Let me open your eyes, Matrix is real and I can prove it, please read!!

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Krazz
I am not crazy, I know for a fact that we live in a Matrix. I am gathering a small force together to set free the people, you want the proof we live in a Matrix, join the group and help us break out of it!!

If you have proof too, send evidence to [email protected] with the subject "Matrix"

hayden's minx
I have what it takes crazy dude.

jimbo3
Lets hear what proof you have. Crazy Krazz. wacko

yerssot
and they say I need my pills wink

Augeybana
I think people take movies too far.

BackFire349
if we live in a matrix then why are their defects like yourself?

Krazz
Every program has defects, they are called glitches, defects like me are free because your minds are free to choose thoughts inside the parameters deemed normal, where people like me, 'defects' like me are able to choose thoughts outside of teh parameters, and not be told that they are insane, because our minds and our eyes are open!

Augeybana
Yeah when am I gonna learn Kung Fu.

Raz
Yeah, when?

yerssot
!Warning!

Watching The Matrix: Reloaded can cause you not to think straight anymore.

____

This warning was brought to you by the National Preservation of Yerssot Insanity, USA, New York City

zimbo
''When you'll open your eyes!''

Krazz
mock, laugh, make jokes, obey what you are beng told, to stop your minds believing that what I am saying is the truth.

Dexx
and you guyz never belived me! the state is experimenting on civillians again!

Krazz
Why don't you look at the facts. w ww.KGLA.Bravepages.co m (you will obviously have to remove the spaces, I needed to send the link without the boards knowing it was a link, because I have to have high message status to send links. See, put in 2 spaces, outside of the computers parameters for hyperlink, just like you closed up people) a simple games site until you click the R on others, then figure out the simple way to find the text, an see just some of my proof, because I have a lot of proof, more solid that that posted onto this web site!

cookies2006
It does make me think about it. OK where are the agents?

Krazz
Who mentioned agents?

cookies2006
I just did.

yerssot
then proof it already before they pull my plug big grin

Dexx
any...non-pc proofs krazz?

cookies2006
Anything is better than nothing.

Dexx
that's right...i'm convinced cookie! so...how do i get out??

yerssot
uhoh! I feel something at the back of my head! quick!
I don't want to die like this!

Phoenix
I want a long black flappy coat!! If I join your army, do I get one? And sunglasses... and an automatic rifle... BamBAmBamBAmBAmABm!!!

Sometimes I think I might need angermanagement... Nah! Just give my rifle!

mah
haha, quite the joker aren't you? must be a really big defect in the system with someone like you there.

yerssot
now now, we musn't laugh with something as serious as this!

Krazz, if you can free me of this matrix, I'll join your site
let's say you unplug me around noonish? we can get some dinner then

Dexx
*carefully waits for computer to start typing itself*
maybe and 'outsider' will wanna find me.

yerssot
I doubt they want you dexx stick out tongue

Dexx
what are you talking about? i'm probably the only one who could stand that 'breakfast of the champions' stick out tongue

yerssot
from that funny website

can't proof you're correct either


That's why men landed on the moon... oh wait! that was a conspiracy too! roll eyes (sarcastic)


no, since you started talking about a computerised scene and in real life, submarines can stay weeks under water ... woops!


Now you're confusing the aliens with the matrix laughing out loud


Please! People know for some time now what is wrong at that place!


This could explain why you should be in a restraining jacket yes


you're right! you totally made me believe you're a crazy fool

Dexx
laughing out loud totally unsocial behaviour! off with his head!

yerssot
Nevah! I'll follow the white rabbitbig grin

Dexx
ignorance is bliss...remember?

yerssot
not at all

BackFire349
strange.... with all this knowledge about the real world that he has, you'd think he' pick a better place to speak out then a message board with only about 30 regular members.

zimbo
leave the guy alone, may be he run away from the mental hospital and got to see a cinema for a first time in his life

KidRock
I think Krazz escaped the mental hospital and saw The Matrix was the last thing he saw before they strapped him in the jacket put him on the short bus and broght him back to the looney house.....Anyway I have proof the matrix is FAKE. If the matrix was real the "agents" wouldnt alow a movie to be made due to the fact someone might try to stop it...so in short whoever thinks the matrix is real is fat and has no friends.

Tex
Nice imagination.smile

Darth Vicious
Krazzy im still looking but i see no proof, where is it? or do u have agents behind u, i think u mixed the red and blue pills to make the green one that brings crazyness in ur case Krazzyness, i bet u go around wearing a trench coat, right? R u the 1 or #2? lol

Captain REX
This is way too far-fetched and absurd. The Matrix does not exist, it is a film for entertainment. Duh!

Tex
What if we really are in a Matrix?

And the Matrix realised that Krazz was on to them?

And they specifically created the Matrix movies to make Krazz look crazy!

Now it all makes sense!

laughing out loud

Dexx
oh shit....i'm seeing that green code again. ooh!..ladies in red...hot mommas!!

mah
failed abortions is apparently the matrix's biggest glitch

finti
This is probably the most cunning spam I have seen so far

Chaos
ROFL... hahah Krazz lives up to his name wink
But hey, makes you wonder huh ... roll eyes (sarcastic)

Dexx
yeah..i FINALLY understand cipherwink

Reveiller
it might make you wonder but we would all know anyways

Krazz if we are in a matrix and supposebly u are "free" we are we all located? you should know and why not tell the world why just us?

Dexx
why should he know? he just knows we're all trapped. The question is...if the 'supervisers' know that he knows..wouldn't he be considered the most dangerous person in the..'system'? Or maybe they're just relying on that fact that no-one belives him...yeah, that's it.

Captain REX
Maybe we should all follow the white rabbit and see how far the rabbit hole goes... laughing out loud

zimbo
Don't even try or you'll spend rest of your life in the mental hospital

Captain REX
laughing out loud

chico23
Crap, I'm a Matrix fan. Does this mean I'm affiliated with this assclown? J/K laughing out loud

Tevesh
see what happens when parents smoke things they shouldn't smoke when they're pregnant?

HotPizza
Surely if we were really in a matrix the machines would restrict the creation of a film that could open up so many questions and create the potential for so many people plugged in to question there existance.

Ushgarak
Or maybe that is how they want you to think...

The point is, of course, that if we were in the Matrix there would be NO way to prove it unless an outsider brings us out. That is rather the concept. Whatever shortcomings and glitches there iare in the system we would be conditioned not to perceive.

Rin
You people are so funny... in that good way that people speak of so often...

And has anyone noticed Krazz has pretty much stopped posting in this thread? Perhaps he was finally discouraged by all your mockery.

Not that I care..

Tevesh
yep...you got Ush. just like plato's cave parable

cookies2006
Well if anybody meets an outsider tell me and i'll follow you.

Tevesh
me too!

justinday15
Me three!

Rin
What they said.

Mithrandir
someone read matrix and philisophy, didnt we Tevesh?

cookies2006
Soory im not so smart.......... what is philisophy?

BEST TRINITY
Who Knows. Why we had dejavu in our lives. Im always had a question in my mind why dejavus. I always doubt of this. Can we really c a short episodes of our past lives?????

General Kaliero
I get prophetic dreams. Does that mean I'm only half-plugged? Is my neck loose?


Someone screw it back on.

Oh, and I searched that website on Dogpile after going to it. Object that came up the most had to do with MENTAL HOSPITAL PATIENTS. Does that mean something?

Reveiller
the matrix philosphy kicks ass its really interesting

everything that platos says on the allegory of tha cave makes sense
everything that hilary putnam said in brain in a vat makes sense
robert nozicks experience machine makes sense
peter ungers evil scientist makes sense also and all the other ones u should read them its cool i made a paper on them and i took a philosophy class and we looked at that 2

Ushgarak
Jesus, you are doing well if you actually understand Putnam. That's a very basic analysis they give of his work there, as they thrmselves admit, though I am sure you studied him in more detail in your class.

For those of you who don't know, Putnam had an interesting take on the 'What if we are all just brains in a vat and none of this is real?' question.

The thing he posed was that if we WERE brains in a vat, would we be able to truthfully SAY that we were? And he rather neatly goes on to say that we could not.

It gets complicated there, but he points out basicallly that just because someone says something it does not necessarily means the person understands what he is saying... crap, I'll have to give examples now...

Right, something a person says can be nonsense, that is obvious. If I all a bed a chair, that is nonsense, because the bed is a bed, not a chair. And if I say the word 'flargenabbleniblick', that is nonsense because there is no such thing.

But the THIRD way to be nonsensical is the important one here. Say there WAS such a thing as a 'flargenabbleniblick' and I just didn't know it, thinking it was a nonsense word. Someone, who did know what it was, coming into the room to hear me say it would think "Ah! He is talking about flargenabbleniblicks!" He might even come over and ask me what my favourite flargenabbleniblick is, and I would be bewildered.

So the point is that although I APPEARED to be making sense to this person, I was actually talking nonsense. I didn't know what a flargenabbleniblick was, I would have used the word whether it existed or not. Putnam called this a lack of 'causal connection'. You cannot use a word meaningfully unless your brain has a causal connection to what the word actually means. So if it turns out that a flargenabbleniblick is actually a type of drink, I cannot have any causal connection to its true meaning until someone tells me that.

ANYWAY. Putnam's point is that a brain in a vat experiencing only simulated happenings has NO causal conneciton to anything in the real world. He has never been there, everything he has seen has been simulated. He might SAY "I am just a brain in a jar" but he has no causal connection to brains, jars, or even, really, 'am'. He could not successfully imagine a real world with brains in jars- would be would be imagining is a simulated world with brains and jars. FOr all he knows, real-world brains might be triangles.

And so it is in The Matrix. No-one in the Matrix has any causal connection in thr real world. As Morpheus says, "No-one can be TOLD what the Matrix is." He is right- for people that have lived in it (people born in Zion could be told any time). Morpheus can explain to Neo all he likes what it is, but Neo's brain is completely incapable of truly understanding what it is until he sees it and experiences 'real' and makes the causal connection. And before that point he could say "I am just a naked body in a pod attached to a computer Matrix'. but his brain won't be thinking of a real body in a real pod. It would be thinking of a computer simulation of a body in a computer simulation of a pod, which is conceptually a different thing. It CANNOT think of a real body in a real pod. It does not know how. It does not even realise that it cannot do it.

Mind you, that is all very interesting but it never struck me as greatly relevant. All Putnam says is that you would not TRULY understand what the real world is like. He doesn't say you could never know that the one you were in was false.

yerssot
like the cave of ... (big greek philosopher, forgot his name for a minute)
and
descartes: "je pense, je suis"

mechmoggy
Well I think this is a Matrix cus when I dropped a glass this morning my kitchen floor did a weird rippling thing before the glass broke.

The real question is, "do I want to get out", to which I say no. My life is pretty kewl thanks. stick out tongue

Ushgarak
'cogito ergo sum' is the more universal way descartes put it.

But what you have to rememeber about Descartes is that he was a. a mathematician and b. a hardcore Christian, both of which severely biased his thinking.

mechmoggy
Holy Calculus!

alaba
what if what we see isnt what truly is? your perception of the color red might be blue to me and maybe the world exists in a universal mind. maybe there's no physical existence but our minds projecting our experiences through our eyes. we touch but really do we touch anything?

BEST TRINITY
We really have to analize our lives coz there is some things that we have to disci=over by ourselfes. We always do what other tell us to do... like Neo with the oracles. Think about it we follows our parents, teachers, neightbors, friends rules, coz this is the way the the persons of ythe past told them to do and they tought us that rules. So.. we r living by the words of the past. who know for surely they were RIGHT????????????????????????????????? HUH????? Maybe we should start to belive what we want to belive about the world....... as we know or wanted to know.

alaba
MR KRAZZ, MY NAME IS ALABA, AGENT ALABA, IF YOU ARE PREPARED TO GET THIS SILLY IDEA OF YOUR HEAD THAN WE ARE WILLING TO WIPE THE SLATE CLEAN, GIVE YOU A FRESH START, AND DON'T EVEN DARE TO GIVE ME THE FINGER OR ASK FOR A ****ING PHONE CALL!

Ushgarak
Alaba, go read Descartes' 'Meditations' if you want to read about that. Though if you check we did just cover that subject in detail!

yerssot
finally got the name:
Plato
The cave of plato

think that fits in here nicely

Ushgarak
Yes, that just got mentioned as well, yerss, two posts before where you forgot his name.

perceptionist
Hello all,
I'm at work right now so I haven't had the oppurtunity to read through this whole thread yet. I just wanted to throw a quick 2cents in. In a way, we all exist in a "matrix" so to speak. Not the one from the movie of course but something along those lines. You see, its pretty obvious that everything you know to be "reality" can be broken down into numbers. Binary for example: 1's and zero's, on and off's, yes's and no's, red pills and blue pills. Theres patterns of these numbers, systems of patterns and so on.... I apologize if this all has been said here already. When I get home, I'll have to come back and elaborate. Bad news Krazz, there really is no "escape". Theres arelady "systems" functioning to prevent anyone or anything from surpassing "them." Some may think theres ways, but just like in the movie, its already figured in as part of the "control" system.

All feedback is welcome!
Talk to you guys later (or yesterday.... hehehe.....)

cookies2006
man you understudy's know more than what i thought.Good job.

BEST TRINITY
yes it is possible

The Serpent
We definately exist in the Matrix.

... Unless you are one of those people who likes to pretend that they have "free will".

Ushgarak
Of course we have free will, it is the lynchpin of the film.

The Serpent

Ushgarak
Obviously you were not paying attention to the second film. Everyone has choice- that is the point. The ONLY things the Oracle can see are those things ALREADY decided by these people who have these choices. Anything BEYOND the boundary of choice, like whether Trinity died, is not known sand cannot be seen. And as the Architect describes, without free will there could be no Matrix.

The Prophecy is manipulation. That is compatiable with free well. Destiny and Fate are both presented as things where choices have already been made. That is free will in process! Algorithm is attempted prediction. That is also free will as it is not certain.

There is most certainly free will there.

The Serpent

Ushgarak
Your babbling about atoms is irrelevant to determinism and, in any case, ignores Chaos Theory which tore a lot of that stuff to pieces.

Sentient choice IS free will and if you do not know that then you really need to get back to basics.

The entire rest of your post can be answered if you do me the courtesy of reading my one before again.

The Serpent

Ushgarak
You are just repeating yourself now.

Chaos Theory has led Hawking to comment that God DOES play dice after all, for a start, and it is the only scientific branch that can reasonably be applied to philsophical determinism.

I cannot believe you would compare the acitivity of sentient life (which science cannot define) with the moon. It is a broken comparison, like comparing blue with square. I am a sentient being, THAT is why I have free will, and the film re-iterates this in many places. Sentient thought process is superior to the mere analysis of atoms and it is very blind to think otherwise. I do not claim to be an expert, though. I would say there is a lot we do not know. But YOU are the one who wants to deal in certainties so clearly you wish to be more of an expert than I.

Every single thing you mention from the film that you think proves there no free will I alrerady pointed out in my previous post is actually free will after all. Morpheus is not a Fatalist in the way you think. This brand of determinism relies on ALREADY MADE CHOICES. Which is what I already said. Already made choices do not impinge upon free will at all, in fact they depend on them.

And the Prophecy was wrong, wasn't it, so what sort of fatalism was that? Neo did NOT return to the Source as the Prophecy said as he chose not to. The only parts of his destiny that were certain were the ones the Architect had manipulated to be. Manipluation is NOT determinism, it is simply the clash of free wills.

Thw Laws of Physics are under continual question and have bog all to do with sentience. You have a right to be a fatalist, of course, but your thoughts appear to only be half-formed and so easily dismissed. Still, maybe that was inevitable, huh?

The latest Matrix film is the VINDICATION of free will against what appeared to be a deterministic world. As soon as the Oracle said she could not look beyond choices already made this was so. So it is not a film compatible with your beliefs.

The Serpent

Ushgarak
"Perhaps you will demonstrate your half-formed ability to dismiss the Laws of Physics for us then???"

Jesus, WHAT an arrogant statement! You assume the laws of physics state we cannot have free will- well I know several highly qualified physicists who would find that a laughable amount of bullcrap. Your dismissal of choas theory as mere randomness is kindergarten as well.

You also seem to be trying to make out that just because SOME things are beyond our control we have no free will. A five year old could see the fault in that.

"Asserting your point <> proving your point"

A very immature way to try and make yourself clever and a laughable way to attack my points by quoting one sentence out of context.

Now, this is getting tiresome. This is not a forum for you to try and inflict your beliefs on the rest of us. If you want to think th laws of physics are on your side feel free, and I shall pity you. But the FILM is about the operation of free will and no matter what you say, the Prophecy said that Neo WOULD return to the Source and free Zion. He didn't. Prophecy buggered, even a reason for that given,(as opposed to all previous times when the Prophecy was the same and worked out just fine). The END.

This has now gone massively off-topic and I do not want this debate to ruin it any further; I have no intention of wasting time doing so myself. Go to a general philosophy discussion forum if you want and see how far you get there. This part of the thread is done with, attempts to keept his argument going will be edited.

The Serpent

Ushgarak
In the Matrix, everyone is just code so the only way to tell the difference would be by behaviour, which could be hard.

I do not see what that free will question has to do with the topic.

The Serpent
My point is that if it is impossible to tell the difference between a computer program and a human consciousness in what way is there a difference?

I think it is one of the major points that the films are trying to make. IMHO

Ushgarak
Of course there is a difference. Objective fact is superior to perceived fact. But this thread is about saying the Matrix is real. I still do ot see the relevance of ytour points to this.

The Serpent

Ushgarak
No, objective fact does NOT equal perceived fact; perception by its very nature is SUBJECTIVE. I do not really care about point of view in such a situation, Just because I do not see a difference does not mean there isn;t one. Objective fact is a VITAL concept in philosophy. There is an essay about it on the Matrix website; I recommend you go check it.

But I still fail to see the connection with the topic.

The Serpent

Ushgarak
Errr... no, I was saying that just because there is no subjective difference it does not mean there is no objective difference, and objective difference is superior. You do nto, btw, have ANY reason to believe in an objective fact that differs from your own subjective reasoning but when obersving others you will see these things clearly.
But... you know... I would love to talk about this all night but this is reallyt not the place to do it.

The Serpent

Ushgarak
No, look, I am sorry, I really am, but this thread must stay on topic.

cookies2006
Yep, the mod knows best.

julibug
Ok. Just read through all those previous posts, and now I have one giant headache! Anyway, I actually tried to go to the website that Krazz mentioned in one of the early posts. When I opened the site, a window popped up for me to download some program that appeared necessary to view the site properly. I clicked on it to download, and my antivirus software kicked in immediately with a warning that it tried to download a trojan virus onto my computer. Don't know what that was all about, but just a warning to the rest of you not to bother going to his website.

Member.
this is refering to the posts krazz posted on the first page. That is total BS. you don't know if we live in a fake world or not. actually, we do live in a fake world. the government is hiding things from the public that we the people deserve in our right to see and hear. that alone makes this a fake world and if we do live in a form of virtual reality, then i don't want to know about it.

julibug
the truth is out there

Celsius
back to the topic ladies!!!

if the matrix is real, then why isnt there any weird shit happening? in the movie there are huge man hunts fot the rebells and its all over the news, but in the worldd we live in everything SEEMS to be tip-top

Celsius
also i have some thing to say.
time is never ending, when the universe collapses on it's self it explodes in exactly the same way that it did last time, (action reaction) that means that time is also repetative, ( thus the word FATE), this means that choises do not exist, we only think that they do.
think about it, and tell me what you think

Member.
before each person is born, that person's "fate" is already printed in god's notebook, and the actions that person took is printed on god's other notebook too. so that person just acts out what is already on paper. when that person meets a crossroad, that person thinks he/she has a choice, but actually god already knows which road that person will choose. choosing to blink right now instead of 3 seconds later is written on that piece of godlike paper. so we don't have a choice after all, if we did, the universe would be in chaos. the chaos theory...hm...

Ushgarak
Pffft! Utterly flawered fatalism! But more to the point, not very on-topic. There is enough discussion about determinism elsewhere.

Celsius
If this is true (action-reaction), then everything repeats it's self. We make our choises based on the physics of time and gravity and etc. and since every thing explodes(refeer to my earlier post) in exacly the same way, then our choises are the same.
this may be farfeched, but i think that it is closer to the truth than you think.
im not saying i am right, and i am not trying to deny religion, what i am saying is what the oracle meant. FATE IS REAL IT EXISTS! even if only in gods notebook.

julibug
I honestly can't believe this thread is still going. It was started by someone who believes we live in the matrix. I don't think he was meaning it in an allagorical sense either. Philisophically, we could discuss how we live in a matrix in many ways. All this talk about fate/choice could go on forever, too. What are we really talking about on this thread???

Lord_Seth
nm

Neo is the SIX
OMY u ppl r so ignorant. I 100% agree with Kraaz. If u had ever picked up a bible and read significant parts of it, u would kno that all of us are like living inside the mind of God. Sure, it is not exactly like the matrix movie, with all the agents and blue pills. But this physical realm is very similar the the matrix in the movie. The spiritual realm is the real world, and when we die, we are "unplugged".

Ushgarak
Disturbing post, that... I think this thread serves no further purpose.

Lord_Seth
The Jews belive that every 50,000 years god destroy and rebuild the world - don't eve try to ask me how i know it you dont wanna know.

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