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Round 1: Sabers only

Round 2: All out fight

Battle takes place on neutral ground

Arcann. I'd honestly put the TOR protags near Malgus by KotFE.

Interesting, considering the circumstances.

What circumstances?

The circumstances of Malgus also getting Tiplee'd.

Am I the only guy who payed attention while playing or something?

This should be good. Or do you not actually have a point and are only stalling?

KotFE is hardly the protagonist's prime. The Outlander spent 5 years in an imperfect carbonite.

Valid point

How long would he be hampered by the effects though?

Valkorion is also stated to be healing you the entire time. Fact. It's been quite a while since KotFe began, Oggurobb even says months in dialogue. Fact.

There's been plenty of time to get over being frozen and plenty of extraordinary means to get over it, including having a Force Entity's power surge throughout the Outlander's body. Fact is, the Outlander was just inferior, and the sooner we accept that the better.

He only heals you in your dreams and might be actually doing enough to keep you alive but theres no indication he's healing you in the game. The Outlander doesn't show any sign of being healed while they're staggering around Zakuul.

Originally posted by carthage
How long would he be hampered by the effects though?

Dunno. The freezing was clearly way shittier than Han's and was longer and it probably didn't help that they have to fight and do stuff near constantly over the few days the expansion takes place over.

The guy I mentioned says you look like crap in chapter 9 tho, which is the last one so I guess pretty long.

Right after the Outlander gets stabbed in the stomach they say Valkorion is healing them and kept them alive. Unfortunately, your opinion means absolutely nothing here compared to theirs.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Right after the Outlander gets stabbed in the stomach they say Valkorion is healing them and kept them alive. Unfortunately, your opinion means absolutely nothing here compared to theirs.

So? At best the Outlander is equal to SoD protagonist. Unless you have some fancy theory them getting better while being frozen for 5 years.

I assume you mean SoR. And considering that literally everyone improved after SoR up until KotFE, I'm going to disagree with you. It's idiotic to think they stayed static in the time up until KotFE begins as well as during it. Because as I pointed out, a lot of time as gone by already.

Gotta say its funny though seeing some say that Outlander isn't operating at peak efficiency (he likely isn't) after being out of the game a few years when those same people say Revan was at his best shortly after coming out of a roughly three hundred year long coma.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I assume you mean SoR. And considering that literally everyone improved after SoR up until KotFE, I'm going to disagree with you. It's idiotic to think they stayed static in the time up until KotFE begins as well as during it. Because as I pointed out, a lot of time as gone by already.

Who is this "literally everyone"? Because there is no clear indication that anyone improved, beside that usual "time has passed" argument. Which isn't exactly infallible evidence.

Until you have something concrete it's far-fetched to assume someone improved while spending 5 years in imperfect carbonite...

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
]Who is this "literally everyone"? Because there is no clear indication that anyone improved, beside that usual "time has passed" argument. Which isn't exactly infallible evidence.

Quotes from NPCs and the player character about their own abilities. Again, their opinions of themselves are superior to any assumptions you or Neph can make. Even as soon as RoE, Lana herself was supposed to have begun shielding herself against Vitiate.

What concrete proof is their of improvement since the class story began besides opinions of those in game? What kind of retardation does it require to ignore statements in game as well as ignoring the obvious improvement shown in the feats performed. They don't need to improve in the 5 years of carbonite freezing when improvement is shown and stated everywhere else.

Arcann takes this.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Right after the Outlander gets stabbed in the stomach they say Valkorion is healing them and kept them alive. Unfortunately, your opinion means absolutely nothing here compared to theirs.

You're forgetting that Valkorion can't use his power unless the Outlander allows him to. Notice how both times he heals you, the Outlander is unconscious and can't restrict his actions?

Originally posted by ares834
Gotta say its funny though seeing some say that Outlander isn't operating at peak efficiency (he likely isn't) after being out of the game a few years when those same people say Revan was at his best shortly after coming out of a roughly three hundred year long coma.
BTW, I recall Vitiate stating the Outlander he has grown more powerful since XYZ or something. Might have been in regards to Act 2 though.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You're forgetting that Valkorion can't use his power unless the Outlander allows him to. Notice how both times he heals you, the Outlander is unconscious and can't restrict his actions?
Are you retarded? If that were true the Outlander would have died as soon as they were turned into a kebab. The entire point of giving you a choice is to get you around to his way of thinking. Also pretty sure the dream where he's actively heals you counts enough for consciousness. The grasping from you and zoltan is a sight to behold.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Are you retarded? If that were true the Outlander would have died as soon as they were turned into a kebab. The entire point of giving you a choice is to get you around to his way of thinking. Also pretty sure the dream where he's actively heals you counts enough for consciousness. The grasping from you and zoltan is a sight to behold.

Says the guy with 0 evidence....

Valkorion in the "dream" says he did all he could to save the Outlander's life, but even after that Lana had to use a cure that "might" save you. But even after that you are still in a bad shape to the point that when you suggest to beat Vaylin with the help of Lana she says she is amazed you can even stand.

But all that aside improving while you are ******* unconscious would be a bigger feat than for Luke to go from 0 to Vader level in 4 years

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Says the guy with 0 evidence....

Valkorion in the "dream" says he did all he could to save the Outlander's life, but even after that Lana had to use a cure that "might" save you. But even after that you are still in a bad shape to the point that when you suggest to beat Vaylin with the help of Lana she says she is amazed you can even stand.

What does this have to do with anything? It's been months since the timeskip.

Again, you're completely ignoring the improvement stated to happen between SoR and Chapter 1, and the improvement we see up until Chapter 9. It's not like the Outlander just woke up one day and fought Arcann minutes later.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Again, you're completely ignoring the improvement stated to happen between SoR and Chapter 1, and the improvement we see up until Chapter 9. It's not like the Outlander just woke up one day and fought Arcann minutes later.

Considering they haven't done shit between SoR and Chapter 1, as well as mostly fighting fodder before Arcann (except Heskal), yes I do.

Any improvement the Outlander might had is marginal at best.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Considering they haven't done shit between SoR and Chapter 1, as well as mostly fighting fodder before Arcann (except Heskal), yes I do.

Rise of the Emperor? No. No you don't. And considering Heskal is superior to Senya who we know can content with Vaylin, that's a mighty feat. Not to mention help raising the Gravestone.

Your opinion means shit compared to those in TOR.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Your opinion means shit compared to those in TOR.

Whose opinion? Quote it. You are wanking here that everyone says the Outlander improved. Prove it.

Arcann

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiate tacitly agrees that he can't control the Hero of Tython's mind, admitting that s/he's stronger than they once were:

"You won't control me again. I'm stronger than I was back then."

"Yes. I feel it."Fail to see how this puts the protag on Malgus' level though, considering it took four of then to defeat him. mmm

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Fail to see how this puts the protag on Malgus' level though, considering it took four of then to defeat him. mmm
Members of that Strike Team have not been officially revealed. It is ambiguous.

Does anything bring into doubt that it was four of the protags?

It was definitely at least four protags based on swtor.com, tbh.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Are you retarded? If that were true the Outlander would have died as soon as they were turned into a kebab. The entire point of giving you a choice is to get you around to his way of thinking. Also pretty sure the dream where he's actively heals you counts enough for consciousness. The grasping from you and zoltan is a sight to behold.

I guess you're about to get schooled by a retard. What's lower than a retarded I wonder. Quan? Because you're wrong, Valkorion can't use his power without the Outlander's permission. He's not giving you the choice because he wants to, as seen by the fact that he will take control of you to blast Arcann if you've given into him enough. But if you haven't he's up shit-creek. And no, being frozen in carbonite doesn't count as being conscious. It's a ****ing dream, moron. The Outlander can't prevent his actions if they're not conscious or if they're will is sufficiently lowered.

The Outlander doesn't die when they get stabbed because they're the goddamn Outlander. Qui-Gon's a pussy.

Valkorion mentally enslaved the Outlander inside his own mind and let him be set free.

The reason why Vitiate hasn't taken control of the Outlander yet Voice style is unexplained, but it's certainly within his capabilities.

I don't know what you're talking about. The fact is that if you haven't given into him, Valkorion can't take control of you despite wanting to. The version where he does proves that he would have done so to defeat Arcann, if he were capable.

Or we don't know his true intentions.

Unless you legitimately believe Valkorion considers the Outlander any more than a chess piece in his master plan.

And if so, then kek

We do know his true intentions in the case I'm mentioning. He wanted to whoop Arcann's whiny ass. If you tell him no he has to eat crow, unless you've given him enough control that he can ignore you. Which he does if he can.

When does he mentally enslave you? Are you just talking about the dream because lol if so.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Valkorion mentally enslaved the Outlander inside his own mind and let him be set free.

The reason why Vitiate hasn't taken control of the Outlander yet Voice style is unexplained, but it's certainly within his capabilities.


Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Or we don't know his true intentions.

Unless you legitimately believe Valkorion considers the Outlander any more than a chess piece in his master plan.

And if so, then kek

Originally posted by Nephthys
We do know his true intentions in the case I'm mentioning. He wanted to whoop Arcann's whiny ass. If you tell him no he has to eat crow, unless you've given him enough control that he can ignore you. Which he does if he can.

When does he mentally enslave you? Are you just talking about the dream because lol if so.
Member DarthAnt66 have a point.

Valkorion is acting like a nice guy in KoTFE. His motives are unclear but the Outlander's companions are worried and do not trust him.

Valkorion grants the Outlander a choice during difficult situations; to accept his assistance not. Valkorion doesn't attempts to control the Outlander at any point.

Yes, if you are depending upon Valkorion to get the job done then it is possible that such actions have consequences. We will find out in later chapters.

Does anyone have a rebuttal for the idea that the Carbonite would or would not have lasting effects thus far into Chapter 8? Beating a weakened/hindered Outlander really isn't out of Malgus's abilities as a duelist.

Just wondering, though I personally don't think the Outlander would be hindered that far into the story.

Didn't Valkorion heal him from the physical effects of that, though? By Chapter 9 the Hutt implies the only affects of it that remains is mentally.

No, he doesn't. He just asks if he can examine you because he's curious what effects prolonged freezing would have mentally. He also says that you look physically worse than last time he saw you and you get to respond by pointing to the freezing.

And naw, Valkorion is implied to be keeping you alive during your captivity but afterwards the Outlander stumbles around and is visibly weakened. Valkorion never heals that. Or at least, it's never stated or implied.


@ carthage, it's only a few days between the Outlander being revived to the Arcann duel. That far into the story isn't very far in terms of time.