Foreign Immigration

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Time-Immemorial
Australia is country is notoriously noted for having one of the strictest immigration policies. Its either a pay in system that cost $11 million for citizenship or you have to be wanted fro a trade, or skill.

How do countries like this go without criticism from the left and media.

And should the US adopt a policy like this. The world is filling up with more and more people.

In my opinion The US can't be a lifeboat for the world and failed states can't just come here.

Newjak
When you say this country which country are referring to?

Time-Immemorial
My bad, Australia.

Newjak
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
My bad, Australia. Okay and the point of this thread is to ask why Americans are so concerned with American Immigration policies and not as focused on Australian ones?

Time-Immemorial
Two parts, One Australia is moving up in things because they allow the best in and they track immigration and keep a tight lid on it.

What we do here now with Obama signing executive amnesty is almost treason and has zero accountability.

Newjak
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Two parts, One Australia is moving up in things because they allow the best in and they track immigration and keep a tight lid on it.

What we do here now with Obama signing executive amnesty is almost treason and has zero accountability. So your point is to make baseless claims?

For one we don't know Australia is going to get the best brightest because if the best and brightest don't want to go to Australia it doesn't matter how strict they are.

Secondly immigration has always been a major part of American culture and has often brought good things and some bad as well. But overall it has been a positive net gain for us.

Time-Immemorial
I made no baseless claims, I read up on their immigration policy, maybe you should toothumb up

Yes immigration in the past has been good, now its exploited for political gain and used for votes, and illegal voting.

The system is broken.

Star428
Legal immigration is a part of our culture. Funny how liberals always conveniently leave that significant detail out.

Newjak
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I made no baseless claims, I read up on their immigration policy, maybe you should toothumb up

Yes immigration in the past has been good, now its exploited for political gain and used for votes, and illegal voting.

The system is broken. I have and they are strict. Heck even the current refugees which are brought there are being given temp visas that only last three years. At which point they can be immediately deported.

Your baseless claim comes from you saying this is a good step will allow Australia to thrive. That has yet to be seen. I would decline to say they are going to get the best and the brightest as you described in this scenario because there are more alluring places to go to for the best and brightest around the world. And if a talented person decides to move to Australia it will probably be for other reasons than tight immigration policies.

The system isn't really that more broken than it was back than. People still came here illegally, some as refugees and they became productive members of society. The major difference is we have much better ways to record and track people in current times.

Newjak
Originally posted by Star428
Legal immigration is a part of our culture. Funny how liberals always conveniently leave that significant detail out. That's not true though. We've had people sneaking into this country for a long long time.

Time-Immemorial
Oh yea, so the Obama policy, let em all inthumb up

Works for you youlaughing out loud

Star428
Originally posted by Newjak
That's not true though. We've had people sneaking into this country for a long long time.



LOL. So ****ing what? They're breaking the law. They've always been breaking the law when they do that. It is true. You can deny it all you like.

Newjak
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Oh yea, so the Obama policy, let em all inthumb up

Works for you youlaughing out loud I never said that. I do think we are hurting ourselves by having too strict of an immigration policy. Mostly because that policy is based on unfounded fears.

The current immigration process needs to be more streamlined so people don't feel forced to have to traverse a system that's purpose is to hinder immigration as much as possible.

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Newjak
I never said that. I do think we are hurting ourselves by having too strict of an immigration policy. Mostly because that policy is based on unfounded fears.

The current immigration process needs to be more streamlined so people don't feel forced to have to traverse a system that's purpose is to hinder immigration as much as possible.

Typical liberal rhetoric "the system needs to be streamlined"

HOW? You always offer that end result without offering a actual solution.

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Star428
LOL. So ****ing what? They're breaking the law. They've always been breaking the law when they do that. It is true. You can deny it all you like.

Laws don't matter to liberals, only progress towards their diverse utopia of fruitcakes.

Q99
Originally posted by Star428
LOL. So ****ing what? They're breaking the law. They've always been breaking the law when they do that. It is true. You can deny it all you like.


Well, of course we can deny it- That's not actually how the law works, after all.


See, if a law is violated, there's a trial and all that, right? But you don't see a trial for someone crossing the border, and nor does someone's visa expiring result in trials or such either, and it can't be made illegal to just be something- status offense, highly unconstitutional.

It's not a crime to be undocumented, it's just that non-citizens don't have a right to not be deported.

"Illegal immigrant" is a bit of a misnomer. Undocumented immigrant is much more accurate, because it's something that is just about their status- grant the documented status and it's no different than any other immigration.




It's not that people so much leave it out, as pointing out that it's an easily fixed thing.

If I have a 'problem,' and I can remove the problem by signing some paperwork, and then it's not a problem any more, that sounds like not the most serious of problems.


Whether someone is documented or not is a technicality, the real question is, 'should we do so?'. And considering they often live here for decades while contributing and kicking them out would create both a big hole in our economy and a humanitarian crisis, and we've have people from that culture mix with ours for centuries- which is impressive as we're only a bit over two centuries old- and thus can fairly confidently answer any cultural compatibility issues, I say 'yes, the costs of not doing so are much more significant than the costs of filling out paperwork.'

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Q99


It's not a crime to be undocumented, it's just that non-citizens don't have a right to not be deported.


laughing out loud

Nice joke.

Newjak
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Typical liberal rhetoric "the system needs to be streamlined"

HOW? You always offer that end result without offering a actual solution. The system needs overhauled, refined, or retooled. Do those work better for you.

Also this is a dismissive tactic. I've seen used many times before to try and sideline a topic. Let clear it up for you. You do not need to have a perfect solution to be able to realize something is broken.

Or here is a better analogy. Your car breaks down and steam is pouring from the front. You are saying if you don't know how to fix an engine you can not make the statement that it needs fixed.

You don't need to have all the answers to get to a goal state. You can still understand the current system has flaws and what the final goal should be. In fact it is down right stupid to say I have all the answers needed to get us to a more streamlined state.

Still probably a good start would be to reduce the number of policies that restrict who can immigrate. As well as reducing the cost and quickness of attaining visas.

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Newjak
The system needs overhauled, refined, or retooled. Do those work better for you.

Also this is a dismissive tactic. I've seen used many times before to try and sideline a topic. Let clear it up for you. You do not need to have a perfect solution to be able to realize something is broken.

Or here is a better analogy. Your car breaks down and steam is pouring from the front. You are saying if you don't know how to fix an engine you can not make the statement that it needs fixed.

You don't need to have all the answers to get to a goal state. You can still understand the current system has flaws and what the final goal should be. In fact it is down right stupid to say I have all the answers needed to get us to a more streamlined state.

Still probably a good start would be to reduce the number of policies that restrict who can immigrate. As well as reducing the cost and quickness of attaining visas.

So let more people in, quicker and faster..thats your solution.

SMH

Newjak
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
So let more people in, quicker and faster..thats your solution.

SMH I think it is better than trying to isolate ourselves and keep people out.

Robtard
Originally posted by Newjak
I think it is better than trying to isolate ourselves and keep people out.

Also should be pointed out that it's specific immigrants which are the issue, or as Bill Maher said it so eloquently years ago on his show: "if it was a bunch of blonde Swedes getting in, those people wouldn't care" (I paraphrased, as it was years ago)

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Newjak
I think it is better than trying to isolate ourselves and keep people out.

When has any country or nation that just lets everyone in ever worked?

You do realize America is a tipping point.

Social Security will be a bust soon, as will Medicare.

We have almost 20 trillion in debt with no end in sight.

We can't make good trade deals. We can't win on trade.

Our deficits are skyrocketing.

We spent $43 million on a gas station in another country thats sure to be blown up in the next year.

We can't even feed the kids we have here.

Adding more to this system is good to you.

Explain that one.

How do you even justify that thinking?

Bardock42
You could easily feed the kids you have here. Republicans just refuse to. The US is doing well in basically every way, except where conservative policy is hurting American people on purpose.

Star428
Originally posted by Bardock42
You could easily feed the kids you have here. Republicans just refuse to. The US is doing well in basically every way, except where conservative policy is hurting American people on purpose.



God, you're so stupid. Money doesn't just grow on trees, idiot. US doing well in every way, my ass. LMAO. You haven't been over here in America grocery shopping lately have you? Inflation is already outrageous. I can just barely afford to feed myself on a monthly basis now and I get a decent amount of money per month too. Dude, seriously... just STFU. You don't know what in the Hell you're talking about when it comes to America as you've shown over and over and over and over yet again.

Time-Immemorial
I guess the $43 million dollars Obama spent on a gas station was the republicans fault as well.

Star428
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I guess the $43 million dollars Obama spent on a gas station was the republicans fault as well.



Yeah, LOL. I"m sure that acording to Bardock it was. If you looked up the word "clueless" in the dictionary I bet there'd be a picture of him.

Time-Immemorial
I find it hard to believe anyone can actually think like him, which is why I just think he is a anti american troll. Best just to ignore him.

Star428
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I find it hard to believe anyone can actually think like him, which is why I just think he is a anti american troll. Best just to ignore him.



Oh, trust me. I've been seriously considering it.

Bardock42
I like America, big fan...got some big issues, but overall good country.

Star428
If you really liked America then you would want what is best for her. Electing another goddamned democrat would finish what Obama started: Destroying America. It would put the final nail in her coffin for sure.

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Star428
Yeah, LOL. I"m sure that acording to Bardock it was. If you looked up the word "clueless" in the dictionary I bet there'd be a picture of him.

Notice how none of the typical liberal posters refused to even post in that thread about the $43 million dollar gas stationlaughing out loud

They can't accept their Obama failed.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Star428
If you really liked America then you would want what is best for her. Electing another goddamned democrat would finish what Obama started: Destroying America. It would put the final nail in her coffin for sure.

But you know that Democrats think that what they are doing is best for America, right? I mean you disagree, and that's fair enough, but they think their way is better, they don't want to make America bad or anything.

Star428
Originally posted by Bardock42
But you know that Democrats think that what they are doing is best for America, right? I mean you disagree, and that's fair enough, but they think their way is better, they don't want to make America bad or anything.



They want a socialist so-called "utopia" and they will break any law to achieve it.. They don't care about the Constitution, God, individual rights, or any of the principles our Republic was founded on. They're about as anti-American as anyone can get.


Oh, they also want bigger government. Bigger government means less freedom for individuals.

As government expands, liberty contracts- Ronald Reagan (one of the wisest C-in-C's we've ever had; Republican, btwsmile)

Q99
Originally posted by Star428
They want a socialist so-called "utopia" and they will break any law to achieve it..

Except they aren't breaking laws, they're trying to pass laws.



Once again, you're trying to define 'being an undocumented immigrant' as a crime, which is itself unconstitutional. The constitution, actually, says very little about immigration. It *does* have a claus about general welfare.

Unconstitutional does not mean 'disagrees with Star,' nor does constitutional mean 'agrees with Star.'



False, most are Christian, and taking care of your fellow man has a *lot* of material in the Bible.

Here's a Jesus quote for you, Matthew 25:41

"Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done unto me. 41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. "

Jesus flat-out says, for not feeding and clothing a stranger, you get cast into everlasting fire. And that how you treat the least of people, is how you treat Jesus.

Poor immigrants, refugees, and the like, strike me as the 'least.' Jesus did not say, 'feed, cloth, and provide drink to the least, except for this lot,' after all.




False, they view many of their policies as a way to help individual rights. *You* may disagree, but that doesn't change their view.

In the case of gay marriage and such, that's clearing adding additional rights.



General welfare is in the constitution, 'all are created equal,' voting to decide what to do which is how they want to implement stuff, etc..




You're defining anti-American as anti-your side.




False, not inherent at all. Protecting people's freedoms involves having people to guard them. Stuff like more access to education increases freedom. Requiring higher wages lowers corporate freedom but raising individual freedom, preventing wage-slave conditions, etc..


Note that, say, the higher rax rates and such? Ones that the US has used before, not new. If America has used them before for decades at a time, including under Republicans, why didn't they cause horrible effects back then?


Also note the government expanded more under Bush than Obama.




Says Reagan. Many Americans disagree, and I think the ones who disagree are right.


Don't confuse your opinion or the opinion of those who agree with you as an absolute, or what defines America.

The Constitution has a section that the government can act in the general welfare of the American people, and the founding father who set it down was quite clear that this meant that the government should help people out, as long as it's in general. Some founding fathers definitely disagree with you, in parts that got in to the constitution, so saying it's Anti-American/anti-American Principles/Anti-Constitution is all false- it's just American principles that have been there since day 1 that you, personally, do not emphasize as much.

Star428
Damn right I"ll continue to bring up God whether u or anyone else likes it or not. This country was founded on Christianity and a growing number of people in the country turning away from Him is why we are morally bankrupt as a nation. Things like children being forced by teachers to say "God is not real" (which I posted about in religion forum) makes me sick to my stomach. Then there was the time where students were forced to recite "There is no God but Allah". Schools should not be teaching shit like that to our children.


Democrats put more value on the lives of evil murderers than they do innocent unborn children. Nuff' said.

-Pr-
Australia is NOT a good measuring stick, tbh.

They don't just take in the best of the best, they take in almost ANYONE with a trade. It's gotten to the point where people going over there get treated like shit by the locals because they're, to use a term "taking all the jobs" and so on.

Originally posted by Star428
This country was founded on Christianity

Was it though? I thought your original constitution was very clear about the separation of church and state.

Star428
It is but by "founded on Christianity" I mean that the overwhelming majority (if not all) of the people were Christians so the law of the land (the Constitution) was made for Christians by Christians. Our currency has "In God We Trust" on it and our nation's Pledge of Allegiance contains the words "One nation. Under God". God has always been an important part of Traditional American values. Up until recently, of course. Unfortunately.

snowdragon
It wouldn't matter if USA adopted a policy similar to Australia in regards to requiring a trade.

Why would we need new laws to not enforce? We already have a problem enforcing the ones on the books as it stands.

Vote Trump and win a million mile tall wall around Murica!

-Pr-
Originally posted by Star428
It is but by "founded on Christianity" I mean that the overwhelming majority (if not all) of the people were Christians so the law of the land (the Constitution) was made for Christians by Christians. Our currency has "In God We Trust" on it and our nation's Pledge of Allegiance contains the words "One nation. Under God". God has always been an important part of Traditional American values. Up until recently, of course. Unfortunately.

TBH I think that's pushing it a bit.

"in god we trust" and "under god" was only added in the last century, wasn't it?

TBH, traditional American values don't sound all that great. Just imo.

Star428
Well, you're not American so your opinion is actually irrelevant on whether our traditional values are "that great" or not... No offense.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Star428
Well, you're not American so your opinion is actually irrelevant on whether our traditional values are "that great" or not... No offense.

Fair enough. There are some similarities, though, in religious attitudes between America and Ireland, or at least, an Ireland from many years ago, so it's hard not to draw a comparison.

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by -Pr-
Fair enough. There are some similarities, though, in religious attitudes between America and Ireland, or at least, an Ireland from many years ago, so it's hard not to draw a comparison.

The only good thing we get from Ireland is Jameson.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
The only good thing we get from Ireland is Jameson.

lol. Typical American. Only pretends to love the Irish when it suits them.

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by -Pr-
lol. Typical American. Only pretends to love the Irish when it suits them.

you could have just laughed, without being snoody.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
you could have just laughed, without being snoody.

If it was funny I would have.

pot, kettle much, though?

Adam Grimes
Originally posted by Star428
Well, you're not American so your opinion is actually irrelevant on whether our traditional values are "that great" or not... No offense. laughing out loud

This guy...

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by -Pr-
If it was funny I would have.

pot, kettle much, though?

You did lol..

-Pr-
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
You did lol..

Not the kind of laugh I'm sure you were expecting.

Robtard
Originally posted by -Pr-
lol. Typical American. Only pretends to love the Irish when it suits them.

That's not really fair, we're not all senseless assclowns who make a mockery of ourselves on a daily basis. Not offended, but just thought I'd point that out.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Robtard
That's not really fair, we're not all senseless assclowns who make a mockery of ourselves on a daily basis. Not offended, but just thought I'd point that out.

That's why I said "typical", as in, close to the stereotype. At least that was the intent. That and the whole "my cousin once knew a guy who had a pint in a pub in Oirland" stuff. So many American tourists love to pull that shit.

There are plenty of nice, intelligent Americans. I just feel bad for all the shit you guys have to put up with.

Robtard
Fair enough

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by -Pr-
That's why I said "typical", as in, close to the stereotype. At least that was the intent. That and the whole "my cousin once knew a guy who had a pint in a pub in Oirland" stuff. So many American tourists love to pull that shit.

There are plenty of nice, intelligent Americans. I just feel bad for all the shit you guys have to put up with.

You serious get too butt hurt about Irish jokes. Like its a joke, it's common, learn to just laugh. I know you don't drink, hence the joke.

BIGWHITESEXY
Originally posted by -Pr-
lol. Typical American. Only pretends to love the Irish when it suits them.
IS IT TRUE THAT IN IRELAND THERE ARE MORE ALCOHOLICS PER CAPITA THAN PEOPLE?

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by BIGWHITESEXY
IS IT TRUE THAT IN IRELAND THERE ARE MORE ALCOHOLICS PER CAPITA THAN PEOPLE?

laughing out loudlaughing out loud

-Pr-
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
You serious get too butt hurt about Irish jokes. Like its a joke, it's common, learn to just laugh. I know you don't drink, hence the joke.

I don't mind Irish jokes. I just prefer it when they're funny, like I said.

You don't get to try to harass me in PMs and then pretend we're friends and that I should laugh at your "jokes".

Originally posted by BIGWHITESEXY
IS IT TRUE THAT IN IRELAND THERE ARE MORE ALCOHOLICS PER CAPITA THAN PEOPLE?

Hey! We do our best!

Time-Immemorial
Oh what was that like a year ago? You got in my face, I got in yours. Men get over it.

BIGWHITESEXY
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
laughing out loudlaughing out loud
IS IT TRUE?

Time-Immemorial
I'm at a friends house in Manhatten, bunch of people here. I repeated what you said and we were all crying laughing.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Oh what was that like a year ago? You got in my face, I got in yours. Men get over it.

Stop being a ****, then we'll see.

Time-Immemorial
How long is my probation?

-Pr-
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I'm at a friends house in Manhatten, bunch of people here. I repeated what you said and we were all crying laughing.

Well what he said was funny. shrug

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
How long is my probation?

Up to you.

Newjak
Originally posted by Star428
It is but by "founded on Christianity" I mean that the overwhelming majority (if not all) of the people were Christians so the law of the land (the Constitution) was made for Christians by Christians. Our currency has "In God We Trust" on it and our nation's Pledge of Allegiance contains the words "One nation. Under God". God has always been an important part of Traditional American values. Up until recently, of course. Unfortunately. Those weren't added until much later to our currency and pledge. In there are a significant number of people that would like to see us go back to how things were originally without the God label.

I'm one of them.

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
When has any country or nation that just lets everyone in ever worked?

You do realize America is a tipping point.

Social Security will be a bust soon, as will Medicare.

We have almost 20 trillion in debt with no end in sight.

We can't make good trade deals. We can't win on trade.

Our deficits are skyrocketing.

We spent $43 million on a gas station in another country thats sure to be blown up in the next year.

We can't even feed the kids we have here.

Adding more to this system is good to you.

Explain that one.

How do you even justify that thinking?

NewJack you didn't respond to my response to you

Newjak
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
NewJack you didn't respond to my response to you Some of those are legit problems some of them are you trying to use scare tactics.

We have more than enough resources to handle the number of immigrants we get in a year both legally and illegally.

Some of it is using our resources better... like food.

Some of it is you not realizing these people will be paying taxes on their income and transactions so it is not like they will be only a net loss on the economy. Which is something you have to seriously consider before you say some of the stuff like they will be a drain on the economy.

There answered.

Star428
Although it's true that the forefathers intent was to seperate church and state that still doesn't change the fact that they made references to God several times in both Constitution and Declaration of Independence. They even implied that Jesus was God when they signed document "In the year of our Lord":



http://www.libertyunderfire.org/2011/07/five-references-to-god-in-the-declaration-of-independence/


http://www.christianpost.com/news/god-and-the-constitution-129658/



It's quite clear to me that our Republic was founded on Christianity.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Star428
Although it's true that the forefathers intent was to seperate church and state that still doesn't change the fact that they made references to God several times in both Constitution and Declaration of Independence. They even stated that Jesus was God when they signed document "In the year of our Lord":



http://www.libertyunderfire.org/2011/07/five-references-to-god-in-the-declaration-of-independence/


http://www.christianpost.com/news/god-and-the-constitution-129658/



It's quite clear to me that our Republic was founded on Christianity.

So you're saying they wanted to separate church and state but yet... Didn't want to, also?

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Star428
Well, you're not American so your opinion is actually irrelevant on whether our traditional values are "that great" or not... No offense.
No offense, but you're a sorry excuse for an American.

Actually some offense.

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Newjak
Some of those are legit problems some of them are you trying to use scare tactics.

We have more than enough resources to handle the number of immigrants we get in a year both legally and illegally.

Some of it is using our resources better... like food.

Some of it is you not realizing these people will be paying taxes on their income and transactions so it is not like they will be only a net loss on the economy. Which is something you have to seriously consider before you say some of the stuff like they will be a drain on the economy.

There answered.

The fact you think any of what I said was fear tactics is telling. Point out exactly which part.

Social Security? Medicare?

Newjak
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
The fact you think any of what I said was fear tactics is telling. Point out exactly which part.

Social Security? Medicare? We spent $43 million on a gas station in another country thats sure to be blown up in the next year.

You do realize America is a tipping point.

We have almost 20 trillion in debt with no end in sight.

We can't make good trade deals. We can't win on trade.

Our deficits are skyrocketing.

There ya go.

The 43 million dollar natural gas station is silly but it isn't going to break us. Including it on this topic is at this point a political ploy

The others are mostly unfounded fears. America is not at the tipping point. We still have an incredibly strong economy. We still consume many goods so people are more than willing to sell us stuff and trade with us.

Our deficits are not skyrocketing they have actually declined some.

The debt with no end in site is also fear mongering. Almost no country in the world currently operates without debt. Only the really really small ones do. Too much debt is a bad thing and I want to see the deficit continue to decline. Debt isn't the end of all in a modern economy though.

Social Security is a legitimate concern but you are once equating any new immigrants into the us as a guaranteed net loss to the economy. Which historically has not been the case.

Time-Immemorial
It's "silly."

Funny your criticism of an astronomical waste of money renders the term "silly."

You think that is the only "Silly" mistake Obama has made on spending money, how about the $500,000,000 on 4-5 syrian rebels? Another "silly?"

I don't need to read any thing else you said cause your just a bias person who cannot give criticism where it is due.

The deficits are skyrocketing, and you stupid, or just ignorant. How did they just raise the debt ceiling to "no set limit." if they were declining.

Newjak
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
It's "silly."

Funny your criticism of an astronomical waste of money renders the term "silly."

You think that is the only "Silly" mistake Obama has made on spending money, how about the $500,000,000 on 4-5 syrian rebels? Another "silly?"

I don't need to read any thing else you said cause your just a bias person who cannot give criticism where it is due.

The deficits are skyrocketing, and you stupid, or just ignorant. How did they just raise the debt ceiling to "no set limit." if they were declining. It's like trying to have a discussion with a wall.

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Newjak
It's like trying to have a discussion with a wall.

Yea you are "silly" wall.

Obama has spent $6.5 trillion dollars in 7 years.

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