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The Eternal Family: Vaylin, Thexan, Arcann, Senya, and Valkorion.

The Skywalker Family: RotJ Vader (cannon/legends), FotJ Luke, Peak Leia, FotJ Ben Skywalker, and FotJ Jaina.

All members of the Eternal Family are in their prime carnations.

Battle takes place on Odessen.

Round 2: If the Skywalkers can't win, change Vader to Zonakin. If the Eternals can't win, remove Jaina or Ben (both if too one-sided) from the Skywalkers.

Luke>Valk
Vader≥Arcann
Jaina>Senya

I can't see Vaylin and Thexan losing to Leia and Ben though.

I think I'd have to side the Eternal Family because Leia and Ben are weak links relatively speaking.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Luke>Valk
Vader≥Arcann
Jaina>Senya

I can't see Vaylin and Thexan losing to Leia and Ben though.

I think I'd have to side the Eternal Family because Leia and Ben are weak links relatively speaking.

Interesting. What if Vader was replaced by Zonakin and we removed Leia and Ben?

Removing Leia and Ben does little more than make the Skywalkers outnumbered 5 to 3.

Zonakin is a concept I have always opposed. Never agreed with this "Zone" BS, unless it's Anakin in his state of Oneness on Mortis, in which case the Eternal Family gets absolutely shit on. Far more likely you're referring to Anakin when he gets pissed like he did against Dooku. I have always believed Vader>Anakin, but even assuming this is Anakin in the state of mind that he beat Dooku in, he still has a less impressive force mastery in comparison with Vader and he's not nearly as intelligent. I view him as coping with Arcann's force powers worse than Vader does tbh.

So really this proposed change just makes it easier for team 1.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Removing Leia and Ben does little more than make the Skywalkers outnumbered 5 to 3.

Zonakin is a concept I have always opposed. Never agreed with this "Zone" BS, unless it's Anakin in his state of Oneness on Mortis, in which case the Eternal Family gets absolutely shit on. Far more likely you're referring to Anakin when he gets pissed like he did against Dooku. I have always believed Vader>Anakin, but even assuming this is Anakin in the state of mind that he beat Dooku in, he still has a less impressive force mastery in comparison with Vader and he's not nearly as intelligent. I view him as coping with Arcann's force powers worse than Vader does tbh.

So really this proposed change just makes it easier for team 1.

I was actually referring to the Mortis Anakin, though after reviewing his Mortis feats I forgot how stupid it is to put him in a thread, and have changed my decision to adding Cade to team 2.

The Eternal family

Thexan straps on a suicide bomb

If you need to buff the Skywalkers, you could swap in Cade or Jacen.

They don't need a bump; it's fairly balanced as it stands. I'd make a small edit to your pairings, though, DMB:

Valkorion V.S Luke
Arcann V.S Vader
Vaylin V.S Jaina
Senya V.S Leia and Ben

EDIT: Missed Thexan; yeah, it'd probably be fair to add in a Cade-figure into the mix; Ben isn't up to the task of taking on Thexan by himself.

Adding Jacen would be tantamount to making this a stomp, though.

Well, Figure Leia's mostly going to hang back and use Battle Meditation and Force Harmony and such.

Senya holds off Jaina, Vaylin holds off Vader with TK and Valky holds off Luke while Arcann slaughters the weaklings in team Skywalker. GG

Vaylin isn't holding off Vader, and Senya isn't holding of Jaina.

Starkiller TK > Vaylin TK, yet pre-prime Vader could stalemate him while throwing the fight.

Even if I do concede Vaylin is = with Vader in the Force (which I don't) he is easily the superior duelist and martial combatant.

Well, the Ultimate Skywalker Family team is Luke, Vader, Caedus, Cade, Jaina. (Much as I want to throw Mara in, she's Skywalker by marriage, not by blood)

I never said Vaylin = Vader lol.
I think she can hold off Vader long enough for Arcann to do kill the weaklings though.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Well, the Ultimate Skywalker Family team is Luke, Vader, Caedus, Cade, Jaina. (Much as I want to throw Mara in, she's Skywalker by marriage, not by blood) In that case, I think Anankin should be used instead of Vader. It would also make it a more interesting fight.

Who cares if Mara is a Skywalker by marriage, exactly? I was unaware that Senya was secretly Valkorion's sister.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Senya was secretly Valkorion's sister.

What?

He's pointing out that Mara not being a Skywalker by blood shouldn't be used to discredit her, since Senya isn't related to Vitiate by blood either.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Who cares if Mara is a Skywalker by marriage, exactly? I was unaware that Senya was secretly Valkorion's sister.

I knew they are rednecks when I saw them.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Vaylin isn't holding off Vader, and Senya isn't holding of Jaina.


Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Starkiller TK > Vaylin TK, yet pre-prime Vader could stalemate him while throwing the fight.
No.

Vaylin have superior telekinetic showings then both.

Inb4 Killer's outlier feat as evidence for his regular TK strength again..

What outlier feat would that be?

Star Destroyer.

Why is it when Starkiller does something once, it's an outlier, but when someone is in TOR does something once it's super valid?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Why is it when Starkiller does something once, it's an outlier, but when someone is in TOR does something once it's super valid?

https://media.giphy.com/media/1Z02vuppxP1Pa/giphy.gif

It's because we have contradictory levels of power running rampant in TFU. Also it's entire premise is that it's an over the top portrayal.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Star Destroyer.

I see. As I recall, every other one of Vaylin's TK feats involved Force pushing people and making an impromptu shield out of a moderately sized piece of bridge.

I guess we can safely disregard her building feat on the same grounds?

Originally posted by Nephthys
It's because we have contradictory levels of power running rampant in TFU. Also it's entire premise is that it's an over the top portrayal.

Lol, because in SWTOR it doesn't? How about Senya beating Vaylin, Heskal stomping Senya, The Outlander beating Heskal, The Outlander + Lana not being a match for Vaylin.

And only the game was over the top for TFU, the novels aren't. That's why they were higher level of canon. Same level as SWTOR, so that's a poor excuse.

Plus Hayden Blackman said 'Killer was meant to be one of the most powerful Force users of all time. Dude was conceived as a powerhouse from start to finish.

So... Yeah.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Star Destroyer. Why would anyone bother with that when Starkiller is atomising frigates.

It's not exactly his best feat.Originally posted by Nephthys
It's because we have contradictory levels of power running rampant in TFU. Also it's entire premise is that it's an over the top portrayal.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Why would anyone bother with that when Starkiller is atomising frigates.

That's an outlier, you can't use that.


http://res.cloudinary.com/urbandictionary/image/upload/a_exif,c_fit,h_200,w_200/v1395991705/gjn81wvxqsq6yzcwubok.png

The Starkiller respect in this thread, is most pleasing. excellent

Guys, do you think we have the authority to use the Outlier dodge or is that a SWTOR copyright? mmm

Come to think of it, the best we see from Bane after destroying the Lehon temple is throwing some furniture. Outlier feat?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Come to think of it, the best we see from Bane after destroying the Lehon temple is throwing some furniture. Outlier feat?

Heyoooooooo

And thus the #Outlier movement was born.

I honestly think AP might very well be a PT fan's greatest ally in the SWTOR group.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Lol, because in SWTOR it doesn't?

Yes.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
The Starkiller respect in this thread, is most pleasing. excellent

Glad you approve

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
And only the game was over the top for TFU, the novels aren't. That's why they were higher level of canon. Same level as SWTOR, so that's a poor excuse.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Have you actually read the Force Unleashed novels? They are far more over the top than the games, it's not even close.

Originally posted by Nephthys
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Have you actually read the Force Unleashed novels? They are far more over the top than the games, it's not even close.

https://media.giphy.com/media/Fml0fgAxVx1eM/giphy.gif

No, seriously. In the novel Starkiller force pushes thousands of droids, powers a frigate with lightning after blowing a hole in it's hull, muses about destroying the junk Jedi Temple in one push, destroyed the Sky Cradle with the Force, one-shot an AT-AT with lightning + killed it's crew......

Yet he still struggles with a single Shadow Guard.

He didn't really struggel, the SG just put up a fight. And by Kashyyyk he is blitzing them.

And then there's the fact that in the game he actually pulls down the SD, stomps Vader, and beats Sidious. While in the novel he only redirected the SD, beat Vader with Dun Möch, and Sidious threw the fight before it even began.

I totes remember when Starkiller beat Sidious. Can't remember if that was before or after he blew up.

Before bro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xnDpvXqltc&t=7m42s

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
He didn't really struggel, the SG just put up a fight. And by Kashyyyk he is blitzing them.

And then there's the fact that in the game he actually pulls down the SD, stomps Vader, and beats Sidious. While in the novel he only redirected the SD, beat Vader with Dun Möch, and Sidious threw the fight before it even began.

In the game the SD is still in freefall and Marek only redirected it. In fact, as I recall the novel goes a step further again by having Marek buckling the hull. He beat Vader but he didn't beat Sidious in anything, doi.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Before bro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xnDpvXqltc&t=7m42s
Your definition of beat I'd pretty dumb, tbh.

>Starkiller has TK feat
>Starkiller loses to Vader
>TK feat outlier

>Vaylin has TK feat
>Vaylin loses to Senya
>Senya outlier

>lol

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yet he still struggles with a single Shadow Guard. >Kas'im defends against Bane.
>Feat for Kas'im

>Shadow Guard defends against Starkiller
>Trololol everything else outlier.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I see. As I recall, every other one of Vaylin's TK feats involved Force pushing people and making an impromptu shield out of a moderately sized piece of bridge.

I guess we can safely disregard her building feat on the same grounds?
Other then the building, she destroyed a large blast door, a large bridge and a gigantic power core.

She didn't destroy the generator. She ripped the covering. Off only one side. She also didn't destroy any bridges it buildings.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
She didn't destroy the generator. She ripped the covering. Off only one side.
You call that covering?

It is a multi-story structure.

https://i.imgur.com/BytFLox.gifv

After destroying that structure, she destroyed the power core itself:

https://i.imgur.com/4U3sL8u.gifv

The sheer blast killed thousands in the vicinity.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
She also didn't destroy any bridges it buildings.


https://i.imgur.com/3by8OVs.gifv

I guess this happened by itself then?

Vaylin destroyed this bridge to prevent the Outlander and Lana Beniko from getting away.

Legend, she didn't destroy the power core. She destroyed the structure supporting it, causing it to go supercritical.Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
https://i.imgur.com/3by8OVs.gifv

I guess this happened by itself then?

Vaylin destroyed this bridge to prevent the Outlander and Lana Beniko from getting away. The city was falling apart. So it could have. mmm

Originally posted by Beniboybling
The city was falling apart. So it could have. mmm

And that bridge was barely more than a catwalk, not to mention that it fell apart at the joints. A pre-prime Mace did similar.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Legend, she didn't destroy the power core. She destroyed the structure supporting it, causing it to go supercritical.
The power core does not goes bust immediately after the destruction of the structure beneath it. It continues to work and goes bust after sometime. I get the impression that Vaylin destroyed it.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
The city was falling apart. So it could have. mmm
Nothing else falls apart during this scene.

Vaylin destroyed this bridge; she was present on the scene behind the protagonists; they notice her right after the destruction of the bridge.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
And that bridge was barely more than a catwalk, not to mention that it fell apart at the joints. A pre-prime Mace did similar.
Right...

It is like 50 feet long. More importantly, it is made-up of material that can tank firepower of a Starship. This is made apparent from the event when Vaylin rips another chunk out of it and uses it to shield herself from the firepower of a Starship.

At-least, watch the footage on Youtube before posting nonsense.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The power core does not goes bust immediately after the destruction of the structure beneath it. It continues to work. I get the impression that Vaylin destroyed it.Probably because the generator wasn't completely destroyed, but Vaylin severely damaged it so it was bound to fail.

Really though, there is no reason for Vaylin to do this.I'll reserve judgement for when I've played it myself.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Probably because the generator wasn't completely destroyed, but Vaylin severely damaged it so it was bound to fail.
This is how things happen:

1. Protagonists are fleeing from Vaylin; they move from one Skyscraper to another. A massive bridge connects these two Skyscrapers.
2. A massive power plant is also located in the space between the two skyscrapers.
3. Vaylin notices the power plant and begins to destroy it; hurling its massive chunks towards the other Skyscraper where the protagonists went.
4. The targeted Skyscraper begins to shake and the protagonists attempt to flee it as apparent from a cut-scene.
5. Some game-play occurs.
6. The power core goes critical and explodes.

I get the impression that Vaylin continues to destroy the power core during the game-play session.

Also, look at the size of the structure in question:

http://i65.tinypic.com/219yz61.png

Notice the red arrow below? It is pointing towards the structure that Vaylin tears apart first. Those trees on the bridge are like 7 - 10 floors tall. Here is a detailed analysis: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t619116.html

Vaylin is certainly super-strong.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Really though, there is no reason for Vaylin to do this.I'll reserve judgement for when I've played it myself.
Sure.

But you can watch the scene on Youtube.

I've played through it several times. You're mostly talking out of your ass.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I've played through it several times. You're mostly talking out of your ass.
People can watch the entire chapter on Youtube (gameplay included). Nobody needs your input to understand the developments.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I've played through it several times. You're mostly talking out of your ass. I will assume this the case until I've played it through myself. http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/841309534.gif

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
People can watch the entire chapter on Youtube (gameplay included). Nobody needs your input to understand the developments.

Nice edit.

Also, doesn't that apply to you as well? Nobody needing your input to understand.

Just sayin'

Toplel.

Lol, just played through the scene. Freshest's assessment is accurate.

Originally posted by Nephthys


Yet he still struggles with a single Shadow Guard.

This is bad....why? You're making it sound like it's a bad thing?

Some particular reason a nameless guy can't put up a fight against a named character?

Is there some sort of rule?

It's not like that hasn't happened in the past with other sources.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lol, just played through the scene. Freshest's assessment is accurate.
Doesn't changes the fact that the structure in question was huge. And its destruction represents one of the best telekinetic showings in the lore so far.

As for the bridge, still think that it fell apart on its own?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I see. As I recall, every other one of Vaylin's TK feats involved Force pushing people and making an impromptu shield out of a moderately sized piece of bridge.

I guess we can safely disregard her building feat on the same grounds?

Or you might want to read the actual novel, in which it's made absolutely crystal clear this isn't something he can just pull out of his ass. It is effectively a oneness(outlier) feat.

No such thing is even implied about Vaylin, as a matter of fact we know with absolute certainty that Vaylin in reality is a lot stronger than we have seen so far. In coming chapters she will become far more attuned to her real potential.

Speaking of...that scene with Valyin and the piece of metal...just no, why those cannons didn't just shred it to nothing and her is beyond stupid.....yeah that makes perfect sense.

You'll say that the fire went through the piece of metal yeah...yet for some reason it was still intact and not just obliterated...those must have been some weak ass cannons then.

Also right....real potential, knowing this family and BW it's all gonna be..

"No they were weakened!"

"Oh no, their powers are suppressed!"

"Oh no, they were still using only a fraction of their power."

While doing ridiculous feats of power.

It's a wonder how BW is ever gonna write themselves out of this one, because I don't see how anyone is gonna stop any of these characters, if they are doing this.

Heh...'characters' yeah right. Anyway rant over..apologies.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Speaking of...that scene with Valyin and the piece of metal...just no, why those cannons didn't just shred it to nothing and her is beyond stupid.....yeah that makes perfect sense.

You'll say that the fire went through the piece of metal yeah...yet for some reason it was still intact and not just obliterated...those must have been some weak ass cannons then.
Or Zakuul metal structures are extremely durable?

If the canons were weak, Vaylin would not have felt the need to shield herself with a chunk of metal.

Wolf, Vaylin's power was controlled by Valkorion and only once Vitiate died and hibernated in Yavin IV's temples were her powers unveiled. Even five years later she was playing catch up in terms of grasping her enormous powers. Infact Valkorion even favors her because she is strong, just like he is.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Doesn't changes the fact that the structure in question was huge. And its destruction represents one of the best telekinetic showings in the lore so far.

As for the bridge, still think that it fell apart on its own? I concede on the bridge, but the reactor clearly went supercritical without any additional assistance from Vaylin.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Or you might want to read the actual novel, in which it's made absolutely crystal clear this isn't something he can just pull out of his ass. It is effectively a oneness(outlier) feat.

No such thing is even implied about Vaylin, as a matter of fact we know with absolute certainty that Vaylin in reality is a lot stronger than we have seen so far. In coming chapters she will become far more attuned to her real potential. No mention of Oneness is ever made, only massive exertion.

Top-tier =/= Outlier.

This being before his prime, who was nonetheless inferior to his clone who was TKing 300 meter frigates while defending against the heat of reentry with seemingly moderate effort.

Rahm Kota motivated Galen Marek to try something that even he was hesitant to do with his "size matters not" lectures. I wonder how many others can pull-off the same, should they try. It is rare for a Force-user to influence a large Starship with Force powers.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
No mention of Oneness is ever made, only massive exertion.

Top-tier =/= Outlier.

This being before his prime, who was nonetheless inferior to his clone who was TKing 300 meter frigates while defending against the heat of reentry with seemingly moderate effort.

I said effectively, the novel is explicit in it's depiction of Marek's feat, which is clearly beyond his normal limitations.

Use the frigate feat or (better) the fusion weapon feat if you like, I'm more than happy to entertain such feats. The notion of them being effective against other top tiers is however very debateable.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Wolf, Vaylin's power was controlled by Valkorion and only once Vitiate died and hibernated in Yavin IV's temples were her powers unveiled. Even five years later she was playing catch up in terms of grasping her enormous powers. Infact Valkorion even favors her because she is strong, just like he is.

Yet even after that time, she's still just finding her potential.

Also...being able to use TK while STILL in the womb?...Come on seriously? Not even Anakin was doing that and he was conceived by the Force itself...

Also Legend, even still the first blasts from the cannon were enough to rip right through the metal piece, so I don't see how it's durable enough to withstand sustained fire...even in the exact same spot, you'd think at least there would be a chunk of it blown apart.


I'd care more if these were actual characters...Valyin just comes across as a little *****, Arcann is just an egotistical maniac. Though out of the 2 I prefer Arcann, but that's not saying much.

Wolf, it's TOR; do you actually expect decent writting to come from it?

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Wolf, it's TOR; do you actually expect decent writting to come from it?

Well Vanilla TOR was pretty ok, I mean Knights is a nice story...but the antagonists just...I'm not feeling.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
This is bad....why? You're making it sound like it's a bad thing?

Some particular reason a nameless guy can't put up a fight against a named character?

Is there some sort of rule?

It's not like that hasn't happened in the past with other sources.

Yes, it's bad. Faceless mooks putting up good fights with a guy whose supposedly in the top 10 most powerful dudes ever (going by feats) is a bad thing.

Some random nobody who is merely a disposable guard for Sidious shouldn't be challenging "I obliterate frigates" Starkiller.

I love your talking shit about TOR when you like NJO, DC.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes, it's bad. Faceless mooks putting up good fights with a guy whose supposedly in the top 10 most powerful dudes ever (going by feats) is a bad thing.

Some random nobody who is merely a disposable guard for Sidious shouldn't be challenging "I obliterate frigates" Starkiller.

Well the Guard wasn't fighting the Clone, he was fighting Galen who was good but he wasn't at his prime yet.

Plus it's not like the Guard challenged him Force wise much, he challenged him martial wise which the IGs/SGs are pretty good martial combatants given the various sources about them.

The Yuuzhan Vong War was off the chain, though.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Well Vanilla TOR was pretty ok, I mean Knights is a nice story...but the antagonists just...I'm not feeling.

What major antagonist in SWTOR was good? Certainly not Vitiate. And Malgus was only in the game for a very small amount.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I love your talking shit about TOR when you like NJO, DC.

Well the NJO series is actually... good. Admittedly everything after it is a steaming pile of **** .

Originally posted by ares834
What major antagonist in SWTOR was good? Certainly not Vitiate. And Malgus was only in the game for a very small amount.

Tarro Blood. Jadus. Morrhage was pretty good.

Jadus was cool. No clue who the other fools are.

Tarro Blood is the villain in the first Act of the Bounty Hunter story. He's the only guy in the game who actually made me mad, because he just never stops ****ing you over on literally every planet.

Morrhage is Vivicar. I liked the act long mystery of his identity and I thought he was a pretty effectively threatening villain.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Also Legend, even still the first blasts from the cannon were enough to rip right through the metal piece, so I don't see how it's durable enough to withstand sustained fire...even in the exact same spot, you'd think at least there would be a chunk of it blown apart.
It may have suffered damage but Vaylin sent it hurling like a missile towards the Starship before it would utterly disintegrate. It is also likely that Vaylin had her defenses up and tanked the bolts that slip through the metal barrier.

Nonetheless, point is that Zakuul structures are extremely durable.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
I'd care more if these were actual characters...Valyin just comes across as a little *****, Arcann is just an egotistical maniac. Though out of the 2 I prefer Arcann, but that's not saying much.
Vaylin is a spoiled princess and not mature. I like her story arc.

Arcann is not reckless and does not kills individuals for sport. His rationale for being rebellious is that Valkorion gave undue favor to the Outlander and not him. Arcann does have his share of extremes though.

The whole point of KoTFE is that Valkorion's children are dangerous and unpredictable and a threat to the entire galaxy at large.

If we witness (strictly) mature characters around us, it will get boring.

Bump.

Taking into account the new stuff, who wins?

Hmm.

Skywalkers, most likely. Not entirely sure, though.

Luke solos.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
Bump.

Taking into account the new stuff, who wins?

Originally posted by MythLord
Luke solos.

Bloodlusted Luke solo's.

Originally posted by MythLord


But what if Valkorion's spirit fights inside Luke's mind against the real Luke, Myth?

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
But what if Valkorion's spirit fights inside Luke's mind against the real Luke, Myth?
Luke's mind, Luke's rules.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
But what if Valkorion's spirit fights inside Luke's mind against the real Luke, Myth?

Luke makes da rulez. Or he goes beyond the Shadows and wipes out his essence.

SWTOR poor try at Inception is disgusting, lmao.

The short variant:
Originally posted by TenebrousWay
SWTOR is disgusting, lmao.

It's hard to disagree.

I begin to like u.