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Superman from the original Christopher Reeve quadrilogy must face and destroy everything in these verses. Can he accomplish the task or he will get destroyed.

Clark must face everyone at the same time.

Clark barely knows about the foes he will face.

The verses have some knowledge about Clark and his weakness.

Clark is bloodlusted.

The verses have a week of prep.

Every feat from their latest installment counts.

Battlefield: Earth and solar system. If it's not enought the entire Galaxy counts as well.

Prof X puts him to sleep forever.

Good thread

My Marvel universe which has Star Wars obliterates this weakling.

If we add Nuclear Man to help Clark and gives them full knowledge?

xaiver, hancock and some very strong mind techniques from the best jedi or sith have the best chance at this


yeah give him nuclear man

He isn't winning, way too many factors and way too many powerhouses for him to contend with.

Superman eats them.

lol this damn shit is so funny..


Reeve Supes turned back time... He stomps these A-Holes

Oh. I guess he's going to run away through time to before the match started so he doesn't get beat down.

Reeves Supes is untouchable

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
lol this damn shit is so funny..


Reeve Supes turned back time... He stomps these A-Holes

Superman is FTL and lifted a ****ing small country or some shit

He solos this shit effortlessly

Originally posted by KingD19
Oh. I guess he's going to run away through time to before the match started so he doesn't get beat down.

They know that the TP users will be able to beat him, so pretending this is CBR and having him act massively OOC is their only choice.

Originally posted by Silent Master
They know that the TP users will be able to beat him, so pretending this is CBR and having him act massively OOC is their only choice.

Xavier could hold him in place and Hancock could slowly shove a truck through his skull.

Originally posted by KingD19
Xavier could hold him in place and Hancock could slowly shove a truck through his skull.

Superman fanboy: But what about that tactic he used once, you know, the one that he has never used in combat.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Superman fanboy: But what about that tactic he used once, you know, the one that he has never used in combat.

Clark's one chance of victory

watch?v=aV4CqelFTlA

Originally posted by KingD19
Xavier could hold him in place and Hancock could slowly shove a truck through his skull. Why would someone thousands of times weaker than him be able to physically harm him?

Superman is bloodlusted in this thread. This means he would not hesitate to kill everyone in this thread before they could even think to form the battle plan you suggested.

Superman turns Xavier to a puddle of flesh tissue and blood with a single punch and proceeds to kill everyone else.

Provide clips of him attacking people before they can think.

He's moved so fast he can turn the planet back in time, which would be relativistic-FTL, at the very least

Are you seriously trying to say he can't attack someone with no speed feats before they can think?

Hancock slowing shoving a truck through Supes skull is some ****ing bullshit.

Guy who lifted a small country won't be hurt by a truck

Not to mention the moon moving.

So, no clips of him attacking people before they can think?

Guys, MCU and everyone else is given a week of prep. I'm talking Reed Richards, Silver Surfer, Galactus, Prof X, Dr Doom, everyone.

Not to mention the DCCU would have access to Kryptonite, wouldn't they?

Massive stomp, I mean masssive stomp..... I mean wow.

Edit. I mean, how's he even going to hurt the Surfer? The guy can just stay phased the whole time and just shove a kryptonite rock up his super panties.

Reeve Superman is powerful but he gets stomped in this thread. The combined teams have so much power variety that they cannot be beaten by simply being superfast and superstrong.

Originally posted by playa1258
Not to mention the moon moving.

Huh, didn't know about that one, then again, only ever saw the first movie and Superman Returns, though you'd be looking at several zettatons of energy at the very least, dependent on how fast he moved it

Originally posted by Silent Master
Provide clips of him attacking people before they can think. I could ask you to provide clips of Hancock shoving a truck through someone's skull, which you never disputed and backed up. But then you're an idiot, so you wouldn't see the hypocrisy between denying one stance and supporting the other, lol.

I don't need to prove Superman can move fast. It's well-documented.

Let me cut in before you make your obvious response with your very simple brain:

"So you can't actually show me him attacking people before they can think?"

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Guys, MCU and everyone else is given a week of prep. I'm talking Reed Richards, Silver Surfer, Galactus, Prof X, Dr Doom, everyone.

Not to mention the DCCU would have access to Kryptonite, wouldn't they?

Massive stomp, I mean masssive stomp..... I mean wow.

Edit. I mean, how's he even going to hurt the Surfer? The guy can just stay phased the whole time and just shove a kryptonite rock up his super panties. The Fantastic Four shit isn't a part of the MCU

Originally posted by NemeBro
I could ask you to provide clips of Hancock shoving a truck through someone's skull, which you never disputed and backed up. But then you're an idiot, so you wouldn't see the hypocrisy between denying one stance and supporting the other, lol.

I don't need to prove Superman can move fast. It's well-documented.

Let me cut in before you make your obvious response with your very simple brain:

"So you can't actually show me him attacking people before they can think?"

As I never claimed that Hancock would do so, you would be better served asking the person that actually made that claim for proof.

I can however post multiple clips of Superman's fights that clearly show his fighting speed to be rather slow.

A few thoughts on Superman turning back time:

1. That was a flight speed feat not a combative speed feat. Unless Superman can turn back time everyime he moves.

2. It took him multiple rotations around the world to turn back time which seems to suggest that he had to work up to his final velocity, meaning he isn't always that fast. In comparison, Arrowverse Flash was able to go back in time by simply running back and forth a few miles.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why would someone thousands of times weaker than him be able to physically harm him?

Because people have done it before? Supes has been harmed by humans and missiles.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The Fantastic Four shit isn't a part of the MCU

Pardon me. I sometimes forget the MCU separation with other franchises.

Kitty+Prof X mind stop then.

How imba is Reeves Superman?

Can he push the Earth into the Sun for example?

He could prolly push the moon there if he wanted to

Originally posted by FrothByte
Reeve Superman is powerful but he gets stomped in this thread.


LOL. Reeve's Superman never "gets stomped" by anyone or any team. If anyone is doing any "stomping" here it's Supes. Hell, just about the entire team he's facing here could easily be oneshotted by him before they could do anything. The only real threat to him is Professor X and we don't even know if X's telepathy/mind control will work on him because we've never seen him try it on a kryptonian. Kryptonians aren't human. Humans are a primitive race compared to them. Common sense would suggest they have stronger minds and therefore greater resistance to being MC'ed. Clark has shown mind powers of his own when he gave Lois that kiss at end of Superman 2 which made her forget what Clark wanted her to. So obviously his mind is much stronger than anything X has faced before.

So even though Superman has zero feats of tp resistance, you're just going to grant him immunity?

Originally posted by Star428
LOL. Reeve's Superman never "gets stomped" by anyone or any team. If anyone is doing any "stomping" here it's Supes. Hell, just about the entire team he's facing here could easily be oneshotted by him before they could do anything. The only real threat to him is Professor X and we don't even know if X's telepathy/mind control will work on him because we've never seen him try it on a kryptonian. Kryptonians aren't human. Humans are a primitive race compared to them. Common sense would suggest they have stronger minds and therefore greater resistance to being MC'ed. Clark has shown mind powers of his own when he gave Lois that kiss at end of Superman 2 which made her forget what Clark wanted her to. So obviously his mind is much stronger than anything X has faced before.

Yesh sure. Superman's intellect is so advanced that he keeps getting outsmarted by lex Luthor who's a normal, non-powered human.

Don't forget that Phoenix is also part of the Xmen team, so is Emma Frost.

Then you have cosmic beings like Thanos, Maelkith w/ aether, Odin, The Collector, Ronan w/ gem, etc and we have no idea how they will affect Superman.

Superman gets stomped.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I could ask you to provide clips of Hancock shoving a truck through someone's skull, which you never disputed and backed up. But then you're an idiot, so you wouldn't see the hypocrisy between denying one stance and supporting the other, lol.

I don't need to prove Superman can move fast. It's well-documented.

Let me cut in before you make your obvious response with your very simple brain:

"So you can't actually show me him attacking people before they can think?"

I love it when people try to use the "combat speed" argument on characters they're arguing against, yet when you use their set of 'logic' against them, they don't bother to quantify their own character's "combat speed" at all, they just spout "lawl speed lines, blurs and afterimages ftw!"

Anyways, the TP users are massive glass cannons with no speed feats, Superman can just vaporize them with the air pressure of his lazy arm movements



Same reason DBZ characters don't bust planets in every single fight they're in even though they tend to fight all out alot on planets, or why Gold Saints are universe busters even though their fights don't even destroy the country they're on, and list goes on throughout fiction

Welcome to fiction bruvva



The fact he could anything rotate around the earth puts him orders of magnitude above every other character here in speed, that I'm aware of here anyways

Time travel is often treated as a different ability from FTL speed in fiction

Originally posted by Star428
LOL. Reeve's Superman never "gets stomped" by anyone or any team. If anyone is doing any "stomping" here it's Supes. Hell, just about the entire team he's facing here could easily be oneshotted by him before they could do anything. The only real threat to him is Professor X and we don't even know if X's telepathy/mind control will work on him because we've never seen him try it on a kryptonian. Kryptonians aren't human. Humans are a primitive race compared to them. Common sense would suggest they have stronger minds and therefore greater resistance to being MC'ed. Clark has shown mind powers of his own when he gave Lois that kiss at end of Superman 2 which made her forget what Clark wanted her to. So obviously his mind is much stronger than anything X has faced before.

Having a magical mindwiping kiss and being Kryptonian does not mean he possesses any telepathic resistance. Plus, you are forgetting about Emma and Phoenix, and the Mind Gem, which is a cosmic artifact (that is part of an even larger cosmic artifact) which predates humanity, so pretty sure it isn't limited to working on humans either.

Also, Cisco Ramon solos using some ridiculous gun he made from spare parts he found lying on some table.

Behold, Superman's massive fighting speed HiGZXhs9V9s

Originally posted by Silent Master
Behold, Superman's massive fighting speed HiGZXhs9V9s




Too bad that doesn't really prove anything since that movie was made at a time when special effects technology and/or the budget of movie didn't allow for super-speed fights between characters like the way Kryptonians fought in Man of Steel. There were several instances of Superman using super speed in the 4 movies but they usually had to be off camera because of the lower technology of effects and/or they wanted to save money. How in the Hell do you think Clark/Superman was able to go on a date with both Lois and Lacy in Superman 4 without massive superspeed? I'm sure you saw the part in original Superman when Lois first interviewed him at her place. After Superman left from interview it was just 2 or 3 seconds later that he was knocking on her door as Clark. How was Clark able to catch that bullet when he was with Lois and they were getting mugged if he didn't have superspeed? There's dozens of other instances too of him using superspeed both on and off camera but I don't care to list them all. Just watch the movies, FFS.


Face facts, there's probably a hundred different ways Reeve Superman would destroy this team.

Originally posted by Star428
Too bad that doesn't really prove anything.

It proves Superman's fighting speed and skill.

Originally posted by Star428


Face facts, there's probably a hundred different ways Reeve Superman would destroy this team.

You forget that the team has a week of prep.
Superman gets stomped here.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Behold, Superman's massive fighting speed HiGZXhs9V9s

Translation: I'll just nitpick any random scene that is not indicative of any kind of capability and try and use it to downplay my opposition

Eh, maybe if it was made with flashy blurs and afterimages

Can you point out where in this scene Superman shows massive fighting speed?

HiGZXhs9V9s

"It looked slow so it mus be slow" is not a valid argument

You wanting them to be moving at superspeed isn't proof that they actually were. but if you are so sure that you're right, ask Imp for a Mod ruling.

This isn't CBR, mod rulings aren't (or at least shouldn't be) a thing

Meh, maybe if they were leaving flashy speed lines and afterimages, oh hang on, those are tropes

You're just mad that Superman wasn't shown to actually have superhuman fighting speed.

HiGZXhs9V9s

Speed feats (Superman rotating around the earth Gotenks style) are indicative of a character's ability and unless we have reason to believe they were going much slower, we don't assume they are for no reason, you could pull that argument in any fictional universe, isn't Occam's Razor just fun?

Abusing the style over substance "argument" won't cut it regardless of how much you spout it ad nauseum, try again

Also plz never debate Saint Seiya or DBZ here, kthnx

Your fan wanking aside, we actually know how fast Superman can fight.

HiGZXhs9V9s

So, you going to actually make an argument for once, or just stick your head in the sand and make snide passive aggressive remarks, as usual?

I have a clip showing Superman's fighting speed, all you have is wishful thinking.

HiGZXhs9V9s

>blah blah nothing of substance here just style over substance abuse and stonewalling

Nice regurgitated bullshit, no real arguments or attempts to quantify it, just abuse of the style over substance bullshit because "screw actual feats they don't look that impressive to me so it's not", presenting absolutely no attempts at quantification or disproving of actual feats, so I'll ask again, do you even have a ****ing argument at all or are you just going to keep sticking your head in the sand, as all you're doing here is just stonewalling in the face of actual feats

Basically all you're doing is just sticking your head in the sand and going "nah nah dun look fast to me so it's not" and not providing any rebuttal or counterargument to anything me, NemeBro or Star provided, or even any basic quantification of feats, seriously, you could do this for any verse, and not just for speed

I have a clip from the actual movie that backs up my stance, all you have is wishful thinking.

Seriously though, if your main argument is basically nitpicking every single teensy tiny thing and claiming they don't look fast then that's just damn sad, as I said, you could pull that argument in any fictional universe that isn't the Suggsverse

Fact of the matter is that speed feats only happen a few times in most fictional universes in several forms, rest of it is common sense and assuming they're not going slower for no reason (Occam's Razor is your friend here)

I mean frankly, nobody's going to give a shit if x person's favorite DBZ character zipped around the planet several times in seconds yet when the saga's namesake villain steamrolls him they don't even zip across the city, yet it'd be laughable to claim they were going much slower for no reason

And if that's not a concept you've grasped by now, then what the hell you're doing in vs debating I'll never know

Originally posted by Silent Master
I have a clip from the actual movie that backs up my stance, all you have is wishful thinking.

>no attempts to quantify anything
>style over substance 'argument'
>expects to be taken seriously

Top kek

HiGZXhs9V9s

Yeah that's what I thought "just nitpick any random unquantifiable scene and try and imply this overrides actual feats"

Unfortunately for you, vs debating doesn't work that way

I like how posting an actual fight scene that shows Superman's fighting speed gets called "nitpicking a random scene".

HiGZXhs9V9s

4 pages. are people actually making a case that Reeve wins this?


team has a week's worth of prep and they have a guy on their side who created an alchemy gun in 2 hours.

Reeve dies immediately.

stupid thread.

Originally posted by marwash22
4 pages. are people actually making a case that Reeve wins this?


team has a week's worth of prep and they have a guy on their side who created an alchemy gun in 2 hours.

Reeve dies immediately.

stupid thread.

Yeah, people keep forgetting the "1 week of prep" stip. They also seem to keep discounting both the geniuses and cosmic entities on the team side.

Yeah, most of fiction is quantifiable, like how most animu fights are basically just speed tropes with no set speed being stated or w/e and purty explosions that aren't above gigajoules, until you find an actual quantifiable speed feat, which puts into perspective how fast/powerful they actually are, unless the fight is like say, Yusuke vs Sensui where they zip between mountain ranges and blow them the **** up which can be quantified, which is fairly hard to come by in fiction

One of muh OBD mates scoured through the Fantastic Four comics and only found 10ish quantifiable feats per 50 issues

Or how Bleach goes for most of the decade before it gets a quantifiable hypersonic feat and takes 580 chapters to get another one, with a bunch of supersonic calcs along the way

Or DBZ takes until the Freiza Saga to get it's first planet busting feat, then gets another one at the Buu Saga, then another one ~BOTG, yet how they're planet busters

You can't just make a random quantified statement and go "oh but that doesn't look impressive to me so it isn't", else I could do the same for, well, pretty much any fictional universe ever really. Matter if fact if you were to use your erm, "methodology", most of fiction would only be low end superhuman (love how you haven't even bothered to quantify anything you've presented yet, btw)

Instead of whining about ppl showing actual on screen showings of Reeveman's speed showings in actual fights, maybe you can go ahead and post proof of something that can be seen as a form of a rebuttal?

Also, are you forgetting one week prep stip here? Or are you just ignoring it?

I mean, you seem to be insisting that Superman fights at superspeed, yet when shown proof of HOW he actually fights on screen, you insist on that it is not valid because you say so? At least post evidence of Reeveman fighting at superspeed so that we can at least try and have a debate about it.

And yes "it looks slow, so it is slow" is actually a very valid argument as we can also quantify it by getting actions/second based on visual reference alone.

Originally posted by marwash22
4 pages. are people actually making a case that Reeve wins this?




LMAO. Are people actually making a case that Reeve Superman will actually somehow lose this? Now that's really ****ing funny, dude. Team dies almost instantly. Without kryptonite or magic the one week of prep won't help them much.

Superman's fighting speed isn't enough to kill everyone on the team "almost instantly".

Originally posted by Star428
LMAO. Are people actually making a case that Reeve Superman will actually somehow lose this? Now that's really ****ing funny, dude. Team dies almost instantly. Without kryptonite or magic the one week of prep won't help them much.

There are people here who'd argue Asura from Asura's Wrath can lose to the Bleachverse or that Thor can lose to the Narutoverse, Godzilla can lose to the Harry Potter verse or that SSJ3 Goku can beat Gold Saints, you'd be surprised and appalled at what lengths people are willing to go to to attempt to get their way here

Originally posted by Star428
LMAO. Are people actually making a case that Reeve Superman will actually somehow lose this? Now that's really ****ing funny, dude. Team dies almost instantly. Without kryptonite or magic the one week of prep won't help them much.

Hancock alone can keep Superman occupied for quite a bit. Enough time for the telepaths to scramble his brains. Odin is also on the team,, now there's magic for you.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
There are people here who'd argue Asura from Asura's Wrath can lose to the Bleachverse or that Thor can lose to the Narutoverse, Godzilla can lose to the Harry Potter verse or that SSJ3 Goku can beat Gold Saints, you'd be surprised and appalled at what lengths people are willing to go to to attempt to get their way here

You mean like ignoring posted clips that prove Superman doesn't fight at superspeed?

Originally posted by Silent Master
You mean like ignoring posted clips that prove Superman doesn't fight at superspeed?

Or keep ignoring details like "team gets 1 week prep" and "Superman has no defense against telepaths" or "Hancock alone could keep Superman preoccupied for quite some time".

Does Prof X have any feats of mentally affecting anything other than Humans or the off shoot of humans(mutants)? I ask because I don't think we can just assume X can affect Superman without some proof.

Originally posted by juggerman
Does Prof X have any feats of mentally affecting anything other than Humans or the off shoot of humans(mutants)? I ask because I don't think we can just assume X can affect Superman without some proof.

IOW, you want to grant Superman TP immunity, even though he has zero feats to back it up.

Originally posted by Silent Master
IOW, you want to grant Superman TP immunity, even though he has zero feats to back it up.

IOW I don't want to grant Prof X powers he doesn't have. Why do you?

Originally posted by juggerman
Does Prof X have any feats of mentally affecting anything other than Humans or the off shoot of humans(mutants)? I ask because I don't think we can just assume X can affect Superman without some proof.

You're thinking of this backwards. Prof X. has been shown to affect humans and enhanced humans, even so far as having a battle of wills with a cosmic entity (Phoenix).

Superman has zero, ZERO feats of TP resistance.

In this scenario, it's more logical to assume Prof. X can TP attack a kryptonian because he actually has feats supporting him attacking other beings... than it is to assume Superman can block TP attacks because he has never, not once shown any skill to do so.



None of us are giving Prof. X powers he doesn't have. Part of Prof. X's powerset is that he's able to attack someone's mind. He has proven himself with that power so we're not granting him any powers he has not displayed before.

You're the one giving Superman powers that aren't supported by feats.

Besides, even if we disregard Prof. X, will you claim that Superman is also immune to Dark Phoenix?

Originally posted by FrothByte
You're thinking of this backwards. Prof X. has been shown to affect humans and enhanced humans, even so far as having a battle of wills with a cosmic entity (Phoenix).

Superman has zero, ZERO feats of TP resistance.

In this scenario, it's more logical to assume Prof. X can TP attack a kryptonian because he actually has feats supporting him attacking other beings... than it is to assume Superman can block TP attacks because he has never, not once shown any skill to do so.

Phoenix wasn't a cosmic entity in the XMCU.

I'm not suggesting he can resist it at all. I'm asking how can we say X can affect him at all? If X can't affect an alien mind then there is nothing for Kal to resist

Originally posted by FrothByte
None of us are giving Prof. X powers he doesn't have. Part of Prof. X's powerset is that he's able to attack someone's mind. He has proven himself with that power so we're not granting him any powers he has not displayed before.

You're the one giving Superman powers that aren't supported by feats.

Besides, even if we disregard Prof. X, will you claim that Superman is also immune to Dark Phoenix?

And Hal Jordan's power set is to create "anything he can think of" yet people like Silent have argued he can't regardless of what his power set is. Why does X get special treatment?

Again I'm not giving Supes anything. I do not think he could resist a TP assault. I'm just not convinced X can provide one on a alien

What's the best feat Phoenix has

Originally posted by juggerman
Phoenix wasn't a cosmic entity in the XMCU.

I'm not suggesting he can resist it at all. I'm asking how can we say X can affect him at all? If X can't affect an alien mind then there is nothing for Kal to resist

If Phoenix wasn't a cosmic entity, or at the very least an alien entity then what was she?

Superman was brought up by humans. He thinks like a human, he behaves like a human, he talks like a human, he has emotions like a human. Telepathy is all about affecting one's thinking process. If you can prove that Superman doesn't think like a human then you have a case.

Originally posted by FrothByte
If Phoenix wasn't a cosmic entity, or at the very least an alien entity then what was she?

Superman was brought up by humans. He thinks like a human, he behaves like a human, he talks like a human, he has emotions like a human. Telepathy is all about affecting one's thinking process. If you can prove that Superman doesn't think like a human then you have a case.

It was like a split personality type thing iirc. Not once was it hinted at that the power came from anywhere besides Jean herself.

Superman being raised by humans has nothing to do with his biology. His mind, like the rest of him, operates differently than ours. I'm not talking about how he processes information exactly. But the way his brain just is. And iirc Charles has had trouble holding people in the past and they were well within his established power set. All I'm asking some sort of evidence Charles can affect alien beings. Without it I don't see how we can just assume he can

Originally posted by juggerman
It was like a split personality type thing iirc. Not once was it hinted at that the power came from anywhere besides Jean herself.

Superman being raised by humans has nothing to do with his biology. His mind, like the rest of him, operates differently than ours. I'm not talking about how he processes information exactly. But the way his brain just is. And iirc Charles has had trouble holding people in the past and they were well within his established power set. All I'm asking some sort of evidence Charles can affect alien beings. Without it I don't see how we can just assume he can

No, Superman has proven that his physicality is different but not how his mind works. If you can prove that his mind works differently than ours then you have a case. Otherwise it's just guesswork.

After all, Superman has been proven he can breed with a human. His mind seems to react to the same stimuli as humans do.

Name me people whom Prof. X has had trouble containing?

But heck even if you don't want to use Prof X. there's also Scarlet Witch, and she's been proven that she can mess with alien minds.


Also, the Phoenix being just an alter ego to Jean is such a ridiculous understatement.

Originally posted by FrothByte
No, Superman has proven that his physicality is different but not how his mind works. If you can prove that his mind works differently than ours then you have a case. Otherwise it's just guesswork.

After all, Superman has been proven he can breed with a human. His mind seems to react to the same stimuli as humans do.

Name me people whom Prof. X has had trouble containing?

But heck even if you don't want to use Prof X. there's also Scarlet Witch, and she's been proven that she can mess with alien minds.


Also, the Phoenix being just an alter ego to Jean is such a ridiculous understatement.

His mind is a part of him. His entire body is alien including his mind. No evidence X can affect it in the least.

You do have a point about the breeding tho but unfortunately that isn't a part of the original films. OP didn't include Returns.

I can name two. Shaw and Raven. Raven I think he was weakened for but I'm not 100% on that. Shaw on the other hand he had trouble holding because he was so powerful after absorbing the nuke energy

SW can affect Kal imo. I'm not arguing that

Not really. X said something about a darker part of her mind that manifested and strarted calling itself the Phoenix. What else would we call it?

Bottom line is that Superman has zero feats of resisting TP.

Bottom-er line is that Xavier has zero feats of affecting alien minds.

Originally posted by juggerman
Bottom-er line is that Xavier has zero feats of affecting alien minds.

Do you have any proof that having an alien mind makes you immune to TP?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Do you have any proof that having an alien mind makes you immune to TP?

Do you have any proof Xavier can affect an alien mind in any way in the first place? Don't need resistance to something he can't do

Originally posted by juggerman
Bottom-er line is that Xavier has zero feats of affecting alien minds.

Xavier may not have gone up against aliens but at least he has feats of actually using TP which is more than what you can say for Superman - who has ZERO feats of resisting TP from humans or anyone else.

Basically, we're debating with a glass half full, you're debating with a completely empty glass.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Xavier may not have gone up against aliens but at least he has feats of actually using TP which is more than what you can say for Superman - who has ZERO feats of resisting TP from humans or anyone else.

Basically, we're debating with a glass half full, you're debating with a completely empty glass.

You're granting Xavier powers he's never shown. Basically you're giving him a no limits fallacy.

I've stated several times now that I do not think this version of Superman has any TP resistance at all. Why do you keep trying to pretend that is my stance?

Originally posted by juggerman
Do you have any proof Xavier can affect an alien mind in any way in the first place? Don't need resistance to something he can't do

I'll take that as a no, you don't have any proof. which means your entire argument relies on fan speculation and fan speculation has never been accepted as proof on this board.

Originally posted by juggerman
You're granting Xavier powers he's never shown. Basically you're giving him a no limits fallacy.

I've stated several times now that I do not think this version of Superman has any TP resistance at all. Why do you keep trying to pretend that is my stance? Because you're clearly implying it.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Because you're clearly implying it.

I'm not at all. Read what I've said regarding the issue

Originally posted by Silent Master
I'll take that as a no, you don't have any proof. which means your entire argument relies on fan speculation and fan speculation has never been accepted as proof on this board.

Still waiting on your proof.....

Originally posted by juggerman
Still waiting on your proof.....

You're the one claiming that being an alien makes Superman immune to TP, thus the burden is on you.

But if it will make you feel better, I can easily post proof that Prof X has TP.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You're the one claiming that being an alien makes Superman immune to TP, thus the burden is on you.

But if it will make you feel better, I can easily post proof that Prof X has TP.

I never said it makes him immune to TP. Another strawman

Great. Now all you have to do is prove his TP works on other wordly beings

Implying that Lightsabers wouldn't cut through Superman's fleshy Kryptonian insides...

Originally posted by juggerman
Bottom-er line is that Xavier has zero feats of affecting alien minds.

Thats implication.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Implying that Lightsabers wouldn't cut through Superman's fleshy Kryptonian insides...

Did I imply that?

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Thats implication.

My statement was in regards to Xavier's ability not to Superman's immunity. Look at it this way: If I said Black Widow's punches couldn't hurt Abomination would that now mean Abomination has an immunity to punches? That's kinda how you're treating this

Originally posted by juggerman
I never said it makes him immune to TP. Another strawman

Great. Now all you have to do is prove his TP works on other wordly beings

No, all we have to do is prove that Prof X has TP, if the other side wants to claim it won't work on someone, then they have to provide proof.

Originally posted by Silent Master
No, all we have to do is prove that Prof X has TP, if the other side wants to claim it won't work on someone, then they have to provide proof.

There's no proof it works on any other wordly body. This is not specific to Superman

LMAO@"Reeve Supes has zero feats of TP resistance". Of course Reeve Superman has ZERO feats of TP resistance because no one has tried TPing him. Some people are so dumb. Fact is, Superman's mind is much stronger than anything X has ever encountered. To just automatically assume his TP will work on him "just because he has telepathy powers" is quite stupid. It's much more plausible to assume that since Reeve Superman is based-on Superman from the comics (who has shown very strong TP resistance) that the movie version will have it also.

I just remembered Xavier couldn't TP Emma Frost while she was in her diamond form but had no trouble while she was normal. That's 3 times he's had trouble

Originally posted by juggerman

My statement was in regards to Xavier's ability not to Superman's immunity. Look at it this way: If I said Black Widow's punches couldn't hurt Abomination would that now mean Abomination has an immunity to punches? That's kinda how you're treating this

Abom has plenty feats showing he can tank blunt trauma attacks far more powerful than Black Widow's punches. He HAS feats.

Again, Superman has no feats showing he's immune to TP. Or if you prefer it said on your terms, there is no proof that Prof. X's TP doesn't work on aliens.

Look, there's proof Prof. X has TP and has used it quite powerfully. If you want to prove that it will fail against a certain opponent the burden of proof is on you.

Why is it on you? Because we already proved Xavier has TP.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Abom has plenty feats showing he can tank blunt trauma attacks far more powerful than Black Widow's punches. He HAS feats.

Again, Superman has no feats showing he's immune to TP. Or if you prefer it said on your terms, there is no proof that Prof. X's TP doesn't work on aliens.

Look, there's proof Prof. X has TP and has used it quite powerfully. If you want to prove that it will fail against a certain opponent the burden of proof is on you.

Why is it on you? Because we already proved Xavier has TP.

That's my point. Just because BW can't do something doesn't mean others can't. Same thing here. Just because Xavier can't, doesn't make Supes totally immune

Here's the problem with that: We don't have to prove he can't do something. That would be proving a negative. You have to prove he can. A part of that would be proving he can indeed affect aliens

Originally posted by FrothByte
No, Superman has proven that his physicality is different but not how his mind works. If you can prove that his mind works differently than ours then you have a case. Otherwise it's just guesswork.

After all, Superman has been proven he can breed with a human. His mind seems to react to the same stimuli as humans do.



LOL. So what? IT's also been shown that his mind is much stronger than humans or else he wouldn't have been able to make Lois forget what he wanted her to forget when he kissed her at end of the second film. Funny how you like to ignore that.

Originally posted by juggerman
There's no proof it works on any other wordly body. This is not specific to Superman

Do you have any proof to back this up, or is it just more fan speculation on your part?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Do you have any proof to back this up, or is it just more fan speculation on your part?

Do I have any proof Xavier has never affected any aliens? Yes In fact I do.

Originally posted by juggerman
Do I have any proof Xavier has never affected any aliens? Yes In fact I do.

All we have to do is prove that Prof X has TP, you are the ones calling into question whether or not his TP will work on Superman and as such the burden of proof is on you.

Originally posted by Silent Master
All we have to do is prove that Prof X has TP, you are the ones calling into question whether or not it will work on Superman and as such the burden of proof is on you.

So a no limit's fallacy then? That's cool if you want to go that route I guess.

Question: Can Xavier TP Xenomorphs? Hulk? Imhotep? Galactus? Dr. Manhattan? Zeus? Morgan Freeman god? Just wanna know where you draw the line if you do at all.

Originally posted by juggerman
So a no limit's fallacy then? That's cool if you want to go that route I guess.

Question: Can Xavier TP Xenomorphs? Hulk? Imhotep? Galactus? Dr. Manhattan? Zeus? Morgan Freeman god? Just wanna know where you draw the line if you do at all.

It's not a no limits fallacy as Prof X has proven to an extremely powerful TP user and Superman has zero feats of TP resistance or immunity.

An example of the no limits fallacy would be; since Captain America can lift a motorcycle, he can lift the Empire State Building.

Originally posted by juggerman
Do I have any proof Xavier has never affected any aliens? Yes In fact I do.

Ok, what's the proof?

Originally posted by Star428
LOL. So what? IT's also been shown that his mind is much stronger than humans or else he wouldn't have been able to make Lois forget what he wanted her to forget when he kissed her at end of the second film. Funny how you like to ignore that.

So if someone can punch really hard it's automatically assumed that he can also tank punches harder than others?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Ok, what's the proof?

His "proof" is that Prof X never got a chance to try. IE it's not really proof that he can't.

Originally posted by Silent Master
It's not a no limits fallacy as Prof X has proven to an extremely powerful TP user and Superman has zero feats of TP resistance or immunity.

An example of the no limits fallacy would be; since Captain America can lift a motorcycle, he can lift the Empire State Building.

It is tho. You claim X can do something he has never shown the ability to based on him doing it to beings not relatable to Supes.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Ok, what's the proof?

The proof is the films themselves

Originally posted by Silent Master
His "proof" is that Prof X never got a chance to try. IE it's not really proof that he can't.

Yet you have no proof that he can. My proof is that he hasn't and therefore cannot be assumed to be able to. Like Wolverine has not shown the ability to regrow an arm or survive without a head. Using your logic we would have to say "well he has a powerful healing factor so uh prove he can't".

Not seeing how that makes sense

Originally posted by juggerman
The proof is the films themselves

So basically what you're saying is because there were no aliens in the X-men movies that that proves Xavier can't use TP on aliens?

You know how silly that sounds right?

Originally posted by juggerman
Yet you have no proof that he can. My proof is that he hasn't and therefore cannot be assumed to be able to. Like Wolverine has not shown the ability to regrow an arm or survive without a head. Using your logic we would have to say "well he has a powerful healing factor so uh prove he can't".

Not seeing how that makes sense

Your analysis is false though.

We're saying Xavier can use TP against Superman. Is there proof that Xavier can use TP? Yes there is. We're not granting him some completely new power (like regrowing a limb).

We're attributing to him a power that he already has.

You saying that he can't do it to an alien because he never has is like saying Paquiao's punches won't hurt a woman because we've never seen him hit a woman.

Originally posted by FrothByte
So basically what you're saying is because there were no aliens in the X-men movies that that proves Xavier can't use TP on aliens?

You know how silly that sounds right?

How exactly is that silly? Xavier has no feats of mentally affecting aliens yet we just assume he can? Again that's like assuming Wolverine can regrow a head simply because he can heal. You are giving X feats he does not have

Now to clarify, I am not claiming X can or cannot do it. I am stating that since he has never shown the ability to do so, we cannot just grant it to him because it we want it to be so

Originally posted by juggerman
How exactly is that silly? Xavier has no feats of mentally affecting aliens yet we just assume he can? Again that's like assuming Wolverine can regrow a head simply because he can heal. You are giving X feats he does not have

Now to clarify, I am not claiming X can or cannot do it. I am stating that since he has never shown the ability to do so, we cannot just grant it to him because it we want it to be so

So Superman has no feats of resisting TP so we just assume he can?

Again, your Wolverine argument is false because you're asking him to do something completely different to what he's done before. A more apt comparison would be like you saying

"Wolverine can't heal from a cut made by a longsword because we've never seen him cut by a longsword. Only a katana, but a katana isn't a longsword so there's no proof he can heal from a longsword injury".

Originally posted by FrothByte
Your analysis is false though.

We're saying Xavier can use TP against Superman. Is there proof that Xavier can use TP? Yes there is. We're not granting him some completely new power (like regrowing a limb).

We're attributing to him a power that he already has.

You saying that he can't do it to an alien because he never has is like saying Paquiao's punches won't hurt a woman because we've never seen him hit a woman.

You are giving him feats he doesn't have. Regrow info things is not a new power for Wolverine. He regrew his bone claws.

Originally posted by FrothByte
So Superman has no feats of resisting TP so we just assume he can?

Again, your Wolverine argument is false because you're asking him to do something completely different to what he's done before. A more apt comparison would be saying

"Wolverine can't heal from a paper cut because we've never seen him heal from a paper cut".

Again I never claimed Superman can resist TP

My Wolverine example fits perfectly but I can come up with others if needed

Originally posted by juggerman
Yet you have no proof that he can. My proof is that he hasn't and therefore cannot be assumed to be able to. Like Wolverine has not shown the ability to regrow an arm or survive without a head. Using your logic we would have to say "well he has a powerful healing factor so uh prove he can't".

Not seeing how that makes sense

Again, We have proven that Prof X has TP and can use is to attack, thus we have met our burden. you are the one claiming it might not work because Superman is an alien, thus you have a burden to back your stance.

Originally posted by juggerman
You are giving him feats he doesn't have. Regrow info things is not a new power for Wolverine. He regrew his bone claws.

Incorrect as Prof X does have feats of using TP, you're claiming that Superman being an alien will somehow protect him from Prof X's TP.

Thus the burden is on you.

Originally posted by juggerman
Again I never claimed Superman can resist TP

My Wolverine example fits perfectly but I can come up with others if needed

No, your Wolverine example would be akin to me saying

"Prof. X can use TP to instantaneously kill someone because he's already demonstrated he can stop someone in his tracks with TP".

What I'm saying, that Prof. X can TP Superman until proven otherwise is like saying "Wolverine can heal from a wound made by a chainsaw even though it has never been shown... unless you can prove he can't heal from a chainsaw wound".

Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, We have proven that Prof X has TP and can use is to attack, thus we have met our burden. you are the one claiming it might not work because Superman is an alien, thus you have a burden to back your stance.

But you haven't proven it would work on aliens. The problem is you want to claim it would with no proof. I'm simply stating we cannot know that since we have no evidence

Originally posted by juggerman
But you haven't proven it would work on aliens. The problem is you want to claim it would with no proof. I'm simply stating we cannot know that since we have no evidence


You are the one claiming that it either might or won't work on aliens, that means the burden is on you.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Incorrect as Prof X does have feats of using TP, you're claiming that Superman being an alien will somehow protect him from Prof X's TP.

Thus the burden is on you.

I have feats of Juggernaut breaking everything he runs into while powered. Can he break adamantium? Or Cap's shield? Or Superman's leg?

Originally posted by FrothByte
No, your Wolverine example would be akin to me saying

"Prof. X can use TP to instantaneously kill someone because he's already demonstrated he can stop someone in his tracks with TP".

What I'm saying, that Prof. X can TP Superman until proven otherwise is like saying "Wolverine can heal from a wound made by a chainsaw even though it has never been shown... unless you can prove he can't heal from a chainsaw wound".

No it wouldn't. We've seen Wolverine regrow parts. A head is a part. Same concept

Originally posted by juggerman
But you haven't proven it would work on aliens. The problem is you want to claim it would with no proof. I'm simply stating we cannot know that since we have no evidence

Would you want to simply get Imp to make a ruling?
In the previous battles we've seen here I believe we've always went with "TP works on someone unless proven that someone has TP resistance".

Originally posted by Silent Master
You are the one claiming that it either might or won't work on aliens, that means the burden is on you.

The only proof is that it's never happened and therefore we cannot assume it would

Originally posted by FrothByte
Would you want to simply get Imp to make a ruling?
In the previous battles we've seen here I believe we've always went with "TP works on someone unless proven that someone has TP resistance".

I'll go with whatever the ruling says but I would ask if that goes for beings like Galactus and Freeman God. Both have no TP resistance feats

Originally posted by juggerman
The only proof is that it's never happened and therefore we cannot assume it would

Only Prof X has plenty of feats showing that he can use his TP and Superman has zero feats of resisting TP, thus if you want to claim that Prof X's TP won't work.

The burden is on you.

I asked for the ruling and will abide by what Imp says. I will refrain from adding until it's been settled

Originally posted by juggerman
I have feats of Juggernaut breaking everything he runs into while powered. Can he break adamantium? Or Cap's shield? Or Superman's leg?

Those things have feats that are higher than what Juggernaut has been shown to destroy, does Superman have feats of resisting TP that is more powerful than Prof X's?

I don't even know why we're singling out Xavier. There are at least 3 powerful TPs on the team not to mention others with more exotic mind powers. Even if we were to assume that Superman's psyche was tougher than a human's, there's no way he can survive the combined mental assault of all the psychics on the other team.

Especially not if he were fighting tooth and nail with the likes of Hancock, Vision, Thor, Zod, Faora, Cavill Superman, Flash, QS, etc. all tag teaming him.

Im Assuming "Phoenix Jean Grey" can be used? She Out TP'ed Prof. X.

DoFP Quicksilver Runs at Superman and Taps him with the Mind control sceptre before he can react.

/thread.

It's pointless to argue whether or not Xavier can affect Superman, because neither side is going to relent. Besides, the team also has Scarlet Witch, the Mind Gem, and Grodd (a telepathic gorilla, who gained his powers from extra-dimensional dark energy). And that's ignoring the week's prep, the ridiculously intelligent inventors/scientists/strategists on the team, enormous amounts of resources, and everything else the team has going for them.

Originally posted by Star428
LMAO@"Reeve Supes has zero feats of TP resistance". Of course Reeve Superman has ZERO feats of TP resistance because no one has tried TPing him. Some people are so dumb. Fact is, Superman's mind is much stronger than anything X has ever encountered. To just automatically assume his TP will work on him "just because he has telepathy powers" is quite stupid. It's much more plausible to assume that since Reeve Superman is based-on Superman from the comics (who has shown very strong TP resistance) that the movie version will have it also.

To assume Superman has telepathic resistance without feats to support it, simply because his comicbook counterpart does, is even stupider. At least there is a precedence for Xavier actually displaying TP onscreen. And it is hardly like Xavier is the only person with TP/Mind control powers on the team.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
DoFP Quicksilver Runs at Superman and Taps him with the Mind control sceptre before he can react.

/thread.

This, or a number of other ways the team, WITH A WEEK'S WORTH OF PREP, could come up with a win.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Only Prof X has plenty of feats showing that he can use his TP and Superman has zero feats of resisting TP, thus if you want to claim that Prof X's TP won't work.

The burden is on you.

You claim it will work on an alien. Burden is on you that it will

Originally posted by FrothByte
I don't even know why we're singling out Xavier. There are at least 3 powerful TPs on the team not to mention others with more exotic mind powers. Even if we were to assume that Superman's psyche was tougher than a human's, there's no way he can survive the combined mental assault of all the psychics on the other team.

Especially not if he were fighting tooth and nail with the likes of Hancock, Vision, Thor, Zod, Faora, Cavill Superman, Flash, QS, etc. all tag teaming him.

Again no one is claiming Superman has TP resistance. Well at least I'm not. I'm arguing X has no feats to suggest he can affect aliens at all

This isn't just about Superman. I would argue the same if it were Xavier vs Wolf Predator. Or him vs Drax

Originally posted by Inhuman
Im Assuming "Phoenix Jean Grey" can be used? She Out TP'ed Prof. X.

But we'd run into the same problem as Xavier. No feats on aliens.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
DoFP Quicksilver Runs at Superman and Taps him with the Mind control sceptre before he can react.

/thread.

This is a viable option and one not reliant on giving abilities to people they haven't been shown to have. Kudos

Kryptonians are aliens true, but their physiology is so similar that nothing strange ever called Clark out to the government(you can't say he never had a doctor's visit or anything even if it wasn't shown). They look human, sound human, can speak Earth languages, eat Earth food. Probably have their organs in the exact same place, etc... If all that is the same, why would their brain be anymore resistant to TP than a normal person?

Originally posted by KingD19
Kryptonians are aliens true, but their physiology is so similar that nothing strange ever called Clark out to the government(you can't say he never had a doctor's visit or anything even if it wasn't shown). They look human, sound human, can speak Earth languages, eat Earth food. Probably have their organs in the exact same place, etc... If all that is the same, why would their brain be anymore resistant to TP than a normal person?

We actually can't say if he visited a doctor or not because it would be likely that the Kents would want to keep him away from doctors to hide his origin. But that's neither here nor there. The point is there is nothing that points to Xavier being able to affect aliens. That alone should keep it from being used in a vs match.

Scarlet Witch and the Mind Stone otth are viable tactics

Originally posted by juggerman
You claim it will work on an alien. Burden is on you that it will


No, you're claiming that somehow being an alien protects him from TP, that means the burden is on you.

Originally posted by Silent Master
No, you're claiming that somehow being an alien protects him from TP, that means the burden is on you.

My initial question was in regards to your claim as well as the claims of others regarding the use of TP against the Kryptonian. All I asked you was if you had proof it would work in such a situation. Then you tried to flip it on me. You claim it will work on a Kryptonian, burden is on you. Hell I don't even need an actual Kryptonian as evidence. Any non earthling will suffice

Exactly, your questing Prof X's ability to effect Superman with his TP, that means the burden is on you to prove that being an alien somehow renders him resistant/immune to Prof X's TP.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Exactly, your questing Prof X's ability to effect Superman with his TP, that means the burden is on you to prove that being an alien somehow renders him resistant/immune to Prof X's TP.

You are claiming it does affect aliens. Burden is on you to back your claim

Originally posted by juggerman
You are claiming it does affect aliens. Burden is on you to back your claim

We have proven that Prof X has TP and that Superman has zero feats of TP resistance, those are the only burdens we have.

You are the one claiming that Superman being an alien magically makes him immune/resistant to Prof X's TP, so again that makes the burden yours.

Scarlet Witch's mental games worked on Thor, who is an alien. And she could also read the thoughts of a robot. Her mental manipulation is far less than Xavier as well.

Since TP and mental manipulation was shown working on an alien, then we have proof it works on Superman. Unless you want to say "there's no evidence it will work since he's a different type of alien"

Originally posted by Silent Master
We have proven that Prof X has TP and that Superman has zero feats of TP resistance, those are the only burdens we have.

You are the one claiming that Superman being an alien magically makes him immune/resistant to Prof X's TP, so again that makes the burden yours.

You are claiming Xavier can affect any mind as long as that mind has no resistance feats. This is a fallacy unless you can prove it. All he has done was affect human/mutant minds. He's even had difficulty with some. To assume all minds including alien are susceptible without proof is silly. You clearly have none and are hoping to hide that by pretending I'm claiming Superman has an immunity. Straw manning won't work. Still waiting on you to back your claim that X can TP aliens

Originally posted by KingD19
Scarlet Witch's mental games worked on Thor, who is an alien. And she could also read the thoughts of a robot. Her mental manipulation is far less than Xavier as well.

Since TP and mental manipulation was shown working on an alien, then we have proof it works on Superman. Unless you want to say "there's no evidence it will work since he's a different type of alien"

Scarlet Witch's power is not in question. I have no doubt she can affect Superman. Xavier is not Scarlet Witch

Originally posted by juggerman
You are claiming Xavier can affect any mind as long as that mind has no resistance feats. This is a fallacy unless you can prove it. All he has done was affect human/mutant minds. He's even had difficulty with some. To assume all minds including alien are susceptible without proof is silly. You clearly have none and are hoping to hide that by pretending I'm claiming Superman has an immunity. Straw manning won't work. Still waiting on you to back your claim that X can TP aliens

How is it a fallacy to say that someone with no TP resistance feats is vulnerable to TP?

Jeeze can we stop focusing on simply Xavier?

Xavier, Phoenix, Emma Frost, Scarlet Witch, that dream guy in a wheel chair - and everyone else on the team who has psychic powers will all be directing a mental assault at Superman.

Do you really think Superman can withstand an assault like that just because he's "alien"?

That's not even considering that he'll be heavily taxed by trying to physically fight off every other super powered being from the team and so won't be able to keep his mental defenses up (even if he had them).

Bottom line is, Superman loses this match one way or another.