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Can Whis override Guldo's time stop.

Pass or Fail

Yeah. Even if he can't, Guldo can't hurt Whis.

Whis could turn back time and then kill Namek

Whis does not exist outside of time. He would freeze like anyone else

Whis would speed through time stop. Anyone thinking time stop would work on powerful Z fighters are crazy.

Originally posted by carver9
Whis would speed through time stop. Anyone thinking time stop would work on powerful Z fighters are crazy.

Speeding thru it is impossible. Time is stopped. Unless one of them can operate outside of time they get stopped too.

You're acting as if they would even know it happened. Time would pass normally for them as if nothing happened. How can they speed thru that?

If there are no actual limits to the move it is op as fu*k. Hell if he could hold his breath for a longer period of time he would be unstoppable.

He would be unstoppable if he could actually do something other than run away while his opponent was frozen.

The whole being defenseless thing. If BSSG Goku can be taken out by a character on Zarbon's level. I think Guldo could do the same no?

Originally posted by bbrem123
The whole being defenseless thing. If BSSG Goku can be taken out by a character on Zarbon's level. I think Guldo could do the same no?

No.

1. Guldo is below Zarbon level. He only made it on the team because of his unique ability
2. The opponent wouldn't be defenseless. Goku actively lowered his defenses and presumably his ki too. If he were froze, his ki would still be just as high as it was while unfrozen

Originally posted by carver9
Whis would speed through time stop. Anyone thinking time stop would work on powerful Z fighters are crazy. What an idiot, lol.

Originally posted by juggerman
No.

1. Guldo is below Zarbon level. He only made it on the team because of his unique ability
2. The opponent wouldn't be defenseless. Goku actively lowered his defenses and presumably his ki too. If he were froze, his ki would still be just as high as it was while unfrozen Ah good point.

Originally posted by carver9
Whis would speed through time stop. Anyone thinking time stop would work on powerful Z fighters are crazy.

This is by far the best post ever made on the forum

Originally posted by juggerman
Speeding thru it is impossible. Time is stopped. Unless one of them can operate outside of time they get stopped too.

You're acting as if they would even know it happened. Time would pass normally for them as if nothing happened. How can they speed thru that?

Remember when Spectrum walked through time stop because it didn't affect her due to being a light speed character? Whis is MUCH faster than light.

So Whis just powers through?

Whis would definitely be frozen in time for however long Guldo could hold his breath. However, Guldo certainly wouldn't be able to cause Whis any damage whatsoever.

95% of the time it should work without a problem. Sort of a no limits fallacy move like that.

The real question is would it work as Whis is traveling back in time. At that point things get a little complicated.

My answer: if Whis is immune to time stop, it isn't due to speed. There is an argument that Whis operates outside the realm of time because he has some measure of control over it, but there's no objective evidence he would be immune.

Originally posted by carver9
Remember when Spectrum walked through time stop because it didn't affect her due to being a light speed character? Whis is MUCH faster than light.

You're actually right. Time would stop anyway, when moving at that speed. Time would stop around you, but of course, not for you, and only you. You would behave normally while time would be frozen, you would essentially exist outside of time since light is the universal speed limit. Moving outside that limit puts you outside of time (relative to the time of those around you who are not moving at the same speeds as you).

Time of any sort would never have any affect on you. Hence, if you left the Earth at a speed FTL, when you returned to Earth, many years would have passed and you would not have aged a milisecond. At those speeds, time can not stop you. Nothing the known universe could generate would stop you.

It's also worth mentioning that at FTL speeds, even events like the Big Bang would be an infinitely inferior force in terms of anything that could stop your progress. From the beginning of time, through time itself, nothing can stop you. This is of course, based on what we know now. Things could change, we may discover something else.

Originally posted by NemeBro
My answer: if Whis is immune to time stop, it isn't due to speed. There is an argument that Whis operates outside the realm of time because he has some measure of control over it, but there's no objective evidence he would be immune.

If someone is FTL, time stop wouldn't be an issue...at all, and Whis is MUCH FTL.

Originally posted by carver9
If someone is FTL, time stop wouldn't be an issue...at all, and Whis is MUCH FTL.

1. That is your theory.
2. They would need to be already moving FTL when timestop is activated if we go by your theory.

Originally posted by Placidity
1. That is your theory.
2. They would need to be already moving FTL when timestop is activated if we go by your theory.

Not my theory bro. Time is nothing to someone that moves at those levels. FTL speeds isn't something that needs to be activated. It is always there.

You would need to be moving at FTL in order to be invincible to time related issues. If you are not moving at speeds FTL, you will be subject to the laws regarding time and space, even if your are capable of bypassing them.

If a time stop were to occur, you would need to be already beyond time to avoid it. The funny thing is, if you moved away from your opponent at vastly FTL speeds, and returned to them, 10 or so minutes later, they may would have already died of old age by the time you returned.

It should be noted that when moving at FTL, time is not slowed down, time simply is not happening, for you anyway. e.

Originally posted by carver9
Not my theory bro. Time is nothing to someone that moves at those levels. FTL speeds isn't something that needs to be activated. It is always there.

1. If it is not just your theory, show me the definitive scientific proof.

2. I never said anything about "activating". An object is either moving at FTL speed when time is stopped, or it isn't.

If it isn't, it needs to accelerate to FTL speed in order to be unaffected by the timestop (according to this theory). But of course if time is stopped and it is not already at FTL speed, then it cannot accelerate to FTL speed. This is not hard to understand.

Lol.

I like that people are arguing RW physics and whatnot, in a mythos that features talking animals, magical dragons that can grant any wishes, people who can shoot bolts of energy from their hands, etc. etc.

People use physics and other fields of mathematics to gauge and calculate feats, you can't turn off the tools you use to make imaginary fights and its consequences to suit an imaginary outcome you favor. Not unless there is a universal agreement on when everyone should stop using the truth.

Honestly, what is the point of bringing up FTL if it just means very fast and not actually faster than light? Moving outside of time is its main feature.

Using "FTL" as a means to quantify the speed at which they are moving is one thing. Arguing that the Theory of Relativity applies to said characters is another animal entirely. This is fiction.

Heck, the fact that characters/objects with mass can reach, and even exceed c, already shatters RW physics as we know it... So stop acting like they are still bound by these parameters.

The thing is though, the Theory of Relativity isn't a separate thing. It is an an inextricable part of that thing.

And stop what? I am not arguing that physics should always apply, I'm not sure where you got that from. Since Whis is a fictional character, I am certain lesser physics breaking repercussions might not apply to him, but at the same time, Whis is also a God-like being.

Your suspense of all meaningful logic in all cases is ridiculous and plagues these corners of the internet. If Whis were fighting a peer of his caliber, I could understand the lapse in logic, but here, he's fighting Guldo. Both characters can ignore the same repercussions for the same powers based on what? Why is Guldo able to trap an FTL object in a time stop? Why? If you're going to simply pretend truth and logic aren't a thing, at least do so in the bounds of reason. This is not reasonable, it's Guldo VS Whis.

Originally posted by U need Leonard
The thing is though, the Theory of Relativity isn't a separate thing. It is an an inextricable part of that thing. This is fiction, so no, it doesn't have to be this way.

You're having a hard time grasping this concept, it seems.

Originally posted by U need Leonard
Your suspense of all meaningful logic in all cases is ridiculous and plagues these corners of the internet. If Whis were fighting a peer of his caliber, I could understand the lapse in logic, but here, he's fighting Guldo. Both characters can ignore the same repercussions for the same powers based on what? Why is Guldo able to trap an FTL object in a time stop? Why? RW physics clearly do not apply to these characters--this is evident by the simple fact that Whis(and Beerus) can move at speeds well above c under their own power. Whis can also rewind time(which RW physics certainly do not account for), etc. etc. etc.

The burden of proof falls entirely on you to prove why relativity/physics do apply to these fictional beings.

Originally posted by carver9
Remember when Spectrum walked through time stop because it didn't affect her due to being a light speed character?

No

Originally posted by carver9
Whis is MUCH faster than light.

I was going to say something like this but Placidity already did such a fine job:

Originally posted by Placidity
An object is either moving at FTL speed when time is stopped, or it isn't.

If it isn't, it needs to accelerate to FTL speed in order to be unaffected by the timestop (according to this theory). But of course if time is stopped and it is not already at FTL speed, then it cannot accelerate to FTL speed. This is not hard to understand.

Originally posted by Galan007
This is fiction, so no, it doesn't have to be this way.

Based on what? That seems like a thing that's better left to the OP, not you.


Originally posted by Galan007
RW physics clearly do not apply to these characters--this is evident by the simple fact that Whis(and Beerus) can move at speeds well above c under their own power. Whis can also rewind time(which RW physics certainly do not account for), etc. etc. etc.

Whis and Beerus are Gods and God-like in their own universe, the omission of all logic is reasonable.

Originally posted by Galan007
The burden of proof falls entirely on you to prove why relativity/physics do apply to these fictional beings.

Guldo stood on a rock and it broke from his weight, some degree of our universal laws applies to Guldo. There is no 'Reason' in Guldo's time stop being powerful enough to impede a God-like being while moving at FTL speeds. I'm not saying that RL should always be applied to fictional fights, I'm just saying to suspend logic with some degree rationale. To break physics in the way you described requires some showing of tremendous power, even within DB.

Originally posted by U need Leonard
Guldo stood on a rock and it broke from his weight, some degree of our universal laws applies to Guldo. This is not relativity, lol.

The concept that time would not apply to Whis while he is traveling FTL is dependent on relativity being applicable to him... Which is silly when we consider that he already shatters relativity. ie. Whis has mass. Einstein's theory forbids an object with mass from reaching/exceeding c. Despite this, Whis(and Beerus) can still travel FTL. Where is this relativity that people are clinging to? Or are you only selecting certain parts of the theory that fit best with your arguments?

I guess my point is that trying to confine fictional characters to a Theory they clearly supersede is... Silly, to say the least.

Originally posted by U need Leonard
You are thinking of physics as some separate thing that never occurs in fiction, You are wrong, it occurs all the time...it's how stuff happens. I never said physics does not occur in fiction. I am simply commenting on the physics being used in this particular thread as a means of limiting Guldo's ability. It's nonsense, really.

It cannot be proven one way or the other, yet you are acting like it is incontrovertible fact "cuz real world says so." Again, it's just silly. IMO.

Originally posted by Galan007
This is not relativity, lol. You do understand that all laws coincide, with relativity right? You can't have one without the other. If you are abiding by the laws of gravity and motion, you are also doing the same for relativity.

Again, it's not a separate thing. You have to understand this.

Originally posted by Galan007
The concept that time would not apply to Whis while he is traveling FTL is dependent on relativity being applicable to him... Which is silly when we consider that relativity already does not apply to him. ie. Whis has mass. Einstein's theory forbids an object with mass from reaching/exceeding c. Despite this, Whis(and Beerus) can still travel FTL. Where is this relativity that people are clinging to? Or are you only selecting certain parts of the theory that fit best with your arguments?

I guess my point is that trying to confine fictional characters to a Theory they clearly supersede is... Silly, to say the least.

Whis is a very powerful God-like entity with God-like powers. Guldo is not. Use 'some' reason



Originally posted by Galan007
I never said physics does not occur in fiction. I am simply commenting on the physics being used in this particular thread as a means of limiting Guldo. It's nonsense, really.

It is a 'Fact' that moving at FTL speeds, which Whis can do, would side step anything dealing in time. I'm not limiting Guldo, I'm simply stating Whis is far more powerful than anything Guldo can do.

Originally posted by Galan007
It cannot be proven one way or the other, yet you are acting like it is incontrovertible fact... "Cuz real world says so." Again, it's just silly.

It's not "silly" to say that moving at FTL speeds puts the person at a place beyond time's reach, because it's true. And Whis can do it because he is very powerful. It's not silly, it's actually very cool. Time tricks would not work on a Whis in motion.

Originally posted by U need Leonard
You do understand that all laws coincide, with relativity right? You can't have one without the other. If you are abiding by the laws of gravity and motion, you are also doing the same for relativity. Switching the goalposts, eh? Nice.

Anyway, a rock breaking because Guldo was standing on it =/= the theory of relativity as described in this thread, lol.

Originally posted by U need Leonard
Again, it's not a separate thing. You have to understand this. I don't think you actually understand what is being argued here. That's likely why you keep throwing around logical fallacies.

Originally posted by U need Leonard
Whis is a very powerful God-like entity with God-like powers. Guldo is not. Use 'some' reason You completely dodged this portion of my post... Which was probably a good idea, because it entirely defeated your line of reasoning.

Anywho, you don't think Guldo's ability to stop time is a 'God-like power'..? Hmm, interesting.

Originally posted by U need Leonard
Time tricks would not work on a Whis in motion. Based on what in-universe evidence?

Wait, Galan, are you saying time stop would or would not work on Whis (if he is not moving at FTL speed)?

If he's just standing there, time-stop should undoubtedly work.

If Whis were moving FTL, there's no way to know for certain what would happen. Since Whis/Guldo clearly do not fall under the umbrella of relativity, it might work or it might not.

Um, aren't we all in agreement then (except for Carter)? I don't even follow the arguments.

I'm in total agreement with the rabid fanboy carver, Whis stomps.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I'm in total agreement with the rabid fanboy carver, Whis stomps.

But TI, wouldn't you agreeing timing is everything, and therefore Guldo wins?

Originally posted by Placidity
Um, aren't we all in agreement then (except for Carter)? I don't even follow the arguments. I was just pointing out the ridiculousness in using RW physics/theories/laws as a means of 'limiting' fictional characters who clearly do not abide by them.

Originally posted by Galan007
I was just pointing out the ridiculousness in using RW physics/theories/laws as a means of 'limiting' fictional characters who clearly do not abide by them.

Not really, I would say its the default in the absence of any working theory/framework provided by the character's universe.

Otherwise, anyone can just say whatever they wanted to...

For example, Carter asserts that someone who can travel FTL would be unaffected by time stop. But is this based on past feats or something explained in DBZ? No... so on what basis can one claim it as an undeniable fact as he does?

Defaulting to logic and real world physics is the only reasonable thing to do in such a scenario.

If we were talking about Marvel/DC, there would most likely many indirect feats that would lend credit to such theories. But nothing in DB as far as I know.

As evident by their feats, these characters do not abide by some of the RW theories(namely relativity) you are trying to confine them to. Therefore, said theories are inapplicable to them.

I'm not saying physics across the board is inapplicable in DB, mind you.

Originally posted by Galan007
As evident by their feats, these characters do not abide by some of the RW theories(namely relativity) you are trying to confine them to. Therefore, said theories are inapplicable to them.

I'm not saying physics across the board is inapplicable in DB, mind you.

Ok, further to my point though is that even RW physics has nothing definitive to say about it, so how can Carter claim anything at all?

I wasn't using RW physics to limit Whis, Carter was the one claiming FTL speeds means Whis would be unaffected.

So two questions:

1. Is this based on a working DB theory/feats? No.

2. The alternative then, is that it MUST then be based on RW physics in order to be claimed as a fact. And is it true in RW physics? No.

So either way you cut it, Carter has no grounds to stand on his assertions. I even began by qualifying that assuming his theory works (i.e I'm not hung up on dismissing it solely because it doesn't stand up to RW)... but this was not enough for him, he claimed once again its not a theory, but fact.

^ Which is exactly what I said on the previous page.

Originally posted by Galan007
If he's just standing there, time-stop should undoubtedly work.

If Whis were moving FTL, there's no way to know for certain what would happen. Since Whis/Guldo clearly do not fall under the umbrella of relativity, it might work or it might not.

This is the thing I'm getting at here, The theory applies to both characters, but only one of the characters can ignore it. Whis can, because he has been shown to be powerful enough to do so and does so casually. I can not imagine how much he would break the theory if he had to run for his life. The theory of relativity is linked to all the rest of physics (mostly), so if we are to ignore it by default, I can just ignore everything and every feat unless specified by the op.

If we ignore this, it waters down the ability to travel at FTL speeds. Some RL logic you just can't do without.

I would like to clarify, again that Whis would have to be in FTL motion at the start of the time stop in order to avoid it. He'd also have to remain in FTL motion. If he stopped or slowed down to a speed bellow FTL, he would reenter time and would fall victim.

Speculation aside, this is all we can be certain of:

Originally posted by Galan007
If he's just standing there, time-stop should undoubtedly work.

If Whis were moving FTL, there's no way to know for certain what would happen. Since Whis/Guldo clearly do not fall under the umbrella of relativity, it might work or it might not.

Or maybe it wouldn't work at all, because Whis is a god.

That is true, he is actually above the Gods.

Whis ftw.

^You see? Even time admits that Whis is unrestricted by forces as puny as time.

Shut up

Whis said his body is prepared for ANY attack. Nothing can get through because he defense is never down and his runs off self remote.

Stopping time isn't an attack, it's an ability. Whis isn't omniscient. He's not going to be like, Oh know Guildo is about to stop breathing I should reverse time....

Whis already knows about the attack and can will just kill him.

First off, you asked in OP if Whis can override it.. Which is can't. Second why or how would Whis even know about Guildo? He's nothing to even show up on the radar of them.

Whis knows everything. This is made clear in BOG. He cant look back in time and watch any past event.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Whis knows everything. This is made clear in BOG. He cant look back in time and watch any past event.

*Can look back in time.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Whis knows everything. Whis didn't know the 4-armed alien he encountered on the feral planet in Episode 2 was capable of transforming, and went on to note that he must not have done enough 'research' prior to traveling there.

Clearly he does not know all.

Even some people have a bad day. Clearly he knows pretty much everything.

Hmm I had forgotten that Super Boo/SSJ3 Gotenks have technically also broken the laws of space and time through sheer ki alone and all they did was yell at it. Not sure if this matters in this thread but it could mean that sufficient power can make one an exception to the laws of the universe.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Hmm I had forgotten that Super Boo/SSJ3 Gotenks have technically also broken the laws of space and time through sheer ki alone and all they did was yell at it. Not sure if this matters in this thread but it could mean that sufficient power can make one an exception to the laws of the universe. That plays on the concept that the dimensions are only separated by differing vibrational frequencies.

But yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if Whis were able to walk through Guldo's time-stop--but as of now, we just don't have a legitimate reason to assume he'd be immune.

It seems Whis is like just beyond reason and calculable power besides saying he is 15. This is only what the 10th Episode and two movies and he's reversed time, One shotted Beerus and can fly through space faster then anyone there is.