Why is the theory of evolution considered a threat by certain Christians?

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Bashar Teg
obvious troll thread on the topic was understandably closed, but it did generate a lot of heated discussion on this topic...so i thought this forum could do with a non-troll version of the thread.

to start, i've conversed with many christians who feel that the theory of evolution does not contradict their faith. they tend to ascribe this position to the belief that certain passages were metaphorical in nature. for example the notion that the earth was not actually created in 6 days, nor that "created in his own image" actually meant that god has a human face, arms, legs, penis, etc.

on the opposite side i see a group of people who seem to shun scientific theory in general, seemingly to protect their spirituality. these are the people i mostly want to hear from. to them i ask the question:

what threat would a universal acceptance of evolution pose for christianity, and how do you feel it goes against the teachings/ethics/morality of the new testament?

Star428
*Yawn*... Poor attempt at trolling. Surely you can do better that, atheist.

Q99
I'll point out how most of the Christians in the world believe in evolution, it's more some narrower groups that have an issue with it.

Bashar Teg
Originally posted by Star428
*Yawn*... Poor attempt at trolling. Surely you can do better that, atheist.

perhaps we can get an opinion from someone who is not obviously devoted to
thread derailment.

Bentley
I don't think there is any particular problem with evolution, since the core beliefs of christianhood are about leading a sensible and generous life, with has very little to do which historical genetics.

psmith81992
Originally posted by Q99
I'll point out how most of the Christians in the world believe in evolution, it's more some narrower groups that have an issue with it.

Exactly. Looks like another troll thread from the liberal version of TI. Good show, go ahead and close this thread Ush.



https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5133/13953783092_54352f67f8_o.jpg

Bashar Teg
then report the thread instead of backseat mod trolling.

i'm sure ush can handle his moderating duties quite adequately without your guidance, psmith.

Originally posted by Q99
I'll point out how most of the Christians in the world believe in evolution, it's more some narrower groups that have an issue with it.

point taken. did the thread come off as a sweeping generalization or were you just raising the point for all to consider?

Star428
Originally posted by Bentley
I don't think there is any particular problem with evolution, since the core beliefs of christianhood are about leading a sensible and generous life, with has very little to do which historical genetics.



The "problem" we have is that it's lies from the devil, Bentley, as I showed in the other thread which was closed because a certain atheist didn't like the facts I presented. I'm not about to repost everything I posted before to the troll who made this thread and is clearly just trying to get a rise out of believers. If anyone feels "threatened" it's atheists because they want to keep deluding themselves into thinking there is no God watching everything they do and so they don't have to worry about being judged by a supreme being on Judgement Day. Regardless, I"m not going to engage the troll who made this thread or any other atheists who come in here and sling around insults like "retard" at people who disagree with their ignorant atheistic views.

psmith81992
As you say, that's nice dear. Move along now laughing out loud

Q99
Originally posted by Star428
The "problem" we have is that it's lies from the devil,

See, I object to this line of thought- in that, one, the Bible never says the Devil goes around lying about the nature of things, which is *pretty* important and you think would be brought up in devil-avoiding tips, and two, it also requires the Devil having access to the entirety of the Earth to alter pretty much as he wants, and I'm pretty sure in the Bible, making and shaping the Earth was God's job, not the Devil's.


Is it really so hard to believe that God simply made a fantastically complex universe or what have you?

This hypothesis of yours is, at minimum, un-biblical in itself.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Q99
See, I object to this line of thought- in that, one, the Bible never says the Devil goes around lying about the nature of things, which is *pretty* important and you think would be brought up in devil-avoiding tips, and two, it also requires the Devil having access to the entirety of the Earth to alter pretty much as he wants, and I'm pretty sure in the Bible, making and shaping the Earth was God's job, not the Devil's.


Is it really so hard to believe that God simply made a fantastically complex universe or what have you?

This hypothesis of yours is, at minimum, un-biblical in itself. Blaming the devil is a fanatasic way to avoid any and all accountability for any wrongdoing in the world as well. Devil made me do it. Hilarious.

Bashar Teg
Originally posted by psmith81992
As you say, that's nice dear. Move along now laughing out loud

you addressed me, so i responded. if you don't want me to address you, stop desperately vying for my attention.

yeah i know "blah blah emotional". you're very clever.

Q99
Originally posted by quanchi112
Blaming the devil is a fanatasic way to avoid any and all accountability for any wrongdoing in the world as well. Devil made me do it. Hilarious.


It's also fairly un-biblical. The Bible talks about resisting sin and such, but doesn't talk about invisible devils everywhere or such.

The role of the Devil in the Bible is pretty darn minor.


He's not the serpent in Eden- that one was cursed to forever crawl on it's belly, obviously not something that applies to Satan.

In Job, he and God talk... conversationally.

Also? Doesn't rule hell. Hell's just a suck place for everyone, lake of fire (which doesn't eternally punish, it destroys). Bible does not give the Devil his own realm.


It's kinda a canon vs fanon thing. The fanon is big and popular, but it's not in the original text, or even the side-texts of the time (the Apocypha is basically EU material).

Star428
Also, just want to add that evolution is in direct contradiction to what the Bible teaches. I don't expect atheists to put much value on that since they ignorantly think it's a book of "fairy tales" but any person who calls himself a Christian should. I used to think that God created the universe and that He then just let it evolve naturally (not apes to humans though) but thankfully, I saw the light, after reading one of the articles I linked in the other thread. Now, I see that evolution is a complete utter lie. ALL OF IT.




BUt, I NEVER believed the nonsense that me or anyone in my family or my ancestors evolved from apes. LOL. I just don't see how anyone with a functioning brain in their head could ever believe such nonsense. Perhaps certain races evolved from apes but my ancestors originate from Adam and Eve. PERIOD.

Bashar Teg
Originally posted by Star428
Also, just want to add that evolution is in direct contradiction to what the Bible teaches.

care to elaborate and educate us on this point?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Q99
It's also fairly un-biblical. The Bible talks about resisting sin and such, but doesn't talk about invisible devils everywhere or such.

The role of the Devil in the Bible is pretty darn minor.


He's not the serpent in Eden- that one was cursed to forever crawl on it's belly, obviously not something that applies to Satan.

In Job, he and God talk... conversationally.

Also? Doesn't rule hell. Hell's just a suck place for everyone, lake of fire (which doesn't eternally punish, it destroys). Bible does not give the Devil his own realm.


It's kinda a canon vs fanon thing. The fanon is big and popular, but it's not in the original text, or even the side-texts of the time (the Apocypha is basically EU material). That is what makes this even more deliciously poetic since you'll hear them preach about the Devils influence when it's hardly even a footnote. It's hysterical and I know that sounds mean but it is to me.

Bardock42
Some Christians take the creationist story of the bible to be literal, others feel that even if the earth is not 6000 years old, their creator should still have a hand in it beyond just having started it off. Since they hold these beliefs, and want other people to hold these beliefs, Evolution, which goes against either of them, is seen as a threat.

Bashar Teg
Originally posted by Bardock42
Some Christians take the creationist story of the bible to be literal, others feel that even if the earth is not 6000 years old, their creator should still have a hand in it beyond just having started it off. Since they hold these beliefs, and want other people to hold these beliefs, Evolution, which goes against either of them, is seen as a threat.

but which passages in the bible led to the 6000 year conclusion? (addressed to all)

Bardock42
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
but which passages in the bible led to the 6000 year conclusion? (addressed to all)


Well there have been multiple way that people have tried to calculate the age of the earth. A famous one by Bishop Ussher in the 18th century who used the following methods:


(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ussher_chronology - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism)

Bashar Teg
wow that's complicated. it's almost as if the authors of the bible considered it a non-issue.

BackFire
Not sure why this thread was closed, so in the meantime I'm opening it back up.

Robtard
Thanks for reopening, was confused as I didn't find the OP to be trolly, it asked a legitimate question that was raised in another thread.

psmith81992
It was a troll thread for the reasons Q99 specified, Ush closed it. "So many Christians" aren't questioning evolution, a small minority is.

Robtard
Originally posted by psmith81992
It was a troll thread for the reasons Q99 specified, Ush closed it. "So many Christians" aren't questioning evolution, a small minority is.

While the title could be reworded for those more sensitive, the OP went on to clarify the reason for the thread:



As you can see, it implies the minority who hold a certain view.

Edit; Should also point out that about 14% of Americans don't believe in Evolution theory, now I don't know if they're all Christians, but that's just in America. So even if we're conservative and say "5%", that's about 16million people, which I would call "many".

Ushgarak
I generally leave a comment when closing threads.

Bashar Teg
i certainly didnt intend to offend, hurt, or upset anyone with the thread title.

moderators, if you read this, please change the thread title to:

"Why is the theory of evolution considered a threat by certain Christians?"

*edit* wow that was speedy. thanks!

Star428
I reported it as a troll thread as soon as I saw it this morning. And [email protected] AS I said earlier, no Christian "fears it" because we know it's nothing but lies. It's you atheists that fear the alternative to evolution (the truth): Divine creation. thumb up

BackFire
Originally posted by psmith81992
It was a troll thread for the reasons Q99 specified, Ush closed it. "So many Christians" aren't questioning evolution, a small minority is.

I don't believe having slightly questionable wording in the title qualifies it as a troll thread. For an example troll thread see http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f80/t618096.html

In that thread no attempt at discussion was made from the start, it was merely meant to demonize and attack. This thread made a sincere attempt at opening a discussion.

Anyways, edited the title of the thread since some objected to it.

red g jacks
Originally posted by Robtard
While the title could be reworded for those more sensitive, the OP went on to clarify the reason for the thread:



As you can see, it implies the minority who hold a certain view.

Edit; Should also point out that about 14% of Americans don't believe in Evolution theory, now I don't know if they're all Christians, but that's just in America. So even if we're conservative and say "5%", that's about 16million people, which I would call "many". the numbers i've seen are much higher

http://www.gallup.com/poll/170822/believe-creationist-view-human-origins.aspx

far from a small minority, at least in america. that's almost half of americans disbelieve evolution. most of whom are christians.

the reason why is pretty straightforward to me... any literal interpretation of genesis renders evolution incompatible with that narrative.

Robtard
If that's true, then the original title of "many" was most definitely spot on and not trolly whatsoever.

BackFire
God damn it guys, I'm not changing the title again. I'm only one man! And that man is lazy.

Bentley
Originally posted by Star428
Also, just want to add that evolution is in direct contradiction to what the Bible teaches. I don't expect atheists to put much value on that since they ignorantly think it's a book of "fairy tales" but any person who calls himself a Christian should.

I disagree.

IF and only IF the material expositions given in the Bible increase your faith and affect your actions, then they become important.

Obviously Jesus didn't think that much about the ancient cosmology of the universe because that's not what his teachings were about.

Bottomline, this might as well be a deception from the devil, but in a way that's pure propaganda: keep christians arguing about evolution which is entirely unimportant and keep them off things that actually matter. Every time you argue against or for evolution, the devil wins (?).

Robtard
Originally posted by BackFire
God damn it guys, I'm not changing the title again. I'm only one man! And that man is lazy. Still begs the question: "Why is the theory of evolution considered a threat by so many Christians?"

Star428
LOL. IT's still obviously a troll thread with that title (which is still a lie). Only reason why you won't admit it is because you're an atheist.


BUt whatever. Not worth arguing over it with an atheist who refuses to admit truth and deludes himself into thinking CHristians "feel threatened" by the lie of evolution. thumb up

Surtur
This is going to sound harsh, but the answer is: because they are utterly stupid. Evolution doesn't even disprove God exists..so there is NO reason for any Christians to feel threatened by it.

I mean I don't believe in God, but if he was real...the thing about omnipotents is they can kinda sorta do anything. So a God could create a universe where evolution is a thing. So it is outright silly to be threatened by science of any kind.

Star428
Originally posted by Bentley
I disagree.

IF and only IF the material expositions given in the Bible increase your faith and affect your actions, then they become important.

Obviously Jesus didn't think that much about the ancient cosmology of the universe because that's not what his teachings were about.

Bottomline, this might as well be a deception from the devil, but in a way that's pure propaganda: keep christians arguing about evolution which is entirely unimportant and keep them off things that actually matter. Every time you argue against or for evolution, the devil wins (?).



Disagree all u like, Bentley. You're wrong. God's Word is not supposed to be diluted or twisted or outright ignored. And any CHristian who just accepts evolution as "fact" needs to reexamine their beliefs. Bottom line is the Bible doesn't support evolution. PERIOD. I don't give a shit what any "scientist" says about apes turning into humans. LMAO. They're wrong.



Oh, and Jesus assumed that His followers already knew that He created the universe. He certainly didn't think they thought that evolution is how humans werebrought into the world or else He would've said something. The point is divine creation is an extremely important part of the Holy Bible. NO one should let their children be influenced by all this New Age crap and all these professors whotry to push the bullshit theory of evolution on them.

Surtur
Originally posted by Star428
Disagree all u like, Bentley. You're wrong. God's Word is not supposed to be diluted or twisted or outright ignored. And any CHristian who just accepts evolution as "fact" needs to reexamine their beliefs. Bottom line is the Bible doesn't support evolution. PERIOD. I don't give a shit what any "scientists" says about apes turning into humans. LMAO. They're wrong.

So the bible is pro slavery. Thus can I assume you are pro slavery? If you aren't pro slavery, why not?

Oh..speaking of the bible, are you all for killing anyone who decides to work a 7 day work week? You are for that, right? Cuz the bible is.

Now the bonus question: what if a SLAVE works a 7 day work week? Does the bible tell us what to do then?

psmith81992
Originally posted by Robtard
Still begs the question: "Why is the theory of evolution considered a threat by so many Christians?"



So a range of 23% or 69%, I still don't know what you define as "many". Furthermore, belief in creationism doesn't negate the belief in evolution.


Again, science isn't threatening religion in any way. Unless one is to claim that either evolution or science can be true but not neither, these "studies" don't say much.

Bashar Teg
OY VEY!

how about:

"why do certain persons of a certain religious affiliation feel in conflict with a certain scientific theory"

would that stop all the PC-whining?

psmith81992
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
OY VEY!

how about:

"why do certain persons of a certain religious affiliation feel in conflict with a certain scientific theory"

would that stop all the PC-whining?

No, I thought you were a big fan of PC. And they answer is "they're not". Again..

Surtur
If science isn't threatening religion in any way then why are there people out there who are religious and have a problem with evolution?

Don't mistake me: I don't think science is actually threatening religion. I think these people *think* that.

red g jacks
i feel that we should donate large sections of land to fundamentalist christians/creationists and allow/force them to live on them, similar to native american reservations. on these reservations they can construct the good biblical society that they clearly wish to live in. sort of like the amish except with a big razorwire fence keeping them in.

Bashar Teg
Originally posted by red g jacks
i feel that we should donate large sections of land to fundamentalist christians/creationists and allow/force them to live on them

i thought we already did that. you know...utah.

Robtard
Originally posted by psmith81992
So a range of 23% or 69%, I still don't know what you define as "many"

If that was directed at me and using those numbers, I would say 73 to 220 million people would qualify as "many".

Star428
Originally posted by Bentley
I disagree.

IF and only IF the material expositions given in the Bible increase your faith and affect your actions, then they become important.

Obviously Jesus didn't think that much about the ancient cosmology of the universe because that's not what his teachings were about.

Bottomline, this might as well be a deception from the devil, but in a way that's pure propaganda: keep christians arguing about evolution which is entirely unimportant and keep them off things that actually matter. Every time you argue against or for evolution, the devil wins (?).




NO. The "bottom line" is Satan wins when everybody starts believing the lies that evolution is how everything came into being. Having a strong unshakeable belief that the universe was created by a supreme being (THe Word/Christ) is one of the most important aspects of being Christian. thumb up

red g jacks
sounds to me like despite your disagreements, one thing you can both agree on is that satan is winning.

Bentley
Originally posted by Star428
Disagree all u like, Bentley. You're wrong. God's Word is not supposed to be diluted or twisted or outright ignored. And any CHristian who just accepts evolution as "fact" needs to reexamine their beliefs. Bottom line is the Bible doesn't support evolution. PERIOD. I don't give a shit what any "scientist" says about apes turning into humans. LMAO. They're wrong.

How am I wrong? How is focusing in evolution helping your faith at all? It's obsessing over who has the truth when we should already know that. Jesus isn't good because "he beats science and he makes me be right in discussions". This is missing the point of Jesus's teachings: he spoke the truth but never mishandled it as if it had no value. Don't throw the pearls to the pigs.

Your heart is in the right place but I heavily disagree with your approach.


Originally posted by Star428
Oh, and Jesus assumed that His followers already knew that He created the universe. He certainly didn't think they thought that evolution is how humans werebrought into the world or else He would've said something. The point is divine creation is an extremely important part of the Holy Bible. NO one should let their children be influenced by all this New Age crap and all these professors whotry to push the bullshit of evolution on them.

I'm not going to complement and correct the teachings of Jesus as if they were some imperfect practice done by an student. By speaking about particular things he disregarded irrelevant issues.

I'll give you this though: If evolution hurts your faith then you should do something, but I still see no reason of why someone who sincerily trusts Jesus would be disbalanced by it. Proper education and discussion about it helps a lot.

Star428
Fortunately, the true followers of Christ cannot be deceived no matter how hard Satan's agents try. Satan has already lost the fight when Christ died and then He was resurrected. thumb up

Bashar Teg
Originally posted by Star428
Fortunately, the true followers of CHrist cannot be deceived no matter how hard Satan's agents try.

not like all those fake scotsmen.

Surtur
Originally posted by red g jacks
i feel that we should donate large sections of land to fundamentalist christians/creationists and allow/force them to live on them, similar to native american reservations. on these reservations they can construct the good biblical society that they clearly wish to live in. sort of like the amish except with a big razorwire fence keeping them in.

If we do this we HAVE to be dicks about it: we put the creationists on a piece of land where a bunch of dinosaur fossils have been found.

psmith81992
Originally posted by Robtard
If that was directed at me and using those numbers, I would say 73 to 220 million people would qualify as "many".

Nothing in those statistics states that whatever people believe in creationism are somehow threatened by evolution.

Bashar Teg
Originally posted by Surtur
If we do this we HAVE to be dicks about it: we put the creationists on a piece of land where a bunch of dinosaur fossils have been found.

*satan's tricks

Star428
Originally posted by Bentley
How am I wrong? How is focusing in evolution helping your faith at all? It's obsessing over who has the truth when we should already know that. Jesus isn't good because "he beats science and he makes me be right in discussions". This is missing the point of Jesus's teachings: he spoke the truth but never mishandled it as if it had no value. Don't throw the pearls to the pigs.

Your heart is in the right place but I heavily disagree with your approach.




I'm not going to complement and correct the teachings of Jesus as if they were some imperfect practice done by an student. By speaking about particular things he disregarded irrelevant issues.

I'll give you this though: If evolution hurts your faith then you should do something, but I still see no reason of why someone who sincerily trusts Jesus would be disbalanced by it. Proper education and discussion about it helps a lot.




Then I don't know what to tell u ,Bentley.. I can't help u if you're so set on thinking that not believing in divine creation is no big deal. THere's nothing to discuss here. We're done. God/Christ/THe Word created the universe. THat's not some minor insignificant detail to Christianity. It's HUGE. Anyone who believes in the lie of evolution has either been deceived or they are just stubborn and they will burn in Hell for denying that God created the universe.

red g jacks
Originally posted by Surtur
If we do this we HAVE to be dicks about it: we put the creationists on a piece of land where a bunch of dinosaur fossils have been found. modern creationists actually love dinosaurs... they just picture jesus riding on them

Surtur
So just to be clear..your God is going to cause people to burn in hell over this..even if they have been "deceived" into believing in evolution?

So..tell me again why God isn't a piece of shit? If you legitimately feel he would do that then how can you whine about Satan and yet think God isn't evil?

Robtard
Originally posted by psmith81992
Nothing in those statistics states that whatever people believe in creationism are somehow threatened by evolution.

TBF, using Star's "I don't come from no monkey it's the lie of the devil!" backwater rants, he seems fearful. Sure, that's just one guy, but I doubt he's the only person who holds that particular view.

Anyhow, the title has been changed to "certain", so it should be kosher now, no?

red g jacks
if we're really being honest we should admit that we fear their wacky beliefs every bit as much as they fear science.

Surtur
Star needs to use his damn head. If Satan was as big a dick as he is made out to be and was going to place lies about us being evolved from an animal..there are a lot worse things out there he could of said we came from then a monkey.

Robtard
It is fearful what a large number of people can accomplish and I'd hate to progress backwards where science is shat on in favor of someone's interpretation of an ancient book written by people long dead with less scientific understand.

eg Recently saw some televangelist recommend people with cancer not go to a hospital for treatment, but instead pray the cancer away. Imagine that kind of thinking as being canon.

Surtur
Originally posted by red g jacks
if we're really being honest we should admit that we fear their wacky beliefs every bit as much as they fear science.

Yeah, but have a legit reason to fear those beliefs. I mean look at the believer we have in here who believes people will burn in hell forever if they were tricked into believing in evolution. They think a deity that would do this is NOT evil.

That is all kinds of f*cked up and disturbing and Star is hardly the only one who thinks like this. These people do frighten me because they have far too much power on this planet, a lot more power then science.

There are people like that in this country right now raising frickin kids.

Star428
Originally posted by Star428
Then I don't know what to tell u ,Bentley.. I can't help u if you're so set on thinking that not believing in divine creation is no big deal. THere's nothing to discuss here. We're done. God/Christ/THe Word created the universe. THat's not some minor insignificant detail to Christianity. It's HUGE. Anyone who believes in the lie of evolution has either been deceived or they are just stubborn and they will burn in Hell for denying that God created the universe.



Though I do agree that believing Christ is the Son of God, that He died for your sins, then was resurrected three days later, and that accepting Him as your personal savior is THE most important part of Christianity. BUT, that doesn't mean the rest of the Bible is insignificant. Especially not how it all began. That's an extremely important detail I'd say.

psmith81992
Originally posted by Robtard
It is fearful what a large number of people can accomplish and I'd hate to progress backwards where science is shat on in favor of someone's interpretation of an ancient book written by people long dead with less scientific understand.

eg Recently saw some televangelist recommend people with cancer not go to a hospital for treatment, but instead pray the cancer away. Imagine that kind of thinking as being canon.

I would like to see stats of creationists who are actually fearful of evolutionary theory. Right now it's a cute discussion. And yes, Star is one man.

Surtur
Originally posted by Star428
Though I do agree that believing Christ is the Son of God, that He died for your sins, then was resurrected three days later, and that accepting Him as your personal savior is THE most important part of Christianity. BUT, that doesn't mean the rest of the Bible is insignificant. Especially not how it all began. That's an extremely important detail I'd say.

See this right here? This is why others fear the beliefs of these people. Notice what he said were the most important things from this book that is actually chalk full of a lot of good wisdom to go along with all the bad. What he said was the most important things are:

-Jesus was magic and died for us
-God created everything

Nope, it's not anything about treating others well..or any of the positive stuff that does indeed exist...it's about how powerful and awesome God and Jesus were.

Robtard
I wouldn't group all Christians under Star's whacky beliefs, ffs, he gets a hardon over people he doesn't agree with being tortured and killed. He's about as far from Christ's teachings as one can get, imo.

Surtur
Yeah but you can't tell me this is the first time you've heard a Christian talk about how people are going to burn in hell over stupid shit.

Star428
Originally posted by Star428
Fortunately, the true followers of Christ cannot be deceived no matter how hard Satan's agents try. Satan has already lost the fight when Christ died and then He was resurrected. thumb up



"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect"- St. Matthew 24:24


So obviously, the true followers of Christ cannot be deceived.

Robtard
Originally posted by Surtur
Yeah but you can't tell me this is the first time you've heard a Christian talk about how people are going to burn in hell over stupid shit.

Well no, there's definitely a group of people who have Star's anti Christ views of what Christianity is. It just seemed like you were grouping all Christians when there's a number who do not think that way.

One of my friends is a "live and let live" Christian who would never tell anyone they're going to hell for having different religious beliefs.

Star428
LOL. As was pointed out in one of the several articles I linked in the other thread, the fact that dinosaurs existed does not prove the theory of evolution is true.

Emperordmb
I personally believe God's creation is so complex we are still learning new things about it today that we never would've even thought of before, that a book written by imperfect men is inherently flawed, and that flaunting piety as if it makes you better than everyone else kinda defeats the purpose of trying to be a good person.

So I am an advocate of intelligent design, I am a Christian who believes that man's interpretation of God will always be inherently flawed, and I view using one's religious or lack of religious beliefs to attack someone else as a dick move.

Star428, people like you make Christians look bad to the rest of the world, spread BS like "the Pope is the Anti-Christ," and create conflict between religious and nonreligious people. You are not doing Christianity or humanity any service with your actions here.

Bashar Teg
Originally posted by Surtur
Yeah but you can't tell me this is the first time you've heard a Christian talk about how people are going to burn in hell over stupid shit.

while i have read/heard many passive aggressive revenge fantasies regarding hell, and have seen it historically committed (particularly in pre-renaissance art. yikes.) it's easy to argue that these are the attitudes of people who don't get the point of christianity, particularly the part about love and forgiveness.

Originally posted by Robtard

One of my friends is a "live and let live" Christian who would never tell anyone they're going to hell for having different religious beliefs.

http://i.imgur.com/qtKZIvi.gif

Star428
Emperor: LOL. You still trolling me, huh? You really think I care what you or anyone else on this forum thinks about me or my beliefs? Seriously? You say you're "Christian" but I bet you're Catholic aren't you? Which would explain your trolling of me when I state true biblical things. You still upset that I told the truth about your so-called"leader", the pope in other thread?

Robtard
Originally posted by Bashar Teg

http://i.imgur.com/qtKZIvi.gif I suspect within 24hrs

Bashar Teg
laughing out loud

red g jacks
Originally posted by psmith81992
I would like to see stats of creationists who are actually fearful of evolutionary theory. Right now it's a cute discussion. And yes, Star is one man. there was that congressman (i think?) from one of the southern states who went on some rant about how evolution is a lie from the devil, who received applause from the christian crowd he was speaking to.

whether you want to call it "fear" or not is really sort of a petty semantic discussion imo. at the end of the day the point is that there is a large subsection of christians in the united states (and a growing number in europe and australia as well) who reject vast portions of modern science. whether these religious people consider modern science to be a threat to their religion is, to me, a less important question than whether we consider their dogmatic belief system to be a threat to science.

psmith81992
It's absolutely not semantic when the question is regarding fear of scientific theory from those who follow creationism. These things aren't mutually exclusive and we have no idea how many people truly fear evolutionary theory. It's nothing more than conjecture. I suspect the number of christians who either reject evolutionary theory or are intimidated by that is incredibly small in number.

red g jacks
perhaps then you can explain the gallup poll i cited earlier which demonstrates otherwise

and i just meant that to me, the question asked by the thread is not necessarily the most important question. whether they fear evolution or just reject it, i see that as the same fundamental problem for modern science.

psmith81992
Originally posted by red g jacks
perhaps then you can explain the gallup poll i cited earlier which demonstrates otherwise

No, it doesn't illustrate anything of the sort. What you are doing is called reaching.

Bashar Teg
huh...most would call that 'presenting evidence'.

red g jacks
Originally posted by psmith81992
No, it doesn't illustrate anything of the sort. What you are doing is called reaching. how would you go about determining how common the rejection of evolutionary theory is for american christians?

Surtur
Originally posted by Star428
"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect"- St. Matthew 24:24


So obviously, the true followers of Christ cannot be deceived.

If they can't be deceived please explain why they believe in a magical invisible man in the sky.

Mindset
It's 2015 and people still believe in evolution. laughing out loud

psmith81992
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
huh...most would call that 'presenting evidence'. No, most people would call that presenting evidence that is either inconsistent with the premise or doesn't even address it. Belief in creationism doesn't indicate fear of science. Belief in creationism doesn't mean rejection of science.

Bashar Teg
your challenge was clearly met with valid evidence. retorting with semantics games about it not containing the word "fear" is very childish. especially since you are the only one trying to shoehorn the word into the topic when it was not there to begin with.

psmith81992
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
your challenge was clearly met with valid evidence. retorting with semantics games about it not containing the word "fear" is very childish. especially since you are the only one trying to shoehorn the word into the topic when it was not there to begin with. Saying x and getting evidence for C doesn't compute, no matter how much you want it to validate the topic. I've explained exactly how one can read the findings. If you're desperate to make a connection, go ahead and try. But reading something and claiming it's "clearly" evidence is incorrect. Furthermore, screaming "semantics" each time there is opposition severely weakens your stance.

red g jacks
Originally posted by psmith81992
No, most people would call that presenting evidence that is either inconsistent with the premise or doesn't even address it. Belief in creationism doesn't indicate fear of science. Belief in creationism doesn't mean rejection of science. actually it says 40 something percent believe "god created humans in present form." in other words, no evolution involved. those who believe that humans evolved with god guiding the evolution are included in a different group. so you are wrong. the poll specifically is about the % of americans who believe in evolution.

http://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/mh7klzb21ue_tb0a1h_86q.png

belief that god created humanity in its present form absolutely does indicate a rejection of evolutionary theory. you are either ignorant of evolutionary theory or you are being dishonest by suggesting otherwise.

Bashar Teg
"what if there's a huge group within creationists who are totally cool with public school science classes teaching evolution theory...i mean...there is definately a significant group within creationists who are totally cool withpublic school science classes teaching evolution theory. your evidence is invalid."

Star428
Originally posted by psmith81992
No, most people would call that presenting evidence that is either inconsistent with the premise or doesn't even address it. Belief in creationism doesn't indicate fear of science. Belief in creationism doesn't mean rejection of science.




Exactly, and anybody who claims that any Christian who believes in creationism also by default automatically "fears science" (LOL) is clearly trolling. God created science, all of you atheistic fools. Just as He created nature. Christians have no reason to fear either one. Evolution is not science though. It's a lie. Gravity is science, physics is science, chemistry is science, biology is science. Evolution is not no matter how many times you fools claim it is.


Yes, paleontology is science but it has never shown one shred of proof of evolution. Never. That's why evolution is only a "theory" and nothing more. thumb up

quanchi112
Originally posted by Mindset
It's 2015 and people still believe in evolution. laughing out loud They will suffer for all of eternity by the ALL LOVIN AND BENEVOLENT LORD.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
obvious troll thread on the topic was understandably closed, but it did generate a lot of heated discussion on this topic...so i thought this forum could do with a non-troll version of the thread.

to start, i've conversed with many christians who feel that the theory of evolution does not contradict their faith. they tend to ascribe this position to the belief that certain passages were metaphorical in nature. for example the notion that the earth was not actually created in 6 days, nor that "created in his own image" actually meant that god has a human face, arms, legs, penis, etc.

on the opposite side i see a group of people who seem to shun scientific theory in general, seemingly to protect their spirituality. these are the people i mostly want to hear from. to them i ask the question:

what threat would a universal acceptance of evolution pose for christianity, and how do you feel it goes against the teachings/ethics/morality of the new testament?

People who take the bible literally have a problem with evolution because it contradicts their beliefs. But it is more then just that; evolution is fact, then they know it. That is what makes it a threat. Otherwise why would they care?

Surtur
Yep we atheists are fools for not worshipping a mass murderer.

Q99
Originally posted by Mindset
It's 2015 and people still believe in evolution. laughing out loud


... because evidence for it has only increased in time, and no alternate model has been proposed that fits the evidence or has predictive power.


One of the nice things about evolution is you can say, "Hm, here's this fossil, here's a much older fossil.... now, judging from these two, there should be an in-between species right around... here," and it actually works.

They've found species this way.

And, well, DNA evidence really confirms it. Both the interrelation, and change.


I always wonder, the non-evolution-believers, considering we all know DNA gets mixed up every generation, what mechanism do you think exists to prevent change?

Originally posted by Star428
God created science, all of you atheistic fools. Just as He created nature. Christians have no reason to fear either one. Evolution is not science though. It's a lie. Gravity is science, physics is science, chemistry is science, biology is science. Evolution is not no matter how many times you fools claim it is.

Evolution is biology, and we understand it better than we understand gravity.

Seriously, we don't actually understand gravity all that well.


Evolution is, in short, "Life changes and changes get passed on." That's not exactly radical, and it's easily proven. It's been demonstrated in labs. There's species that have evolved in very recent time- the London Underground Mosquito is an example of what happens when you take something with a very short life cycle (multiple generations a year), and put it in an environment where it both breeds faster and is isolated from the wider original population. It can no longer successfully breed with it's nearest relative, who's genes we can check and tell that they are very close, just no longer close enough.

We also have species that clearly evolved for specific circumstances, that no longer exist, and are thus dying out.

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/bee_orchid.png


Since you believe God created science, why do you have so much problem believing evolution is within that?

It's incredibly well documented, with evidence of a very wide variety of sorts. Study of living creatures, fossils, DNA, etc..

We encounter it in short term even via stuff like antibiotic resistant diseases, and see it written long term over millions and millions of years even in the slowest-changing species.


Heck, simply copying how evolution works in programming form creates programs that alter and change in ways very similar to animals (if much, much simpler than animals), evolutionary algorithms work.

Surtur
He has said before why he has a problem with it: because it's not in the bible. I'm being completely serious too.

Q99
Originally posted by Surtur
He has said before why he has a problem with it: because it's not in the bible. I'm being completely serious too.


The Atomic Weak Force isn't in the Bible either, but you can still die of radiation poisoning.

Heck, is magnetism in the Bible? I don't think it's mentioned once....

There's categories of life not mentioned but we still have samples of, because they weren't remotely relevant, but obviously still exist.


The Bible isn't even supposed to be a 'list of everything exists period.'



It strikes me as presumptuous to say that science is real and gods, except for this one part that one doesn't like, and excusing it from god's realm based on that. I don't think people are supposed to say God's stuff isn't God's?

Surtur
You act as if there is rational thought behind this. Though technically evolution doesn't contradict God, but it does contradict the bible.

psmith81992
No, it does not, unless you're claiming the theories contradict one another and aren't two different ways to explain the process.

Here you go:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/30/5-facts-about-evolution-and-religion/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution

https://biologos.org/blogs/archive/what-do-most-christians-really-believe-about-evolution

Oh, here's another one from the big cheese.

http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/god-is-not-a-magician-pope-says-christians-should-believe-in-evolution-and-big-bang/

I believe in creationism. I also believe in evolution (5th-6th biblical day). The two do not contradict. So while nobody is arguing the validity of your poll, the argument seems to be the conclusion you're making from it.


You make atheists look bad every time you make ignorant posts like that.

Surtur
The problem there is that it's only ignorant if it's not true.

psmith81992
I'm glad you at least have the sense to reconcile the two.

Q99
Here's pretty much the physicist-scientist reaction to comparing our understanding of gravity and evolution:

http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20110922.gif


Evolution, we have nice and steadily improving models. It's very complex so it can be a bit like predicting the weather, but we understand most of the forces involved, even if the interactions can sometimes surprise us. We know what determines features, and what causes those determining factors to change.


Gravity, we have some stuff but it trails off into ???, ?!?, !!!, and "Ok, *something* has to be wrong here..." depending on what direction you go into.

Beneath a certain scale, the equations we use simply don't work right with the equations of other forces we understand better.


On our scale of 'understanding stuff,' 1 to 10, if Evolution's an 8, gravity is, like, a 3.


Due to the fact that every living thing is evidence for evolution- as in, not just in a vague way, but if you study it's DNA and features you'll encounter clear signs of how it's changed- it's one of the more heavily proven bits of science.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Q99
Here's pretty much the physicist-scientist reaction to comparing our understanding of gravity and evolution:

http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20110922.gif


Evolution, we have nice and steadily improving models. It's very complex so it can be a bit like predicting the weather, but we understand most of the forces involved, even if the interactions can sometimes surprise us. We know what determines features, and what causes those determining factors to change.


Gravity, we have some stuff but it trails off into ???, ?!?, !!!, and "Ok, *something* has to be wrong here..." depending on what direction you go into.

Beneath a certain scale, the equations we use simply don't work right with the equations of other forces we understand better.


On our scale of 'understanding stuff,' 1 to 10, if Evolution's an 8, gravity is, like, a 3.


Due to the fact that every living thing is evidence for evolution- as in, not just in a vague way, but if you study it's DNA and features you'll encounter clear signs of how it's changed- it's one of the more heavily proven bits of science. thumb up

Surtur
Well you again just touched on why some people have a problem with it. In the bible God specifically created us, but with evolution all you could say is God created the primitive life that eventually evolved into humans over a very long period of time.

On top of that it makes humans seem not very significant.

Q99
Originally posted by Surtur
Well you again just touched on why some people have a problem with it. In the bible God specifically created us, but with evolution all you could say is God created the primitive life that eventually evolved into humans over a very long period of time.

Eh, method isn't specified.

If one can accept that god moved the continents into place via tectonic drift, why is evolution so hard?





Really, I think people have kinda a weird view on that sort of thing. I'm secular, so I'm perhaps not the best one to talk, but I think a lot of people think saying "We came from something less advanced, that means we are that thing and no better!" rather than, "We came from something less advance, we are better, we got to our current position- which is what it is no matter how we got here- and we don't have to stop here."

I view the fact that we can change to be a positive rather than a negative.


Heck, the Bible says people were made from dust, so that already has us coming from something much less significant than we are now.

red g jacks
Originally posted by psmith81992
No, it does not, unless you're claiming the theories contradict one another and aren't two different ways to explain the process.

Here you go:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/30/5-facts-about-evolution-and-religion/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution

https://biologos.org/blogs/archive/what-do-most-christians-really-believe-about-evolution

Oh, here's another one from the big cheese.

http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/god-is-not-a-magician-pope-says-christians-should-believe-in-evolution-and-big-bang/

I believe in creationism. I also believe in evolution (5th-6th biblical day). The two do not contradict. So while nobody is arguing the validity of your poll, the argument seems to be the conclusion you're making from it.
again... the survey was specifically about how many people believe/disbelieve in evolution. the people who believe in both god and evolution were listed as "believe in evolution with god guiding the process." the people who disbelieve in evolution were listed as believing that god created humans in their present form. to say that he created humans in their present form is not the same as saying he created evolution which eventually led to humans in their present form... i.e. "theistic evolution" and the other links you gave. those people are included in the survey under "believe in evolution with god guiding the process." the 43% figure that the survey title refers to are literally saying they believe god directly created human beings as they exist today with no intermediate evolutionary steps. i.e. it was a direct moment of creation, as is described in genesis.

pay a little closer attention to the poll options... the options essentially range from "evolution with no god involved" to "evolution with god involved" to "god with no evolution involved." to claim that the 43% in question who professed a belief that god created humans in their present form leaves room for evolution is to ignore the other options the poll gives you. those who believe in evolution explicitly fall into one of the other two options.

psmith81992
Originally posted by red g jacks
again... the survey was specifically about how many people believe/disbelieve in evolution. the people who believe in both god and evolution were listed as "believe in evolution with god guiding the process." the people who disbelieve in evolution were listed as believing that god created humans in their present form. to say that he created humans in their present form is not the same as saying he created evolution which eventually led to humans in their present form... i.e. "theistic evolution" and the other links you gave. those people are included in the survey under "believe in evolution with god guiding the process." the 43% figure that the survey title refers to are literally saying they believe god directly created human beings as they exist today. i.e. no evolution was involved, it was a direct moment of creation, as is described in genesis.

We can go back and forth but my position is the survey does not follow "Why is the theory of evolution considered a threat by certain Christians?".

We can argue ad nauseam whether creation and evolution can coexist/etc but that's not the conclusion you were drawing here.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Surtur
Well you again just touched on why some people have a problem with it. In the bible God specifically created us, but with evolution all you could say is God created the primitive life that eventually evolved into humans over a very long period of time.

On top of that it makes humans seem not very significant.
As opposed to the concept that humans are created by God simply to undergo a moral test?

red g jacks
Originally posted by psmith81992
We can go back and forth but my position is the survey does not follow "Why is the theory of evolution considered a threat by certain Christians?".

We can argue ad nauseam whether creation and evolution can coexist/etc but that's not the conclusion you were drawing here. i was citing stats on how many people disbelieve in evolution in the united states, nothing more. that was in response to the claim that christians who reject evolution are a small minority.

you're being dishonest and pretending those surveyed might believe in evolution... but all you have to do is read the survey question to see that you're wrong. the 3rd option that those people selected is that god created humans more or less in their present form roughly 10,000 years ago. there's no sidestepping the fact that this option contradicts some prominent aspects of modern science, especially evolution.

here's the survey again, for reference. try reading the survey question and tell me i'm wrong.

http://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/mh7klzb21ue_tb0a1h_86q.png

psmith81992
Fair enough


I'm not pretending anything. In fact, what I believe doesn't fit into any of those criteria. God having a hand in evolution =/= evolution and creationism being two different explanations for the same thing. To believe in only creationism is dumb, and I'm pretty religious.

quanchi112
PSmith what religion do you subscribe to ?

red g jacks
maybe you aren't pretending, but in that case you're just mistaken. the poll question makes it pretty clear the 3rd option is a rejection of evolution. if for no other reason than the fact that it specifies 10,000 years or so. but honestly most creationists realize what "god created humans in their present form" is supposed to mean... and it doesn't involve the idea that humans descended from bacteria.

Originally posted by psmith81992
God having a hand in evolution =/= evolution and creationism being two different explanations for the same thing. To believe in only creationism is dumb, and I'm pretty religious. that's a strange idea to me. how can they be two different explanations for the same thing with both being literally true and god not having a hand in evolution?

psmith81992
I'm Jewish


I call it God, you call it evolution. Two different explanations for the same event. I'm not saying God has a hand in evolution, that's an entirely different perspective.

red g jacks
but specifically you're saying evolution happened... and you call it god? but thats not god having a hand in evolution?

psmith81992
Originally posted by red g jacks
but specifically you're saying evolution happened... and you call it god? but thats not god having a hand in evolution?

No, god having a direct hand in evolution isn't the same thing as substituting "god" for "evolution". Both work.

red g jacks
right but i'm curious what the specific difference is.

do you think evolution is all there is to god? or is it just one aspect of god?

psmith81992
Originally posted by red g jacks
right but i'm curious what the specific difference is.

do you think evolution is all there is to god? or is it just one aspect of god?

One aspect. I don't actually believe God had a hand in evolution. That is, after the 6 days of creation, evolution took its course.

red g jacks
by the 6th day of creation, humans already existed right?

psmith81992
Originally posted by red g jacks
by the 6th day of creation, humans already existed right?

Adam and Eve were created on the 6th day. That doesn't account for neanderthals.

quanchi112
A show that's currently on Netflix has a wonderful brief explanation why evolution isn't just a theory and is solid proven science. Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey
Season 1 episode 2 around 24-30 minutes into the episode they explain why certain features of certain species have evolved. Those who deny this are rather simplistic and ignorant. It's downright laughable to oppose this solid science.

psmith81992
The ant eater.. That is all.

red g jacks
Originally posted by psmith81992
Adam and Eve were created on the 6th day. That doesn't account for neanderthals. so im assuming that by "day" you don't mean literal day

so assuming by 6 days you mean roughly however many billion years... then humans came about through evolution. and then god "let evolution take its course." but god is evolution. so god let god take its course?

either way it sounds like you're saying god basically guided the process up until the 6th day. which is when u say humans came about. so regarding the question on human origins... your view would ostensibly be that god guided the process of evolution, no?

Star428
Originally posted by psmith81992
Fair enough


I'm not pretending anything. In fact, what I believe doesn't fit into any of those criteria. God having a hand in evolution =/= evolution and creationism being two different explanations for the same thing. To believe in only creationism is dumb, and I'm pretty religious.



It's only dumb if you don't believe the Bible is the Word of God. Up until a few days ago I believed the same thing u did concerning creationism/evolution. I also thought that the six day creation was not a literal 6 days but millions or perhaps even billions of years but I was wrong about that too. I read the article below and a few others and it opened my eyes:


http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evolution%20Hoax/evolution_is_stupid.htm




The most relevant paragraph is the third one from the top. The notion of "theistic evolution" is just as stupid as evolution I learned. I didn't know about the "gap theory" that addresses the time period between Genesis 1:1 and GEnesis 1:2 but now I understand it perfectly and I'm happy I discovered that article that enlightened me. smile



There was a pre-Adamic period. That's when dinosaurs walked the earth. The pre-Adam period is what the world was like in GEnesis 1:1 when it said the "earth was without form and void. And darkness was upon the face of the deep."


There is literally nothing in the Bible that says or implies that evolution ever played a part in the universe developing. I realize that now.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Star428
It's only dumb if you don't believe the Bible is the Word of God. Up until a few days ago I believed the same thing u did concerning creationism/evolution. Then I read the article below and it opened my eyes:


http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evolution%20Hoax/evolution_is_stupid.htm




The most relevant paragraph is the third one from the top. The notion of "theistic evolution" is just as stupid as evolution. I didn't know about the gap theory that addresses what happens between Genesis 1:1 and GEnesis 1:2 but now I understand it perfectly and I'm happy I discovered that article that enlightened me. smile laughing out loud

Star428
The earth is billions of years old, of course. I'm not denying that but God didn't create Adam and Eve until approximately 4000 b.c.. That's when the creation of the world as we know it started in Genesis 1:2.

Q99
Originally posted by Star428
The earth is billions of years old, of course. I'm not denying that but God didn't create Adam and Eve until approximately 4000 b.c..

There's settlements older than that....


And let's push that bit off to the side for a minute. Put humans in the 'poof' box, so to speak.

There's the vast evidence of evolution in everything else, both ancient and recent.

Like, the London Underground Mosquito's developed into a new species with different characteristics from it's source in the last few centuries. Even in young-earth, life-for-only-thousands-of-years you'd have evolution.


The existence of evolution is not reliant on how much time is spent evolving.

Any more than the existence of plate tectonics is reliant on how long the earth has been around- if the earth had poofed into existence last year, you'd still have earthquakes, volcanos, and slight continental movement. Ditto for evolution.

quanchi112
Star won't ever get it and will cover his eyes and scream, heretic.

Star428
Quan, why don't you stick to trolling in the CBvF and the MvF since you obviously don't know what you're talking about on this subject? There is no vampire Viktor for you to exalt in the religion forum so why do u care so much about it? I'm not entertaining any of your replies anyway (nor any of the other trolling atheist posters really) so you're just wasting your time.

Q99
Originally posted by psmith81992
The ant eater.. That is all.


That's a good one.

One example I like is orchids, because they change relatively easily, but also hang onto traits.


Most orchids do not have spongy roots- and for an obvious reason, they provide no benefit for orchids in the soil.


Some orchids, however, grow on trees, and have spongy roots, which collect rainwater much better. Makes sense so far, right?


Then there's also some orchids that are on the ground, but has spongy roots... and have other traits that show they're closer related to the tree ones.


Or in other words, what happens is we have species of orchids who live entirely on the ground with a trait they don't need on the ground, which fairly obviously, comes from them being descended from ones that grew in trees, but came back down to the soil at some point.


So you can have three species, all similar but distinct, two soil dwelling, one tree dwelling, with a clear progression between them.

In some cases, the tree ancestor has gone extinct but neither soil dweller does, so you see two similar species living right near each other, one with spongy roots that don't seem to do anything special and one without, and unless you study, it just seems kinda odd, but once you know the history it makes perfect sense.



More recently, we gained the ability to check the DNA, and get independent confirmation telling us that's what happens.

Bentley
Originally posted by Star428
Then I don't know what to tell u ,Bentley.. I can't help u if you're so set on thinking that not believing in divine creation is no big deal. THere's nothing to discuss here. We're done. God/Christ/THe Word created the universe. THat's not some minor insignificant detail to Christianity. It's HUGE. Anyone who believes in the lie of evolution has either been deceived or they are just stubborn and they will burn in Hell for denying that God created the universe.

Again, when you say it like this is as if you expected Christ (who died for our sins) to send you to hell based in the results of a history quiz.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Star428
Quan, why don't you stick to trolling in the CBvF and the MvF since you obviously don't know what you're talking about on this subject? There is no vampire Viktor for you to exalt in the religion forum so why do u care so much about it? I'm not entertaining any of your replies anyway so you're just wasting your time. You are constantly proven incorrect on pretty much every ignorant thing you say. You can't even answer my questions. Why do human beings feel pain ? Your idea of a never ending eternity of torment makes no sense and is contradicted by your own dual sided religion. Let's discuss things though because every time evidence is presented you just spout more nonsense and won't answer any questions. It's painfully obvious you don't know the answers.

Bentley
Originally posted by quanchi112
You are constantly proven incorrect on pretty much every ignorant thing you say. You can't even answer my questions. Why do human beings feel pain ? Your idea of a never ending eternity of torment makes no sense and is contradicted by your own dual sided religion. Let's discuss things though because every time evidence is presented you just spout more nonsense and won't answer any questions. It's painfully obvious you don't know the answers.

Or you could use proper threads and PMs to deal with those off topic things?

I've heard those work too shifty

Star428
Originally posted by Bentley
Again, when you say it like this is as if you expected Christ (who died for our sins) to send you to hell based in the results of a history quiz.




Don't put words in my mouth, Bentley. I never said or implied that and your pathetic attempts at trying to confuse me are starting to annoy me because I"m beginning to think you're one of those who're deliberately trying to deceive believers. I have no patience for people like that. You did say u were Catholic didn't u? Is that why you're trying so hard to attack what I consider to be extremely important? I'm beginning to think Catholics are just as bad as their "leader" now in trying to deceive people.



You will never convince me that believing in creationism as opposed to evolution is not an extremely important part of being Christian, Bentley, so I don't understand why you're persisting in continuing to bring it up unless it's just to try and upset me or make me question my beliefs. I regard that as an insult to my intelligence and willpower when someone thinks they can make me change what I strongly believe in. Just a friendly reminder.

Star428
OK, Quan. You're on ignore now. For good this time.

Bentley
Originally posted by Star428
You did say u were Catholic didn't u? Is that why you're trying so hard to attack what I consider to be extremely important? I'm beginning to think Catholics are just as bad as their "leader" now in trying to deceive people.

No, actually I'm trying to understand exactly your stance. Don't take my questions and interjections as some gesture to shoot down your beliefs, that'd be a horrible misdeed from me and I'm very much aware of that. My expression can sound more aggresive that I actually intend it to be.

What I want is to further my understanding of my own beliefs by inspiring and knowing those of others. If I don't hold this kind of discussion there is little opportunity. Anyways, I always try to keep things intellectually honest, if I slip here and there I beg you to call me on my mistakes!

Originally posted by Star428
You will never convince me that believing in creationism as opposed to evolution is not an extremely important part of being Christian, Bentley, so I don't understand why you're persisting in continuing to bring it up unless it's just to try and upset me or make me question my beliefs. I regard that as an insult to my intelligence and willpower when someone thinks they can make me change what I strongly believe in. Just a friendly reminder.

No problem man. For me believing that God created the universe it's fundamental, as you said. The belief on evolution is irrelevant for salvation (unless it attacks a more important article of faith) so I wouldn't put it in the same level. I'm aware than between those general lines there are a wide arrange of beliefs and convictions, my intention isn't to sort them out as better or worse between them.

Edit: The quiz part was a joke, I felt that it was self-evident but I can be bad at reading the mood :P

Star428
Ok. I agree that believing in creationism isn't integral to salvation. I shouldn't have said earlier that it was.. Sorry about that. I do think it's very important though.

Bardock42
Originally posted by psmith81992
The ant eater.. That is all.

Wait, are you trolling? You do believe in Evolution, right?

Genesis-Soldier
"Why is the theory of evolution considered a threat by certain Christians?"


kinda simple kinda not

in reality christians had ALOT of power in medieval times due to the poor/ most being unable to read and the "scholarly" monks could. the bible was seen and praised as a gateway to heaven which is what most people wanted. this gained movement and the power of the church grew. "God is divine as he made man with no equal" i THIINK is the quote , if god is divine and we are created in his image then we ourselves are by extention also divine. evolution saying we are ancestored with monkeys tends to put off this idea or want to believe that we are divine.

^this is the historical view

nowdays christians against evolution can simply be from deep rooted beliefs instilled on them. its kinda like morals, you sometimes can't explain why something is wrong but you believe it is wrong all the same

Bentley
Originally posted by Star428
Ok. I agree that believing in creationism isn't integral to salvation. I shouldn't have said earlier that it was.. Sorry about that. I do think it's very important though.

Fair enough thumb up

psmith81992
Originally posted by Bardock42
Wait, are you trolling? You do believe in Evolution, right? Yes lol.. But I do like to bring up the ant eater as a "WTF" to evolution.


If anyone wants a reconciliation of "7 days of creation" and the age of the universe, listen to lectures from Dr. Gerald Schroeder.

Bardock42
Originally posted by psmith81992
Yes lol.. But I do like to bring up the ant eater as a "WTF" to evolution.


If anyone wants a reconciliation of "7 days of creation" and the age of the universe, listen to lectures from Dr. Gerald Schroeder.

Do you think the ant eater actually is a WTF for Evolution though?

psmith81992
Originally posted by Bardock42
Do you think the ant eater actually is a WTF for Evolution though?

http://photos.zoochat.com/large/09337-202025.jpg

YOU tell me

Bashar Teg
Yes or no would do

psmith81992
Would I what?

Bardock42
Well, the ant bear is a funny looking animal, but really, partly because of that, it's a great illustration how evolution works, isn't it?

Bashar Teg
Doesnt seem like you'll get,a straight answer

psmith81992
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
Doesnt seem like you'll get,a straight answer

He already got one. Just because you can't speak english when you ask ridiculous nonsensical questions, doesn't mean I've left it open ended. You've got to stop embarrassing yourself like this.





http://orig10.deviantart.net/29db/f/2012/134/3/6/facepalm_2x_by_stevesjobes-d4zpcje.jpg

Bashar Teg
See?

psmith81992
https://theintelligentfan.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/swing-and-a-miss-edited.png

Bardock42
Well, my question is more about what the joke is. Since you believe in evolution, and the ant bear is such a beautiful and obvious illustration of evolution, I don't get the punchline really. And someone who doesn't believe in evolution, like Star for example, will take your "joke" and run with it at face value (case in point the banana-hand proof of intelligent design)

psmith81992
Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, my question is more about what the joke is. Since you believe in evolution, and the ant bear is such a beautiful and obvious illustration of evolution, I don't get the punchline really. And someone who doesn't believe in evolution, like Star for example, will take your "joke" and run with it at face value (case in point the banana-hand proof of intelligent design)

Hence the trolling, lol. Wait, you think the ant eater is beautiful? Lol

It's a joke like I would make about Al Capone being put in jail because the government claimed he didn't pay taxes on untaxable income. It's funny but not very accurate.

red g jacks
evolution doesn't necessarily create beauty though... it creates functionality

god is the one who is supposed to create beauty

so if the ant eater was created by god he must've been on drugs at the time

Bardock42
Originally posted by psmith81992
Hence the trolling, lol. Wait, you think the ant eater is beautiful? Lol

It's a joke like I would make about Al Capone being put in jail because the government claimed he didn't pay taxes on untaxable income. It's funny but not very accurate.
Okay, I guess that makes sense, though I don't see the humor there so much.

A bit more on topic, why do you think that so many people in the US do not believe in evolution?

Bashar Teg
Originally posted by psmith81992
https://theintelligentfan.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/swing-and-a-miss-edited.png

i was addressing the same question bardock was asking. (do you actually consider the anteater to be some sort of evolutionary cockup).


you wear your rage on your sleeve. sooo....perhaps you'd like to get madder and post more pictures?

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