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Curious what people still think on this one. Standard fight, takes place in the open fields of Naboo.

The entity wins.

Plagueis may have held back the Force, but Valkorion held back his daughter. http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/3024136639.gif

Valkorion.

Plagueis held back nothing, the Force didn't resist him and Sidious at all as Nai has proven without refutement.

I actually don't think Plagueis will win this one, and put him behind Vader, so you can calm yo ****.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I, FreshestSlice, the Wrath-lover, the penultimate laemo of KMC, put him behind Vader, so you can calm yo ****.

Insult to the Wise One, ngl.

Originally posted by AncientPower
The entity wins.

Which one?

Originally posted by ares834
Which one?

I c wut u did thur

Valkorion, the real entity here. Concede to the Immortal Emperor tbh.

Both are "real" entities so...

I just find it funny that Plagueis has some ridiculous feats, and the Force never resisting is false, since the novels says after months it finally "relented." AP on that Nai trip though.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I, XSUPREMEXSKILLZ, am a bish of the lowest quality.
I agree, tbh.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I agree that I'm a cockbagel who wanks to the Wrath=Kun quote, tbh.

y is Vader>Plagueis for any reason other than exposure (since Plagueis lol'd the force so b@dly and was = TPM Sidious)

I am just having a laugh, I know what the Plagueis novel states. Valkorion having the potential to annihilate the galaxy out-shoots it entirely.

Well, Plaguies moved so fast he was a bolt of red lightning. And he nearly atomized Maladi Assassins. I know this board doesn't seem to like applying science to vs. debates but to atomize a human being requires city destroying energies. While he didn't do that he damn near did. Also, it's been a while since I read the Plagueis novel. Didn't his death release a tremor of force energy that shook Coruscant? Or was I just interpreting that wrong?

The tremor was a massive tremor in the force not an event that shook Coruscant, it Can be confusing given Luceno's purple prose though.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
y is Vader>Plagueis for any reason other than exposure (since Plagueis lol'd the force so b@dly and was = TPM Sidious)
Well, and not to get into it, since it's not the point of this thread, I hate just about everything in the novel, besides that gg quote, simply from the ridiculousness of it, the same problem I have with TFU. Atomizing people, or even getting close to it, with TK is stupid. I take everything I read in it with a grain of salt.

His feat was more or less the same as Vader's Lylek feat, it was just Luceno's writing

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Well, and not to get into it, since it's not the point of this thread, I hate just about everything in the novel, besides that gg quote, simply from the ridiculousness of it, the same problem I have with TFU. Atomizing people, or even getting close to it, with TK is stupid. I take everything I read in it with a grain of salt.

Why though? To make Holocrons you need to manipulate things at the sub-atomic level, their force attacks doing that should be comparable.

Manipulating atoms and atomizing do not mean the same thing.

My point was that they can affect the Force on that small of a level, why couldn't their attacks have an effect like they do with simple manipulation?

The Wise One.

DC you're a f*cking blemish in and of yourself on the universe

Originally posted by The Merchant
My point was that they can affect the Force on that small of a level, why couldn't their attacks have an effect like they do with simple manipulation?
Because he's just smashing them with TK. There's no control there, it's just overwhelming force. He's not tearing them apart an atom at a time.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
DC you're a f*cking blemish in and of yourself on the universe

Valky wins.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
The Wise One.



Plagueis blitzes Valkorion tbh.

Lol.

Speed feats for Valky?

Assuming the blitz logic wasn't fundamentally flawed, which it is. Vitiate exchanged a series of attacks with Revan in seconds. Plagueis isn't blitzing Valkorion at all.

Plagueis blitzes Revan.

How is Plagueis blitzing Revan, who can exchange a series of attacks in seconds? Blitzing is a pretty ridiculous notion when that nearly never happens in the mythos.

Originally posted by AncientPower
How is Plagueis blitzing Revan, who can exchange a series of attacks in seconds?
Well, that's really slow compared to Plagueis.


Still, The Wise One blitzes them.

It isn't whatsoever.

Nigga non-Force users can fight that quickly.

Revan does have insane speed feats though.
Originally posted by Stigma
Plagueis blitzes Revan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBPqksG9nbA

Originally posted by ILS
Nigga non-Force users can fight that quickly.

Revan moving fast enough to contend with (and nearly beat) eight of the most powerful beings in the galaxy with blaster fire, missile barrages, lightsaber attacks, and Force attacks coming from all angles makes it pretty obvious that Revan isn't going to go down via a speed advantage.

Meh. Plagueis is faster.

Doubt it. He's not blitzing (or winning by sheer virtue of being fast) though regardless.

Plagueis is faster =/= Plagueis can speed blitz.

This is a ridiculous claim tbh.

Still, Plagueis blitzes them.

Nice to see you concede.

Um.... the Wise One blitzes. Haven't seen anything that puts Valkorion in Plagueis's speed-tier.

That's not really how it works.

So let me get this straight, just so I can understand the logical fallacies being put forth here:

Darth Plagueis is faster than Darth Venamis, therefore Plagueis speedblitzes Revan and even Valkorion tier characters. Despite them both being capable of an exchange of numerous Force attacks in a few seconds.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Despite them both being capable of an exchange of numerous Force attacks in a few seconds.
Dude, I can exchange numerous Force attacks in a few seconds. That's hardly impressive.

/watches Stigma slowly decay from what he once was

Yeah, still Valkorion.

Just for the record, they did all of this (and more) in 'just a few seconds':

As Meetra and Scourge battled the Guard, Revan charged toward the Emperor. His opponent stood perfectly still, focusing and channeling his power. At the last possible instant, the Emperor unleashed a wave of energy that swept Revan off his feet and sent him flying backward.

Revan twisted in midair so that he was able to roll with the impact when he landed. He quickly sprang back to his feet and advanced again, moving more slowly this time. The Emperor stood in the exact same position as before; it was as if he hadn't even moved. Revan began to sense the oppressive presence of the dark side weighing down on him. The Emperor was trying to crush his will: to dominate and enslave his mind as he had before. This time, however, Revan was ready.

Instead of charging forward, he opened himself up to the Force, letting both the light and the dark side flow through him like twin rushing rivers. But instead of focusing or channeling the Force, he released it in its purest form.

There was brilliant flash as the air between the two combatants lit up. The energy unleashed was powerful enough to send Revan staggering. The Emperor, unprepared and with much of his strength diverted to his effort to dominate Revan's mind, was sent flying backward.

He landed in a heap on the floor and Revan raced toward him. The Emperor rolled over, lifted himself up on one knee, and his hands flew forward as he hurtled a bolt if dark side lightning at his enemy.

Revan intercepted the bolt with the blade of his lightsaber, though the impact stopped his charge dead in its tracks.

The Emperor unleashed three more bolts in quick succession. Revan batted the first aside with his lightsaber, ducked the second, then deflected the third back in the direction of its source.

It struck the Emperor in its chest, sending him sliding several meters back on the floor. For the first time the Sith's emotionless veneer cracked as he let out a primal hiss of hate.The sound sent shivers down Revan's spine."

-Credit to DarthAnt66

Don't most duels happen in "just a few seconds?" And a lot of that is pretty flowery text.

No they most certainly don't. Whilst that is vintage Drew Karpyshyn, that is a fairly long series of exchanges.

I may have to check Scourge's precise POV though as that might have happrned before.

Either way not a chance Plagueis is blitzing either of them.

Most duels don't last that long. Only text description demands that. That and drama.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
/watches Stigma slowly decay from what he once was I was a rotten corpse back then.

Plagueis blitzes Valky. Deal with it.

Given that Revan and Vitiate waged an entire battle in three or four (definition of 'a few') seconds. Which included:

1.Revan charges.
2.Vitiate knocks him back with a Force wave.
3.Revan charges at a slower pace.
4.Vitiate attacks him with his will.
5.Revan counters with Force Purity knocking Vitiate over.
6.Revan charges Vitiate down.
7.Vitiate rolls over and blasts Revan with energy.
8.Revan intercepts it with his blade.
9.Vitiate fires three more in succession.
10.Revan deflects the third into Vitiate's chest.
11.Vitiate gets pissed, stands up and then summons his power.
12.Vitiate unleashes an FLS which Revan attempts to Tutaminis.
13.Revan holds this off.

I will request that you prove Plagueis can move faster than doing all of that in 3 or 4 seconds let alone blitz past it. Or I must assume you are trolling and/or have no argument and accept your unspoken concession on the matter.

Valkorion wins.

What? That took longer than four seconds.

That isn't what is stated, in reality it was only just a few seconds. Unless I have the POV incorrect, which I doubt.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That's not really how it works.

Unless it's a mental contest amirite

Also, 12 /13 were the only ones that happened 'in a few seconds' lawl.

Originally posted by AncientPower
That isn't what is stated, in reality it was only just a few seconds. Unless I have the POV incorrect, which I doubt.
Unless Revan can move at twice the speed of sound, which he can't, that took longer than 4 seconds.

Stigma is cleaning house with his brilliant arguments.

Originally posted by Sinious
Stigma is cleaning house with his brilliant arguments. Finally someone who understands

But trolling joking aside, I am not convinced that Valkorion would defeat Plagueis.

Just want to go on record and say that Skillz remains the only member of the SWTOR faction to have any cogent and fair standard on feats and the role they play.

Originally posted by Stigma
Finally someone who understands

But trolling joking aside, I am not convinced that Valkorion would defeat Plagueis. You do realize this is SWTOR Vitiate after he consumed another planet right?

Does it add to his speed?

I thought you were done with jokes in this thread. Do you honestly believe Desann > Vitiate then?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Just want to go on record and say that Skillz remains the only member of the SWTOR faction to have any cogent and fair standard on feats and the role they play.
Are you implying that Valkorion and Revan can in fact not move at hyperspeed?

Originally posted by Sinious
I thought you were done with jokes in this thread. Do you honestly believe Desann > Vitiate then?
Valkorion is more powerful than Plagueis but Plagueis is still Sidious-tier Force user. On top of that he has shown superior speed and combat prowess. Plagueis's mental fortitude is also virtually unparalelled.

To paraphase Neph, power isn't everything.

Originally posted by Stigma
Valkorion is more powerful than Plagueis but Plagueis is still Sidious-tier Force user. On top of that he has shown superior speed and combat prowess. Plagueis's mental fortitude is also virtually unparalelled.

To paraphase Neph, power isn't everything. Vitiate is a dude who barely leaves his throne room and only engages in force fights when someone challenges him. The best speed feat a character of this nature could get is reacting to who ever faces him. Using that against him is illogical imo. So far, he didn't have a single problem speed wise against anyone he fought and he actually walked up to HoT's saber before they fought even though he was weakened and still didn't have a problem catching up with his opponent's speed.

Obviously, Vitiate isn't winning via TP.

Plagueis detests lightsaber duels and is a big admirer of achieving his goals with using the force. I'm pretty sure these two would simply throw everything they have at each other with the force where Valky would prevail.

Sounds like scripting to me.

Plags is also the guy who breaks necks and impales bitches with his righteous fists. He'll do what he has to in any situation.

Not disregarding that but all I'm seeing here is debating for the sake of debating. We all know Vitiate would win here.

Not at all. What I'm saying is that Plagueis is comparable to Sidious in power, faster and more combat ready than Valkorion. Not seeing it as a clear victory for Valkorion, or a victory at all.

Originally posted by Sinious
Vitiate is a dude who barely leaves his throne room and only engages in force fights when someone challenges him. The best speed feat a character of this nature could get is reacting to who ever faces him. Using that against him is illogical imo. So far, he didn't have a single problem speed wise against anyone he fought and he actually walked up to HoT's saber before they fought even though he was weakened and still didn't have a problem catching up with his opponent's speed.
Everyone he fought is below Plagueis in speed.

Originally posted by Sinious
Obviously, Vitiate isn't winning via TP.
Agreed.

Originally posted by Sinious
Plagueis detests lightsaber duels and is a big admirer of achieving his goals with using the force. I'm pretty sure these two would simply throw everything they have at each other with the force where Valky would prevail.
Still, Plagueis is a superior duelist. This grants him an advantage when he gets close.

Plaguies shuts off Valkys' Midichlorians.

Plagueis wins until Valkorion can show me something other than bullshit TOR hype and nexus feats.

Originally posted by carthage
Plagueis wins until Valkorion can show me something other than bullshit TOR hype and nexus feats.

Can someone present a lightning or tutaminis feat for Plagueis?

This thread is amusing. I'll respond in about 5-6 hours. And don't talk shit about SWTOR Temp

Originally posted by Sinious
Can someone present a lightning or tutaminis feat for Plagueis? He doesn't need one. He blocks Valkorion's FL with a saber.

Now. Any feats that indicate Valkorion can match Plagueis's speed?

Like Tol Braga did?

Tol is a loser, though.

What puts Plagueis above Braga in tutaminis if he is featless?

Um..I haven't claimed any tutaminis feats for Plagueis. Read my previous post

EDIT: HUh, Tutaminis is also blocking with saber. Lame.


Plagueis is Sidious tier Force user. Braga is trash tier.

Kek @ Sinious bending Stigma's shit back at him just like Mace did to Sidious

Braga and Plagueis are equals in this department so saying Braga is a loser is same as saying Plagueis is a loser.

Vitiate one-shots.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Kek @ Sinious bending Stigma's shit back at him just like Mace did to Sidious
Are you implying I shat on Sinious?

Originally posted by Sinious
Braga and Plagueis are equals in this department so saying Braga is a loser is same as saying Plagueis is a loser.

Vitiate one-shots.

Vitiate gets blitzed before he uses FL.

Sinious Stigma is trolling I told you he's been decaying for eons

I have been a rotten corpse. Not much room for decaying there. Also, you have failed Valkorion for the last time, Skillz.

Plagueis's Force power is on Sidious tier. He is also faster and has better combat prowess.

If there are no arguments showing how Vitiate compares to that, I think we can safely assume Plagueis has an edge in a straigh-up-fight. GG.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Sinious Stigma is trolling I told you he's been decaying for eons And lost at even in a game of trolling tbh. How far will he fall I wonder.

Stigma, in 5-6 hours I will begin an exhaustive post in the hopes that it will revitalize you

Originally posted by Sinious
And lost at even in a game of trolling tbh. How far will he fall I wonder.
When I reach you at the bottom, you will know. But that's not going to happen anytime soon

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Stigma, in 5-6 hours I will begin an exhaustive post in the hopes that it will revitalize you
I am looking forward to it, young one.

Originally posted by Stigma
Vitiate gets blitzed before he uses FL. HoT has pretty decent speed feats himself. Vitiate while weakened, was standing literally an inch away from HoT's saber and managed to not get blitzed. Plagueis would have to be 100 times faster than HoT to blitz Vitiate which he isn't since his speed feats aren't 100 times better than HoT's.

Originally posted by Sinious
HoT has pretty decent speed feats himself. Vitiate while weakened, was standing literally an inch away from HoT's saber and managed to not get blitzed. Plagueis would have to be 100 times faster than HoT to blitz Vitiate which he isn't since his speed feats aren't 100 times better than HoT's.
Um how do you come up with 100 times faster? Proof for these calculations?

Plagueis is sufficiently fast enough (as if, being a peer of Sidious in speed is not fast enough) to close the distance and cut Vitiate in half. GG

Has Vitiate moved so fast on-lookers only saw a red lightning bolt? Plaguies also has moved so fast that his Droid, who can see blaster bolts in slow-mo, saw Plaguies as a blur. Blaster Bolts have varying speeds on what source you go with, some being as low as just 10 meters per second to being as fast as the speed of Light itself! However, using the Movies Blaster Bolts have a speed of roughly 130 MPH I believe.

@Stigma, I understand you're trolling, but @Temp, I feel that you underestimate the general lack of common sense of some of your disciples.

Originally posted by Stigma
Um how do you come up with 100 times faster? Proof for these calculations?

Plagueis is sufficiently fast enough (as if, being a peer of Sidious in speed is not fast enough) to close the distance and cut Vitiate in half. GG 1) Obviously its not based on actual calculation. Point is, if you wanna make that claim(that Plag blitzes), you'll have to calculate that yourself and prove Plagueis is that much faster than HoT.
2) Peer of which incarnation of Sidious? IIRC, their speed were equal way before ROTS so I have no reason to believe Sidious was anywhere near his ROTS self during that part of the novel.

@Stigma

I'll point out a flaw in your logic and leave a hint.

Aryn Leener have one of the best speed-oriented feats in the lore so far. However, Darth Malgus was able to contend with her on equal footing in spite of lacking in feats in the matters of speed in comparison to her in general.

If you are smart enough, you will get the memo.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Aryn Leener have one of the best speed-oriented feats in the lore so far. However, Darth Malgus was able to contend with her on equal footing in spite of lacking in feats in the matters of speed in comparison to Leener.

Being able to contend with her is a feat for Malgus though.

Originally posted by Sinious
Being able to contend with her is a feat for Malgus though.
Of-course! But the intended message is different. Lets see if member Stigma gets it.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
@Stigma, I understand you're trolling, but @Temp, I feel that you underestimate the general lack of common sense of some of your disciples.
My playful word sparrings with you and Sinious may appear to be petulant, but I have greater aim in mind. For now, know only that "my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways."

Genuine discussion on why we should have Valkorion in such a a high esteem is a welcome one.

Originally posted by Sinious
1) Obviously its not based on actual calculation. Point is, if you wanna make that claim(that Plag blitzes), you'll have to calculate that yourself and prove Plagueis is that much faster than HoT.
2) Peer of which incarnation of Sidious? IIRC, their speed were equal way before ROTS so I have no reason to believe Sidious was anywhere near his ROTS self during that part of the novel.
1) Understood. What we need to remember, however, is from what we see neither HoT or Viti approach Plags in speed.

2) Covered by Merchant, really.

Originally posted by Stigma
1) Understood. What we need to remember, however, is from what we see neither HoT or Viti approach Plags in speed.

2) Covered by Merchant, really.

1) They don't have to approach him to avoid getting blitzed. Especially since we've established that Vitiate is one-shoting this without any trouble.

2) Nothing she said proves the "Plagueis blitzes" argument bro.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
@Stigma

I'll point out a flaw in your logic and leave a hint.
LOL! Ahh, classic LeGenD.

@Stigma I'll discuss with you in a good 4-5 hours

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
@Stigma I'll discuss with you in a good 4-5 hours
Good. Where I live it will be around 1 a.m., though, so I will read it tomorrow.

eggs

Originally posted by Stigma
Good. Where I live it will be around 1 a.m., though, so I will read it tomorrow. pussy

shit ur a polish infidel that's right

Originally posted by |King Joker|
pussy Exactly what I thought. The Stigma I know would be showering in whiskey at that hour of the day.

ukokXOTFabM

Plaguies can outpace bolts at full body speeds, what's Leeners' best speed feat?


EDIT: Never mind IK what you're talking about. That's sorta unquantifiable tbh.

Originally posted by Sinious
1) They don't have to approach him to avoid getting blitzed.
I had some faith in you and your general wisdom to see that I use "blitz" as an indication of greater speed of Plaguies and a playful remark to get you engaged. You have failed my expectations.

Again, as I have stated in previous posts, greater speed is a sufficient advantage for Plagueis in a combat scenario, especially given that Vitiate cannot dish out anything similar.


Originally posted by Sinious
Especially since we've established that Vitiate is one-shoting this without any trouble.
I'd like to see you develop an argument to support this


Originally posted by Sinious
2) Nothing she said proves the "Plagueis blitzes" argument bro.
Moving as fast as lightning bolt >>> walking slowly towards a saber

Originally posted by Stigma
I had some faith in you and your general wisdom to see that I use "blitz" as an indication of greater speed of Plaguies and a playful remark to get you engaged. You have failed my expectations.

Blitzing usually means moving faster than the other side can perceive/react to. And if your argument doesn't involve Vitiate not being able to react at all, it means that he still has time to cast lightning and since Plagueis = Braga in tutamins, Vitiate one-shots him despite being slower.

Not when Vitiate can oneshot him.

You've already made that argument for me when you said "feats or gtfo"

I'm not talking about right before he dies, I'm talking about the beginning of the fight where HoT can't blitz him despite being in this position.

WHY AM I BEING IGNORED?!

Anyways I just checked up on Leneers' speed, she's really impressive. She moves in a Millisecond if I'm reading this correctly, so if she moves even 1 meter in a Millisecond she can move at Hypersonic speeds....

Originally posted by The Merchant
WHY AM I BEING IGNORED?!
Sorry I was too busy kicking Stigma's ass.

Depends on starting distance, really. If it's far enough, Plagueis may opt to use his Force powers entirely instead of drawing his blade, and that's a battle he's bound to lose.

@Stigma, I sacrificed the blood of approximately 29 SWTORians to post this:

Plagueis Blitzes Kek

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Well then you'd have to give in to the speedblitz logic, which is generally inconsistent considering Luke (Someone who was faster then Sidious in their duel as of DE) couldn't blitz Lumiya/Desann, and there's numerous other cases in which force users like Yoda/Luke/Vader didn't outright blitz their opponents. All we have in support of blitzlogic is Sidious blitzing the B-Team (which apparently, correct me if I'm wrong, is now due to surprise rather than speed via new content,) and Sidious moving faster than Maul could visibly perceive in the novel adaptation of their fight. Which is again an inconsistent definition of blitzing given that Roan Shryne saw Vader move faster than he could perceive and faster than anyone other than Yoda, yet was still able to fight Vader without getting lolblitzed, as well as many other relatively mook-y jedi that were featless and could react to Vader just fine.

Plagueis is more combat-ready than Valkorion

This is a blast from the past indeed. This notion has pretty much been put to rest as soon as SWTOR, and specifically SOR, came out. Vitiate whilst possessing Master Surro was directly fighting on the battlefield, casually stomping Lana Beniko and combating one of the most powerful warriors in the Galaxy, aka a protag and his or her trusty companion. Even in vanilla SWTOR Vitiate possessed Kira Carsen and fought head-to-head with the Hero of Tython, his first action to run at the Hero with his Lightsaber. He's obviously understanding of the ways of a fighter/warrior. It's not much different than Talzin, tbh. She's evidently fairly competent in her use of the lightsaber and combat, but is infinitely more at home utilizing her immense force powers to annihilate her foes. Speaking of which...

Plagueis can tank Valky's powers and saber him to death

This is the dude who can easily annihilate four of the most powerful jedi in the Galaxy, while not trying to kill them, while also diverting significant efforts to hold back Vaylin's powers, and destroy their lightsabers in the process. Plagueis hasn't a notable lightning or tutaminis feat to speak of. This is the dude who was considered by the Wrath to be infinitely more powerful than the dread masters, (who could destroy whole fleets with their fear power,) was universally believed to be far too powerful for Revan or the Coalition to handle, considered to be too powerful for the jedi or the sith to stop, etc. This is the dude who, as a disembodied spirit, telepathically subjugated the population of Ziost, then afterward telepathically subjugated the additional jedi and republic soldiers sent by the Republic. This is the dude who, despite not being at his full power, utterly annihilated the planet of Ziost, then proceeded to consume that additional power into himself. As Emperor Valkorion, he's no longer diverting his power to hold back Vaylin, so he'll only be even more powerful. Plagueis hasn't shown anything close to these levels of power, (that he can access without an intense ritual and with Sidious's help.)

Throwing The Bone of Logic

On the whole, one could seriously argue that Nyriss's lightning and Braga's tutaminis is more powerful than Plagueis's, if we go by a feats-only paradigm. When we include logic and reason, however, with Plagueis being implied as pre-DLOTS amp Sidious's equal, we can conclude he's an immensely powerful sith lord, with top tier lightning, TK, and power on the whole. That said, this also applies for Valkorion. Valkorion is considered to be, as aforementioned, infinitely more powerful than the fleet-subduing Dread Masters, far more powerful than Revan or anyone else in the Galaxy, and powerful enough that neither the efforts of the Sith nor the Jedi would be enough to stop him from consuming the Galaxy. Plagueis is absolutely one of the top-tier force users, but I sincerely doubt he'd last against Valkorion's powers, much less overcome them to the point where he can lolrun up to him and stab him to death. There's a reason Sidious chose not to loltank Talzin's force attacks and instead chose to battle with the force, despite being just as if not more powerful. When someone is just as powerful as another force user, but far more skilled, it'd still require all their strength to overcome those powers. And Valkorion is very noticeably more powerful than Plagueis, feats and hype considered.

Skillz, the major flaw in your speed argument is that Luke says he holds back to avoid brushes with the Dark Side, since in DE his attempts to unleash his full power caused him to fall. He also went briefly fell during his duel with Caedus.

Against Desann he wasn't going to go all out and massacre him due to morals.

Last I checked, Plagueis didn't have morals.

Plagueis absorbed blaster bolts and liquefied a persons with his lightning afterward. He can easily absorb Vitiate's lightning dodge it or deflect it.

/ignores Vader, /ignores Sidious not blitzing people who are actually at his level in power, (aka Talzin, her best speed feat is saber-locking Windu, who normally operates at Maul-tier speed, who in turn Sidious can supposedly lolblitz.)

Originally posted by carthage
Plagueis absorbed a blaster bolt and liquefied a persons bones. He can easily absorb Vitiate's lightning dodge it or deflect it.

I'd rather await Stigma's trolling, tbh. Maybe your dad will make an appearance too

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
/ignores Vader, /ignores Sidious not blitzing people who are actually at his level in power, (aka Talzin, her best speed feat is saber-locking Windu, who normally operates at Maul-tier speed, who in turn Sidious can supposedly lolblitz.)

Oh yeh, try speed blitz someone who can dissipate at will. That's a solid idea, wonder why Sheev never thought of that.

I like that you're dismissing every other speed blitz in the mythos as if no one else has ever tried

Originally posted by Selenial
Oh yeh, try speed blitz someone who can dissipate at will. That's a solid idea, wonder why Sheev never thought of that.

I like that you're dismissing every other speed blitz in the mythos as if no one else has ever tried

Can't think to dissipate when he can move faster than you can react. And I completely understand your refutement on the point of Vader

Such as? The majority of them are either against utter fodder or non force users, and even those are inconsistent.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Can't think to dissipate when he can move faster than you can react. And I completely understand your refutement on the point of Vader

Such as? The majority of them are either against utter fodder or non force users, and even those are inconsistent.

So you want Sidious to engage his lightsaber and dart across the cave, slicing Talzin down before she can react... Or nothing? Is your definition of speedblitz literally "before they can react/move"?

Repeat the point about Vader tbh, cba to re-read your post mmm

So Krayt blitzing 4 master level Imperial Knights all trained to fight in perfect unison? Which does that fall under?

Originally posted by Selenial
So you want Sidious to engage his lightsaber and dart across the cave, slicing Talzin down before she can react... Or nothing? Is your definition of speedblitz literally "before they can react/move"?

Repeat the point about Vader tbh, cba to re-read your post mmm

So Krayt blitzing 4 master level Imperial Knights all trained to fight in perfect unison? Which does that fall under?

Why not? Any other definition in the context of this thread would be pointless, as if it's not before Valkorion can react, it'll be too late.

Vader moved faster than Roan Shryne's eyes could perceive, and faster than anyone other than Yoda. Despite this, Shryne fought just fine against Vader, as well as many other "speed-featless" force users.

Kek they have no speed feats, they're useless fodder.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Kek they have no speed feats, they're useless fodder.

Before I reply to the rest, if they're fodder for lack of Speed Feats, what's Vitiate again?

Originally posted by Selenial
Before I reply to the rest, if they're fodder for lack of Speed Feats, what's Vitiate again?

Thank you for understanding the point I'm trying to get across to Stigma, it's time to see if he gets it.

It depends on how far, as I said. If it's close range, Plagueis' combination of brutal lightsaber attacks and Force powers could net him a win. If it's far away enough, Plagueis is limited to using the Force, which he won't be able to beat Vitiate with.

Originally posted by SunRazer
It depends on how far, as I said. If it's close range, Plagueis' combination of brutal lightsaber attacks and Force powers could net him a win. If it's far away enough, Plagueis is limited to using the Force, which he won't be able to beat Vitiate with.
I agree and tbh this position more or less mirros my views on this fight. (Minus obvious playful banter I played for a bit.)

Where I differ with your approach Razer is that I see Plagueis's speed advantage as sufficient for him to close the gap and grant his the majority in all-out.


@ Sinious
Originally posted by Sinious
Sorry I was too busy kicking Stigma's ass.
Your triumphalism is premature, as are your other... activities.

Are you implying Sinious prematurely ejaculates?

Originally posted by Stigma
Where I differ with your approach Razer is that I see Plagueis's speed advantage as sufficient for him to close the gap and grant his the majority in all-out.
So Vitiate's powers are useless?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Are you implying Sinious prematurely ejaculates?
That would be an insidious tactic. I do not subscribe to such measures, Sir. uhuh.


Meh,. I somehow cannot edit my previous post, so I'll repost a part of it here:


Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Throwing The Bone of Logic

On the whole, one could seriously argue that Nyriss's lightning and Braga's tutaminis is more powerful than Plagueis's, if we go by a feats-only paradigm.
Not at all. Nyriss’s FL was amped by DS nexus. Plus, she never overcame with it anyone even comparable to Plagueis’s tier.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
When we include logic and reason, however, with Plagueis being implied as pre-DLOTS amp Sidious's equal, we can conclude he's an immensely powerful sith lord, with top tier lightning, TK, and power on the whole. That said, this also applies for Valkorion.
Agreed.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
So Vitiate's powers are useless?
You are useless and you have failed Vitiate once againuhuh

Originally posted by Stigma

@ Sinious

Your triumphalism is premature, as are your other... activities. You applied trolling logic which is something you always do and I beat in your own game. I think I deserve the glory.

Isn't Valkorion unknown?

Stigma in approximately 3-4 hours you will be plastered to a wall as SWTORians fire cumshots at you

<------- Is starting his response. What power source should I use this time? I was thinking orphan tears, Bane's Nexus, or ILS's Maul wank

Why would you waste your time here, Skillz? We've already established that Vitiate one shots this.

You should create a thread worthy of your attention and put someone up against Valkorion who won't be so easily defeated.

Nah. Raising Stigma out of the ashes is a much better idea.

You want him to join the cause?

kek @ Stigma joining the cause. I'm just helping a bro out, here.

Boring tbh.

>"Even at his weakest, you are no match for the Emperor."
>HoT defeats Vitiate at his weakest
>HoT is no match for Revan

Totes legit, mang. Agreed on everything else, tho.

WAit where is 1st quote said

Imp SoR before the fight with Revan.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
>"Even at his weakest, you are no match for the Emperor."
>HoT defeats Vitiate at his weakest
>HoT is no match for Revan

Totes legit, mang. Agreed on everything else, tho.

Kek