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Setting: Endor forests

* Kun gets his amulets.
* No amp/prep time.

Who wins this Force only fight?

Tbh, team 2 though not by a whole lot. Vitiate can easily combat Kun and take him out with not too much trouble. HoT and Kyp is a very close fight and probably isn't decided soon enough for either to make a difference in the fight. What mainly decides it is whether 'killa can kill Revan faster than Viti can take out Kun. I'm not entirely sure who will get kilt first tho, kuz I'm fairly certain 'killa can overpower Revan but I'm not sure how much stronger he is. 'Killa definitely has slightly stronger TK but otherwise I think Revan has decent enough defense that he can hold out longer than Kun, which will really be the deciding factor. Kun and Vitiate will most likely be decided by who can attack faster. Vitiate is definitely stronger, though the amulets would probably have a similar if not greater effect on him as Revan's perfect balance blast thing, though if Vitiate can use a powerful attack quickly then he definitely plows over Kun.

Team 1, LAWL.

Team 1.

SK or Kyp could oneshot Hero

Huh.

Originally posted by Stigma
Huh.

I wonder can Kyp throw a blackhole at Viti?

That, or he pimp slaps him using a space freighter as a telekinetic baseball bat.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
That, or he pimp slaps him using a space freighter as a telekinetic baseball bat.

Yeah. Because a Force User that has absorbed the power of 8,000 Sith Lords would of course be total useless when it comes down to telekinesis, which is almost entirely based on utilizing raw power.

And Vitiate can probably solo this by mindraping the opposing team. Still haven't seen any argument that prevents him from doing that to anybody who hasn't encountered him before.

I hear each and every one of those Sith Lords was a mook. No?


Out of curiosity, has Vitiate TK'ed something comparable to a blackhole?

I don't know what's more retarded; the fact you thought I was being serious with the above post, or the fact you believe Vitiate can solo this.

mmm mmm mmm mmm

Originally posted by Stigma
I hear each and every one of those Sith Lords was a mook. No?


Out of curiosity, has Vitiate TK'ed something comparable to a blackhole?
Yeah, Duronn's telekinetic power would need to be in the million ton range to move something that completely atomizes 1,600 meter long vessels. If not more.

Originally posted by Stigma
I hear each and every one of those Sith Lords was a mook. No?


Sure. Because Sith Lords, who grew up in an enviroment where a considerable amount of power was already needed to even reach that position / title, tend to be "mooks".



When has Kyp done something like that. There is a difference between manipulating animals that do generate effects similar to that of a black hole and actually manipulating a black hole.

@Deronn_solo:

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
I don't know what's more retarded


The answer is clearly: "You."

And thanks for attempting to challenge my reasoning with an elaborated argument on how any of Team 1 would "resist" Vitiate's mind-control, when Revan and Malak where overwhelmed by it at the same time.



Science is not your friend...

Says Kun beats Sidious

Has Vitiate soloing a team that consists of Kun and 2 of the most powerful raw force users in the mythos.

Vitiate>>>>>Kun>Sidious tbh.

Originally posted by Trocity
Says Kun beats Sidious

Has Vitiate soloing a team that consists of Kun and 2 of the most powerful raw force users in the mythos.

Vitiate>>>>>Kun>Sidious tbh.

Incapable of abstract reasoning and analytical thinking.

Still keeps posting.

Pretty dull, tbh.

You do realize, that I'm just here to stir debate and are not entitled to defending my private opinion, as is evident by my user title? Probably not. But please continue the "fun".

Originally posted by Nai
Incapable of abstract reasoning and analytical thinking.

Still keeps posting.

Yes, I've noticed; why are you still posting?

Originally posted by Nai
The answer is clearly: "You."


That's what you mom said last night, when I asked her "who's your daddy" tbh.

Originally posted by Nai
And thanks for attempting to challenge my reasoning with an elaborated argument on how any of Team 1 would "resist" Vitiate's mind-control, when Revan and Malak where overwhelmed by it at the same time.


Don't have to challenge your reasoning with an elaborate argument, because you didn't actually make an argument yourself. Just a statement. Eye for an eye and all that shit, ya know.

Originally posted by Nai
Science is not your friend...


Elaborate on why my wank is wrong, Nai the Science Guy. I'm all ears over here.

Originally posted by Trocity
Yes, I've noticed; why are you still posting?

Why did you even start, given you have nothing to say?

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
That's what you mom said last night, when I asked her "who's your daddy" tbh.


Oh. "Your mom" jokes. Given that I could be your daddy, I'm probably the wrong person to address in that fashion. So why don't we get off of mothers - I just got off of yours.



Wow. Are you that dense? Seriously?

Just for you: The argument was that, since Vitiate was capable of controlling the minds of Revan and Malak at the same time, I don't see why he couldn't do it to virtually everyone else. I specifically asked for an argument that would refute that idea. No answer.



Margaritas ante porcos.
I've already explained it: There is a difference between animals that generate effects similar to that of a black hole and an actual black hole. And in the latter case, your "wank" would be several orders of magnitude too low, while it is probably far too high for what actually happened. Which is usually the case when people attempt to apply "science" to force feats that look really impressive at first glance.

Team 1.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Team 1.

I'm going to get to that AIDS worthy shit sometimes tomorrow, Nai.
LAWL.

Somebody just get the quote saying Vitiate can't Mind Control in a fight without specific preparations first.

Yeah, I was going to post that in my up-coming reply, KEK.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
I'm going to get to that AIDS worthy shit sometimes tomorrow, Nai.
LAWL.

Given your description of something as "AIDS worthy", I'm not sure, if I should look forward to the vomit in written form you may come up with. Don't dislocate your synapses.

Originally posted by Nai
Given your description of something as "AIDS worthy", I'm not sure, if I should look forward to the vomit in written form you may come up with. Don't dislocate your synapses.

Hey, it's no one fault but your owns, that your argument physically destroy my immune system with bullshit.

I think the most AIDS worthy part was the "Vitaite can control anyone's mind part," which doesn't even happen in game or the novel, where he can't control anyone relatively powerful or strong willed, including, oddly enough, Revan.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Somebody just get the quote saying Vitiate can't Mind Control in a fight without specific preparations first.

LAWL.

Upon searching for the quote, I've discovered through an anonymous source - that the quote is faker than Kim Kardashians ass, bruh.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Hey, it's no one fault but your owns, that your argument physically destroy my immune system with bullshit.

One should assume that your immune system doesn't react to bullshit any longer, considering how much of it is crammed between your ears.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Upon searching for the quote, I've discovered through an anonymous source - that the quote is faker than Kim Kardashians ass, bruh.


Good job, noob.


Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I think the most AIDS worthy part was the "Vitaite can control anyone's mind part," which doesn't even happen in game or the novel, where he can't control anyone relatively powerful or strong willed, including, oddly enough, Revan.

Because Revan was under his influence before and - hence - did know a way to resist the effect, which he taught Meetra and Scourge. This is all explicitly mentioned in the novel. He still feels Vitiate's attempt to dominate his mind while they are fighting, though.

And it doesn't happen in the game? You may want to ask the Hero of Tython and the other members of the strike team that was sent to capture Vitiate, which ended with them being turned into puppets of the Emperor. You may also ask the people on Ziost, including a squad of Jedi Knights, who Vitiate likewise turned into puppets without much effort. Or ask Vitiate's children. Or his Voice.

There is still no example of Vitiate failing with his ability against somebody who hasn't encountered it before. And he has used it successfully against rather powerful people, who were known for their high willpower (e.g. Revan), making it rather unlikely that somebody would just "resist" it.

Originally posted by Nai

There is still no example of Vitiate failing with his ability against somebody who hasn't encountered it before. And he has used it successfully against rather powerful people, who were known for their high willpower (e.g. Revan), making it rather unlikely that somebody would just "resist" it.
Ziost is full of examples of people Vitiate couldn't dominate that never once even talked to him, let alone was mindraped by him. Lana even specifically states Vitiate gave up on trying to dominate her.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Ziost is full of examples of people Vitiate couldn't dominate that never once even talked to him, let alone was mindraped by him. Lana even specifically states Vitiate gave up on trying to dominate her.

Are you ignoring the context on purpose?
Vitiate comes to Ziost as a discorporate spirit, takes over dozens of people at the same time and starts killing others, feeding on their deaths. Taking over more people would have been senseless, which doesn't mean that it was out of the question for him. Controlling dozens of bodys in a coordinated fashion (when most people are ocassionally inable to do that with their own) is rather impressive. And that he gave up trying to dominate Lana could have multiple reasons, starting with Vitiate enjoying the fact that some people were stuggling against his plan, without making any difference at all.

This, apparently, while still operating his "Valkorion" character at the same time.

Still. None of that applies to a situation, in which Vitiate would be there in person to dominate one, two or three people.

Originally posted by Nai
Are you ignoring the context on purpose?
Vitiate comes to Ziost as a discorporate spirit, takes over dozens of people at the same time and starts killing others, feeding on their deaths. Taking over more people would have been senseless, which doesn't mean that it was out of the question for him. Controlling dozens of bodys in a coordinated fashion (when most people are ocassionally inable to do that with their own) is rather impressive. And that he gave up trying to dominate Lana could have multiple reasons, starting with Vitiate enjoying the fact that some people were stuggling against his plan, without making any difference at all.

Except that doesn't make any sense at all because Lana is evacuating, and is the only one evacuating I might add, the people he's killing off the planet. Allowing her to continue to have free will would be utterly retarded. The rest of that is a bunch of baseless speculation. There's only one person Vitiate is actually interested in, and it's not Lana. Also, being a spirit makes it easier for Vitiate to control others, not harder.

If he can eat an entire planet, he should be able to dominate the will of any one person if his power was the actual limitation here.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
LAWL.

Upon searching for the quote, I've discovered through an anonymous source - that the quote is faker than Kim Kardashians ass, bruh.


Jack posted it on CV once. It was an email response from Drew Karpyshyn.

He admitted it was fake today.

lmfao

IIRC doesn't it say that Vitiate took control of all the people on Ziost except for the few exceptions? Gotta be more than a couple dozen.

Originally posted by Nephthys
IIRC doesn't it say that Vitiate took control of all the people on Ziost except for the few exceptions? Gotta be more than a couple dozen.
He didn't take over that many people, but it was definitely hundreds of thousands, as well as the fleet and Jedi that Saresh sent. He mainly just wanted the people who have guns and lightsabers under his control.

Indeed, Vitiate via his Voice telepathically dominated the Jedi strike team. All whilst using his power to subdue his daughter Vaylin's powers from her own senses. Power and will he deemed too similar to his own.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Except that doesn't make any sense at all because Lana is evacuating, and is the only one evacuating I might add, the people he's killing off the planet. Allowing her to continue to have free will would be utterly retarded.


Utterly retarded in the sense of Bond-villains revealing their plans instead of just killing the super spy to have their plan foiled later? Utterly retarded in the sense of Vitiate letting the people on the planet do their "job" which, as we all know, has no consequences at all to his grand plan?



It makes it easier for him to use his force powers, when not having a host body with midi-chlorians (a.k.a a connection to the Force) around? That seems to be "baseless speculation".



Maybe the limitation was the fact, that he did already have a host of beings under his direct control and hence wasn't capable on mustering the reserves needed to dominate the more powerful ones. The Jedi Knight he does possess also manages to "fight" his domination at one point in the storyline.

But such things wouldn't apply in a versus fight. And it stands to reason, that a being that is capable of dominating powerful force users and likewise capable of domination thousands of people at once, wouldn't face much problems when trying to dominate one or two powerful force users.

Durron has already had experience being possessed/controlled by Kun and becomes quite the TP powerhouse. Kun himself has willpower to the extreme in this contest. Starkiller is a good target here for Vitiate though.

Telepathy is highly unlikely to win this match, Vitiate also isn't going to underestimate guys like Kun so I doubt he'd even attempt it here.

Kun could dispose the Hero with his techniques but to do that he needs Starkiller to hold off Vitiate and hope Durron can hold against Revan. If Kun can kill the HoT fast enough then team 1 can win, otherwise we are looking at one major powerhouse and two minor powerhouses vs two majors and one minor.

Vitiate TP's while Revan and HoT destroy Kun. Not even a good fight.

Vitiate is not TPing Durron, Starkiller is however much more likely. But this all assumes Vitiate has the chance to try and would do so given one.

How does being possessed by Kun support the "Vitiate can't TP him" claim again?

Team 2 solidly.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Durron has already had experience being possessed/controlled by Kun and becomes quite the TP powerhouse.


Durron was not exactly posessed by Kun, but just influenced. That is an entirely different matter compared to Vitiate's usual mind-domination. And being good at TP also won't save him, if even the Dread Masters bow before Vitiate.



More than Revan, Malak or both of them combined? I don't think so.



Which would turn this into a 4 on 2, where I don't even think Team 1 can take it in a fair fight, totally ignoring Vitiate's TP.



He attempted it against Revan and Malak, and while the its only mentioned from Revan's POV in the Revan-Novel, it stands to reason, that he tried it on Meetra too - perhabs even Scourge, when they challenged him. There was a reason why Revan taught them how to put up some defense against Vitiate's TP.
And once again, I can just point to the strike team confronting Vitiate, that was instantly downed and mind-controlled by him with apparent ease.



Starkiller is - at best - slightly above (Legends) Vader level. How do you think he's going to "hold off Vitiate" exactly? And, yes, it is possible that Kun can take out the HoT, but I doubt it would be going fast. And it is also rather questionable, if Durron can last long against Revan in both Force and Sabers. To me, Vitiate's team still holds the advantage in terms of Force abilities and lightsaber combat. With the possibility, that Vitiate could win this on his own via TP.

Well Kun has dominated the minds of armies, has an amulet designed to enforce his will(among other things), survived four millennia off of willpower and was influencing the minds of a number of powerful individuals throughout his existence. Vitiate is not dominating someone as powerful as Exar Kun.

Vitiate most certainly did not attempt to telepathically attack Meetra as he wasn't even aware of his impending death at the hands of her lightsaber throw, he then sized her up before Revan healed himself.

Kyp Durron had been influenced massively by Kun, when Kun was banished Kyp went from Dark Side enraged lunatic to absolutely no corruption at all. This experience was said by Luke to make him very wise on matters such as those and his will grew far more powerful over the decades he improved.

Telepathy won't win the match, it'll take sheer power to do that, which is all dependant on match ups. Remember that as soon as Vitiate realised how powerful his enemy was he went all-out on Revan.

The one way I see team 1 winning is Exar Kun using his viper technique to completely incapacitate the HoT. Then moving on to Vitiate himself and helping out Starkiller. Kyp Durron should certainly hold out long enough against Revan.

On the point of Starkiller, he can hold his own here if he calls upon his outlier feats. Otherwise he's little more than a very annoying distraction.

Originally posted by Nai
it stands to reason, that he tried it on Meetra too - perhabs even Scourge, when they challenged him. There was a reason why Revan taught them how to put up some defense against Vitiate's TP.


Ehh, not necessarily. A much more powerful incarnation of Scourge makes it clear that he can't resist the Emperor's influence.

Kun has dominated the minds of armies?

Nah.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Kun has dominated the minds of armies?

Probably referencing the enslavement of the Massassi.

Guess Revan dominated the minds of Maasassi too then, kek.

And Malaphar? Alchemical abomination made by Revan.

Worldbreaker Monolith >>

TBF, Theron says Malaphar is probably an alchemical creation made by the Revanites, so it being a product of Revan is rather likely following his logic.

Maybe I should add that to my thread? mmm

Originally posted by SunRazer
Probably referencing the enslavement of the Massassi.

Not to mention about 10,000 senators. Oh and he pulled a Vitiate on the Massassi during the ritual so yeah.

That's not really an army.

And I doubt it.
That's like saying Revan dominated the minds of all the Revanites since they were ultra-loyal to him and ready to be mutated / die for his cause of mass genocide.

Malaphar? Kun created the Massassi Abominations in the first place. He also changed Battle Hydras, made Terentateks and all sorts of other shit.

But yeh Monoliths take the cake.

Nadd killing physical! Sadow is

Kun's other alchemical monsters were pretty cool. Revan's Malaphar was probably better than them all though, LMFAO. Pretty embarrassing if Revan, who isn't an alchemist, is outclassing Kun in even that front.

Gharj >>>

Terentateks were pretty legendary, tbh.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That's not really an army.

And I doubt it.
That's like saying Revan dominated the minds of all the Revanites since they were ultra-loyal to him and ready to be mutated / die for his cause of mass genocide.

It's 10,000 non-Force sensitives.

No, he controlled them in unison and drained their power to start his ritual and become a disembodied will. Kun led the Massassi himself.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Kun's other alchemical monsters were pretty cool. Revan's Malaphar was probably better than them all though, LMFAO. Pretty embarrassing if Revan, who isn't an alchemist, is outclassing Kun in even that front.

Gharj >>>

KEEEEK Dark Reaper >>>>>>> Malaphar.

Proof on 10,000?

Proof? And that was only accomplished by sitting on the mother of all nexus'.
Sounds like more of your Kun forgery, kek.

Originally posted by AncientPower
KEEEEK Dark Reaper > Malaphar.
Since when is the Dark Reaper being considered an alchemical creature, LMFAO.

Soa and Valkorion are the greatest alchemists, that is all.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Proof on 10,000?

Proof? And that was only accomplished by sitting on the mother of all nexus'.
Sounds like more of your Kun forgery, kek.

The old senate building is supposedly capable of holding 10,000 people and given that in images the place is filled to breaking point then logically he hypnotized 10,000 senators.

You mean the 1,000s of sacrifices that he drained to start the ritual in the first place? That is called death field. His will power was projected through the Massassi.

You mean the temples he built and completed to channel his power? yep. Also take into consideration that Exar Kun's presence on Yavin IV would have been a massive boon to the Dark Side energies sensed there by SoR.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Since when is the Dark Reaper being considered an alchemical creature, LMFAO.

It's still alchemy? What's with your ridiculous limitations tbh. Oh and all the temples Revan had been using? Kun either completed or outright built via his alchemical mastery.

Like I said, I want a source that says it's capable of holding that many people, since your record for accurate information is the same as my cat's expertise in Calculus. And Wookieepedia doesn't count.

I'm not following how using widespread Force Drain via a ritual is clocking in at "controlled them in unison" and "Kun led the Maasassi himself," unless you're saying he summoned them all there personally.

Originally posted by AncientPower
It's still alchemy? What's with your ridiculous limitations tbh. Oh and all the temples Revan had been using? Kun either completed or outright built via his alchemical mastery.
LMFAO what? How is a superweapon comparable to a discussion on who can create the greatest alchemical monster. I doubt there's even a source saying Kun built that, btw.

And nah, it seems the Temple of Sacrifice was made by Naga Sadow and his crew: " The Massassi built massive temples for Sadow where they sacrificed their own in his honor."

And like the temples, nothing suggests Kun actually built them. Every source says he ordered the Maasassi to build them based on the blueprints left behind by past ancients.

Perhaps you should look for yourself:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/4292528-senate+crowd.png

The ritual did not cause the Force Drain, Exar Kun drained from thousands of his sacrifices and then the ritual itself began. You realise Naga Sadow did the same thing? Massassi Abominations are directed by the will of the Dark Lord they serve.

New accolade: Revan is a "Dark Lord."

0/10 photogenism

Originally posted by AncientPower
Perhaps you should look for yourself:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/4292528-senate+crowd.png
Looking. Where is the big 10,000?

Plus, you were bluntly exaggerating with "dominated the minds of armies."

Freezing them is not really that much of a domination compared to actually getting them to do stuff.

And "armies" is obviously suggesting something more powerful than a bunch of non-Force sensitives.

And obviously he couldn't affect the minds of any of the Jedi there either so that's pretty embarrassing.

Originally posted by AncientPower
The ritual did not cause the Force Drain, Exar Kun drained from thousands of his sacrifices and then the ritual itself began. You realise Naga Sadow did the same thing? Massassi Abominations are directed by the will of the Dark Lord they serve.
The draining is also a ritual too. He's literally strapped to a giant pyramid.

Not sure what you mean by the second part since you're being incredibly vague.

going to bed tho, night all

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
LMFAO what? How is a superweapon comparable to a discussion on who can create the greatest alchemical monster. I doubt there's even a source saying Kun built that, btw.

And nah, it seems the Temple of Sacrifice was made by Naga Sadow and his crew: " The Massassi built massive temples for Sadow where they sacrificed their own in his honor."

And like the temples, nothing suggests Kun actually built them. Every source says he ordered the Maasassi to build them based on the blueprints left behind by past ancients.

You claimed Revan was a greater alchemist, I am proving you hopelessly wrong.

Firstly, regarding the claim Naga Sadow made the Massassi Abominations. Incorrect:



-Credit to ILS

The Dark Reaper was indeed created by Exar Kun:



Exar Kun was infact responsible for completing and expanding the Temples across Yavin IV:

Yeah, you're using sources from decades ago. I'm using sources directly from SOR, kek.

SOR says Naga enslaved and mutated the Maasassi, and he built the temples near Revan.

So tell me, which one do you think is more credible in terms of a Revan alchemy debate?

The one from Shadow of Revan, or the one from like 1995?

Originally posted by AncientPower
You claimed Revan was a greater alchemist, I am proving you hopelessly wrong.
All you really got so far was that Kun did what Naga already did, and that he made a superweapon which I'm not calling "alchemy," kek.

I still have doubts he had anything to do with the superweapon other than finding the blueprints from previous Sith since that's sort of his thing.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Looking. Where is the big 10,000?

Plus, you were bluntly exaggerating with "dominated the minds of armies."

Freezing them is not really that much of a domination compared to actually getting them to do stuff.

And "armies" is obviously suggesting something more powerful than a bunch of non-Force sensitives.

And obviously he couldn't affect the minds of any of the Jedi there either so that's pretty embarrassing.


The draining is also a ritual too. He's literally strapped to a giant pyramid.

Not sure what you mean by the second part since you're being incredibly vague.

Are your eyes that bad or is visual deduction difficult for you? That is clearly thousands if not tens of thousands. Given that this is the Galactic Senate and every star system in the Republic has a representative there. I mean seriously.

Freezing that many people with a gesture and continuing to do so whilst stomping Vodo Siosk-Baas and ragdolling Sylvar is very impressive actually.

An army of non-force sensitives or a chamber filled with them is hardly relevant given that they are non-force sensitives regardless.

Your lowballing is pitiful.

No it isn't, he was prepared for the ritual and drained the power he needed to fuel the objects he was strapped to. As so:

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Yeah, you're using sources from decades ago. I'm using sources directly from SOR, kek.

SOR says Naga enslaved and mutated the Maasassi, and he built the temples near Revan.

So tell me, which one do you think is more credible in terms of a Revan alchemy debate?

The one from Shadow of Revan, or the one from like 1995?

That would be relevant if any contradictions were made, but as there are none this is you grasping at straws.

Exar Kun learnt everything that Naga Sadow and Freedon Nadd did and improved upon them in every way. Including the temples Sadow failed to complete, the Massassi that Kun improved upon and imbued them with Dark Side powers. Then he created the Golden Globe, trapping the spirits of thousands of Massassi children for Kun to drain from at his leisure. Yet another alchemical achievement on Kun's part.

Revan is a better alchemist how exactly?

You're missing the point, which is this: Don't say "10,000" when you have literally no backing for it. You're simply eyeballing it. You directly said that "it is supposedly capable of holding 10,000 people," suggesting you had a source to back you up, but it ends up you were utterly bluffing and making shit up - again. You should have just said "a shit ton of people" or "hundreds to thousands."


Color me unimpressed given his intention clearly was freezing people and he couldn't freeze any Jedi. Sources directly make notice that he freezed all the senator BUT not the Jedi. And given you were trying to argue about that and his godly TP against Vitiate or whatever whatever, it is certainly relevant to the debate.


OMG, lmfao. I can't believe you're literally trying to argue that Kun's draining of the Maasassi wasn't via ritual.

And no, the quote you said doesn't contradict me. "The ritual begun" is referring to the immortality ritual. That doesn't mean he didn't do a drain ritual beforehand.

If he didn't need a ritual to mass-drain all those Maasassi, he wouldn't have had to of strapped himself up in the giant pyramid before hand.


You're the textbook definition of retard at this point.

CONTRADICTION A: Exar Kun alchemically twisted the Maasassi vs Naga Sadow alchemically twisting the Maasassi.
CONTRADICTION B: Exar Kun built the giant temples near Revan vs Naga Sadow built the giant temples near Revan.

To lump this in with your next sentence, nothing says that "Naga started it and Kun finished it." You're so obviously changing your argument here.

To cover myself before you managed to find some random quote that says that, SOR makes it clear Naga's temples and Maasassi were fully functional and complete.

And if Kun did improve / finish on him, he's going to be going off of the blueprints Sadow left behind for them anyway, so hardly that omgoshawesome.


Seriously about to kill myself. This isn't "alchemy," at least not the "alchemy" everyone is discussing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cHmQx-gvDM&t=1m40s

Exar Kun's crew: The mini guys labeled "Feral Maasassi."
Revan's crew: The guy that is like 3 times their size.

And lmfao, everyone and their mother knows I'm being trolly when saying Revan's a better alchemist overall than Kun.
I just find it hilarious that Revan potentially has a better feat than anything Kun has despite not being renowned for his alchemy skills at all.
And before you ***** again, no, I'm not considering the Dark Reaper and the Golden Globe as "alchemy" in our discussion over creatures.

NOTE: I'm well aware I spelled Maasassi wrong the whole time. I'm tired and now officially going to bed. I'll respond tomorrow.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66

You're missing the point, which is this: Don't say "10,000" when you have literally no backing for it. You're simply eyeballing it. You directly said that "it is supposedly capable of holding 10,000 people," suggesting you had a source to back you up, but it ends up you were utterly bluffing and making shit up - again. You should have just said "a shit ton of people" or "hundreds to thousands."


Color me unimpressed given his intention clearly was freezing people and he couldn't freeze any Jedi. Sources directly make notice that he freezed all the senator BUT not the Jedi. And given you were trying to argue about that and his godly TP against Vitiate or whatever whatever, it is certainly relevant to the debate.


OMG, lmfao. I can't believe you're literally trying to argue that Kun's draining of the Maasassi wasn't via ritual.

And no, the quote you said doesn't contradict me. "The ritual begun" is referring to the immortality ritual. That doesn't mean he didn't do a drain ritual beforehand.

If he didn't need a ritual to mass-drain all those Maasassi, he wouldn't have had to of strapped himself up in the giant pyramid before hand.


You're the textbook definition of retard at this point.

CONTRADICTION A: Exar Kun alchemically twisted the Maasassi vs Naga Sadow alchemically twisting the Maasassi.
CONTRADICTION B: Exar Kun built the giant temples near Revan vs Naga Sadow built the giant temples near Revan.

To lump this in with your next sentence, nothing says that "Naga started it and Kun finished it." You're so obviously changing your argument here.

To cover myself before you managed to find some random quote that says that, SOR makes it clear Naga's temples and Maasassi were fully functional and complete.

And if Kun did improve / finish on him, he's going to be going off of the blueprints Sadow left behind for them anyway, so hardly that omgoshawesome.


Seriously about to kill myself. This isn't "alchemy," at least not the "alchemy" everyone is discussing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cHmQx-gvDM&t=1m40s

Exar Kun's crew: The mini guys labeled "Feral Maasassi."
Revan's crew: The guy that is like 3 times their size.

And lmfao, everyone and their mother knows I'm being trolly when saying Revan's a better alchemist overall than Kun.
I just find it hilarious that Revan potentially has a better feat than anything Kun has despite not being renowned for his alchemy skills at all.
And before you ***** again, no, I'm not considering the Dark Reaper and the Golden Globe as "alchemy" in our discussion over creatures.

NOTE: I'm well aware I spelled Maasassi wrong the whole time. I'm tired and now officially going to bed. I'll respond tomorrow.

Nova once upon a time stated '10,000' but I can't find the source he referred to. More importantly however, that is easily more than ten thousand.

I couldn't care less if you are impressed. He intended to freeze the senators, which makes sense as the Jedi didn't even arrive until after he'd already done it. But hey stomping Vodo is a casual feat of course.

Stop making up this first drain ritual. He drained his sacrifices, his power rose and the ritual started where he channeled that power into his Sith objects. This is hardly unprecedented for him in terms of magnitude, mastery, or potency.

Except Kun literally says that Sadow's magic lives on through the temples and his Massassi. Kun states the powers would destroy him if he didn't master them so he does. Kun then goes on to improve and expand upon everything Sadow achieved on Yavin IV. There are an entire array of sources stating this.

You blatantly claimed that Revan could be a better alchemist than Kun. Stop dodging the point and the evidence blatantly proving you wrong. But if you are desperate enough to need to limit this to creatures then:

Battle Hydras.
Terentateks.
48 Massassi Abominations capable of using the Force.

It's also pretty hilarious that your sole source so far for Revan even creating these Massassi is Theron Shan, who knows nothing about the history of the species to begin with. All of them could just as easily be survivors of Exar Kun's experiments.

Vitiate and Kun (not sure atm, leaning Novel Vitiate)

Starkiller > Revan (in a hard fight)

Durron >> HoT

Team 1 wins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8rCy173y7Y&t=0m10s

https://www.google.com/search?num=30&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=911&q=10%2C000+senate+shootingnova+site%3Awww.comicvine.com&oq=10%2C000+senate+shootingnova+site%3Awww.comicvine.com&gs_l=serp.3...3160.3988.0.4108.7.7.0.0.0.0.121.405.4j1.5.0....0...1.1.64.serp..7.0.0.Jr1q-YT80oY

... Where?



And not the Jedi?

http://delgrassosafety.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/ProveIt.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBPqksG9nbA

http://i21.servimg.com/u/f21/17/73/92/12/awesom10.jpg

"With his first words, Exar Kun uttered a powerful Sith
spell, freezing the entire Senate chamber, save a few Jedi.
However, they were held in check by the Massassi
Warriors that Kun and Mandalore had brought with them."
--Star Wars: Galaxy Guide 14: The Dark Side


I'm 99% sure I've already addressed this in our past Exar Kun debate but you decided not to respond since I laughed at your BS.

Master Vodo Siosk-Baas wasn't remotely "stomped" in the battle, though I do admit he stood "no chance" in defeating Exar Kun - because that wasn't his goal.

"Because I was his Master, I alone of the allied Jedi went to confront him, hoping that I could turn him back. I knew it was a foolish mission, but I had no choice. I had to try."
―Vodo Siosk-Baas (Star Wars: Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force)

Master Vodo-Siosk Baas's goal was to turn Exar Kun back to the light, something explicitly seen in the battle. Another source confirms this, saying Vodo Siosk-Baas did not try to defeat Exar Kun until the very end of the duel, in which Vodo had already grew weaker from defending himself. Finally, just when the Jedi Master vowed to meet his apprentice's charge, he was struck down, never allowing us to see how the battle would have then played out.

"But Master Vodo-Siosk Baas stepped onto the floor: the diminutive Jedi would stand against him. Exar Kun battled his old Master, using a doublebladed lightsaber and all the Sith tricks he had learned. He tried to lure Vodo to join his Sith cause, but the Jedi Master refused. As the fight continued, Vodo grew weaker and Kun gained strength. Finally, just as Vodo vowed that he would defeat Exar Kun, the Dark Lord struck with his lightsaber and killed his teacher."
―Star Wars: Essential Chronology

Additionally, the above quote also shows a different perspective of the battle. Exar Kun unleashed all his powers against the Jedi Master, including Sith magic and sorcery, yet Master Vodo-Siosk Baas seemingly resisted it all. Despite the Dark Lord of the Sith giving his all, and the Jedi simply defending himself, Master Baas' stand against Exar Kun shows that even when having no defense the modifications of his changing lightsaber blade, powerful combatants can hold their own.



http://reactiongifs.me/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/mr_chang_senor_chang_laugh_spits_milk.gif

Then what do you call being strapped to the giant pyramid of destiny? Just something that's casual in an everyday draining?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdtKbq3Omkw



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuKzt7p-MnM

The temples the Maasassi constructed near Revan was under the supervision of Naga Sadow. Said temples were fully completed to where rituals and sacrifices could be completed. Likewise, the mutations of the Maasassi in the area were completed by none other, once again, by Naga Sadow. You claimed the Temple of Sacrifice was probably built by Exar Kun. I laughed in your face and supplied you with codex entries pretty much directly stating otherwise. You're resorting to ancient quotes and dogma that do not have more authority over the details on Revan's temples than the actual source material itself. It's possible, and at this point rather likely, they both did the process, but once again it demonstrates Exar Kun doing nothing special and pretty much copying / using the work of other great Sith Lords for his own cause - which was a failure.


Between the lines of my trolling, laughing, and amusement, indeed.


>"ancient power"
>"evidence"

http://i21.servimg.com/u/f21/17/73/92/12/laugh12.png



First off, kek @ "limit this to creatures." You do know what alchemy is, right?

Yeah, lol. Malaphar the Savage >. That's sort of the whole point of the discussion.


You do realize you engaged in a hypothetical debate under the impression that Revan, did in fact, make the Maasassi? I sort of said that back at square one, and even admitted I don't have it on my respect thread given how vague it is. I do plan on adding it, but even then it won't be without a disclaimer saying it's merely a likely possibility based off the information presented and authorial intent.

Preparing my reply at this moment.

Not sure that warrants a post but OK, cool?

He wants you to know so that you don't copy Quan's infamous, "concession accepted."

BTW ignore "Despite the Dark Lord of the Sith giving his all, and the Jedi simply defending himself, Master Baas' stand against Exar Kun shows that even when having no defense the modifications of his changing lightsaber blade, powerful combatants can hold their own." That's concerning a totally different topic (I copied and pasted the post over).

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
He wants you to know so that you don't copy Quan's infamous, "concession accepted."
kek @ me not posting it even if she/he/it does respond.

kek true

YOLO:


Concession
Accepted. http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/922207309.gif

That's some cold a$$ shit, boi. And stop editing ya damn posts.

I didn't make any edits.

Someone call the DEA FDA CIA and 911

How many of the twenty edits did you catch above, kek.

Twenty? I caught Neph nudes and you putting Dooku>Revan.

KEK

Catch my edits?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju4-bw3a48E

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju4-bw3a48E

I remember that movie. Was pretty good

I didn't know DarthSith500 was still making videos of himself.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I didn't know DarthSith500 was still making videos of himself. LOL

You're a mindless sheep Lana

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
You're a mindless sheep Lana
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You shut your whore mouth.

> Implying Lana isn't a whore.

Touche.

One more source to go.

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8fcinfzZT1r76lino1_400.gif

Downloading sourcebooks in a Starbucks takes awhile.

Originally posted by Nephthys
This is gonna be another really dumb argument, isn't it? You get so desperate when your RevanKun is on the line.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Ant'sAP's just being elaborate because he knows he's losing.

And I'm going to slap it all down with my handy-dandy codex entries, kek.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Downloading sourcebooks in a Starbucks takes awhile. get me a medium white chocolate mocha

It might be diseased.

When did I say that? Was that in a Revan vs. Dooku thread? I feel like it was.

The classic and ancient Revan vs Darth Zannah debate.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
get me a medium white chocolate mocha

F*ck you and your treacherous white chocolate ways. kek

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
And I'm going to slap it all down with my handy-dandy codex entries, kek.

I feel like this is a Blue's Clues reference.

Originally posted by AncientPower
F*ck you and your treacherous white chocolate ways. kek Wowwwwww I hope Ant beheads you

Originally posted by AncientPower
kek
Originally posted by AncientPower
kek
Originally posted by AncientPower
kek
Originally posted by AncientPower
kek
Originally posted by AncientPower
kek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UawSjQxqbfE&t=0m08s

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Wowwwwww I hope Ant beheads you

Like this?

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/3975749/mary-stewart-beheading-o.gif

More or less

Originally posted by |King Joker|
More or less

I have it on good authority that it will happen.

Bae never disappoints

Not as long as I've known him.

So to begin with, thanks to my trusted TFN friends who eons ago made the correct estimation that the Senate Chamber had an elected representative for every system in the Galactic Republic. Until the Ruusan Reformations changed the system to being a sectorial senate. This would mean that by that time Millions of senators would have been elected. Millions of senators would have been present for Ulic Qel-Droma's trial. Exar Kun hypnotized millions.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Bane always disappoints

I walk into a thread like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuTvlewO-3A.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
mmm

Originally posted by AncientPower
So to begin with, thanks to my trusted TFN friends who eons ago made the correct estimation that the Senate Chamber had an elected representative for every system in the Galactic Republic. Until the Ruusan Reformations changed the system to being a sectorial senate. This would mean that by that time Millions of senators would have been elected. Millions of senators would have been present for Ulic Qel-Droma's trial. Exar Kun hypnotized millions.

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/003202761/931741692_i_demand_a_recount_thumb_xlarge.jpeg

Originally posted by AncientPower
So to begin with, thanks to my trusted TFN friends who eons ago made the correct estimation that the Senate Chamber had an elected representative for every system in the Galactic Republic. Until the Ruusan Reformations changed the system to being a sectorial senate. This would mean that by that time Millions of senators would have been elected. Millions of senators would have been present for Ulic Qel-Droma's trial. Exar Kun hypnotized millions.

I see something lacking...

http://creativesocialblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Source-Logo-2.gif

Because no one gives two shits about "your trusted TFN friends" estimations, KEK

And that they would all be present when they are managing, like, wars on their territory.

Feel free to do some light reading:

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/astro.html

I am the Source Wall. Break through it and learn to nature of God.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Feel free to do some light reading:

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/astro.html
Nope. Not wasting my team reading fodder fanfiction from people who I care less about than the shit I took a week ago.

You go through it, find the source for it, and then explain why they would all be present during a time when they are needed back home.

'Fodder fanfiction' from people infinitely more intellectual than you could hope to aspire to little boy. Some of them Harvard and Brown grads to be specific.



The Senate chamber was clearly packed in the picture provided to you earlier. At least 12,000 senators are present at any one time based on a sectorial system. But prior to the Ruusan Reformations there would been system based membership.

Don't care. Give me a source and a quote or get lost. Hiding behind fodder fanfiction won't get you anywhere besides getting your name, once again, labeled on the front of "everyone look at him and laugh" page.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Not wasting my team reading fodder fanfiction from people who I care less about than the shit I took a week ago.

Why would elected senators whose job is to represent their world/system/sector in times of emergency in the senate be needed back home? Don't waste my 'team' with moronic logic like that.

LAWL

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Don't care. Give me a source and a quote or get lost. Hiding behind fodder fanfiction won't get you anywhere besides getting your name, once again, labeled on the front of "everyone look at him and laugh" page.

That is the source you moron, everything in that blog is sourced in official works/website statements. I know your attention span is minute but come on.

Then it should be super easy for you to direct me to the source then for that, wouldn't it?


No clue, don't care. You made the claims there were millions (kek), so give me a source and a quote and I'll concede (probably not but it's a start for Kun > Malak at least), and we'll go from there.

I doubt all Republic worlds guarentee a member of the Senate, especially for those not that heavily inhabited (most worlds have hardly millions inhabiting it, so you expect me to believe that they could all fit in a building?). Also, obviously not everyone is going to be there given they were literally just attacked by Droma's forces. Most of them probably fled or tried to seek refugee. I also bet the traffic to the planet was completely halted. Not to mention the fact that the Republic during this era isn't as big as it was during the Empire.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
LAWL
KEK

Also, where the hell is this grand post of yours? There was a lot more to the debate than just Kun freezing people.

Going to bed. I'll respond tomorrow.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No clue

First smart thing you've said all debate.


Originally posted by DarthAnt66 Then it should be super easy for you to direct me to the source then for that, wouldn't it?

If you bothered to read instead of Carthaging your way through this debate I wouldn't need to.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66 don't care.

That's hardly my problem now is it?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66 You made the claims there were millions (kek), so give me a source and a quote and I'll concede (probably not but it's a start for Kun > Malak at least), and we'll go from there.

If you actually think Malak is Kun tier you need to be c*ck slapped by Advent.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66 I doubt all Republic worlds guarentee a member of the Senate, especially for those not that heavily inhabited (most worlds have hardly millions inhabiting it, so you expect me to believe that they could all fit in a building?). Also, obviously not everyone is going to be there given they were literally just attacked by Droma's forces. Most of them probably fled or tried to seek refugee. I also bet the traffic to the planet was completely halted. Not to mention the fact that the Republic during this era isn't as big as it was during the Empire.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

The Empire was indeed larger, but according to the official Star Wars website, the senate at the time of the movies was a sector system. Infact the official number for this time is 1,024 according to the Episode I: Visual Dictionary.

But before this not only was the Old Senate Chamber much larger as I have shown you in previous images. But the entire sectorial system turned millions of sectors, each with a representative into the above 1,024 due to the Ruusan Reformations(The Essential Atlas, Darth Bane: Rule of Two). It was a move to end rabid corruption.

The Senate Assembly was clearly packed, especially during Ulic Qel-Droma's trial.

There are your sources.

What ever happened to Advent?

If you ever find out, do tell.

Originally posted by AncientPower

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

The Empire was indeed larger, but according to the official Star Wars website, the senate at the time of the movies was a sector system. Infact the official number for this time is 1,024 according to the Episode I: Visual Dictionary.

But before this not only was the Old Senate Chamber much larger as I have shown you in previous images. But the entire sectorial system turned millions of sectors, each with a representative into the above 1,024 due to the Ruusan Reformations(The Essential Atlas, Darth Bane: Rule of Two). It was a move to end rabid corruption.

The Senate Assembly was clearly packed, especially during Ulic Qel-Droma's trial.

There are your sources.

Since I enjoy discussing Republic politics and stuff, I thought I'd pitch in here for Ant.

Firstly, I find it funny you use the Essential Atlas as a source when it provides a pretty key piece of information that shatters your argument. We'll go over a very brief history of the political landscape so we can create a more accurate picture.

--The Essential Atlas

--The Essential Atlas

We'll pause here for a moment. As we can clearly see, the Republic Senate can't function with millions of members. Already we have an idea that Exar Kun didn't mind control millions. For the next piece of evidence:

--The Essential Atlas

I'll make note here that there apparently isn't a change from this format until the Ruusan Reformations, or perhaps sooner given the Republic as of TOR hints to a similar political structure to the movie Senate.

Anyway. What this makes clear is that many Senators (likely the majority) don't even have seats in the Senate by the time of Ulic's trial, and instead suggests that only some Senators are given seats. The final piece of evidence, really, is the size of TOTJ's version of the Convocation Chamber.

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/comics/totj/senate2.jpg

While, yes, the chamber is packed, that doesn't mean that 'millions' were seated there. In order for millions to be crammed into a single building, that building would need to be 40-100s of miles in length and a similar size in width. How did I come to this conclusion? The state of Rhode Island (which is estimated 48 miles in length) has a population of slightly over 1 million.

What makes the idea of millions cramming into that chamber even less plausible is that the entire chamber isn't even filled. The floor (the giant empty space between bleachers) isn't even filled, which further reinforces the idea that millions have not occupied the chamber.

The point here is that the Convocation chamber isn't large enough to hold millions. And if it really were 40-100 miles in length/width, then it would take hours (maybe even days depending on Kun's strut speed) for Kun to leisurely stroll from the entrance to the Chancellor's podium. Heck, it would take that long just for Senators to get to their seats.

It's simply illogical for there to be millions of Senators at Kun's trial. The political landscape of the Republic doesn't allow it. The size of the convocation chamber doesn't allow it. And it's simply illogical given that many planets in the galaxy barely even have millions populating them, some only have thousands.

The lack of logic in your argument really lacks of logic. I don't even get why you're attempting to argue that Kun dominated millions. Just take your thousands and move on. Sheesh.

http://data.whicdn.com/images/25351350/large.gif

Originally posted by Aurbere
The lack of logic in your argument really lacks of logic.http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/841309534.gif

@ILS, Nostalgia Critic reference, btw

Originally posted by AncientPower
If you actually think Malak is Kun tier you need to be c*ck slapped by Advent.