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They fight on an indestructible planet.

This is Goku from the Saiyan Saga.

Saitama rekts DBZ

His striking speed/strength would make anything Goku has look like Childs play.

Wrong again, shit for brains.

Physically One Punch Man is above SSJ4 Goku. If goku makes it physical he loses badly, if he keeps on flying, dodging and blasting he wins.

ssj4 goku is not canon so that make no difference

He is just trolling. Who do you think win Brem.

Saitama

It's pretty sad that Brem and Time are the only two making sense here.

SSJ2 tier characters like SSJ2 Goku and Majin Vegeta during the Buu saga tossed around and slapped away SOLAR SYSTEM BUSTING+ attacks. Making their striking power the equivalent to over 10 octillion megatons, or 10 decillion tons.

Saitama's best feat is striking with force capable of destroying the surface of a planet, which is around 1.5 million megatons.

The two aren't even remotely comparable.

Originally posted by bbrem123
ssj4 goku is not canon so that make no difference

Broly is not canon a lot chars are not to the main series, yet we use them in vs threads.

Goku just from the saiyan saga would stand absolutely 0 chance and this would be spite so I just took the most powerful version of Goku we saw to date, SSJ4 Goku instead. Who was physically a monster, yet only city level, still magnitued above Gokus best from the canon series.

Saitaman is physically above him, any version of Goku. Saitaman is most likely in the high Meta or low Herald tier in strength. But he has a disadvantage, he can't fly. So Goku who has access to planetbusting energy attacks just needs to evade and blast on till he wins.

This is just a reasonable and objective opinion @ Carver. Just because you don't agree or don't like it, doesn't give you the right to call it trolling. Imo your bias and overhyping is far worse trolling, yet I ignore it. Just a friendly advice.

The day Saitama loses to anyone would be the happiest day of his life.

Calling for Goku to win. Which he probably should, based on the feats of the moment..

Originally posted by carver9


He is just trolling. Who do you think win Brem. To be honest I have not read to much of One Punch Man. I actually just started reading it. From what I have read and heard so far Saitama has done nothing overly impressive compared to DBZ showings.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
It's pretty sad that Brem and Time are the only two making sense here.

SSJ2 tier characters like SSJ2 Goku and Majin Vegeta during the Buu saga tossed around and slapped away SOLAR SYSTEM BUSTING+ attacks. Making their striking power the equivalent to over 10 octillion megatons, or 10 decillion tons.

Saitama's best feat is striking with force capable of destroying the surface of a planet, which is around 1.5 million megatons.

The two aren't even remotely comparable. This is actually only Saiyan Saga Goku. Didnt even see that myself.

Originally posted by bbrem123
This is actually only Saiyan Saga Goku. Didnt even see that myself.

Ah, I didn't notice that either.

Goku still presumably wins though, given that he's still superior to a straight up planet buster, while Saitama is only superior to a surface destroyer. Planet busting is still a vastly superior feat, and Goku also has the advantage of flight, and he's a much more skilled fighter than Saitama is.

We can't simply ignore that despite their energy resistance, physical force has shown to work very well on DBZ characters. Saiyan Saga Goku for example was almost beaten to death by Oozaru Vegeta. And Saitama is far stronger than him going by feats iirc.

Originally posted by KingD19
We can't simply ignore that despite their energy resistance, physical force has shown to work very well on DBZ characters. Saiyan Saga Goku for example was almost beaten to death by Oozaru Vegeta. And Saitama is far stronger than him going by feats iirc.

Saiyan saga Goku was almost beaten to death by Oozaru Vegeta because Oozaru Vegeta had a power level of 240,000, while Goku's power level was a scant 8,000.

Yeah, there's no WAY that Vegeta beat Goku because he was 30 times more powerful than him, yeah, that'd just be silly.

Again, planet busting force is thousands of times greater than surface destruction. And the Z-fighters bat their attacks away with their bare hands. Just like how Vegeta tossed the planet+ busting kamehameha wave off of him, almost instantly.

Originally posted by KingD19
We can't simply ignore that despite their energy resistance, physical force has shown to work very well on DBZ characters. Saiyan Saga Goku for example was almost beaten to death by Oozaru Vegeta. And Saitama is far stronger than him going by feats iirc.



Yep, they are great with energy attacks and deflecting those energy attacks but lack the physical strength. Goku has to keep his distance and blast to win this fight.

Goku goes KKx3 and punches a hole in Saitama's chest.
Then, he proceeds to toss him in the Sun with a full power KKx3 Kamehameha.

Originally posted by bbrem123
To be honest I have not read to much of One Punch Man. I actually just started reading it. From what I have read and heard so far Saitama has done nothing overly impressive compared to DBZ showings.

Ask Prof to name One punch Fts that gives him the win against Goku. He doesn't know anything about the character. Nothing.

I've debated the character against him before and he can't she'd any light on what OPM has done.

Everyone in the comic versus form laughed at his comments about the man. He has said Venom can beat OPM.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
SSJ2 tier characters like SSJ2 Goku and Majin Vegeta during the Buu saga tossed around and slapped away SOLAR SYSTEM BUSTING+ attacks.

How can you prove they are Solar System busters? A solar system is larger than a planet by an order of magnitude. Not saying it's entirely out of question for that to be true, I just wondered how you came up with said calculations.

I think there's a databook entry stating that Gohan blocked a Solar System busting attacks. Though I'm not sure if that's applicable here or why its being brought up since this is supposed to be about Saiyan Saga Goku.

Originally posted by carver9
Ask Prof to name One punch Fts that gives him the win against Goku. He doesn't know anything about the character. Nothing.

I've debated the character against him before and he can't she'd any light on what OPM has done.

Everyone in the comic versus form laughed at his comments about the man. He has said Venom can beat OPM. It is because he is similar to superman. So he can never lose...

Originally posted by carver9
Ask Prof to name One punch Fts that gives him the win against Goku. He doesn't know anything about the character. Nothing.

I've debated the character against him before and he can't she'd any light on what OPM has done.

Everyone in the comic versus form laughed at his comments about the man. He has said Venom can beat OPM.



You are a bad liar and sour loser. You have never debated anything, in your entire life. You think exaggerating things and not replying to a poster showing you the flaws of your thinking is debating? Lmao
Everyone? You mean you and your split personality?

Anyway, OPM loses if he keeps his distance.

Originally posted by Bentley
How can you prove they are Solar System busters? A solar system is larger than a planet by an order of magnitude. Not saying it's entirely out of question for that to be true, I just wondered how you came up with said calculations.

During their fight, Cell states he has aquired enough power to destroy the solar system before the megablast duell. Though wenn the blast met, this should result into earth being destroyed as a side effect

What feats do you believe put Saitama above Goku?^

Originally posted by bbrem123
What feats do you believe put Saitama above Goku?^

Can't wait for him to answer this. He will use the one showing that was provided to him in the comic vs forum. Or probably the showings that was said in that thread to him already.

Here is the thread...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t617535.html

Wow^

Originally posted by bbrem123
What feats do you believe put Saitama above Goku?^

Carver, OPMs feats are his feats, you moronic attemp to restrict me to his less impressive feats won't work, stop acting like an idiot for once.

@otherguy feats like the jump from the moon, the punch against Boros, the meteor punch, all those feats were pure physical. Gokus most powerful form struggles physically with a small part of a city.

But as you noticed, i give goku the win because even if he is physically less impressive than Saitaman, his ki powers could replicate most of those feats. Goku can deflect planetbusters with his kicharge, energy is his thing to control, he can tp from the moon to earth, blast the meteor away etc. Yes OPM could kill him with a serious punch but Goku should be able to dodge and blast his way to victory.

Originally posted by Bentley
How can you prove they are Solar System busters? A solar system is larger than a planet by an order of magnitude. Not saying it's entirely out of question for that to be true, I just wondered how you came up with said calculations.

http://i2.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/416/dragon-ball-71149.jpg

It was outright stated by Cell himself in the manga.

And not to mention that Gohan was at less than half of his full SSJ2 power, and was only using one arm for his kamehameha wave, that overcame Cell's.

And that was a weakened, inexperienced SSJ2 ELEVEN YEAR OLD Gohan. SSJ2 Goku and Majin Vegeta were leaps and bounds more powerful than him by the Buu saga. And even they were nothing compared to Buu, and SSJ3 Goku.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
During their fight, Cell states he has aquired enough power to destroy the solar system before the megablast duell. Though wenn the blast met, this should result into earth being destroyed as a side effect

Shut up.

A solar system busting attack won't blow up the solar system if it's controlled.

Your opinion means less than nothing, as it is baseless, biased speculation. So stop acting like it can contradict cannon, source material.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Carver, OPMs feats are his feats, you moronic attemp to restrict me to his less impressive feats won't work, stop acting like an idiot for once.

@otherguy feats like the jump from the moon, the punch against Boros, the meteor punch, all those feats were pure physical. Gokus most powerful form struggles physically with a small part of a city.

But as you noticed, i give goku the win because even if he is physically less impressive than Saitaman, his ki powers could replicate most of those feats. Goku can deflect planetbusters with his kicharge, energy is his thing to control, he can tp from the moon to earth, blast the meteor away etc. Yes OPM could kill him with a serious punch but Goku should be able to dodge and blast his way to victory.

Stop using GT as cannon material. DBZ is cannon to GT, but GT is by NO MEANS cannon to DBZ. Stop mentioning it at all. You're just making yourself look stupid.

And do I need to explain again that planet busting is thousands of times more impressive than anything Saitama has shown himself to be capable of?

None of Saitama's feats are ANYTHING compared to Saiyan saga Goku and Vegeta's planet busting feat's. So until he gets one, Saitama is not even a challenge for Goku. Saitama's punch has a force of 1.5 million megatons, approximately. Goku's kamehameha wave has a force of OVER 110 QUADRILLION megatons, which is a planet busting force. A kamehameha wave from Goku is LITERALLY over 73 BILLION times more powerful than a punch from Saitama.

And even Vegeta BATTED that attack away. Meaning that his striking force is that great.

Literally what you think Saitama's punch would do to Goku, Goku's punch would do a thousand times over to Saitama.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
It's pretty sad that Brem and Time are the only two making sense here.

SSJ2 tier characters like SSJ2 Goku and Majin Vegeta during the Buu saga tossed around and slapped away SOLAR SYSTEM BUSTING+ attacks. Making their striking power the equivalent to over 10 octillion megatons, or 10 decillion tons.

Saitama's best feat is striking with force capable of destroying the surface of a planet, which is around 1.5 million megatons.

The two aren't even remotely comparable.

It's been a while since I've been here, but it seems the hyperbole of the dbz verse hasn't change a bit.

Solar system blast. what's next, Goku and co can destroy universes now.

Also, don't bring data book as feats, that shit doesn't work.

It's like me claiming Haku as light speed just because the data book claimed he was.

If you watched DBS you might think universe busting might be possible soon. Just saying...

Seems like you dont know much of anything about DBZ. Why even come to thesw threads and post stupid nonsense like you just did?

Originally posted by bbrem123
If you watched DBS you might think universe busting might be possible soon. Just saying...

Seems like you dont know much of anything about DBZ. Why even come to thesw threads and post stupid nonsense like you just did?

And you're still talking bullshit.

Instead of bitching, why don't you actually show actuall proof of these so called solar system and universe busters. You ****ing can't, that's why.

You're going to bring some stupid statements with no proof, then when you're shit is once more disproved, you'll try to bring a data book statement.

saitama may be physicakky stronger but goku surpasses him in every other field... goku wins

Originally posted by SquallX
And you're still talking bullshit.

Instead of bitching, why don't you actually show actuall proof of these so called solar system and universe busters. You ****ing can't, that's why.

You're going to bring some stupid statements with no proof, then when you're shit is once more disproved, you'll try to bring a data book statement. Chill out bro. I never said he could bust the universe. You are not even worth my time. Get lost chump

Originally posted by bbrem123
Chill out bro. I never said he could bust the universe. You are not even worth my time. Get lost chump

And you're still an idiot that uses hyperbole and statements with no proof to give the dbz verse a win. Kinda pathetic.

Lol...it was said in Cell bio that his final attack was powerful enough to destroy a solar system. Can't get any canon than that.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...it was said in Cell bio that his final attack was powerful enough to destroy a solar system. Can't get any canon than that.

No it ****ing doesn't, not when later showings contradict said statements.

Bios claims Hulk to be the strongest there is, but we know that's false.

Bios claims Haku from Naruto is light speed in his mirrors, and we know that's false.

Statements by a character are not facts without proof, and worse when later showings proves other wise.

Case and point, the Buu Saga. Buu was at least x5 stronger than Cell, yet at his height of his powers, he was just a casual planet buster.

Buu never went higher than that. So if Buu who is superior then Cell never busted a Solar System, then Cell who is weaker than Buu is a contradictory to itself.

wow loll

Originally posted by SquallX
No it ****ing doesn't, not when later showings contradict said statements.

Bios claims Hulk to be the strongest there is, but we know that's false.

Bios claims Haku from Naruto is light speed in his mirrors, and we know that's false.

Statements by a character are not facts without proof, and worse when later showings proves other wise.

Case and point, the Buu Saga. Buu was at least x5 stronger than Cell, yet at his height of his powers, he was just a casual planet buster.

Buu never went higher than that. So if Buu who is superior then Cell never busted a Solar System, then Cell who is weaker than Buu is a contradictory to itself.



This is unbelievable. Outright hilarious.

Originally posted by yungz22
saitama may be physicakky stronger but goku surpasses him in every other field... goku wins

Originally posted by SquallX
No it ****ing doesn't, not when later showings contradict said statements.

Bios claims Hulk to be the strongest there is, but we know that's false.

Bios claims Haku from Naruto is light speed in his mirrors, and we know that's false.

Statements by a character are not facts without proof, and worse when later showings proves other wise.

Case and point, the Buu Saga. Buu was at least x5 stronger than Cell, yet at his height of his powers, he was just a casual planet buster.

Buu never went higher than that. So if Buu who is superior then Cell never busted a Solar System, then Cell who is weaker than Buu is a contradictory to itself.

At least there are some reasonable true debaters here to counter the trolls. I see hope.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe

At least there are some reasonable true debaters here to counter the trolls. I see hope.

I love the fact that I contradict there bulkshits, but instead of actually debating against it, all they can write is lol. As if that's suppose to mean something to me.

ome of the reasons I hate dbz versus anything, there throlls takes every statement as truth, even when they both contradicts or lacks the feats.

I swear, if Goku claims his fart is a pllanet buster, they'll claim it as absolute facts.

Then leave these threads fool^

Originally posted by bbrem123
Then leave these threads fool^

But it's so much fun proving most of you tards wrong.

You're not doing anything but making yourself look like a idiot though...comedic if you ask.

Keep at it I guess.

Originally posted by bbrem123
You're not doing anything but making yourself look like a idiot though...comedic if you ask.

Keep at it I guess.

but i mean there are alot of dbz tards on this site.. idk where al of them came from ive been here for almost 10 years and it wasnt this bad before

Are you calling people DBZ tards because they disagree with your aspect of the characters?

Originally posted by carver9
Are you calling people DBZ tards because they disagree with your aspect of the characters?


no ppl are tards because they dont base their arguements on fact and logic.... they only like certain characters better which is why they say he/she would win.


in a tards eyes there can on be one winner of a fight and thats the character they love most


they argue on different rules

Originally posted by SquallX
It's been a while since I've been here, but it seems the hyperbole of the dbz verse hasn't change a bit.

Solar system blast. what's next, Goku and co can destroy universes now.

Also, don't bring data book as feats, that shit doesn't work.

It's like me claiming Haku as light speed just because the data book claimed he was.

Hyperbole is a character exaggerating his or her abilities SARCASTICALLY. Not making a legitimate threat, in an attempt to goad his opponent into fighting back. The author WANTED Cell to be a solar system buster, therefor he is.

Yes. Bills is a universe buster. This was stated three times in Dragon Ball Super, already. I can post links.

The Naruto data book did NOT say that Haku was light speed. There was nothing of the like IN said databook. You're referring to a SINGLE dubbing error in the English dub of the anime.

In the manga, Haku states that he transports himself as a reflection through the mirrors. That has NOTHING to do with speed, whatsoever. Stop making things up, because you're making yourself look like even more of a joke than everyone on here already knows you to be.

Originally posted by SquallX
I love the fact that I contradict there bulkshits, but instead of actually debating against it, all they can write is lol. As if that's suppose to mean something to me.

ome of the reasons I hate dbz versus anything, there throlls takes every statement as truth, even when they both contradicts or lacks the feats.

I swear, if Goku claims his fart is a pllanet buster, they'll claim it as absolute facts.

Statements are considerable as feats, when nothing contradicts said statements. You still have yet to show a SINGLE instance in which any of these statements were contradicted.

So either do it, or stop wasting our time, you liar.

Originally posted by yungz22
but i mean there are alot of dbz tards on this site.. idk where al of them came from ive been here for almost 10 years and it wasnt this bad before

They are here now because of all the butthurt after watching Superman walking through SSJGSSJs Kamehameha in the Deathbattle, which was a pretty accurate showing of how the fight would go in a neutral setting. And this is the reason why I hoped that Goku would win, it would have saved our forum from those raging, lying, mindless DB tards.

you are still on that? wow

and this is why you should not even be in these threads. You really need to bring up superman? wtf

pretty sad if you ask me...you are the butt hurt one trying to spam DBZ threads with this superman nonsense that nobody was even talking about.

^He asked for the reason why there are suddenly so many DB tards here on KMC, I gave it to him, nothing special.

but you are not even right...

all that shit from deathbattle was premature...so why why even bring it up. You seem like you have to preach superman in every thread you go to. Gets sicking.

I am right, the time those tards invaded our forum just fits. The DeathBattles should never have happened.

Nobody cares about that battle. People are not discrediting anything about any battle here. If anything, people are discrediting Goku power level, which again has nothing to do with Superman and Goku fights.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Hyperbole is a character exaggerating his or her abilities SARCASTICALLY. Not making a legitimate threat, in an attempt to goad his opponent into fighting back. The author WANTED Cell to be a solar system buster, therefor he is.

Yes. Bills is a universe buster. This was stated three times in Dragon Ball Super, already. I can post links.

The Naruto data book did NOT say that Haku was light speed. There was nothing of the like IN said databook. You're referring to a SINGLE dubbing error in the English dub of the anime.

In the manga, Haku states that he transports himself as a reflection through the mirrors. That has NOTHING to do with speed, whatsoever. Stop making things up, because you're making yourself look like even more of a joke than everyone on here already knows you to be.



Statements are considerable as feats, when nothing contradicts said statements. You still have yet to show a SINGLE instance in which any of these statements were contradicted.

So either do it, or stop wasting our time, you liar.

Right, because bad guys never overestimate there power right?

Cell's statement was just that genius, a ****ing statement, no more no less. That shit was the ****ing epitome of ****ing hyperbole. Why you may ask? Because he's ****ing feats contradicts his showing. Even more so when Majin Buu was introduced. Buu like i said before was atleast 10x stronger than Cell was a nothing more but a ****ing planet buster.

Kishimoto ****ing wrote that Haku's mirror made him go lightspeed. We know it's false because it ****ing contradicts itself with his showings. Same ****ing thing with Cell.

Show me proof of Bills being a Universe buster, not ****ing statements, but actual proof.

And to be an actual Universe buster, you must be able to destroy the Universe in oneshot under your own power, not planet to planet, not by causing a chain reaction, but actually destroying it in one shot.

Also, Haku never claimed to teleport at lighspeed in the American dub either. It was once again Kishimoto that claimed he moved at lightspeed in the databook.

Originally posted by SquallX
Right, because bad guys never overestimate there power right?

Cell's statement was just that genius, a ****ing statement, no more no less. That shit was the ****ing epitome of ****ing hyperbole. Why you may ask? Because he's ****ing feats contradicts his showing. Even more so when Majin Buu was introduced. Buu like i said before was atleast 10x stronger than Cell was a nothing more but a ****ing planet buster.

Kishimoto ****ing wrote that Haku's mirror made him go lightspeed. We know it's false because it ****ing contradicts itself with his showings. Same ****ing thing with Cell.

Show me proof of Bills being a Universe buster, not ****ing statements, but actual proof.

And to be an actual Universe buster, you must be able to destroy the Universe in oneshot under your own power, not planet to planet, not by causing a chain reaction, but actually destroying it in one shot.

Also, Haku never claimed to teleport at lighspeed in the American dub either. It was once again Kishimoto that claimed he moved at lightspeed in the databook.

I like the way you debate. With that said, that still makes First Form Frieza more powerful than the best of Heralds in DC and Marvel. Hell, his finger is more powerful than them since none of these people have destroyed a planet or anything close to it under their own power...

People are,

Thor
Wonder Woman
Superman
Doomsday
Darkseid
Thanos

And the list goes on. Don't you agree with this

Originally posted by carver9
I like the way you debate. With that said, that still makes First Form Frieza more powerful than the best of Heralds in DC and Marvel. Hell, his finger is more powerful than them since none of these people have destroyed a planet or anything close to it under their own power...


That's kinda silly. Frieza didn't destroy a planet with his finger. You wouldn't say Superman's eyes sealed a tear in reality/universe wouldn't you?

Originally posted by carver9
I like the way you debate. With that said, that still makes First Form Frieza more powerful than the best of Heralds in DC and Marvel. Hell, his finger is more powerful than them since none of these people have destroyed a planet or anything close to it under their own power...

People are,

Thor
Wonder Woman
Superman
Doomsday
Darkseid
Thanos

And the list goes on. Don't you agree with this

Carver, you're the epitome of a ****ing moron. So what's the point of naming those characters again for.


Most of those character you list don't go around blasting planets away.

Thor, we know Thor at is strongest can fight Galactus. A being that has on panel mind you actually destroys Universes in one shot.

Wonder Woman has never destroy a planet either, but we know at her highest level, she has taken Universal beings on. The Shattered God being the one that comes to mind.

Superman. Seriously carver.

Doomsday, he's power is not about destroying planet, but more about evolution. we know DD would kill anyone in DBZ because of said evolution.

Darkseid. You're an idiot. Darkseid true form falling was in Final Crisis was destroying all of realities. Owns a Prometheus Giant. New 52 Darkseid hand was destroying a Universe because of John Constantine.

Thanos, don't know much about him, but am pretty sure he survived a planet being destroyed around.

Want me to name actual Universe busters.

Parallax
Extant
Galactus
Darkseid true form
COIE Anti Monitor

Want me to go on.

For all youre bitching, i wonder how you'll act with a DBZ Vs Hulk thread?

Originally posted by SquallX
Carver, you're the epitome of a ****ing moron. So what's the point of naming those characters again for.


Most of those character you list don't go around blasting planets away.

Thor, we know Thor at is strongest can fight Galactus. A being that has on panel mind you actually destroys Universes in one shot.

Wonder Woman has never destroy a planet either, but we know at her highest level, she has taken Universal beings on. The Shattered God being the one that comes to mind.

Superman. Seriously carver.

Doomsday, he's power is not about destroying planet, but more about evolution. we know DD would kill anyone in DBZ because of said evolution.

Darkseid. You're an idiot. Darkseid true form falling was in Final Crisis was destroying all of realities. Owns a Prometheus Giant. New 52 Darkseid hand was destroying a Universe because of John Constantine.

Thanos, don't know much about him, but am pretty sure he survived a planet being destroyed around.

Want me to name actual Universe busters.

Parallax
Extant
Galactus
Darkseid true form
COIE Anti Monitor

Want me to go on.

For all youre bitching, i wonder how you'll act with a DBZ Vs Hulk thread?

So you have nothing proving none of the people I've named can planet bust?

Originally posted by juggerman
That's kinda silly. Frieza didn't destroy a planet with his finger. You wouldn't say Superman's eyes sealed a tear in reality/universe wouldn't you?

The energy came from his finger tip. He didn't exhaust himself either. That doesn't matter. I already made my point.

Originally posted by carver9
So you have nothing proving none of the people I've named can planet bust?

So when has Goku, vegeta or any of the Z warriors ever planet bust again?

Oh wait, they never have.

You're reasoning are stupid and asinine.

Originally posted by carver9
The energy came from his finger tip. He didn't exhaust himself either. That doesn't matter. I already made my point.

You misrepresented the event. That's like me claiming I can kill millions with my finger but leaving out the fact that I'm pushing a button to launch a nuke.

Are you agreeing with SquallX? Kinda wondering what your point of view is with this.

My view on the thread? No idea who Saitama is. Was just reading the comments and noticed something I wanted to address.

I should also add Frieza finger busting Vegeta is from a non canon film. I hope that sounded dirty

Originally posted by SquallX
So when has Goku, vegeta or any of the Z warriors ever planet bust again?

Oh wait, they never have.

You're reasoning are stupid and asinine.

Gotcha. So you agree that Superman, Thor, Darkseid, Goku, Vegeta, and Thanos can't planet bust. Per your admission, we go by fts. None of these people have busted a planet with their fist or power output. So again, can these beings planet bust? Yes or no?

Originally posted by juggerman
My view on the thread? No idea who Saitama is. Was just reading the comments and noticed something I wanted to address.

I should also add Frieza finger busting Vegeta is from a non canon film. I hope that sounded dirty

True, but we know Frieza destroyed planet Vegeta though...in his first form.

Originally posted by juggerman
My view on the thread? No idea who Saitama is. Was just reading the comments and noticed something I wanted to address.

I should also add Frieza finger busting Vegeta is from a non canon film. I hope that sounded dirty Yea I hear yea. I was in the same boat. Just finish reading One Punch Man. There is really not to many feats to really prove how strong Saitama is. He has not been able to test his strength yet.

Originally posted by juggerman
You misrepresented the event. That's like me claiming I can kill millions with my finger but leaving out the fact that I'm pushing a button to launch a nuke.

See where you getting at. It doesn't matter though. He could've used his entire arm or his body but my point is,he destroyed the planet.

Originally posted by carver9
True, but we know Frieza destroyed planet Vegeta though...in his first form.

Yes but we only see him actually destroy a planet once in DBZ(I'm not counting RoF here because he was much MUCH more powerful at that point) and in that instance he only did so via chain reaction.

Originally posted by carver9
See where you getting at. It doesn't matter though. He could've used his entire arm or his body but my point is,he destroyed the planet.

He likely did so by destabilizing it's core like he did when he was a shit ton more powerful on Namek.

Originally posted by bbrem123
Yea I hear yea. I was in the same boat. Just finish reading One Punch Man. There is really not to many feats to really prove how strong Saitama is. He has not been able to test his strength yet.

Is it good?

I enjoy it. It is pretty comedic too. I would say give it a shot.

Originally posted by juggerman
Yes but we only see him actually destroy a planet once in DBZ(I'm not counting RoF here because he was much MUCH more powerful at that point) and in that instance he only did so via chain reaction.



He likely did so by destabilizing it's core like he did when he was a shit ton more powerful on Namek.

Frieza was near depleted of his power when he tried destroying Namek. Remember, Frieza tells us that it took ALL of his power to escape the spirit bomb. Then he told us he held back when he threw his attack at Namek. If you're going to lowball Frieza then we do not need to continue this debate.

Originally posted by juggerman
Yes but we only see him actually destroy a planet once in DBZ(I'm not counting RoF here because he was much MUCH more powerful at that point) and in that instance he only did so via chain reaction

Actually we see in the DBZ manga 1st form Freeza destroying planet Vegeta along with Bardock and the other saiyans.

Originally posted by carver9
Frieza was near depleted of his power when he tried destroying Namek. Remember, Frieza tells us that it took ALL of his power to escape the spirit bomb. Then he told us he held back when he threw his attack at Namek. If you're going to lowball Frieza then we do not need to continue this debate.

I didn't low ball Frieza once. He was around 50% of his power when he fired that blast. Are you arguing at 50% he fired an attack less than .25%? Doesn't really fit in with what we know about him

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
Actually we see in the DBZ manga 1st form Freeza destroying planet Vegeta along with Bardock and the other saiyans.

When? As far as I know Frieza did this off panel. If I am wrong please show me.

Originally posted by SquallX
Right, because bad guys never overestimate there power right?

Cell's statement was just that genius, a ****ing statement, no more no less. That shit was the ****ing epitome of ****ing hyperbole. Why you may ask? Because he's ****ing feats contradicts his showing. Even more so when Majin Buu was introduced. Buu like i said before was atleast 10x stronger than Cell was a nothing more but a ****ing planet buster.

Kishimoto ****ing wrote that Haku's mirror made him go lightspeed. We know it's false because it ****ing contradicts itself with his showings. Same ****ing thing with Cell.

Show me proof of Bills being a Universe buster, not ****ing statements, but actual proof.

And to be an actual Universe buster, you must be able to destroy the Universe in oneshot under your own power, not planet to planet, not by causing a chain reaction, but actually destroying it in one shot.

Also, Haku never claimed to teleport at lighspeed in the American dub either. It was once again Kishimoto that claimed he moved at lightspeed in the databook.

Okay, since your entire argument is relying on the whole hyperbole thing, entertain me here.

1. Show me Superman destroying a planet.

2. Show me Imperiex Prime destroying a universe.

3. Show me Nekron destroying a universe.

These are all feats that these characters can achieve, but NEVER HAVE BEFORE. You know how we know they can achieve them? BECAUSE IT WAS STATED.

YOU STILL HAVE YET TO SHOW ANYTHING FROM DBZ THAT CONTRADICTS CELL BEING A SOLAR SYSTEM BUSTER. Your entire argument here is that it's contradicted, and you still haven't shown a damn thing that contradicts it. When Brem compliments your debating style, you know you're doing something wrong.

Kishimoto DID NOT write that Haku was light speed. EVER. Not in a databook, not in the manga, not in ANY version of the series. It was stated ONCE in the English dub that Haku's mirror's let him travel at the speed of light. I can provide the link. BUT IT WAS A DUBBING ERROR.

http://i3.mangapanda.com/naruto/25/naruto-1565285.jpg

Haku EXPLICITLY states that the mirrors "transport" him. There is absolutely NO indication of the speed, WHATSOEVER.

STOP. LYING.

And Buu WAS more than a planet buster. In the original translated manga, Supreme Kai stated that Kid Buu had destroyed "entire galaxies". And this was in "just a few, short years". And Kid Buu couldn't teleport at the time, meaning that he either went around on certain planets and destroyed them, before flying MFTL+++++ to other planets, or he tortured people on certain planets, and destroyed entire galaxies when he felt like it. So take your pick.

SO SINCE YOU SEEM TO BE LEARNING DISABLED, I WILL MAKE THIS AS SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE FOR YOU. EITHER SHOW CONTRADICTORY EVIDENCE AGAINST CELL BEING A SOLAR SYSTEM BUSTER, OR STOP REPLYING.

Originally posted by juggerman
When? As far as I know Frieza did this off panel. If I am wrong please show me.

Here it is:

http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/26-113.0/compressed/gdragon_ball_z_v010-093.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/26-113.0/compressed/gdragon_ball_z_v010-094.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/26-113.0/compressed/gdragon_ball_z_v010-095.jpg

Originally posted by juggerman
My view on the thread? No idea who Saitama is. Was just reading the comments and noticed something I wanted to address.

I should also add Frieza finger busting Vegeta is from a non canon film. I hope that sounded dirty

The film was cannon. Although SJ already addressed this.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
When Brem compliments your debating style, you know you're doing something wrong. Hey! Hell no I didn't compliment him...

Originally posted by bbrem123
Hey! Hell no I didn't compliment him...

Oh, my bad. That was Carver.

You're actually on the right side here, from what I'm seeing.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Oh, my bad. That was Carver.

You're actually on the right side here, from what I'm seeing. haha yea definitely wasn't me.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
The film was cannon. Although SJ already addressed this.

It wasn't canon. In fact Akira wrote his own DB prequel that contradicts "Bardock: Father of Goku" in a number of ways. With that being the case the film, which was already considered non canon by many, was placed firmly in the non canon section

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
Here it is:

http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/26-113.0/compressed/gdragon_ball_z_v010-093.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/26-113.0/compressed/gdragon_ball_z_v010-094.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/26-113.0/compressed/gdragon_ball_z_v010-095.jpg

The actual planet's destruction wasn't shown tho. The scan with Frieza and Bardock could have been Frieza killing him before attacking the planet as a whole. Or Frieza destroying Vegeta like he did Namek(chain reaction) and Bardock dying in the explosion "5 minutes" later. We were never given specifics and the only time we actually see Frieza blown a planet up it is when he is about 200x stronger and still he fails to one shot it. Granted he admits he held back but we have no idea as to how much

Originally posted by juggerman
The actual planet's destruction wasn't shown tho. The scan with Frieza and Bardock could have been Frieza killing him before attacking the planet as a whole. Or Frieza destroying Vegeta like he did Namek(chain reaction) and Bardock dying in the explosion "5 minutes" later. We were never given specifics and the only time we actually see Frieza blown a planet up it is when he is about 200x stronger and still he fails to one shot it. Granted he admits he held back but we have no idea as to how much

Edit: The special was detailed to the chapters being discussed. But it was confirmed in ROF anyway's, so it is still cannon.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
The scans are CLEARLY referencing the special, which came out just before the episodes being discussed.

Did the special come out before the manga chapter? Also how would you explain the new story that contradicts the special?

Originally posted by juggerman
The actual planet's destruction wasn't shown tho. The scan with Frieza and Bardock could have been Frieza killing him before attacking the planet as a whole. Or Frieza destroying Vegeta like he did Namek(chain reaction) and Bardock dying in the explosion "5 minutes" later. We were never given specifics and the only time we actually see Frieza blown a planet up it is when he is about 200x stronger and still he fails to one shot it. Granted he admits he held back but we have no idea as to how much

Conjecture.
Come on, you are now just refusing to accept evidence: Freeza tells us he destroyed the planet, we see Bardock in space along with Freeza's goons (like in the anime), finally we see Bardock exploding along the planet, with 1st form Freeza pointing his finger like in the anime.
Then, after the manga, anime itself is second-canon source, and there we see the full scene (which is totally coincident) of planet destruction.
We know for certain how things went from both manga, anime and also new specials, there's no point in denying facts.

^ What he said.

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
Conjecture.
Come on, you are now just refusing to accept evidence: Freeza tells us he destroyed the planet, we see Bardock in space along with Freeza's goons (like in the anime), finally we see Bardock exploding along the planet, with 1st form Freeza pointing his finger like in the anime.
Then, after the manga, anime itself is second-canon source, and there we see the full scene (which is totally coincident) of planet destruction.
We know for certain how things went from both manga, anime and also new specials, there's no point in denying facts.

The new manga totally ignores BFoG. While Bardock may have confronted Frieza, he was not able to see the future, he was not betrayed and almost killed by Dodoria, he was not laughed out of a bar ect. Basically nothing besides Bardock guessing something was up was kept. So are we to assume the story AK actually wrote is less canon than the one he didn't write?

Originally posted by juggerman
The new manga totally ignores BFoG. While Bardock may have confronted Frieza, he was not able to see the future, he was not betrayed and almost killed by Dodoria, he was not laughed out of a bar ect. Basically nothing besides Bardock guessing something was up was kept. So are we to assume the story AK actually wrote is less canon than the one he didn't write?

Yes. Toriyama even admitted that his writing doesn't make a lot of sense anymore, because he can't remember things that well. He's getting old, christ. His new material no longer supersedes the old material, given that he even stated that the Daizenshuu's were more accurate than his own series.

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
Conjecture.
Come on, you are now just refusing to accept evidence: Freeza tells us he destroyed the planet, we see Bardock in space along with Freeza's goons (like in the anime), finally we see Bardock exploding along the planet, with 1st form Freeza pointing his finger like in the anime.
Then, after the manga, anime itself is second-canon source, and there we see the full scene (which is totally coincident) of planet destruction.
We know for certain how things went from both manga, anime and also new specials, there's no point in denying facts.




He's always wrong. Anyways, Frieza destroyed planet Vegeta with his finger.

Originally posted by juggerman
I didn't low ball Frieza once. He was around 50% of his power when he fired that blast. Are you arguing at 50% he fired an attack less than .25%? Doesn't really fit in with what we know about him



Yep...you're trying to hard. Let's move on since we both know you are wrong. Stop being in denial.

Also, let me repeat this again for you. Frieza before being hit by the Spirit bomb was at 50% of his power. When the bomb HIT him, he was near depletion.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Okay, since your entire argument is relying on the whole hyperbole thing, entertain me here.

1. Show me Superman destroying a planet.

2. Show me Imperiex Prime destroying a universe.

3. Show me Nekron destroying a universe.

These are all feats that these characters can achieve, but NEVER HAVE BEFORE. You know how we know they can achieve them? BECAUSE IT WAS STATED.

YOU STILL HAVE YET TO SHOW ANYTHING FROM DBZ THAT CONTRADICTS CELL BEING A SOLAR SYSTEM BUSTER. Your entire argument here is that it's contradicted, and you still haven't shown a damn thing that contradicts it. When Brem compliments your debating style, you know you're doing something wrong.

Kishimoto DID NOT write that Haku was light speed. EVER. Not in a databook, not in the manga, not in ANY version of the series. It was stated ONCE in the English dub that Haku's mirror's let him travel at the speed of light. I can provide the link. BUT IT WAS A DUBBING ERROR.

http://i3.mangapanda.com/naruto/25/naruto-1565285.jpg

Haku EXPLICITLY states that the mirrors "transport" him. There is absolutely NO indication of the speed, WHATSOEVER.

STOP. LYING.

And Buu WAS more than a planet buster. In the original translated manga, Supreme Kai stated that Kid Buu had destroyed "entire galaxies". And this was in "just a few, short years". And Kid Buu couldn't teleport at the time, meaning that he either went around on certain planets and destroyed them, before flying MFTL+++++ to other planets, or he tortured people on certain planets, and destroyed entire galaxies when he felt like it. So take your pick.

SO SINCE YOU SEEM TO BE LEARNING DISABLED, I WILL MAKE THIS AS SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE FOR YOU. EITHER SHOW CONTRADICTORY EVIDENCE AGAINST CELL BEING A SOLAR SYSTEM BUSTER, OR STOP REPLYING.

Still you using an idiotic dbz logic. Dbz unlike DC or Marvel comics are linear in power levels. That means, if i have a greater power level than you, then i can achieve greater feats than you.

Lets play you're idiotic games.

1. Show me Goku blowing up a planet, then ill you show you Superman blowing one up.

2. Show me Buu/Beerus blowing up Universe, then ill show you Imperiex blowing one up.

3. Show me Whis, who is more powerful than Beerus blowing up a Universe, then i'll show you Nekron doing the same.

You're stupid logic doesn't work. Like i said before, DBZ power level is one of the most linear powers in fiction out there. If i have more Ki than you, then am stronger.

I've already proven multiple times on how Cell contradicts itself. He claimed that his Kamehameha Waves is a Solar System buster, yet Buu who is at least x10 more powerful than him never achieved, nor showed anything even close to that.

Wrong, Databook claimed Haku is lightspeed because of the way his mirror technique worked. We know it's false because it contradicts itself. No one in Naruto is lightspeed.

All Buu has ever showed was Planet busting, no more no less. Is he a casual Planet buster? **** yes. But he's nothing more unless proven other wise. Kid Buu never once destroyed a Galaxy in a single blast. We know that because Bibidi was traveling with Kid Buu from Planet to Planet. Unless were now claiming that Bibidi is FTL.

Kid Buu is not, nor have he ever showed you're so called MTFL+++ speed. That's just bullshit you're trowing out of you're ass number.

News Flash, Dbz have no Solar System Buster, nor Galaxies Buster, nor Universe Buster until actual proof is given, and not say so by tards.

Originally posted by carver9


Yep...you're trying to hard. Let's move on since we both know you are wrong. Stop being in denial.

Also, let me repeat this again for you. Frieza before being hit by the Spirit bomb was at 50% of his power. When the bomb HIT him, he was near depletion.

I'm not wrong you are just denying facts. Frieza was still powerful enough to take hits from SSJ1 Goku before he fired his blast. Had he been even close to his First Form power Goku would have killed him by blinking too hard. Keep trying tho

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta

And Buu WAS more than a planet buster. In the original translated manga, Supreme Kai stated that Kid Buu had destroyed "entire galaxies". And this was in "just a few, short years".

Quick question about this part. We are talking about a "god" here. I mean Supreme Kai has lived for millions and millions of years right. So isn't it possible "a few short years" to him could be 100? Even 1,000? I mean to an immortal being that has already lived several million years, I would think a century wouldn't be given a second thought. What do you think?

Originally posted by juggerman
I'm not wrong you are just denying facts. Frieza was still powerful enough to take hits from SSJ1 Goku before he fired his blast. Had he been even close to his First Form power Goku would have killed him by blinking too hard. Keep trying tho

Goku was obviously not trying. Frieza tells us that the blast took all of his power. I don't understand why you are ignoring this.

Originally posted by carver9


He's always wrong.

Like I was in the Broly thread you fled from?

Originally posted by carver9
Goku was obviously not trying. Frieza tells us that the blast took all of his power. I don't understand why you are ignoring this.

So Goku, who just saw his best friend murdered and Gohan's step father critically injured, lowered his power to below First Form Frieza level because..... what? Keep in mind Goku would have to lower his power to lower than a percent in your mind for no other reason than to make your silly claim work. He was angry as hell. Even goofy playful Goku doesn't hold back that much. Keep dreaming

Originally posted by juggerman
So Goku, who just saw his best friend murdered and Gohan's step father critically injured, lowered his power to below First Form Frieza level because..... what? Keep in mind Goku would have to lower his power to lower than a percent in your mind for no other reason than to make your silly claim work. He was angry as hell. Even goofy playful Goku doesn't hold back that much. Keep dreaming

Goku tells us why he didn't outright kill Frieza, he wanted to fight Frieza at his best which is the reason he allowed him to power up. Lol...your argument is still flawed because if Goku wasn't holding back, Frieza at 50% of his power would still get killed by a single hit from a full powered Super Saiyan Goku.

Originally posted by juggerman
Like I was in the Broly thread you fled from?

Don't know what you're talking about.

Originally posted by carver9
Goku tells us why he didn't outright kill Frieza, he wanted to fight Frieza at his best which is the reason he allowed him to power up. Lol...your argument is still flawed because if Goku wasn't holding back, Frieza at 50% of his power would still get killed by a single hit from a full powered Super Saiyan Goku.

Holding back 50% of your power and 99.99% is a huge difference Carv and you know it. Goku's attacks were a lot like the attacks SSJ2 Gohan used on Cell. Frieza being spent immediately after the bomb went off doesn't mean he was First Form weak. No evidence supports that and again all evidence supports the opposite as a pissed off Goku didn't one shot him. Also you'd have to ignore that fact that the SSJ transformation was new to Goku and he did not have full control over it to fine tune it to less that 1% as you claim

Originally posted by carver9
Don't know what you're talking about.

I can link it if you'd like. I'm nice like that

Originally posted by juggerman
Holding back 50% of your power and 99.99% is a huge difference Carv and you know it. Goku's attacks were a lot like the attacks SSJ2 Gohan used on Cell. Frieza being spent immediately after the bomb went off doesn't mean he was First Form weak. No evidence supports that and again all evidence supports the opposite as a pissed off Goku didn't one shot him. Also you'd have to ignore that fact that the SSJ transformation was new to Goku and he did not have full control over it to fine tune it to less that 1% as you claim



I can link it if you'd like. I'm nice like that

Don't think you understand what power levels means in DBZ. If someone is half of the strength of another character and the stronger one is going all out, it is a one shot. The only thing that contradicts this is if Goku was holding back, which he was since his goal was to fight Frieza at his Prime.

Frieza tells us that surviving the spirit bomb depleted him of his power. Don't debate against me about this, you probably should write Akira.

Originally posted by juggerman
Quick question about this part. We are talking about a "god" here. I mean Supreme Kai has lived for millions and millions of years right. So isn't it possible "a few short years" to him could be 100? Even 1,000? I mean to an immortal being that has already lived several million years, I would think a century wouldn't be given a second thought. What do you think? I think the word "galaxies" was NEVER once referenced in the canon manga dialogue.

Even though I've provided 'Gogeta Toriyama' with the canon line(s) from the official Japanese and VIZ copies numerous times, he still clings to the non-canon dialogue from the scanlation/anime, lol.

Anyway, here is the official Japanese translation:
Chapter: 445 (DBZ 251), P13.3-5
Kaioshin: "Long ago, about when humanity on Earth had just begun to walk on 2 legs... In the depths of space, there was an extremely evil wizard called "Bibidi"... One day, by chance Bibidi happened to create a terrible monster... An extraordinarily terrifying majin called "Boo"... Majin Boo had neither reason nor emotions, and devoted himself to nothing but destruction and slaughter... A monster born only to inspire fear in living things... In just a few years, hundreds of planets were transformed into dead worlds..."

And here is the page/dialogue from VIZ:
http://i.imgur.com/OcaIQD4.jpg
"In just a few years, hundreds of planets were wiped out."


So again: Kaioshin canonically credits Boo with destroying "hundreds of planets" over the course of "a few years." Obviously this is a FAR cry from destroying 'entire galaxieS', lol.

Originally posted by Galan007
I think the word "galaxies" was NEVER once referenced in the canon manga dialogue.

Even though I've provided 'Gogeta Toriyama' with the canon line(s) from the official Japanese and VIZ copies numerous times, he still clings to the non-canon dialogue from the scanlation/anime, lol.

Anyway, here is the official Japanese translation:
Chapter: 445 (DBZ 251), P13.3-5
Kaioshin: "Long ago, about when humanity on Earth had just begun to walk on 2 legs... In the depths of space, there was an extremely evil wizard called "Bibidi"... One day, by chance Bibidi happened to create a terrible monster... An extraordinarily terrifying majin called "Boo"... Majin Boo had neither reason nor emotions, and devoted himself to nothing but destruction and slaughter... A monster born only to inspire fear in living things... In just a few years, hundreds of planets were transformed into dead worlds..."

And here is the page/dialogue from VIZ:
http://i.imgur.com/OcaIQD4.jpg
"In just a few years, hundreds of planets were wiped out."


So again: Kaioshin canonically credits Boo with destroying "hundreds of planets" over the course of "a few years." Obviously this is a FAR cry from destroying 'entire galaxieS', lol.

Thank you for that, but i can promise you that it will just go over there heads and claims that Buu is a Galaxy buster. Mind you, i don't care if anyone in DBZ are Galaxy buster or higher. What i care about is when they outright lie just to make themselves look good, but unknowing to them they end up giving the reasonable fans of the series a bad name.

It's like me claiming Doomsday is a planet buster just because narration claims in a just the spans of a few years he goes planet to planet and annihilates all life on them.

Since you're one of the few fans of DBZ that doesn't exaggerate there feats, some claims in DBS Beerus is a Universe buster, since i haven't had the time to watch it, is it true?

Yes, statements to that effect have been made about Beerus. However, we have no idea how long it would take him to 'universe-bust'--he might be able to do it in one fell swoop, or it might take him eons.

As of now, the time-frame is still entirely ambiguous.

whats the universe busing attack called again?...... ill wait

you guy are funny. We said(well I know I did) that Beerus MIGHT be able to destroy the universe. Just as Galan has said. But they Kai's do seem pretty never that he is going to destroy everything at full power. (Which imo seems to be from the effects of the fight at hand). Nobody will know for sure until the next episode is out.

Originally posted by bbrem123
you guy are funny. We said(well I know I did) that Beerus MIGHT be able to destroy the universe. Just as Galan has said. But they Kai's do seem pretty never that he is going to destroy everything at full power. (Which imo seems to be from the effects of the fight at hand). Nobody will know for sure until the next episode is out.

The thing is, it's hard to take most of you guys serious when you claim something because most of you exaggerates certain feats and sometimes outright lie.

Oh I can agree with that. I have seen it happen. They get these feats from multipliers and theorized power levels. Which I do not agree with at all.

still waiting.... oh yea please include charge time as well

Are you talking to yourself again Yungz?

Originally posted by bbrem123
Oh I can agree with that. I have seen it happen. They get these feats from multipliers and theorized power levels. Which I do not agree with at all. There is a huge difference between someone using evidence-based/logical power-scaling as a means to prove why character A>character B, and someone who pulls entirely baseless feats/'logic' out of their ass just to wank their pet character.

I would imagine that SquallX is more irritated by the latter(as are we all.)

Originally posted by carver9
Don't think you understand what power levels means in DBZ. If someone is half of the strength of another character and the stronger one is going all out, it is a one shot. The only thing that contradicts this is if Goku was holding back, which he was since his goal was to fight Frieza at his Prime.

Frieza tells us that surviving the spirit bomb depleted him of his power. Don't debate against me about this, you probably should write Akira.

I understand perfectly what power levels mean. Goku was holding back but nothing points to him holding back to the degree you are talking about. Also please provide the page where Frieza says he's depleted because all I remember is him saying he nearly died.

Frieza was between 50% and 70% when he fired that blast iirc. Again, him being "depleted" right after the bomb is not the same as being "depleted" later especially after fighting Goku for a little bit after coming back.

Originally posted by Galan007
I think the word "galaxies" was NEVER once referenced in the canon manga dialogue.

Even though I've provided 'Gogeta Toriyama' with the canon line(s) from the official Japanese and VIZ copies numerous times, he still clings to the non-canon dialogue from the scanlation/anime, lol.

Anyway, here is the official Japanese translation:
Chapter: 445 (DBZ 251), P13.3-5
Kaioshin: "Long ago, about when humanity on Earth had just begun to walk on 2 legs... In the depths of space, there was an extremely evil wizard called "Bibidi"... One day, by chance Bibidi happened to create a terrible monster... An extraordinarily terrifying majin called "Boo"... Majin Boo had neither reason nor emotions, and devoted himself to nothing but destruction and slaughter... A monster born only to inspire fear in living things... In just a few years, hundreds of planets were transformed into dead worlds..."

And here is the page/dialogue from VIZ:
http://i.imgur.com/OcaIQD4.jpg
"In just a few years, hundreds of planets were wiped out."


So again: Kaioshin canonically credits Boo with destroying "hundreds of planets" over the course of "a few years." Obviously this is a FAR cry from destroying 'entire galaxieS', lol.

That's just sad man

Originally posted by Galan007
There is a huge difference between someone using evidence-based/logical power-scaling as a means to prove why character A>character B, and someone who pulls entirely baseless feats/'logic' out of their ass just to wank their pet character.

I would imagine that SquallX is more irritated by the latter(as are we all.) Yea I can understand logical power scaling, but it seems that feats are going to start to make power scaling seem inaccurate. I just do think power scaling/multipliers should be the end all proof of somebodies power.

But yes you are right

Originally posted by bbrem123
Are you talking to yourself again Yungz?


just asking a question that needs to be answered by the ub claimers

I always stated
Feats > power scaling :/

Power-scaling is what we use in DB the majority of the time, whether you people want to accept it or not.

For example: Goku has never destroyed a moon. Master Roshi has. That said, if we only relied on collateral damage-causing feats, then Roshi would be >>>>> SSJ3 Goku... But thanks to logical power-scaling, we know this is obviously not true.

It really is that easy to understand.

Agreed. But you have some saying GT characters are all universe buster because of power scaling. We all know that is not true. There is a limit to using power scaling to gauge a characters power.

Originally posted by Galan007
Power-scaling is what we use in DB the majority of the time, whether you people want to accept it or not.

For example: Goku has never destroyed a moon. Master Roshi has. That said, if we only relied on collateral damage-causing feats, then Roshi would be >>>>> SSJ3 Goku... But thanks to logical power-scaling, we know this is obviously not true.

It really is that easy to understand.



Same applies to Frieza destroying a planet with ease. Super Saiyan 2 Gohan has never destroyed a planet but via power scaling, it is obvious he can achieve this. Power levels>>>>>Fts.

Originally posted by Galan007
Power-scaling is what we use in DB the majority of the time, whether you people want to accept it or not.

For example: Goku has never destroyed a moon. Master Roshi has. That said, if we only relied on collateral damage-causing feats, then Roshi would be >>>>> SSJ3 Goku... But thanks to logical power-scaling, we know this is obviously not true.

It really is that easy to understand. Beyonder Big G doesn't care though. Read his wiki.

Originally posted by juggerman
The new manga totally ignores BFoG. While Bardock may have confronted Frieza, he was not able to see the future, he was not betrayed and almost killed by Dodoria, he was not laughed out of a bar ect. Basically nothing besides Bardock guessing something was up was kept. So are we to assume the story AK actually wrote is less canon than the one he didn't write?

I understand what you are saying in this case.
If you ask me about this fact, my answer will always be that the original DB-DBZ manga stands above everything, anytime.: thus, Freeza destroyed planet Vegeta along with the Saiyan race while in his 1st form, sitting on his ki-propelled chair, there's no escape from that.

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
I understand what you are saying in this case.
If you ask me about this fact, my answer will always be that the original DB-DBZ manga stands above everything, anytime.: thus, Freeza destroyed planet Vegeta along with the Saiyan race while in his 1st form, sitting on his ki-propelled chair, there's no escape from that.

I always assumed BFoG was canon until it was pointed out to me(probably by Galan) that AK didn't write it and didn't choose to canonize it. He only canonized the one character Bardock but nothing else.

And now he even made a "reboot" which further shows it isn't canon. I don't see how an AK story is less canon than one written by another guy.

Originally posted by juggerman
I always assumed BFoG was canon until it was pointed out to me(probably by Galan) that AK didn't write it and didn't choose to canonize it. He only canonized the one character Bardock but nothing else.

And now he even made a "reboot" which further shows it isn't canon. I don't see how an AK story is less canon than one written by another guy.

Bardock exploding along planet Vegeta and 1st form Freeza finger-blasting appear in the original DBZ manga:

original DBZ manga > everything.

Bardock, planet Vegeta exploding with all the Saiyans, and 1st form Freeza finger-busting from his chair are all canon that more canon than this you can't actually get. I consider all the rest incosequential.
That's the only thing I can personally say about this.

Originally posted by juggerman
I always assumed BFoG was canon until it was pointed out to me(probably by Galan) that AK didn't write it and didn't choose to canonize it. He only canonized the one character Bardock but nothing else.

And now he even made a "reboot" which further shows it isn't canon. I don't see how an AK story is less canon than one written by another guy.

Sigh.

Originally posted by carver9


Same applies to Frieza destroying a planet with ease. Super Saiyan 2 Gohan has never destroyed a planet but via power scaling, it is obvious he can achieve this. Power levels>>>>>Fts.

There's a big difference from being a Planet buster to a Solar System buster.

Some of you guys uses powerscallling all wrong. The jump from planet to Solar System is an astronomical jump that makes no sense what so ever when characters that comes later haven't showed said power outputs.

So if someone comes on here and claims Buu to be a casual Planet Buster, ill completely agree with them, but when someone comes and claims that Buu is a Galaxy buster with no feats to back it up, then get ready for a fight you on it.

Originally posted by SquallX
There's a big difference from being a Planet buster to a Solar System buster.

Some of you guys uses powerscallling all wrong. The jump from planet to Solar System is an astronomical jump that makes no sense what so ever when characters that comes later haven't showed said power outputs.

So if someone comes on here and claims Buu to be a casual Planet Buster, ill completely agree with them, but when someone comes and claims that Buu is a Galaxy buster with no feats to back it up, then get ready for a fight you on it. Even if Cell was a solar system buster (which he was), power scaling still wouldn't allow for Buu to be a galaxy buster. Because galaxies are ****ing huge and there's like hundreds of billions of stars in the milky way alone.

So there's no fear there. Beerus on the other hand though might reach and surpass that

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Even if Cell was a solar system buster (which he was), power scaling still wouldn't allow for Buu to be a galaxy buster. Because galaxies are ****ing huge and there's like hundreds of billions of stars in the milky way alone.

So there's no fear there. Beerus on the other hand though might reach and surpass that

How was Cell Solar System Buster when feats performed by much more powerful characters than him never went higher than Planet buster?

^ Cell's solar system busting claim come from the ViZ manga translations and a databook entry for SSJ2 Gohan. While I still think its sketchy those are two canon sources to draw from.

I still want to know what any of this has to do with Goku fighting Saitama.

Originally posted by SquallX
How was Cell Solar System Buster when feats performed by much more powerful characters than him never went higher than Planet buster? There has never been a reason/need for a character in Dragon Ball to one-shot more than a planet, tbh. Goku, for example, has never done so. Does that mean he is incapable of such? No. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, as it were.

As for Cell: he commented that his final Kamehameha was powerful enough to destroy the solar system. Gohan's official SSJ2 bio corroborates Cell's claim. So yes, he was a potential 'insta'-solar system-buster.

Don't worry, though: even with power-scaling in full-swing, that still doesn't put anyone in Z(aside, perhaps, from those in the Beerus/Whis-tier) remotely close to galaxy-busting-level... Nevermind universe-busting, lol.

Originally posted by Galan007
There has never been a reason/need for a character in Dragon Ball to one-shot more than a planet, tbh. Goku, for example, has never done so. Does that mean he is incapable of such? No. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, as it were.

As for Cell: he commented that his final Kamehameha was powerful enough to destroy the solar system. Gohan's official SSJ2 bio corroborates Cell's claim. So yes, he was a potential 'insta'-solar system-buster.

Don't worry, though: even with power-scaling in full-swing, that still doesn't put anyone in Z(aside, perhaps, from those in the Beerus/Whis-tier) remotely close to galaxy-busting-level... Nevermind universe-busting, lol.

I see where you and Waka's coming from. I might even agree with you, but in the end, it is a contradiction.

We all know the second we found out that Frieza wiped out the Saiyans race, the chance of him being a planet buster wasn't so far off. Goku beating him automatically put him at a planet buster even if he never planet bust. We do that 1. because of feats, and 2. because of power scalling being use the right way.

In DBZ, power is linear right? We know if you have a higher ki level, you're stronger than you're opponent.

Now let's look at Cell and SSJ2 Gohan.

Bio and Cell claims they posses a Solar System buster. That's fine. Let's not even bring collateral damage into it. No feat was proven just a statement.

Now x amount of yrs passed, and Buu showed up.

Buu we know is atleast x10 of Cell, never displayed said power.

Kid Buu though weaker than SUper Buu, was pure rage and hate. The first thing he did was to casually blow up the planet without a second thought.

In that display of feat, we saw KB as a casuall planet buster. Can we claim that the reason he didn't destroy a Solar System before was because Bibidi didn't want him too? Sure we can use that as a reason. But what was the reason why he didn't bust the Solar System after he was resurrected?

That feat from Kid Buu who's nothing but a mindless killing being proves Cell's statement about being a Solar System as just that a statement and a contradiction to the later part of the story.

Same for the Bio. Bio's are secondary canon, there to be use as mostly a guide, they don't take precedence over the primary canon.

The only Bio in manga i've read that doesn't contradicts itself is the Jojo Bizarre bio.

Can i be wrong about the Cell thing? Of course i can. Am not that single minded that ill scream am right and everyone's wrong. I have no problem changing my mind if actual proof is showed to me and not just a characters statement and bios been used. Let's be honest here, Cell was even more of a blow hard than Frieeza that loved hearing himself talk.

Originally posted by Galan007
There has never been a reason/need for a character in Dragon Ball to one-shot more than a planet, tbh. Goku, for example, has never done so. Does that mean he is incapable of such? No. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, as it were.

As for Cell: he commented that his final Kamehameha was powerful enough to destroy the solar system. Gohan's official SSJ2 bio corroborates Cell's claim. So yes, he was a potential 'insta'-solar system-buster.

Don't worry, though: even with power-scaling in full-swing, that still doesn't put anyone in Z(aside, perhaps, from those in the Beerus/Whis-tier) remotely close to galaxy-busting-level... Nevermind universe-busting, lol.



Common sense really.

@Squall...

Doomsday is a heartless monster. Killing machine that does not hold back and has not destroyed anything above City or mountain level yet let alone ever. Where would you put him at strength wise.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
^ Cell's solar system busting claim come from the ViZ manga translations and a databook entry for SSJ2 Gohan. While I still think its sketchy those are two canon sources to draw from.

I still want to know what any of this has to do with Goku fighting Saitama.

They ARE sketchy, because if we took claims as evidence, Mr. Satan and OPM's King would be the most powerful characters in manga.

I personally believe Cell's claims, but recognize relying on a boast (even if with source book support) makes for a shaky argument.

It became more than just a claim when it was corroborated by a bio.

Originally posted by carver9
Sigh.

Shut up Carver. I asked you to back up your claim and you couldn't and stopped replying to me. Don't come back now to piggy back others. It's unbecoming

Originally posted by Galan007
It became more than just a claim when it was corroborated by a bio.

Still doesn't make it a "feat", though.

As much as I'd love to use Walter Simonsons claim that Orion would have grown the size of a galaxy in his cancelled series, the fact is it didn't happen.

Now, that's not to say Cell has to destroy a solar system to prove he could. Silver Surfer has very few planet busting feats, but he certainly has the showings to prove he's capable of it. Alan Scott, he's someone who never destoyed a system, but his feats go a good way towards proving he could do it.

And that's what Cell lacks, an in manga on panel feat to suggest he could have blown up that solar system. Creator comments and bios shouldn't really take the place of events in story, imo (And at least on the comics vs, I believe therr's a rule against it. Haven't checked Manga vs though, but rule or not it's still a good general policy.)

Originally posted by juggerman
Shut up Carver. I asked you to back up your claim and you couldn't and stopped replying to me. Don't come back now to piggy back others. It's unbecoming

lol burn

Originally posted by juggerman
I understand perfectly what power levels mean. Goku was holding back but nothing points to him holding back to the degree you are talking about. Also please provide the page where Frieza says he's depleted because all I remember is him saying he nearly died.

Frieza was between 50% and 70% when he fired that blast iirc. Again, him being "depleted" right after the bomb is not the same as being "depleted" later especially after fighting Goku for a little bit after coming back.

So this makes your argument not so great. Goku goal was to get Frieza to power up to his max, not kill him before hand. You said he was going all out. Seems like you changed your stance.

Frieza said that the bomb drained him (don't have the page yet...looking). That could very well be the reason he was unable to accomplish his goal of destroying Namek in a single attack. Hell, he even tells us that he failed because he didn't put enough power into the attack.

Originally posted by carver9
So this makes your argument not so great. Goku goal was to get Frieza to power up to his max, not kill him before hand. You said he was going all out. Seems like you changed your stance.

Frieza said that the bomb drained him (don't have the page yet...looking). That could very well be the reason he was unable to accomplish his goal of destroying Namek in a single attack. Hell, he even tells us that he failed because he didn't put enough power into the attack.

I didn't say he went all out. I said he didn't and wouldn't hold back to the level you are trying to claim he did

I know Frieza didn't put his all into the attack. I'm not arguing against that. I just don't buy that Frieza's power dropped to below his First Form level and you have nothing suggesting it did. You are just pulling it out ya bum

Originally posted by yungz22
whats the universe busing attack called again?...... ill wait

Its called punches and blasting. Hope I helped.

hahaha^

Originally posted by carver9
Its called punches and blasting. Hope I helped.


interesting i didnt know punching and blasting was one attack

Originally posted by yungz22
interesting i didnt know punching and blasting was one attack

I gave you two attacks that you can choose from. You asked for Universal attacks (this was more than universal since it was carrying over to dimensions), so I gave them to you.

Since the DB Universe has only 4 Galaxies and not even the earth was destroyed it wasn't as impressive as I though. On top of this Thor had this feat before Goku and it was more impressive as Marvel U is infinitely bigger.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir165-StrikingPower439.jpg

I guess that the clash with Beerus had a similar resonance of godly ki as the two mjolnirs, the punches were the result of their ki not their physical power tbh.

But go on guys^^.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Since the DB Universe has only 4 Galaxies and not even the earth was destroyed it wasn't as impressive as I though. On top of this Thor had this feat before Goku and it was more impressive as Marvel U is infinitely bigger.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir165-StrikingPower439.jpg

I guess that the clash with Beerus had a similar resonance of godly ki as the two mjolnirs, the punches were the result of their ki not their physical power tbh.

But go on guys^^.

Prove that their universe is smaller? Akira said that DBZ universe is infinitely big like our Universe. It just have 4 quadrants that is watched by the overseers of the Universe.

Prove that Godly ki had something to do with it rather than their physical might. Scans please.

It was explained why Earth wasn't destroyed. Did you look at the episode? Scans showing me that you watched the episode.

Originally posted by carver9
Prove that their universe is smaller? Akira said that DBZ universe is infinitely big like our Universe. It just have 4 quadrants that is watched by the overseers of the Universe.

Prove that Godly ki had something to do with it rather than their physical might. Scans please.

It was explained why Earth wasn't destroyed. Did you look at the episode? Scans showing me that you watched the episode.

Galan already proved it.

If it would be the physical force of their punch earth would be destroyed first, since it wasn't the kinetic energy of their punch, it had to be the mystical.

I watched it^^, how can I show you a scan of me watching something online?^^

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Galan already proved it.

If it would be the physical force of their punch earth would be destroyed first, since it wasn't the kinetic energy of their punch, it had to be the mystical.

I watched it^^, how can I show you a scan of me watching something online?^^

Galan never said DBZ universe is smaller than any other Universe.

It was explained why Earth wasn't destroyed. Again, did you watch the episode? You are showing us that you didn't.

Lol...no, you didn't watch it. We all know how you work buddy. Especially when it comes to Anime.

Originally posted by carver9
Galan never said DBZ universe is smaller than any other Universe.

It was explained why Earth wasn't destroyed. Again, did you watch the episode? You are showing us that you didn't.

Lol...no, you didn't watch it. We all know how you work buddy. Especially when it comes to Anime.

He explained the 4 Galxies part.

I watched it and if it would be kinetic energy, the force of the punches, it would destroy earth first, that's how it works, WBH and Betty demonstrated it pretty good, so it had to be the mystical energy of the godly ki which destabilized the Universe.

Is it impossible to watch it online? ^^ Not really, as I did. Just because I disagree and lookt at it with logic doesn't mean i don't watch it. Tbh I watched DB Z the very first time in the 90ties, before you even knew it exists .