TCW ROTS Mace Windu vs Rebels Vader

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redpill
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Lothal, with Mace replacing Kanan and Ezra

TheNuisanceBird
We haven't seen Rebels Vader fighting at his full capacity yet. I think it's safe to assume that he's ore than capable of contending with Mace.

EmperorSidious2
Vader.

McP
Mace

Kurk
Mace is no pushover,

I think vader could probably take the majority 7-8/10

Nargaroth
Mace takes sabers. Vader has nothing to compare yet.

SunRazer
He has being better than Sidious wink

Darth Thor
Originally posted by SunRazer
He has being better than Sidious wink


Mace takes Sabers, but Vader makes him work for it.

Vader takes Force round quite solidly.

All Out I'm thinking it can go either way, so a Split. But maybe a slight majority to Vader. Mace has put Sidious on his ass once, but Vader's Powerful enough to crush an AT-AT.

McP
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Mace has put Sidious on his ass once(...)

Mace seemed to put Sidious on his ass, according to Databank

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by Darth Thor


Mace has put Sidious on his ass once,


He wouldn't get that same amp from Vader though.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
He wouldn't get that same amp from Vader though.


Why not?

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Why not?

Vader doesn't have as much of a dark signature as Sidious. I won't say his inner darkness wouldn't be as high either, due to Anakin you know, cutting off his hand, and I'm not sure how Mace equates getting his arm cut off versus his trust of a government he served for a long time being run by a Sith Lord.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Vader doesn't have as much of a dark signature as Sidious.


Doubt there would a huge gap tbh. Considering how ridiculously powerful Vader is, on top of the level of rage and anger he has powering him


Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I won't say his inner darkness wouldn't be as high either, due to Anakin you know, cutting off his hand, and I'm not sure how Mace equates getting his arm cut off versus his trust of a government he served for a long time being run by a Sith Lord.


Well there is the fact that Anakin betrayed him and the entire Jedi Order.

That has to build a lot of inner darkness.

quanchi112
Mace. Every single fight. He's on another level. Vader's lack of mobility really costs him here.

juyomaster34
Agreed,I still say Mace Windu.
Whether Vader has a dark signature or not.
He still uses the dark side. and thats more than enough for Vaapad.

Mace isn't no push over with Force Powers either.
I wouldn't say Vader takes it all.

But if Vader does gets the edge in Force powers then that's all
bc as long as he's calling on the dark side,rage, hatred,then Vaapad channels and reflects.

Vader's a tank, I get that.even tanks have a weakness.
Just how long can Vader call on the darkside to keep him alive before Mace kills him?
This is what I'm asking,

ShatterPoint detects weakness in the armor,
no matter how many times Vader upgrades the armor,
The lfe support systems in the armor are still the shatterpoint.

Windu crushes life support w/Force crush or shatterpoint or saber,
Vader is forced to do what? Call on the dark side to sustain him.
Which is what Mace wants.

remember the longer he calls on the dark side the better for Vaapad.
I know Vader can take punishment,so can Mace.
The question is how long can he last without his life support?

bc all Mace has to do is wait, Vaapad is sustaining him he can still fight as long as
Vader can. This is for any era of Vader how long can he last before he suffocates?

Palpaptine said it himself he weakened Vader's armor on purpose to keep him from rebeling.
Even Palpaptine knows how to kill Vader.

I know he's a cyborg,true but a cyborg that's still human.
take out his life support systems, his iron lungs
He's fueled by hatred and the darkside,This is the only thing keeping him alive.

This powers Vaapad,along with Mace's inner darkness and Anakin's betrayal.
Might not be close to Sidious but its still dark side energy and that's all it takes.
Vader dies either of suffocation or decapitation.

It won't be easy.
Vader is gonna make him work for it.
Vader is gonna punish Mace.
Both of these men can take a beating.

The latter has too many shatterpoints.
Neither man is invincible or immune to shatterpoints.
Vader will do his best to protect his life support systems,

but in the end imo. It won't be enough.
Again,this just my opinion. With all due respect,

I do respect, everybodys thoughts,replies ,opinions.
All I ask in return that you respect mine as well.
If it was easy for Mace,then it wouldn't be fun.

It would be unsatisfying. Yet he would find some satisfaction in it.
Vader did cut off his saber hand. and left him for dead.

ILS
http://i.imgur.com/pMUWi5x.jpg

redpill
Originally posted by juyomaster34
Agreed,I still say Mace Windu.
Whether Vader has a dark signature or not.
He still uses the dark side. and thats more than enough for Vaapad.

Mace isn't no push over with Force Powers either.
I wouldn't say Vader takes it all.

But if Vader does gets the edge in Force powers then that's all
bc as long as he's calling on the dark side,rage, hatred,then Vaapad channels and reflects.

Vader's a tank, I get that.even tanks have a weakness.
Just how long can Vader call on the darkside to keep him alive before Mace kills him?
This is what I'm asking,

ShatterPoint detects weakness in the armor,
no matter how many times Vader upgrades the armor,
The lfe support systems in the armor are still the shatterpoint.

Windu crushes life support w/Force crush or shatterpoint or saber,
Vader is forced to do what? Call on the dark side to sustain him.
Which is what Mace wants.

remember the longer he calls on the dark side the better for Vaapad.
I know Vader can take punishment,so can Mace.
The question is how long can he last without his life support?

bc all Mace has to do is wait, Vaapad is sustaining him he can still fight as long as
Vader can. This is for any era of Vader how long can he last before he suffocates?

Palpaptine said it himself he weakened Vader's armor on purpose to keep him from rebeling.
Even Palpaptine knows how to kill Vader.

I know he's a cyborg,true but a cyborg that's still human.
take out his life support systems, his iron lungs
He's fueled by hatred and the darkside,This is the only thing keeping him alive.

This powers Vaapad,along with Mace's inner darkness and Anakin's betrayal.
Might not be close to Sidious but its still dark side energy and that's all it takes.
Vader dies either of suffocation or decapitation.

It won't be easy.
Vader is gonna make him work for it.
Vader is gonna punish Mace.
Both of these men can take a beating.

The latter has too many shatterpoints.
Neither man is invincible or immune to shatterpoints.
Vader will do his best to protect his life support systems,

but in the end imo. It won't be enough.
Again,this just my opinion. With all due respect,

I do respect, everybodys thoughts,replies ,opinions.
All I ask in return that you respect mine as well.
If it was easy for Mace,then it wouldn't be fun.

It would be unsatisfying. Yet he would find some satisfaction in it.
Vader did cut off his saber hand. and left him for dead. can u comment on quinlan vos dd vs mace ? eek!

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by ILS
http://i.imgur.com/pMUWi5x.jpg
roflmao

quanchi112
Originally posted by ILS
http://i.imgur.com/pMUWi5x.jpg Windu wins indeed, woooooooooo

ILS
Windu vs Can?

playa1258
Vader takes a force battle and is close enough in sabers to win a majority in a all-out fight.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Doubt there would a huge gap tbh. Considering how ridiculously powerful Vader is, on top of the level of rage and anger he has powering him





Well there is the fact that Anakin betrayed him and the entire Jedi Order.

That has to build a lot of inner darkness.

That's more concealed rage. I can be angry, but never unleash it. It's just dormant. That's inner anger/darkness. So again Mace wouldn't have enough energy form Vader to be able to beat him. I'm not saying this is a factual thing, but mace would have better luck with a Juyo or Ataru specialist. Most Juyo due to it being the former closest to the dark side.

Well I u detested and agree, but being in Anakins position, Windu did know he had some problems, however not a real good excuse. So even if his inner darkness is high, Vader's darkness that he lets out isn't.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by quanchi112
Mace. Every single fight. He's on another level. Vader's lack of mobility really costs him here.

Wrong, wrong, wrong,and this is Star Wars versus forum, so look at the expanded universe before you talk about Vader's mobility.

quanchi112
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Wrong, wrong, wrong,and this is Star Wars versus forum, so look at the expanded universe before you talk about Vader's mobility. That doesn't make the canon feats any less canon. He's slow. Painfully slow and far less agile than pre suit. The rule is we don't have to use the eu since it's not canon. You break the movie versus rules all the time which is film feats only, hypocrite.

smile

quanchi112
Originally posted by playa1258
Vader takes a force battle and is close enough in sabers to win a majority in a all-out fight. Based on ?

SunRazer
The script of ANH describes Vader as making lightning-fast movements, and in the majority of the EU Vader is still depicted as relatively fast (agile is another thing, but Vader has been depicted as agile before a swell). No idea why people still hang on to the belief that Vader is as slow as a sloth.

If we're looking for Canon speed feats for Vader, LotS has some nice ones (and nice ones for agility).

Zenwolf
Originally posted by SunRazer
The script of ANH describes Vader as making lightning-fast movements, and in the majority of the EU Vader is still depicted as relatively fast (agile is another thing, but Vader has been depicted as agile before a swell). No idea why people still hang on to the belief that Vader is as slow as a sloth.

If we're looking for Canon speed feats for Vader, LotS has some nice ones (and nice ones for agility).

Heck even in the movies alone, you see Vader at times both reacting and doing fast movements. So...yeah.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by quanchi112
That doesn't make the canon feats any less canon. He's slow. Painfully slow and far less agile than pre suit. The rule is we don't have to use the eu since it's not canon. You break the movie versus rules all the time which is film feats only, hypocrite.

smile

In this forum we go by both canon and Expanded universe, and you can't rely on the movies for an accurate depiction of Vader's speed due to the lack of technology available to Lucas at the time, and how limited they are to Humana problems. Expmaded universe gives a better view of his speed, and his peed surpasses a lot of people, even top tier deulist. He was able to match more agile deulist so you underestimate his speed. Actually I don't break the rules. You should pay more attention. I only use the books when the books are put in my face first. So you admit you break the rules?

Also he's never been shown to have a speed problem in the movies. He's always been able to handle speed.

quanchi112
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
In this forum we go by both canon and Expanded universe, and you can't rely on the movies for an accurate depiction of Vader's speed due to the lack of technology available to Lucas at the time, and how limited they are to Humana problems. Expmaded universe gives a better view of his speed, and his peed surpasses a lot of people, even top tier deulist. He was able to match more agile deulist so you underestimate his speed. Actually I don't break the rules. You should pay more attention. I only use the books when the books are put in my face first. So you admit you break the rules?

Also he's never been shown to have a speed problem in the movies. He's always been able to handle speed. Yes, you can. We also see his slow movements in rebels. Canon counts. Read the rules. Windu wins, easily. Vader is too slow and cumbersome to even really challenge Windu. He gets wrecked faster than when Luke crushed him.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, you can. We also see his slow movements in rebels. Canon counts. Read the rules. Windu wins, easily. Vader is too slow and cumbersome to even really challenge Windu. He gets wrecked faster than when Luke crushed him.

I never said it didn't count. You just lowball people. Vader can match Windu's speed since Vader was described as moving faster than thought. Both can move incredibly fast. Vader's force powers are also greater than Windu's. Vader gets the saber, force, and all out in my book.

carthage
Windu isn't faster than Vader

Zenwolf
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, you can. We also see his slow movements in rebels. Canon counts. Read the rules. Windu wins, easily. Vader is too slow and cumbersome to even really challenge Windu. He gets wrecked faster than when Luke crushed him.

He's also moved fast in just the movies too. That's canon, which as you said, it counts.

Nargaroth
How about this canon feat?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11115/111155790/4603564-darth+vader+006-005.jpg

Or this one?



Suure, slow as ****.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, you can. We also see his slow movements in rebels. Canon counts.


And was he portrayed slower than Windu in ROTS? Nope.

You lose. As per usual.

And Disney has destroyed your Trolling of "Movies Only Canon" LMAO

quanchi112
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I never said it didn't count. You just lowball people. Vader can match Windu's speed since Vader was described as moving faster than thought. Both can move incredibly fast. Vader's force powers are also greater than Windu's. Vader gets the saber, force, and all out in my book. We see that he didn't move faster than thought. That's hyperbolic nonsense kiddies use as debating points.

No, they aren't. Vader is angrier but the guy got wrecked by Luke. Who wrecked Mace ? On no one did in a fair fight. He had Vader's dark master begging to spare his life. Canon. smile

quanchi112
Originally posted by Zenwolf
He's also moved fast in just the movies too. That's canon, which as you said, it counts. He doesn't move fast in the films. His suit weighs him down and we see against Luke his mobility is definitely an issue.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darth Thor
And was he portrayed slower than Windu in ROTS? Nope.

You lose. As per usual.

And Disney has destroyed your Trolling of "Movies Only Canon" LMAO In the suit he definitely was. Pre suit Kenobi beat him. Kenobi wasn't even allowed to go after Sidious because he's out of his league. That's the guy Windu beat.

When did I ever deny anything canon ?

Darth Thor
Originally posted by quanchi112
In the suit he definitely was. Pre suit Kenobi beat him. Kenobi wasn't even allowed to go after Sidious because he's out of his league. That's the guy Windu beat.

When did I ever deny anything canon ?


Oh Bravo at the logic! LOL

Let me do you one better:

Pre-Suit Anakin beat Dooku. Dooku fought off Yoda, proving Pre-Suit Anakin was already close to Yoda. Post-Suit Vader is more powerful than Pre-Suit as confirmed in the New Canon "Lords of the Sith."

Then Rebels Vader is even more powerful than Lords of the Sith Vader as confirmed by Pablo Hidalgo of the Lucasfilm Story Group.

So yeah Rebels Vader is well above Windu.


As for when you denied anything canon? Just now when you claimed Post Suit Vader is beneath pre-suit Vader.


You see I'm better at Quanchi logic than the troll himself. Either way, I always win.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Oh Bravo at the logic! LOL

Let me do you one better:

Pre-Suit Anakin beat Dooku. Dooku fought off Yoda, proving Pre-Suit Anakin was already close to Yoda. Post-Suit Vader is more powerful than Pre-Suit as confirmed in the New Canon "Lords of the Sith."

Then Rebels Vader is even more powerful than Lords of the Sith Vader as confirmed by Pablo Hidalgo of the Lucasfilm Story Group.

So yeah Rebels Vader is well above Windu.


As for when you denied anything canon? Just now when you claimed Post Suit Vader is beneath pre-suit Vader.


You see I'm better at Quanchi logic than the troll himself. Either way, I always win. abc logic which proves nothing since different styles have different advantages, etc.

More powerful; sure. More mobile; no.

I saw rebels Vader against scrubs such on the show with no real training he was beaten back. Windu would wreck those two while holding back so despite all your blanket statements the facts definitely don't add up.

Facts matter not general statements with regards to power; ALONE.

Selenial
I love how Quanchi just ignores the canon quotes from new novels in the hopes no-one noticed Nargaroth one shorting him.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Selenial
I love how Quanchi just ignores the canon quotes from new novels in the hopes no-one noticed Nargaroth one shorting him. I do not ignore the hyperbolic quotes which don't show any real time speed or action. What I do is highlight him in real time and how painstakingly immobile he is. Luke exposed him. The proof is in the pudding.

Trocity
Originally posted by Selenial
I love how Quanchi just ignores the canon quotes from new novels in the hopes no-one noticed Nargaroth one shorting him.

thumb up

He knows he can troll Emperorsidious and DP, he wants nothing to do with anyone else.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Trocity
thumb up

He knows he can troll Emperorsidious and DP, he wants nothing to do with anyone else. What are you talking about ? Random unquantifiable feats that can't be seen in realtime don't override real time feats we have seen Vader perform. He doesn't move quickly. He's slow.

FreshestSlice
"the limitations of 1980 are canon."

carthage
Vader wins due to vastly superior force abilities.

quanchi112
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
"the limitations of 1980 are canon." We just saw him in Star Wars rebels and guess what he is still slow.

thumb up

quanchi112
Originally posted by carthage
Vader wins due to vastly superior force abilities. Based on ?

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by quanchi112
We just saw him in Star Wars rebels and guess what he is still slow.

thumb up
You mean when he's holding back, or when he's still faster than everyone else there? Like seriously.

quanchi112
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You mean when he's holding back, or when he's still faster than everyone else there? Like seriously. Who says he was holding back ? Basically I hear excuses like hey special effects made him slow despite Luke not being slow or hey he was holding back despite nothing to back that claim.

He's in a big suit and is slower than he was pre suit because he's bigger and bulkier.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Trocity
thumb up

He knows he can troll Emperorsidious and DP, he wants nothing to do with anyone else.


mad

Zenwolf
Originally posted by quanchi112
He doesn't move fast in the films. His suit weighs him down and we see against Luke his mobility is definitely an issue.

https://j.gifs.com/KzZWRW.gif

https://j.gifs.com/yAX9Yn.gif

https://j.gifs.com/KrBpnr.gif

https://j.gifs.com/yAX9Yn.gif

https://j.gifs.com/y0rEQ9.gif

I'm not really seeing a snail pace here. Ignore the speed, the gifs do that, but really though just watch the fights again, there are some quick movements that happen.

EmperorSidious2
I just put him the block list. Works like a charm.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Zenwolf
https://j.gifs.com/KzZWRW.gif

https://j.gifs.com/yAX9Yn.gif

https://j.gifs.com/KrBpnr.gif

https://j.gifs.com/yAX9Yn.gif

https://j.gifs.com/y0rEQ9.gif

I'm not really seeing a snail pace here. Ignore the speed, the gifs do that, but really though just watch the fights again, there are some quick movements that happen. He can move his saber quickly but his body moves rather slowly.

1:57 he doesn't even realize Luke jumps right out of the pit he was in. 2:11 despite being weapon less Luke maneuvers around him and shoots him with the gas. This is against a very weak Luke who wasn't ready for this and still showed himself to be far quicker than Vader during this fight. 2:41 Vader falls off the platform embarrassingly so showing he lacked the awareness and skill to do anything about it against an inferior Luke. 5:30 Vader gets tagged in the arm again against a vastly inferior Luke who wasn't ready for Vader according to his master, Yoda.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C-DeI3ohVbY

His lack of mobility and maneuverability is an issue against Luke skywalker before completing his training.

quanchi112
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I just put him the block list. Works like a charm. laughing out loud

redpill
Originally posted by Darth Thor
mad rolling on floor laughing

Prof. T.C McAbe
Vader wins sabres and force, 7-8/10.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Vader wins sabres and force, 7-8/10. Based on ?

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on ?

You haven't seen Vader's full capabilities so don't ask until you have.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
You haven't seen Vader's full capabilities


Of course he hasn't. He hates Disney Star Wars.

quanchi112
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
You haven't seen Vader's full capabilities so don't ask until you have. I saw his combat prowess against Luke. He got wrecked. He was also slow in esb against an unready Luke.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Of course he hasn't. He hates Disney Star Wars. Love Disney Star Wars. I'm the first one who claimed this would be the best Star Wars ever. No one out there has more faith than me.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by quanchi112
Love Disney Star Wars. I'm the first one who claimed this would be the best Star Wars ever. No one out there has more faith than me.


Nah you're just bandwagoning onto it, despite your blatant hate, because you've realized this Trilogy may end up being the biggest box office Trilogy of all time. Even if not, you know it's going to be HUGE, so you want to Bandwagon and say "Make Mine Star Wars" despite your Blatant Hate for it.

You especially Hate Disney Star Wars.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Nah you're just bandwagoning onto it, despite your blatant hate, because you've realized this Trilogy may end up being the biggest box office Trilogy of all time. Even if not, you know it's going to be HUGE, so you want to Bandwagon and say "Make Mine Star Wars" despite your Blatant Hate for it.

You especially Hate Disney Star Wars. I do not care how successful a film is at the box office in determining if I like it or not. I don't love the ot's. I never have but rots is different. I also really enjoyed the clone wars series.

Abrams is the right man for the job and I predicted from the get go this would be the best Star Wars film to date.

EmperorSidious2
Well it being the best is an opinion question. It will be pretty hard to me for any Star Wars movie to top Revenge of the Sith.

quanchi112
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Well it being the best is an opinion question. It will be pretty hard to me for any Star Wars movie to top Revenge of the Sith. Quit riding my coattails.

kiddo44
Vader, overwhelms him without question in force powers. He would win sabers too, but that's closer.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by quanchi112
Quit riding my coattails.

I can't. Your to poor to afford them.

quanchi112
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I can't. Your to poor to afford them. So you'll lie once again.

quanchi112
Originally posted by kiddo44
Vader, overwhelms him without question in force powers. He would win sabers too, but that's closer. Based on ?

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