hop off the wave and catch one going....somewhere else. ENERGY WAVES ARE NOT TRAINS. ray doesn't hop on and off them at will, and even if he COULD, he could never hop off this one fast enough. he'd have needed to draft flash to avoid that. no, they'd be in the bleed before they knew what happened....and that's that.




sad well, i'll try not to disappoint so badly this time... though, i confess: it seems like he is calling into question midnighter's most basic power. "SEEING THINGS COMING," is EXACTLY what midnighter does i'm afraid....


this one is ridiculous:


i mean, seriously? he sometimes has no answer to what is happening and gets beat, and situations can deteriorate to the point where there are no options at all, but "seeing things coming" IS his power. i never said he beat the AUTHORITY without some plot--it's just not relevant because in THIS case, he is in the body of a ludicrously adaptable, cl100 sentinel, itself capable of instantly analyzing and calculating battle scenarios--just not as effectively as nighter. i'd submit that in the NIMROD body, with its strength and powers set, he could pretty easily replicate that beat down of the authority.

so, yeah. this is a rare case where in fact i DO get the chance (to a degree) to retroactively attack a strategy that was implemented. this strat just had a simple counter.




except that THIS parasol utterly and completely cuts off any of the energy immediately around me by sending it into another dimension completely. is there ambient energy? sure. but given our combined healing + force field + nimrod's OWN ability to adapt, surviving that wouldn't be a problem.

here is an inferior nimrod unit dealing with the mutant MAGMA:


with nighter's precognitive abilities, he would have already been adapting the heat sinks to further shield himself--not that much energy would get to us anyway, as we are pretty much surrounded by a DOOR...

surviving the onslaught wouldn't be an issue.


recall i teleport and put some distance between us. the instant i'm appearing i throw up the door. given my processing speed, that whole process would take...maybe 1 sec? let's look again at his sunblasting scene, shall we?

this is an important scan for a couple reasons. for the moment, look at what it took to GET him to the level where he could release the power:


this is the scene just prior:





so it took, LITERALLY, 5 pages of battle before he was able to summon up that power. now, jackson DID say it would be easier the next time:


but here, he wants you to believe that he can actually call up said power in the opening INSTANT of the match? confused i, for one, ain't buying that. it would at LEAST take a few seconds. that would give me AMPLE time to develop whatever defenses i deem necessary. even if you somehow believe he CAN do it instantly, NIMNIGHTER'S precog and analysis would calculate whether i had time to teleport AND defend or whether i should just open the DOOR instead. again, this isn't BATMAN FINDS A WAY. this is MIDNIGHTER'S ABILITY paired with NIMROD's own super-computer mind and analysis capabilities. as much as digi is looking for hyperbole, this isn't it.

the real saving grace is that i'm not required to do....pretty well ANYTHING. all i need to do is open a DOOR. nothing complicated, nothing that stretches credulity. my defense/offense couldn't be simpler.

so, yes, given the amount of time (and STRESS) that was required to bring about the power in the first place, i would CERTAINLY have time to call up the door. even if you think he CAN do it instantly, precog + computer speeds would easily let me utter DOOR before he attacks, even if i have to forego the teleporting.


hmm....nope, not buying that either. even in his own scan:


it clearly says he has is a TRANSPONDER that will let THEM teleport HIM if needed. of course, he has no access to "THEM" in this match. he doesn't get help. here again is an example. ALSO supported in yet ANOTHER of his own scans:


here he is BEGGING to be ported out. if he could have teleported himself, he absolutely would have. and yet again, REQUESTING to be teleported:



it's clear winter possesses no ability to teleport on his own. even in his SECOND set of teleport scans, (where he uses it "offensively"wink he needed someone ELSE to operate the teleportation. and obviously, THAT doesn't fly here.... mind you, that is totally different from what nighter does with the DOORS.

***(BTW, i DID ask ds if DOORS were allowed, and he gave me a thumb up )***

nighter has a more...personal link he uses to access the tech in a personal way. he does NOT radio someone and ASK for help from some person sitting in a room somewhere.....

and even if we ALLOW that type of assistance, would that transponder communicate from the bleed? it would need to signal whoever he is asking for help across a dimensional barrier. proof it could do that?

i think it's safe to say that winter does not have the ability to teleport--if he did, we would likely have seen it in his other match with beatboks. may have come in handy there. shifty




palmer required special prep to pull that off. he needed to actually alter the way his own tech worked. and of course, no prep here. so...no, time passes exactly the same for him as for me. thumb up


lol well, you can look til you're blue in the face, but you'll never find a scan that shows him hopping from one energy wave to another.... and even if we ALLOW the chance, all of the energy he radiated is heading AT me. MASSIVE amounts. even in his OWN scan it shows all the energy flowing in the same direction. now, i suppose it is possible there are stray light beams going in the opposite direction, (i mean he CAN see me....) but he may have to hop over....millions? of beams of radiant energy to even FIND one. that....just isn't happening i'm afraid.... no


he goes for broke with the sunblast, and rides the energy at me, but...i open a DOOR and he BFR's himself. pretty unavoidable at this stage. he can't teleport without the help of someone else and there is no time for him to avoid his fate. his attempt at trying to show time dilation required prep. he can't avoid BFR'ing himself.


not much time, but let's say you believe he DOES get inside me. it is NANO TECH that allows sentinels to adapt (that's also how bastion turns someone INTO a sentinel....) i could pretty easily adapt the nano tech inside me to attack him as soon as he enters and overwhelm him, or generate an internal energy field to deal with him. like i said, at that size, winter's powers would never be able to function properly and it wouldn't take much to ko them. if he tried to grow inside me, i could just turn intangible, like here as he ghosts into forge's building:


at that point, as soon as he is standing in front of me, i could pull a vision-style attack and pull his heart out. even if winter could somehow survive that (he has been ko'd physically more than once btw...) he'd be out long enough for the win.

so even assuming for the moment he DOES succeed at getting inside, he stills dies in multiple ways.

but really, none of that is necessary, as he has done my job for me.


PS--ATOMIC WINTER is better. i mean it has ATOM right in the name!

hmm, tried to edit that broken image, but....all i get is an empty text box on the edit screen. confused

trust me--the image was hilarious. sneer


cooloio. the judges btw are digi, oas and styletime. thanks for the match ds and thanks to the judges for being willing to chime in. thumb up

I'll have something Wed. or Thurs. at the latest. Am I posting here or PMing someone?

Originally posted by Digi
I'll have something Wed. or Thurs. at the latest. Am I posting here or PMing someone?

Leo told me to post it in here when I finish mine.

Leo, I just want you to know, I am not mad at you.

Just disappointed.

Only kidding mate, it was a fun match!


story of my life. i thought it was fun and it gave me something to do, so cheers. thumb up

and i did tell the judges to just go ahead and post their rulings right in this thread when finished. figured it was just for funnsies, so we could cut out the middleman. if you'd rather have them pm rulings to bw or someone, that's fine by me as well.

They should pm their rulings to me.

Flawless Victory!

- MNer is a tricky pick. On the one hand, potential for infinite adaptation. On the other hand, since we control the characters, arguing on potential alone is risky if it isn't supported with actual methods of countering the others' plan. I've considered him numerous times but never really pulled the trigger. I'm curious to see what Leo does.
- Leo's teleport at the beginning of the match negates DS's insta-bomb. I'm also unclear how Winter immediately has enough sun energy to replicate what is arguably his best feat. DS makes an attempt at justifying this, but I'm unclear whether or not this can or should be considered a baseline feat for him.
- MNer knows Winter, so getting the drop on him is going to be tough as hell. Palmer is the key here. I have no idea how he'd be reliably taken out when paired with someone that can take as much punishment as Winter.
- Me knowing MNer well might be good or bad for Leo. I'm wondering if DS will post the scan where Angie gets a microscopic version of herself into MNer's brain. Or if Leo will counter with his mechanized tech defenses inside his brain. Either way, the tactic did work on him, but it took quite a while.
- Neither of you did. Me am disappoint. stick out tongue
- Sure, if the Carrier works, so does the Stormwatch base for teleports. Despite the one usage offensively, they're frequently an integral part of MNer's maneuvers. Winter won't be as adept in a combat situation at using numerous doors for strategic purposes.
- As befits a short match, both plans are fairly straightforward. Unfortunately, getting the drop on Nimnighter (Leo's right; terrible name) will be hard, as will wrangling a subatomic Atom.

You guys are going to hate me. This match is a damn draw. At subatomic sizes, I'm not confident Winter/Ray can take out the other duo. At anything larger, MNer wouldn't allow himself to be taken out. I give MNer the decided calculative and reflexes edge, so he's going to have the initiative indefinitely. But I don't know how Nimrod adapts to a power set that literally doesn't exist in Marvel and can render this an indefinite stalemate. And how will any attack take Winter out - whose absorption feats are well-known - before he shrinks and tries again? I could foresee scenarios where, say, a clever use of a Door could possibly kill Ray/Winter, or where Ray/Winter miraculously get the drop on Nimrod, but none were shown that I have much confidence in.

In a comic book, I think MNer finds a way eventually, but my general rule when judging is that I pretend - as much as I'm able - that I'm seeing these characters for the first time. I also don't know exactly how he'd do it, which is a problem. So I'm only working with what's presented. Leo did a nice job countering a lot of what DS said. But I don't think he did enough to show how he takes Atomic Winter out. Palmer + Winter can turtle too well, so to speak, unless there's some truly special offensive maneuver on the table. And MNer's calculative ability is too thorough to allow for lapses of the size that DS would need to have his opening.

Go ahead and shuffle your hatred/disappoint onto me. I realize what a wet fart of a judgement this is, but I'd feel disingenuous flipping a coin or something.

Originally posted by Digi
I'm wondering if DS will post the scan where Angie gets a microscopic version of herself into MNer's brain. Or if Leo will counter with his mechanized tech defenses inside his brain. Either way, the tactic did work on him, but it took quite a while.

huh. never knew....

but thanks for chiming in. even if you are a wet blanket. thumb up



thanks, oas. can't argue you don't put thought into it. thumb up

Jesus. I'll refrain from sarcasm, but sincerely, way to put some work into the ruling. It's laudable, but definitely not needed if you don't have as much time in the future.

Good lord.

And I thought it was OCD-esque when Enyalus used to post a few scans with his rulings. This is a whole new level of hyper-excessive. blink

psycho gundam
Nah that judgment was beautiful. The standard has been set.

Originally posted by leonidas
and oas would be fine by me. he's so thorough we may not even need another judge. thumb up

I graciously and humbly accept my victory.

l. o. l.

still one more to go ya bastich....

I think we need judges for OAS' judgement. Digi, take note.

My judgement should be in by the end of the day. I have no way of living up to the epicness of OAS's post though.

I shoulda gone first damnit.

Don't dwell on it too much. As long as the match has been read thoroughly, timely votes are more important than lengthy ones. Nothing has killed more matches than delayed judging.

Originally posted by Digi
Jesus. I'll refrain from sarcasm, but sincerely, way to put some work into the ruling. It's laudable, but definitely not needed if you don't have as much time in the future.

Ah don't worry it doesn't take me long at all really to do a writeup like that.

It doesn't take me long plus I enjoy doing it, like posting scans in the Ownage thread and doing this I find it all therapeutic. And with me I need that type of release sometimes.

Originally posted by StyleTime
My judgement should be in by the end of the day. I have no way of living up to the epicness of OAS's post though.

I shoulda gone first damnit. At this point you should just post a one word judgement simply saying who you voted for stick out tongue


ah well, c'est la vie. lol even though the thought experiment ended badly, i had a good time. midnighter was an itch i wanted to scratch for a while and i wanted to see how far i could push him. THIS is the reason i was afraid to draft him for something more serious, though i DO think i learned he def has some benefits thta some smart people might be willing to buy. i shall put that away for future reference. thanks to all for reading, it's much appreciated, and thanks to ds for humoring me. good time. thumb up

Thanks Leo, for letting me have fun. Was difficult to fight you, and your door tactic was truly unexpected.

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