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Fight takes place in the Valley of the Dark Lords

Krayt's got far greater quantity and quality in terms of lightsaber feats, he should win solidly.

Krayt.

Krayt

I'd side with Plagueis mostly through inference.

Originally posted by ILS
I'd side with Plagueis mostly through inference.

I wouldn't infer Plagueis to be better than Krayt. He was very fast, but every time he faced someone who could keep up with his speed, he turned to the force to win.

He was skilled sabers, but he didn't like sabers in the same way most top duelists do, so he didn't push himself to the limits, IMO.

Yeah, that's nice. When you have something more than arbitrary commentary and backwards logic to offer for once, you let me know.

Lulz. Especially at, "He didn't like lightsabers, so he probably wasn't that great." I remember how much Sidious loved lightsabers though, so he might have a point.

Originally posted by ILS
Yeah, that's nice. When you have something more than arbitrary commentary and backwards logic to offer for once, you let me know.

How's it backwards? Someone who cares more about one area will normally try harder. He preferred the force, so he's more a force type.

Plus it does tie in to his actual battle results- again, when faced with a hard duel, he turned to his most reliable area, that is his force powers, to win.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Lulz. Especially at, "He didn't like lightsabers, so he probably wasn't that great." I remember how much Sidious loved lightsabers though, so he might have a point.

Sids cackled wildly while using sabers, he really seemed to enjoy his duels

Who gives a shit what he prefers or what type randominternetguy449 assigns him? That doesn't inherently preclude him from being better than Krayt.

He outdueled Venamis without the Force, despite Venamis knowing how he duels quite literally inside and out. I don't think you can get much less reliant on offensive Force use than that. Give me a break, Q99. I know you like Krayt but this is excessive.

Originally posted by ILS
Who gives a shit what he prefers or what type randominternetguy449 assigns him? That doesn't inherently preclude him from being better than Krayt.

No, but I like to talk character motives and stuff when discussing how their develop their abilities. Of course it's nothing definitive on their own.




Fair enough, I misremembered the duel some and re-read it.




*Looks up thread*

Pretty much everyone is voting Krayt here, so I don't get why it'd be 'excessive'. I just thought I'd add something beyond the opinion itself.

Why do I feel like Q receives undeserved rage many a time :mmm:

Anyways, gimme Plagueis.

Undeserved? 2 Sith Lords > 1 Sith Lord deserves all the rage in the world.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Undeserved? 2 Sith Lords > 1 Sith Lord deserves all the rage in the world.

Hah, because numbers mattering is sooo out there?


Yes, it turns out, having a numerical advantage is normally a significant advantage.

It can be counteracted by other significant advantages, but it'd spell the win in a heck of a lot of fights.

Maul and Savage didn't win because Savage isn't a real Sith Lord.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Maul and Savage didn't win because Savage isn't a real Sith Lord.

That and because Sidious's other strengths make him exceptional even for a sith lord.


Just because I say something, I can just be referring to it as a rule of thumb, not an absolute, y'know (Aaand I'm pretty sure I've said that before ^^)

An example of what I mean is, say, assume you have Maul and Dooku, both 'only' apprentice lords, working together they could likely beat Revan, or Exar Kun, or yadda yadda. The list of who they couldn't beat is pretty short. It's not true all the time, but it's often the case.

What the hell are you talking about? What is an "apprentice" Lord. You're either a Darth or you aren't. And the list of who they couldn't beat isn't nearly as short as you seem to think it is. You don't need to be Sidious to take on Maul and Dooku at the same time.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
What the hell are you talking about? What is an "apprentice" Lord. You're either a Darth or you aren't.

... see, in the Rule of Two (and other sith that worked in a similar format), always two there are. The master, and the apprentice.

... why am I having to explain how the Sith master/apprentice system works to you? Why are you incredulous about Maul and Dooku being apprentices? A Rule of Two sith only stops being an apprentice when their master dies.



You might not need Sidious but... you think there's a long list?


I'm curious as to, say, five who can do it.

I'd list to see that list too. And how Banerific it is.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Why do I feel like Q receives undeserved rage many a time :mmm:

Anyways, gimme Plagueis.

This, 'cept Krayt.

Originally posted by Q99
... see, in the Rule of Two (and other sith that worked in a similar format), always two there are. The master, and the apprentice.

... why am I having to explain how the Sith master/apprentice system works to you? Why are you incredulous about Maul and Dooku being apprentices? A Rule of Two sith only stops being an apprentice when their master dies.

Right. That has shit to do with whether one is a Lord or not. It's an arbitrary ranking system to encourage competition and eventual usurpation.


To be blunt:

Luke
Yoda
Revan
Vader
Sidious(obviously)
Vitiate/Valkorion
Krayt
Similarly powerful beings, etc.

Having two people fight together, even if their combined power is greater than the person they're fighting, does not mean they will win, or even compete, because they don't actually combine powers. It's a stupid argument to make.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Why do I feel like Q receives undeserved rage many a time :mmm:
I can't think of one example where he ever insulted anymore.

He has enough to deal with with the worms in the Gen. Discussion Forum. That he's unerringly nice and polite just makes it worse.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Right. That has shit to do with whether one is a Lord or not. It's an arbitrary ranking system to encourage competition and eventual usurpation.

I'm not saying they're not Lords, just that of the top two slots, they're the apprentice Lords. The junior lords, the not-quite-top lords. Actual top lords in partnerships like Kun, Sadow, Revan, etc. tend to be stronger still.



Luke's not a Sith, Yoda's not a Sith... lesse, Revan not while he's a sith. At his non-sith best maybe, but even at his best I think there's a major danger, ditto Krayt and Vader, even if they won it'd be at major risk.... Sidious and Vitiate/Valkorion are 'definitely yes.'



They don't 'combine' power, but they do mean the opponent has to split attention, having to defend against more while being able to put less offense against each, and the duo can cover for each other. That helps a lot.

I mean, just look at the Sidious vs Savage/Maul fight. When it was solo, he casually took them apart, heck he took Maul apart without even looking, but when it was both, they weren't even on the ropes.


The moment things fell apart was the moment they got split up, before that they were at least able to defend themselves.

Or Talzin and Maul teaming up to take down Sidious (only for Dooku to even the odds).


Heck, why do you think so many Sith go, "Join with me, and together we'll beat my master"? Because they think with some help, they could do so where solo they couldn't. The usefulness of having another major sith lord at your side seems apparent to them.