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"The upcoming 'Lucifer' series will find God dead and the erstwhile lord-of-Hell-turned-nightclub-impresario accused of the murder by no less than his own angelic brother, Gabriel. If Lucifer can prove his innocence, not only will his sins be forgotten, but he'll be welcomed back into the Silver City."
-Source


Preview:
http://i.imgur.com/SmOGnhM.jpg

http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/24131719_Vertigo_Preview_-_2015-015.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/24131720_Vertigo_Preview_-_2015-016.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/24131721_Vertigo_Preview_-_2015-017.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/24131722_Vertigo_Preview_-_2015-018.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/24131723_Vertigo_Preview_-_2015-019.jpg

-Coming this Fall.

Premise sounds like the God awful tv show premise with the nightclub. Written by a young adult novel writer. I have low expectations.

On the other hand it is Lucifer so...

My sentiments exactly.

I'll give it a go because it's supposed to be a continuation of Carey's epic run, but I certainly don't expect it to be on that level. Hopefully I'm wrong. /shrug

How is it a continuation of Carey's run? Lucifer left creation never to return at the end

I give this a 10% chance of success, at best. Hope I'm wrong

http://i.imgur.com/PNRbV4w.png


Dunno how they'll explain the particulars behind him coming back, but as his facial scars indicate: this is definitely Lucifer, post-issue #75.

Huh, If this still canon to the DC comic?

Hate that smug smirk he's got in most of these scenes

Oh wow, I assumed this was a reboot and not really related to Carey's run (given Lucifer is back and it talks about God being dead (despite Yahweh leaving) and talking about Gabriel) but yeah between the scar and it referencing Gabriel's arc in Hellblazer it seems to be a continuation.

Might have to pick this up because of that, and hope it's good. Also I wonder if they'll reference Mazikeen and the fact she has the vast majority Lucifer's power.

And what about Elaine taking over? And about Hell not being around anymore.. At least Heaven could have been rebuilt I guess. They have answered how Gabriel could be brought back, now they have to answer the others.

Well some form of Hell was around after Lucifer anyway as John went there in Hellblazer, but that could be an extension of the hell Elaine built for Remiel, or something The First of The Fallen made etc.

Basically there are ways around the Hell thing, but the Elaine thing is a bit weirder- unless she is the God that dies. But seeing as they're showing the scar, and referencing what happened to Gabriel in a story 20 years ago in a different book makes me kinda hopeful that Holly Black is at least trying to explain how this all fits.

So the really good run that everyone is referring to. Title/Issue #s/Author/etc.? I may be interested in reading it, but I really don't want to slog through ancillary stuff.

Mike Carey's 'Lucifer' #01-75:
http://www.comicvine.com/lucifer/4050-9744/

If you enjoyed 'Sandman', you'll love this series. Truly excellent.

Thanks. I'll look into it.

Originally posted by Galan007
"The upcoming 'Lucifer' series will find God dead and the erstwhile lord-of-Hell-turned-nightclub-impresario accused of the murder by no less than his own angelic brother, Gabriel. If Lucifer can prove his innocence, not only will his sins be forgotten, but he'll be welcomed back into the Silver City."
-Source


Preview:
http://i.imgur.com/SmOGnhM.jpg

http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/24131719_Vertigo_Preview_-_2015-015.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/24131720_Vertigo_Preview_-_2015-016.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/24131721_Vertigo_Preview_-_2015-017.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/24131722_Vertigo_Preview_-_2015-018.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/24131723_Vertigo_Preview_-_2015-019.jpg

-Coming this Fall. **** me he has the scar from makizeen on his face. This is gonna suck

Hahaha, this ****ing industry

The original series ended on the perfect note. Seeing as how they are going back to this is awful. Sign of the times I imagine.

It's comics. Not sure what you expect. If you want the perfect ending for a character, you have to be willing to jump off permanently at the time that seems best to you. Eventually it will all disappoint and/or morph into something unrecognizable from the original. It's hard - I know from experience - but the times I've managed it have been wonderful.

I'm currently just starting to read Carey's Lucifer run. I imagine, especially given this chatter, that I'll just stop once it's over and not even bother with this new stuff.

Originally posted by Digi
It's comics. Not sure what you expect. If you want the perfect ending for a character, you have to be willing to jump off permanently at the time that seems best to you. Eventually it will all disappoint and/or morph into something unrecognizable from the original. It's hard - I know from experience - but the times I've managed it have been wonderful.

I'm currently just starting to read Carey's Lucifer run. I imagine, especially given this chatter, that I'll just stop once it's over and not even bother with this new stuff. I won't give the new stuff a read unless I hear great things. I feel it's going to suck but you never know. My favorite character from lucifer wasn't even lucifer it was Fenris.

The first issue is slated for release on 12/16/15:
http://www.vertigocomics.com/comics/lucifer-2015/lucifer-1

http://i.imgur.com/O5Ddtuh.jpg


Fingers are crossed.

Is this canon to the original Lucifer series?

Yes. As was explained on the first page, this will be a continuation of Carey's series.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yes. As was explained on the first page, this will be a continuation of Carey's series. We both know they are going to muck this up. Carey ended this perfectly. I only trust him to continue it.

Only time I've ever agreed with Quan

Originally posted by quanchi112
We both know they are going to muck this up. Carey ended this perfectly. I only trust him to continue it. Pretty much.

Even if this ends up being good, it's still not going to be that good. The only people who can duplicate Carey's work are Carey himself, or Gaiman. Anyone else is just a pretender.

This is going to break my heart.

At least I could rationalize the awful tv show having nothing to do with carey's Lucifer.

Am I the only one that would rather have a story about Elaine struggling with her godhood, seeking advice on how to rule, and making allies and enemies throughout the multiverse?

I'd rather see that, sure.

Lucifer's only purpose was to remove the shackles of destiny, in which he succeeded. So why take a character without purpose and then throw him into a drama against his brother based on a misunderstanding that could easily be resolved?

Elaine's character, on the other hand, was never fully fleshed out and her story was left open-ended with her thrown into the role of God. She's a much more natural protagonist.

Originally posted by Cogito
Only time I've ever agreed with Quan Only time you've ever been right.

Originally posted by Astner
Am I the only one that would rather have a story about Elaine struggling with her godhood, seeking advice on how to rule, and making allies and enemies throughout the multiverse? I agree.

Originally posted by Astner
Lucifer's only purpose was to remove the shackles of destiny, in which he succeeded. So why take a character without purpose and then throw him into a drama against his brother based on a misunderstanding that could easily be resolved?

Elaine's character, on the other hand, was never fully fleshed out and her story was left open-ended with her thrown into the role of God. She's a much more natural protagonist.

I dunno, the series ended with Elaine becoming one with everything and running the universe as a part of it rather from above like Yahweh did, so if you kept that status quo there's not really any story to tell. I mean obviously a writer could change Elaine doing that but I'm just not sure how interesting of a story that would be if you stay true to the idea of God in Lucifer- as in completely omnipotent and omniscient.

That being said yeah, Lucifer's story ended in a very satisfying and definitive manner so this does seem pointless, and a different story set in the Vertigoverse following on from Lucifer would probably be better.

Another good example might have been Mazikeen- Lucifer left her with the majority of his power to do whatever she wanted, seeing where she went from there might have been interesting.

Originally posted by Astner
Lucifer's only purpose was to remove the shackles of destiny, in which he succeeded. So why take a character without purpose and then throw him into a drama against his brother based on a misunderstanding that could easily be resolved? The point of Lucifer stepping beyond the parameters of God's 'plan'(which, yes, would have removed him from the confines of Destiny's book) is that every decision he made from then on was his alone. His actions were no longer preordained by the design of a higher power... And that is subsequently the "ultimate freedom" Lucifer sought all along:
http://i.imgur.com/bchEJ6B.png


So him choosing to step back into someone else's creation and open up a hispter nightclub, already makes this new series hard to swallow. srsly

I also don't like this "the devil wears Prada" approach.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Another good example might have been Mazikeen
That would've been even better.

Some clarification in regards to Lucifer's creation.

http://i.imgur.com/thmTswe.png

Nice to have some additional clarification.

Originally posted by Galan007
The point of Lucifer stepping beyond the parameters of God's 'plan'(which, yes, would have removed him from the confines of Destiny's book) is that every decision he made from then on was his alone. His actions were no longer preordained by the design of a higher power... And that is subsequently the "ultimate freedom" Lucifer sought all along:
http://i.imgur.com/bchEJ6B.png


So him choosing to step back into someone else's creation and open up a hispter nightclub, already makes this new series hard to swallow. srsly They could always say since he stepped outside of that creation that he freed himself from those confines and that returning is all up to him since he went that scope to begin with. It doesn't matter to me this shouldn't be happening. The series should have been left alone. Ended on a great note.

Agree.

How the Hell does this mesh with DC merging Vertigo and mainstream DC continuity?? Are they just going to pretend Flashpoint didn't happen, and continue in the old Vertigo universe?

Most likely.

Several Vertigo titles don't mesh with Flashpoint anyway, so it shouldn't be a big deal.

It's still annoying. I want DC to just commit to a phucking continuity for more than six months.

Yeah the whole Flashpoint thing was very much 'Look we have Swamp Thing and Constantine again!' rather than making any actual sense. Especially didn't make sense as they both appeared in Brightest Day stuff just prior to Flashpoint.

So I guess if you wanted to rationalize it you could say it was just an emphasis in the panels on those DCU characters being emphasized/important again.

Personally I'd just ignore it, Vertigoverse was an entire multiverse unto itself anyway and is better being a similar but detached thing to mainstream DCU.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Yeah the whole Flashpoint thing was very much 'Look we have Swamp Thing and Constantine again!' rather than making any actual sense. Especially didn't make sense as they both appeared in Brightest Day stuff just prior to Flashpoint.

So I guess if you wanted to rationalize it you could say it was just an emphasis in the panels on those DCU characters being emphasized/important again.

Personally I'd just ignore it, Vertigoverse was an entire multiverse unto itself anyway and is better being a similar but detached thing to mainstream DCU. Constantine, Sandman, Timothy Hunter, and Swamp Thing, etc, were always part of the DCU, they just didn't interact much. It was in the same universe though.

Oh I know they were meant to, it's just that stopped making sense around the mid 90s, when Vertigo people aged normally and DCU worked on comic time. And then when the Vertigo stuff continued with Lucifer, it came up with it's own backstory and stuff that didn't gel at all with the DCU at the time.

Idk take it as you will, but I got to the point where I just take the Vertigo stuff as a similar but unconnected Multiverse to the mainstream DCU, with the event where they diverge being Moore's Swamp Thing.

It's basically what DC is doing to their mainstream universe. Not everything is connected (See Geoff Johns JLA to Snyder's Batman), because each has it's own story, but everything is within the DC realm of the multiverse. Lucifer would still be part of the DC Omniverse.

Dc's continuity is a joke.

Originally posted by Zack M
It's basically what DC is doing to their mainstream universe. Not everything is connected (See Geoff Johns JLA to Snyder's Batman), because each has it's own story, but everything is within the DC realm of the multiverse. Lucifer would still be part of the DC Omniverse. This series will be published under the DC imprint, just like it was when Carey wrote it. However, it will more than likely not address mainstream DC and its...murky continuity. At all.

...And that's a good thing.

Lucifer #1 Pt 1/2

http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24705284_Lucifer_2015-_001-002.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24705287_Lucifer_2015-_001-003.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24705290_Lucifer_2015-_001-004.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24705293_Lucifer_2015-_001-005.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24705297_Lucifer_2015-_001-006.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24705303_Lucifer_2015-_001-007.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24705307_Lucifer_2015-_001-008.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24705310_Lucifer_2015-_001-009.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24705313_Lucifer_2015-_001-010.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24705316_Lucifer_2015-_001-011.jpg

Lucifer #1 Pt 2/2

http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t/24705286_Lucifer_2015-_001-012.jpg http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t/24705289_Lucifer_2015-_001-013.jpg http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t/24705292_Lucifer_2015-_001-014.jpg http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t/24705295_Lucifer_2015-_001-015.jpg http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t/24705299_Lucifer_2015-_001-016.jpg http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t/24705301_Lucifer_2015-_001-017.jpg http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t/24705305_Lucifer_2015-_001-018.jpg http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t/24705308_Lucifer_2015-_001-019.jpg http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t/24705312_Lucifer_2015-_001-020.jpg http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t/24705315_Lucifer_2015-_001-021.jpg

I'll be honest, I didn't actually hate it.

And I really like the fact that Holly Black has clearly gone over Lucifer/Sandman etc to work out how to continue this. I mean in the first issue she addressed Gabriel's Fall, Mazikeen, Lucifer's lack of power & his meeting with Yahweh in the void and mentions Elaine so I imagine that will come back into play at some point.

I mean there's still something a bit off with Lucifer's voice but it's issue one and I'm actually intrigued who killed God. And I quite like the way they did it- a hole in the Primum Mobile.

Pretty good, actually.

Not a fan. Not as bad as it could have been but I dont think its good either. Huge eye roll on the "no one kills my father but me" line.

A bit different from Carey's run, but so far it's not bad. Then again it might be a bit early to tell.

Originally posted by HueyFreeman
Huge eye roll on the "no one kills my father but me" line.
LXmmfb2JDsc

Lucifer's characterization is much different than I would have liked, but the issue as a whole wasn't bad. I am glad they introduced additional members of the angel mythology, like Metatron.

I did find this bit interesting, though:
http://i.imgur.com/WeUm1j9.png

"I have passed between multiverseS..."



Oh and OAS: I don't mind a few scans from the comic being posted here, but keep the full issue in the Ownage thread next time.

Originally posted by Galan007
I did find this bit interesting, though:

"I have passed between multiverseS..."
We already knew that though.

Lucifer has his own multiverse, and Yahweh had his; and Lucifer has gone from one to the other.

Yeah, we always knew it. Others, however, have tried to argue the fact for yearS... So it's nice to have additional confirmation.

Artwork looks great.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, we always knew it. Others, however, have tried to argue the fact for yearS... So it's nice to have additional confirmation.
Do you honestly think that Air Legend would be convinced by any evidence from Holly's run?

Originally posted by Juntai
Artwork looks great. It does have that going for it.

Originally posted by Astner
Do you honestly think that Air Legend would be convinced by any evidence from Holly's run? Pfft. Mike Carey himself could walk up to him and say: "Look dude, Lucifer created a multiverse", and he'd still argue it.

The guy made nvr seem perfectly reasonable.

In all fairness, while stubborn, at least Air Legend was well informed and motivated his positions; in contrast to BeyonderGod. But I digress.

When does #2 come out?

Originally posted by Astner
In all fairness, while stubborn, at least Air Legend was well informed and motivated his positions; in contrast to BeyonderGod. But I digress.

When does #2 come out? It's currently slated for release on 01/20/16:
http://www.vertigocomics.com/comics/lucifer-2015/lucifer-2

"Agreeing to team up to find out who killed their Father, Lucifer and Gabriel begin the hunt for clues and suspects. And what better place to search for God's murderer than Lucifer's former realm, Hell? But how will the Lords and Ladies of the Nine Circles respond to the return of their old ruler? Plus, the return of a one-time nemesis of a certain Dreamking."

___________________________________


And issue #3 is set for 02/17/16:
http://www.vertigocomics.com/comics/lucifer-2015/lucifer-3

"Finding little assistance in Hell, Gabriel and Lucifer continue their quest to uncover their Father's murderer. Next stop: The Dreaming. Meanwhile, Azazel, a former Archduke loyal to Beelzebub, finds himself in the hands of an unlikely savior, an orphaned thirteen-year-old girl named Medjine."

Originally posted by Galan007
Pfft. Mike Carey himself could walk up to him and say: "Look dude, Lucifer created a multiverse", and he'd still argue it.

The guy made nvr seem perfectly reasonable.

Pfft. Mike Carey himself did say it in Nirvana

Finally got around to reading #1. It was more or less like I expected - not great.

"I don't just love the sinner...I love the sin"
"I tempt, I deceive, I trick. I am cruel and I am ruthless..."
"Because no one gets to kill God but me"

Ugh. The dialogue made me want to hurl a little. Sure, Holly's probably read Sandman and Lucifer and got the gist of the plot points, but an understanding of the character seems to be a long ways off. Half the point of Carey's Lucifer was that "the Devil" was misunderstood. He wasn't a cruel, lying sadist. He just didn't give a single shit about anyone other than himself (and maybe a tiny bit Mazikeen and Elaine...sometimes). Carey's Lucifer flat out stated that he never made anyone do anything and that he gets blamed for a lot that he had no involvement in. He doesn't tempt, deceive, or trick. He was in Hell all those years just because it was furthest from Heaven. What Hell became was just a product of him not doing anything to stop it because he didn't care, not because he encouraged it.

The fundamental understanding of the character just seems to be missing here, but I'm hoping its just still too early.

Originally posted by Cogito
Pfft. Mike Carey himself did say it in Nirvana

Wasn't I the first one to bring that to the attention of the general online comics community?

I think Holly got what Lucifer was and is perfectly. He's done all those things. "I tempt, I deceive, I trick. I am cruel and I am ruthless..." He's done that. "I don't just love the sinner...I love the sin", he love's it because its their choice to chose something other then what God set out for everyone, even though it leads to death and separation from God, which is what God never intended for humans. The part about him wanting to kill his father is true, he despises him totally but being a part of his family he loves God in a sadistic way, or at least used too. That's what Holly is trying to say.

Would have Mike Carey had Lucifer said all this? Probably not, but this is still Holly Black's first time writing him, I think she's just trying to give us some info on his character, letting us know, she knows who Lucifer is! The fact that Lucifer went against his Father's rule and approach to creation, and went to Hell is what tempted other's that very same choice. He's right when he said he never made them do anything to go to Hell but still he didn't try to persuade them to join God's side of viewing things and go to Heaven.

Really looking forward to the Dream King issue.

Originally posted by kevdude
I think Holly got what Lucifer was and is perfectly. He's done all those things. "I tempt, I deceive, I trick. I am cruel and I am ruthless..." He's done that. "I don't just love the sinner...I love the sin",

The way I read it, and again maybe its just too early, was him saying those things because he's a sadist like the other Hell lords who actually do love those things - not because of his (justifiable) obsession with free will. Carey's Lucifer was much more subtle...so I guess we'll see.

I do get that this run, to some extent, has to be understandable to those who haven't read Sandman or Carey's Lucifer. So early on we have to introduce the characters somewhat.

/shrug

Issue #2 was mediocre.

Gabriel is starting to steal the show.

Yeah this issue wasn't as good as number #1 imo. Although I'm somewhat intrigued w/ what has happened to Mazikeen between Lucifer and now.

Also slightly weird thing, from the dialogue it seems like Gabriel blames Lucifer for what happened to him in Hellblazer, which is strange as it specifically had nothing to do with him. If that is a mistake it's a weird one as the story has clearly been read/referenced. Just something I noticed.

Is the Lucifer series canon to DC?

http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/27911886_Lucifer_2015-_007-004.jpg http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/27911887_Lucifer_2015-_007-005.jpg http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/27911895_Lucifer_2015-_007-006.jpg http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/27911898_Lucifer_2015-_007-007.jpg


Curious... Very curious. mmm

Going to be interesting to see what happens in issue 8. Hope we get an answer as to why Raphael killed Metatron.

Just read 2-7 last night. Still kinda sucks

has anyone watched the tv show? if so, should I read the comics too?

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
has anyone watched the tv show? if so, should I read the comics too?

I haven't seen it, but from the many commercials I've seen it looks like it has absolutely nothing to do with the comic series aside from Lucifer showing up in LA.

And yes, you should definitely read Carey's run. It's not that long and it's one of the best ever

Originally posted by Cogito
I haven't seen it, but from the many commercials I've seen it looks like it has absolutely nothing to do with the comic series aside from Lucifer showing up in LA.

And yes, you should definitely read Carey's run. It's not that long and it's one of the best ever


I will give it a read

http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29424674_Lucifer_2015-_009-004.jpg http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29424679_Lucifer_2015-_009-005.jpg http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29424686_Lucifer_2015-_009-021.jpg http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29424690_Lucifer_2015-_009-022.jpg


*sighs*

Ugh

Who is that?

Something that grew from Yahweh's corpse.

Tbh I'm not hating this series, it's just really underwhelming at times. Whereas Lucifer (and Sandman previously) managed to slowly build up to these big events and when things actually happened after the slow burn it felt epic.

Whereas here things are just kind of happening with little impact. I mean the revelation about Yahweh's death should be a big moment, but it really didn't feel that way.

Basically, the book is picking up all these threads from Lucifer and other places (Izanami and L's son, Mazikeen, Jill's daughter etc) and then just being fairly average imo. Which makes it suffer in comparison as Carey's Lucifer was brilliant.

I can't remember the last time I saw such generic villainy.

It's pretty terrible, tbh. Huge disservice to Carey.

The only thing that could make it worse would be if his power didn't work on Lucifer because he's the Will of God.

Lucifer gave up nearly all of his power at the end of Carey's run, so you're right. If the Anti-God's power was ineffectual against him, it would be VERY stupid.

I miss the Great Evil Beast. That was a much better 'Anti-God'.

Just read it, its not terrible but its not great either, its just okay imo. Gabriel just seems to be there, like just a normal average character, which we know he isn't. I think they are using him a little to much.. The only one I feel adds something to the story is when Mazikeen shows up, I think mainly cause it's something new that she is the queen of hell, taking the story somewhere else.

Holly needs to show she can do stuff like this, have her own idea's but stay true to continuity. Here's a good interview from blastr.com she had yesterday. In it saying, she wants to tie up some plot threads from previous stories, and has talked to Neil. Hope she can talk to Mike next.

http://www.blastr.com/2016-8-24/lucifer-comic-writer-holly-black-vol-1-and-raising-hell-neil-gaimans-devil

The Anti-God just comes off as another variation of the ALE, imo:
http://s6d4.turboimg.net/t1/29825451_Lucifer_2015-_010-013.jpg

Michael did return, though, so that might make things a bit more interesting:
http://s6d4.turboimg.net/t1/29825471_Lucifer_2015-_010-020.jpg

What happened to Michael after that?

That's all we saw of him this issue.

But I did forget to mention that Elaine returned as well:
http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/29871380_Lucifer_2015-_010-022.jpg

Originally posted by Galan007
It's pretty terrible, tbh. Huge disservice to Carey. It ended perfectly. I'm glad I haven't read any of it. Carey was exceptional.

Originally posted by Galan007
That's all we saw of him this issue.

But I did forget to mention that Elaine returned as well:
http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/29871380_Lucifer_2015-_010-022.jpg

So, she's not God anymore?

She *should* be.

Toward the end of Carey's run, Elaine merged with creation in order to better experience it -- she has evidently taken on material form again. And as the scan states: she has been the one narrating the new Lucifer series this entire time, and even mentions her own omniscience. So yeah, I'd say she's still God.

http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o589/lupinw45/LR_zpsuxmk05as.jpg

Hopefully he'll be able to fix this mess.

Well, Elaine gave Lucifer all his powers back:
http://s6d4.turboimg.net/t1/30204929_Lucifer_2015-_011-007.jpg http://s6d4.turboimg.net/t1/30204930_Lucifer_2015-_011-016.jpg

We also know that Elaine herself is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. She will not intervene against the Anti-God due to the vow she made to never interfere -- hence why she restored Lucifer's power.

That's one way to keep an omnipotent out of the plot, I guess.

I haven't read this issue or the one before. Has it been explained how Elaine is right there and yet God/Elaine is "dead"?

Also interesting that she referred to the prior God as "The Presence".

There were technically two Supreme Beings at the end of Carey's run: Yahweh and Elaine(after becoming the Demiurge.) That's where the differentiation comes from.

Yahweh/The Presence as we know him was seemingly 'killed' in this series, but Elaine(ie. God part deux) still remains. Like I said, though: she made it pretty clear that she does not intend to directly intervene against the Anti-God:
http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/30207579_Lucifer_2015-_011-006.jpg

...Although I suppose Elaine kind of did intervene(albeit indirectly) by restoring Lucifer's full power, along with giving him the 'key' to unlocking the power of the Basanos within Noema again.

Originally posted by Galan007
There were technically two Supreme Beings at the end of Carey's run: Yahweh and Elaine(after becoming the Demiurge.)

The way I read the end of Carey's run, Yahweh had left creation same as Lucifer never to return. He literally handed over creation to Elaine, after all. So for him to have been back on the throne is...unexpected. And unexplained, IMO.

Originally posted by Galan007
There were technically two Supreme Beings at the end of Carey's run: Yahweh and Elaine(after becoming the Demiurge.) That's where the differentiation comes from.

Yahweh/The Presence as we know him was seemingly 'killed' in this series, but Elaine(ie. God part deux) still remains. Like I said, though: she made it pretty clear that she does not intend to directly intervene against the Anti-God:
http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/30207579_Lucifer_2015-_011-006.jpg

...Although I suppose Elaine kind of did intervene(albeit indirectly) by restoring Lucifer's full power, along with giving him the 'key' to unlocking the power of the Basanos within Noema again.

Was it ever explained who killed God? I forgot. lol

You're absolutely right. It makes no sense, as Yahweh essentially abandoned creation... But if Lucifer can inexplicably return in this series, I suppose Yahweh can, too.

Originally posted by Galan007
You're absolutely right. It makes no sense, as Yahweh essentially abandoned creation... But if Lucifer can inexplicably return in this series, I suppose Yahweh can, too.

At least there was a shitty explanation for Lucifer returning though

Pretending to continue on the legacies of Gaiman and Carey's brilliant works with this kind of lazy, half-assed writing is insulting, imo.

I don't think it's that bad, TBH. It doesn't hold a candle to Carey's work, but I didn't expect it to be close. I still enjoy it for the most part.

It's worse than that bad

Not as bad as the Lucifer TV show, but that's based on the comics in the same way Braveheart is based on true events - hardly at all.

The explanation for Yahweh returning was that Yahweh died in the void, became that egg thing, from which the Anti-God hatched and then returned to creation.

That said, the very fact that Yahweh was able to be found while outside of creation is ridiculous... Unless, of course, he wanted to be found. /shrug

Yeah that was slightly weird, as we saw at the end of Carey's run that it takes a lot of willpower and at least some degree of actual power to be able to make sense of and navigate the Void.

Ok I actually caught up on reading. Things make a bit more sense now, but there's still plot holes big enough to drive a truck through - not to mention gross inconsistencies

http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/30505202_Lucifer_2015-_012-008.jpg http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/30505211_Lucifer_2015-_012-009.jpg http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/30505222_Lucifer_2015-_012-010.jpg http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/30505231_Lucifer_2015-_012-011.jpg http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/30505235_Lucifer_2015-_012-013.jpg



Also:
http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/30505238_Lucifer_2015-_012-021.jpg

Looks like absolute shit

Read the issue. Not sure how much longer I have it in me to continue with this garbage.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Looks like absolute shit Couldn't agree more.

I can't believe how much Black is botching the series. It's sad, tbh.

Well just read it, very disappointed in it. Glad this is her next to last issue. I hope Richard Kadrey can fix this mess, this woman has turned this into!!!! If she couldn't write up to Carey's level, it's not even half as good, she shouldn't have taken on this project.

I read the first issue of this, then completely forgot about it. Judging by everyones comments, it sounds like it's not worth catching up on.

Nah, it's pretty terrible. It's getting another writer in January, so we'll see if he can salvage the series somehow.

Ok I just read it a few more times, one of the things that give me some hope for this series, is that at the end Lucifer says "Whatever you are, you may have some of him in you; Perhaps you stole his power as you stole mine, but you are not my father." This makes it seem that Lucifer knows this isn't his dad, and does that mean the real Presences is still in the void? Mazikeen and Lucifer talk at the end and she talks about killing God, is he leading her on instead of telling her he doesn't believe whatever is in the Silver City isn't God? This is all over the place.....


While not as bad as read as the first time I read it, its still not like Carey's work, and at least Black told us her Lucifer would be different and would sit between Gaiman's and Carey's version's. That much is true. If we want to read story's about Lucifer, Gabriel and the other's we are going to have to read this, if we don't like it enough nobody is forced to read it. I messaged Carey about coming back to Lucifer and writing him again on Twitter and he said him and Peter was finished and it was time for other's to write him. And I tweeted Mr. Kadrey about doing better then Holly and he said he's happy with her run and if I hated her run on it I would probably hate his run too.. I don't hate it, I just don't like it when compared to Carey's, hers is just 'okay'. I guess that will have to be good enough if we want to read about the Morningstar..

Me and Carey's tweets
https://twitter.com/michaelcarey191/status/799383445537484804

http://i.imgur.com/noRJvsD.jpg

Seriously though, another terrible issue. They're celebrating Christmas, ffs, and the whole issue seemed to have just about nothing to do with anything.

And the art....I have no words.

I do like the idea from today's issue of one of the ways of them to amass power is to find Gabriel's heart that was discarded back in the 90s.

And thankfully the art is back to looking nice.

Series is still crap...

The Anti-God transforms Lucifer's son into his version of Lucifer:
https://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/33564558_Lucifer_2015-_015-019.jpg https://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/33564559_Lucifer_2015-_015-020.jpg https://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/33564560_Lucifer_2015-_015-021.jpg https://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/33564561_Lucifer_2015-_015-022.jpg

The eye-shadow, eye-brow shade and nose job makes Lucifer come across as very feminine. And Lucifer's cheek bones seem to come and go as they please.

Oh well, did the new Ultimates issue come out?

Originally posted by Astner
Oh well, did the new Ultimates issue come out? Indeed. I posted scans of that in the Ownage thread.

I am now convinced this series is beyond redemption. Issue #16 was garbage. srsly

So what happened?

This issue was a great example of the really big problem with this series, in that there's basically no focus within the individual issues.

Like, there were like 4 or 5 different stories it touched on within 24 pages, so it felt like there was no real progress across any of them.

Carey's Lucifer (and Sandman before it) did it correctly, in that you'd have a focused arc and then individual issues informing the other storylines and such.

At least the art here is pretty nice.

switched creative teams too