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Peak Incarnations.

All out.

Who wins?

Darth Malgus > Darth Venamis.
Darth Nox < Darth Plagueis.

I believe Nox's survivability and ability in general keeps her alive long enough for Malgus to kill Venamis. Then he helps Nox kill Plagueis.

I can see that happening. Malgus could stall Plagueis while Nox force rapes Venamis as well.

Nox isn't destroying Venamis in Force if Plagueis can't, lol.

When did Plagueis try to destroy Venamis with the force?

He made use of telekinesis in their fight, except he didn't try to destroy Venamis with the Force. That implies Venamis is powerful enough to not get destroyed since that'd be by far the simplest method for Plagueis to win. Venamis also used Concealment with relative success against Plagueis, so it's plausible that he's comparably powerful.

A mere force blow that wasn't even directed at Venamis is not the same with Darth Nox going all out on him imo.

There's a reason why Plagueis didn't try to dominate Venamis, lol.

And Nox isn't going to be able to go all-out against somebody who's that much faster than him.

I get what you're trying to say and I'm not saying Venamis is fodder, but there is no way that he would survive Plagueis' all out attacks.

Plagueis was challenged and he wanted to prove himself to his master(well to himself in a way). I believe he wanted to defeat Venamis in a duel for that reason and perhaps also cause it would be a more quiet way of doing it as Plagueis didn't want to get much attention at that point.

Nox had no problem fighting Malgus, he won't have a problem with Venamis as well. Especially since Venamis is not as fast as Plagueis.

His master was already dead at that point, lol.

And if he made use of telekinesis, it meant he was willing to integrate the Force into the duel, but he wasn't capable of using it to destroy Venamis.

Venamis was similarly fast to Plagueis, lol, and similarly agile. On top of that, he's more technically skilled than Nox, and Nox had aid against Malgus. Nox isn't beating Venamis.

Which is why I said to himself in a way? Dueling/martial arts etc. were all his master's game and he looked down at those things. Venamis was specifically trained by Tenebrous to defeat Plageuis so killing Venamis in a duel is a symbolic victory of his revolutionary ways against his master's old-fashioned mentality. At least, that's how I perceive it.

So your argument is that Venamis is on Plagueis' level in the force cause Plagueis severed a tree branch while fighting him? That by itself is in noway a proof of what you're claiming. This is reaching at its best.

So? Nox is similarly fast to Malgus who fought Aryn Leneer(whose speed feats are superior to Plagueis at this point of the novel).

Twisting my words isn't helping your argument. Plagueis severing the branch is irrelevant, it's the fact that he didn't try to attack Venamis in the Force.

Aryn Leneer is not even close to faster than Plagueis, lmfao. Venamis is well ahead of Malgus and Aryn in speed as well.

That wasn't my intention. And I gave a reason for him to not try it. Applying force to use the environment as an advantage is another thing imo.

TOR: Deceived disagrees with you.

Mind citing the relevant excerpts regarding Leneer/Plagueis

How is Aryn faster than Plagueis who, along with Venamis, ran and fought with such speed that their duel appeared to be lightning streaking through the forest understory? Plagueis also collapsed rubble on Tenebrous so quickly the latter almost didn't notice what was happening, fought armies alongside Tenebrous without being hit, and moved fast enough to appear as a blur to droids that could easily dodge blaster fire.

Aryn using a version of Moving Meditation could utilise milliseconds as if they were minutes. She percieved everything around her as if time itself had frozen. Her shipmate could see her doing multiple things at once in several different places. That is long before Aryn starts using the Dark Side to become stronger. Malgus still kicked her ass, before his DS oneness and long before his prime.

Yeh I would think that surpasses Plagueis and Venamis appearing as red lightning across a field.

Anyone want to quote and cite the relevant passages?

Originally posted by AncientPower
Aryn using a version of Moving Meditation could utilise milliseconds as if they were minutes. She percieved everything around her as if time itself had frozen. Her shipmate could see her doing multiple things at once in several different places. That is long before Aryn starts using the Dark Side to become stronger. Malgus still kicked her ass, before his DS oneness and long before his prime.

Yeh I would think that surpasses Plagueis and Venamis appearing as red lightning across a field. Exactly why she surpasses him in speed.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Anyone want to quote and cite the relevant passages?

The passage is a bit long so you can check it out in Legend's RT. Its the second speed feat.

thx bro

Ill take a peek

Malgus can beat Venamis with effort, as his showing with Plagueis was circumstantial somewhat. But he's way out of his depth with Plagueis who is faster, likely more skilled, and more masterful in ways of the force. Malgus gets killed in a short encounter there

So yeah team 2 should win everytime

Originally posted by The_Tempest
thx bro

Ill take a peek No problem.

Originally posted by carthage
Malgus can beat Venamis with effort, as his showing with Plagueis was circumstantial somewhat. But he's way out of his depth with Plagueis who is faster, likely more skilled, and more masterful in ways of the force. Malgus gets killed in a short encounter there

So yeah team 2 should win everytime LOL Malgus is easily Vader level. He isn't going down without a decent fight. Its likely that he'd survive longer than Venamis would against Nox. After all, Venamis is featless in the force department, amirite?

Originally posted by SunRazer
Twisting my words isn't helping your argument. Plagueis severing the branch is irrelevant, it's the fact that he didn't try to attack Venamis in the Force.

Aryn Leneer is not even close to faster than Plagueis, lmfao. Venamis is well ahead of Malgus and Aryn in speed as well.


Team 1. Plagueis makes it a win for them everytime.

A lot of Jedi have perceived events as if time was slowed/frozen, and that's not faster than the lightning feat.

Also, Aryn was strongest when she was centered, IIRC, not when she was enraged.