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Standard duel

Match takes place in front of Yoda and the Jedi council

Dooku.

He was the Temple's "strongest student" and "most learned in the ways of the Force."

Plus physically he must be younger and stronger than he was in ROTS.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Dooku.

He was the Temple's "strongest student" and "most learned in the ways of the Force."

Plus physically he must be younger and stronger than he was in ROTS.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Dooku.

He was the Temple's "strongest student" and "most learned in the ways of the Force."

Plus physically he must be younger and stronger than he was in ROTS.

I'd say Dooku, as a jedi whilst he wouldn't have his sith powers he was still an incredible duelist and was considered to be one of the most gifted jedi of his day plus he wouldn't be as weak physically when he was younger.

I'd go with Kenobi. Fighting evenly with Maul, Vader, etc. is just better than some accolades and conjecture on Jedi Dooku's combative level.

Dooku takes a dookie on Kenobi's corpse.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
So you agree youth does matter.

Kenobi

makashi > soresu

This could probably go both ways tbh.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you agree youth does matter.

No as Sidious and Yoda re some of the oldest characters and yet they are like the top 2 and Dooku is older than Sidious and can still beat so many people so no. Youth is at best an edge, but one that can be easily counteracted by experience.

Originally posted by redpill
makashi > soresu

Don't ever use that logic ever again.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
No as Sidious and Yoda re some of the oldest characters and yet they are like the top 2 and Dooku is older than Sidious and can still beat so many people so no. Youth is at best an edge, but one that can be easily counteracted by experience. Who is to say Yoda and Sidious weren't better years ago ?

Well you agree it's an advantage and experience doesn't always have to do with a greater age just more combat.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Who is to say Yoda and Sidious weren't better years ago ?

Well you agree it's an advantage and experience doesn't always have to do with a greater age just more combat.

Sidious defintily wasn't. He gain d power as he got older. His ROTJ self is better than ROTS and TPM.

With greater age you tend to while not always tend to have more experience. I would take experience over youth any day however.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Sidious defintily wasn't. He gain d power as he got older. His ROTJ self is better than ROTS and TPM.

With greater age you tend to while not always tend to have more experience. I would take experience over youth any day however. He was already older though.

Ask any bball great to compare their mid thirties to their late twenties. What's better ?

He's got a point, there. Just ask Kobe.

http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/kobe-finger-wag-kobe-bryant-gifs.gif

bball players don't get increasingly greater access to a mystical energy field as they get more experience, so that's not exactly a good comparison

You sure about that?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
bball players don't get increasingly greater access to a mystical energy field as they get more experience, so that's not exactly a good comparison Do tell.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He was already older though.

Ask any bball great to compare their mid thirties to their late twenties. What's better ?

Yes and he only got more powerful as he got older. He started in TPM then ROTS then ROTJ. He got more powerful with each one.

Ask any force user which is what this si compared to. Also they would ahve diffenent answers because with the experience you can learn how to cope with the age disparity.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Yes and he only got more powerful as he got older. He started in TPM then ROTS then ROTJ. He got more powerful with each one.

Ask any force user which is what this si compared to. Also they would ahve diffenent answers because with the experience you can learn how to cope with the age disparity. Prove he got more powerful with each one.


Their bodies get weaker as the age and especially in their elder years thus relying more on the force than ever.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I suspect your tldr; isn't canon. Sigh.

I believe the complete encyclopedia is canon if I'm not mistaken and maybe the dark side source book but Darth Plagueis no it isn't as far as I'm aware, but why does it matter. It's an EU forum and most of TPM Sidious is EU since we don't see what he is capable of.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I believe the complete encyclopedia is canon if I'm not mistaken and maybe the dark side source book but Darth Plagueis no it isn't as far as I'm aware, but why does it matter. It's an EU forum and most of TPM Sidious is EU since we don't see what he is capable of. I only argue canon and by what we see.

Well Legends or Disney, Sidious still onehands a few of Savage's strikes, so... not sure what physical weakness you think you can prove here

That's with the force bolstering his physicals, without the force he is a weak old man.

This matters because it doesn't.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Well Legends or Disney, Sidious still onehands a few of Savage's strikes, so... not sure what physical weakness you think you can prove here Sidious isn't as physically powerful as Savage just more powerful in the force.

Originally posted by Trocity
This matters because it doesn't.
LOL best explanation ever XD

Originally posted by quanchi112
Sidious isn't as physically powerful as Savage just more powerful in the force.
Which he can easily use to empower himself physically with the force to match/supersede Savage's physical strength

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Which he can easily use to empower himself physically with the force to match/supersede Savage's physical strength No, I don't think so. He'd use his skill or his powers he couldn't out slug Savage.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, I don't think so. He'd use his skill or his powers he couldn't out slug Savage.

Qanch Sidious parried a power blow by Savage by simply raising his blades behind his back. He didn't even look.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Don't ever use that logic ever again.

By logic that he's used: Cad Bane > Quinlan Vos > Dooku

Originally posted by quanchi112
I only argue canon and by what we see.

Well nothin we can do about that. Just I don't get why you're here if we discuss EU and canon material.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Qanch Sidious parried a power blow by Savage by simply raising his blades behind his back. He didn't even look. He was aware of where the next attack was coming so he was prepared. He's so overconfident he lowers his light sabers and dodges Opress' lightsabers with his body.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Well nothin we can do about that. Just I don't get why you're here if we discuss EU and canon material. Default rules. Don't argue legends argue with facts to support your beliefs.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He was aware of where the next attack was coming so he was prepared. He's so overconfident he lowers his light sabers and dodges Opress' lightsabers with his body.
How can you be overconfident when you win, and easily at that? That by definition is not overconfident.

He's upset because Khan ran from Spock in their fight.

Originally posted by Trocity
He's upset because Khan ran from Spock in their fight. Khan was not armed but Spock was. Why would you run at someone armed while you're not ? Context.

Spock loses his weapon at the beginning of the sequence. Khan runs after he realizes Spock is more than a match for him.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
How can you be overconfident when you win, and easily at that? That by definition is not overconfident. He was sloppy.

Except he wasn't.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Except he wasn't. He was sloppy and overconfident. He didn't lose but the guy is quite arrogant.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Default rules. Don't argue legends argue with facts to support your beliefs.

Legends is the proof as well.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Legends is the proof as well. Not canon.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Not canon.

Not canon and not evidence are two separate things. Here legends count as you see all the legends threads. Also this is Dookumas a Jedi and we don't have any real feats for him, just Yoda saying powerful you have become Dooku and that was a Sith and that Yoda was his master. All very vague and doesn't lead to enough, so we use EU to help his feats since that's all we have mostly.

Originally posted by Trocity
Spock loses his weapon at the beginning of the sequence. Khan runs after he realizes Spock is more than a match for him. No, he knows that the entire enterprise crew is against him aboard their ship. He is about to crush Spock's skull and his backup and a phaser arrives. Quit ignoring the scene, common sense, and the context of the scene.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Not canon and not evidence are two separate things. Here legends count as you see all the legends threads. Also this is Dookumas a Jedi and we don't have any real feats for him, just Yoda saying powerful you have become Dooku and that was a Sith and that Yoda was his master. All very vague and doesn't lead to enough, so we use EU to help his feats since that's all we have mostly. Default rules and continuity matter.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, he knows that the entire enterprise crew is against him aboard their ship. He is about to crush Spock's skull and his backup and a phaser arrives. Quit ignoring the scene, common sense, and the context of the scene.

Khan kicks Spock's gun away right at the start of the sequence when he is hanging onto the edge of one of those red ships they're on. Khan then tosses him and once Spock regains his feet, he dodges a slow punch from Khan and starts kicking his ass, bringing him to his knees with a nerve pinch. Khan tries to crush his head, gets nerve pinched again, knees Spock and runs away.

Spock was more than a match for Khan.

Dooku.

Originally posted by Trocity
Khan kicks Spock's gun away right at the start of the sequence when he is hanging onto the edge of one of those red ships they're on. Khan then tosses him and once Spock regains his feet, he dodges a slow punch from Khan and starts kicking his ass, bringing him to his knees with a nerve pinch. Khan tries to crush his head, gets nerve pinched again, knees Spock and runs away.

Spock was more than a match for Khan. Khan just crash landed. Spock was in tip top shape and had Kirk just died rage. Khan knew Spock was beamed down with the aid of the enterprise crew. He was right to run as he wasn't just against one guy in a fair fight. They fought and Khan was crushing his skull when Uhura beamed on. In hand to hand Khan won. With guns earlier Khan disarmed Spock easily. Khan was on another level.

Khan only had the upper hand during the fight when Spock was dangling off the edge of the ships. Spock got back to his feet on the first one and proceeded to throw Khan a beat down. Khan only gains the upper hand again because he lands on the second ship feet first whereas Spock rolls off and grabs the edge again.

Khan does not allow him to regain his feet this time because he knows Spock will bring him to his knees again. Khan would have lost on a flat terrain.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He was sloppy and overconfident. He didn't lose but the guy is quite arrogant.
Arrogance and overconfidence aren't the same thing. "Sloppy" isn't a synonym either.

Originally posted by Trocity
Khan only had the upper hand during the fight when Spock was dangling off the edge of the ships. Spock got back to his feet on the first one and proceeded to throw Khan a beat down. Khan only gains the upper hand again because he lands on the second ship feet first whereas Spock rolls off and grabs the edge again.

Khan does not allow him to regain his feet this time because he knows Spock will bring him to his knees again. Khan would have lost on a flat terrain. Khan had the upper hand on the first ship. He kneed Spock into the ground and wasn't on his backside. Spock was but he understood that he just wasn't up against Spock and was later proven to be correct.

Speculative nonsense. Khan had the upper hand the entire time and resisted the nerve pinch despite the crash landing. Also speculative as Khan was able to fight through anything Spock throes at him when the fights were one on one. Use evidence to support your asinine position not speculative, theoretical, unprovable nonsense.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Default rules and continuity matter.

Well this is a legends forum so default is legends actaully, but we won't get into that. Here it's about legends and canon, why can't they go together? Legends shows the better feats and in some cases is actually in line with the movies and TCW.

Why do you insist on arguing with Quan using Legends feats when he doesn't accept them?

You could easily prove your point using the Disney continuity feats that still shit on Khan's, make Sheev and force users still look impressive and... wait... he won't listen to those either...

Why do you insist on getting into page long debates with him to begin with?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Why do you insist on getting into page long debates with him to begin with?
Tbh, he can be entertaining sometimes. I wouldn't go longer than a page or two back and forth with him though. Gets tedious.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Arrogance and overconfidence aren't the same thing. "Sloppy" isn't a synonym either. Only separated from a few degrees IMO. I never said it was but he was sloppy hence why he was kicked.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Well this is a legends forum so default is legends actaully, but we won't get into that. Here it's about legends and canon, why can't they go together? Legends shows the better feats and in some cases is actually in line with the movies and TCW. One counts one doesn't. That's all there is to it. Honestly.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Why do you insist on arguing with Quan using Legends feats when he doesn't accept them?

You could easily prove your point using the Disney continuity feats that still shit on Khan's, make Sheev and force users still look impressive and... wait... he won't listen to those either...

Why do you insist on getting into page long debates with him to begin with? When have I ever refused to accept a canon feat ? There's a difference between accepting your perception aka over exaggeration of a feat and the fact itself.

Originally posted by quanchi112
One counts one doesn't. That's all there is to it. Honestly.

To you you mean. Here everything counts, canon and legends. To you maybe not. Well your preference nothin anyone can do about it.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
To you you mean. Here everything counts, canon and legends. To you maybe not. Well your preference nothin anyone can do about it. Default rules. Disney decides what counts not you. They haven't been back and forth on the matter either.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Default rules. Disney decides what counts not you. They haven't been back and forth on the matter either.

Default rules in a legends thread is legends. Actaully they don't, the thread masters do.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Default rules in a legends thread is legends. Actaully they don't, the thread masters do. Default rules. Read them.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Default rules. Read them.

Forum you're in look at that.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Forum you're in look at that. Reread the rules.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Reread the rules.

Look at the forum you're in. Look at the thread. This is an EU side of a character. There are no canon feats for Jedi Dooku.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Look at the forum you're in. Look at the thread. This is an EU side of a character. There are no canon feats for Jedi Dooku. Again I only debate Canon feats. Take that up with some other eu fan.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Again I only debate Canon feats. Take that up with some other eu fan.

Then you,can't debate Jedi Dooku.

If you read the Rots novel, Kenobi has gotten better as a duelist, a lil better than Dooku who was getting tired (to be fair to him). Dooku advantage was his force abilities and droids to back him up.

Originally posted by joesha28
If you read the Rots novel, Kenobi has gotten better as a duelist, a lil better than Dooku who was getting tired (to be fair to him). Dooku advantage was his force abilities and droids to back him up.
Say what? Even in that Stover's shitnovel Dooku bested Kenobi with a kick. He was better duelist, better fighter and far superior Force user. In almost every single source, besides one stupid game.

Dooku comfortable.

Btw, it would be great to see a stroy that would take place befote TPM, and with Jeremy Irons as younger Count Dooku.

Canonically that's nonsense though. Dooku absolutely crushes Kenobi physically in Season 6 of TCWs even with Anakin as back up.

Who cares. Dooku was already exhausted at that point. So Kenobi could fight an exhausted old man on equal terms in dueling ability. And yeah useing droids was an aweful cheat. Sad, that Kenobi had an assist from Skywalker, who made Dooku exhausted by himself. Kenobi was not more, then a discraction all the time.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Canonically that's nonsense though. Dooku absolutely crushes Kenobi physically in Season 6 of TCWs even with Anakin as back up.

Vos goes from getting stomped to beat Dooku within a single book and no one bats an eye.
Kenobi improves from TCW Season 6 to RotS which is a whole year and everyone loses their minds.

SW community double standards are amazing.

Well, does it change anything? In the movie Kenobi wasn't much of a factor, "Risne and Fall of DV" (nearly fully consistent with movie) confirms that. In Stover's shitnovel Kenobi was barely equal to exhausted Dooku in terms of dueling, and still was physcically stomped. Dooku had assistance from two droids while Kenobi had Anakin's assistance. Sounds nearly fair.

And you know what is the worst double standard that is using on that site by many? They're using parts of shitnovel to prove that Kenobi was equal duelist to Dooku, and then they're using part of the movie to prove that Dooku was unable to beat Kenobi by sabers/physical attacks.
That's pathetic. Kenobi will never beat Dooku, until "Rebels" will made his post-ROTS version stronger then his ROTS version.

Wow, whem did Kenobi shit in your coffee?

Yeye, you're fine.

Anyway, I like Kenobi. I just don't like his fanboys, that's all.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Then you,can't debate Jedi Dooku. Based off implications I definitely can.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Based off implications I definitely can.

No you can't there aren't any implications. All you have is that Yoda was his master and that he has grown more powerful. Al, of which are vague aren't implications to his power. It's called legends and deal with that.