Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Like the thread title said. People are sometimes rude, or they attack people, sometimes they even commit crimes. That's a problem and it should change.

What can we do to change this, are there campaigns that would help? What are the reasons for people behaving that way?

It depends on the community as to why. Certain communities? Reason is no fathers in sight, and piss poor excuses for criminal activity(I'm poor or someone I know got killed by a cop, time to rob).

The laws surrounding misconduct are fine as they are if not too strict. Other than that; the victims should stop being insecure twats and grow some skin.

Originally posted by Bardock42
What are the reasons for people behaving that way? They're human beings.

I think we can all agree that most of the people that do those things you mentioned in your OP (without providing a proper source to your claims, but I'm going to let it slide) are not rich white conservative American men. So I feel like we should really just only let rich white conservative American men decide whatever it is we do moving forward from here.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
They're human beings. This, frankly.

"Why are people rude and why do they misbehave?" is a very vague question. Can you be more specific about the rudeness and misbehaving you're referring to, Bardock?

Lol guys I hate to break this to you: this wasn't an attempt at a serious topic. Can't you tell? In another thread he didn't like the fact I was discussing both sides of the problem in a thread about police brutality.

Then suddenly a vague topic of "people are totally bad, what can we do?" popped up.

It's not very subtle, but it is what it is. But you see if certain other members did this..people would without a doubt call them a troll. Or the topic would be closed. Or both.

it's become very fashionable here to play the oppressed and abused victim.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
it's become very fashionable here to play the oppressed and abused victim.


Such truth you speak, far too many mother*ckers in this country actually seek out victim status. It's cool, it's hip, it's the beez kneez.

Can't blame them, I'd love to be able to utterly do no wrong because someone did wrong to me.

Originally posted by Surtur
Such truth you speak, far too many mother*ckers in this country actually seek out victim status. It's cool, it's hip, it's the beez kneez.

Can't blame them, I'd love to be able to utterly do no wrong because someone did wrong to me.

i was referring to this, actually:

Originally posted by Surtur
But you see if certain other members did this..people would without a doubt call them a troll. Or the topic would be closed. Or both.

Originally posted by Surtur
Lol guys I hate to break this to you: this wasn't an attempt at a serious topic. Can't you tell? In another thread he didn't like the fact I was discussing both sides of the problem in a thread about police brutality.

Then suddenly a vague topic of "people are totally bad, what can we do?" popped up.

It's not very subtle, but it is what it is. But you see if certain other members did this..people would without a doubt call them a troll. Or the topic would be closed. Or both.

Well, it wasn't just not subtle, I literally linked you to this thread so you can discuss your gripes with how people need to change too, not just violent police officers, without derailing threads on police brutality.

It's a thread on the topic you want to discuss in every single thread where a black person being shot or attacked by police is discussed, so why not just do it here?

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
i was referring to this, actually:

Which like I said: normally a person would get called a troll, or the topic closed, or temp banned for baiting people.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want anyone banned. I am, however, quite curious what the mods will do, if anything.

Originally posted by Surtur
Which like I said: normally a person would get called a troll, or the topic closed, or temp banned for baiting people.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want anyone banned. I am, however, quite curious what the mods will do if anything.

i don't think it will be considered a troll thread, particularly because it's not a troll thread.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
i don't think it will be considered a troll thread, particularly because it's not a troll thread.

Ah oh course it isn't a troll thread. Wait, let me guess..it's not a bait thread either, right?

Just a normal thread with no alternate motives in sight.

ok, what part of this topic do you feel was designed to antagonize people (you)?

Just holy shit dude. He more or less admitted he made the topic for me. If you honestly have to ask that question there is literally not a single answer I could give to satisfy you.

I think Bashar is saying you are playing the victim. Which tbh seems fair, I mean bait you into what? Actually discussing the topic you posted 3 links about in other threads?

You think there's an issue in communities that is partly to blame and being the cause of, from disrespectful behaviour to outright criminal behaviour (you don't come quite out and say it, but it seems like you mean black communities in particular, maybe you can clarify). So what can we do to change this? How can we improve the situation.

So yes, I made the topic for you, but not to bait or troll you, but to stop you from derailing other threads AND have the opportunity to discuss a topic you said yourself you care about. Admittedly I am sure this is not a great OP, I don't really make great threads, and I don't understand your point completely, but you could expand on it...

Originally posted by Surtur
Just holy shit dude. He more or less admitted he made the topic for me. If you honestly have to ask that question there is literally not a single answer I could give to satisfy you.

pretty sure you do not understand what "trolling" means.

Surtur, you're off here. I've opened up threads for people after they've posted a possible interesting topic as a means for them to not derail another thread with said interesting topic; it does seem like B42 was doing this here.

This here is an example of a blatant butthurt fueled troll thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f11/t619556.html

Originally posted by Bardock42
I think Bashar is saying you are playing the victim. Which tbh seems fair, I mean bait you into what? Actually discussing the topic you posted 3 links about in other threads?

You think there's an issue in communities that is partly to blame and being the cause of, from disrespectful behaviour to outright criminal behaviour (you don't come quite out and say it, but it seems like you mean black communities in particular, maybe you can clarify). So what can we do to change this? How can we improve the situation.

So yes, I made the topic for you, but not to bait or troll you, but to stop you from derailing other threads AND have the opportunity to discuss a topic you said yourself you care about.

Bashar himself being a troll it figures he'd say it. But here is the thing, you made some vague topic about this, and that was supposed to be your attempt to open up a "discussion".

I frankly don't buy it.

So I will say this to you again: If I see people in topics acting like something is one sided..I will be there to discuss the other side. Way to solve this is for people to not act that way.

Originally posted by Surtur
Bashar himself being a troll it figures he'd say it.

only one of us in name-calling. very mature and TOTALLY NOT an act of naked hypocrisy.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
pretty sure you do not understand what "trolling" means.

You realize there is no one set definition for what constitutes trolling, right? No? Maybe so?

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
only one of us in name-calling. very mature and TOTALLY NOT an act of naked hypocrisy.

But the problem is you are a troll. Not just here, but in various other places.

I'm about calling a spade a spade. I've seen you trolling this board for a long time. It is what it is, but lets not pretend otherwise.

There is nothing inherently immature about giving something the proper label. Sorta like calling a hooker a whore, well..she is a whore.

your attempt to derail this thread is a clear act of trolling.

my forthwith ignoring of your lying and sniveling would be it's exact opposite.

But you can't troll threads that were created to troll.

I will grant you the trolling is not as obvious as others, but there nonetheless.

Or heres the thing, if it truly wasn't meant to troll? Then you worded it all wrong. Because the way it is worded now just screams troll. Passive aggressive trolling, but still trolling.

If it was meant to be serious and have serious discussion, it should of been more then "people are bad, how do we change it?!"

Originally posted by Surtur
Bashar himself being a troll it figures he'd say it. But here is the thing, you made some vague topic about this, and that was supposed to be your attempt to open up a "discussion".

I frankly don't buy it.

So I will say this to you again: If I see people in topics acting like something is one sided..I will be there to discuss the other side. .

To be fair, I didn't think you would actually stop derailing, I just thought I'd give you the chance. If you don't like this thread about it, and that's fair, like I said it's not a very well-crafted thread, you could just open your own one though, like it's a bit silly to have you in every thread where some teenager gets murdered saying "yeah, but they are also to blame for jaywalking".

Originally posted by Surtur
Way to solve this is for people to not act that way

This is good, this is what I meant. So how do we get people to not act that way? Education? Fines? Jail? Does media play a part? Does aggressive policing play a part?

Originally posted by Bardock42
To be fair, I didn't think you would actually stop derailing, I just thought I'd give you the chance. If you don't like this thread about it, and that's fair, like I said it's not a very well-crafted thread, you could just open your own one though, like it's a bit silly to have you in every thread where some teenager gets murdered saying "yeah, but they are also to blame for jaywalking".



This is good, this is what I meant. So how do we get people to not act that way? Education? Fines? Jail?

So you made the thread thinking it wouldn't work anyways and..you say you weren't trolling, but you totally admit you made a thread you thought wouldn't solve anything.

Originally posted by Surtur
So you made the thread thinking it wouldn't work anyways and..you say you weren't trolling, but you totally admit you made a thread you thought wouldn't solve anything.

I don't think my estimation of the potential success of a thread has anything to do with trolling.

But I edited cause in my first reading of your post I was too quick to start a reply, you talked about people quit to act that way and I think we should discuss this further. For one "that way" is still pretty ill defined, and it seems to span a long list of ways to behave, how would you define the way that people behave that needs to change?

And secondly, I repost my question about what we can do to improve the situation. So how do we get people to not act that way? Education? Fines? Jail?

Originally posted by Surtur
Just holy shit dude. He more or less admitted he made the topic for me. If you honestly have to ask that question there is literally not a single answer I could give to satisfy you.

While I do agree with you, it's not really trolling. I've created threads for arguments I've had with others that were derailing threads. Sometimes at the request of mods. Hell, a couple of them, for sure, were for Bardock42, specifically.

It is not trolling to create a thread for an often-off-topic topic. It helps center the discussions.




Now....Bardock42's intentions and the presentation may be trollish...but that's a mods call.


As a poster, this thread doesn't bother me. I see it as unnecessarily vague and almost "un-discuss-able." Why are humans bad n'stuff?


Is that really just another question on the Problem of Evil?

Originally posted by dadudemon
While I do agree with you, it's not really trolling. I've created threads for arguments I've had with others that were derailing threads. Sometimes at the request of mods. Hell, a couple of them, for sure, were for Bardock42, specifically.

It is not trolling to create a thread for an often-off-topic topic. It helps center the discussions.




Now....Bardock42's intentions and the presentation may be trollish...but that's a mods call.


As a poster, this thread doesn't bother me. I see it as unnecessarily vague and almost "un-discuss-able." Why are humans bad n'stuff?


Is that really just another question on the Problem of Evil?

I mean it to be more about what can we do to make people valuable, respectful and law-abiding members of society, and what are the reasons some people aren't.

Pretty broad, but I guess not quite as broad as evil itself...but it's sort of the point, basically a brainstorm on pretty much anything related to this topic.

Originally posted by Bardock42
And secondly, I repost my question about what we can do to improve the situation. So how do we get people to not act that way? Education? Fines? Jail?


Extensive research shows that the best ways to combat crime are:


1. Education.
2. Fighting poverty.



Here's a specific list:

https://www.justgive.org/donations/prevent-crime.jsp

Yeah, those would be on the top of my list as well. If we increase spending on education and on programs that help people out of poverty (like food stamps, shoutout to the other thread), a lot of the issues we see would be alleviate.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I mean it to be more about what can we do to make people valuable, respectful and law-abiding members of society, and what are the reasons some people aren't.

Eliminate the need for unnecessary, repetitive, and mundane jobs.

Create holodecs.

Create replicators.


Reduce the number of hours worked in a week to 20. Do not allow people to work more than that without getting permission from a qualified mental health professional (because, hey, sometimes I like to work quite a bit).



Originally posted by Bardock42
Pretty broad, but I guess not quite as broad as evil itself...but it's sort of the point, basically a brainstorm on pretty much anything related to this topic.

The Mormons have an answer for your problem, sort of. They think that Satan, who was once one of the highest angels in heaven, wanted to be the Christ. But humankind would not be allowed free agency. They would have to only choose good. Their wills and intellect would be restricted to the set of behaviors that were deemed as righteous or neutral, but none of them bad.

This was Lucifer's Plan of Salvation. In his Plan, all human souls would be saved and no one would not go to heaven.

So, to answer your question on how to get rid of the innate evil in man, you have to use Satan's plan: restrict the set of human behaviors to those elements that are only righteous or neutral.

Humans could no longer "not help each other." They could no longer think bad things about each other. We wouldn't be capable of doing it.



Another way to view this issue is to view it from an alien's eyes. Pretend there is a species of alien out there that is far superior to humans in both intelligence and social constructs. They may have much more complicated layers of what constitutes good and evil compared to humans.

To make this point make more sense, think of it like animals. A dog is not intelligent enough to know that what it is doing is wrong (from a human's eyes) so we overlook that. The same wrong behavior in a human would not be acceptable. So there may be aliens out there that view us as doing very wrong things simply because we are ignorant of it or incapable of understanding that it is wrong.

And don't confuse this thinking it is some sort of complex custom that humans could understand. It could be something absurd like talking to your ancestors using the special parts of your brain that allow you to communicate, telepathically, with your ancestors in the past. This may be seen as essential for the growth and development of this superior species. And because human lack the ability to understand, comprehend, and actually do this, we would be seen as "ignorant dogs that just don't know any better."




So, perhaps, humans, even if they do nothing wrong, may still be doing something wrong. So even if we fixed the wrongs in what humans are doing, we may not be fixing them at all. We could have other wrongs that we are ignorant of. Also, I don't think the wrongs in humans are fixable without genetic reprogramming.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I don't think my estimation of the potential success of a thread has anything to do with trolling.

But I edited cause in my first reading of your post I was too quick to start a reply, you talked about people quit to act that way and I think we should discuss this further. For one "that way" is still pretty ill defined, and it seems to span a long list of ways to behave, how would you define the way that people behave that needs to change?

And secondly, I repost my question about what we can do to improve the situation. So how do we get people to not act that way? Education? Fines? Jail?

You say your intent was not to troll. You say your intent was not to bait. You say it was so a specific poster(me) would not derail threads. This is the reason you gave for why you began this topic.

You then said you didn't think the thread would actually solve anything despite this being *the very reason* you claimed to of started it in the first place.

So like someone else said, a topic to discuss these problems isn't trollish, but you sure as hell presented it in a way that was.

Of course if you truly want to discuss ways to prevent people from turning into criminals, we can start with "good parenting". Don't let your kids get away with murder. Don't ever be one of those parents who thinks the problem is not their child, but everyone else.

Does it mean a person with good parents is guaranteed to be an upstanding member of society? Oh hell no, but notice that a lot of criminals tend to come from broken homes.

"Good parenting". That sounds good. What do you think society or government can do to improve parenting?

I also seriously think we need to find some way to stop certain people from procreating. Too many times have I seen women pop out a damn kid just so they can get money from the government. They don't give a shit about the kid, and then the kid tends to grow up not giving a shit about anyone else.

Now obviously we have no way to safely sterilize people or to otherwise stop them from having kids. So what do we do? Not sure, maybe set up a system to make sure any government assistance is spent on the kids and only the kids. Maybe something like an EBT card that can only be used to purchase certain things. So they can buy food or clothes for the kid, but momma doesn't get her nails done up unless the money comes out of her own pocket.

In fact hell if we're going to talk about how to get people to stop misbehaving: the thing I just suggested? Do it with child support. Make it so the money from child support can only ever be spent on the kid, period. If a single penny goes to things other then the kid then all child support should be revoked.

Oh, and another way to help? Stop locking men into situations and not women. A female can get rid of a baby? Sweet, either the man can as well or nobody can. The woman can kill the baby, but I'm just talking about the man being able to give up all rights to the child. Surely in a sane world this would be a no brainer? Plus surely without a doubt any feminist would support this given they want equal rights for everyone.